Let the re-build of the re-build of the re-build start
https://www.cfl.ca/2024/07/15/elks-relieve-gm-and-head-coach-chris-jones-of-his-duties/
high time. Should have been in the off-season.
Wow, Bede may not be able to sleep at night.
"Geroy Simon takes over as interim general manager, while offensive coordinator and quarterbacks Coach Jarious Jackson becomes the team's interim head coach. Jackson will retain his offensive play calling duties."
Lord almighty, Jackson is part of the problem, not the solution.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 15, 2024, 09:35:13 PMWow, Bede may not be able to sleep at night.
"Geroy Simon takes over as interim general manager, while offensive coordinator and quarterbacks Coach Jarious Jackson becomes the team's interim head coach. Jackson will retain his offensive play calling duties."
Lord almighty, Jackson is part of the problem, not the solution.
Exactly. Explain to me why it took the elks 4 quarters before they threw the ball to lewis, their most prolific and dangerous weapon they have?!?
I said yesterday I d have sent Bede packing after the kick out of bounds, or else Jones would be fired, and they chose Jones. And Jones should have ran the clock down to zero on the final play to ensure they go to overtime so maybe that got him canned. At season one Nd they need to clean house as Jackson is not the answer not even as an OC
https://3downnation.com/2024/07/15/edmonton-elks-fire-head-coach-and-general-manager-chris-jones/
:D
Lord almighty. About freaking time! Jarious Jackson HC. YIKES! Guess they had not much choice.
Bede cost his coach his job today.
Quote from: dd on July 15, 2024, 09:59:05 PMExactly. Explain to me why it took the elks 4 quarters before they threw the ball to lewis, their most prolific and dangerous weapon they have?!?
I said yesterday I d have sent Bede packing after the kick out of bounds, or else Jones would be fired, and they chose Jones. And Jones should have ran the clock down to zero on the final play to ensure they go to overtime so maybe that got him canned. At season one Nd they need to clean house as Jackson is not the answer not even as an OC
Whatever happened to Stephen McAdoo?
Jarious Jackson has been around for a long time. He could be the next Dinwiddie or Dickenson as a QB becoming coach. I'm not sure how much Chris Jones directed the offence. I thought that was Jackson, so not much needs to change in that aspect?
Geroy Simon is a talented resource. He'll start making changes soon. Deadwood out on the roster. Might even see some trades to get some immediate help.
Not much needs to change on offense?? How about throwing the ball to Lewis before 90 percent of the game is over. To me, Jackson is the problem, but whatever, fire jones and then fire Jackson, doesn't matter to me, but when you misuse arguably the most prolific receiver in the game, you can start there with the axe!!
What a dumpster fire. LOL
Quote from: dd on July 15, 2024, 10:34:21 PMNot much needs to change on offense?? How about throwing the ball to Lewis before 90 percent of the game is over. To me, Jackson is the problem, but whatever, fire jones and then fire Jackson, doesn't matter to me, but when you misuse arguably the most prolific receiver in the game, you can start there with the axe!!
Game plan might change now that Jackson has more freedom than he might have had with Jones. I was speaking about their offensive roster. They can put up points. Need more focus but their losses have been to very small margins and shooting themselves in the foot.
If Jackson was the one not wanting to throw to Lewis you might have a point. It wouldn't seem that wasn't the case because the HC could have influenced the game plan before the game and even during.
The Elks didn't have much focus on the run game. MBT as a passer was the focus. They need more balance. However, whether that was the OC, HC or lack of confidence in their RB's, IDK.
Onto the next game. If players didn't think their jobs were on the line recently, they better re-think that. More scrutiny.
Still early enough to salvage the season. Won't be easy.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 15, 2024, 11:29:04 PMIf Jackson was the one not wanting to throw to Lewis you might have a point. It wouldn't seem that wasn't the case because the HC could have influenced the game plan before the game and even during.
Ya, you guys/gals are making a lot of assumptions about the use of Lewis.
Jarius is the OC so he's the one directing the plays. In no way, shape or form does the HC tell his OC "make sure you don't throw to player X". That's patently ridiculous.
Not throwing to Lewis is a function of Jarius, MBT, and the blanket coverage OTT would be putting on him all game.
Quote from: dd on July 15, 2024, 10:34:21 PMTo me, Jackson is the problem, but whatever, fire jones and then fire Jackson, doesn't matter to me, but when you misuse arguably the most prolific receiver in the game, you can start there with the axe!!
dd gets it.
I actually feel a bit bad for Jones. Did you see his face when all these dumb plays were occurring? He couldn't believe it.
Quote from: dd on July 15, 2024, 09:59:05 PMI said yesterday I d have sent Bede packing after the kick out of bounds, or else Jones would be fired, and they chose Jones.
I'm starting to wonder about this whole situation. Did anyone see Bede's face after the missed FG and especially the botched KO? They showed him sitting on the sidelines a lot. He didn't look the way kickers who screw up and cost games look. He was smiling, laughing, saying "ya!", just leaning back relaxing. It was bizarre.
Remember how H<20 more letters> looked when missing his 5 kicks in 1 game? Ya, he didn't look like that. He looked suicidal, not insouciant.
I wonder if there was some internal setup to
sabotage Jones. It all seems very convenient. A potential HoF kicker who has probably the best leg (strength) and basically never misses from inside the 40 suddenly misses a 31Y FG and then screws up a straight-down-mainstreet KO?
I would bet dollars to donuts the management already wanted him out and there were rumors or covert meetings and plans. They just needed a better excuse: sheer incompetence in front of home fans was the perfect cover.
Remember, these are the same dolts who hired Jones in the first place. They are doing their own CYA. Take the spotlight off of their dumb decision 3 years ago, and the wasted 3 years. I can't even recall one person on this forum or Riderfans that thought hiring Jones was a good idea back then. It was one of the dumbest decisions in all of CFL history.
This whole situation stinks, but we'll probably never know. Maybe we'll get a hint if Bede is retained, or given a bonus!
Quote from: dd on July 15, 2024, 09:59:05 PMAnd Jones should have ran the clock down to zero on the final play to ensure they go to overtime so maybe that got him canned.
Easy to say now. I can't recall ever seeing a team run down the clock on a 3rd&G from the 1. Ever. You want to leave a bit of clock for backup tries should team B go O/S (there was time for 2-3 more tries). Team B going O/S is like a 20% occurrence rate! You show me one other game where a team drained clock in this exact situation.
No, you play it normally and you hoof it and you make 1 single stop on D in prevent D formation. The only way teams ever win in this situation is if they get the 2-3 times-a-season KO return for TD... and that's also nearly impossible here because ST can play "prevent D" too and sit way back because they don't care if they give up 10-40, they just can't give up 50-100. If the returner runs longer than 8s the game is over anyhow.
Is this Jones' last year of contract? So this won't hurt EDM beyong 2024? But now Jarius/Geroy have to take on all the extra job without any increase in pay. I guess becoming King is worth it and they can take their huge payday in 2025?
And they don't even have to produce in 2024: everyone will give them a mulligan because they are "stuck with Jones' mess". This doesn't necessarily help EDM start winning. They might be in chaos the rest of the season.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 16, 2024, 02:09:10 AMI'm starting to wonder about this whole situation. Did anyone see Bede's face after the missed FG and especially the botched KO? They showed him sitting on the sidelines a lot. He didn't look the way kickers who screw up and cost games look. He was smiling, laughing, saying "ya!", just leaning back relaxing. It was bizarre.
Remember how H<20 more letters> looked when missing his 5 kicks in 1 game? Ya, he didn't look like that. He looked suicidal, not insouciant.
I wonder if there was some internal setup to sabotage Jones. It all seems very convenient. A potential HoF kicker who has probably the best leg (strength) and basically never misses from inside the 40 suddenly misses a 31Y FG and then screws up a straight-down-mainstreet KO?
I would bet dollars to donuts the management already wanted him out and there were rumors or covert meetings and plans. They just needed a better excuse: sheer incompetence in front of home fans was the perfect cover.
Remember, these are the same dolts who hired Jones in the first place. They are doing their own CYA. Take the spotlight off of their dumb decision 3 years ago, and the wasted 3 years. I can't even recall one person on this forum or Riderfans that thought hiring Jones was a good idea back then. It was one of the dumbest decisions in all of CFL history.
This whole situation stinks, but we'll probably never know. Maybe we'll get a hint if Bede is retained, or given a bonus!
Lots of tin foil here
Quote from: Blueforlife on July 16, 2024, 02:43:41 AMLots of tin foil here
You know it! Extra heavy duty on right now.
You be the judge. Does this look a dude who just single-handedly cost his team the game via 2 horrifically bad kicks? Note the clock should someone think I'm taking this out of context.
Ya, I've never seen a kicker smile in this situation before. Have you?
(https://fsi.ca/tec/bede0.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/bede1.jpg)
Like I said yesterday, no questions asked the dude would be gone the second the game is over for that. By accepting you can laugh and be happy when you just cost us the game, tells me you're a loser, and jones by not taking action left management with no option somebodies heads gotta roll at 0-5, and the guy who's putting up with this loser mentality is the first to go.
I wonder if he resurfaces as a DC next year or have we seen the last of him?
Quote from: dd on July 16, 2024, 03:27:41 AMI wonder if he resurfaces as a DC next year or have we seen the last of him?
It's the last of him. He got Kent Austin'd and won't be back. I can see him maybe getting gigs in the USA, but not in the CFL. Rightfully or not, he takes the entire fall for EDM's 3-year(plus!) failure. The goat has been staked to the ground outside of town. All EDM sins are washed away. At least for now.
Not that it's a big part of it, but you wouldn't go from combined HC+GM salary of probably $600-$750k to $150k DC money anyway.
Quote from: dd on July 15, 2024, 10:34:21 PMNot much needs to change on offense?? How about throwing the ball to Lewis before 90 percent of the game is over. To me, Jackson is the problem, but whatever, fire jones and then fire Jackson, doesn't matter to me, but when you misuse arguably the most prolific receiver in the game, you can start there with the axe!!
A lot of that is decided by MBT and from watching Lewis run lazy routes, I'm not sure I blame him. He's never played with Lewis before so I guess he's not going to throw the ball to a slow moving double covered receiver if he has any other options. Once they're more comfortable with each other they'll probably build up some decent chemistry.
The ironic thing is, Jones had EDM losing by tighter margins than we (WPG) were losing by... nearly every game was lost by a FG or less. Of course, we started winning. But before that... was MOS's job on the line like Jones'? Nope.
Either this was planned and this loss was just the last straw, or EDM braintrust made a very hasty panic decision. There's no other option.
I'm not sure this helps EDM short term. They could slide back into losing by huge margins. The players may be totally checked out by next week. We shall see.
A little something I whipped up for the occasion...
(https://fsi.ca/tec/et-tu-jarius.jpg)
Since 2022 - 8 wins, 33 losses. That pretty much says it all. It is astounding that he lasted this long and the 0 and 5 start in 2024 sealed the deal.
Quote from: ModAdmin on July 16, 2024, 07:20:12 AMSince 2022 - 8 wins, 33 losses. That pretty much says it all. It is astounding that he lasted this long and the 0 and 5 start in 2024 sealed the deal.
Agreed. Not trending up in any way.
I hope they don't start winning for our sake!
Quote from: Tiger on July 16, 2024, 12:10:17 PMAgreed. Not trending up in any way.
I hope they don't start winning for our sake!
Yeah, we never seem to get the schedule for this. I remember we never got to play Ottawa one year when they were the league worst, and now we don't play Edmonton until the absolute end of the year.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 16, 2024, 03:07:49 AMYou be the judge. Does this look a dude who just single-handedly cost his team the game via 2 horrifically bad kicks? Note the clock should someone think I'm taking this out of context.
Ya, I've never seen a kicker smile in this situation before. Have you?
(https://fsi.ca/tec/bede0.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/bede1.jpg)
This reminds of the Bomber who got caught on camera laughing when the Bombers were being blown out a few years ago. That player never played again. Does anyone remember the players name?
If you have time to joke around and smile after losing by missing a fundamental kick you need to be off a professional roster.
Good for jones. amazing stat stating esks more games by fewer than the Bombers.
But those coordinators, deserve some acrimony as well. They should start talking trade. Is it just me but for the few years they had the slowest, lousiest o line men.
Imagine If McLeod had time to throw?
Edmonton and Hamilton scouts should share a ride and go get some big ole boys.
Jones had lost the faith of the once loyal fanbase. Three years of auditions for next year? This change at least gives the regular fan some hope, especially if they manage to win the next one. Winning is good and so is selling tickets.
Quote from: bwiser on July 16, 2024, 02:39:50 PMThis reminds of the Bomber who got caught on camera laughing when the Bombers were being blown out a few years ago. That player never played again. Does anyone remember the players name?
Can't say I agree that Brandon Collier and others laughing it up behind Burke on the sidelines during an all-too common blowout back in the dumpster fire that was the 2012 season is anywhere near whatever Bede was doing the the other night. And certainly not based on two still photos taken from a broadcast.
IIRC, Collier never played again because he was placed on the 9-game injured list (https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/blue-bombers-add-training-camp-cut-andre-carroll-to-defensive-line-1.959929) after that embarrassing loss in Calgary.
Jones has been a CFL trainwreck since the Duron Carter conversion.
He will end up as a Div 1 D coordinator making more money, but getting no headlines.
Its was reported that they have to pay him for 12 months after being let go, so his $SMS hit continues next year. That's a lot of $$$ they have to replace for free, hence using existing staff.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 16, 2024, 05:40:33 PMJones has been a CFL trainwreck since the Duron Carter conversion.
I would say his troubles started when his head got too big after winning his first championship as a HC in 2015.
Straight up hubris.
https://www.cfl.ca/2024/07/16/elks-add-former-dt-almondo-sewell-as-d-line-coach/
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 16, 2024, 06:01:25 PMI would say his troubles started when his head got too big after winning his first championship as a HC in 2015.
Straight up hubris.
and finished based on the last game decisions including;
Not having bede just kick deep rather than squib
Not running down the clock on 3rd down , maybe not to 0 sec but at least to 3
Putting in moncrief with one weeks practice after not playing for how long
continually changing up the roster, on defense it showed they looked like they had zero communication going on
It just the latest in questionable decision making (i still have no understanding of why they traded ceresna for gittens..and now they have no rush)
Not surprising that Jones got fired. Probably waited until they can afford the cap hit. Edmonton has talented players, they just don't seem to be able to come together as a team.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 16, 2024, 05:40:33 PMIts was reported that they have to pay him for 12 months after being let go, so his $SMS hit continues next year. That's a lot of $$$ they have to replace for free, hence using existing staff.
Edit: was wrong on the info, see new post farther below
This confuses me. I'm pretty sure this is Jones' year 3 of a 3 year contract. That would mean he could be cut in the off-season with zero SMS hit. Right?
But if they cut him early they owe him the promised year 3 salary and some made up out of thin air part-of-year-4 salary?
Does that make sense to anyone?
Quote from: Pete on July 16, 2024, 08:56:34 PMNot having bede just kick deep rather than squib
Did Jones call the squib? Or did Jones call the normal KO? How can we know?
Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faUlfRmcVXw
Jones says the plan was for Bede to hoof it through the EZ to get a point if he could. No squib plan. It would be a hoofer lowish-trajectory KO. Either they get the point, or at least the ball is super deep, then cover can lay back in "prevent ST" to just stop the returner from getting much beyond the 45.
Everyone needs to remember a return from the 10 or 20 (normal for the CFL) would easily take 5s, which would only leave time on the clock for a hail Mary, NOT time for a pass and then a FG.
Not bleeding the clock was the right move. Literally the only way you lose with 8s left is with a botched KO or a KO return TD. The Dru 20Y pass only helps you if you have at least 6s+ on the clock.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 17, 2024, 02:53:53 AMThis confuses me. I'm pretty sure this is Jones' year 3 of a 3 year contract. That would mean he could be cut in the off-season with zero SMS hit. Right?
But if they cut him early they owe him the promised year 3 salary and some made up out of thin air part-of-year-4 salary?
Does that make sense to anyone?
The loss of revenue and fans probably supercedes any salary implications by letting Jones finish out the season. Paying fans in the seats is what drives the future and once fans leave, it takes a while to recover them. Remember over 3 years they had a record of 8 - 33. That is not leading to a sustainable future. They probably should have pulled the trigger before the season started but here we are and the right decision was made I think.
That post-firing interview with the owner/prez/whatever was pretty telling. He said they had been making contingency plans since last season (paraphrasing). All they needed was an excuse to finally do the deed.
Well, no one can say they didn't give him more than enough rope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmOVGKNPGA4
2&Out Podcast said Jones was on a 4-year deal, with a special 12-month max severance. So that's why Jones will get paid on the cap for another 12 months, but not beyond.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9og_9AL1ZY&t=17s
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 17, 2024, 02:54:34 AMDid Jones call the squib? Or did Jones call the normal KO? How can we know?
Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faUlfRmcVXw
Jones says the plan was for Bede to hoof it through the EZ to get a point if he could. No squib plan. It would be a hoofer lowish-trajectory KO. Either they get the point, or at least the ball is super deep, then cover can lay back in "prevent ST" to just stop the returner from getting much beyond the 45.
Everyone needs to remember a return from the 10 or 20 (normal for the CFL) would easily take 5s, which would only leave time on the clock for a hail Mary, NOT time for a pass and then a FG.
Not bleeding the clock was the right move. Literally the only way you lose with 8s left is with a botched KO or a KO return TD. The Dru 20Y pass only helps you if you have at least 6s+ on the clock.
I believe that the call was for a knuckleball, to limit the return. Deep but unpredictable bounce so that the returner can't get north/south on it fast. Problem with a knucklball, as an basebal catcher will tell you, is that no one knows where it is going... and Bede had an unfortunate bounce if the absolutely worst direction. Would a deep, straight ball been a better choice with the strength of Bede's leg? I'm sure Jones must think that now...
That said, Jones gets paid for another year to do nothing. I feel sorry for anyone who feels sorry for him. He made his bed... and crapped in it.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 17, 2024, 02:34:43 PMI believe that the call was for a knuckleball, to limit the return. Deep but unpredictable bounce so that the returner can't get north/south on it fast. Problem with a knucklball, as an basebal catcher will tell you, is that no one knows where it is going... and Bede had an unfortunate bounce if the absolutely worst direction. Would a deep, straight ball been a better choice with the strength of Bede's leg? I'm sure Jones must think that now...
That said, Jones gets paid for another year to do nothing. I feel sorry for anyone who feels sorry for him. He made his bed... and crapped in it.
Deadman walking Jones looks like he already knew his fate, but besides that he says in the video below Bede tried to overkick the ball and missed, same thing can happen in golf.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 17, 2024, 02:34:43 PMI believe that the call was for a knuckleball, to limit the return. Deep but unpredictable bounce so that the returner can't get north/south on it fast. Problem with a knucklball, as an basebal catcher will tell you, is that no one knows where it is going... and Bede had an unfortunate bounce if the absolutely worst direction. Would a deep, straight ball been a better choice with the strength of Bede's leg? I'm sure Jones must think that now...
That said, Jones gets paid for another year to do nothing. I feel sorry for anyone who feels sorry for him. He made his bed... and crapped in it.
his directions were to kick it as hard as he can to get the ball deep. The comparison was made to overswinging in baseball or golf which seldom turns out good, Its only partially on Jones as you expect a kicker like bede to execute, but just another nail.
How long will it be before the Elks have a clearance sale on black sideline gear?
Well were they not talking about private ownership earlier this year?.
Move them to Fort McMurray. Don't those northern workers have more money than they know what to do with?
Good on Jones in his post game presser, he didn't call out anyone and backed up his kicker saying he overkicked the ball.
The thing that puzzles me, is I thought Jones was a defensive guru, but the Elks defense sucks. Riders have former DC as their HC and their defense is very strong. Had the Elks had a decent defense, they'd be ok. MBT has Lewis and Brown to work with , their O will be ok, but their D, yeesh, they gotta pick it up and quit giving up big play after big play
Quote from: ModAdmin on July 17, 2024, 04:15:28 AMThe loss of revenue and fans probably supercedes any salary implications by letting Jones finish out the season. Paying fans in the seats is what drives the future and once fans leave, it takes a while to recover them. Remember over 3 years they had a record of 8 - 33. That is not leading to a sustainable future. They probably should have pulled the trigger before the season started but here we are and the right decision was made I think.
If the organization remains a Mickey Mouse one, firing Jones and bringing in new coaches & GM won't help zip! Beyond winning you want people feeling good or at least respectful about your organization and not see you as some bunch of clowns trying to run a football team!;) Having a competitive football team and BELIEF from the community & fans in the people running the team builds longer term support from individuals and sponsors. If you are a bunch of clowns in the circus running the show (like the Bombers were prior to the Manitoba mafia taking over), bringing in a Tom Landy or Bill Belichick or Wally Buono does not help much. I think the roots of Edmonton's issues go father than just the GM & HC.
A once very proud franchise has been short changed for too long now. Calgary had a similar issue with the cardboard box maker owner from southern California elevating his OWN SON to backup QB. 🙄😮 Wally Buono could not accept that and is mainly the reason why he bolted for the west coast. Only when primarily the Stampeder Alumni stepped in and said this owner must go after constant Calgary community and fan protest did things change for the better. The Stamps were a clown organization for a few years similar to the Gliebermans in Ottawa in the 1990's. Been many such clown organizations in the history of the CFL, but seems to be more since the early 1980's. Nelson Skalbania, Murray Pezim...the list goes on! :D Even the GREAT Gretzky/John Candy/Bruce McNall combo only last 2+ years in Toronto. After those owners left the team went downhill in a second.