https://x.com/jeffkhamilton/status/1816652790476996653?t=8QSukQ-fELvib42vJ_xRRw&s=19
100% bringing Bailey back. ELC+$20k. He'll have to take it. If he comes in and starts helping Zach turn it around then he could be a Winnipeg hero for life.
Pokey stays in, Bailey takes Johnson's or Clercius spot. Lucky can fight for one of those spots too. When Lawler is back, we pick the better of Lucky/Pokey.
Just the morale shift from bringing back a known winner, still-producing, and 2 time GC champ could shift the team into winning gear.
That said: I thought he may have been banged up last week in TOR and he was DNP? Of course he'd have to be healthy or he'd be useless.
Does TOR have cap woes? Or do they have a dire need at some other spot... Not like TOR has a lot of all-star Rs... they basically have no one.
Yes. If he wants to return bring him back.
If he's healthy bring him back. If not, bring him back when he is. He's part of the culture that won (I know that doesn't necessarily mean much, but it could be a shift that Zach needs).
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/toronto-argonauts-wr-rasheed-bailey-among-three-released-1.2153847
Quote from: Big Daddy on July 26, 2024, 12:58:17 PMIf he's healthy bring him back. If not, bring him back when he is. He's part of the culture that won (I know that doesn't necessarily mean much, but it could be a shift that Zach needs).
If he was hurt they would have had to put him on IR no? Maybe nicked or locker room issue. Like others said maybe cap space. Did not see this coming.
Bring him back
A few things about Bailey.
I didn't at all like his halftime interview a few weeks back on TSN. It was all about him, how everyone follows him and he's the leader. Leaders don't talk like that.
The Bombers left him unsigned for quite awhile the past couple off-seasons. I think with a very strong leadership group around him he can be productive and fit in (which we do have here) but there's a lot of attitude to go along with what he brings. How he would fit into a very young receiving group and a team that is probably going to be .500 (at best) the rest of the way is a wildcard.
I'd pass.
I don't understand why the Argos would release him. That said, I would discuss his possible return with his agent and / or him.
He filled a valuable role with the team.
I have no idea what Pinball is doing. Kelly is back on their AR, its not like they have any depth at WR (only 5 on the AR after Bailey is released), why dump Bailey.
I don't think he signed a huge contract, so its not $SMS. He was dinged, but if it was enough to IR him, they can't release him. Yes, he has attitude, I guess the question is whether it pushed over from inspirational to confrontational, who knows. The Argos don't have a lot of strong personalities on their roster.
We chose not to sign Sheed this year because we had so much tied up in Schoen and Lawler. That wasn't the case last year when we held off to the last minute to sign him. I don't profess to know what the good and bad are with signing him, but I do know he contributes on the field.
Rumours on twitter are that we have reached out to him, but nothing will happen until after the game.
I think, with our present situation, and the 6 game $SMS bucks we have available, its a no brainer.
Bailey should be on the Bombers booth / sidelines to give tips on what offensive plays Argos might call. ;D
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 09:05:05 AM100% bringing Bailey back. ELC+$20k. He'll have to take it. If he comes in and starts helping Zach turn it around then he could be a Winnipeg hero for life.
Pokey stays in, Bailey takes Johnson's or Clercius spot. Lucky can fight for one of those spots too. When Lawler is back, we pick the better of Lucky/Pokey.
Just the morale shift from bringing back a known winner, still-producing, and 2 time GC champ could shift the team into winning gear.
Suspect Kyle has nothing to offer Bailey beyond PR pay, which is also the reason Lucky continues to sit on the PR week after week earning peanuts. It's an insult to expect Bailey to play for less than $100k and don't think it will happen. Bombers are in a salary hell pickle, which is why they continue to play 3 rookie receivers even when Zach desperately needs immediate help. O'Shea can only respond with "crisis?, what crisis?"
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 26, 2024, 03:38:09 PMSuspect Kyle has nothing to offer Bailey beyond PR pay, which is also the reason Lucky continues to sit on the PR week after week earning peanuts. It's an insult to expect Bailey to play for less than $100k and don't expect it will happen. Bombers are in a salary hell pickle, which is why they continue to play 3 rookie receivers even when Zach desperately needs immediate help. O'Shea can only respond with "crisis?, what crisis?"
We have cap space. The 6 game IR has a lot of cap space on it, even with bonuses. Its all about whether he fits, and wants to come back after we snubbed him, a small snub before re-signing him last year, and not signing him this year.
If Sheed can forgive us, I can't see not signing him. He takes Schoen's place. But I can see him looking for a 2 year deal that is a good value for this year, but a big second year. That's what I would look for as his agent, to remove the re-signing issue next year. Can't guarantee any of it, he's not re-signing here, but at least the deal is in place and we'd have to release him to get out of it.
He may want to sign with a Cup contender...
Quote from: The Zipp on July 26, 2024, 05:13:11 PMHe may want to sign with a Cup contender...
After Toronto releases him, who else is willing to give him a shot for anything more than an ELC?
Is he better than any contender's 5th best WR? Seems to be pretty easy to find talent at receiver, but it's harder to actually implement new players into the offence in my opinion.
With how reliable he was at being the 3rd or 4th option, they should sign him. It fills a hole.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 26, 2024, 05:13:11 PMHe may want to sign with a Cup contender...
I bet he signs with BC or Montreal
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 26, 2024, 03:38:09 PMSuspect Kyle has nothing to offer Bailey beyond PR pay, which is also the reason Lucky continues to sit on the PR week after week earning peanuts. It's an insult to expect Bailey to play for less than $100k and don't think it will happen. Bombers are in a salary hell pickle, which is why they continue to play 3 rookie receivers even when Zach desperately needs immediate help. O'Shea can only respond with "crisis?, what crisis?"
I don't agree with this at all. There is no accounting for the cap until the end of the season. We have 7 starters on the 6 game IR. Any player signed is only getting paid for the remaining games on the schedule, so the 100k you want to offer Bailey is only 60k at this point.
Saying we can't afford to start anyone other than rookies is just a ridiculous take.
Wpg contacted his agent as per FP
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 26, 2024, 02:20:42 PMI don't understand why the Argos would release him.
I suspect they are clearing cap space to bring Kelly back.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 26, 2024, 03:38:09 PMQuote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 09:05:05 AMO'Shea can only respond with "crisis?, what crisis?"
He's quoting from a Supertramp album in the 70's!! :D ;) Did not know O'Shea was Supertramp fan!! ;)
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 26, 2024, 02:15:09 PMI didn't at all like his halftime interview a few weeks back on TSN. It was all about him, how everyone follows him and he's the leader. Leaders don't talk like that.
I thought it was ok. He was selling his brand. Also, he clearly has been reading his press (and forum!) coverage which always highlights his passion. So now he's saying "ok, ya, I'll buy into that, I'm the passion guy, the heart & soul" (my words). So he plays it up.
If the other guys don't believe he's a "leader" then, trust me, they'll laugh at him and take him down a notch.
Maybe there was a locker room blow-up in TOR after losing to bitter rivals HAM... maybe Sheed was on the wrong side of that. Maybe he doesn't FIFO there... but we know he FIFOs here!
Quote from: M.O.A.B. on July 26, 2024, 03:31:21 PMBailey should be on the Bombers booth / sidelines to give tips on what offensive plays Argos might call. ;D
Should have hired him mid-week to do this! Haha, they wouldn't get much from a couple of days of debriefing, but it would make TOR have to double-think the situation. Just have Bailey stand on the sidelines in civvies with binocs doing all sorts of pointing at players, etc. Might unnerve Dinwiddie, who gets riled up real easily!
TOR did it to us last year with the Agudosi "rental"! Gooses and ganders and all that...
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 11:13:09 PMI thought it was ok. He was selling his brand. Also, he clearly has been reading his press (and forum!) coverage which always highlights his passion. So now he's saying "ok, ya, I'll buy into that, I'm the passion guy, the heart & soul" (my words). So he plays it up.
If the other guys don't believe he's a "leader" then, trust me, they'll laugh at him and take him down a notch.
Maybe there was a locker room blow-up in TOR after losing to bitter rivals HAM... maybe Sheed was on the wrong side of that. Maybe he doesn't FIFO there... but we know he FIFOs here!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 11:13:09 PMI thought it was ok. He was selling his brand. Also, he clearly has been reading his press (and forum!) coverage which always highlights his passion. So now he's saying "ok, ya, I'll buy into that, I'm the passion guy, the heart & soul" (my words). So he plays it up.
If the other guys don't believe he's a "leader" then, trust me, they'll laugh at him and take him down a notch.
Maybe there was a locker room blow-up in TOR after losing to bitter rivals HAM... maybe Sheed was on the wrong side of that. Maybe he doesn't FIFO there... but we know he FIFOs here!
I suspect Sheed rubs many people the wrong way, he's a highly emotional person and he rarely stops talking, which could be annoying and draining for new teammates to put up with.
If Mgmt is in negotiations to bring him in...are they also going to offer him a no guarantee PR position like they did with Whitehead? MOS has reiterated multiple times he likes our young guys.
If so, what's Sheed's motivation to sign? I guess the only leverage from a business standpoint that the BB would have is that most receiving corps across the league are settled...and no one else will be offering him an Active Roster spot off the hop.
If he accepts an offer (PR or otherwise) and if Lawler is close to a return after the bye...I think they'll release Whitehead based on MOS' stated affinity for the young receivers...remember Sheed bumped Lucky from the starting lineup during Luckys first stint with us...largely due to his blocking ability and grit.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2024, 04:28:56 AMI suspect Sheed rubs many people the wrong way, he's a highly emotional person and he rarely stops talking, which could be annoying and draining for new teammates to put up with.
He sounds like me lol
Bailey is an excellent blocker and will help the running game as well as a player who can carry the ball a couple times a game. He is a great 3rd or 4th option for the Bomber offense. I see no down side to bringing back Bailey. If we add Lawler soon, the Bombers will have almost the same receiving core as last season with Wilson in Shoens spot.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2024, 04:28:56 AMI suspect Sheed rubs many people the wrong way, he's a highly emotional person and he rarely stops talking, which could be annoying and draining for new teammates to put up with.
Dinwiddie saying injuries forced their hand with the ratio and that everyone loved Bailey. Pretty sure MOS does too.
From Free Press:
"It's devastating, honestly," Argos quarterback Cameron Dukes
said. "He's a great guy to have in the locker room, great energy.
Everybody clinged to him really quickly; we all had his back, and he
had every one of our backs. It's devastating missing him."
The difference between Lucky and Shhed is that Lucky came to the team from the couch, and hasn't been in our system for many years. Sheed played last week, and was in our system last year, and all our personnel are the same as when he last played here.
Its not like Sheed has to get up to speed, he can come directly to the AR.
Surprised Pinball didn't try to trade him to us, he could have gotten a 3rd or 4th rounder, no doubt... or at least a neg lister.
Given the state of our offense, I don't understand why signing him is taking so long. Don't over think this, this is an absolute gift from the football gods.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 27, 2024, 03:05:54 PMThe difference between Lucky and Shhed is that Lucky came to the team from the couch, and hasn't been in our system for many years. Sheed played last week, and was in our system last year, and all our personnel are the same as when he last played here.
Its not like Sheed has to get up to speed, he can come directly to the AR.
Surprised Pinball didn't try to trade him to us, he could have gotten a 3rd or 4th rounder, no doubt... or at least a neg lister.
We'd have been stuck with the salary TO signed him for, that we couldn't match. He'll have to be more affordable to sign here.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 26, 2024, 03:43:30 PMWe have cap space. The 6 game IR has a lot of cap space on it, even with bonuses. Its all about whether he fits, and wants to come back after we snubbed him, a small snub before re-signing him last year, and not signing him this year.
If Sheed can forgive us, I can't see not signing him. He takes Schoen's place. But I can see him looking for a 2 year deal that is a good value for this year, but a big second year. That's what I would look for as his agent, to remove the re-signing issue next year. Can't guarantee any of it, he's not re-signing here, but at least the deal is in place and we'd have to release him to get out of it.
Offering Sheed a 2 year deal with a big second year is not going to happen unless Walters comes to his senses and frees himself of Lawler's contract somehow to free up more capital. The team decided years ago Sheed would always be a bit player, help out where he could when he could for whatever they could afford to pay but never essential to the mix. I think they miscalculated the value solid 3rd string receivers like Bailey and Woli play in this run heavy offence, there is plenty of grinder duty that the more elite receivers can't fulfill.
Quote from: Waffler on July 27, 2024, 03:13:15 PMWe'd have been stuck with the salary TO signed him for, that we couldn't match. He'll have to be more affordable to sign here.
Pretty sure his TO salary isn't as big as you may think, and as many have pointed out, there are other teams that need WR help, in better position for post season play (and substantiall extra pay) that can now vie for his services.
Trading for an Amer WR during the season is not a standard move. But in this case, I think it would have been a shrewd move, and he'd be on our AR this week. Which might be a reason Pinball didn't make the deal...
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 27, 2024, 03:18:17 PMOffering Sheed a 2 year deal with a big second year is not going to happen unless Walters comes to his senses and frees himself of Lawler's contract somehow. The team decided years ago Sheed would always be a bit player, help out where he could when he could for whatever they could afford to pay but never essential to the mix. I think they miscalculated the value solid 3rd string receivers like Bailey and Woli can add to this offence, there is plenty of grinder duty that the more elite receivers can not fulfill.
By "big" I didn't mean Lawler money, I meant decent money. $130k range, and it always has the team option to cut at any time. If he earns it, he gets paid.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 27, 2024, 03:20:50 PMPretty sure his TO salary isn't as big as you may think, and as many have pointed out, there are other teams that need WR help, in better position for post season play (and substantiall extra pay) that can now vie for his services.
Trading for an Amer WR during the season is not a standard move. But in this case, I think it would have been a shrewd move, and he'd be on our AR this week. Which might be a reason Pinball didn't make the deal...
By "big" I didn't mean Lawler money, I meant decent money. $130k range, and it always has the team option to cut at any time. If he earns it, he gets paid.
I don't know if $130K would be the amount of any deal. Even so that's $56K above an ELC, but this week is already game 8. So at best he might be signed and activated for game 9.
That deal would be about $3K more per game than an ELC players: 10 X $3K = $30K for the balance of the season.
Realistically I'd think a new contact would be closer to $110K max which would be a bump of $20K for the balance of the season against the SMS.
sign him....he adds intangibles to our locker room plus he blocks downfield and helps our running game not to mention he carries the ball on occasion keeping Ds off ballance...the team needs an injection of passion which Sheed can provide in spades
Guys, I hate to be a wet noodle, and when I heard Sheed had signed with the Argos I was crushed, but I really don't think he wants to be here. Remember, he chose to retire rather than stay with us. It kinda reminds me of what happened with AH, who also, remarkably, chose the Argos over us. Gawd I can't stand the Argos.
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2024, 03:07:29 PMGiven the state of our offense, I don't understand why signing him is taking so long. Don't over think this, this is an absolute gift from the football gods.
What if he simply doesn't want to be here?
And that may be the situation, he knows what his role would be and he isn't happy with that. BUT, his other option at this time is to retire. I m thinking the Riders will sign him just for spite!!
Pass he's pretty mediocre at best
Quote from: bluengold204 on July 27, 2024, 05:06:02 PMPass he's pretty mediocre at best
as was your comment....
Quote from: J5V on July 27, 2024, 04:31:05 PMGuys, I hate to be a wet noodle, and when I heard Sheed had signed with the Argos I was crushed, but I really don't think he wants to be here. Remember, he chose to retire rather than stay with us. It kinda reminds me of what happened with AH, who also, remarkably, chose the Argos over us. Gawd I can't stand the Argos.
The reason he didn't sign here was because we did not offer him a contract.
We had Schoen, Lawler, Demski, Wolitarski starting, all at substantially more than ELC. 5th receiver, from an $SMS viewpoint, needed to be an ELC. And SHeed had signed here last year for less than he could have gotten elsewhere, pretty sure the club wanted him to get his full value rather than the ELC they could afford to offer, so no offer.
With Schoen out for the season, and Lawler's 6 game IR savings, we are in a totally different position now, both from a need and a $SMS position. We can offer him $130k without issue.
He didn't retire rather than sign here, any thoughts of retirement were because he couldn't sign here.
But Pinball signed him, and then discarded him as trash.
A lot of money being thrown around here.
I'll be surprised if he gets anything close to that.
Maybe 100K, pro-rated.
You all know that every time we call for someone to be signed, OShea/Walters don't, ita almost like they do the opposite
I can almost guarantee we won't sign him unless we get further injuries to our receiving corps. MOS will stick with 'his guys' and not take one of the young prospects out of the lineup unless he's injured. I am surprised though that Bailey hasn't caught on with another team looking for a reliable reciever who can block, but then again, most teams are set right now and not in need of a #3 receiver—maybe Calgary will pick him up since Barnes is out. They need to send a message to that group of sad sacks that just going through the motions in a game is unacceptable. Man they were awful last night.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 27, 2024, 05:16:28 PMThe reason he didn't sign here was because we did not offer him a contract.
We had Schoen, Lawler, Demski, Wolitarski starting, all at substantially more than ELC. 5th receiver, from an $SMS viewpoint, needed to be an ELC. And SHeed had signed here last year for less than he could have gotten elsewhere, pretty sure the club wanted him to get his full value rather than the ELC they could afford to offer, so no offer.
With Schoen out for the season, and Lawler's 6 game IR savings, we are in a totally different position now, both from a need and a $SMS position. We can offer him $130k without issue.
He didn't retire rather than sign here, any thoughts of retirement were because he couldn't sign here.
But Pinball signed him, and then discarded him as trash.
4 veteran receivers likely to return next year, so the same situation applies to Sheed, they will likely run with younger cheaper options like Wilson and Clercius if the other 4 are healthy enough to play. If Woli was not a Natl. it could be him on the outside looking in.
Quote from: J5V on July 27, 2024, 04:31:05 PMGuys, I hate to be a wet noodle, and when I heard Sheed had signed with the Argos I was crushed, but I really don't think he wants to be here. Remember, he chose to retire rather than stay with us. It kinda reminds me of what happened with AH, who also, remarkably, chose the Argos over us. Gawd I can't stand the Argos.
We chose not to re-sign him, but our circumstances are very different now. He's a piece we could very much use right now.
Kyle Walters....get on the horn ASAP! NO time to waste as almost mid season. Calgary crashing and burning last night helps the Bombers cause. Remember 2019 when they broke the drought? 3rd place they were that year and MUCH tougher opponents on the playoff road in my estimation that year. Bombers sneak in and healthy they could make some noise in the West I still believe. They key is GETTING in and getting healthy and PLAYING BETTER....Don't like this ol' Jack Matheson BOZO syndrome they seem to be in this year. We need call in some help from up top from "Cactus" Jack Wells! :D
If I was Sheed...I would see what other teams besides the bombers have to offer
If I was sheed i d sign anywhere else but here!!
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 02:06:41 AMIf I was Sheed...I would see what other teams besides the bombers have to offer
I think he did in the off-season already...He wasn't exactly signed on the first day of FA...
The need to add Bailey may have become even more urgent after the injury to Woli. Its a short week so it makes sense to add someone who knows the offense.
Bailey's price just increased, especially if Woli is dinged.
I don't care. Sign him. Sign him now.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 28, 2024, 06:13:25 PMBailey's price just increased, especially if Woli is dinged.
I don't care. Sign him. Sign him now.
Bailey gets the minimum salary allowed for vets prorated for the final 10 games.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 28, 2024, 06:13:25 PMBailey's price just increased, especially if Woli is dinged.
I don't care. Sign him. Sign him now.
I disagree his value went up. I'd try to sign him, but Whitehead is still an option.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 28, 2024, 06:41:34 PMI disagree his value went up. I'd try to sign him, but Whitehead is still an option.
How so? Our need just increased. He has a better bargaining position with Walters today than the day he was released.
I don't care what it costs, we have $SMS from Schoen/Lawler 6 game, sign Sheed. He will make the team better.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 28, 2024, 07:26:33 PMHow so? Our need just increased. He has a better bargaining position with Walters today than the day he was released.
I don't care what it costs, we have $SMS from Schoen/Lawler 6 game, sign Sheed. He will make the team better.
Unless there's another team trying to sign him, he has zero bargaining power.
Quote from: Jesse on July 28, 2024, 07:37:23 PMUnless there's another team trying to sign him, he has zero bargaining power.
A bidding war can make it very costly, but there is an alternative for Sheed, and that is not signing yet with anyome, and wait for his value to go up.
The other bargaining chip we just lost is the idea of post season money. There is a chance we don't even get the minimum bump for a WSF appearance now. Whereas last year, he made the reduced salary he agreed to, but got significant playoff money.
If I was Bailey I d be calling Montreal or BC to see if there is any interest there. I m thinking that's hapoened already and there isn't. So then call the contenders, which he has and there's no interest. Now it's up to him if he wants to play for peanuts for the sake of playing, which I think he does, but then teams have got to factor in is he a want or need right now. In our lineup he's a need, but he's got recent history with management and I don't expect the phone to ring on our part, which is sad, as he'd make us immediately better and when Lawler comes back we d have 3 of our top 5 receivers from last year. BOO would have been nice to have around this year as right away he's in the lineup, but what the heck, nothing has went as planned this year personnel wise
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 08:43:57 PMIf I was Bailey I d be calling Montreal or BC to see if there is any interest there. I m thinking that's hapoened already and there isn't. So then call the contenders, which he has and there's no interest. Now it's up to him if he wants to play for peanuts for the sake of playing, which I think he does, but then teams have got to factor in is he a want or need right now. In our lineup he's a need, but he's got recent history with management and I don't expect the phone to ring on our part, which is sad, as he'd make us immediately better and when Lawler comes back we d have 3 of our top 5 receivers from last year. BOO would have been nice to have around this year as right away he's in the lineup, but what the heck, nothing has went as planned this year personnel wise
By BOO, do you mean Brandon Oleary-Orange? You think he's starting over Clercius? He's played one game in Ham and is now on the 6 game. He was never projected to start here unless there were a lot of injuries. Which is why he was not re-signed. Bailey would have been resigned this year before BOO. He was a very nice insurance policy, and played his role, but he was never a starter, especially with Woli and Demski. Clercius has a lot more upside.
I really hope that some of the players that played with Sheed these last years here reach out and help him come home.
Quote from: dd on July 28, 2024, 08:43:57 PMIf I was Bailey I d be calling Montreal or BC to see if there is any interest there. I m thinking that's hapoened already and there isn't. So then call the contenders, which he has and there's no interest. Now it's up to him if he wants to play for peanuts for the sake of playing, which I think he does, but then teams have got to factor in is he a want or need right now. In our lineup he's a need, but he's got recent history with management and I don't expect the phone to ring on our part, which is sad, as he'd make us immediately better and when Lawler comes back we d have 3 of our top 5 receivers from last year. BOO would have been nice to have around this year as right away he's in the lineup, but what the heck, nothing has went as planned this year personnel wise
BC might be getting Hatcher back as early as this week. Or if not this week, sooner than Bailey would be ready to be on an AR. He's also not as good as Hatcher and the Lions receivers are a very good group.
Noting that the Lions parted with Whitehead to save some SMS so they might be tighter to the SMS?
If Bailey returns to Winnipeg he'll already know the playbook in his sleep and he's in game condition. Heck he could play on Thursday if we signed him.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 28, 2024, 09:05:01 PMBy BOO, do you mean Brandon Oleary-Orange? You think he's starting over Clercius? He's played one game in Ham and is now on the 6 game. He was never projected to start here unless there were a lot of injuries. Which is why he was not re-signed. Bailey would have been resigned this year before BOO. He was a very nice insurance policy, and played his role, but he was never a starter, especially with Woli and Demski. Clercius has a lot more upside.
I really hope that some of the players that played with Sheed these last years here reach out and help him come home.
BOO was a good backup, that's about it. Clercius has already shown more imo.
Quote from: DM83 on July 28, 2024, 11:51:05 PM:D no, we will play Strev at slot. He will become one if the other receivers Collaros doesn't throw to.
If they don't sign a receiver I.e. Bailey, they would be idiots. Oh wait, ....lol!
DM I laughed at the "Strev at slot" comment!
I would amend the second part - if they don't sign a receiver ie Bailey, "for an sms friendly contract", they would be idiots.
Quote from: DM83 on July 29, 2024, 01:18:58 AMThis management team has been weird this year. Very little transparency. dismissive. o Shea comments to the media. The Mafias southern Ontario's arrogance of not saying or this year Walter's doing fack all is bizarre.
If they don't start winning on Thursday, there is no point to following the group. They were good for five years, we had those good years, and now it's going to be a 1963 Joe Zaletski, john Schneider, Luther Selbo year.
We are very likely not going to beat BC on a short week when they've got the bye. Probably our longest shot of the season.
We will hopefully make it out fairly unscathed injury wise and try a fresh start for the second half the season post bye.
I think a clunker of a season isn't the worst thing to happen to O'Shea and Walters though.
Quote from: Big Daddy on July 29, 2024, 01:03:51 AMDM I laughed at the "Strev at slot" comment!
I would amend the second part - if they don't sign a receiver ie Bailey, "for an sms friendly contract", they would be idiots.
He's been forced to play at slot in two games for us this season.
It's not even a joke.
Quote from: Jesse on July 29, 2024, 02:39:15 AMHe's been forced to play at slot in two games for us this season.
It's not even a joke.
Honestly I didn't even realize Strev played slot last nite, I was a bit distracted by family stuff on vacation.
That really is nuts. One time as an anomaly is a strange occurrence. Not learning from that and having to put a QB in as a receiver for a second game in half a season - sure doesn't look good.
If he can block, bring him back. Our oline needs all the help they can get ! :D
Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 27, 2024, 01:11:33 PMIf Mgmt is in negotiations to bring him in...are they also going to offer him a no guarantee PR position like they did with Whitehead? MOS has reiterated multiple times he likes our young guys.
Yes, and Sheed would relish the thought of earning his way back on the AR. That's who Sheed is. And he'd succeed.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 27, 2024, 03:05:54 PMSurprised Pinball didn't try to trade him to us, he could have gotten a 3rd or 4th rounder, no doubt... or at least a neg lister.
I bet he did! I bet KW outsmarted Pinball, knowing that he had to dump him anyway. Just wait and then pick him up for free, no DP, and reduced near-ELC salary! We may have "gifted" AH to Pinball in '22... well Pinball just returned the favor.
Quote from: dd on July 27, 2024, 06:04:14 PMI can almost guarantee we won't sign him unless we get further injuries to our receiving corps. MOS will stick with 'his guys' and not take one of the young prospects out of the lineup unless he's injured.
Nope... everyone can close their eyes and imagine our games vs SSK and TOR if we had Bruiser Bailey in instead of Josh "Jinkers!" Johnson. 'Nuff said.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 28, 2024, 02:06:41 AMIf I was Sheed...I would see what other teams besides the bombers have to offer
Who's desperately injured at R and has 4 of 5 desired starters on 6GIR? Ya, no one. Just us! Yippee!
Not to mention, if you have a ton of options, you're not looking at Sheed. He's good in WPG because he's good in WPG. This is where he belongs. Plus
we have no other options... so bring him back!
Quote from: DM83 on July 28, 2024, 11:51:05 PM:D no, we will play Strev at slot. He will become one if the other receivers Collaros doesn't throw to.
I totally forgot about Case in the TOR game and thought for sure we had to roll the rest of the game with Strev at SB! Luckily we did have Case. And luckily we had mega ratio flexibility.
Quote from: PloenFan on July 29, 2024, 04:17:29 AMIf he can block, bring him back. Our oline needs all the help they can get ! :D
This is more prescient than it seems at first glance. We have both FBs out, and possibly Neuf out. Bailey can easily act as FB/TE for us, or an often-sliding-inside end receiver.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2024, 09:48:31 AMThis is more prescient than it seems at first glance. We have both FBs out, and possibly Neuf out. Bailey can easily act as FB/TE for us, or an often-sliding-inside end receiver.
Not a bad idea, if no team wants to invest in Strev. as a QB, Bombers can keep him around as a FB/TE/inside Bailey type receiver, pay him $100k and get a few years service out of him.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 29, 2024, 09:46:58 AMI totally forgot about Case in the TOR game and thought for sure we had to roll the rest of the game with Strev at SB! Luckily we did have Case. And luckily we had mega ratio flexibility.
We're lucky we dressed one back up receiver?
I guess it was a bit of an issue but it really wasn't some big coaching catastrophe. Here's how many WR/SB/Returners each team dressed this week:
Winnipeg dressed 6
Toronto dressed 7
Calgary dressed 7
Edmonton dressed 7
Montreal dressed 7
Saskatchewan dressed 7
Hamilton dressed 7
Ottawa dressed 8
Our top two receivers are out and the calculation likely was that no one on the PR was ready yet. The decision wasn't terrible. We got great value from our defense and Zach had a good game passing the ball.
Be sure nice to see this happen before the b2b w/BC...
Bailey signed- added to AR.
Lucky added to AR.
Johnson & McGhee to PR.
Quote from: Nic16 on July 29, 2024, 05:45:46 PMBe sure nice to see this happen before the b2b w/BC...
Bailey signed- added to AR.
Lucky added to AR.
Johnson & McGhee to PR.
Bailey is the 1 free agent that could potentially step in and play this week. He's in game shape and knows the play book already.
This situation is so painful...
Bailey is a heart and soul guy, great blocker and possession receiver.
Lucky earned the start by agreeing to the PR before Bailey was cut.
Woli, Lawler and Schoen on the 6 game next amn up has been tested.
Wilson, keeper. Probably replaces Lawler next year and going forward.
Clercius, replaces Woli nicely. Mr. Perfect, 14 for 14. Blocks and does teams.
Lucky in for Schoen, fills the need for a deep guy, but also has vesatility. He silenced all the questions if he still has anything in the tank last night.
Bailey's spot from last year was supposed to be filled with one of Wilson, Clercius or Johnson. The first two covering injuries, and Johnson hasn't really shone, even though Collaros seems to be wanting to make it happen.
With the injuries, it would make huge sense to bring Bailey back into the fold. More than enough $SMS with the 6 game savings, so that's not the issue.
It comes down to, is he better than Johnson (YES), and what happens when Lawler / Woli come back.
When Woli comes back, Clercius returns to backup on teh AR, and we drop a LB.
Lawler becomes the key. His timeline is the lynchpin.
When he comes back, who sits / goes to backup if Bailey is in the lineup over Johnson? Do you move Lucky to KR/PR and case to the PR? Keeping Lucky as a backup and package player? If you can do that, put Case and Johnson on the PR, then Bailey is a no brainer to be re-signed here.
Bailey's heart is missed, his hands and blocking too. There isn't a better 4-5 option in the league, IMHO. He's not going to be your #1 WR (he was #2 in Tor), but as a depth guy that can block, you can't find better.
I like Case and Johnson, but I don't love them. Some seasoning on the PR for the rest of the year won't hurt them.
Bring Sheed home.
Face it, Bailey is not coming back, the Bombers have moved on, we should too
Quote from: dd on August 02, 2024, 06:58:08 PMFace it, Bailey is not coming back, the Bombers have moved on, we should too
Have they?
I think Lucky got a chance this week over Sheed because he was up to speed on the playbook. We have a bye, where Sheed could catch up. Johnson wasn't anything to write home about, and Case hasn't broken anything, or even threatened to. So, it woulndn't be a bad idea to bring in Sheed...
Quote from: theaardvark on August 02, 2024, 10:01:06 PMHave they?
I think Lucky got a chance this week over Sheed because he was up to speed on the playbook. We have a bye, where Sheed could catch up. Johnson wasn't anything to write home about, and Case hasn't broken anything, or even threatened to. So, it woulndn't be a bad idea to bring in Sheed...
Lucky got a chance to play over Bailey because he's on the team. I didn't think that needed to be pointed out but I guess it did.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 02, 2024, 10:01:06 PMHave they?
I think Lucky got a chance this week over Sheed because he was up to speed on the playbook. We have a bye, where Sheed could catch up. Johnson wasn't anything to write home about, and Case hasn't broken anything, or even threatened to. So, it woulndn't be a bad idea to bring in Sheed...
They have, move on
Agree that Lucky is the guy going forward. He is threat at receiver and at kick returner. He fit in immediately and was part of a great win against BC. Hard to believe that Rasheed would be able, right now, to supplant him.
Quote from: DM83 on August 03, 2024, 03:56:57 AMWith a great game by Lucky he almost provides a deep threat. Also Wilson with a century best catch can go deep. solo could be in his last legs, but easily a great sixth man. At least we have some options. Looks like Neuf could be beaten out. Of course he still stay on the roster once healed. Finally, we get some well earned good fortune. Our boys came to play
Who the hell is solo?
Quote from: ModAdmin on August 03, 2024, 06:19:43 AMAgree that Lucky is the guy going forward. He is threat at receiver and at kick returner. He fit in immediately and was part of a great win against BC. Hard to believe that Rasheed would be able, right now, to supplant him.
But can Sheed supplant Johnson or Case?
What would happen if one receiver gets hurt?
Quote from: theaardvark on August 04, 2024, 07:52:54 PMBut can Sheed supplant Johnson or Case?
What would happen if one receiver gets hurt?
He can't "supplant" anyone if he isn't on the team.
If a receiver gets hurt then we have players on the practice roster.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 04, 2024, 08:15:05 PMHe can't "supplant" anyone if he isn't on the team.
If a receiver gets hurt then we have players on the practice roster.
PR not especially flush with WR right now...
81 Alston, Ravi WR A 6'3 209 25 Montana State
0 Mitchell, Myron WR A 6'1 180 26 Alabama-Birmingham
87 Murphy, Jeremy WR N 6'1 191 25 Concordia
Bailey is affordable, and a far better option than any of these, and better than Johnson or Case right now.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 04, 2024, 08:18:22 PMPR not especially flush with WR right now...
81 Alston, Ravi WR A 6'3 209 25 Montana State
0 Mitchell, Myron WR A 6'1 180 26 Alabama-Birmingham
87 Murphy, Jeremy WR N 6'1 191 25 Concordia
Bailey is affordable, and a far better option than any of these, and better than Johnson or Case right now.
"We like the players we have" - O'Shea
Additionally, you have no idea if Bailey is affordable. He is certainly more expensive than any of those guys.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 04, 2024, 08:18:22 PMPR not especially flush with WR right now...
81 Alston, Ravi WR A 6'3 209 25 Montana State
0 Mitchell, Myron WR A 6'1 180 26 Alabama-Birmingham
87 Murphy, Jeremy WR N 6'1 191 25 Concordia
Bailey is affordable, and a far better option than any of these, and better than Johnson or Case right now.
I don't think Bailey would accept a PR position and the pay that comes with it, nor should he, good chance he'll catch on elsewhere to compensate for injuries.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 04, 2024, 09:59:14 PMI don't think Bailey would accept a PR position and the pay that comes with it, nor should he, good chance he'll catch on elsewhere to compensate for injuries.
Whitehead and Grymes did. Bailey does know the playbook which is an advantage but their are already lots of receivers hitting the IR lists and nobody has called him as far as we know.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 04, 2024, 09:59:14 PMI don't think Bailey would accept a PR position and the pay that comes with it, nor should he, good chance he'll catch on elsewhere to compensate for injuries.
Bailey at $130k would be a very good deal, for both. That's going to be $65k prorated. Peanuts to have a solid starting WR who can block and covert 2nd downs.
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 04, 2024, 10:27:03 PMWhitehead and Grymes did. Bailey does know the playbook which is an advantage but their are already lots of receivers hitting the IR lists and nobody has called him as far as we know.
Lucky had no offers, and realized that he had a great chance to parlay PR into a contract due to all our injuries.
How Grymes ended up here, I'll never know. IF he gets off the PR, its a great opportunity for both player and team.
The team probably also thinks about next season in deciding what to do.
Ie, new Young guys showing promise might be kept for their potential, not what they can do right now.
Four straight grey cup appearances, thirty thousand at the last game , they do not have any serious pressure to win right now.
This is good for longer term team success. Seems smart to me.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 05, 2024, 03:59:04 PMBailey at $130k would be a very good deal, for both. That's going to be $65k prorated. Peanuts to have a solid starting WR who can block and covert 2nd downs.
Lucky had no offers, and realized that he had a great chance to parlay PR into a contract due to all our injuries.
How Grymes ended up here, I'll never know. IF he gets off the PR, its a great opportunity for both player and team.
Bailey has no offers that we know about either.
Quote from: markf on August 05, 2024, 04:33:53 PMThe team probably also thinks about next season in deciding what to do.
Ie, new Young guys showing promise might be kept for their potential, not what they can do right now.
Four straight grey cup appearances, thirty thousand at the last game , they do not have any serious pressure to win right now.
This is good for longer term team success. Seems smart to me.
I like your thinking here and I'm sure you're right, Bomber management must be thrilled with some of the talent and ability they discovered in many of these young players. The future is indeed looking bright.
Regardless of the rough start to the season, I think there is a sense of unfinished business with the last two Grey Cup losses this team has suffered. That sting is still there in many of our vets and certainly in the coaches and management. I think you're going to see a very determined Bomber team in the second half of the season and it wouldn't surprise me to see them not only make the playoffs but play in the Grey Cup.
Quote from: ModAdmin on August 03, 2024, 06:19:43 AMAgree that Lucky is the guy going forward. He is threat at receiver and at kick returner. He fit in immediately and was part of a great win against BC. Hard to believe that Rasheed would be able, right now, to supplant him.
Honestly, I'm not sure I believe this. It took an injury to Lucky on the roster and they rotated him with Case all night.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lucky came off for Lawler.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 05, 2024, 03:59:04 PMBailey at $130k would be a very good deal, for both.
We are not going to offer Bailey that. He would already he signed up if we offered him any deal.
I was surprised that we couldn't get a deal done with Lawler when he signed with Edmonton. We brought him back the following season. I was surprised that we couldn't get a deal done with Bailey when he signed with Toronto. Maybe we bring him back the following season too.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 04, 2024, 08:33:10 PM"We like the players we have" - O'Shea
Additionally, you have no idea if Bailey is affordable. He is certainly more expensive than any of those guys.
Yes, we know that O'Shea will always "like the players we have". But we picked up Lucky in spite of having those players. Bailey got a contract this spring. Lucky did not.
He is within the budget we should have for receivers considering the 6 game IR savings we have had. His total salary would likely be less than what we will get back from Schoen's IR $SMS recapture, guessing Lucky's contract would be more affordable, probably what we will save from Lawler's IR time. Certainly the prorated contracts for both would be less than Schoen, Lawler and Wolitarski's 6game $SMS savings.
I get the choice to not sign him and save that $SMS, but man, he is an insurance policy beyond compare.
I'm just saying I'd rather have Bailey and not need him, than need him and not have him, should something happen.
Quote from: J5V on August 05, 2024, 06:18:15 PMI was surprised that we couldn't get a deal done with Lawler when he signed with Edmonton. We brought him back the following season. I was surprised that we couldn't get a deal done with Bailey when he signed with Toronto. Maybe we bring him back the following season too.
In the offseason, we signed Schoen and Oliviera, completely blowing our vet budget (with Lawler and Collaros already signed). No one, player, fan, coach or GM would have prioritized Bailey over either of those two, no disrespect to Bailey. Had either not signed here, Bailey would have been on the opening day roster here, and not Toronto.
Being a proven vet, Bringing him in as #5 on Collaro's checkdown and paying him proven vet $, (more than an ELC) would not have made sense. Lawler, Schoen, Demski and Wolitarski were our starters and we were planning on a recruit being #5. Now we are missing Lawler, Schoen and Wolitarski, so the scenario is far, far, far different today.
Wilson has stepped in for Schoen, Clercius for Wolitarski, and Lawler will be back soon we hope. Lucky takes over the 5th "recruit receiver" with Wilson becoming a legit starter. Would I rather have Bailey in the starting group over Clercius? And have the versatility in case Lucky gets injured, or Lawler gets re-injured, or God forbid, we lose another receiver? For a prorated price having saved huge $SMS with the 6 game stints, I think its a no brainer.
Unless he wants to be guaranteed playing time, and is worried that when our roster gets healthy he will be relegated to back up, I can't see why we wouldn't ensure our depth, especially being back in the hunt.
Quote from: markf on August 05, 2024, 04:33:53 PMThe team probably also thinks about next season in deciding what to do.
Ie, new Young guys showing promise might be kept for their potential, not what they can do right now.
Four straight grey cup appearances, thirty thousand at the last game , they do not have any serious pressure to win right now.
This is good for longer term team success. Seems smart to me.
I agree with your viewpoint, Walters is compromising the current lineup a little in order to ensure next season's roster is better prepared, younger and cheaper, something he perhaps neglected to do enough of in the past.
I'm all for shopping Lawler before the trade deadline to correct the receiver budget in order to retain other critical veterans that might walk away in F.A. First two that come to mind are Ford and Holm, they're both going to be looking for Demerio Houston sized numbers and Walters can't afford to chintz out and lose them.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 05, 2024, 09:17:28 PMI agree with your viewpoint, Walter is compromising the current lineup a little in order to ensure next season's roster is better prepared, younger and cheaper, something he perhaps neglected to do enough of in the past.
I'm all for shopping Lawler before the trade deadline to correct the receiver budget in order to retain other critical veterans that might walk away in F.A. First two that come to mind are Ford and Holm, they're both going to be looking for Demerio Houston sized numbers and Walters can't afford to chintz out and lose them.
Lawler is in year 2 of a 2 year deal, so no need to move him to free up money for next year, and he will be useful for the playoff run.
I think the $$$ will balance back to the D next year...
I think the reality is that, aside from whether he's an easy personality to fit into the locker room or not, he's really a fourth or fifth option. If we are going to spend SMS dollars to upgrade a spot, is that really where we want to allocate them?
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 06, 2024, 05:07:07 PMI think the reality is that, aside from whether he's an easy personality to fit into the locker room or not, he's really a fourth or fifth option. If we are going to spend SMS dollars to upgrade a spot, is that really where we want to allocate them?
Aside from Bailey specifically, you gotta take upgrades where/when they become available.
You don't really get to choose which positions other teams cut.
Quote from: Jesse on August 06, 2024, 05:09:18 PMAside from Bailey specifically, you gotta take upgrades where/when they become available.
You don't really get to choose which positions other teams cut.
But you DO choose whether or not the upgrade is worth it (which is what we've done with Bailey). We're not going to win more games with a slightly better 4th or 5th receiving option.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 06, 2024, 05:13:26 PMBut you DO choose whether or not the upgrade is worth it (which is what we've done with Bailey). We're not going to win more games with a slightly better 4th or 5th receiving option.
At this point, with Lucky maybe on the roster and Lawler coming back, I'm fine with not bringing him back.
But it was absolutely worth it, imo. I would have had Johnson off the roster and Clercius in a rotational role in an instant. There was zero downside. And we've mentioned how Zachs been struggling just getting all the receivers lined up because there are just too many new bodies.
Quote from: DM83 on August 06, 2024, 04:42:29 PMWell, if what Dinwiddie says is true, why wouldn't they find a way to sign him? I am a huge fan of Bailey. I have no idea if he ******* when he's in the lockerroom. I would think being the fifth receiver would equate to shutting up, and doing his job, excelling as a blocking receiver, and the fourth option.
He's definitely way better as a fourth receiver, and in theory being covered by the worst DB cover guy or a LB. He beats them all hands down! I am dreading reading the forum to find out somebody else has picked him up. If he and Lawlor would be in the lineup we would have the best receiving core in the league.
I don't think it's completely fair to categorize Bailey as a 4th or 5th best receiver when he fills a specific role that no other receiver on the team or in the entire league can do better than he does, maybe in time Clercius can fill his shoes but he's nowhere close right now.
He's a physically tough receiver that plays with the ferociousness of a LB, Lawler, Schoen, Lucky or Gino Lewis wouldn't do well in his role. He's also the best player they've ever used running those jet sweeps which have been sorely lacking this season.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 06, 2024, 05:07:07 PMI think the reality is that, aside from whether he's an easy personality to fit into the locker room or not, he's really a fourth or fifth option. If we are going to spend SMS dollars to upgrade a spot, is that really where we want to allocate them?
We did not have the $SMS before the season started, which is a primary reason we did not sign Bailey.
We have a lot of $SMS saving from our rec corps being on the 6 game.
Today is different than preseason.
Our needs are different, our budget is different.
Demski said that he's talked to Bailey, and he has some things to figure out.
Whether that includes signing with a team that did no want to resign him in 2023 but eventually did when he dropped his price, and then passed on him in 2024 choosing to give Schoen a contract he deserved while still paying Lawler a big contract along with a premium price for Demski, or just a question of is the CFL still for him, of does the UFL become a possibility (signing with the Bombers takes the UFL out of the picture for next year).
I haven't heard a single Bomber say they don't want him as a team mate, and you'll never hear O'Shea say ANYTHING other than "I like the guys we have", so that's not anything you can read into anything.
I hope he comes back, and tears it up, and as another poster commented, score the winning points against the Argos in the GC (after Lucky scores the winning points against BC in the WDF).
Quote from: theaardvark on August 06, 2024, 06:55:18 PMWe did not have the $SMS before the season started, which is a primary reason we did not sign Bailey.
We have a lot of $SMS saving from our rec corps being on the 6 game.
Today is different than preseason.
Our needs are different, our budget is different.
Demski said that he's talked to Bailey, and he has some things to figure out.
Whether that includes signing with a team that did no want to resign him in 2023 but eventually did when he dropped his price, and then passed on him in 2024 choosing to give Schoen a contract he deserved while still paying Lawler a big contract along with a premium price for Demski, or just a question of is the CFL still for him, of does the UFL become a possibility (signing with the Bombers takes the UFL out of the picture for next year).
I haven't heard a single Bomber say they don't want him as a team mate, and you'll never hear O'Shea say ANYTHING other than "I like the guys we have", so that's not anything you can read into anything.
I hope he comes back, and tears it up, and as another poster commented, score the winning points against the Argos in the GC (after Lucky scores the winning points against BC in the WDF).
Most of this is conjecture.
Who says we now have a lot of SMS room? You? Who says we didn't sign him because we couldn't afford him? You again?
We have more players on the 6-game than we expected which may or may not mean we have significant savings. All of those players have been replaced by someone else getting a cheque. How much bonus money is 'dead' at this point is anyone's guess.
We do know that teams that have more injuries very often run higher on their SMS at the end of the season. We even used injuries as our rationale for exceeding the cap slightly before.
"We acknowledge that we exceeded the CFL's Salary Management System cap," Miller said.
"We had an unprecedented number of injuries in 2022 and did not want to sacrifice putting a competitive football team on the field."https://globalnews.ca/news/9658843/bombers-fined-cfl-salary-cap-violation/
Yet again, if we wanted him when he became available I am sure we would have reached out to him. If he wanted to be here I'm sure he would have reached out to us. Since he's not here we can safely assume it's because neither of those scenarios worked out. Anything is possible down the line. Let's turn the page.
Cue Bob Seger and the clarinet intro!!!
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 06, 2024, 08:13:52 PMMost of this is conjecture.
Who says we now have a lot of SMS room? You? Who says we didn't sign him because we couldn't afford him? You again?
Answers:
1) Math. When league-top-paid Rs go on 6G and all of their replacements are basically ELC math says you have decent $wiggle$ room. BinBC often runs the numbers.
2) KW explicitly said that any unsigned FA vet would be welcomed back if they'd take ELC. You can go watch the video. He was hinting at Jeffcoat, Bailey, etc. I bet 100% we would have signed Bailey in FA if he came to them saying ELC as A-OK.
Yes, true, we also thought he was the most expendable out of the 5 starters. But that doesn't mean we didn't want him. It just meant we had financial incentive to kick the tires, and they clearly liked Wheatfall and Pokey.
Many players at the time spoke up saying they'd like to see Bailey back. While it wasn't a big deal to start the season, now it maybe is, and now we have that little extra $SMS$ his pro-rated 1/2 year signing would require.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 06, 2024, 06:18:00 PMI don't think it's completely fair to categorize Bailey as a 4th or 5th best receiver when he fills a specific role that no other receiver on the team or in the entire league can do better than he does, maybe in time Clercius can fill his shoes but he's nowhere close right now.
He's a physically tough receiver that plays with the ferociousness of a LB, Lawler, Schoen, Lucky or Gino Lewis wouldn't do well in his role. He's also the best player they've ever used running those jet sweeps which have been sorely lacking this season.
Bailey was a firm #4. But you are correct, he was more than that because he was a legit threat. Thinking back to '19 and '21 we really spread the ball around. Everyone was used every game.
Now we mostly focus on the stars, or whoever has the hot hand that night (like Pokey's 200Y night). We make it much easier for Ds. That said, we saw a bit of "spreading it around" last game, and I think it helped us win.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 06, 2024, 05:13:26 PMBut you DO choose whether or not the upgrade is worth it (which is what we've done with Bailey). We're not going to win more games with a slightly better 4th or 5th receiving option.
Yes we will. When you're on the bubble like we are, any little extra can push you over the edge to success. If Bailey gets 1 or 2 tough 2nd down conversions for us where Johnson/Clercius fail, that could mean the W instead of the L.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 07, 2024, 03:01:12 AMAnswers:
1) Math. When league-top-paid Rs go on 6G and all of their replacements are basically ELC math says you have decent $wiggle$ room. BinBC often runs the numbers.
2) KW explicitly said that any unsigned FA vet would be welcomed back if they'd take ELC. You can go watch the video. He was hinting at Jeffcoat, Bailey, etc. I bet 100% we would have signed Bailey in FA if he came to them saying ELC as A-OK.
Yes, true, we also thought he was the most expendable out of the 5 starters. But that doesn't mean we didn't want him. It just meant we had financial incentive to kick the tires, and they clearly liked Wheatfall and Pokey.
Many players at the time spoke up saying they'd like to see Bailey back. While it wasn't a big deal to start the season, now it maybe is, and now we have that little extra $SMS$ his pro-rated 1/2 year signing would require.
I searched for Bailey's podcast to see if there was an update of his status, but he hasn't done one since he did the farewell to Bomber fans before the season began.
Quote from: dd on August 06, 2024, 10:11:51 PMCue Bob Seger and the clarinet intro!!!
On a long and lonesome highway, east of Omaha....
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 06, 2024, 08:13:52 PMMost of this is conjecture.
Who says we now have a lot of SMS room? You? Who says we didn't sign him because we couldn't afford him? You again?
We have more players on the 6-game than we expected which may or may not mean we have significant savings. All of those players have been replaced by someone else getting a cheque. How much bonus money is 'dead' at this point is anyone's guess.
We do know that teams that have more injuries very often run higher on their SMS at the end of the season. We even used injuries as our rationale for exceeding the cap slightly before.
"We acknowledge that we exceeded the CFL's Salary Management System cap," Miller said. "We had an unprecedented number of injuries in 2022 and did not want to sacrifice putting a competitive football team on the field."
https://globalnews.ca/news/9658843/bombers-fined-cfl-salary-cap-violation/
Sure. we don't actual salary figures on nay player, so any assessment of $SMS is conjecture.
We have $SMS becasue we have high paid players completing 6 game IR stints, with the roster spots taken by ELC contracts.
When teams have a lot of 1 game IR players, $SMS is an issue. Because even if that player is an ELC, and his spot is taken by an ELC player, that roster spot is 2xELC. 1 game cheques count against $SMS
We have had almost no 1 game injuries. So there are very few time we have paid $SMS for a player to not play.
Last year, we went over because we had very few 6 game IR injuries compared to 1 game. This year is the opposite.
So sure, conjecture.
Last piece of conjecture is that we haven't tried to sign him. We know that Demski has said that he is dealing with some decisions, and we don't know what his situation is. Why is he hesitating? We have no idea. It was widely reported that he wanted to come back, and that we had no budget to pay him what he was worth, and Pinball did. And to Baileys credit, he embraced his new team wholeheartedly. Until they cut him loose.
Who knows where his mind is at.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 07, 2024, 03:22:41 AMBailey was a firm #4. But you are correct, he was more than that because he was a legit threat. Thinking back to '19 and '21 we really spread the ball around. Everyone was used every game.
Now we mostly focus on the stars, or whoever has the hot hand that night (like Pokey's 200Y night). We make it much easier for Ds. That said, we saw a bit of "spreading it around" last game, and I think it helped us win.
I really don't see why this isn't the case every game. Not sure who's responsible for locking in on certain receivers, Zach or Buck, but I don't like it for the reason you just stated -- makes it easy on the D.
Quote from: J5V on August 07, 2024, 10:25:55 AMI really don't see why this isn't the case every game. Not sure who's responsible for locking in on certain receivers, Zach or Buck, but I don't like it for the reason you just stated -- makes it easy on the D.
When your top receivers are out the QB looks where he's comfortable.Those options are limited right now.
Rasheed Bailey signs with Ottawa.
https://3downnation.com/2024/08/29/ottawa-redblacks-sign-veteran-cfl-receiver-rasheed-bailey/
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 29, 2024, 03:44:18 PMRasheed Bailey signs with Ottawa.
https://3downnation.com/2024/08/29/ottawa-redblacks-sign-veteran-cfl-receiver-rasheed-bailey/
I think Bailey agreed to a PR position with the RedBlacks, so his salary demands can not be pointed to as an issue, he'll obviously take anything offered. He may have been signed to back up Justin Hardy, who is a very similar hard-nosed receiver.
It seems like O'Shea wants to give Clercius and Johnson a chance to show what they can do and doesn't want an older receiver with little upside. Perhaps one or both may develop into effective CFL players and that can only happen with them getting reps.
Quote from: bwiser on August 29, 2024, 04:28:41 PMIt seems like O'Shea wants to give Clercius and Johnson a chance to show what they can do and doesn't want an older receiver with little upside. Perhaps one or both may develop into effective CFL players and that can only happen with them getting reps.
Clercius is a Canadian so it's a different situation. Johnson doesn't necessarily have to be on the AR although it's useful. However import receivers often spend their 1st year on the PR.
He still has to be productive. It's not clear he's providing more than Clercius and if Woli is back this game he could get bumped to the PR.
I am definitely putting Woli in over Clercius but it was not a bad thing that Johnson and Clercius got some reps. You have to play to improve but at the same time as pointed out by a previous poster, you have to be productive.
Quote from: bwiser on August 29, 2024, 04:28:41 PMIt seems like O'Shea wants to give Clercius and Johnson a chance to show what they can do and doesn't want an older receiver with little upside. Perhaps one or both may develop into effective CFL players and that can only happen with them getting reps.
I dunno... Johnson smells like the next LDW to me. I hope I'm wrong! And if I'm right, I hope we don't waste 2 seasons on him...
(66! Not saying LDW was bad, just that he was a bad fit for the Lapo O at the time.)
IDK. Johnson might turn out to be a very good receiver. Not every CFL rookie receiver shines in year 1. On TV it's difficult to see exactly what he's doing well or not well. Reports suggest he's a good blocker.
The issue at the moment is whether he's our best option that has lost Schoen for the season, Lawler for many games and Woli for many games.
Football is a series of roster management decisions. When someone gets injured, who is next on the depth chart.
Time will tell if he is still with the team in 2025 and has progressed. Too early to write him off but I do question whether he's the best option now that Woli is back.
This is not directly a question of receiver only. We may choose to retain an addition DL over him this week now that Woli returns?
If we drop Adams to keep him then the team has a reason to do that I guess.
I don't think it's being so much in love with Josh Johnson as it is about being not so high on Rasheed Bailey.
The guy has played in 60 CFL games and has two games with more than 100 receiving yards and none since 2022 despite playing on a historically good offense for most of his career.
Johnson is younger and could develop and I think that's why he's playing. Why not take the chance and even if he doesnt make the jump he's not going to be that far off production wise.
Our receiving core would be great if it wasn't for injury.
We were supposed to be starting one rookie receiver with Clercius being a back-up.
Instead we've have 4 rookies taking turns starting. A guy like Johnson should have spent this year on the PR, became a depth player next year, and then maybe push for starting time. Instead we're nitpicking him for a position he should never have been in.
However, I definitely would have got Bailey if we could have and put him right in Johnson's spot. Let him actually practice while Bailey filled the gap while we still had TWO other rookie starters in Wilson and Clercius. I think things would have been (and continue to be) much more successful.
Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2024, 04:59:07 PMOur receiving core would be great if it wasn't for injury.
We were supposed to be starting one rookie receiver with Clercius being a back-up.
Instead we've have 4 rookies taking turns starting. A guy like Johnson should have spent this year on the PR, became a depth player next year, and then maybe push for starting time. Instead we're nitpicking him for a position he should never have been in.
However, I definitely would have got Bailey if we could have and put him right in Johnson's spot. Let him actually practice while Bailey filled the gap while we still had TWO other rookie starters in Wilson and Clercius. I think things would have been (and continue to be) much more successful.
I was all for bringing Bailey back until Lucky showed up and played well, couple weeks difference in timing and Bailey might have happened. Now I accept the Bombers have moved on and are investing time in a bunch of new receivers which will pay dividends in the future. With Woli coming back Clercius probably gets shuffled out of the lineup to maintain the ratio balance. Don't know if Johnson will stick long-term, but eventually I'd like to see them make use of one bigger target receiver in the mold of Justin MacInnis or Nik Lewis.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 30, 2024, 05:20:57 PMI was all for bringing Bailey back until Lucky showed up and played well, couple weeks difference in timing and Bailey might have happened. Now I accept the Bombers have moved on and are investing time in a bunch of new receivers which will pay dividends in the future. With Woli coming back Clercius probably gets shuffled out of the lineup to maintain the ratio balance. Don't know if Johnson will stick long-term, but eventually I'd like to see them make use of one bigger target receiver in the mold of Justin MacInnis or Nik Lewis.
It's fine, but even Lucky is taking a backseat to Johnson and it took and injury to get him in.
I would still have Johnson on the PR. I honestly think it's more fair to him and puts us in a better place to win games.
We are hearing over and over from player, coaches, and media that the issue with our offence (specifically the red zone) is due to missed assignments. Wrong routes, reads, depths. There have been simple solutions all year long but we've made it harder on ourselves than it needs to be and it has shown in our record.
Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2024, 11:35:51 PMThere have been simple solutions all year long but we've made it harder on ourselves than it needs to be and it has shown in our record.
Short term pain for long term gain?
Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2024, 11:35:51 PMWe are hearing over and over from player, coaches, and media that the issue with our offence (specifically the red zone) is due to missed assignments. Wrong routes, reads, depths. There have been simple solutions all year long but we've made it harder on ourselves than it needs to be and it has shown in our record.
And when Lucky got a chance to play he produced. As far as I could tell he seemed to fit in well, got open, caught the ball, and scored one of our rare this season touchdown passes.
Quote from: markf on August 31, 2024, 12:52:39 AMAnd when Lucky got a chance to play he produced. As far as I could tell he seemed to fit in well, got open, caught the ball, and scored one of our rare this season touchdown passes.
And Zach immediately pointed out that the TD was a result of Lucky responding to the defensive coverage outside of the play call. IE. A veteran savvy move that we've been missing.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 30, 2024, 04:26:16 PMThe guy has played in 60 CFL games and has two games with more than 100 receiving yards and none since 2022 despite playing on a historically good offense for most of his career.
Ya, so now do Woli... The #4 and #5 reads aren't supposed to produce 100Y games regularly. That's not the stat by which we measure their value.
Besides, even the top stars we had weren't having many 100Y games in '22 and '23 (compared to other teams) because we tended to spread the ball around and focus on the run.
Quote from: Jesse on August 30, 2024, 11:35:51 PMWe are hearing over and over from player, coaches, and media that the issue with our offence (specifically the red zone) is due to missed assignments. Wrong routes, reads, depths. There have been simple solutions all year long but we've made it harder on ourselves than it needs to be and it has shown in our record.
Watching our O live and on TV the problem with redzone production seems to be that every team is in our playbook. The Ds are blanketing our Rs and running their routes. They are usually in a better position than we are, and the target is double or triple covered.
And besides the odd token Brady run on 1st, we basically never try to run it in. No misdirection runs, no sweeps, no "passing down" runs, no draws. Nope, it's always corner fade or crossing jump ball. It's actually sad and pathetic and I'm getting worked up just sitting here thinking about it.
Think back to when AH33 was here, and when Lapo was here. We'd be running on at least 25% of downs in the redzone. Teams had no idea what we were going to do and we scored
effortlessly. Heck, even Matt Nichols was getting us bigly redzone production.
Come to think of it, it's a small miracle Kenny got that TD for us last game, and that might be only because it was worst-in-league HAM.
Sad. I'm gonna go alternate between crying and punching walls...
Quote from: J5V on August 31, 2024, 12:08:30 AMShort term pain for long term gain?
You don't roll into the post-season with short term pain... you put maximum effectiveness on the field, not "developing the next LDW".
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 31, 2024, 02:29:27 AMYou don't roll into the post-season with short term pain... you put maximum effectiveness on the field, not "developing the next LDW".
Really bizarre that you just pull out L'Damian Washington as a comparable.
No one is developing "the next" L'Damian Washington. That doesn't even make sense.
There are plenty of guys who have tools but don't work out. There are some that do. You don't know until you try - that's the entire point.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 31, 2024, 03:20:32 AMReally bizarre that you just pull out L'Damian Washington as a comparable.
Why not? He's one of the few recent rookies we've brought in and gave extensive game time to that didn't work out. It seems pretty clear to me that Johnson is not the next Schoen (who was a superstar out of the gate). So ya, LDW seems apt.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 31, 2024, 03:20:32 AMThere are plenty of guys who have tools but don't work out. There are some that do. You don't know until you try - that's the entire point.
And my entire point is we're running out of runway for him to "don't work out". You want to roll into the WSF with Johnson playing like he is now? Or do you bench him and put known-quantity Lucky (or even a late vet pickup) in?
Are you really comfortable, as of right now, with starting Johnson in the '24 GC?? I'm not sure we're speaking to the same question.
I'm fine with dev'ing him, like others have said he should have been on the PR. So as we hit the home stretch of the season, and especially the post season, I want to put him back on the dev shelf and start a real producer. I'd love to be wrong and Johnson gets 125Y in the WSF, but I ain't putting money on that!!
If Bailey would have taken a min contract,I think Walters, MOS and Buck would have felt like we were ripping him off. Now that he's on a PR, it does change everything from that aspect.
Pretty sure he helps us on the field and in the room. Does it put Johnson back a bit? Sure, but he's on a 2 year ELC, no? And yes, Lucky was a happy surprise, but not the same role as Sheed. And Clecius/Wolitarski are good Sheed type players, but can it hurt to have too many good players?
Glad that he caught on somewhere, and I'm sure Dru and Condell are chuffed to have another weapon.
Quote from: theaardvark on August 31, 2024, 04:03:00 PMIf Bailey would have taken a min contract,I think Walters, MOS and Buck would have felt like we were ripping him off. Now that he's on a PR, it does change everything from that aspect.
Pretty sure he helps us on the field and in the room. Does it put Johnson back a bit? Sure, but he's on a 2 year ELC, no? And yes, Lucky was a happy surprise, but not the same role as Sheed. And Clecius/Wolitarski are good Sheed type players, but can it hurt to have too many good players?
Glad that he caught on somewhere, and I'm sure Dru and Condell are chuffed to have another weapon.
The mental gymnastics are willlldddddd.
Yes, that's
toooootally why we didn't sign him. No one wanted to get "too good a deal".
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 31, 2024, 04:12:52 PMThe mental gymnastics are willlldddddd.
Yes, that's toooootally why we didn't sign him. No one wanted to get "too good a deal".
You know what I meant. And its been expressed before. Having a guy in the dressing room that you drastically underpaid because he wants to play for your team, but is not independently wealthy and could use a paycheck commensurate for his value is a possible point of contention.
Yes, we want to get players on "team friendly deals", and getting a culture/team discount is something that is a benefit of having a good team/culture.
Bailey signed here last year at a discount, and we got full value from him. Our cap situation would have meant offering him an insulting contract this year, as we had so many other options and had so much more invested above him, and the position he would fill here was far below his potential and ability.
Its one thing to sign a guy like Mack at an ELC and get far more out of him when he does great, and get "too good a deal". Its another to sign a proven vet for far less than than he's worth. And Bailey couldn't be signed for anywhere near his value, there just wasn't the cap space for the spot he'd take.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on August 31, 2024, 03:20:32 AMReally bizarre that you just pull out L'Damian Washington as a comparable.
No one is developing "the next" L'Damian Washington. That doesn't even make sense.
There are plenty of guys who have tools but don't work out. There are some that do. You don't know until you try - that's the entire point.
Like Agudosi more recently. I hope Johnson is more productive than it appears. He may still be a keeper but I would like to see him targeted a couple more times a game.
Getting Woli back will open up space for some other options but it may also take away looks towards Johnson or Lucky?
I do like that we are throwing outside to Oliveria more. That pulls in the LB's and takes them out of rushing the QB as often.
Bailey was never coming back here, he chose to sign elsewhere in the off season and the bombers moved on. Simple as that. No sense sitting the guys who chose to be here for one who chose not to and things didn't work out for him but now 'wants' to play here. Not buying that for a second. Good luck in Ottawa
Quote from: dd on August 31, 2024, 07:15:57 PMBailey was never coming back here, he chose to sign elsewhere in the off season and the bombers moved on. Simple as that. No sense sitting the guys who chose to be here for one who chose not to and things didn't work out for him but now 'wants' to play here. Not buying that for a second. Good luck in Ottawa
He didn't sign with anyone in the off-season, what evidence can you show it was his choice not to sign with Wpg?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 31, 2024, 08:29:33 PMHe didn't sign with anyone in the off-season, what evidence can you show it was his choice not to sign with Wpg?
Agree. Everything I've heard was that he wanted to stay in Winnipeg.
It was his choice to sign here, it was our choice not to sign him. Big difference. Walter's moved on and rightfully so
Quote from: dd on August 31, 2024, 10:17:39 PMIt was his choice to sign here, it was our choice not to sign him. Big difference. Walter's moved on and rightfully so
Evidence?
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 01, 2024, 04:15:40 PMEvidence?
...He was unemployed for a whole bunch of weeks before signing on the PR in Ottawa?