Hopefully the Als can lay a licking on those Riders. Evans needs to NOT turnover the ball. Punting is ok.
I guess I'll root for the ALs? Kind of my two most hated teams.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 25, 2024, 09:11:37 PMHopefully the Als can lay a licking on those Riders. Evans needs to NOT turnover the ball. Punting is ok.
I have zero faith in Evans doing anything vs Riders defense. I think they will eat him alive, and the defenese will outscore Montreal's offense. Patterson won't even have to take the field.
Un-friggin-believable how lucky the Riders can be at times with regards to not having to play against injured players. Can't wait for reality to set in over there.
I think MTL pulls it off. SSK isn't good on O. Evans has to just do nothing but hitch screens and handing the ball off all night to beat the SSK D. Remember, that's basically how MTL beat us in the GC. We never did stop that hitch screen.
If Evans starts throwing into zone, then they are in major trouble. Man coverage with no FS help he can go deep, it's 50/50 and a punt on 2nd down. MTL's receivers are very good. Ento and Dequoy will be hawking those noob-Patterson balls, and Noel will be messing with his head all night.
And remember, this is in MTL.
Everyone here should cheer for MTL because we need SSK to stop racking up the W's!
Milt gushing over the Riders. Somebody stop feeding him the green Kool-Aid.
Should be a good one
Hickson got jump
Might be a high score
Nice hold by Sask
Lucky no ducky
57 yarder hit the cross bar nice try
Let's see if this officiating crew calls a fair ball game unlike the last Rider game.
Fletcher best dual threat back in league
Great little contest so far. An Al TD here would be nice.
Great call by the ref. Way to go Evans. Turnover. Not even close.
Evans not very good.
Kaleb Evans doing what he does best....turn the ball over!!
If I'm Montreal I m calling Mason fines right now and bring8ng him in. If fajardo is gone for another 6 games they're in trouble
Hey Lalonde we can't friggin hear a word you are saying with those bloody hell horns blaring.
I keep hearing "HORSESHACK" instead of KORSAK the Sask punter! This will only make sense for any WELCOME BACK KOTTER tv show fans from the 70's! :) HEY MR KOTTEERRRRR! :D Where John Travolta sort of started his acting career as one of the "sweat hogs" before Saturday Night Fever and GREASE! :)
Hickson beast (TD)
Where has Frankie hickson been this year?? They're starting Oulette instead of this guy!?! Serious speed from the backfield. All Patterson has to do is hand the ball off to him chew up the clock and score, game over.
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 12:10:35 AMWhere has Frankie hickson been this year?? They're starting Oulette instead of this guy!?! Serious speed from the backfield. All Patterson has to do is hand the ball off to him chew up the clock and score, game over.
One carry so far (previous to this game), sure looks good, nice to have power and speed options
Quote from: ichabod_crane on July 26, 2024, 12:07:37 AMI keep hearing "HORSESHACK" instead of KORSAK the Sask punter! This will only make sense for any WELCOME BACK KOTTER tv show fans from the 70's! :) HEY MR KOTTEERRRRR! :D Where John Travolta sort of started his acting career as one of the "sweat hogs" before Saturday Night Fever and GREASE! :)
WHAT? ::) LOL
Wow big hit on Sask QB as he went out of bounds (ran into a guy)
Hey Shea do up your helmet mate!
Zac could take some lessons from Patterson on how to throw away a ball when you have no options.
Patterson seldom takes a sack when on the run.
Patterson's a bit of a Drama Queen, isn't he?
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 26, 2024, 12:18:28 AMWow big hit on Sask QB as he went out of bounds (ran into a guy)
That's what I thought too! He got levelled!! That should have been flagged. That hit was totally avoidable. There's no respect left in this game.
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 12:20:54 AMThat's what I thought too! He got levelled!! That should have been flagged. That hit was totally avoidable. There's no respect left in this game.
Dangerous contact
If that was Biggy that hit him you wpuld hear all of Rider Nation screaming all the way from mtrl
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 12:20:54 AMThat's what I thought too! He got levelled!! That should have been flagged. That hit was totally avoidable. There's no respect left in this game.
LOL
Evans isn't great, but he can play better than this. He's got to use his feet to get himself going and settle his nerves.
For sure. It's like he hit a brick wall.
Maas and DIckenson are unbelievable in their challenges..that was another ridiculas one
Nice Challenge Maas. You lose. What a stupid challenge. DUH! No challenges now
What a brutal challenge by Montreal. Zero contact was made on Pinter and he actually fell on the rider player and now no more challenges the rest of the game. Wow
Hickson shredding the Als D
Als D looks like they went and got loaded last night.
Nice deep ball out of bounds
Sask looks polished
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 26, 2024, 12:13:43 AMWHAT? ::) LOL
I think it's more the other TSN announcer it sounds like that to me certainly last weekend, not Rod Smith! ;)
Als need pts here bad
Evans a little jittery
Als receivers are brutal. Whole team looks unprepared.
Evans hasnt been successful in any start even with Ottawa
It's hard to believe these are both 5-1 teams.
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 12:40:51 AMEvans hasnt been successful in any start even with Ottawa
Ottawa was beyond terrible when Evans was there in all fairness but he indeed contributed to the RBs supreme suckyness.
Nice one Alford you fool.
His knees were down, why on earth didn't mace challenge that!?!
Evans is terrible.
Sask #1d
Als OL is Swiss cheese on top of it.
Quote from: J5V on July 26, 2024, 12:42:58 AMIt's hard to believe these are both 5-1 teams.
Both are exceptional with their #1 QBs
It feels like sask had seen something in mtrls kicking game, they\ve been coming after them all nite
Man are the Alouettes bad tonight. The big stink!!
Blocked FG WTH
Als are beyond terrible in all phases.
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 12:46:35 AMIt feels like sask had seen something in mtrls kicking game, they\ve been coming after them all nite
Ya, They have been close to blocking a couple of punts and just blocked the field goal
Sasks get a 7 game over
what a difference a young aggressive coach makes. riders look good
Sterns will be a star
Huge flag there
Those stupid Horns aren't work.
Smart take 3
I am not sure we can beat Sask
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 12:48:38 AMwhat a difference a young aggressive coach makes. riders look good
Mace looks super confident on the sidelines. Impressive first year HC. Riders are going to be tough this year, especially when Harris comes back.
Muamba roasted Evans at half time, man I thought I didn't like Evans!! He's right though, not sure why they aren't feeding fletcher the rock either run or swing passes, etc. Evans is a p*ss ooor passer. 3 points in a half ain't getting it done.
Maas was gushing about him in pre game, but I think he gets hooked in the 3rd quarter
Sooner or later the Riders are going to have to play a good, healthy team and face some adversity. They've been awfully lucky with their schedule to this point. I don't buy what the Riders are selling.
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 12:52:50 AMMace looks super confident on the sidelines. Impressive first year HC. Riders are going to be tough this year, especially when Harris comes back.
It is hard not to acknowledge the Riders might of found a winner here. All this a back up QB, no top WR, no top OL.
Bombers can beat these guys but there margin for error is slimmer for sure.
What is the panel smoking. They are all fumbling there words and lapping it up with Lapo. Well weed is legal now so....
Dang, where is Lapos fashion sense. That is one ugly suit!!
Quote from: dd on July 25, 2024, 10:50:55 PMI have zero faith in Evans doing anything vs Cryders defense. I think they will eat him alive, and the defenese will outscore Montreal's offense. Patterson won't even have to take the field.
Well, pretty much.
Quote from: J5V on July 26, 2024, 12:57:35 AMSooner or later the Riders are going to have to play a good, healthy team and face some adversity. They've been awfully lucky with their schedule to this point. I don't buy what the Riders are selling.
Does a good healthy team exist in the league this year?
Stupid penalty by riders,
Evans is where he belongs, on the bench
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 01:10:06 AMEvans is where he belongs, on the bench
The new kid with a hot start.
Well Davis is already much better than Evans. Not even close.
Quote from: Jesse on July 26, 2024, 01:07:24 AMDoes a good healthy team exist in the league this year?
It does seem to be a year for injuries but you'd have to think that in a 9 team league eventually a good team will get healthy again.
Got ourselves a ball game missed the TD >:(
Forget mason fines, Davis Alexander will do just fine. Why they started Evans over this kid is beyond me.
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 01:18:27 AMForget mason fines, Davis Alexander will do just fine. Why they started Evans over this kid is beyond me.
One drive
Experience matters
Not an Evans fan but let's not get carried away
Here come the refs to help the Riders.
Wow throws that one on a rope
What a terrible call. As soon as a team starts to build momentum against the Riders out comes the nylon.
There is no bias for refs for the Riders end of
Tin foil on sale?
Techno put some in the mail?
Bad challenge
No fumble there.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 26, 2024, 01:20:45 AMOne drive
Experience matters
Not an Evans fan but let's not get carried away
The guy has yet to throw an incompletion , momentum clearly on Als side. I think the kid will win this game for them
And what 'experience' does Evans bring? He's terrible, always has been always will be
14-14 passing and 2 TDs, ya, this kid is smoking!!
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 01:28:04 AMThe guy has yet to throw an incompletion , momentum clearly on Als side. I think the kid will win this game for them
And what 'experience' does Evans bring? He's terrible, always has been always will be
You are overstating the positive on Alexander based on a tiny sample size. The experience of Evans is why he started the game. Struggled so they went quickly to their #3. Not staying he doesn't look goo, just looking for some balance here. Two great drives, very impressive. Might have found their new backup. Need a year or two to know for sure. Not a huge fan of Evans. Yes Als took over the game. Nice to see.
and just like that a great first half is wasted
Sask emploding
So lucky (fumble)
Nice throw
Flag lol
why do they even have that rule? NO end?
Big 1st down, nice throw, these young QBs show promise, nice to see, great future for the CFL with some of our young guns
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 01:37:34 AMwhy do they even have that rule? NO end?
There must be seven players on the line of scrimmage — 5 lineman and 2 ends — at the snap of the ball. Failure to comply results in an illegal procedure — no end penalty. This penalty can also be caused by a player with an ineligible number taking an end position and not reporting to the referee prior to the play as found in Article 3 of Section 5 of the Scrimmage rule.
I googled it
Evans looks sad
Alexander looks pumped
Sask run game critical to victory
Mtl doesn't have run game going this half and could hurt em
Sask QB got smoked
Mtl D nice stand
2x bar on 50+ FG
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 26, 2024, 01:39:38 AMThere must be seven players on the line of scrimmage — 5 lineman and 2 ends — at the snap of the ball. Failure to comply results in an illegal procedure — no end penalty. This penalty can also be caused by a player with an ineligible number taking an end position and not reporting to the referee prior to the play as found in Article 3 of Section 5 of the Scrimmage rule.
I googled it
\the thing is the league needs to find ways to reduce flags, especially those that interupt the flow of the game. Officials are way to often taking the spotlight. this looks like a rule that really could be eliminated
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 01:45:51 AM\the thing is the league needs to find ways to reduce flags, especially those that interupt the flow of the game. Officials are way to often taking the spotlight. this looks like a rule that really could be eliminated
Nope, it's an important one
Never heard of Alexander 3rd year. Story starting to make sense. He is seasoned a bit.
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 01:45:51 AM\the thing is the league needs to find ways to reduce flags, especially those that interupt the flow of the game. Officials are way to often taking the spotlight. this looks like a rule that really could be eliminated
I'm sorry, players need to know the rules of the game. This is fundamental alignment. It shouldn't be an issue.
Alexander shows his inexperience there, got lucky
At least got that right
once again the mystery command center steps in... when a coach doesn't have a challenge...seems arbitrary
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 01:53:11 AMonce again the mystery command center steps in... when a coach doesn't have a challenge...seems arbitrary
Because fumble potential change of possession
Alexander scan scramble too
I like this kid!
Looks hurt, ah maybe ok
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 01:53:11 AMonce again the mystery command center steps in... when a coach doesn't have a challenge...seems arbitrary
Certainly could have used them last week, but where were they?
Nice effort to get 1st down
Quote from: Jesse on July 26, 2024, 01:51:11 AMI'm sorry, players need to know the rules of the game. This is fundamental alignment. It shouldn't be an issue.
Agreed. This doesn't happen this much in high school football!!
Stupid end zone
Sask D says hi Johnson such a beast
Quote from: Jesse on July 26, 2024, 01:51:11 AMI'm sorry, players need to know the rules of the game. This is fundamental alignment. It shouldn't be an issue.
Agreed. This doesn't happen this much in high school football!!
Is there an echo in here?
Huge sack
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 25, 2024, 11:59:51 PM57 yarder hit the cross bar nice try
Mace thought that Lauther was Castillo. Nope! SSK lucky it hit the bar so no return!
Quote from: J5V on July 26, 2024, 12:01:34 AMLet's see if this officiating crew calls a fair ball game unlike the last Rider game.
They will:
a) it's not in Mosaic
b) #22 isn't involved
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 02:08:00 AMThey will:
a) it's not in Mosaic
b) #22 isn't involved
Tin foil costco thickness
Alexander has the tools!
Dangerous play there
One last chance for sask
Bad punt but limited return
Johnson looks very good
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 26, 2024, 12:07:08 AMHey Lalonde we can't friggin hear a word you are saying with those bloody hell horns blaring.
They really need to have a big sign asking the fans to quit with the horns when the sideline reporter is talking. You actually can't hear the lady talk at all as the horns are on the exact same frequency as her voice. Surely the Frenchies don't want to look like douches drowning out any semblance of a telecast?
No wonder Lu quit working in MTL.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 02:08:00 AMThey will:
a) it's not in Mosaic
b) #22 isn't involved
It appears you are correct.
Big flag
I'd like to see that penalty replay.
Refs are lost lol spot ball
Clutch
Huge drop nice side arm
Mtl bringing the heat
I like how aggressive mtl is here
Game over
Great game! So mad I changed my pick, why didn't anyone tell me about Alexander lol
Emilus is lost.
Why is there no replay on the piston play?? Brutal coverage TSN
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 26, 2024, 02:24:27 AMEmilus is a loser
I knew the Riders weren't that good. Couldn't close the deal and wouldn't have closed the deal against us last week either if the refs hadn't helped them.
Montreal has the horses to successfully blitz...we have ponies...
I picked Montreal nah nah nah nah nah ;)
Quote from: The Zipp on July 26, 2024, 02:27:37 AMMontreal has the horses to successfully blitz...we have ponies...
Yes but they couldn't stop the run in the first half.
Quote from: J5V on July 26, 2024, 02:38:55 AMYes but they couldn't stop the run in the first half.
Exceptional adjustments by Mtl D
Cream of the crop
Thank you Montreal.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 26, 2024, 12:28:48 AMAls D looks like they went and got loaded last night.
(I'm only at halftime)
SSK OC is being very, very smart. They planned around the strengths of the MTL D. (Man I wish we'd do that! If we had done that, we'd have 1 more cup.)
SSK completely negates the mega-strong DBs and FS of MTL by basically not passing anything beyond 15Y.
It's now clear why Dequoy is so good at ball-hawking and always in the picture: he is basically forbidden from coming up in run support. He's always deep, always looking for the pass. He's the anti-Alexander37.
I'll see how they adjust in the 2nd H (and you guys have already seen!). I would think MTL will have to start playing way tighter to the line and leaving the deep threats more open.
hickson One hundred yards first half... montreal absolutely flat.
so sask stops running.
why do some of these cfl coaches try to be smartest?
just keep doing what is working till it stops working.
dont try to show everyone how much of a chess player you are.
credit to maas for the qb switch.
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 12:46:35 AMIt feels like sask had seen something in mtrls kicking game, they\ve been coming after them all nite
The failure of MTL ST to deal with the kick-rush is pathetic. You are right: every punt a guy is close. And the blocked FG... shades of '22 GC (flashbacks!).
Quote from: markf on July 26, 2024, 02:55:01 AMhickson One hundred yards first half... montreal absolutely flat.
so sask stops running.
why do some of these cfl coaches try to be smartest?
just keep doing what is working till it stops working.
dont try to show everyone how much of a chess player you are.
we have a bit of this on the Bombers. (Grey cup, red zone, put in prukop?)
Yeah I don't know why they went away from the run, that was a strategic failure for them . Several 2 and outs allowed Montreal get back into the game and win it, run the ball, chew up the clock, win TOP, win the game....it's not that hard!!
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 01:10:06 AMEvans is where he belongs, on the bench
I don't know... he worked with the #1 teams for over a week. The only thing I didn't like in H1 is his fumble and his strange ability to go backwards to take a sack instead of trying to go forwards to get some yards.
If Caleb stays out for the rest of the game and the new guy saves them, it may finally be the end of "potential #1 QB" opportunities for Caleb. He'll then have to be relegated to being a Prukop / Dom Davis -- SY only.
He did suck bad in OTT, so I'm not too surprised he's sucking here.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on July 26, 2024, 12:07:37 AMI keep hearing "HORSESHACK" instead of KORSAK the Sask punter! This will only make sense for any WELCOME BACK KOTTER tv show fans from the 70's! :) HEY MR KOTTEERRRRR! :D Where John Travolta sort of started his acting career as one of the "sweat hogs" before Saturday Night Fever and GREASE! :)
Yes, sadly Horshack passed away a few years ago.
Great game. 2 quality teams gutting it out right to the end. Home field was a factor. Sasks heavy sized d-line was redline intensity in the first half and covering a lot of territory. I think that caught up to them later on the game. Using a big guy like Lanier on special teams is a little questionable imo. Wore him out.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 03:01:29 AMI don't know... he worked with the #1 teams for over a week. The only thing I didn't like in H1 is his fumble and his strange ability to go backwards to take a sack instead of trying to go forwards to get some yards.
If Caleb stays out for the rest of the game and the new guy saves them, it may finally be the end of "potential #1 QB" opportunities for Caleb. He'll then have to be relegated to being a Prukop / Dom Davis -- SY only.
He did suck bad in OTT, so I'm not too surprised he's sucking here.
He's had good games here and there. But not enough of them.
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 26, 2024, 01:24:52 AMThere is no bias for refs for the Riders end of
Tin foil on sale?
Techno put some in the mail?
WHAT????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 01:53:11 AMonce again the mystery command center steps in... when a coach doesn't have a challenge...seems arbitrary
Interesting point. I assume you're referring to the 4th qtr Anderson fumble forward and then recovered by Montreal to give them 3rd and short. They are supposed to step in when there is an egregious incorrect judgement call by the on-field officials. The on-field officials called that an incomplete pass. It was clearly a fumble, not a pass. That's why the command center stepped in. To your point though, yes it is arbitrary. And it is also controversial.
What the on-field officials did do correctly on this play however, is to not blow the whistle and let the play play out as if it was a fumble.
It was a critical call and play in the game. I can imagine many roughrider fans are not at all happy with the way it went down.
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 01:37:34 AMwhy do they even have that rule? NO end?
Because otherwise you could have 2 extra guys on the waggle, causing an unfair advantage for the O. Heck, if there were no formation rules you could put 10 receivers all behind the LoS on the waggle with no OL (except a C to snap)!
Also, even without the waggle, the formation/end requirements are part of the history of football and have been there forever, in all leagues.
It's an obvious rule, always been that way, everyone knows it, and only Os making dumb brain toots will screw it up. That said, there have been a bunch of IPNE calls this season! Which is a bit odd. It really boils down coaching... this is a failure of coaching and discipline.
Quote from: J5V on July 26, 2024, 02:17:11 AMI'd like to see that penalty replay.
The IC to save the final SSK drive was the ol' R runs straight into a DB trying to undercut another route. We see that from time to time: I call it a "mugging" by a R, because the R is purposely looking to ram into a DB in order to draw the IC flag and save the series.
Marcus Sayles, when he was here, used to get hosed by those muggings all the time. I think it's an inherently unfair call as DBs should be entitled to "their ground". But oh well.
The ironic part is, if the QB throws to a R near the mugging (but not the mugger) then the D can challenge/argue that the mugging was a pick/rub! Funny how it the ball is nowhere near them, it's a IC on D, and if the ball goes near there it's a IB on O, and if the ball goes to the mugger, it's DPI on D! It's one of the most frustrating calls in football.
(Rogers and Rhymes were/are also quite good at mugging.)
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 26, 2024, 01:59:43 AMStupid end zone
The stupidest. Lamest carve-out (both rule and field boundary!) in football history. Can't they just lay out some extra turf on the track? Maybe one day MTL will get a "real" stadium, not some poncy U sports hand-me-down (and not some roof-structure-challenged behemoth either).
Quote from: markf on July 26, 2024, 02:55:01 AMhickson One hundred yards first half... montreal absolutely flat.
so sask stops running.
Ya, and for the final SSK drive, once they got across C field, MTL started lining up 7+ D on the LoS. They didn't always bring all 7, but often they did. Just a spread out line of D, with the DBs far back in man coverage.
If I'm SSK, on that drive, I'm having 2-3 hoggies make a gaping hole for an immediate handoff to Hickson. If the hoggies can get any sort of seal (which they should, they've been good most of the season), Hickson basically runs for 10-20 every snap. Noel was able to do that alignment because SSK just abandoned the run. There was still plenty of time and a Hickson run for 7-20 each time is better than a quick hot slant for 7 with a ton of incompletions!! Each run by Hickson would have a ~30% chance of going to the house as the Rs could turn into blockers, and Hickson was killing it in space.
You can't ask that new(ish) SSK QB to pass every down in that kind of pressure situation, with incessant pass rush and the OTs failing on every snap.
And to think... Noel Thorpe was couch-sitting for how many years before MTL picked him up off the scrap heap of has-beens?? The dude is out-Halling Hall. He's a genius.
Quote from: dd on July 26, 2024, 02:24:47 AMWhy is there no replay on the piston play?? Brutal coverage TSN
Nope, but I checked on the comp-PVR and Picton did go out on his own (no one around) and came back to the ball. He had his eyes on QB the whole time and had no idea where he was on field. Bad awareness may have cost SSK the game. Which is funny, because Picton has been there 5 years and should know better.
But I learned something today: IPart is normally loss-of-10, which is what I was expecting, but it does indeed have an option for team B to make it incomplete -- meaning it indeed is a 3rd down turnover. Not sure I've ever seen that. Cool! Clearly Mace needed a refresher too based on his look/face... ;D ;D
Quote from: Pete on July 26, 2024, 01:53:11 AMonce again the mystery command center steps in... when a coach doesn't have a challenge...seems arbitrary
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 26, 2024, 01:53:52 AMBecause fumble potential change of possession
"Potential change of possession" is not something EITS can auto-review, except in the last 3 mins. And this was not in the last 3 mins.
I believe command center may have screwed this up and it directly helped MTL go up by 4 (a TD's worth)... but see article 6a.I just checked Rule 10 - Replay - Section 2
Article 1 confuses me a bit: is it a preamble to the other Articles which specify exactly what is auto-reviewable and what is not?
I'll assume Article 1 does not mean "everything is reviewable" but instead outlines the general idea to which the subsequent articles apply. If I'm wrong then command can basically auto-review anything at all at any time as long as they see the issue without having to pause the game.
Article 2 - Automatic Review Triggers (Potential for game to be paused) is very limiting, and only applies to: scores, potential scores, and RULED fumbles (doesn't apply here).
Article 3 - Doesn't apply, it's just: spots, 20 clock, penalties. Cannot pause the game, so doesn't apply here (they paused the game).
Article 4 - Penalties only. Doesn't apply here.
Article 5 - Only applies to final 3 mins. (The fumble thing happened 4Q9:14.)
Strange, there are 2 Article 6's, I'll call them 6a and 6b.
Article 6a - Officials Assistance:
this one could apply. If "two officials have differing rulings on a play" they can ask for help. They enumerate specific situations, which do not including "fumble or forward pass", but they are listed as examples so a fumble could apply.
BUT, Valesi makes a call on the field we can all hear: incomplete pass. If there was 2-ref dispute, shouldn't there be no call on the field? Or are they allowed to differ in opinion
AND make a field call?
So this article may be what was used to allow this review, though I don't like how we have no idea this is indeed the case, and also that a "rogue" ref could be adamant he saw things differently and force Article 6a whenever he wants! This article allows for a delay equal to or less than the refs arguing on the field would cause! And that's about how long command took here, so the delay aspect is ok.
Article 6b - Integrity of the game step-in: can "correct an egregiously wrong judgment". This could also be indicated here, however this article explicitly says "immediate decision" and "the
game is not paused". So this article doesn't apply here, and if it does, command broke the rules because they paused the game.
Articles 7 & 8 don't apply.
I must be correct about Article 1, otherwise every other article is superfluous. So Article 6a is the only other option, unless command screwed up here. But article 6a requires 2 refs to be in disagreement and the ref group to ask for help. Did that happen? If so, why the call on the field?
To make this
more transparent for fans, I think that if 6a is invoked, and the refs make a call on the field, they say: "the ruling is X, but officials are in disagreement and have asked for command review". Or just
"the ruling is X but we have asked for command review".
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 06:58:29 AMNope, but I checked on the comp-PVR and Picton did go out on his own (no one around) and came back to the ball. He had his eyes on QB the whole time and had no idea where he was on field. Bad awareness may have cost SSK the game. Which is funny, because Picton has been there 5 years and should know better.
But I learned something today: IPart is normally loss-of-10, which is what I was expecting, but it does indeed have an option for team B to make it incomplete -- meaning it indeed is a 3rd down turnover. Not sure I've ever seen that. Cool! Clearly Mace needed a refresher too based on his look/face... ;D ;D
Last time it was applied was August 4, 2022. Rasheed Bailey was penalized for Illegal Participation on a 12 yard reception on a 1st and 15 play. Montreal chose to make it 2nd and 15 rather than 1st and 25.
Quote from: Horseman on July 26, 2024, 03:13:21 AMWHAT????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Just poking fun at some that think the refs are bias aka pro rider
Foil helps with the signals lol
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 07:25:05 AM"Potential change of possession" is not something EITS can auto-review, except in the last 3 mins. And this was not in the last 3 mins.
I believe command center may have screwed this up and it directly helped MTL go up by 4 (a TD's worth)... but see article 6a.
I just checked Rule 10 - Replay - Section 2
Article 1 confuses me a bit: is it a preamble to the other Articles which specify exactly what is auto-reviewable and what is not? I'll assume Article 1 does not mean "everything is reviewable" but instead outlines the general idea to which the subsequent articles apply. If I'm wrong then command can basically auto-review anything at all at any time as long as they see the issue without having to pause the game.
Article 2 - Automatic Review Triggers (Potential for game to be paused) is very limiting, and only applies to: scores, potential scores, and RULED fumbles (doesn't apply here).
Article 3 - Doesn't apply, it's just: spots, 20 clock, penalties. Cannot pause the game, so doesn't apply here (they paused the game).
Article 4 - Penalties only. Doesn't apply here.
Article 5 - Only applies to final 3 mins. (The fumble thing happened 4Q9:14.)
Strange, there are 2 Article 6's, I'll call them 6a and 6b.
Article 6a - Officials Assistance: this one could apply. If "two officials have differing rulings on a play" they can ask for help. They enumerate specific situations, which do not including "fumble or forward pass", but they are listed as examples so a fumble could apply.
BUT, Valesi makes a call on the field we can all hear: incomplete pass. If there was 2-ref dispute, shouldn't there be no call on the field? Or are they allowed to differ in opinion AND make a field call?
So this article may be what was used to allow this review, though I don't like how we have no idea this is indeed the case, and also that a "rogue" ref could be adamant he saw things differently and force Article 6a whenever he wants! This article allows for a delay equal to or less than the refs arguing on the field would cause! And that's about how long command took here, so the delay aspect is ok.
Article 6b - Integrity of the game step-in: can "correct an egregiously wrong judgment". This could also be indicated here, however this article explicitly says "immediate decision" and "the game is not paused". So this article doesn't apply here, and if it does, command broke the rules because they paused the game.
Articles 7 & 8 don't apply.
I must be correct about Article 1, otherwise every other article is superfluous. So Article 6a is the only other option, unless command screwed up here. But article 6a requires 2 refs to be in disagreement and the ref group to ask for help. Did that happen? If so, why the call on the field?
To make this more transparent for fans, I think that if 6a is invoked, and the refs make a call on the field, they say: "the ruling is X, but officials are in disagreement and have asked for command review". Or just "the ruling is X but we have asked for command review".
Valesi told us it was a command center step-in. As for the pause issue, Valesi did not pause the game for a replay review. It was only the TV announcers that said so. Sure, technically there was a short delay, like a calldown for a respot usually is, but it was not a pause of the game.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 26, 2024, 06:36:31 AMThe stupidest. Lamest carve-out (both rule and field boundary!) in football history. Can't they just lay out some extra turf on the track? Maybe one day MTL will get a "real" stadium, not some poncy U sports hand-me-down (and not some roof-structure-challenged behemoth either).
They should just make the field 5 yards shorter and make the EZ full...
lol
The Argos have the hybrid grass w/turf endzones, the two largest markets have the two most embarrassing stadiums.
The Olympic Stadium in MTL is still working, no? And the Blue Jays aren't really using the Skydome anymore... just saying
Great game by the two best teams in their respective divisions. Low scoring as both Ds are dominant. Great comeback by the Als lead by Alexander who was amazing in relief of Evans. That first play where he escaped the rush and made a completion to Philpot set the tone. Als were fortunate but give them credit for clawing out a win. Two FG crossbars for the Riders was the difference in this one plus the stellar play of Alexander!
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 26, 2024, 03:35:06 PMGreat game by the two best teams in their respective divisions. Low scoring as both Ds are dominant. Great comeback by the Als lead by Alexander who was amazing in relief of Evans. That first play where he escaped the rush and made a completion to Philpot set the tone. Als were fortunate but give them credit for clawing out a win. Two FG crossbars for the Riders was the difference in this one plus the stellar play of Alexander!
I agree, this was a great game to watch. As a Riders fan, it was and is frustrating to see them miss 2 more field goals. Those 6 points...well you see where I am going with this. Kicking needs to get better.
It is amazing how I see it happen all the time in the CFL, rookie QB comes in, lights it up, and a smart strong defense has nothing to stop him. Then the next time the kid plays he looks just OK or not good at all.
This has been a great season with lots of close games, and it being any teams game to win.
Not going to say they are going to the CUP, but I do like the direction the Riders are heading this year, the new coach has really revived the team, and by the looks of it the fan base as well. Will be happy with a few more wins (labour day for one) and a trip to the playoffs, after the last few years or crap play.
Alexander shone in that game, pretty sure he just gave MTL the boost they needed in the absence of Fajardo. They will be shopping for a #3 guy now, not a #1 guy. At least for the near future, until Alexander stumbles.
The two bars hit in one game hasn't been done in a while, but I do believe Lirim did it when he was here...
Quote from: theaardvark on July 26, 2024, 03:46:42 PMAlexander shone in that game, pretty sure he just gave MTL the boost they needed in the absence of Fajardo. They will be shopping for a #3 guy now, not a #1 guy. At least for the near future, until Alexander stumbles.
The two bars hit in one game hasn't been done in a while, but I do believe Lirim did it when he was here...
Yeah....not often you see two crossbars and with those you don't even get a rouge as the ball is a dead ball as soon as it bounces off the goal post. Philpot has been an absolute beast for the Als at receiver and the Riders I believe have the best running tandem in the CFL with Ouelette and Hickson.....they didn't miss a beat with Hickson who had nearly a 100 yards rushing in the first half and then the Als loaded the box with 7 in the 2nd half. Bomber fans may aregue that Brady and Johnny are the top running tandem and likely were last year....however this year our O-Line isn't nearly as dominant as is our running attack. q
Jekyl Hyde
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 26, 2024, 04:11:23 PMYeah....not often you see two crossbars and with those you don't even get a rouge as the ball is a dead ball as soon as it bounces off the goal post. Philpot has been an absolute beast for the Als at receiver and the Riders I believe have the best running tandem in the CFL with Ouelette and Hickson.....they didn't miss a beat with Hickson who had nearly a 100 yards rushing in the first half and then the Als loaded the box with 7 in the 2nd half. Bomber fans may aregue that Brady and Johnny are the top running tandem and likely were last year....however this year our O-Line isn't nearly as dominant as is our running attack. q
Ouellette is terrible. Hickson was much more effective for them.
Quote from: Jesse on July 26, 2024, 06:22:20 PMOuellette is terrible. Hickson was much more effective for them.
And Oliveira is better than both of them.
Alexander Plays Great! (https://twitter.com/i/status/1816869863392182714)
Not sure why the Riders went away from the running game. Hickson had over 100 yds first half and then seemed they didn't run the ball at all the second half. I think they got pannicked in Alexanders quick score and rather than pound the ball and chew up the clock and pull back some momentum, they chose to go 2 and out passing and give the ball back to him again, and he scored a TD again!! As my old football coach used to say, if we quit giving them the ball so much, they wouldn't score so much!!
Quote from: Stats Junkie on July 26, 2024, 08:15:28 AMLast time it was applied was August 4, 2022. Rasheed Bailey was penalized for Illegal Participation on a 12 yard reception on a 1st and 15 play. Montreal chose to make it 2nd and 15 rather than 1st and 25.
Thanks for that! It's nice having a fount of knowledge here.
Funny I don't remember that... I must not have paid attention to the penalty choice as I'm guessing it didn't end the game like this one did. I'll have to go dig up that game on the PVR to give it a look.
Bailey would often get screwed over on the details, like his first TD/not-TD in the '19 GC. Shafted on a tiny little error (which I still dispute!).
Quote from: bomb squad on July 26, 2024, 02:00:13 PMValesi told us it was a command center step-in. As for the pause issue, Valesi did not pause the game for a replay review. It was only the TV announcers that said so. Sure, technically there was a short delay, like a calldown for a respot usually is, but it was not a pause of the game.
When command/ref says it's a review, and the little "review" word goes up on the chyron, and they don't blow in the next play immediately, that's a "pause".
Valesi's first words are "the ruling on the field is incomplete pass, 3rd down".
Then there is a 51 second pause.Then Valesi's gets back on the mic and says "after step in by command center the ball will be placed on the 29 yard foot (sic) line after a fumble".
Nearly 1 minute is a "pause of the game". The rules were all tweaked in recent years with the extra verbiage for when they can pause, how long they can take without a pause, etc. There is no excuse here for the normal "what's the spot" delay, because it was ruled incomplete: the spot is the last LoS. There is literally no excuse for not allowing substitutions and blowing the play in as they usually do, which is normally a fair bit less than 51s.
I believe there was a "pause" "for review" as the rule book defines it. And I believe command had no right to do that without a situation of "two refs arguing". And if 2 refs were arguing, why did they issue a call on the field? We've seen cases where they go straight to review without offering any call on the field!
The part that gets my goat is in previous years there's been a couple of fumbles exactly like this where the field call went against WPG and command never stepped in then!! It's all so arbitrary, and entirely non-transparent. Command/refs should outline exactly what (i.e. rule) is prompting such reviews with better verbiage. I fully agree with all the miffed Rider fans on this one.
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on July 26, 2024, 04:11:23 PMRiders I believe have the best running tandem in the CFL with Ouelette and Hickson.....they didn't miss a beat with Hickson who had nearly a 100 yards rushing in the first half and then the Als loaded the box with 7 in the 2nd half. Bomber fans may aregue that Brady and Johnny are the top running tandem and likely were last year....
Ya, except even if Ouellette/Hickson are just as good as Brady/Johnny, they aren't because they take up
2 entire IMP spots. That's brutal from a ratio standpoint, and makes it nearly impossible for SSK to dress both in the same game. Because of the nature of our CFL, when players are equal in talent, the one with the passport is worth much more because of the ratio.
Oh ya, and Ouellette has had an abysmal season (even with Yoshi bulldozing the path, pre-injury!) and Riderfans are getting extremely restless. Seeing Hickson light up the best team in the league is stirring up quite a "RB controversy" over in greenville!
However, let's all temper what we saw from Hickson because:
a) MTL is apparently weak against the run
b) MTL clearly gameplanned around a pass-first O like SSK used on us
c) When MTL adjusted at HT they were able to eliminate Hickson
Ouellette will start when he's healthy: there's too much SMS and merch sales tied up in him to anoint Hickson as the frachise RB. Those thor hammers won't sell themselves!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 27, 2024, 07:05:07 AMWhen command/ref says it's a review, and the little "review" word goes up on the chyron, and they don't blow in the next play immediately, that's a "pause".
Valesi's first words are "the ruling on the field is incomplete pass, 3rd down".
Then there is a 51 second pause.
Then Valesi's gets back on the mic and says "after step in by command center the ball will be placed on the 29 yard foot (sic) line after a fumble".
Nearly 1 minute is a "pause of the game". The rules were all tweaked in recent years with the extra verbiage for when they can pause, how long they can take without a pause, etc. There is no excuse here for the normal "what's the spot" delay, because it was ruled incomplete: the spot is the last LoS. There is literally no excuse for not allowing substitutions and blowing the play in as they usually do, which is normally a fair bit less than 51s.
I believe there was a "pause" "for review" as the rule book defines it. And I believe command had no right to do that without a situation of "two refs arguing". And if 2 refs were arguing, why did they issue a call on the field? We've seen cases where they go straight to review without offering any call on the field!
The part that gets my goat is in previous years there's been a couple of fumbles exactly like this where the field call went against WPG and command never stepped in then!! It's all so arbitrary, and entirely non-transparent. Command/refs should outline exactly what (i.e. rule) is prompting such reviews with better verbiage. I fully agree with all the miffed Rider fans on this one.
I think we're in agreement on the arbitrariness. Also that it took a little longer than it should have. But we have to keep in mind that they had to be accurate on where they re-spotted the ball as it was critical. However...
The bolded didn't happen. There was not an official pause for review. When the ref whistles the next play in is at his discretion. There was a re-spotting of the ball. "Delay" and "Immediate" are subjective terms in this case. It would be impossible to apply a step-in without some kind of delay. The ref is working in a loud, chaotic environment, while trying to communicate with people verbally on electronic devices. It's going to take some extra time.
The call miss on the field was egregious and did warrant a step-in per the rules.
Quote from: bomb squad on July 27, 2024, 03:14:06 PMThe bolded didn't happen. There was not an official pause for review. When the ref whistles the next play in is at his discretion. There was a re-spotting of the ball. "Delay" and "Immediate" are subjective terms in this case.
If the refs were sticking to their incompletion theory, then there is no re-spot! The sticks don't move! So you can't say there was any delay for a re-spot. It's literally the easiest ball-placement scenario for the refs!
As for "delay"... I started measuring the delays between whistles in the surrounding "normal" plays. I only did a couple so far, and they seem to be between 30-40s. So close to 51, but if I can't find any above 40, I'll maintain that the extra 11 is significant enough to say command calling down to them to "hold on a sec" is a delay as opposed to "no delay".
Quote from: bomb squad on July 27, 2024, 03:14:06 PMThe call miss on the field was egregious and did warrant a step-in per the rules.
It was not egregious. Egregious, as previously used in CFL precedent, means it's obvious to nearly everyone in
live time. It does not mean obvious in
slow-mo replay from the 3rd angle when the difference between result A and B is a single tenth of a second!
For instance, the phantom DPIs on WPG in the SSK game were egregious because everyone knew live there was no DPI. Slowmo only confirmed it. This fumble/incompletion for SSK needed slowmo to tell what really happened.
Unfortunately, since none of these words are clearly defined or given examples in the rule book, you can interpret it your way and I can mine, and we're both correct.
My main metric is when the fan bases of the two competitors, as well as 3rd party bitter rivals, all agree that refs/command got it wrong... and when my comp PVR tricks show me what happened.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 28, 2024, 10:11:53 AMIf the refs were sticking to their incompletion theory, then there is no re-spot! The sticks don't move! So you can't say there was any delay for a re-spot. It's literally the easiest ball-placement scenario for the refs!
As for "delay"... I started measuring the delays between whistles in the surrounding "normal" plays. I only did a couple so far, and they seem to be between 30-40s. So close to 51, but if I can't find any above 40, I'll maintain that the extra 11 is significant enough to say command calling down to them to "hold on a sec" is a delay as opposed to "no delay".
It was not egregious. Egregious, as previously used in CFL precedent, means it's obvious to nearly everyone in live time. It does not mean obvious in slow-mo replay from the 3rd angle when the difference between result A and B is a single tenth of a second!
For instance, the phantom DPIs on WPG in the SSK game were egregious because everyone knew live there was no DPI. Slowmo only confirmed it. This fumble/incompletion for SSK needed slowmo to tell what really happened.
Unfortunately, since none of these words are clearly defined or given examples in the rule book, you can interpret it your way and I can mine, and we're both correct.
My main metric is when the fan bases of the two competitors, as well as 3rd party bitter rivals, all agree that refs/command got it wrong... and when my comp PVR tricks show me what happened.
Sure, go with it then.