Another important game (yes, they all are!)
But building on a win streak after 4 consecutive losses is pretty crucial for the standings, players' confidence and the fans.
Of the 9 players on the July 10, 2024 Injury Report, only one - Tyjaun Garbutt - is listed "out" for the Calgary game. While the other 8 - including Zach Collaros and Brady Oliviera - are listed as "questionable", all 8 have participated fully in recent practice sessions.
The 48-Hour Primer by Ed Tait on this game is here! (http://www.bluebombers.com/2024/07/10/48-hour-primer-cal-at-wpg/)
Of note...
"I love the way Redha plays football, his passion for the game. And he's got that ability to be a *****, and that's a good thing on the football field."
Asked today to expand a bit further on the '*****' component, O'Shea added this: "It's a term of endearment from me. When that gets that bestowed upon him, that's very positive. It's just that edge — not the penalty — just the edge, the desire to win your one-on-one and beat your opponent all the time and no quarter. You just want to beat them."
Yes, let's be clear here before we go any further, the praise had nothing to do with the penalty O'Shea referred to — Kramdi's poor decision to level former teammate Dru Brown as the Ottawa RedBlacks quarterback was sliding in last week's game and a shot that caused the quarterback to exit the game and be in concussion protocol this week.
More on the game will be forthcoming but, in the meantime, you game comments can be posted here.
Remember the Tailgate prior to the game...
$5.00 355ml cans of Coors Original, Coors Light Beer – Available until Kickoff
$3.50 Fountain Drinks – Available until Kickoff
$3.50 Hot Dogs – Available all game
Quote from: ModAdmin on July 11, 2024, 01:50:56 AMAsked today to expand a bit further on the '*****' component, O'Shea added this: "It's a term of endearment from me. When that gets that bestowed upon him, that's very positive. It's just that edge — not the penalty — just the edge, the desire to win your one-on-one and beat your opponent all the time and no quarter. You just want to beat them."
Yes, let's be clear here before we go any further, the praise had nothing to do with the penalty O'Shea referred to — Kramdi's poor decision to level former teammate Dru Brown as the Ottawa RedBlacks quarterback was sliding in last week's game and a shot that caused the quarterback to exit the game and be in concussion protocol this week.
Ya, I agree with both, that's the way I took them too. It's just MOS idioms. We've gotten used to them over the (many) years. I find them amusing. Hey, maybe MOS is a bit of a <asterisks> too! And I bet he'd agree and be happy. :D :D :D
After rewatching the OTT@WPG game and reflecting, I worry we may be reading too much into the win -- maybe getting a bit too excited.
Did we all lose sight of the fact that OTT was missing their "star" QB for over one half of the game? Instead of a capable pocket passer they had to roll with a can't-throw almost-noob... who directly cost them two turnovers! We need to keep this in focus. Just because of the Crumback on us in 2023, it doesn't mean Crum is any good.
Maier isn't the best, but he is a far better passer than Crum. And he's been coached to the max on how to not make his famous mistakes. Dickenson The Remaining desperately wants to turn him into Matt "Manager" Nichols.
I like the positive headspace the last win gives our players, and I like the momo (which does carry over into the next week: see MTL); but we need to be realistic. CGY is far better this season than last, and their previous game showed they are focusing on playing slobberknocker ball. It would be easy for us to get out-physicaled (or worse).
It may all rest on Zach: did the time off watching from the sidelines help to clear up his (lackluster this season) headspace? Maybe! Since his modus operandi wasn't working up to that point, I don't see how the extra reflecting-on-the-sideline time could hurt.
Play major error free football and run the ball well and we win. We are ready for this. Time to stomp the throat.
keys to the game
1. oline needs to give Zac time
2. keep Maier off balance
3. spread the ball around. Can't just throw to Demski/Wolitarski
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 11, 2024, 02:33:35 AMAfter rewatching the OTT@WPG game and reflecting, I worry we may be reading too much into the win -- maybe getting a bit too excited.
Did we all lose sight of the fact that OTT was missing their "star" QB for over one half of the game? Instead of a capable pocket passer they had to roll with a can't-throw almost-noob... who directly cost them two turnovers! We need to keep this in focus. Just because of the Crumback on us in 2023, it doesn't mean Crum is any good.
Maier isn't the best, but he is a far better passer than Crum. And he's been coached to the max on how to not make his famous mistakes. Dickenson The Remaining desperately wants to turn him into Matt "Manager" Nichols.
I like the positive headspace the last win gives our players, and I like the momo (which does carry over into the next week: see MTL); but we need to be realistic. CGY is far better this season than last, and their previous game showed they are focusing on playing slobberknocker ball. It would be easy for us to get out-physicaled (or worse).
It may all rest on Zach: did the time off watching from the sidelines help to clear up his (lackluster this season) headspace? Maybe! Since his modus operandi wasn't working up to that point, I don't see how the extra reflecting-on-the-sideline time could hurt.
The last game doesn't mean much if Zach is starting, the best we can hope for is Zach coming back with a vengeance like he did in games after a loss last season on numerous occasions and lighting it up. Not sure he can pull that off without a full complement of receivers he is very familiar with.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 11, 2024, 02:33:35 AMAfter rewatching the OTT@WPG game and reflecting, I worry we may be reading too much into the win -- maybe getting a bit too excited.
Did we all lose sight of the fact that OTT was missing their "star" QB for over one half of the game? Instead of a capable pocket passer they had to roll with a can't-throw almost-noob... who directly cost them two turnovers! We need to keep this in focus. Just because of the Crumback on us in 2023, it doesn't mean Crum is any good.
Maier isn't the best, but he is a far better passer than Crum. And he's been coached to the max on how to not make his famous mistakes. Dickenson The Remaining desperately wants to turn him into Matt "Manager" Nichols.
I like the positive headspace the last win gives our players, and I like the momo (which does carry over into the next week: see MTL); but we need to be realistic. CGY is far better this season than last, and their previous game showed they are focusing on playing slobberknocker ball. It would be easy for us to get out-physicaled (or worse).
It may all rest on Zach: did the time off watching from the sidelines help to clear up his (lackluster this season) headspace? Maybe! Since his modus operandi wasn't working up to that point, I don't see how the extra reflecting-on-the-sideline time could hurt.
Except Brown looked terrible, and Ott only had a sparkle of life when Crun came in.
Quote from: Pete on July 11, 2024, 03:53:28 AMkeys to the game
1. oline needs to give Zac time
2. keep Maier off balance
3. spread the ball around. Can't just throw to Demski/Wolitarski
pretty much it - and run the ball, BO is our star player, when he gets going he is almost unstoppable.
I'll add turnovers as a key to the game.
No surprise we won the turnover battle for the 1st time, and got our first win.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 11, 2024, 02:33:35 AMAfter rewatching the OTT@WPG game and reflecting, I worry we may be reading too much into the win -- maybe getting a bit too excited.
Did we all lose sight of the fact that OTT was missing their "star" QB for over one half of the game? Instead of a capable pocket passer they had to roll with a can't-throw almost-noob... who directly cost them two turnovers! We need to keep this in focus. Just because of the Crumback on us in 2023, it doesn't mean Crum is any good.
Maier isn't the best, but he is a far better passer than Crum. And he's been coached to the max on how to not make his famous mistakes. Dickenson The Remaining desperately wants to turn him into Matt "Manager" Nichols.
I like the positive headspace the last win gives our players, and I like the momo (which does carry over into the next week: see MTL); but we need to be realistic. CGY is far better this season than last, and their previous game showed they are focusing on playing slobberknocker ball. It would be easy for us to get out-physicaled (or worse).
It may all rest on Zach: did the time off watching from the sidelines help to clear up his (lackluster this season) headspace? Maybe! Since his modus operandi wasn't working up to that point, I don't see how the extra reflecting-on-the-sideline time could hurt.
Brown is far from a "star" yet. Sure he's a QB to hitch your wagon to, and I would not be adverse to him being our starter right now, but he is far from a "star".
Him leaving the game may actually have improved OTT's chance of winning. Crum is a good QB with a history against us. I do not think out win is lessened by Dru's injury.
We controlled the game in all aspects.
Depth chart out. No Lucky. Not humble enough yet -- (probably not in game shape, more likely)! Hubert starting and Ogbevoen to back up opposite of Jefferson. Killer Kramdi in his usual spot. Collaros starting and another start for Clercius.
Ok. 11 Canadians starting. Looking forward to seeing more of Hubert. He's looked good in his limited action so far this season.
As I mentioned I'm not sure about the 2nd global player. Maybe he's been really impressive in practice but what does this say about our import scouting and current depth. No indication that Haba is anywhere close to clearing IR so that leaves only Garbutt as a potential addition.
This may be a this week only look after Garbutt clears the current 6 game IR. Even that doesn't mean he gets activated next week automatically. He may require more time and the direct performances at DE, good or bad, may not force a change if he's not ready to go or deemed better.
Also want to see more of Clercius. He's raw but he has some skill and plays with attitude IMO.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 11, 2024, 03:17:24 PMOk. 11 Canadians starting. Looking forward to seeing more of Hubert. He's looked good in his limited action so far this season.
As I mentioned I'm not sure about the 2nd global player. Maybe he's been really impressive in practice but what does this say about our import scouting and current depth. No indication that Haba is anywhere close to clearing IR so that leaves only Garbutt as a potential addition.
This may be a this week only look after Garbutt clears the current 6 game IR. Even that doesn't mean he gets activated next week automatically. He may require more time and the direct performances at DE, good or bad, may not force a change if he's not ready to go or deemed better.
Also want to see more of Clercius. He's raw but he has some skill and plays with attitude IMO.
I said this in the other thread, but as much as I loved Hubert's game last week, is he and an undersized global linebacker the best we can find at DE?
Bring back Jeffcoat, at least til we can find someone else
Quote from: Pete on July 11, 2024, 03:53:28 AMkeys to the game
1. oline needs to give Zac time
2. keep Maier off balance
3. spread the ball around. Can't just throw to Demski/Wolitarski
I'll add this .. stop taking stupid penalties !!
Ed Tait @EdTaitWFC
Just one change to the @Wpg_BlueBombers lineup this week -- on is DE Lucky Ogbevoen, off is DE Ali Fayad, who was released earlier in this week. Owen Hubert listed as the starter at DE opposite Willie Jefferson
Darrin Bauming @DarrinBauming
Collaros starts, but no unexpected changes as the #Bombers host the rematch with the Stamps Friday night.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSNrtfRWsAAD9NH?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSNrtgEbsAAOxcK?format=jpg&name=large)
markonfootball @Markonfootball
Roster changes, Calgary Stampeders at Winnipeg Blue Bombers, July 12, 2024
Add to roster:
DB Nick Statz
RB Dedrick Mills
Remove from roster:
DB Ben Labrosse (1-game injured)
RB B. J. Emmons (6-game injured)
ROSTER ANALYSIS: Musical chairs at running back. B. J. Emmons is off, Dedrick Mills returns to work with Peyton Logan out of the backfield. Meanwhile, Nick Statz returns in the secondary as rookie Ben Labrosse nurses an ankle injury.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSNwQTCaMAABoKA?format=jpg&name=large)
Other small change along our defensive line is that Woods listed ahead of Adams (it was inversed last week). Not sure if it will affect snap counts but it's likely not an accident.
Quote from: Pete on July 11, 2024, 03:56:18 PMBring back Jeffcoat, at least til we can find someone else
At least you didn't say until they find someone better! :D
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 11, 2024, 05:44:23 PMOther small change along our defensive line is that Woods listed ahead of Adams (it was inversed last week). Not sure if it will affect snap counts but it's likely not an accident.
I noticed that too. It's likely to keep them both on their toes, I don't know if one has been any better than the other.
We have to get pressure on Maier!
Hubert strikes me as a good run-stopper. At 6-4 260lb he should at least get in the way of passing lanes too.
Not sure that anyone can say what to expect from Lucky though. Just a nice little side story to keep an eye on!
11 starting Nats. Is that a record in the modern era? It should be.
That gives us 2 free spots on either side of the ball for Americans to come in for Nats...
Kinda crazy.
Calgary dressing 9 DL, but only 6 OL. No Houston.
Going to be a tough night on the big boys.
Quote from: Pigskin on July 11, 2024, 08:37:54 PMCalgary dressing 9 DL, but only 6 OL. No Houston.
Going to be a tough night on the big boys.
9 man D-line??? They're telegraphing their game plan!
CGY: 3 DA's, and their LT is a GTD with only 6 OL dressed? (looks like they have Amer Tate available if Demery can't go. )
Maier might not get out of this alive.
Mills is back, so there's that. We have to stop him up the gut and then let the DB's ball hawk...
Our DT's are all 6'2 290 except for the svelte Thomas at 6'2 274. Skinniest DT has the nickname Fatboi.
Lets hope they rotate, stay fresh and pummel that Oline.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 11, 2024, 05:44:23 PMOther small change along our defensive line is that Woods listed ahead of Adams (it was inversed last week). Not sure if it will affect snap counts but it's likely not an accident.
Now that I've thought about this, Adam's will obviously start at DE, just like he did prior to Fayad moving there.
Listing Hubert there is just MOS roster shenanigans.
Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 11, 2024, 12:39:25 PMExcept Brown looked terrible, and Ott only had a sparkle of life when Crun came in.
I'm not sure I'd say Dru looked terrible. I would bet huge money that when Dru is cleared to play OTT will start (and roll with) Dru.
Are you hinting Crum is the better QB and will be anointed as starter?
The problem with a "run-mostly QB" is they can look great for 0-2 games and then Ds will key on their limitations and the QB will then suck (like Crum in 2023 after a couple of games). That's why its imperative we get Strev's passing game going if he is ever going to start for any period of time. Teams will figure out how to shut him down, just as they will Crum.
Quote from: Foxhound on July 11, 2024, 04:47:13 PMWhere pray tell?
Huge kudos to WFC... for this week they put the chart up on the bb.com depth chart page around the 24-hour-pre-KO time. In other words, they finally put it up on time just like every other team does.
WFC listening to the fans!! Keep it up, WFC and all is forgiven!
https://www.bluebombers.com/2024-depth-position-charts/
Thanks all, thanks WM!
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 11, 2024, 03:17:24 PMOk. 11 Canadians starting. Looking forward to seeing more of Hubert. He's looked good in his limited action so far this season.
Could we be in a good position to look at trades with our huge surplus of decent NATs, with a team that has a shortage of NATs?
My thinking is trade a low/mid-priced NAT to a team with an established middling/promising IMP (i.e. a possible SMS "bargain") at a position we have dire need of (DT, DE, WR).
Both sides could benefit, and we can afford it as at most it's ELC$ to $90-$110, which we can afford due to 6GIR.
Quote from: wpg#1 on July 11, 2024, 04:10:40 PMI'll add this .. stop taking stupid penalties !!
That should actually be job #1. Even though we're still low-penalized by league-wide standards, we're taking waaaay too many by our standards, especially on O. You can bet MOS is prioritizing this.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 11, 2024, 09:28:08 PMMills is back, so there's that. We have to stop him up the gut and then let the DB's ball hawk...
If I was CGY, I'd be having my RBs attack the edges. We're pretty stout against the gut. And we're pretty weak against the edge attack. And Logan & Mills can also be very fast.
Thankfully Maier is probably tied with Zach as being the least-runningy QB, so we don't have to worry about that with our usual wide open flat problem.
Let's kick some Stamp *** today boys!
GO BOMBERS GO
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2024, 06:22:29 AMCould we be in a good position to look at trades with our huge surplus of decent NATs, with a team that has a shortage of NATs?
My thinking is trade a low/mid-priced NAT to a team with an established middling/promising IMP (i.e. a possible SMS "bargain") at a position we have dire need of (DT, DE, WR).
Both sides could benefit, and we can afford it as at most it's ELC$ to $90-$110, which we can afford due to 6GIR.
That's occurred to me but finding a partner that wants what we're willing to give up and has something we want is always the challenge.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2024, 06:06:56 AMI'm not sure I'd say Dru looked terrible. I would bet huge money that when Dru is cleared to play OTT will start (and roll with) Dru.
Are you hinting Crum is the better QB and will be anointed as starter?
The problem with a "run-mostly QB" is they can look great for 0-2 games and then Ds will key on their limitations and the QB will then suck (like Crum in 2023 after a couple of games). That's why its imperative we get Strev's passing game going if he is ever going to start for any period of time. Teams will figure out how to shut him down, just as they will Crum.
Ott had no offense with Brown in there
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2024, 06:06:56 AMI'm not sure I'd say Dru looked terrible. I would bet huge money that when Dru is cleared to play OTT will start (and roll with) Dru.
Are you hinting Crum is the better QB and will be anointed as starter?
The problem with a "run-mostly QB" is they can look great for 0-2 games and then Ds will key on their limitations and the QB will then suck (like Crum in 2023 after a couple of games). That's why its imperative we get Strev's passing game going if he is ever going to start for any period of time. Teams will figure out how to shut him down, just as they will Crum.
All I'm saying is what I said.
Brown looked bad, Ott had no life with him at the helm, and only got some with Crum. The reasons for this are in your last paragraph.
I never said Crum would be the starter, I'm talking about our game only.
Brown won the position in camp, so they must feel pretty good about him as their starter, but I don't think he's irreplaceable.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2024, 06:06:56 AMI'm not sure I'd say Dru looked terrible. I would bet huge money that when Dru is cleared to play OTT will start (and roll with) Dru.
Are you hinting Crum is the better QB and will be anointed as starter?
The problem with a "run-mostly QB" is they can look great for 0-2 games and then Ds will key on their limitations and the QB will then suck (like Crum in 2023 after a couple of games). That's why its imperative we get Strev's passing game going if he is ever going to start for any period of time. Teams will figure out how to shut him down, just as they will Crum.
I consider Crum and Strev. to be currently on the same level, Strev. is the better runner and Crum may be the better passer based on style alone. Both of them have not developed as much as I thought they would and wouldn't consider either future starters at this point.
I predict one of Bond or Ford will make a significant int in this game. Both have been playing very well and not being targeted at all. At some point Maier is going to need to throw to those receivers and I'm thinking one of our DB's is going to jump a route.
Confidence levels of both players is increasing after playing more and I can see them baiting Maier.
Tonight is also Purolator Tackle Hunger night at the game.
Bring a tin for the Purolator bin and enter for a chance to win one of the following prizes...
- Autographed Brady Oliviera jersey
- $250 gift card for merch at the Bomber Store
- Blue Bomber team autographed football.
Winners to be announced during the 4th quarter.
This is also a "wear white" game so dress accordingly!
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 12, 2024, 04:38:30 PMI predict one of Bond or Ford will make a significant int in this game. Both have been playing very well and not being targeted at all. At some point Maier is going to need to throw to those receivers and I'm thinking one of our DB's is going to jump a route.
Confidence levels of both players is increasing after playing more and I can see them baiting Maier.
There is no Bond on our roster, there is a Terrell BondS on our roster, BondS with an S.
Quote from: dd on July 12, 2024, 05:51:45 PMThere is no Bond on our roster, there is a Terrell BondS on our roster, BondS with an S.
Pretty sure everyone knew what he meant.
I'll take flack for this but w/e: this is a (sort of but not really) must-win game.
No, it's not that objectively, but really, how horrible would it be to lose this game? Dig in deeper and show that even with a healthy Zach we can't beat a mid or lower tier team at home with a big crowd = PATHETIC.
Conversely, win and it will feel GREAT. We're back, baby. We are right back in the picture, on a 2 game win streak, and everyone will be excited about the Bombers and their chances again.
There is no middle...
Quote from: blue_or_die on July 12, 2024, 06:30:00 PMI'll take flack for this but w/e: this is a (sort of but not really) must-win game.
No, it's not that objectively, but really, how horrible would it be to lose this game? Dig in deeper and show that even with a healthy Zach we can't beat a mid or lower tier team at home with a big crowd = PATHETIC.
Conversely, win and it will feel GREAT. We're back, baby. We are right back in the picture, on a 2 game win streak, and everyone will be excited about the Bombers and their chances again.
There is no middle...
I would argue it's objectively another must-win game. The Bombers need to beat division rivals to keep pace and help their playoff chances.
And if they can win this game by more than a FG, they'll take the season series.
I think it's a must win game. Also a game that ZC8 needs to get on track.
Quote from: ModAdmin on July 12, 2024, 05:43:29 PMTonight is also Purolator Tackle Hunger night at the game.
Bring a tin for the Purolator bin and enter for a chance to win one of the following prizes...
- Autographed Brady Oliviera jersey
- $250 gift card for merch at the Bomber Store
- Blue Bomber team autographed football.
Winners to be announced during the 4th quarter.
This is also a "wear white" game so dress accordingly!
GOLD MEMBER will be going as Lamar McGriggs (fav white jersey) as the white jersey need.
Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 12, 2024, 08:51:38 PMGOLD MEMBER will be going as Lamar McGriggs (fav white jersey) as the white jersey need.
Did you know Lamar will be at the game?
Blue Bomber Alumni @BomberAlumni
Stellar lineup up! Joining us at Alumni Alley tomorrow night (south endzone 1 hr prior to kick off) @Wpg_BlueBombers
Alumni Blair Atkinson, Boyd Barrett, Chris Greaves, Chris Cvetkovic, Lamar McGriggs & Fred Reid! Be sure to stop by & say Hi! @CFL_Alumni #OnceABomberAlwaysABomber
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GSPMOW1WoAAV_wV?format=jpg&name=small)
Heading off shortly. Ya, must win to show we're back in it! Besides, I picked WPG in pickem... they have to start paying off! :D :D
Zach needs to show he's still MOP-worthy.
GO BLUE!
Quote from: gobombersgo on July 12, 2024, 08:57:31 PMDid you Lamar will be at the game?
no I did not.
He is awesome!
He already signed it. Row 1 section 211 though.
Thanks
Just flipped onto TSN before pregame. They had panel members Barker, Sanchez and Stegall talk about if they expect Zach to have a bounce back game.
The following is paraphrasing: Chez said he thinks Zach will play better but what that looks like will depend on if he trusts his line and receivers...Milt said pretty much the same...but added O line issues and receiver issues aside, Zach has been a MOP...he needs to play like one and find a way...Barker said (paraphrase) nothing he's seen to date gives him confidence Zach will play better. All 3 panelists agreed Zach has been bad so far.
I think most objective observers agree Zach hasn't been playing to a standard we've become accustomed to; IMHO the decline in his play started late last year including the WF and GC.
Hope he works his way out of whatever is affecting his play...that will be key to winning tonight and any chances we have of turning our season around.
Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 12, 2024, 10:58:06 PMJust flipped onto TSN before pregame. They had panel members Barker, Sanchez and Stegall talk about if they expect Zach to have a bounce back game.
The following is paraphrasing: Chez said he thinks Zach will play better but what that looks like will depend on if he trusts his line and receivers...Milt said pretty much the same...but added O line issues and receiver issues aside, Zach has been a MOP...he needs to play like one and find a way...Barker said (paraphrase) nothing he's seen to date gives him confidence Zach will play better. All 3 panelists agreed Zach has been bad so far.
I think most objective observers agree Zach hasn't been playing to a standard we've become accustomed to; IMHO the decline in his play started late last year including the WF and GC.
Hope he works his way out of whatever is affecting his play...that will be key to winning tonight and any chances we have of turning our season around.
Pivotal game for Zach, he either rises to the challenge and shows he still has the magic of old or he falls short and they spend the rest of the season struggling to escape the swamp they're mired in.
Quote from: Pigskin on July 12, 2024, 07:23:55 PMI think it's a must win game. Also a game that ZC8 needs to get on track.
NO MUST wins at this point of the season, but a VERY IMPORTANT game for sure to keep building momentum
NOT A GREAT START! :( Calgary coming out swinging like they are at the Calgary Stampede calf roping! :D
Ford bit hard and it cost
BA can't tackle and it cost
Just a terrible start on D
Alexander whiffed on two tackles...as if avoiding contact . Calgary oline getting to the second level to block bighill
looks like BA wants to grab ball carrier and pull him down, not wanting to hit.
Shake off those cobwebs guys and get some positive yardage on this offensive possession.
NOT a good start!!
Locked in on Woli.
RUN THE BALL
Yikes!!!
zac has to realize he has more than two recievers
Quote from: Pete on July 13, 2024, 12:47:54 AMzac has to realize he has more than two recievers
And a running back!
way to make up for the mistake Ford!
Ford is a keeper. Makes a mistake and comes back with a big play
Well now. Good pick!
Maier threw it into triple coverage.
2nd and 3 - run the ball. It's a no brainer
gave up on the run game before the game started.
seriously... should not the coach tell him here is the play, do not change it?
this is stupid.
Buck is outthinking himself. 2nd and three bring in streveler and run the d*** ball
Quote from: Pete on July 13, 2024, 12:53:59 AMBuck is outthinking himself. 2nd and three bring in streveler and run the d*** ball
I agree. Run the ball.
and I have seen the opinion that stamps are weak against the run.
Good time to pin Calgary deep.
2nd and long has been a disaster all year for Zac and the oline
We cannot cover the flat
Sergio!! Yes!
Sergio is amazing
is that medlock? Castillo does it again!
gonna be a long sweaty hot nite.....
Bighill isnt near the play
bombers need a long masrch downfield to tire out the stamps D on nite like this
Paredas kicks a nice ball. nine times out of ten right down the middle
Offense needs to start moving the ball.
okay you have to know they are going to blitz
another terrible call by the official, they need to let that play out and can overrule it after
Should be spotted where he was tackled.
I love that Demski doesn't go down on first contact. I don't love the fact that he's repeatedly fumbled the ball this season because he doesn't secure the ball after first contact.
Edit - finally 2 hands on the ball.
Mos gotta know the play was whistled dead and a challenge loses yards
What are moronic challenge! You waste a challenge to win the challenge and lose 2 yards!! It should have been an inadvertent whistle and redo 1st down vs go 2nd and 12, doubt O'Shea knew rhat
Lack of focus by Zach.
No excuse for a time count violation
Run the ball
oshea is asleep
Collaros is looking good.
Zach has the yips
Support him by running the ball. Buck gotta take off the qb hat
How TF does osh not challenge for the PI there?
refusal to run is going to cost them a winnable game.
do the coaches think this is helping zach?
Defense needs to get a two and out.
the officiating in this game is unreal
Nope!
Clear PI BY bonds. Had his arm hooked - didn't need to
2nd and 2 - does Buck run the ball?
A touchdown now would be real nice.
Wilson has had a great game
Nice pass and great catch.
Wilson!! Awesome!! I love this guy!!
Wow. Dickenson too lazy to bring in Stevens in 2nd and short ??
Maier with an ugly toss - pick 6
Nichols is having a game!
D stepping up. Finally.
Bomber D line is bringing the heat now.
Nice interception. And Maier got hammered.
JHC bighill!!???
Backyard ball mode activated
Spoke too soon about the D stepping up. :(
Quote from: Go_Big_D on July 13, 2024, 01:48:12 AMJHC bighill!!???
Yep. This year is the farewell tour. Clearly lost a step. Or two.
Massive defensive lapse!! Calgary moved the ball at will for a TD, yikes!!
Quote from: VictorRomano on July 13, 2024, 01:50:45 AMYep. This year is the farewell tour. Clearly lost a step. Or two.
...Or three....
Terrible punt and the D Is asleep
Is BA washed ?
Let's not give any more points up.
Alexander cant cut it anymore
Brutal end to the half.
wow...unbelievable!!!
Well three is better than 7.
I knew the quick 14 points was too good to be true. Defense checked out 2 minutes early that half
Quote from: Pete on July 13, 2024, 01:54:42 AMAlexander cant cut it anymore
There's 3 on defense playing a shadow of their former self aren't dominating st all, in fact ,they are struggling. Alexander has lost a step as you pointed out. Bighill has lost at least 2 steps and Eli Italy looks old out there. And Willie Jefferson does not dominate at all anymore. He's being single blocked first half and hasn't done anything. Gotta question using up big bucks in these 3. Go younger and faster and oh ya, cheaper,
The lack of focus continues - big plays given up
Playbook has been suspect as well
22 yards rushing in the first half
i wonder if its a gameplan to keep Olivera fresh for the 2nd half or maybe I'm giving Buck too much credit
Quote from: Pete on July 13, 2024, 02:10:38 AMi wonder if its a gameplan to keep Olivera fresh for the 2nd half or maybe I'm giving Buck too much credit
Down and distance. He's just following a script. They must not be showing run looks. And why would they? We're not world beaters passing the ball so far.
Not taking the wind in the 4th is questionable IMO
football gods are playing with us
Zach taking the sack was bad
Wilson kinda misjudged that ball
Zero running
Nice hit by 61 on the punt return.trucked the stampeder player like he was a kid, caused a fumble and then almost recovered it.
Calgary is running all over our defense.
Who's our middle linebacker again??
The punt return blocking isn't great
Holy Zach - what was that??
Seriously what did he see? Gotta be a wrong route
who the heck is calling these plays???
f*** Zac that was a terrible read, teams are sitting back on that deep out all year long
That throw was off the mark.
The run was working
Wow that was bad!!
Oh my gosh, Brady O can run the football, does our offensive coordinator know that!?!
Nice pick by Collaros. **** it that's stupid football!! We need better throws than that out of him
Another good run by Brady!! Duuuh, Bucky, ya think we should be running the ball a bit more instead of throwing interceptions?!
For gosh sakes if you can't play good football at least play smart football!!
Run the ball - win the game
BO is the best Bomber - use him
We are getting our chances.
That was a great kicker avoidance on that blocked Calgary punt.
Quote from: The Zipp on July 13, 2024, 02:35:50 AMRun the ball - win the game
BO is the best Bomber - use him
You'd think is new found information!! Good gash, I'd be feeding him the rock and running play action, I don't think pierce can spell PA
3rd,and 3 on your own 37 and you go for it tells me you don't respect our defense st all
Barnes makes bighill look like a pylon. Embarrassing
where is the D when they r needed!!??
Calgary gets the wind now
Krispy Kreme defence on this drive so far - soft...
game goes to OT, stamps win
I hope my pick is wrong on this game.
we are getting killed across the middle, bighill and ba just dont have it anymore
Stamps offense just gutting our defense. Tough to watch
Soft as dough
Just a lack all around - talent, effort...
BA needs to make that pick - it wasn't that difficult a catch
Ouch.
Remember when bighill used to stop quarterbacks around our goal line. Was totally washed out of the play, a non factor. Brutal.
it feels like our dline is running on fumes
pass defense is a joke
Sloppy game on both sides.
We will be very fortunate to pull this one out.
I like this Ontario Wilson kid. Making plays
Are there any Bombers fans in here? You guys are unbelievable.
Quote from: J5V on July 13, 2024, 02:52:38 AMAre there any Bombers fans in here? You guys are unbelievable.
Honestly. They realize we're winning, right?
Let's go Sergio. Give us that lead back.
Yes.
omg 3 man aint working worth crap
Shredded defence - tired. Out of place and slow.
we knew going in our dline was going to be an issue..and it is
well...game over
heat is taking its toll on our dline and our older vets Thomas running around in circles
Were not done yet. But it's gonna be tough to win this one.
Can't stop Calgary's offense.
Desperation challenge by MOS and it pays off
What a terrible series.
Wilson is money!
Wilson is having a game and half
take back everything negative have said about Wilson. What a game
What a grab! WOOOOOO!
Wilson. Just wow!!!!
What a drive!!
Bold move - love it (cause it worked )
Whew.That paid off.
Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 02:52:15 AMI like this Ontario Wilson kid. Making plays
I ll say it again, I like this Wilson kid!! Over 200 yds receiving tonight. Man did we need that big game out of him!!
We are up by four.Just what we need to win the season series. C'mon boys.
My headache is better now but my nerves are shot.
Hopefully that will do it.
wilson player of the week
The negatrons are disappointed. LOL!
H.S. They did it!!
is collaros back?
wilson was the remedy
Won the game and won the series.
3 turnovers by the defence including a pick 6. It may have still been their worst game I can't remember, 37 points given up. Maybe not even in 2023?
O. Wilson came to play. It was 1 game but he showed speed, hands, effort and toughness.
Somebody tell me why J. Johnson and Mitchell are still on the roster? J. Johnson had 1 target and 1 catch for 7 yards. He hasn't had many games under his belt but sheesh.
In case of further injuries
CJOB pre-game said Wilson was getting faster and faster at practice. It looks like he's ready to go. I think he's going to be a good one. He played with the Chargers.
Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 03:27:58 AMIn case of further injuries
You may as well line up a pylon if you don't throw to them. We also have 3 receivers on the PR now, so I think he gets bumped to the PR or outright released over the weekend.
Gauthier still a factor on ST's. Drew an illegal block penalty just before half time. Glad he's not taking reps on defence anymore.
Thomas got flattened and the Stamps had a 53 yard running play. He also got caught in the wash including a long passing play a couple of times.
Essentially he was ineffective until he made a critical sack in the last couple of minutes when Stamps were trying to make something happen and were pressing.
He needs to be taking less reps on defence. He is increasingly become more of a liability. Mills had an average of over 8 yards with a total of 131. Obviously not all on Thomas but he certainly wasn't part of stopping it either.
The Bombers needed that win, that was a ballsy call by to go for the 2 point convert, getting it gave them a huge confidence boost, similar to when Calgary converted that 3rd and 3 late in the 3rd quarter. Sure was a fun game to watch, hard on the nerves though, LoL
Quote from: S1L1K0N on July 13, 2024, 03:49:11 AMThe Bombers needed that win, that was a ballsy call by to go for the 2 point convert, getting it gave them a huge confidence boost, similar to when Calgary converted that 3rd and 3 late in the 3rd quarter. Sure was a fun game to watch, hard on the nerves though, LoL
Yeah. The 4 points or more was critical. Fun game to watch if you win and we did. Horrible game to watch when you consider how many huge mistakes we made but still overcame them. It was gut check time.
With Wilson and Lucky Whitehead in the lineup this should get interesting. ;D
Excellent crowd on a very hot and humid night. ZC8 was much better, and found a way to beat there blitz in the second half.
ZC8: 27/36 2TD, 2Int, 9.6 avg. I didn't like the throw to the end zone that was picked off with Clercius wide open on the sidelines.
D was sloppy tonight. Need to find a DE that can get some pressure. Hoping Garbutt is the answer.
Quote from: Blitzer on July 13, 2024, 03:55:15 AMWith Wilson and Lucky Whitehead in the lineup this should get interesting. ;D
I think after the game against the Riders we'll see Lawler back on the roster. Might see Garbutt ready to be our DE.
Next week we could see 1 or 2 of our PR receivers replace Johnson and Mitchell?
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 03:43:39 AMYou may as well line up a pylon if you don't throw to them. We also have 3 receivers on the PR now, so I think he gets bumped to the PR or outright released over the weekend.
Gauthier still a factor on ST's. Drew an illegal block penalty just before half time. Glad he's not taking reps on defence anymore.
Thomas got flattened and the Stamps had a 53 yard running play. He also got caught in the wash including a long passing play a couple of times.
Essentially he was ineffective until he made a critical sack in the last couple of minutes when Stamps were trying to make something happen and were pressing.
He needs to be taking less reps on defence. He is increasingly become more of a liability. Mills had an average of over 8 yards with a total of 131. Obviously not all on Thomas but he certainly wasn't part of stopping it either.
No way no how Thomas should be starting but here's the sad sad part....the guy who shouldn't be starting is the only one who registered a sack. Where oh where is the highly paid and much talked about Jefferson?? He was single blocked all night and a complete non factor out there.
Those two throws by Zach, one for the winning TD and the other for the two point convert are elite QB throws. Very few QBs have that kind of touch on the ball, especially with so much at stake. The guy has ice water running through his veins and there isn't another QB like him in the CFL. What he showed today will do a lot to boost the swagger of this offence and as we figure out what we have in the other positions we are going to be electric on offence again. Very exciting and it bodes well for our future, near and far. We needed to show we were capable of hanging 40+ points on a team and we did. We are back!
Quote from: J5V on July 13, 2024, 03:24:14 AMThe negatrons are disappointed. LOL!
Cancer is insidious, old Smokey says "only you can prevent its spread". The parasites are consuming Bomber forums from the inside, amazingly with no assistance from outside sources.
Quote from: J5V on July 13, 2024, 04:54:05 AMThose two throws by Zach, one for the winning TD and the other for the two point convert are elite QB throws. Very few QBs have that kind of touch on the ball, especially with so much at stake. The guy has ice water running through his veins and there isn't another QB like him in the CFL. What he showed today will do a lot to boost the swagger of this offence and as we figure out what we have in the other positions we are going to be electric on offence again. Very exciting and it bodes well for our future, near and far. We needed to show we were capable of hanging 40+ points on a team and we did. We are back!
Great points all around. Didn't think of it myself, but hanging 40+ points in a tea is big, and something we haven't done lately.
I'm re-watching now that I'm home, I thought those passes at the end for the td and 2 pt were good when I saw them live, so looking forward to seeing it in review.
Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 01:26:59 AMWhat are moronic challenge! You waste a challenge to win the challenge and lose 2 yards!! It should have been an inadvertent whistle and redo 1st down vs go 2nd and 12, doubt O'Shea knew rhat
There needs to be a solution to this type of play & challenge. I was there, and I knew instantly live that it was a catch.
1) The whistle went
after Demski had caught it
and gained about 5Y. The whistle did not sound immediately, that's what confused Demski and the D, and they played on as if there had been no whistle. At the very least
we should be allowed to keep the yards gained before the whistle!! Because before the whistle all players were playing live ball.
2) If you are going to spot it at the catch and rob a team because of some moronic ref, and it's challenged, then perhaps it should be an automatic 1st down. Or at the very least, the ball returns to the LoS. Or a redo of down. Something, anything to not create this insane situation where blind (or dirty) refs can rob teams of successful hitch screen plays.
3) Still, it wasn't a "waste" of a challenge because we got to
keep the challenge flag. The odds of using it twice in 1 game in the CFL these days is near 0. However, I guess we lost a TO.
This is an aggravating outcome and I bet league-wide no fan is comfortable that this can happen. Demski got robbed.
Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 02:36:57 AMI'd be feeding him the rock and running play action, I don't think pierce can spell PA
Buck: Uh, PO? No... PU? Umm... PY? PE? Drat.
Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 02:40:35 AM3rd,and 3 on your own 37 and you go for it tells me you don't respect our defense st all
It's messed up. BUT, Dickenson The Greater has been known to do mentally insane things at times, especially in the 3rd. I think he thinks he has a good feel for the momentum of a game, and when he senses a shift (like Brady starting to tear it up, us getting the go-ahead), he goes to extra lengths to staunch the flow.
It's like he thinks he's doomed if he doesn't take the chance, so why not take the chance. Kind of like the '19 WDF when he threw a completely useless challenge flag.
So I wouldn't take it personally. He does it with many times. The part I'd get upset at, is why we couldn't stop the mid-out on 3rd down. Hey, you know what,
that's the exact same play MTL won the GC with! Well past time for our D to work on shutting those down...
Did we make some mistakes? Yes we did, but show me the perfect team that never makes a mistake. It doesn't exist.
This was a massive game for us against a divisional rival that wanted it just as bad. We found a way to win. That's what great teams do. We served notice that we are back and every team in this league took notice.
Quote from: Go_Big_D on July 13, 2024, 03:23:43 AMwilson player of the week
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 03:26:47 AMO. Wilson came to play. It was 1 game but he showed speed, hands, effort and toughness.
Somebody tell me why J. Johnson and Mitchell are still on the roster? J. Johnson had 1 target and 1 catch for 7 yards. He hasn't had many games under his belt but sheesh.
Wilson didn't tear it up at first either. I recall Lawler and Bailey taking a few games also. Geroy Simon didn't catch fire until his 5th season. On the other hand some guys do light it up right away like Schoen. Physically I think Johnson has all the tools so I'd be patient.
Wilson is the real deal. If Geroy Simon and Arland Bruce could make a baby his name would be Ontaria Wilson. In fact I am thinking he could be called mini-Geroy, he's just smooth like that.
Quote from: Waffler on July 13, 2024, 02:24:25 PMWilson didn't tear it up at first either. I recall Lawler and Bailey taking a few games also. Geroy Simon didn't catch fire until his 5th season. On the other hand some guys do light it up right away like Schoen. Physically I think Johnson has all the tools so I'd be patient.
Wilson is the real deal. If Geroy Simon and Arland Bruce could make a baby his name would be Ontaria Wilson. In fact I am thinking he could be called mini-Geroy, he's just smooth like that.
I agree that it takes time for new CFL receivers to get up to speed on the Canadian game. Wilson might have shown more earlier but Collaros was nicked and missed part of game 4 and all of game 5. We reverted to smash mouth football and went more with our run game.
Johnson hasn't been on the active roster as long and as I mentioned a good chunk of that was without Collaros
His disadvantage is the other 3 receivers on the PR and the fact that Lawler may be back after next week. He may drop on the overall depth chart.
Obviously it's reasonable to believe Whitehead will become the 3rd import receiver when Lawler returns.
I re-watched the game this morning.
1. Another slow start allowing a 53 yard completion and YAC on the 1st pass followed by a TD on the opening drive.
2. Seemed to be a lot of slipping and sliding. Footwear problem adjusting to new turf?
3. Football is a game of inches and we saw that good and bad for both teams.
Zach is back. Yes he made some early mistakes but that last drive for a TD and 2 PA was elite. IIRC that started on our 12 yard line which is never an easy place to start.
Hubert looks like a talent that will become a good player. Still not enough experience but he was active and involved in his 1st start.
Even with re-watching it's difficult to see who is on the field with all the rotations. That's not a complaint, just trying to understand what we do and why in different sets. One is to keep players fresh but the strategic aspect in the game plan.
Don't think we took too many bonehead penalties but there were a few. Time count was annoying. The PI on Bonds would have been a completion any way but a mental mistake by him IMO.
Regardless he's getting better every game.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 13, 2024, 08:15:57 AMThere needs to be a solution to this type of play & challenge. I was there, and I knew instantly live that it was a catch.
1) The whistle went after Demski had caught it and gained about 5Y. The whistle did not sound immediately, that's what confused Demski and the D, and they played on as if there had been no whistle. At the very least we should be allowed to keep the yards gained before the whistle!! Because before the whistle all players were playing live ball.
2) If you are going to spot it at the catch and rob a team because of some moronic ref, and it's challenged, then perhaps it should be an automatic 1st down. Or at the very least, the ball returns to the LoS. Or a redo of down. Something, anything to not create this insane situation where blind (or dirty) refs can rob teams of successful hitch screen plays.
3) Still, it wasn't a "waste" of a challenge because we got to keep the challenge flag. The odds of using it twice in 1 game in the CFL these days is near 0. However, I guess we lost a TO.
This is an aggravating outcome and I bet league-wide no fan is comfortable that this can happen. Demski got robbed.
If MOS knew the spot would be for a loss of 2, he'd never have thrown the challenge. He had to have thought he'd get "yards gained".
We won it, didn't lose a time out. But lost 2 yards, but got the first down next play.
No harm, but it was dumb on the officials part. No reason to whistle the play dead. Let it play out, then make your call.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 13, 2024, 02:59:17 PMIf MOS knew the spot would be for a loss of 2, he'd never have thrown the challenge. He had to have thought he'd get "yards gained".
We won it, didn't lose a time out. But lost 2 yards, but got the first down next play.
No harm, but it was dumb on the officials part. No reason to whistle the play dead. Let it play out, then make your call.
O'Shea: "My emotion got the best of me.
I know the result is we're not going to get any yards after that. It's stupid on my part. I'm so angry at that point, which is not good"
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/bombers-ride-collaros-and-offence-to-second-straight-win
Quote from: Jesse on July 13, 2024, 03:02:24 PMO'Shea: "My emotion got the best of me. I know the result is we're not going to get any yards after that. It's stupid on my part. I'm so angry at that point, which is not good"
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/bombers-ride-collaros-and-offence-to-second-straight-win
OTOH, it makes an official statement to the league by challenging a clear miss by the refs. Since you win the challenge, you don't lose a timeout and you retain the ability to challenge. In this game is was the accidental contact that got us a 1st down when we needed one in the last drive.
The downside is it cost us 2 yards. It was an odd error by the refs that went against us. If we had failed to complete the next play for a 1st down, there would have been a huge problem.
I don't understand why if it was a catch, which it clearly was, that the refs whistle wouldn't have been ruled as an inadvertent whistle, which it was, and with that the bombers should have been given the option to take the play as it stands, which they'd decline, or redo the down, which they'd get to redo first down. It doesn't make sense that the officials admit a whistle was blown when it shouldn't have been and that will cost you yards—-bombers should have been given the option to replay the down because of the officials error
Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 04:25:32 PMI don't understand why if it was a catch, which it clearly was, that the refs whistle wouldn't have been ruled as an inadvertent whistle, which it was, and with that the bombers should have been given the option to take the play as it stands, which they'd decline, or redo the down, which they'd get to redo first down. It doesn't make sense that the officials admit a whistle was blown when it shouldn't have been and that will cost you yards—-bombers should have been given the option to replay the down because of the officials error
Because the defence relaxes when the whistle is blown. There are no do overs, rightly so.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 04:36:03 PMBecause the defence relaxes when the whistle is blown. There are no do overs, rightly so.
Yards gained when the whistle was blown should have been the spot...
Quote from: theaardvark on July 13, 2024, 04:47:41 PMYards gained when the whistle was blown should have been the spot...
Not as black and white as that. If the refs waived off the catch as incomplete, the whistle might have not been blown for another 1/2 or 1 second. Demski was on his knees when he caught it then had time to get up and continue running.
You'd need to do a slow motion detection to see when the pass was ruled incomplete and when the whistle was blown.
There did seem to some pause by both Demski and the defenders.
I have no problem with the final ruling the way it worked out. The issue was the refs making two errors. One being ruling the catch as incomplete and the 2nd possibly blowing the whistle early.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 13, 2024, 04:47:41 PMYards gained when the whistle was blown should have been the spot...
Exactly, the ball was advanced 5 yards when the play was whistled dead in error, so at the very least, the bombers should have gotten the ball where point of possession was when the play was whistled dead. I don't understand why they spotted it where the ball was caught if it was a completed pass, the ball should have been spotted st point of possession when the whistle went. That makes no sense.
Quote from: Jesse on July 13, 2024, 03:02:24 PMO'Shea: "My emotion got the best of me. I know the result is we're not going to get any yards after that. It's stupid on my part. I'm so angry at that point, which is not good"
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/bombers-ride-collaros-and-offence-to-second-straight-win
I thought O'shea looked a bit frazzled last night, he's usually able to keep a lid on his emotions but I guess the pressure of this season is getting through to him a bit. He's unlike Dickie who usually lets everything hang out, I laughed but felt sorry for him when he waved his hands repeatedly at the unintentional interference penalty that caused Woli to trip.
Quote from: Jesse on July 13, 2024, 03:02:24 PMO'Shea: "My emotion got the best of me. I know the result is we're not going to get any yards after that. It's stupid on my part. I'm so angry at that point, which is not good"
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/bombers-ride-collaros-and-offence-to-second-straight-win
That glare on MOS at that point, Holy....must have been the ref he was giving it to.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 13, 2024, 05:01:57 PMI thought O'shea looked a bit frazzled last night, he's usually able to keep a lid on his emotions but I guess the pressure of this season is getting through to him a bit. He's unlike Dickie who usually lets everything hang out, I laughed but felt sorry for him when he waved his hands repeatedly at the unintentional interference penalty that caused Woli to trip.
That's F'n BS he said twice LOL
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 04:57:37 PMNot as black and white as that. If the refs waived off the catch as incomplete, the whistle might have not been blown for another 1/2 or 1 second. Demski was on his knees when he caught it then had time to get up and continue running.
You'd need to do a slow motion detection to see when the pass was ruled incomplete and when the whistle was blown.
There did seem to some pause by both Demski and the defenders.
I have no problem with the final ruling the way it worked out. The issue was the refs making two errors. One being ruling the catch as incomplete and the 2nd possibly blowing the whistle early.
On the challenge, they have slow motion. The key is that the whistle means that the players "let up". Until the whistle sounds (and maybe a half second after), the players are still in "game mode".
So, and gains made UNTIL the whistle blows should be counted when the challenge was won. Same if the eye in the sky call down without a challenge. The play should freeze when the whistle blows. Choosing a ball position from before or after the whistle does not make sense.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 13, 2024, 08:15:57 AMThere needs to be a solution to this type of play & challenge. I was there, and I knew instantly live that it was a catch.
1) The whistle went after Demski had caught it and gained about 5Y. The whistle did not sound immediately, that's what confused Demski and the D, and they played on as if there had been no whistle. At the very least we should be allowed to keep the yards gained before the whistle!! Because before the whistle all players were playing live ball.
2) If you are going to spot it at the catch and rob a team because of some moronic ref, and it's challenged, then perhaps it should be an automatic 1st down. Or at the very least, the ball returns to the LoS. Or a redo of down. Something, anything to not create this insane situation where blind (or dirty) refs can rob teams of successful hitch screen plays.
3) Still, it wasn't a "waste" of a challenge because we got to keep the challenge flag. The odds of using it twice in 1 game in the CFL these days is near 0. However, I guess we lost a TO.
This is an aggravating outcome and I bet league-wide no fan is comfortable that this can happen. Demski got robbed.
Sure, but if that play wasnt challenged there's a higher probability that O'Shea would have challenged PI in the endzone.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 13, 2024, 05:43:19 PMOn the challenge, they have slow motion. The key is that the whistle means that the players "let up". Until the whistle sounds (and maybe a half second after), the players are still in "game mode".
So, and gains made UNTIL the whistle blows should be counted when the challenge was won. Same if the eye in the sky call down without a challenge. The play should freeze when the whistle blows. Choosing a ball position from before or after the whistle does not make sense.
No. It's a little like when refs determine forward momentum has been stopped even before a final whistle.
I didn't particularly pay attention to the play when I re-watched the game today. Did the ref immediately waive off the pass as incomplete? I did notice that even Demski was looking back wondering why the whistle had blown etc. etc.
We can complain all we want but the refs made an error and I understand why yards gained were not allowed.
I was definitely in the Doug Brown, Why is Wilson on the roster camp but man, glad to be wrong.
Ask and ye shall receive:
With my computer tech I can tell you exactly what happened re: Demski catch & whistle.
From the moment the ball touches Demski's hands until the moment the whistle sounds is 1.81s. That's an extremely long time for a ref to take to blow what he thinks is a clear ground-hit incompletion. I'd say refs usually blow that dead in 0.5 to 0.8s.
Demski catches the ball 2 yards behind LoS down on his knees. Has to get up. Gets up, starts accelerating into his run. The whistle sounds when Demski is 1.5Y past the LoS and running fast. No D is nearby at all.
So I was a little off on it being 5Y at the whistle (I was estimating before). Still, we got robbed of a 3.5Y gain. And the point about "it shouldn't be this way, it's not fair and doesn't make sense" still stands. There should be a solution, otherwise every behind-LoS play (like hitch screens) have this new added risk of refs robbing you with zero recourse! If you're a ref and you want to rig a game, here's a great way to do it. Sure, shoestrings are rare, but it's another tool they can add to their rigging arsenal. Not saying anyone is rigging anything (see the NFL for that), just saying they can.
Yes, there are provisions for the ref "thinking" the play is dead and taking X tenths of seconds to get the info to their lips to blow. The spot is always when the thought occurs, not when the whistle goes. But we're all used to them being pretty quick on that whistle and the difference in yardage is usually slight. I'm not sure we've seen a ref wait until the player gets back up and runs 3.5Y for almost 2s to blow the whistle before.
If the ref had been faster on the whistle, Demski would never have gotten up and we wouldn't have challenged because there would have been (clearly) no gain. So the late whistle directly cost us 1 of 2 challenges, and 2Y.
I'm ok with MOS making a statement and getting the moral victory. I was miffed too. You can't take that crap from these garbage refs. That ref could have blown it incomplete immediately, and didn't. That ref could have assumed it was complete and let CGY challenge if they didn't like it. Or not blow it dead and wait to consult with the other refs, as they often do, and call it incomplete after it all played out naturally.
Once again, I saw from my 200-level far-back/top-row seats that it was complete, with zero doubt in my mind. I'm, what, 200Y away total (do some trig math) and I can figure this out better than that ref?
I think the "fix" for this for a challenge behind the LoS when the player is in space should be a redo of down. dd mentions "inadvertent whistle", but I can't find anything about that in the rulebook (I also looked for "phantom" whistle, or crowd whistle). There can't be such a loophole where refs can rob teams of positive plays without oversight and recourse.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 06:27:59 PMNo. It's a little like when refs determine forward momentum has been stopped even before a final whistle.
I didn't particularly pay attention to the play when I re-watched the game today. Did the ref immediately waive off the pass as incomplete? I did notice that even Demski was looking back wondering why the whistle had blown etc. etc.
We can complain all we want but the refs made an error and I understand why yards gained were not allowed.
Demski gained a good 3 maybe 5 yards after the catch and the whistle was delayed a good 2 seconds. Ball should have been spotted where the 0lsy went dead after it was deemed a catch. So 2 errors were made. I don't get why command centre can't radio the ref and let him know that vs let them incorrectly spot the ball
Quote from: RebusRankin on July 13, 2024, 06:43:08 PMI was definitely in the Doug Brown, Why is Wilson on the roster camp but man, glad to be wrong.
Doug Brown questioned why Wilson was on the roster?? Thought he knew football??
Rule 10 - Replay - Article 4 - The Whistle
... With regards to replay certain aspects cannot not (sic!) be adjusted if the play has been killed by whistle and the players have stopped playing, such as a ruling on a clear recovery after a fumble, or forward advancement of a ball after an incorrect down with contact ruling. As such officials have been instructed to only sound the whistle when they are certain a play has concluded.
There's a few things here:
1. Typo error ("cannot not") in our official rulebook, yay. Actually, technically speaking this is a double negative and thus they are saying "certain aspects can be adjusted"!! According to rule as written, then, command should have given us the entire Demski gain!! Ya, that's pedantic, but I'm angry, so... (does no one proof-read this stuff?)
2. Also pedantic: the "dead and players stopped" part, that's an "and". The whistle sounded, but neither Demski nor the D who tackled him stopped or let up or anything. They played it out as they both thought it was complete (the D guy probably saw it clearly). Per the letter of the law the predicate wasn't satisfied, so the conclusion should not apply. We should have been awarded the full gain. (Yes, I understand that's not the spirit, but I'm not the idiot who used such awful and ambiguous language to write the book!)
3. The last point makes it clear what the standard is. If that ref didn't see the ball hit the turf (which he couldn't have because it in fact didn't hit it) then he should not be blowing his whistle. Cut & dried clear as day. That ref should get reprimanded and the CFL should issue an apology. What if the whole game hinged on this play in the dying seconds of the 4th?
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 02:48:25 PMZach is back. Yes he made some early mistakes but that last drive for a TD and 2 PA was elite. IIRC that started on our 12 yard line which is never an easy place to start.
Don't think we took too many bonehead penalties but there were a few. Time count was annoying. The PI on Bonds would have been a completion any way but a mental mistake by him IMO.
The final TD drive by Zach (with a ton of passing) was epic and exactly what we expect of Zach. And Buck too. Masterful adjusting to what CGY was doing all game and what they were giving us. Who here thought we'd pull that off? Not me! Feels good, man.
Dickenson The Remaining must have been thinking "oh
now Zach decides to get back to MOP form, great".
Penalty situation was massively improved and I'm proud of all the work I know they put into that. Must have been the main focus this week. The penalty yardage, minus that one a-bit-weak DPI, was virtually nil. Good job all!
Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 13, 2024, 05:10:07 PMThat glare on MOS at that point, Holy....must have been the ref he was giving it to.
Ya, that's epic. He stares him down like 3s and then they cut just as MOS starts chirping at him.
But hey, the chirping "worked" because later in the game they gave
CGY a completion that probably really did hit the turf... thanks ref man...
Quote from: gobombersgo on July 13, 2024, 06:10:02 PMSure, but if that play wasnt challenged there's a higher probability that O'Shea would have challenged PI in the endzone.
Good point. I'm not sure we've see 2 challenges by a single HC in a single game this season yet. It is a rare thing, but it will change your mindset for a later challenge to know if you'll then be out of challenges. (I don't think he wins the 2nd challenge, BTW, too weak & iffy.)
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 14, 2024, 05:44:01 AMGood point. I'm not sure we've see 2 challenges by a single HC in a single game this season yet. It is a rare thing, but it will change your mindset for a later challenge to know if you'll then be out of challenges. (I don't think he wins the 2nd challenge, BTW, too weak & iffy.)
You saw it in this game. O'Shea challenged the unintentional PI that he won.
Post game writeup by John Hodge.
https://3downnation.com/2024/07/13/winnipeg-blue-bombers-win-game-season-series-against-stampeders-13-other-thoughts/
From that article.
"For the record, Grant's contract with the Argos will pay him $84,000 in hard money this season with playtime bonuses maxing out at $92,500, per source. It's hardly a rich deal."
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 14, 2024, 04:47:08 PMPost game writeup by John Hodge.
https://3downnation.com/2024/07/13/winnipeg-blue-bombers-win-game-season-series-against-stampeders-13-other-thoughts/
From that article.
"For the record, Grant's contract with the Argos will pay him $84,000 in hard money this season with playtime bonuses maxing out at $92,500, per source. It's hardly a rich deal."
We don't know if this was another Harris issue, with Grant's injury issues, did we want a physical before signing him? And Pinball said "Yes" sight unseen? I really don't see us not signing him for a difference of $22k max, or allowing him to escape to TO where its going to cost him probably $20k more to live...
Walters said there was a chance to sign him:
"There's still a chance Bombers returner Janarion Grant will be back this year. They just need to find him. Walters said Grant has been difficult to reach, with even his agent struggling to nail down his whereabouts at times. It's not the first time this has happened, though, and the Bombers continue to see if a deal can get done.
"His agent actually shot me a note last night," Walters said. "So we'll kind of circle back and see what can or can't be done with Janarion." Grant was probably given assurances of playing time outside of returning.
Quote from: theaardvark on July 14, 2024, 07:55:57 PMWe don't know if this was another Harris issue, with Grant's injury issues, did we want a physical before signing him? And Pinball said "Yes" sight unseen? I really don't see us not signing him for a difference of $22k max, or allowing him to escape to TO where its going to cost him probably $20k more to live...
Walters said there was a chance to sign him:
"There's still a chance Bombers returner Janarion Grant will be back this year. They just need to find him. Walters said Grant has been difficult to reach, with even his agent struggling to nail down his whereabouts at times. It's not the first time this has happened, though, and the Bombers continue to see if a deal can get done.
"His agent actually shot me a note last night," Walters said. "So we'll kind of circle back and see what can or can't be done with Janarion."
Grant was probably given assurances of playing time outside of returning.
He hasn't been given any extra time for Toronto though.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 14, 2024, 04:30:37 PMYou saw it in this game. O'Shea challenged the unintentional PI that he won.
Uh, I meant up to that point! Holy smokes. And even including the MOS instance my point is using 2 is mega-rare the last long while in the CFL. Ever since they stopped allowing IC fishing the use-2 case is very rare.
Quote from: Jesse on July 14, 2024, 10:06:57 PMHe hasn't been given any extra time for Toronto though.
Every game or 2 they give him a sweep on O. Basically what we did until he got creamed.
If we could have had Grant for $84k and allowed him to run O more (as long as we didn't have to give him a signing bonus) then we made a biiiig mistake not taking him. Who cares if he was going to be injured up the wazoo again... if there's no bonus, there's no cost.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 15, 2024, 01:08:26 AMEvery game or 2 they give him a sweep on O. Basically what we did until he got creamed.
If we could have had Grant for $84k and allowed him to run O more (as long as we didn't have to give him a signing bonus) then we made a biiiig mistake not taking him. Who cares if he was going to be injured up the wazoo again... if there's no bonus, there's no cost.
I don't see a problem if vets like Grant or Jeffcoat who are aging out spend some of the season on the IR, it's the perfect situation to benefit from their high level of skill when playing as well as test out or prep. the next guy looking to steal their jobs. It makes for a smoother transition with less unknown surprises.
Quote from: Jesse on July 14, 2024, 10:06:57 PMHe hasn't been given any extra time for Toronto though.
Has he even taken a snap on offense?
Quote from: dd on July 14, 2024, 05:27:48 AMDemski gained a good 3 maybe 5 yards after the catch and the whistle was delayed a good 2 seconds. Ball should have been spotted where the 0lsy went dead after it was deemed a catch. So 2 errors were made. I don't get why command centre can't radio the ref and let him know that vs let them incorrectly spot the ball
Read post # 225 above yours. The point about when the refs think the play is dead may be slightly earlier than the whistle. The most often happens on the goal line as an example and the short yardage play eventually crosses the line. Forward progress is deemed stopped.
We can agree it's not fair, but refs make mistakes. A do over can't be in the mix IMO.The only part of the review we could win was whether it was a completed pass. I agree with how it worked out but I didn't like it either.
Quote from: Blue In BC on July 15, 2024, 01:22:14 PMWe can agree it's not fair, but refs make mistakes. A do over can't be in the mix IMO.The only part of the review we could win was whether it was a completed pass. I agree with how it worked out but I didn't like it either.
Now imagine it was the GC... If refs don't do their job and follow the
clear rules, then there needs to be recourse.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 15, 2024, 01:16:14 PMHas he even taken a snap on offense?
Uh, 2 posts up from your post?