Blue Bombers Forum

I think we escaped this weeks game without losing anyone else to injury. Banged and bruised but able to play.

OTOH, I'm not so sure Calgary might not be missing some players this week. All their RB's have really been banged up.

Oliveria is healthy, angry and ready to run over and through players. Whether Streveler starts or sees a more limited role, he probably will see the field in some fashion to pound their defence. It's a short week for a road game for the Stamps.

Calgary hasn't looked that good against the run, so we need to continue what we did this week. Perhaps not quite to that extent. A good run game helps win LOS, TOP and field position.

This game is within reach of winning. Home crowd may be the difference needed.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 07, 2024, 03:15:54 PMI think we escaped this weeks game without losing anyone else to injury. Banged and bruised but able to play.

OTOH, I'm not so sure Calgary might not be missing some players this week. All their RB's have really been banged up.

Oliveria is healthy, angry and ready to run over and through players. Whether Streveler starts or sees a more limited role, he probably will see the field in some fashion to pound their defence. It's a short week for a road game for the Stamps.

Calgary hasn't looked that good against the run, so we need to continue what we did this week. Perhaps not quite to that extent. A good run game helps win LOS, TOP and field position.

This game is within reach of winning. Home crowd may be the difference needed.

Didn't we lose Bonds, or did he end up coming back?  Brady & Strev were also pretty banged up.

We win if we don't beat ourselves. 

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 07, 2024, 03:25:58 PMWe win if we don't beat ourselves. 

As seen lastnight, Stamps are a good team. We'll have to be able to move the ball thru the air sometimes.

Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 07, 2024, 03:25:24 PMDidn't we lose Bonds, or did he end up coming back?  Brady & Strev were also pretty banged up.

Bond went off after a tackle but it appeared it might have just been a stinger. I could be wrong, but I didn't think it was serious at the time.

Yes, many others were going to need some serious ice after that game.  My initial impression was that a few will get a day of light practice or limited during the week. Neither Brady or Streveler need multiple days of practice with loads of reps.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 07, 2024, 03:15:54 PMI think we escaped this weeks game without losing anyone else to injury. Banged and bruised but able to play.

OTOH, I'm not so sure Calgary might not be missing some players this week. All their RB's have really been banged up.

Oliveria is healthy, angry and ready to run over and through players. Whether Streveler starts or sees a more limited role, he probably will see the field in some fashion to pound their defence. It's a short week for a road game for the Stamps.

Calgary hasn't looked that good against the run, so we need to continue what we did this week. Perhaps not quite to that extent. A good run game helps win LOS, TOP and field position.

This game is within reach of winning. Home crowd may be the difference needed.

Calgary is a very physical team, they shut the door on the Bomber running game just two games ago and did not allow Zach or Strev. enough time to pass. Can't duplicate the running attack used against Ottawa if Zach is starting, which he probably is.  So the Bombers will be forced to beat the Stamps with a well rounded game, combined running and passing effectively, something they have not been able to accomplish to this point in the season. My hopes are not high they come out on top unless the D can shut Maier down completely and Castillo can out kick Paredes.

Huh?

Did you not see the fourth Qtr?
The Bombers, strvlor killed. Calgary. In Calgary.

I go with the same type game plan.  Strev creates a huge problem running, and his passing was better than Collaros. All Collaros accomplished was  dump off short passes.  He missed deep throws.  Strev hit the same short passes. But he also hit a couple mid range, plus he can get the 1st downs running.  It's like. Strev takes command and makes it happen.  Collaros for the last year has been unable to tolerate the pass rush, and easily settles for the dump off almost exclusively. Not a good last two years for Collaros.

I go with Strev.  He show passion, and  Collaros shows indifference. The old saying, "light a fire under his ***" seems to apply.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 07, 2024, 05:24:42 PMCalgary is a very physical team, they shut the door on the Bomber running game just two games ago and did not allow Zach or Strev. enough time to pass. Can't duplicate the running attack used against Ottawa if Zach is starting, which he probably is.  So the Bombers will be forced to beat the Stamps with a well rounded game, combined running and passing effectively, something they have not been able to accomplish to this point in the season. My hopes are not high they come out on top unless the D can shut Maier down completely and Castillo can out kick Paredes.

Two weeks ago Oliveria was not healthy. It's a TBD as to who starts at QB. We know Streveler can run but can he be more effective as a passer if he takes most reps at QB?

Strev might have an easier week in practice after being banged up. Collaros might take the # 1 reps or he could see another week of DNP.

What will the 1st daily IR report show? Anybodies guess at this point.

Calgary's a better football club than Ottawa, so we are really going to have our hands full. No matter who starts at Qb, we have to start playing smarter football and quit taking the dumb dumb penalties. We need to play error free football to make this a close game. We take undisciplined penalties and turn the ball over, Calgary will capitalize

Quote from: dd on July 07, 2024, 08:13:51 PMCalgary's a better football club than Ottawa, so we are really going to have our hands full. No matter who starts at Qb, we have to start playing smarter football and quit taking the dumb dumb penalties. We need to play error free football to make this a close game. We take undisciplined penalties and turn the ball over, Calgary will capitalize

We lost to CGY by 3 points on the road, in overtime, after losing our starting QB that the week of practice and gameplan were set for.  Three points.  They are coming here, after giving up a huge lead to MTL and losing.  They have one more win than us.  If we win that OT, they are 1-3 and we are 2-3.

We handily beat OTT here, and we will soundly beat CGY.  Especially is Streveler is starting with a full week of #1 reps.

why not go really back in time and have streveller, brady, and augustine in at the same time?

since the ground game works, go all out.

makes sense, if defences tend to have lighter quicker players suited to stopping a mostly passing attack.... run it.

nothing more fun than watching your team pound it down the field with an unstoppable ground game.

any other old timers here?  " riggins left, riggins right, riggins up the middle."

Also...... I want to say,  thanks, being a newcomer, you people are very nice.

Quote from: markf on July 07, 2024, 10:12:22 PMwhy not go really back in time and have streveller, brady, and augustine in at the same time?

since the ground game works, go all out.

makes sense, if defences tend to have lighter quicker players suited to stopping a mostly passing attack.... run it.

nothing more fun than watching your team pound it down the field with an unstoppable ground game.

any other old timers here?  " riggins left, riggins right, riggins up the middle."

Also...... I want to say,  thanks, being a newcomer, you people are very nice.

Yah why not, if they're going that way why not get Augustine more involved, I think he only received one touch all last game.  Stamps had a lot of trouble containing Walter Fletcher when he got outside, they are vulnerable to speed around the edges.

Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 07, 2024, 03:25:24 PMDidn't we lose Bonds, or did he end up coming back?  Brady & Strev were also pretty banged up.

I didn't notice if Bonds came back, but it looked bad (enough to stay on the sidelines that game) to me.  I am doing a rewatch of H2 though, and will report back if Bonds came back.  I was curious how we'd rejig the DBs after Bonds left, I couldn't figure it out at the game (both kids were keeping me busy).

Brady's probably fine.  Strev likely has some hip problem, but doubt he'll care.  It was that hit he took that did it, then he kept aggravating it all night.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 07, 2024, 05:24:42 PMCalgary is a very physical team, they shut the door on the Bomber running game just two games ago and did not allow Zach or Strev. enough time to pass. Can't duplicate the running attack used against Ottawa if Zach is starting, which he probably is.  So the Bombers will be forced to beat the Stamps with a well rounded game, combined running and passing effectively, something they have not been able to accomplish to this point in the season. My hopes are not high they come out on top unless the D can shut Maier down completely and Castillo can out kick Paredes.

Very well said. Montreal turned the tables on Calgary in the second half when they made adjustments and upped their intensity. We're at home which will help and we'll need the crowd to be into it and loud. We're going to need a good performance from offense, defense, and special teams. I think our D can give Maier a tough time and Castillo is definitely on his game. I'm looking forward to seeing how well we prepare for this one. Buck, Jordan, and Miller need to craft a beauty.

I don't know if we we re there yet to beat Calgary, we need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with dumb penalties and if we do we re at home and the crowd will really help to hopefully pull off another win

Why is CGY suddenly super physical and punishing?  They've been soft for so many years now.  CGY morale has been in the toilet.  What changed this year?  Is there new coaching?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 08, 2024, 04:33:22 AMWhy is CGY suddenly super physical and punishing?  They've been soft for so many years now.  CGY morale has been in the toilet.  What changed this year?  Is there new coaching?

They played a very good first half against the Als. We're going to need to match their intensity from the opening kickoff.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 08, 2024, 04:33:22 AMWhy is CGY suddenly super physical and punishing?  They've been soft for so many years now.  CGY morale has been in the toilet.  What changed this year?  Is there new coaching?

Dickenson and Maier's jobs are on the line, make some serious improvements/alterations or be replaced.  Stamps had a few years of lag but they now seem to be ascending again, I think with their physicality they have a very good chance of throwing VA off his game and upsetting BC in the playoffs if they meet.  Where Wpg. fits in that equation is TBD.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 08, 2024, 06:29:59 AMDickenson and Maier's jobs are on the line, make some serious improvements/alterations or be replaced.

Maier, sure.  Dickenson The Remaining... nah.  He's Huffnagel's BFF and the weird GM/HC co-mingling thing there means he's staying put for years to come.  At worst Dave will move upstairs 100% and someone else gets the HC full-time.

Dickenson just got his Canadian citizenship. He's here for the long haul and I think he'll be a Stamp until he retires. Yeah, the Canadian mafia guy. Turns out he was just envious.  If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Quote from: Waffler on July 08, 2024, 01:24:17 PMDickenson just got his Canadian citizenship. He's here for the long haul and I think he'll be a Stamp until he retires. Yeah, the Canadian mafia guy. Turns out he was just envious.  If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

He's lived and worked here for the better part of 30 years, he was never anti-Canadian, lol.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 08, 2024, 03:27:00 AMI didn't notice if Bonds came back, but it looked bad (enough to stay on the sidelines that game) to me.  I am doing a rewatch of H2 though, and will report back if Bonds came back.  I was curious how we'd rejig the DBs after Bonds left, I couldn't figure it out at the game (both kids were keeping me busy).

Brady's probably fine.  Strev likely has some hip problem, but doubt he'll care.  It was that hit he took that did it, then he kept aggravating it all night.

Just going off fuzzy memory, but didn't Griffin take his spot?

Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 08, 2024, 02:02:48 PMJust going off fuzzy memory, but didn't Griffin take his spot?

He was our only back-up in the secondary, so I guess so.

Quote from: Jesse on July 08, 2024, 02:12:09 PMHe was our only back-up in the secondary, so I guess so.

I'm not sure if Alexander moved up and Hallett went to safety on some sets? But yes, Griffin was on the field for some defensive plays.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 02:13:33 PMI'm not sure if Alexander moved up and Hallett went to safety on some sets? But yes, Griffin was on the field for some defensive plays.

That's fair. They do that often as well (It's not a strong strategy, imo. But what do I know?).

Will be an interesting practices today. Will ZC8 throw today? Is lucky in shape? Will Bonds, Clercius, Bryant, Strev17, and BO20 practice today, all nicked on Friday night.

Quote from: Pigskin on July 08, 2024, 03:41:31 PMWill be an interesting practices today. Will ZC8 throw today? Is lucky in shape? Will Bonds, Clercius, Bryant, Strev17, and BO20 practice today, all nicked on Friday night.

Collaros: If he's healthy, he plays and starts. I'm not sure if he is healthy but the daily IR report will tell us.

Bonds: As I mentioned I thought it was a stinger. OTOH, it looked similar to the play the caused Nichols to miss a game.

Clercius: Didn't notice him getting hurt but he played well. 3 receiver additions to PR could result in a change

Bryant: He's an iron man and he may not practice in full this week but he'll play.

BO20: Also didn't notice him getting nicked per se. But he was angry missing an earlier game. He'll play if allowed.

Strev: He has a LB mentality somewhat like Dunigan when he played. I think he'll play and in fact he may need to start depending on what's up with Collaros.

I expect some roster movement but not all due to injury status from last week. Just about anything might happen within the receivers group.

Obviously a change already on the DL.

I think Griffin comes in on passing downs when we only have 3 DL...

Quote from: theaardvark on July 08, 2024, 04:37:50 PMI think Griffin comes in on passing downs when we only have 3 DL...

Ok but did that mean Alexander moved up and Hallett at safety when bonds was out?

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 04:40:16 PMOk but did that mean Alexander moved up and Hallett at safety when bonds was out?

Or do they play 2 FS?

From DT:

Lucky W is there wearing 13
Stanley Bryant and ELi taking the day off
Zach is back
Cadwallader not practicing
BO reduced workload today
Myron Mitchell in fro Josh Johnson
Lucky Ogbevoen getting reps in Fayads spot

Quote from: The Zipp on July 08, 2024, 05:08:45 PMFrom DT:

Lucky W is there wearing 13
Stanley Bryant and ELi taking the day off
Zach is back
Cadwallader not practicing
BO reduced workload today
Myron Mitchell in fro Josh Johnson
Lucky Ogbevoen getting reps in Fayads spot

Ogbevoen is nearly 30 lbs lighter than Fayad. If he's added to the AR he'd replace a Canadian not an import in the ratio. I can't imagine he'd be used as a starting DE!!!!  Technically we could play an import less if we add a global but that's not the norm. Neither is starting 10 Canadians.

Did you see Garbutt getting reps at DE?

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 05:13:55 PMOgbevoen is nearly 30 lbs lighter than Fayad. If he's added to the AR he'd replace a Canadian not an import in the ratio. I can't imagine he'd be used as a starting DE!!!! 

Did you see Garbutt getting reps at DE?

I wish I was there...just going by twitter

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 05:13:55 PMOgbevoen is nearly 30 lbs lighter than Fayad. If he's added to the AR he'd replace a Canadian not an import in the ratio. I can't imagine he'd be used as a starting DE!!!!  Technically we could play an import less if we add a global but that's not the norm. Neither is starting 10 Canadians.

Did you see Garbutt getting reps at DE?

So many people here love the ratio! Maybe we'll start 11 Canadians on Friday!  :D

I wonder if the sticking point was that Lucky can't get any 7's (Parker, Streveler, Murphy), so he's Lucky 13. 

Guessing it was a work VISA snafu, when you don't have a job, not sure how long they stay valid. 

Starting on the PR, i can see a promotion to AR quickly once he's had a couple practices to get up to speed.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 08, 2024, 05:35:55 PMI wonder if the sticking point was that Lucky can't get any 7's (Parker, Streveler, Murphy), so he's Lucky 13. 

Guessing it was a work VISA snafu, when you don't have a job, not sure how long they stay valid. 

Starting on the PR, i can see a promotion to AR quickly once he's had a couple practices to get up to speed.

It will be interesting to see how quickly Whitehead gets on the AR. He could just replace Mitchell this week as the K/O returner and back up receiver.

It starts with whether Clercius can't start and / or what the plan for the other 2 receivers on the PR looks like.

Parker's injury was not clear other than going to miss a lot of time. He may not play this season so he might be willing to give up his number.

Both are only signed for 2024 at the moment, so it's an interesting question. I like 13 anyway ( my birthday ).

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on July 08, 2024, 05:28:06 PMSo many people here love the ratio! Maybe we'll start 11 Canadians on Friday!  :D

You're not Canadian if you hate the ratio.  BC started an all Canadian linebacking corps last game.  Rotating two Canadian Dlinemen and have a good safety, whose backup is going to be just as good.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 05:42:44 PMIt will be interesting to see how quickly Whitehead gets on the AR. He could just replace Mitchell this week as the K/O returner and back up receiver.

It starts with whether Clercius can't start and / or what the plan for the other 2 receivers on the PR looks like.

Parker's injury was not clear other than going to miss a lot of time. He may not play this season so he might be willing to give up his number.

Both are only signed for 2024 at the moment, so it's an interesting question. I like 13 anyway ( my birthday ).

I think if Lucky can show he's in great shape and knows what he's doing he'll be put in the lineup quickly, possibly this week.  If Zach is starting he'll need all the experienced receivers he can get.

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on July 08, 2024, 05:57:18 PMYou're not Canadian if you hate the ratio.  BC started an all Canadian linebacking corps last game.  Rotating two Canadian Dlinemen and have a good safety, whose backup is going to be just as good.

I'm Canadian and I hate the ratio. It's form of discrimination whether you admit it or not.  I'm all for Canadians doing well. Having a ratio to prevent others that may be better players not be included, is just not right.

You might note that the ratio includes global players on both the AR and PR. That is at the cost of Canadian players. It has nothing to do with whether they are better than either imports or Canadians.

Just another reason to hate the ratio.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 06:44:53 PMI'm Canadian and I hate the ratio. It's form of discrimination whether you admit it or not.  I'm all for Canadians doing well. Having a ratio to prevent others that may be better players not be included, is just not right.

You might note that the ratio includes global players on both the AR and PR. That is at the cost of Canadian players. It has nothing to do with whether they are better than either imports or Canadians.

Just another reason to hate the ratio.

It is...?

So, ratio is discrimination against Americans in favour of Canadians, and the Global designation discriminates against Canadians in favour of international players?

Or, is it just a rule to ensure continued development of players in Canada, and the USports brand? (Still think that is the dumbest name possible for Canadian University Sports.CUSports would be better. CanU sports.

Ratio makes the game more interesting, give a draft structure that keeps parity, makes fielding a roster and managing it on field a different level.  Reduces the haves/have nots a bit, and builds some continuity.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 08, 2024, 06:54:27 PMIt is...?

Discrimination is discrimination whether it's in the direction you want or not.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 08, 2024, 07:48:54 PMSo, ratio is discrimination against Americans in favour of Canadians, and the Global designation discriminates against Canadians in favour of international players?

Or, is it just a rule to ensure continued development of players in Canada, and the USports brand? (Still think that is the dumbest name possible for Canadian University Sports.CUSports would be better. CanU sports.

Ratio makes the game more interesting, give a draft structure that keeps parity, makes fielding a roster and managing it on field a different level.  Reduces the haves/have nots a bit, and builds some continuity.

Hockey, baseball and basketball don't have ratios. I don't think most of fans at games can name all the Canadians on the roster. I can. You might but that isn't generally true.

I cheer for players on the roster whether they are from Winnipeg or Alabama or beyond.

Fans cheer for the stars on a team. If they are Canadian all the better.

Don't think they are concerned that Lawler, Schoen, Bighill, Bryant, Nichols, Streveler or Collaros are not Canadian.

They are concerned when a given player is not good enough to be on the team or starting.

Sure it makes the game more interesting because of the mandates but that's an artificial situation.

There never used to be 4 extra DI's on rosters either. 

So where do you draw the line? Does the quality of the game go down if you eliminate more Americans?  Bombers have better Canadian depth than most teams.

In spite of that we've heard posters talk about Thomas, Kolo, Kramdi shouldn't be starting. In fairness there have been comments that Alexander, Lofton, Bighill shouldn't be starting either.

Keep in mind that the roster was 32 players long ago with 15 imports and 17 Canadians. Many of the imports played both ways and seldom came off the field.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 08:06:31 PMDiscrimination is discrimination whether it's in the direction you want or not.

Hell of a job elaborating.

Dailey IR report shows Bryant, Eli and Oliveria as DNP. I only saw Bryant liming during the game but I expect we'll see them all play unless there is a risk of further injury.

There was no info about Bonds not practising, which could be a good sign it was just a stinger. Maybe somebody at practice can address that issue.

Collaros is back if there is no problems after doing so today.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 08:20:23 PMHockey, baseball and basketball don't have ratios. I don't think most of fans at games can name all the Canadians on the roster. I can. You might but that isn't generally true.

I cheer for players on the roster whether they are from Winnipeg or Alabama or beyond.

Fans cheer for the stars on a team. If they are Canadian all the better.

Don't think they are concerned that Lawler, Schoen, Bighill, Bryant, Nichols, Streveler or Collaros are not Canadian.

They are concerned when a given player is not good enough to be on the team or starting.

Sure it makes the game more interesting because of the mandates but that's an artificial situation.

There never used to be 4 extra DI's on rosters either. 

So where do you draw the line? Does the quality of the game go down if you eliminate more Americans?  Bombers have better Canadian depth than most teams.

In spite of that we've heard posters talk about Thomas, Kolo, Kramdi shouldn't be starting. In fairness there have been comments that Alexander, Lofton, Bighill shouldn't be starting either.

Keep in mind that the roster was 32 players long ago with 15 imports and 17 Canadians. Many of the imports played both ways and seldom came off the field.

Pretty sure most junior hockey leagues have very strict import rules.  Most European leagues as well. 

https://thejuniorhockeynews.com/the-import-player-rule-part-one-understanding-the-basics/

NHL, NFL, NBA or MLB don't, but I'm sure that many development leagues have restrictions.

All to support the development of local talent.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 06:44:53 PMI'm Canadian and I hate the ratio. It's form of discrimination whether you admit it or not.  I'm all for Canadians doing well. Having a ratio to prevent others that may be better players not be included, is just not right.

You might note that the ratio includes global players on both the AR and PR. That is at the cost of Canadian players. It has nothing to do with whether they are better than either imports or Canadians.

Just another reason to hate the ratio.

Your opinion on the ratio is a wee bit over the top imo. 

It's what makes our league unique and Canadian. It provides a great career for many Canadians.  It creates community. 

CFL football has a tremendous history and the hate on the ratio is essentially hating the league and the legacy of this great sports organization.  The CFL is much more than just a sport, it's a part of our culture.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 08:20:23 PMHockey, baseball and basketball don't have ratios. I don't think most of fans at games can name all the Canadians on the roster. I can. You might but that isn't generally true.

I cheer for players on the roster whether they are from Winnipeg or Alabama or beyond.

Fans cheer for the stars on a team. If they are Canadian all the better.

Don't think they are concerned that Lawler, Schoen, Bighill, Bryant, Nichols, Streveler or Collaros are not Canadian.

They are concerned when a given player is not good enough to be on the team or starting.

Sure it makes the game more interesting because of the mandates but that's an artificial situation.

There never used to be 4 extra DI's on rosters either. 

So where do you draw the line? Does the quality of the game go down if you eliminate more Americans?  Bombers have better Canadian depth than most teams.

In spite of that we've heard posters talk about Thomas, Kolo, Kramdi shouldn't be starting. In fairness there have been comments that Alexander, Lofton, Bighill shouldn't be starting either.

Keep in mind that the roster was 32 players long ago with 15 imports and 17 Canadians. Many of the imports played both ways and seldom came off the field.

"Thomas, Kolo, Kramdi shouldn't be starting"

Shouldn't be starting.... makes zero sense imo unless I am not interpreting you post correctly?  This isn't fantasy land.  This is CFL football and they should be starting as they are all the best Canadians we have at those positions.  All decent players.  Ratio is here to stay.

I don't believe the Canadian talent is an issue across the league, I strongly believe that talent is only getting better and contributes to each teams success and entertainment value.

Now back to the topic of the thread...

Not too concerned about our injuries at this time.  Happy to see no report on Bonds.  BO took a shot on the upper body (big hit), likely hurt his shoulder there.  Just hope these injuries are minor and will heal.  Would hate to have these players nicked all year.

Paul Friesen
@friesensunmedia
It's Lucky 13 at Blue #Bombers practice. Whitehead's new number at REC.  Even luckier 8: QB Zach Collaros back at the controls.
10:01 AM · Jul 8, 2024
·

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 08, 2024, 09:48:08 PMYour opinion on the ratio is a wee bit over the top imo. 

It's what makes our league unique and Canadian. It provides a great career for many Canadians.  It creates community. 

CFL football has a tremendous history and the hate on the ratio is essentially hating the league and the legacy of this great sports organization.  The CFL is much more than just a sport, it's a part of our culture."Thomas, Kolo, Kramdi shouldn't be starting"

Shouldn't be starting.... makes zero sense.  This isn't fantasy land.  This is CFL football and they should be starting as they are all the best Canadians we have at those positions.  All decent players.  Ratio is here to stay.

Now back to the topic of the thread...

Not too concerned about our injuries at this time.  Happy to see no report on Bonds.  BO took a shot on the upper body (big hit), likely hurt his shoulder there.  Just hope these injuries are minor and will heal.  Would hate to have these players nicked all year.

Well when another poster suggests a difference of opinion makes me non Canadian then I'm going to challenge that comment.

I haven't specifically said that Thomas, Kolo or Kramdi shouldn't be starting. However, I have questioned whether that was our best option. There are several others that have suggested others should be starting in front of them.

Saying they are the best Canadians we have at those positions is not a primary reason for them to start. The scouting didn't do a good job to bring in imports to compete for those positions.

There was zero doubt that those players were going to start before TC started.

Now I can't blame those 3 directly for our current record. I would point out that Thomas had a knock down but had no impact on pressuring the QB or making DT's. He wasn't the only one but our DL was not effective.

Kramdi has been burned seriously several times.  We don't have the luxury of film or know who was responsible for what on each play. Even the best get burned at times. However, I'm not seeing what we saw when we had Leggett or Maston always " making " plays.

You and I have had our conversational battles over the years. You refuse to see anything negative about the team. The rules make the game unique. The ratio is something only some die hard fans care about.

Try being a little less bias and look at the reality. Bombers had to start Hurl because we needed a 7th Canadian at the time. Obviously years ago, but that's the point.

Next time you go to a game, ask 3 fans sitting next to you what they think. Ask them if they can name 15 Canadians on the roster. Let me know what they say.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 08, 2024, 09:43:40 PMPretty sure most junior hockey leagues have very strict import rules.  Most European leagues as well. 

https://thejuniorhockeynews.com/the-import-player-rule-part-one-understanding-the-basics/

NHL, NFL, NBA or MLB don't, but I'm sure that many development leagues have restrictions.

All to support the development of local talent.

Then why does the CFL need what the other pro sports played in Canada don't?  I don't watch much hockey but how many Canadian players are on the Jets?

I don't care if we start 20 Canadians if we're winning. This is not to say we'd be winning if we were only starting 7 either. some our imports are injured or not ready for prime time.

I wonder how many posters that are pro ratio would complain if ratio was changed to eliminate the DI's and add 4 more Canadians.  How can you develop more Canadians if we continue to find ways to eliminate roster spots for one reason or another.

The ratio has been fluid over the past 50 years. Rosters have increased and we don't see too many two way players anymore.

The recent rule about creating Nationalized Canadians with a new designation for veteran imports is just another way around the ratio. Do pro ratio folks like that
change?

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 10:58:31 PMWell when another poster suggests a difference of opinion makes me non Canadian then I'm going to challenge that comment.

I haven't specifically said that Thomas, Kolo or Kramdi shouldn't be starting. However, I have questioned whether that was our best option. There are several others that have suggested others should be starting in front of them.

Saying they are the best Canadians we have at those positions is not a primary reason for them to start. The scouting didn't do a good job to bring in imports to compete for those positions.

There was zero doubt that those players were going to start before TC started.

Now I can't blame those 3 directly for our current record. I would point out that Thomas had a knock down but had no impact on pressuring the QB or making DT's. He wasn't the only one but our DL was not effective.

Kramdi has been burned seriously several times.  We don't have the luxury of film or know who was responsible for what on each play. Even the best get burned at times. However, I'm not seeing what we saw when we had Leggett or Maston always " making " plays.

You and I have had our conversational battles over the years. You refuse to see anything negative about the team. The rules make the game unique. The ratio is something only some die hard fans care about.

Try being a little less bias and look at the reality. Bombers had to start Hurl because we needed a 7th Canadian at the time. Obviously years ago, but that's the point.

Next time you go to a game, ask 3 fans sitting next to you what they think. Ask them if they can name 15 Canadians on the roster. Let me know what they say.

Would would you start in front of the three players? What other Canadians would you rotate in? I believe these three are our best option at the moment.  I do value your opinion and knowledge as you have a deep understanding of the rules, players, game in general.

Starting good Canadian players is always the goal of any CFL club.  The best teams often have the best Canadian depth.  I disagree it's a scouting issue.  To replace these starting Canadians you need to be patient develop players, draft well or trade for Canadian vets.  Yes we could have brought in imports at these positions but then other positions would need Canadians to step up.  Not as simple or as linear of a process as you make it out to be.

Kramdi has got burnt but has shown promise and is developing.  I think it will be worth a few bumps in the road.  Kramdi has played poorly, average and very well in his time here.  The consistency in his game is what is missing.  He isn't and likely never will be a huge maker.  I see the promise of a good steady player.  Thomas has been nothing but extremely consistent and reliable.  He is at the tail end of a good career. He shows flashes of making big plays.  Less as he ages.  Kolo I know less about and won't comment too much.  Reliable and consistent enough to start imo.  Likely a long term Bomber and I am happy with that.

There is no bias here in term of this discussion.  We are not talking about the club we are talking about the league and the ratio.  It's my opinion that the ratio is a critical part of it.  Bringing up Hurl has nothing to do with this conversation.  Bringing up a player that under preformed years ago brings nothing to the discussion.

I am not sure what a survey of fans would result in terms of their knowledge of the Canadian talent.  I would he interested in seeing those results (larger sample).  Asking 15 people at a game would mean nothing.  The sample size would be insufficient.  I don't see what that survey has to do with the ratio debate.  Players are recognized by many factors including their longevity with the team, the position they play, their success / star power and how much press / media time they get (and a bunch of other factors I'm missing).  I believe many hard core CFL fans could name a bunch of Canadians on each of the leagues teams.  I would be bad at that game because of my poor memory but I do play attention on TV and to programs to see where all the players are from, years in league, etc.

I am supportive on how the rosters are managed today and strongly believe the Canadian talent is critical to this great league.  It's fine you don't support it but I believe you are under valuing the contributions of the Canadian members throughout the league and it's impact on this great country.

My opinion on globals is positive as I have liked the talent they have brought in.  I like how it gives lesser know latent from other countries a shot to play pro ball.  I am ok with how the rosters are managed today and would like to ensure spots for Canadian players are always a part of this league.  However, I haven't liked some of the changes to roster management has created very complicated rules that even some clubs have voiced their opinion about.  I generally prefered the way rosters were managed years ago, was just more simple and easy to understand.

Saying I refuse to see anything negative about the team is not true.  I have been on here for many years and have debating the good, bad and ugly about this club for as long as I can remember.  I have a track record of support the current core of players, coaches and management for a very long time.  I have liked what I see over our mini dynasty run and still do.  When I don't like what I see I'll have just as strong opinion.

The CFL can't be compared to other major league.  It's uniquely Canadian and so much smaller.  It's always had Canadian talent and always will.  Makes the league richer and great.

The league is popular, has a good TV deal and some clubs have nice facilities.  I see these as key issues, ensuring the next gen supports the league, our TV revenue remains strong and we try to continue build new venues.  I would like to see our weaker markets improved.  I don't see the ratio impacting any of these things.
 

I see the Stamps had injuries to both their healthy RB's. As a result they signed Jamal Morrow. He's not going to be game ready and the Stamps also take a hit on rotation at RB and returner.

Can't hurt our run defence. By default that should improve our ability to pressure Maier and allow LB's to be more active in pass defence. It's not 100% certain that neither of the Stamps RB's can't play but adding in Morrow suggests there is an issue.

It may change by game time but transactions show Samson added to our AR. I wasn't expecting that so we'll see what his role is or whether a Canadian comes off Schmekel perhaps?

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 09, 2024, 12:25:00 AMWould would you start in front of the three players? What other Canadians would you rotate in? I believe these three are our best option at the moment.  I do value your opinion and knowledge as you have a deep understanding of the rules, players, game in general.

Starting good Canadian players is always the goal of any CFL club.  The best teams often have the best Canadian depth.  I disagree it's a scouting issue.  To replace these starting Canadians you need to be patient develop players, draft well or trade for Canadian vets.  Yes we could have brought in imports at these positions but then other positions would need Canadians to step up.  Not as simple or as linear of a process as you make it out to be.

Kramdi has got burnt but has shown promise and is developing.  I think it will be worth a few bumps in the road.  Kramdi has played poorly, average and very well in his time here.  The consistency in his game is what is missing.  He isn't and likely never will be a huge maker.  I see the promise of a good steady player.  Thomas has been nothing but extremely consistent and reliable.  He is at the tail end of a good career. He shows flashes of making big plays.  Less as he ages.  Kolo I know less about and won't comment too much.  Reliable and consistent enough to start imo.  Likely a long term Bomber and I am happy with that.

There is no bias here in term of this discussion.  We are not talking about the club we are talking about the league and the ratio.  It's my opinion that the ratio is a critical part of it.  Bringing up Hurl has nothing to do with this conversation.  Bringing up a player that under preformed years ago brings nothing to the discussion.

I am not sure what a survey of fans would result in terms of their knowledge of the Canadian talent.  I would he interested in seeing those results (larger sample).  Asking 15 people at a game would mean nothing.  The sample size would be insufficient.  I don't see what that survey has to do with the ratio debate.  Players are recognized by many factors including their longevity with the team, the position they play, their success / star power and how much press / media time they get (and a bunch of other factors I'm missing).  I believe many hard core CFL fans could name a bunch of Canadians on each of the leagues teams.  I would be bad at that game because of my poor memory but I do play attention on TV and to programs to see where all the players are from, years in league, etc.

I am supportive on how the rosters are managed today and strongly believe the Canadian talent is critical to this great league.  It's fine you don't support it but I believe you are under valuing the contributions of the Canadian members throughout the league and it's impact on this great country.

My opinion on globals is positive as I have liked the talent they have brought in.  I like how it gives lesser know latent from other countries a shot to play pro ball.  I am ok with how the rosters are managed today and would like to ensure spots for Canadian players are always a part of this league.  However, I haven't liked some of the changes to roster management has created very complicated rules that even some clubs have voiced their opinion about.  I generally prefered the way rosters were managed years ago, was just more simple and easy to understand.

Saying I refuse to see anything negative about the team is not true.  I have been on here for many years and have debating the good, bad and ugly about this club for as long as I can remember.  I have a track record of support the current core of players, coaches and management for a very long time.  I have liked what I see over our mini dynasty run and still do.  When I don't like what I see I'll have just as strong opinion.

The CFL can't be compared to other major league.  It's uniquely Canadian and so much smaller.  It's always had Canadian talent and always will.  Makes the league richer and great.

The league is popular, has a good TV deal and some clubs have nice facilities.  I see these as key issues, ensuring the next gen supports the league, our TV revenue remains strong and we try to continue build new venues.  I would like to see our weaker markets improved.  I don't see the ratio impacting any of these things.
 

Well that's a lot of questions. First of al wel aren't required to start 10 Canadians so it's not just about starting our best Canadians. Part of it is we knew we were losing talent on defence on the DL in particular. We went into TC with the knowledge that we could start an import. The same could be said about SAM as well.

Obviously the plan was for Lawson to get the bulk of reps as the Canadian DT  and injuries hurt is with the rookie import recruits. Thomas getting this many reps is not useful and it's hurting the defence.

It seems Samson got moved to the AR but I don't get to see him in practice and have no idea whether he'll see some of the reps Thomas is getting.

I'd give serious thought to playing both Woods and Adams inside taking away as many of Thomas's reps as possible. Actually I'm not sure how many reps Thomas is getting. It doesn't take long to read posts as far back as last year saying we shouldn't be starting Thomas.

In theory we could move Ford to SAM with Kramdi as the back up. Or it could be Griffith as a choice at SAM or taking over at CB if Ford moves.  Realistically we'll have a different option if and when Parker returns to the AR. We spent TC and pre season using Cole at SAM. Did anyone else even get a look?

In the seasons we've had global players, most decent ones are kickers. The others are cannon fodder. We have 2 of the 3 on the PR that haven't seen a live regular game snap. They were given PR spots because they were the only 2 drafted.

Bombers have 1 on the AR and 3 on the PR. If you want ratio for Canadian development then get rid of those spots held by globals and add 4 more Canadians.

Note: That globals haven't been able to displace either a Canadian or Import as a starter. Global punter is a free card on the bingo board since we have to roster one.

Obviously a larger sample of opinions would be of value. My suggestion was just to prove a point. Many fans go to the game for entertainment. It's a live event so I'm not sure that those same fans watch every away game or the majority of other CFL games.

It's a small test, nothing lost by asking 3 random fans sitting next to you.

I think I asked you last year if you could name all the Canadians on the roster without looking it up?

Continued on the next post.

Part 2.

I already mentioned that special roster spots are created for globals at the expense of Canadians. The 2 normal spots on the PR are " extra " spaces. However that could just as easily be added for 2 more Canadians.

I don't know if you've noticed, but there are 3 global players on the PR and only 3 Canadians and 6 Americans. If the addition of Samson to the AR sticks then there are only 2 Canadians on the PR.

We've only got 3 Canadians on the 6 game IR and Noah Hallett has only ever played about 2 games. So it's not injuries that cause this imbalance.

Samson is a 2024 rookie and the other Canadians are a LB and a DB. That's not exactly a succession plan or choice to start a different Canadian at DT. It comes down to needing that to fall to an import. It wasn't difficult to know this would / could be an issue this season.

If you can create 2 spaces for global specific on the PR then certainly we could " force " a better split to have more Canadians on the PR than current. Two of the current globals on the PR have not seen the field in 5 games. Karamoko has has limited reps in game situations.

If teams can find 2 or 3 more Canadians that would be about 30 more jobs for Canadians in development mode.

I'd start a modification of the ratio by eliminating all global spots and switching them to Canadian designations. The 2nd thing I'd do is eliminate the Nationalized American.

While I don't like or agree with the ratio, all these extra designations are in opposition to trying to develop more Canadians.

BTW. Every new CBA there is an effort by the league to reduce the number of Canadians in some fashion.

Is it really an issue, we have traditionally gone with 6 cdns on offence. 3 olineman, rb, 2 receivers. Why we have to continually try to force the 7th to be a dt is beyond me. We spend a lot of our draft picks on this position as well. It would seem to be more easier and cheaper to find a cdn safety. I don't think there would be a drop off to insert Hallet over Alexander. Actually there is no need as we start a cdn db (Ford) and at LB (Kramdl) My issue is the continued stubbornness of having a cdn dt, or even a cdn offensive lineman just because we've always done that.

https://3downnation.com/2024/07/08/calgary-stampeders-sign-former-riders-rb-jamal-morrow-sources/

Stamps RB situation is a big advantage for us.  Our run game is solid and there's will be a big question mark.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 02:25:46 AMWell that's a lot of questions. First of al wel aren't required to start 10 Canadians so it's not just about starting our best Canadians. Part of it is we knew we were losing talent on defence on the DL in particular. We went into TC with the knowledge that we could start an import. The same could be said about SAM as well.

Obviously the plan was for Lawson to get the bulk of reps as the Canadian DT  and injuries hurt is with the rookie import recruits. Thomas getting this many reps is not useful and it's hurting the defence.

It seems Samson got moved to the AR but I don't get to see him in practice and have no idea whether he'll see some of the reps Thomas is getting.

I'd give serious thought to playing both Woods and Adams inside taking away as many of Thomas's reps as possible. Actually I'm not sure how many reps Thomas is getting. It doesn't take long to read posts as far back as last year saying we shouldn't be starting Thomas.

In theory we could move Ford to SAM with Kramdi as the back up. Or it could be Griffith as a choice at SAM or taking over at CB if Ford moves.  Realistically we'll have a different option if and when Parker returns to the AR. We spent TC and pre season using Cole at SAM. Did anyone else even get a look?

In the seasons we've had global players, most decent ones are kickers. The others are cannon fodder. We have 2 of the 3 on the PR that haven't seen a live regular game snap. They were given PR spots because they were the only 2 drafted.

Bombers have 1 on the AR and 3 on the PR. If you want ratio for Canadian development then get rid of those spots held by globals and add 4 more Canadians.

Note: That globals haven't been able to displace either a Canadian or Import as a starter. Global punter is a free card on the bingo board since we have to roster one.

Obviously a larger sample of opinions would be of value. My suggestion was just to prove a point. Many fans go to the game for entertainment. It's a live event so I'm not sure that those same fans watch every away game or the majority of other CFL games.

It's a small test, nothing lost by asking 3 random fans sitting next to you.

I think I asked you last year if you could name all the Canadians on the roster without looking it up?

Continued on the next post.

I don't agree with limiting Thomas's reps.  Big fan of rotation but Thomas is good against the run (north/south).  I do like Woods and Adams, maybe by mid season get them more reps.  For now I like what they are doing for rotation.  Agree about Lawson, he sure was a key cog in our plans.
I wouldn't replace Kramdi with the options you suggest.  Ford needs to learn his spot not be swapped.  Griffin is too raw to know what we got and is suitable for rotation at DB like they have been to get his feet wet.

Parker coming back will open things up for options.  I like Cole but can't comment on his ability to play different roles.

Thanks for the detailed input and convo on the ratio.  It's informative.

Quote from: Pete on July 09, 2024, 03:24:11 AMIs it really an issue, we have traditionally gone with 6 cdns on offence. 3 olineman, rb, 2 receivers. Why we have to continually try to force the 7th to be a dt is beyond me. We spend a lot of our draft picks on this position as well. It would seem to be more easier and cheaper to find a cdn safety. I don't think there would be a drop off to insert Hallet over Alexander. Actually there is no need as we start a cdn db (Ford) and at LB (Kramdl) My issue is the continued stubbornness of having a cdn dt, or even a cdn offensive lineman just because we've always done that.

If Hallet was a better option than Alexander he would be starting imo.  I don't mind him and he is a good depth player.  Flexibility with having more Canadians is an advantage imo.  Have to be ready to adjust the lineup with many different injury scenarios.  I have nothing against developing a Canadian safety.  Would take time and patience to find a good one.  Developing Kramdi will pay off long term imo.  Ford will be a star in a few years I bet.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 08:20:23 PMHockey, baseball and basketball don't have ratios. I don't think most of fans at games can name all the Canadians on the roster. I can. You might but that isn't generally true.

Does the Valour soccer league have a ratio?  (If so, there ya go; if not, maybe they are too minor league with no budget to bring in Americans or globals.)  (I'm also assuming Valour's league is Canada only?  Otherwise ignore this point completely.)

In any case, your point is a red herring because there really is no other league situated as the CFL is.  I'm pretty sure CFL is the only "major league" "pro" sport that is fully contained within Canada.  The "bigger" ML sports are all mostly American-based, thus a Canadian ratio would be asinine (as the X-Era was in the CFL).

The CFL is unique, and the ratio is unique, and we all know the stated goals and purposes -- and, the ratio has been around forever, at least since I was born, which is "forever" enough for me.

If you ditch the ratio tomorrow what you have is the CFL turning into XFL, AAF, US Spring League, or other <insert crappy short-lived American NFL-knockoff here>.  I've watched a lot of those.  They all suck.  Hard.  No one wants that.  I don't want an NFL-lite up here.  I want the CFL.  It's fine the way it is.  If you want a no-ratio all-American all-NFL-reject league, go watch those ones!

(And I'm not being antagonistic, I get what you're saying, but the reality is it's the ratio that makes the CFL CFL.  Give it some more thought, and argue why we wouldn't become just another US-adjunct league.)

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 10:58:31 PMNow I can't blame those 3 directly for our current record. I would point out that Thomas had a knock down but had no impact on pressuring the QB or making DT's. He wasn't the only one but our DL was not effective.

Watch again!  I have a keen eye on Fatboi as one of my fave players, and he's been getting big push on OLs forcing them close to the QB, which makes the QB antsy.  Ya, doesn't get a stat, but it makes QBs make mistakes.

I wish Fatboi could shed blocks a little better for run stop, but that's never been his strong suit.  I think the plan for him is to get him to tie up as many OL as he can, and do unexpected things to throw off OL and mess with the pocket.

Remember when everyone said Jake isn't an everydown guy?  Ya, well, he's an everydown guy now! (For a couple of seasons now)

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 02:37:48 AMI'd start a modification of the ratio by eliminating all global spots and switching them to Canadian designations. The 2nd thing I'd do is eliminate the Nationalized American.

I'd be all over that.  But clearly the league is not immune to questionable social zeitgeists.  It is what it is, and I doubt those who call the shots (and I'm not talking Ambrosie) will abandon the boondoggle -- on-field product and NAT participation be darned.

Quote from: Pete on July 09, 2024, 03:24:11 AMIs it really an issue, we have traditionally gone with 6 cdns on offence. 3 olineman, rb, 2 receivers. Why we have to continually try to force the 7th to be a dt is beyond me. We spend a lot of our draft picks on this position as well. It would seem to be more easier and cheaper to find a cdn safety. I don't think there would be a drop off to insert Hallet over Alexander. Actually there is no need as we start a cdn db (Ford) and at LB (Kramdl) My issue is the continued stubbornness of having a cdn dt, or even a cdn offensive lineman just because we've always done that.

Where Canadians start is fluid. Most teams don't start a Canadian RB either. OL and DL are part of the supply and demand issue as far as availability. Finding a Canadian safety is the opposite of that volume wise.

Ford looks like he's going to become a top CB so I have no issue with a few growing pains. It's easier to see that on TV then it is evaluating Kramdi. The SAM has varying duties and without game film and knowing the responsibilities, harder to judge.

I don't know that teams try to force the 7th as a DT. While Canadian receivers are becoming better all the time, the supply / demand issue means we look into the American pool for talent.  Ditto for LB's and DB's in general.

That essentially means the CFL tends to look at the OL pool for a large number of starters. There is a larger American pool there as well, but it's a question of where can teams draft players most likely to play at a good level.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 09, 2024, 05:55:46 AMWatch again!  I have a keen eye on Fatboi as one of my fave players, and he's been getting big push on OLs forcing them close to the QB, which makes the QB antsy.  Ya, doesn't get a stat, but it makes QBs make mistakes.

I wish Fatboi could shed blocks a little better for run stop, but that's never been his strong suit.  I think the plan for him is to get him to tie up as many OL as he can, and do unexpected things to throw off OL and mess with the pocket.

Remember when everyone said Jake isn't an everydown guy?  Ya, well, he's an everydown guy now! (For a couple of seasons now)

You watch again. Opposing QB's have had way too long to look for receivers in every game. There is no push from the interior of the DL and DL in general.  We lose contain as well and QB's run for good yardage.

Someone can check but we must rank very low on sacks and pressure. The Lions put up 400 yards passing and over 100 yards running.

I'd disagree that no ratio means an equivalent to XFL or USFL.  Half the Canadian starters are usually OL. Who really watches them unless they make a mistake.

If we acquired Pickett to start at SAM replacing Kramdi do you think fans would complain we're starting 1 Canadian less. OTOH, if we acquired Dequoy to start in place of Alexander would fans complain about that.

Fans cheer for play makers. Nationality is just a bonus when you find a good one like Demski or Oliveria.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 09, 2024, 05:52:18 AMThe CFL is unique, and the ratio is unique, and we all know the stated goals and purposes -- and, the ratio has been around forever, at least since I was born, which is "forever" enough for me.

Origin of the ratio? You can blame Winnipeg. CFL teams were originally made up of local players. The east was dominating the Grey Cup under this system until Winnipeg amalgamated their local teams and brought in hired gun Americans.

"The year 1935 saw football in Winnipeg becoming firmly established, with an influx of American players, and the 'Pegs victory in the Grey Cup final. Frustrated by the long dominance of the Grey Cup by eastern teams, the 'Pegs administration hired a number of American import (now called international) players, taking advantage of the contacts they had made while playing exhibition games in the US and offering financial incentives to nine American players, including Fritz Hanson. Although American players had been recruited by teams before, Winnipeg was the first to import a large contingent. These hirings were controversial and eventually led to present-day rules governing player imports."

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/winnipeg-blue-bombers

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 08, 2024, 10:58:31 PMWell when another poster suggests a difference of opinion makes me non Canadian then I'm going to challenge that comment.

I haven't specifically said that Thomas, Kolo or Kramdi shouldn't be starting. However, I have questioned whether that was our best option. There are several others that have suggested others should be starting in front of them.

Saying they are the best Canadians we have at those positions is not a primary reason for them to start. The scouting didn't do a good job to bring in imports to compete for those positions.

There was zero doubt that those players were going to start before TC started.

Now I can't blame those 3 directly for our current record. I would point out that Thomas had a knock down but had no impact on pressuring the QB or making DT's. He wasn't the only one but our DL was not effective.

Kramdi has been burned seriously several times.  We don't have the luxury of film or know who was responsible for what on each play. Even the best get burned at times. However, I'm not seeing what we saw when we had Leggett or Maston always " making " plays.

You and I have had our conversational battles over the years. You refuse to see anything negative about the team. The rules make the game unique. The ratio is something only some die hard fans care about.

Try being a little less bias and look at the reality. Bombers had to start Hurl because we needed a 7th Canadian at the time. Obviously years ago, but that's the point.

Next time you go to a game, ask 3 fans sitting next to you what they think. Ask them if they can name 15 Canadians on the roster. Let me know what they say.

Congratulations on despising the ratio and not understanding the important role the CFL plays in promoting the participation of Canadian youth in the game of football.  It's not the fans in the stadium, watching on TSN, or arguing on CFL football forums that don't give a **** about the nationality of the players.  It's the vast majority of football fans in Canada that have tuned out the CFL and pay no attention to it because they do not relate to the game as part of their history, heritage or identity. 

Read the writing on the wall written in declining game attendance spread over decades, CFL football fans are a dying breed and dying breeds usually die.  Once the CFL is gone everyone can get on with watching NFL games on TV while washing it all down with shi.....nasty Budweiser beer, because who really cares where it comes from, eh?

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 01:22:43 PMYou watch again. Opposing QB's have had way too long to look for receivers in every game. There is no push from the interior of the DL and DL in general.  We lose contain as well and QB's run for good yardage.

Someone can check but we must rank very low on sacks and pressure. The Lions put up 400 yards passing and over 100 yards running.

I'd disagree that no ratio means an equivalent to XFL or USFL.  Half the Canadian starters are usually OL. Who really watches them unless they make a mistake.

If we acquired Pickett to start at SAM replacing Kramdi do you think fans would complain we're starting 1 Canadian less. OTOH, if we acquired Dequoy to start in place of Alexander would fans complain about that.

Fans cheer for play makers. Nationality is just a bonus when you find a good one like Demski or Oliveria.

I partially disagree with the idea that we don't care about the nationality.
I'll give you some examples:
That year Rourke was close to getting MVP, he was all anyone could talk about! Collaros still got MVP and was easily better that season than Rourke was. ZC didn't generate nearly the excitement as Rourke.

Think about other sports. In the NBA, Canadians really get behind guys like Olynyk, Wiggins, or Dort but they wouldn't be guys that jump off the page if they were not Canadian. I think I could name examples very similar to this in every major sport.

I think that keeping the ratio makes the CFL unique, and keeps Canadians more interested. Isn't it kind of cool when you talk to people who went to school with some the guys in the CFL?
However, I do see the future of the CFL becoming more of the American if fans start to drop off.

Ratio does noting to hurt butts in seats and makes teh league interesting.  FA and the draft both would be done away with if ratio was gone. 

Draft, ELC's, developing players due to passport, all adds to the league.  And when one comes out and shines, again, it promotes the league.

If we wanted to be a semi-pro feeder league for the NFL and get UFL type crowds and ratings, for sure, dump the ratio.

But ratio makes the league better, more interesting and more competitive.

Need to Know | Week 6

....There was a lot of (Lucky) Whitehead flashing his trademark smile during his give and take with the media after practice and a genuine appreciation for a return to the place where his CFL career began after NFL stints with the Dallas Cowboys and New York Jets.
"It felt amazing (to get the call from the Blue Bombers)," said Whitehead, who will wear #13, the same number he wore in his rookie year with the Cowboys. "I was telling a couple of the guys, if I was to go anywhere, I'm glad it was here. I'm familiar with the city, the fans, the organization. So, I was definitely ecstatic about the opportunity.
"My first year here (2019) we won a championship. So, just the memories, the excitement that I had here when I was playing, the parade – it was epic stuff. I will say I still have close friends on the team."
Blue Bombers head coach Mike O'Shea was non-committal as to when Whitehead might get into the lineup, but it sounds like this Friday against Calgary would be considered a long shot right now.
"Well, he knows how we like things done," said O'Shea of Whitehead. "He certainly is a very positive guy. He's, dare I say, joyful, on a daily basis. He's good to have in the room. Always has energy and those are the non-football things he brings. When he gets out onto the field, he can be electric. Certainly, him having so many snaps in the CFL is a little different than some of our young guys.
"We still have to figure out where it all fits. His desire to come here and take the roll that he was given, that's a good start...."

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/07/08/need-to-know-week-6/

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 09, 2024, 03:23:52 PMCongratulations on despising the ratio and not understanding the important role the CFL plays in promoting the participation of Canadian youth in the game of football.  It's not the fans in the stadium, watching on TSN, or arguing on CFL football forums that don't give a **** about the nationality of the players.  It's the vast majority of football fans in Canada that have tuned out the CFL and pay no attention to it because they do not relate to the game as part of their history, heritage or identity. 

Read the writing on the wall written in declining game attendance spread over decades, CFL football fans are a dying breed and dying breeds usually die.  Once the CFL is gone everyone can get on with watching NFL games on TV while washing it all down with shi.....nasty Budweiser beer, because who really cares where it comes from, eh?

The decline is due to several things. All games are now broadcast. Everybody has an HD big screen TV. Costs to attend live games has increased dramatically.  Other spending options for disposable income. Ratio has nothing to do with any of that. You've essentially supported my argument that many fans could care less about the ratio.

Nothing has changed to decrease the participation in youth sports. So your argument is completely out to lunch. The ratio is still there but the attendance is going down. How can we rationalize how Gen X or Gen Z relates to the CFL history or heritage of the game.

How does that fit into your argument of declining attendance when the ratio is still there?

Quote from: theaardvark on July 09, 2024, 04:03:54 PMRatio does noting to hurt butts in seats and makes teh league interesting.  FA and the draft both would be done away with if ratio was gone. 

Draft, ELC's, developing players due to passport, all adds to the league.  And when one comes out and shines, again, it promotes the league.

If we wanted to be a semi-pro feeder league for the NFL and get UFL type crowds and ratings, for sure, dump the ratio.

But ratio makes the league better, more interesting and more competitive.

The CFL is never going to be a feeder league for the NFL. Even without the spring leagues, they have vast amounts of graduating players every season. The CFL only loses a small handful to the NFL every season. Most are quickly back. Few last longer than 1 season.

Even without the ratio, FA would still exist. Players that have done well will want more money and more opportunity to play a larger role. Doesn't matter if they are Canadian or Americans that will be true.

The draft could still exist but players would have to actually beat out Americans to win a roster spot.

to me the ratio as it sits is an non issue, we are starting more that the alloted ratio anyway.
What our biggest issue is that we can't seem to find imports that are a better alternative. Either that or (as mentioned earlier) we are entrenched with have certain Cdns and for that Americans at certain positions. Either way it's hurting us. Is Thomas better than Woods or Adams? If so then why haven't we found someone else, or why didn't we go after Oakman.
We keep trying to maintain a culture which is fine when you're winning but at some point you need to upgrade the talent. (sorry if some of this has been stated but its hard to read thru the long dissertations sometimes

I'm looking forward to when Whitehead is activated. He may or may not have much immediate influence on the game but he's a popular fun guy. His entrances to the stadium alone are entertaining.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 05:29:51 PMI'm looking forward to when Whitehead is activated. He may or may not have much immediate influence on the game but he's a popular fun guy. His entrances to the stadium alone are entertaining.

I think he'll be an asset once he's ready to go. I'm curious if he'll end up on KR/PR duties; Smith ain't it.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 09, 2024, 05:40:11 PMI think he'll be an asset once he's ready to go. I'm curious if he'll end up on KR/PR duties; Smith ain't it.

i would have my doubts...MOS seems to stick with guys.  I think Smith has been "OK"...not our biggest weakness but i don't think he has the "it" factor a premier returner has.  You can just tell that they have that initial burst and no hesitation when they catch the ball - Smith doesn't have that yet - he waits that one or two seconds.  In fairness some of the blocking has been bad as well.


He had a nice return last game that i think if he stretches it outside a bit more he might have taken it back.

Smith will get a longer leash returning.  He hasn't done badly, he had a couple brain farts in preseason, but also had some nice returns before he got nicked.  So far, he's done well with what he's been given, and I can see him getting better as he gets the feel for it.  Its a much different situation returning in the CFL.

That said, its nice to have Lucky as a backup option.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 09, 2024, 05:51:42 PMSmith will get a longer leash returning.  He hasn't done badly, he had a couple brain farts in preseason, but also had some nice returns before he got nicked.  So far, he's done well with what he's been given, and I can see him getting better as he gets the feel for it.  Its a much different situation returning in the CFL.

That said, its nice to have Lucky as a backup option.

Smith is the least of their problems, he's no Grant but he's been better than every alternative to Grant trotted out since last season.  Good to see ST improved play on both sides of the ball.  Hate when opposing returners regularly bring the ball back 25-40 yds. when both the O and the D are underperforming that's a win killer.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 09, 2024, 06:06:36 PMSmith is the least of their problems, he's no Grant but he's been better than every alternative to Grant trotted out since last season.  Good to see ST improved play on both sides of the ball.  Hate when opposing returners regularly bring the ball back 25-40 yds. when both the O and the D are underperforming that's a win killer.

Think last season the coaching may have been the issue..or a significant contributor to the issues.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 09, 2024, 05:40:11 PMI think he'll be an asset once he's ready to go. I'm curious if he'll end up on KR/PR duties; Smith ain't it.

IIRC, Whitehead was more a K/O returner than a punt returner when he was in Winnipeg?

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 06:14:31 PMIIRC, Whitehead was more a K/O returner than a punt returner when he was in Winnipeg?

I think you're right. His stats from 2019 only show KR: https://www.cfl.ca/players/lucky-whitehead/163481/

(https://i.imgur.com/VetIfTG.jpeg)

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 04:38:13 PMThe decline is due to several things. All games are now broadcast. Everybody has an HD big screen TV. Costs to attend live games has increased dramatically.  Other spending options for disposable income. Ratio has nothing to do with any of that. You've essentially supported my argument that many fans could care less about the ratio.

Nothing has changed to decrease the participation in youth sports. So your argument is completely out to lunch. The ratio is still there but the attendance is going down. How can we rationalize how Gen X or Gen Z relates to the CFL history or heritage of the game.

How does that fit into your argument of declining attendance when the ratio is still there?

Not true as it applies to Winnioeg with increased costs to go to Blue Bomber games. The club does a great job to keep costs reasonable. My costs have remained flatlined for years.

Bryant and Chris Ike, not practicing today. Wallace in for Bryant.

Park, Haba, and Lawson, all look like they will need another 6 games.

Kelly and what looked like Garbutt running sprints.

Lucky with a nice catch from Wilson, depth in the middle.  Also, Wilson to Wilson on a nice depth throw. Wilson has the strongest arm of our 3 QB's by far.

Wilson, taking second unit reps.

Case and Smith returning punts.

Strev17 dressed but not practicing.

 

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 09, 2024, 06:29:36 PMNo true with increased costs to go to Blue Bomber games. The club does a great job to keep costs reasonable. My costs have remained flatlined for years.

that is pretty true - very slight increase but nothing compared to the cost of other things.  Very, very reasonable event.  The $5 pregame beers are great.

3down: re lucky.

"In 60 CFL career games, the Florida Atlantic product has made 248 catches for 3,192 yards and 12 touchdowns. Prior to coming to Canada, he dressed for 30 NFL games with the Dallas Cowboys and New York Jets, recording nine receptions for 64 yards, 33 kickoff returns for 846 yards, and 44 punt returns for 305 yards."

Quote from: markf on July 09, 2024, 07:42:26 PM3down: re lucky.

"In 60 CFL career games, the Florida Atlantic product has made 248 catches for 3,192 yards and 12 touchdowns. Prior to coming to Canada, he dressed for 30 NFL games with the Dallas Cowboys and New York Jets, recording nine receptions for 64 yards, 33 kickoff returns for 846 yards, and 44 punt returns for 305 yards."

30 games over 3 years... is that enough for an NFL pension?

DEPTH CHART IS UP

GRpoLnhbMAcpYa8.jpg

number 97 on the field today. Not sure if Kornelson is back?? Nothing on our official roster. Big guy, beat up the tackling dummy most of the practice.

Quote from: peg_city on July 09, 2024, 08:09:58 PMDEPTH CHART IS UP

GRpoLnhbMAcpYa8.jpg

You forgot a J Murphy in there at WR

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 06:14:31 PMIIRC, Whitehead was more a K/O returner than a punt returner when he was in Winnipeg?

He doesn't have the best hands, takes some skill to grab hold of a tumbling punt.

No Loffler?  That's only 8 NATS starting, we need 10...

Quote from: theaardvark on July 09, 2024, 08:39:38 PMNo Loffler?  That's only 8 NATS starting, we need 10...

You'll have to take that up with, along with any other complaints, the blue bomber office.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 09, 2024, 06:29:36 PMNo true with increased costs to go to Blue Bomber games. The club does a great job to keep costs reasonable. My costs have remained flatlined for years.

I think he was speaking more generally than just Bomber games.

Quote from: Jesse on July 09, 2024, 09:22:04 PMI think he was speaking more generally than just Bomber games.

Ok...so Blue lives in BC right. Are Lions games that much more expensive than previously?

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 09, 2024, 05:40:11 PMI think he'll be an asset once he's ready to go. I'm curious if he'll end up on KR/PR duties; Smith ain't it.

Smith has progressed and I expect him to continue, looks like another guy was also practicing this as well.  Nothing wrong with a little Lucky once he is in game shape but only if needed, keep him healthy and fresh would be my idea.  I would also use him on screen pass, over the middle and an occasional sweep.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on July 09, 2024, 09:35:53 PMOk...so Blue lives in BC right. Are Lions games that much more expensive than previously?

I was making a general comment about inflation overall over time.  I used to pay $6 to park and now it's $30 - $35 for games.

Gas costs, food costs, merch and everything else. Traffic. Some days the Lions play the same day as the Canucks.

Now the Canucks have been around since 1970, but there is also the Whitecaps. Other cities have gained hockey teams, baseball, basketball and soccer. Over time that has taken away discretionary spending that might have gone to football.

Aging populations of baby boomers on fixed incomes. Younger generations less interested in history of any particular spot has eroded football fan bases more than some sports.

As I mentioned, the invent of HD widescreen colour tv's with every game being broadcast.

I've lived in Vancouver since 1965 and remember games at Empire Stadium with 30K+ in attendance. I've also gone to games in the late 80's or early 90's where there were less than 15K even when they were winning.

Each city has it's own issues. It's clear attendance is dwindling across the league. Winning helps improve that in some cities but in others it's almost a flat line.

Generally we have had larger, better stadiums and a more entertaining game compared to the past IMO.  Now we've reached a point where some facilities need to be replaced. Watching some games is like watching UFL spring football games from an attendance point of view.

Edmonton attendance this year over 3 games. They aren't winning but they have been entertaining.


1   1   20,681
2   2   15,790
3   3   10,857

Sounds like Strev17 was pretty banged up. Looked like he was moving well today. But, he didn't practice today.

Quote from: Pigskin on July 09, 2024, 11:30:10 PMSounds like Strev17 was pretty banged up. Looked like he was moving well today. But, he didn't practice today.

He took a beating - that is why a QB of his skills just is not sustainable.  No human can take hits and run full out, then expect to shake it off in 30 seconds and read a defence and execute a precision play. Just not possible in the long term. 

I appreciate what he does - he is a full blown beast who has a high pain threshold but it won't last as a Qb.  If Zach needs to ever miss 3 games - Streveler isn't lasting, it's Terry time then. 

Quote from: theaardvark on July 09, 2024, 07:58:34 PM30 games over 3 years... is that enough for an NFL pension?

not sure....

Quote from: Pigskin on July 09, 2024, 11:30:10 PMSounds like Strev17 was pretty banged up. Looked like he was moving well today. But, he didn't practice today.

I saw him at Stella's on Sunday. He was walking normal and was in a great mood.   8)

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 01:22:43 PMYou watch again. Opposing QB's have had way too long to look for receivers in every game. There is no push from the interior of the DL and DL in general.  We lose contain as well and QB's run for good yardage.

Yes, but that's not all on Fatboi.  It's a unit, not one man.  I think Fatboi is producing at a mid-high level similar to what he's done in the last 2-3 seasons.  He's not Stove, nor Nevis, nor Sayles.  And he's not Laurent at Laurent's peak.  But he is Fatboi.  After posting my last reply I watched more of the OTT game and Fatboi is almost always tying up 2 OL.  It's a numbers game and he's doing his part.  I bet MOS would agree... I'd rip on the other DTs and the DE not-named-Willie before Fatboi.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 01:22:43 PMI'd disagree that no ratio means an equivalent to XFL or USFL.  Half the Canadian starters are usually OL. Who really watches them unless they make a mistake.

You keep saying that, but you don't justify it.  We 100% would become the XFL/AAF.  Not a "feeder league" per se, but a NFL-reject and never-drafted all-American wasteland.  Why wouldn't it?

Or flip it on its head: the XFL/AAF had no ratio (clearly) and they hired virtually no Canadians.  Why would they?  The best went to the NFL.  So why would a ratioless CFL hire Canadians?  If anything, a ratioless CFL would hire less Canadians than XFL/AAF because the CFL (currently) has a higher SMS/budget than the loser-leagues, and thus can vie for the more expensive tier of Americans who don't like the fixed-salary limitations of the loser-leagues.

As everyone always points out: if there was no ratio there would be no Demski.  Period.  He was pretty weak for all his SSK years, without showing much promise.  So would that be a good thing?  Either explain how no-ratio would still get Demski a job, or explain how no-Demski is a good thing.  If you can't do either, then the ratio is a good thing for the CFL.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 04:38:13 PMNothing has changed to decrease the participation in youth sports. So your argument is completely out to lunch. The ratio is still there but the attendance is going down. How can we rationalize how Gen X or Gen Z relates to the CFL history or heritage of the game.

I'd say "nothing has changed to decrease the participation in [ U ] sports" because the CFL continues to provide the promise of a pro-level future and decent-to-big money.  If you take that away by ditching the ratio, guaranteed the participation in Usports declines.  You're making it sound like something has changed already re: ratio or earning power of Canadians in the CFL: it hasn't.  Attendance is irrelevant to this argument.

Many of the recent DPs (i.e. the Philpots) talk about how their dreams all through high school and U were getting to play pro in the CFL.  No ratio, virtually no Canadians hired (the truly best going to the NFL), thus no dreams for the Canadian teenagers.  Ya, maybe the 1% of the 1% might be told/think they are NFL material, but all the rest, nah.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 09, 2024, 05:40:11 PMI think he'll be an asset once he's ready to go. I'm curious if he'll end up on KR/PR duties; Smith ain't it.

Smith gets a longer leash.  At least he hasn't flubbed up and (possibly) cost us a game like Mitchell did.  To me that's job #1 and 90% of the ask.  I have no doubt that even if Lucky is ARd, Smith is the main guy returning (unless he flubs).  At most Lucky will get to be an other-side co-returner.

Even BC was barely ever using Lucky on returns for his final 1.5 seasons there.

Quote from: peg_city on July 09, 2024, 08:09:58 PMDEPTH CHART IS UP

Haha, good one.  You had me checking the calendar and doing a double-take on the day-of-the-week.  Then I started reading the names... sneaky b!

Quote from: theaardvark on July 09, 2024, 08:39:38 PMNo Loffler?  That's only 8 NATS starting, we need 10...

I'll see your 10 and raise you 2 more.

Heard in the halls of PAS recently (allegedly):

KW: I think we're starting a lot of NATs.
MOS: You think that's a lot of NATs?!  Just you wait to see what I can do!  I'll show you NATs!

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 09, 2024, 10:42:58 PMGenerally we have had larger, better stadiums and a more entertaining game compared to the past IMO.  Now we've reached a point where some facilities need to be replaced. Watching some games is like watching UFL spring football games from an attendance point of view.

ALL stadiums need to be designed so the cameras are on the visitor side.  So many stadiums, especially the "empty" ones (TOR, OTT, EDM, BC) and the newest ones (TOR, OTT), have very decent attendance on the home (or bench) side.  Yet the cams are there too, pointing towards the empty side.  You can confirm this when the kicks show sparse stands but the odd ground-level shots that pan up the home/bench side show a dense crowd.

Heck, even PAS has this problem, as just by a quick glance across at the E I can tell my C-yard line area on the W is at least 20-25% better attended.  But PAS is so well attended it doesn't matter that they are showing the E.  Other stadiums don't have that advantage.  (SSK's toilet bowl actually charges more for home-side tickets!!  A very smart idea.)

It's easy to solve in a new stadium: put all cameras on the other/sparse side!!  Either that, or do Mosaic tricks to even out the sales.

BinBC: Fatboi -- check out OTT@WPG 4Q14:51 where Crum throws the INT to Bonds.  Ya, who is 1Y away from Crum getting him all antsy... who pushed back his OL guy a full 7Y and had him on his heels barely upright?

Fatboi.  Antsy QB = bad decision = INT.

Who, the play before, on an Armstead run tied up 2 hoggies so Biggie could come into the gap and stuff the run?

Fatboi.

Much of the game was like this.  Most games are.

Fatboi goes unnoticed because he gets almost no stats.  But don't say he's not doing much or the weakest of weak links until you spend entire rewatches focusing on him.  If you're not looking for it, you'd never notice it.

Ya, MOS does.  I bet Fatboi is still playing DT for us in 2025.

Edit: 4Q3:39 Fatboi beats his hoggie faster than anyone could imagine and is in Crum's face when he's trying to pass, Crum has to scramble and others chase him OOB for a loss.  That is 100% all Fatboi.

Meh, Thomas should not have even been starting this season, but Lawson got hurt.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 10, 2024, 05:53:37 AMYes, but that's not all on Fatboi.  It's a unit, not one man.  I think Fatboi is producing at a mid-high level similar to what he's done in the last 2-3 seasons.  He's not Stove, nor Nevis, nor Sayles.  And he's not Laurent at Laurent's peak.  But he is Fatboi.  After posting my last reply I watched more of the OTT game and Fatboi is almost always tying up 2 OL.  It's a numbers game and he's doing his part.  I bet MOS would agree... I'd rip on the other DTs and the DE not-named-Willie before Fatboi.

You keep saying that, but you don't justify it.  We 100% would become the XFL/AAF.  Not a "feeder league" per se, but a NFL-reject and never-drafted all-American wasteland.  Why wouldn't it?

Or flip it on its head: the XFL/AAF had no ratio (clearly) and they hired virtually no Canadians.  Why would they?  The best went to the NFL.  So why would a ratioless CFL hire Canadians?  If anything, a ratioless CFL would hire less Canadians than XFL/AAF because the CFL (currently) has a higher SMS/budget than the loser-leagues, and thus can vie for the more expensive tier of Americans who don't like the fixed-salary limitations of the loser-leagues.

As everyone always points out: if there was no ratio there would be no Demski.  Period.  He was pretty weak for all his SSK years, without showing much promise.  So would that be a good thing?  Either explain how no-ratio would still get Demski a job, or explain how no-Demski is a good thing.  If you can't do either, then the ratio is a good thing for the CFL.

Why do I need to justify that the CFL wouldn't be an NFL feeder league. Rosters have 23 imports now and it's not a feeder league. The CFL has always had NFL cuts and non drafted players. A few get signed as TCF each year but few stick.

The NFL has a vast pool of players they can draft each year.

If the CFL increased the imports by 20 for each team that's only another 180 players. The NFL isn't going to jump up and down with joy about a larger pool. If they wanted to consider us as a feeder league, they'd negotiate sending some of their draft choices to the CFL for a year to get them experience. They'd have some sort of financial investment if they thought it was beneficial ( like NFL Europe ).

Regarding whether we'd see top Canadians still make rosters, I'd say yes we would. Even with the vast number of imports we bring to camp, most are quickly tossed. We have to scour the leftovers to find players to fill the roster.

So in the same way that at times teams can't find enough good Canadians, they also can't find enough good Americans.

No ratio does not mean no room for Canadians on the roster. Roster size, ratio, SMS are all part of a tricky balance. Trying to operate at a profit level as well is becoming more of an issue with several teams losing money each season.

Ratio has been fluid over the past 50 years. When roster size was 32 we only had 15 imports and 17 Canadians. The ratio has moved towards more imports and that hasn't stopped Canadian kids still living the dream.

We can continue this discussion more if you wish by DM's. The string took a detour I didn't intend. Or you can start a new string specific topic.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 10, 2024, 05:58:59 AMI'd say "nothing has changed to decrease the participation in [ U ] sports" because the CFL continues to provide the promise of a pro-level future and decent-to-big money.  If you take that away by ditching the ratio, guaranteed the participation in Usports declines.  You're making it sound like something has changed already re: ratio or earning power of Canadians in the CFL: it hasn't.  Attendance is irrelevant to this argument.

Many of the recent DPs (i.e. the Philpots) talk about how their dreams all through high school and U were getting to play pro in the CFL.  No ratio, virtually no Canadians hired (the truly best going to the NFL), thus no dreams for the Canadian teenagers.  Ya, maybe the 1% of the 1% might be told/think they are NFL material, but all the rest, nah.

Kids play football because it's fun. Everybody wants to be a star both in the NFL and the CFL. You think no ratio means kids stop playing football at an early age and don't participate in College football? Even though there are less roster spots, interest has increased at all levels of Canadian football. Players are getting better each year.

I'd strongly disagree. I'd use hockey as the example. Every kid wants to play in the NHL and it has no ratio. Teams are still filled with top Canadian players

Quote from: theaardvark on July 09, 2024, 07:58:34 PM30 games over 3 years... is that enough for an NFL pension?

Yes. You need to be on a game day roster a minimum of 3 times in 3 seperate seasons. However, the NFL pension isn't fantastic -- the average player makes ~$45,000 USD per year once they are 55-years-old. It pension goes up the longer and more they've played.

Somewhat on topic, Streveler is not eligible (he missed it by 2 games).

We're already an NFL feeder league. Our best get a shot at the NFL. Reducing or eliminating the ratio wouldn't change that. 

U sports players want to make the NFL first then settle for the CFL next. U sports has basketball and their is no CBL, so I don't see the lack of a CFL equaling less U sport football. 

Why so much talk about ratio etc. please put that in "ratio" thread.....

Yesterdays IR report was fairly encouraging. Bryant and Chris-Ike were the only ones listed as DNP. I'll be surprised if Bryant doesn't play. He's not a player that needs practice every week. Giving him more time to rest is a good idea.

OTOH, I expect Chris-Ike will miss this game after Samson was moved to the AR from the PR earlier. That and Chris-Ike hasn't practised this week yet and he's a rookie.

Depth chart will be interesting as it is every week. Any of Garbutt, Whitehead, Alston or Case might be activated.

I'm expecting Garbutt and Whitehead as most probable but I'm not sure what to base that on other than good PR. lol

I expect a Bomber win as the team has been improving week to week. 3 losses by a total of 7 points says improve a few things to turn the tide.

Bombers 27 - Stamps 14.

From what I witnessed in practice...
Garbutt will finish his stint on the 6G.
Whitehead will not be an option this week.
Alston is looking good, but on 2nd team O.
Case looks like PR Returner insurance.

Quote from: Nic16 on July 10, 2024, 03:58:53 PMFrom what I witnessed in practice...
Garbutt will finish his stint on the 6G.
Whitehead will not be an option this week.
Alston is looking good, but on 2nd team O.
Case looks like PR Returner insurance.

If that's the case is there another import that might be added to fill the vacancy opened by cutting Fayad?  By process of elimination based on other comments, Tony Jones might be the only import considered to add for this week?  At the very least he might be useful on ST's. I don't think we need another DB from the PR at the moment.

We need a small airlift of players to consider for the PR. The catch is space on the PR.

Or are we starting 11 Canadians this week?

Quote from: Jesse on July 10, 2024, 12:39:43 PMMeh, Thomas should not have even been starting this season, but Lawson got hurt.

Why do you hate Thomas?  He is an effective DL that makes a good push and has actually knocked down a pass, as well as harrassing QB's all year.  12 tackles, and with the DL depleted, he has been utilized more than he should be, and is holding his own in spite of other teams being able to target him with double teams.

Rotating with Lawson, he would be even more effective, for sure.  And it would be hard to define whether it is Lawson "starting" or Thomas.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 10, 2024, 04:48:37 PMWhy do you hate Thomas?

Jesse suggesting Thomas shouldn't be starting does not mean he hates him. Jee-zus.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 10, 2024, 04:48:37 PMWhy do you hate Thomas?  He is an effective DL that makes a good push and has actually knocked down a pass, as well as harrassing QB's all year.  12 tackles, and with the DL depleted, he has been utilized more than he should be, and is holding his own in spite of other teams being able to target him with double teams.

Rotating with Lawson, he would be even more effective, for sure.  And it would be hard to define whether it is Lawson "starting" or Thomas.

I love Thomas. I think he'd be at his most effective in a back-up role spelling off Lawson. And I think that was going to be the plan. 

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 10, 2024, 05:04:36 PMJesse suggesting Thomas shouldn't be starting does not mean he hates him. Jee-zus.

Sorry, hard to pick that up in a text.  I apparently mistook it for Thomas shouldn't be on the team...

Quote from: Jesse on July 10, 2024, 05:12:55 PMI love Thomas. I think he'd be at his most effective in a back-up role spelling off Lawson. And I think that was going to be the plan. 

Sorry I mistook your remark.  Thomas will do anything the team asks him to, still remember seeing him downfield on ST plays.  Yes, "game management" of Thomas would possibly allow for better output by reducing the workload and allowing him time to recover better, he is the longest serving Bomber and 33 this year...  but I think he will give everything he's got whenever asked.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 10, 2024, 06:29:08 PMSorry, hard to pick that up in a text.  I apparently mistook it for Thomas shouldn't be on the team...

Sorry I mistook your remark.  Thomas will do anything the team asks him to, still remember seeing him downfield on ST plays.  Yes, "game management" of Thomas would possibly allow for better output by reducing the workload and allowing him time to recover better, he is the longest serving Bomber and 33 this year...  but I think he will give everything he's got whenever asked.

It's the cancerous fallout from the other forum were some members want Thomas, Bighill, Wilson, BA and Kramdi cut, Collaros dumped and O'Shea fired. Seriously crackers.

Man, its gonna be a hot one on Friday, and ofcourse severe TStorms very likely
What's the odds we make it thru the game?

Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 10, 2024, 07:18:03 PMMan, its gonna be a hot one on Friday, and ofcourse severe TStorms very likely
What's the odds we make it thru the game?

I'd bet on me being in the Pinnacle Club alot...

Oh, by "we" you meant whether the team finishes the game without interruption/suspension... 

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 10, 2024, 03:25:54 PMI'm expecting Garbutt and Whitehead as most probable but I'm not sure what to base that on other than good PR. lol

MOS said in presser this week that Whitehead is almost certainly not a starts this week guy.  Ya, he could be bluffing, but it seems like he's being truthful.  Maybe Lucky's week 2 he'll start.  MOS also said it was important Lucky was ok with being on the PR.

Quote from: Jesse on July 10, 2024, 05:12:55 PMI love Thomas. I think he'd be at his most effective in a back-up role spelling off Lawson. And I think that was going to be the plan.

I'm not so sure.  The talking point is always "Fatboi isn't a starter" but I'm not so sure MOS sees it that way (anymore).

Fatboi is taking almost every snap and he's motoring and pushing and tying up dudes every down.  He has more energy and puts in waaaaay more effort than Willie does every down!

After this discussion started I watched Fatboi with an even keener eye in the OTT game and I'm telling you, you all need to watch that game just watching Fatboi.  He's doing incredible things out there, on the majority of his plays.

Every time our "weak NAT DT who shouldn't be starting" ties up 2 or 3 OL, that's a big win.  Every time he pushes his one hoggie back to near the QB, that's a win.  Every time he breaks free to rush the QB, that's a win.  So go watch how many snaps he achieves these things.  Then compare to the IMP DTs, who also are doing ok, but often end up flat on their faces in the turf.

Remember MOS (and probably Hall, and thus Younger) are very big on "gap cancellation" on D.  They always talk about the "numbers game".  If Fatboi takes up 2-3 hoggies then he's cancelling 1 or 2 gaps, then the LBers only have to cover the remaining gaps.  Watch how they do this, it happens all the time in our D.

No, Fatboi is not Stove.  No Fatboi isn't great at shedding blocks for a run stop.  But I don't think we ask him to be.  I think we scheme to his strengths.

If Lawson was 100% healthy I wouldn't be surprised if we started Fatboi/Lawson as our 2 DTs and have the IMPs backing them up (could do it with our ratio).

Quote from: BomberFan73 on July 10, 2024, 07:18:03 PMMan, its gonna be a hot one on Friday, and ofcourse severe TStorms very likely
What's the odds we make it thru the game?

If the t-storms are coming in H2, we have to 100% make sure we start fast and keep the lead.  We need to ensure that if the game is postponed and times-out/called that we get that W!  I'll be ok with robbing CGY, but not us getting robbed ourselves!  :D  :D

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 10, 2024, 04:12:08 PMIf that's the case is there another import that might be added to fill the vacancy opened by cutting Fayad?  By process of elimination based on other comments, Tony Jones might be the only import considered to add for this week?  At the very least he might be useful on ST's. I don't think we need another DB from the PR at the moment.

We need a small airlift of players to consider for the PR. The catch is space on the PR.

Or are we starting 11 Canadians this week?

I was at practice on Monday.  Lucky Ogbeovn was getting reps at D end with 1st team.  Wasn't there on Tuesday so not sure if that trend continued.  I mentioned a few weeks ago that he was noticeable at practice for his motor and quickness; he was practising as a D End and with the D Line in one on one's even though he's listed as a Linebacker.

FWIW, if the practice week ended the way it started, maybe he draws into the lineup unless we decide to dress only 6 DL - Thomas, Schmekel, Hubert, Woods, Adams, Jefferson.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 11, 2024, 12:02:10 AMI'm not so sure.  The talking point is always "Fatboi isn't a starter" but I'm not so sure MOS sees it that way (anymore).

Fatboi is taking almost every snap and he's motoring and pushing and tying up dudes every down.  He has more energy and puts in waaaaay more effort than Willie does every down!

After this discussion started I watched Fatboi with an even keener eye in the OTT game and I'm telling you, you all need to watch that game just watching Fatboi.  He's doing incredible things out there, on the majority of his plays.

Every time our "weak NAT DT who shouldn't be starting" ties up 2 or 3 OL, that's a big win.  Every time he pushes his one hoggie back to near the QB, that's a win.  Every time he breaks free to rush the QB, that's a win.  So go watch how many snaps he achieves these things.  Then compare to the IMP DTs, who also are doing ok, but often end up flat on their faces in the turf.

Remember MOS (and probably Hall, and thus Younger) are very big on "gap cancellation" on D.  They always talk about the "numbers game".  If Fatboi takes up 2-3 hoggies then he's cancelling 1 or 2 gaps, then the LBers only have to cover the remaining gaps.  Watch how they do this, it happens all the time in our D.

No, Fatboi is not Stove.  No Fatboi isn't great at shedding blocks for a run stop.  But I don't think we ask him to be.  I think we scheme to his strengths.

If Lawson was 100% healthy I wouldn't be surprised if we started Fatboi/Lawson as our 2 DTs and have the IMPs backing them up (could do it with our ratio).

I agree I think the coaching staff sees Jake doing a good job, but I don't see the point of him playing almost every snap leaving Schmeck with hardly any for some strange reason.  It would serve them both better if they shared snaps more equitably, afterall Schmeck is the future and needs more experience and Jake is the past and needs to pace himself.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 11, 2024, 12:48:49 AMI agree I think the coaching staff sees Jake doing a good job, but I don't see the point of him playing almost every snap leaving Schmeck with hardly any for some strange reason.  It would serve them both better if they shared snaps more equitably, afterall Schmeck is the future and needs more experience and Jake is the past and needs to pace himself.

I think Jake is a serviceable rotational player; hard pressed to think of any other team in the league where he'd be considered good enough to start unless they had ratio/experienced depth issues. 

We don't need to have a DT spot as one of our Cdn spots this year (as we've been starting 10 Cdns in several games this year)...but for the last several years DT has been one of our Cdn spots. I think our drafts and lack of recruiting/retention of Imp depth at DT reflects that decision; did we carry more than one backup imp DT last year or the year before?

I can't imagine that the plan going into this year was to have Fatboi play almost every snap on D. 

IMHO Lawson's injury, followed by Fox's injury and our lack of experienced depth (imp and cdn) necessitated Jake playing as much as he has because he was, and currently remains the best option amongst limited options. 

Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 11, 2024, 12:11:05 AMI was at practice on Monday.  Lucky Ogbeovn was getting reps at D end with 1st team.  Wasn't there on Tuesday so not sure if that trend continued.  I mentioned a few weeks ago that he was noticeable at practice for his motor and quickness; he was practising as a D End and with the D Line in one on one's even though he's listed as a Linebacker.

FWIW, if the practice week ended the way it started, maybe he draws into the lineup unless we decide to dress only 6 DL - Thomas, Schmekel, Hubert, Woods, Adams, Jefferson.

Interesting. I mentioned before that a global usually is at the cost of a Canadian roster spot. However it is possible that our current ratio would allow him to displace an import ( Fayad ).

That would concern be from a scouting perspective. We draft 2 global players and by definition they are awarded PR spots with zero competition.

OTOH, we have mini camps and look at dozens of players. We bring a dozen of DL to TC and we'd end up starting a rookie global player? He may not be starting and only used in rotation in defensive sets that may not be a traditional 43 defence.

Potentially starting 11 Canadians is also unusual.

Reality is that the real measurement is winning.

If Lucky Ogbeovn is good enough to start, they will start him. There is no incentive to starting 2 global players, so this would be a well earned start if that's the case.

Quote from: LXTSN on July 11, 2024, 01:16:56 PMIf Lucky Ogbeovn is good enough to start, they will start him. There is no incentive to starting 2 global players, so this would be a well earned start if that's the case.

Well earned against zero competition, lol.

So we're starting 11 Canadians and rostering an extra global than is required.

It seems hard to believe that these are the best candidates available to us. In a vacuum, I really like Hubert's game last week, but he and an undersized global linebacker is the best combination at DE we can find?

Quote from: Jesse on July 11, 2024, 03:22:07 PMSo we're starting 11 Canadians and rostering an extra global than is required.

It seems hard to believe that these are the best candidates available to us. In a vacuum, I really like Hubert's game last week, but he and an undersized global linebacker is the best combination at DE we can find?

Obviously they're waiting for Garbutt and Haba to recover to reclaim their spots, their solution this weekend is just a temporary fix. Secondly the possibility O'Shea really likes Lucky Ogbeovn and wants to reward him by giving him a chance to dress before the starters return, this is his shot, after this game he may be relegated to the PR for the rest of the season.

Seriously, what other team does Jake Thomas start for in the CFL because I don't see one.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 11, 2024, 01:07:20 PMInteresting. I mentioned before that a global usually is at the cost of a Canadian roster spot. However it is possible that our current ratio would allow him to displace an import ( Fayad ).

That would concern be from a scouting perspective. We draft 2 global players and by definition they are awarded PR spots with zero competition.

OTOH, we have mini camps and look at dozens of players. We bring a dozen of DL to TC and we'd end up starting a rookie global player? He may not be starting and only used in rotation in defensive sets that may not be a traditional 43 defence.

Potentially starting 11 Canadians is also unusual.

Reality is that the real measurement is winning.

He was rotating in with Hubert and Jefferson at Monday`s practise in traditional 4 3.  We`re really limited right now in terms of options...we made a decision to bring back Fayad but not any of the other TC D Ends like Rivers...seems clear that we`re waiting for Garbutt and Haba to return...hoping that Hubert and Ogbeovn can be serviceable in the meantime.  Given that we haven`t been generating a lot of push from the DLine, JY is going to have be creative with our blitz packages, bringing pressure from depth and DB`s; I`m sure Calgary has game-planned for this possibility, so it`ll be interesting to see if we`re able to get to Maier.

From a Captain Obvious perspective: ST`s need to be solid limiting big returns and penalties and Cashtillo needs to continue to make good on his field goal attempts.  Zach needs to have a good game and keep the O on the field.  We need to dominate TOP to limit Calgary`s chances to score on offense, and to tire out their D.

Quote from: Jesse on July 10, 2024, 12:39:43 PMMeh, Thomas should not have even been starting this season, but Lawson got hurt.

Why do you hate Thomas?

Quote from: blue_or_die on July 11, 2024, 06:37:21 PMWhy do you hate Thomas?

these darn groundhogs are taking over...

Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 11, 2024, 05:30:50 PMHe was rotating in with Hubert and Jefferson at Monday`s practise in traditional 4 3.  We`re really limited right now in terms of options...we made a decision to bring back Fayad but not any of the other TC D Ends like Rivers...seems clear that we`re waiting for Garbutt and Haba to return...hoping that Hubert and Ogbeovn can be serviceable in the meantime.  Given that we haven`t been generating a lot of push from the DLine, JY is going to have be creative with our blitz packages, bringing pressure from depth and DB`s; I`m sure Calgary has game-planned for this possibility, so it`ll be interesting to see if we`re able to get to Maier.

From a Captain Obvious perspective: ST`s need to be solid limiting big returns and penalties and Cashtillo needs to continue to make good on his field goal attempts.  Zach needs to have a good game and keep the O on the field.  We need to dominate TOP to limit Calgary`s chances to score on offense, and to tire out their D.

If Lucky O is undersized, is running him in a 4-3 any different than running a 3-4?

Just saying, we've been effective in a 3-4 and in a cheetah, although with our DE and oversized LB ranks depleted, not sure Cheetah is much in the plans right now...

Quote from: blue_or_die on July 11, 2024, 06:37:21 PMWhy do you hate Thomas?

He kicked my dog.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 11, 2024, 06:47:53 PMIf Lucky O is undersized, is running him in a 4-3 any different than running a 3-4?

Just saying, we've been effective in a 3-4 and in a cheetah, although with our DE and oversized LB ranks depleted, not sure Cheetah is much in the plans right now...

He might be playing the role Cole provided last season adding speed to the rush, a role which Cole has not been positioned to provide very often this season.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 11, 2024, 06:47:53 PMIf Lucky O is undersized, is running him in a 4-3 any different than running a 3-4?

Just saying, we've been effective in a 3-4 and in a cheetah, although with our DE and oversized LB ranks depleted, not sure Cheetah is much in the plans right now...

Yes because he'd playing a little deeper in depth and the 3 man front would have different spacing. As a LB he'd have a better angle to not need to engage the OT and could go inside or outside with speed rather than power.

An interesting quirk of ratio and depth chart for this game.

We're playing an import short so Lucky O could start in theory. On the depth chart he's not, he's the backup. In theory an import or global can't directly replace a Canadian

OTOH, neither an import, import DI or global can replace a starting Canadian.

We're starting 11 Canadians. A Canadian can replace any nationality at any time.

I'll take this to mean we're starting a Canadian in front of an import roster spot, which then allows another import to rotate for the Canadian rotating in for the import.

Hilarious how that works out. I would have thought listing him as a starter would make sense even if that was only for the 1st drive.

That would've made it easier to rotate in other DL without any possible confusion. That said, several of our imports will be non starting, non DI's that can rotate with Canadians as well.

If they declare "2 nats on D, 5 nats on O", it doesn't matter where they line up, right? 

As long as there are at least 2 nats on the field on D and 5 on O every play.

Who subs for who is irrelevant, so long as the proper passports are represented.

Having this much ratio flexibility makes it almost impossible to have an invalid squad on the field.

What is the penalty for an invalid squad, and have we seen that called ever?

Quote from: theaardvark on July 11, 2024, 09:03:25 PMIf they declare "2 nats on D, 5 nats on O", it doesn't matter where they line up, right? 

As long as there are at least 2 nats on the field on D and 5 on O every play.

Who subs for who is irrelevant, so long as the proper passports are represented.

Having this much ratio flexibility makes it almost impossible to have an invalid squad on the field.

What is the penalty for an invalid squad, and have we seen that called ever?

Yes it matters. Normally we start 6 on offence and 1 on defence. You have to declare DI's. At the moment we're starting 7 on offence and 4 on defence. We'll have imports that are not starting but not DI's.

As I said, a DI has to replace an import. The non starting imports will have a different set of conditions and that's where it gets confusing.

I don't remember any team starting 11 Canadians in the past, so how any of this can be bent, I'm not sure.

I don't remember a penalty ever being called and I doubt we'll draw one this week because of all the twists in our roster.

It would be useful to know who our DI's are to further evaluate.

Example: Ford is injured and replaced by Griffith who is not classified as a DI. That's not a problem. If he is classified as a DI it is a problem.

My guess is our DI's are: Castillo, Smith, Mitchell and Ayers.

Here is an example that will never happen but it's the math involved deciding on DI's, no DI's and Canadian starters and the timing of who can do what.

Bombers 2nd offensive series:

1. Streveler goes on the field for Clercius. We can have 2 QB's on the field but he'd normally replace an import.
2. Williams goes on the field for Woli
3. Smith goes on the field for Oliveria

That leaves 3 OL and Demski as the Canadian starters on the field in the 1st series.

Bombers 2nd defensive series:

1. Cole goes on the field for Kramdi
2. Griffith goes on the field for Ford.
3. Adams goes on the field for Hubert


That leaves Thomas as the only Canadian starter on defence and back to back series.  That makes 5 in total.

Obviously the offence and defence are not on the field at the same time. How does having started 11 Canadians in the 1st series on either side relate to what happens in the next series.

This is just hypothetical ratio math trying to show why it's important to know who are the DI's and how many Canadians MUST start on either side of the ball to reach 7.

Based on the possible replacements I'd suggest a 5 and 2 combination as the minimum. That's based on who on the roster would be likely subs on both sides of the ball.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 11, 2024, 11:13:58 PMHere is an example that will never happen but it's the math involved deciding on DI's, no DI's and Canadian starters and the timing of who can do what.

Bombers 2nd offensive series:

1. Streveler goes on the field for Clercius. We can have 2 QB's on the field but he'd normally replace an import.
2. Williams goes on the field for Woli
3. Smith goes on the field for Oliveria

That leaves 3 OL and Demski as the Canadian starters on the field in the 1st series.

Bombers 2nd defensive series:

1. Cole goes on the field for Kramdi
2. Griffith goes on the field for Ford.
3. Adams goes on the field for Hubert


That leaves Thomas as the only Canadian starter on defence and back to back series.  That makes 5 in total.

Obviously the offence and defence are not on the field at the same time. How does having started 11 Canadians in the 1st series on either side relate to what happens in the next series.

This is just hypothetical ratio math trying to show why it's important to know who are the DI's and how many Canadians MUST start on either side of the ball to reach 7.

Based on the possible replacements I'd suggest a 5 and 2 combination as the minimum. That's based on who on the roster would be likely subs on both sides of the ball.

Ford is not coming off for Griffth, he is one of your best DBs in coverage.

Quote from: RebusRankin on July 11, 2024, 03:51:28 PMSeriously, what other team does Jake Thomas start for in the CFL because I don't see one.

Any team that needs an extra NAT on D.  Fatboi is better than many teams' "hiding the NAT" FSs or LBs.

Would anyone start Fatboi when they didn't need the ratio help and had a Stove on the roster?  No, of course not.  But in the CFL, that isn't always the question, is it.

I'd argue Fatboi is more effective this year than Ted Laurent was last year.  And he was starting.  He's also probably as effective as Laing is the last couple of seasons.

Quote from: blue_or_die on July 11, 2024, 06:37:21 PMWhy do you hate Thomas?

Ya, show me on the doll where Fatboi touched you!   :D  :D  :D  :D

Quote from: theaardvark on July 11, 2024, 09:03:25 PMWhat is the penalty for an invalid squad, and have we seen that called ever?

I think some team got fined or reprimanded (or both) both ratio violation after-the-fact the last year or 2?

I've never seen an on-field flag for ratio violations.  However, in theory there is someone supposed to be paying attention to these things... maybe the same dude who is counting the 23 snaps for DNAs.

Also, the teams are so used to handling ratio properly that I bet it's just second nature.  It probably would require an intent to cheat in order to screw up at this point.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 11, 2024, 10:15:22 PMIt would be useful to know who our DI's are to further evaluate.

You're telling me!  Our charts haven't shown the DI designation all season... even though it's required BY RULE.  Posters here keep assuring me there's some hidden and special FOR-CFL-EYES-ONLY chart that supersedes the chart us mere peasants get to see.  They assure me this ultra-secret chart lists the DIs as required BY RULE.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2024, 03:09:32 AMYou're telling me!  Our charts haven't shown the DI designation all season... even though it's required BY RULE.  Posters here keep assuring me there's some hidden and special FOR-CFL-EYES-ONLY chart that supersedes the chart us mere peasants get to see.  They assure me this ultra-secret chart lists the DIs as required BY RULE.

The game sheet lists the roster (and much more) and will include all of the necessary information including, DAs, DNAs, Designated QBs, etc.

Prior to 2023, these sheets were collected by the game supervisor and distributed to the necessary parties. The sheets were required 1 hour prior to kickoff.

As of 2023, the game sheet must be submitted to the league office 24 hours prior to kickoff. Changes (within league approval) can be made up to 30 minutes prior to game time. Everything is now administered electronically.

Quote from: Stats Junkie on July 12, 2024, 04:50:45 AMAs of 2023, the game sheet must be submitted to the league office 24 hours prior to kickoff. Changes (within league approval) can be made up to 30 minutes prior to game time. Everything is now administered electronically.

Ok, thanks!  But my big question, still left unanswered after years of asking is:

Does the public have access to that official game sheet somehow?  (How? or why not?)

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2024, 06:01:06 AMOk, thanks!  But my big question, still left unanswered after years of asking is:

Does the public have access to that official game sheet somehow?  (How? or why not?)

Does the public have access to internal documents filed at your place of work? Not likely and it's none of their business.

Re: the CFL, the document available to the public is the depth chart.

Quote from: Stats Junkie on July 12, 2024, 06:05:33 AMDoes the public have access to internal documents filed at your place of work? Not likely and it's none of their business.

Re: the CFL, the document available to the public is the depth chart.

But the chart the public gets is missing many key components.  For instance, the WPG charts (such as this week's one I link to below) never list who are the DAs (nee DIs).  And who knows, maybe we also specify DNA/DNS (as also required by rule) in the "hidden" sheet, but clearly we never do on the public chart.

And your comparison to a "normal" place of work is disingenuous.  The CFL is producing a public product, for public consumption, and with major real world monetary consequences for third parties (i.e. the gambling industry) that is directly influenced by the pre-game information teams provide.  It's not like who our DAs are is the formula for Coca Cola Classic.  We're not talking internal memos from HR about what Bomber Store staff should be hired or fired.

If the public chart is a second class citizen, merely to placate the masses, what's to keep teams from just lying, or putting down nonsense?

And what do the other teams get to see?  The official sheet or just the public chart?  If other teams get to see the official sheet, then that makes the comparison to a normal place of work even more absurd... because Coke doesn't share their formula with Pepsi.

A lot of us fans get frustrated that we're left guessing who the DAs are each week.  Other teams publicly announce their DAs on their charts.  Do you think it's an unreasonable ask that us fans should receive the rule-mandated DA/DNA/DNS information, as most teams already provide?

And what's the harm in sharing the simple, rule-mandated information with the public?  You make it sound like it's some closely guarded trade-secret that no one should have any business seeing.  Stepping back for a sec, the whole situation looks rather silly.

https://static.cfl.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2024/07/CALGARY-AT-WINNIPEG_JULY-12.pdf

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on July 12, 2024, 02:46:53 AMFord is not coming off for Griffth, he is one of your best DBs in coverage.

If an injury occurs.  It was just a hypothetical example of who might be the next man up and how it might be part of the ratio requirements etc.

Our once-feared DL and LB is thing of the past. Not sure this version of DL will produce some pressure on Maier and co. Mike O'Stubborn will cause another loss because of his poor roster management.
 

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 12, 2024, 01:33:47 PMIf an injury occurs.  It was just a hypothetical example of who might be the next man up and how it might be part of the ratio requirements etc.

It was a terrible example.  If you had said for injury that would've been better.

Quote from: CrazyCanuck89 on July 12, 2024, 01:59:38 PMIt was a terrible example.  If you had said for injury that would've been better.

If you were following the conversation this was a question about ratio, declared starters, DI's and what the options might be.

Also I did specifically say in my example " if Ford was injured ".  Re-read post # 140. :)

Here is another example; Smith is probably listed as a DI. Now if Oliveria is injured we will see Augustine take up his role. OTOH, if Smith was not designated as a DI, he could take on Oliveria's role.

Obviously Augustine is a veteran, more familiar with the playbook etc etc.  There is a risk of using your returner on too many plays on offence. Not only due to possible injury but just workload.

We haven't seen enough of Smith as an actual RB. The question is he a better choice at RB as next man up in case of injury? Because we're starting more Canadians, that is why the classification selection is important.

Given the previous example of Ford, it makes more sense to not have Griffith as a DI. We don't have as good an option to replace him with a veteran Canadian per se. It would likely mean Alexander moving up from safety and Hallett going in at safety.

That's an arguable discussion point of which is the better option.

I would like Collaros to throw to receivers that are getting open, and not look only for Demski, wolitarski.

Streveller was able to do this, surely Zach can as well.

Quote from: markf on July 12, 2024, 02:33:04 PMI would like Collaros to throw to receivers that are getting open, and not look only for Demski, wolitarski.

Streveller was able to do this, surely Zach can as well.

These guys were taking turns playing in their first games when Zach was in. Maybe now that he's actually practiced with them and they have a couple game under their belt, they'll be open for him.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 11, 2024, 06:47:53 PMIf Lucky O is undersized, is running him in a 4-3 any different than running a 3-4?

Just saying, we've been effective in a 3-4 and in a cheetah, although with our DE and oversized LB ranks depleted, not sure Cheetah is much in the plans right now...

If you take a close look at D Line play this year, we sometimes have the ends lined up on the line before a snap, or we have D Ends creeping from linebacker depth before the snap..so we're sometimes bringing the ends from depth like what could happen in a 3 4 set...pretty neat wrinkle...

Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 12, 2024, 03:18:23 PMIf you take a close look at D Line play this year, we sometimes have the ends lined up on the line before a snap, or we have D Ends creeping from linebacker depth before the snap..so we're sometimes bringing the ends from depth like what could happen in a 3 4 set...pretty neat wrinkle...

It means we use speed more than brawn in those situations. 34 defences were good at the time and effective at times now. Defenders can come from multiple locations, depths and time within a play. Or they can drop into coverage at times like Bighill does.

Cole would be another example. He could line up as a LB, rush the QB, fill a running gap or drop into coverage.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 07, 2024, 03:15:54 PMI think we escaped this weeks game without losing anyone else to injury. Banged and bruised but able to play.

OTOH, I'm not so sure Calgary might not be missing some players this week. All their RB's have really been banged up.

Oliveria is healthy, angry and ready to run over and through players. Whether Streveler starts or sees a more limited role, he probably will see the field in some fashion to pound their defence. It's a short week for a road game for the Stamps.

Calgary hasn't looked that good against the run, so we need to continue what we did this week. Perhaps not quite to that extent. A good run game helps win LOS, TOP and field position.

This game is within reach of winning. Home crowd may be the difference needed.

Agreed...definitely within the realm of possibilities for the Bombers right now albeit the Stamps always play us tough!  Zach must be the Zach we have grown to love and appreciate and he needs to be the difference maker in this game

This game although early in the season is like a playoff game, we need to beat Calgary and Edmonton to get into the playoff race, lose and we re one step closer to the sidelines come playoffs

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2024, 07:05:00 AMBut the chart the public gets is missing many key components.  For instance, the WPG charts (such as this week's one I link to below) never list who are the DAs (nee DIs).  And who knows, maybe we also specify DNA/DNS (as also required by rule) in the "hidden" sheet, but clearly we never do on the public chart.

And your comparison to a "normal" place of work is disingenuous.  The CFL is producing a public product, for public consumption, and with major real world monetary consequences for third parties (i.e. the gambling industry) that is directly influenced by the pre-game information teams provide.  It's not like who our DAs are is the formula for Coca Cola Classic.  We're not talking internal memos from HR about what Bomber Store staff should be hired or fired.

If the public chart is a second class citizen, merely to placate the masses, what's to keep teams from just lying, or putting down nonsense?

And what do the other teams get to see?  The official sheet or just the public chart?  If other teams get to see the official sheet, then that makes the comparison to a normal place of work even more absurd... because Coke doesn't share their formula with Pepsi.

A lot of us fans get frustrated that we're left guessing who the DAs are each week.  Other teams publicly announce their DAs on their charts.  Do you think it's an unreasonable ask that us fans should receive the rule-mandated DA/DNA/DNS information, as most teams already provide?

And what's the harm in sharing the simple, rule-mandated information with the public?  You make it sound like it's some closely guarded trade-secret that no one should have any business seeing.  Stepping back for a sec, the whole situation looks rather silly.

https://static.cfl.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2024/07/CALGARY-AT-WINNIPEG_JULY-12.pdf

I just did a very quick scan of depth charts for all 9 teams. Looks like BC and Winnipeg are the only two teams that don't list DA's on their publicly-posted depth charts. Having said this, to derive the DA's, can't I just look at any import that's listed as a backup and assume that they are a DA?

Quote from: pdirks67 on July 12, 2024, 05:46:52 PMI just did a very quick scan of depth charts for all 9 teams. Looks like BC and Winnipeg are the only two teams that don't list DA's on their publicly-posted depth charts. Having said this, to derive the DA's, can't I just look at any import that's listed as a backup and assume that they are a DA?

Harder to do when you are starting 11 Canadians. Easy to do when you are starting only 7.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 12, 2024, 03:00:25 AMAny team that needs an extra NAT on D.  Fatboi is better than many teams' "hiding the NAT" FSs or LBs.

Would anyone start Fatboi when they didn't need the ratio help and had a Stove on the roster?  No, of course not.  But in the CFL, that isn't always the question, is it.

I'd argue Fatboi is more effective this year than Ted Laurent was last year.  And he was starting.  He's also probably as effective as Laing is the last couple of seasons.

He doesn't start over Johnson and Wynn in Montreal. Ditto over Sayles and Hendrix in Hamilton. Same with Banks and Covington in BC. Toronto doesn't start him over Ceresna and Brinkman. Calgary starts Rose and Coatney over him no question. Don't see him starting in Saskatchewan.

Claiming that he's better than teams 7th national starter isn't the flex you think it is.

Jake has never been a guy who should be starting and he's definitely not that now. The fact that we've got a subpar pass rush and are the worst in the league against the run are two huge reasons why he's a waste of a starting spot.

Better than Laurent or Laing, what are you smoking?

Quote from: RebusRankin on July 12, 2024, 06:29:14 PMHe doesn't start over Johnson and Wynn in Montreal. Ditto over Sayles and Hendrix in Hamilton. Same with Banks and Covington in BC. Toronto doesn't start him over Ceresna and Brinkman. Calgary starts Rose and Coatney over him no question. Don't see him starting in Saskatchewan.

Claiming that he's better than teams 7th national starter isn't the flex you think it is.

Jake has never been a guy who should be starting and he's definitely not that now. The fact that we've got a subpar pass rush and are the worst in the league against the run are two huge reasons why he's a waste of a starting spot.

Better than Laurent or Laing, what are you smoking?

The sad part is Jake Thomas got our only sack of the night in tonight's game. That speaks volumes of how bad our defensive line really is. A guy who arguably shouldn't be starting got our only sack. Boom, mike drop!!

Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 03:31:13 AMThe sad part is Jake Thomas got our only sack of the night in tonight's game. That speaks volumes of how bad our defensive line really is. A guy who arguably shouldn't be starting got our only sack. Boom, mike drop!!

Seriously. All game I was thinking we should cut him this weekend. Totally ineffective. We may as well start another rookie to see if he has upside.

Of course that would mean we'd have to have one available on the PR. Maybe we should activate Samson for next week and get him some reps. I'm not sure if Schmekel saw any reps?

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 03:56:11 AMSeriously. All game I was thinking we should cut him this weekend. Totally ineffective. We may as well start another rookie to see if he has upside.

Of course that would mean we'd have to have one available on the PR. Maybe we should activate Samson for next week and get him some reps. I'm not sure if Schmekel saw any reps?

Schmekel say a couple reps at least. We have Woods and Adams, no need to start Jake if we didn't want to.

Quote from: RebusRankin on July 12, 2024, 06:29:14 PMHe doesn't start over Johnson and Wynn in Montreal. Ditto over Sayles and Hendrix in Hamilton. Same with Banks and Covington in BC. Toronto doesn't start him over Ceresna and Brinkman. Calgary starts Rose and Coatney over him no question. Don't see him starting in Saskatchewan.

How many of those are NATs?  None?  Unfair comparison.

Yes, teams generally never start NATs at DT.  They are about as rare as NAT QBs, or good NAT HBs.  But yet a select few teams have chosen, over the years, to start a NAT DT, and I listed some names.

When we had/have our normal 7 NAT starters, we chose to start Fatboi because we didn't have a 7th NAT we could put elsewhere that we thought was as good at their position.  Otherwise clearly we wouldn't start Fatboi.  Right now, we don't think we have better IMPs at DT to start, or we'd clearly start an IMP NAT.

The isn't Fatboi's fault, it's our scouts.  If you think Fatboi shouldn't be starting, and that what I"m saying is wrong, then explain why MOS/Younger are

Quote from: RebusRankin on July 12, 2024, 06:29:14 PMJake has never been a guy who should be starting and he's definitely not that now. The fact that we've got a subpar pass rush and are the worst in the league against the run are two huge reasons why he's a waste of a starting spot.

Fatboi's subpar pass rush just sealed us the game tonight... cough cough

Quote from: RebusRankin on July 12, 2024, 06:29:14 PMBetter than Laurent or Laing, what are you smoking?

Better than Laurent in his prime, no, definitely not.  Better than Laurent in 2023?  Sure, I'll bite, if it's not just about stats, but overall impact that HC/DCs notice.  And Laruent is retired now, so...

Quote from: pdirks67 on July 12, 2024, 05:46:52 PMI just did a very quick scan of depth charts for all 9 teams. Looks like BC and Winnipeg are the only two teams that don't list DA's on their publicly-posted depth charts. Having said this, to derive the DA's, can't I just look at any import that's listed as a backup and assume that they are a DA?

For sure you can! ... When a team starts 7 NATs (+1 VETIMP).  Like we used to nearly forever, and like most teams still do!

Because we start >7 NATs when we don't have to, and because the league apparently hoards this information by keeping their special "secret sheets", who the heck knows the exact status of any IMP on our AR!  Your guess is as good as mine.

Even by carefully monitoring who goes in/out and when you may not be able to fully derive exactly who the 4 DAs are.  The only one we know with certainty is Castillo, eh?  And I guess returner Smith, assuming he isn't charted anywhere on O.

Y'all are still bashing Fatboi after tonight's game?!  Let me repeat my line again:

Fatboi's subpar pass rush just sealed us the game tonight... cough cough

Who here wasn't nervous as heck as Maier started driving the field again that they would easily score again?  Ya, I was.  I thought no way we stop them, as we pretty much didn't all night.  Mills was going to run for 35 again or Begelton was going to be wide open 20Y downfield in the soft zone.

Ya, Fatboi got the job done and made them kick it away when it was almost certainly 3-down territory for CGY.  You can rip on Fatboi next week, but right now I think he's earned some nice silence from the peanut gallery.  I look forward to watching the PVR to focus on Fatboi to see what good stuff he was doing all night long.

I'll tell you what's going to happen in MOS's pressers and coach show: he's going to tout Fatboi 100%.

Thomas not good enough to start they cried.....

Love the support for Thomas from some and the haters double down, classic, he has always made plays, so proud of his longevity, yes not a top guy but you can't afford aces at every position

Wilson not good enough they claimed.....

Ok I'm sure few seen this coming what a game

Zach done they chimed in....

Overcomes adversity.

Scouts didn't bring in talent they suggested.....
We did ok.

We back! Great game keep it rolling Blue!

How many defensive snaps are there in a game guys?

One snap does not mean you played a good game. Especially when they scored 37 on us.

And before you just cry, "hater". No one has said anything other than he's more of a role player. It doesn't take anything away from his long career with our club or all he's accomplished.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 13, 2024, 06:24:33 AMHow many of those are NATs?  None?  Unfair comparison.

Yes, teams generally never start NATs at DT.  They are about as rare as NAT QBs, or good NAT HBs.  But yet a select few teams have chosen, over the years, to start a NAT DT, and I listed some names.

When we had/have our normal 7 NAT starters, we chose to start Fatboi because we didn't have a 7th NAT we could put elsewhere that we thought was as good at their position.  Otherwise clearly we wouldn't start Fatboi.  Right now, we don't think we have better IMPs at DT to start, or we'd clearly start an IMP NAT.

The isn't Fatboi's fault, it's our scouts.  If you think Fatboi shouldn't be starting, and that what I"m saying is wrong, then explain why MOS/Younger are

Fatboi's subpar pass rush just sealed us the game tonight... cough cough

Better than Laurent in his prime, no, definitely not.  Better than Laurent in 2023?  Sure, I'll bite, if it's not just about stats, but overall impact that HC/DCs notice.  And Laruent is retired now, so...

Sure Fatboi got a sack, but he was only double teamed on that play...

Thomas is not the most skilled, fastest or strongest player out there, and at tackle, draws his share of double teams. The big thing with Thomas, slow as he is, is he never takes a play off, and always, always fights to get through every play. And admire his effort and heart

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 13, 2024, 06:24:33 AMHow many of those are NATs?  None?  Unfair comparison.

Yes, teams generally never start NATs at DT.  They are about as rare as NAT QBs, or good NAT HBs.  But yet a select few teams have chosen, over the years, to start a NAT DT, and I listed some names.

When we had/have our normal 7 NAT starters, we chose to start Fatboi because we didn't have a 7th NAT we could put elsewhere that we thought was as good at their position.  Otherwise clearly we wouldn't start Fatboi.  Right now, we don't think we have better IMPs at DT to start, or we'd clearly start an IMP NAT.

The isn't Fatboi's fault, it's our scouts.  If you think Fatboi shouldn't be starting, and that what I"m saying is wrong, then explain why MOS/Younger are

Fatboi's subpar pass rush just sealed us the game tonight... cough cough

Better than Laurent in his prime, no, definitely not.  Better than Laurent in 2023?  Sure, I'll bite, if it's not just about stats, but overall impact that HC/DCs notice.  And Laruent is retired now, so...

The sack was great but it wasn't caused by Jake. It was a coverage sack and Adams flushed the QB and Jake cleaned up.

We don't have a 7th starter that could be in over Jake? Hmm, Neufeld, Dobson, Kolo, Demski, Woli, Brady, Ford and Kramdi = 8.

You can post all the nonsense you want but its clear Jake isn't good enough.

Jake Thomas fights for every rep, and give 110% on every snap. 

He makes plays, a knockdown last game, a sack this one. 

He may not be the best DT in the league, but no one works harder. 

Is that enough to be in the lineup as a starter?  With 5 DL on the IR, the Bombers are very lucky to have someone of his ability there to fill in.

As the bodies come off IR, he will return to being a very effective rotational player. 

For now, he starts, and would very likely start on any team with 5 DL on the IR.

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 13, 2024, 06:46:02 AMThomas not good enough to start they cried.....

Love the support for Thomas from some and the haters double down, classic, he has always made plays, so proud of his longevity, yes not a top guy but you can't afford aces at every position

Wilson not good enough they claimed.....

Ok I'm sure few seen this coming what a game

Zach done they chimed in....

Overcomes adversity.

Scouts didn't bring in talent they suggested.....
We did ok.

We back! Great game keep it rolling Blue!

There you go again. The majority have said he is not good enough to start. That has been the comment all of 2023.

You define those of us that say about any player that as " haters".  You can call it your opinion but it is contrary to the majority of posters. That is why I continue to say what you say is not a truth but a misguided loyalty.

Quote from: RebusRankin on July 13, 2024, 05:43:45 PMThe sack was great but it wasn't caused by Jake. It was a coverage sack and Adams flushed the QB and Jake cleaned up.

We don't have a 7th starter that could be in over Jake? Hmm, Neufeld, Dobson, Kolo, Demski, Woli, Brady, Ford and Kramdi = 8.

You can post all the nonsense you want but its clear Jake isn't good enough.

It's pretty clear the Bomber coaching staff doesn't agree with your opinion on the matter. Sorry, you don't get to vote Jake off the field.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 13, 2024, 06:45:34 PMIt's pretty clear the Bomber coaching staff doesn't agree with your opinion on the matter. Sorry, you don't get to vote Jake off the field.

We don't need to have a Canadian starter at DT. If Lawson was healthy, he was expected to fill that role as starter. There was no need to employ a Canadian DT considering the number of other Canadians.

The real complaint is that knowing we had issues on the DL, we didn't resolve this with scouting of imports to take on that role. At least it doesn't seem we have definitive proof we succeeded in that search.

Obviously this was complicated due to large number of injuries on the DL,but really only 1 that is a DT.

So by default, we don't have another body that could really take snaps at DT. Samson is on the IR and a pure rookie. Schmekel is available but has not shown anything yet.

So I'd argue Thomas NEEDS to start due to the lack of scouting alternatives and the current injury situation.

Needing to start is not the same as he should be starting is the argument. Of course we don't get to vote on which player has what role.

The same argument would be made if Augustine was forced into a starting role. Again we don't need to have a Canadian RB starting but what would the alternative be if Oliveria was injured for multiple games. From a ratio point of view we could start an import there.

IDK if Smith might take on that role if we had an injury We have possible alternatives at returner. OTOH, I would think we'd have an import on the PR as depth at the very least.

Management, scouting and coaches need to have a succession / contingency plan for key players.  Next to our QB, our game revolves around our run game.

I don't expect to have the next superstar as a replacement sitting on the PR, but I do expect someone better than a warm body.

Jake Thomas is not a "warm body".  He has been a stalwart competitor for years with this team, and plays the function of a rotational DT quite well.

The fact he has been pressed into starting duties and is handling those duties admirably is testament to his work ethic, drive and talent.  Is he a 100% of snaps starter in this league?  I don't think anyone thinks he is (Jake might, but he's biased).

But don't belittle his contribution to the team.  Or his commitment.  And do not dismiss him as easily replaceable.  While we may not *need* his passport for our ratio, he serves a very big role on the team.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 13, 2024, 09:07:53 PMJake Thomas is not a "warm body".  He has been a stalwart competitor for years with this team, and plays the function of a rotational DT quite well.

The fact he has been pressed into starting duties and is handling those duties admirably is testament to his work ethic, drive and talent.  Is he a 100% of snaps starter in this league?  I don't think anyone thinks he is (Jake might, but he's biased).

But don't belittle his contribution to the team.  Or his commitment.  And do not dismiss him as easily replaceable.  While we may not *need* his passport for our ratio, he serves a very big role on the team.

The argument is whether he should be a starter. That answer is no. We all understand how the injury situation has prompted the need for him to see more reps.

However as many have pointed out, we knew we had DL issues going into TC and should have been looking at more bodies at DT. It didn't need to be a Canadian choice although there were some available in free agency. Logic would suggest an import on an ELC would have made the most sense from an SMS point of view.

We could have had Oakman as a short term player added at DT. He had 27 DT's and 6 sacks last year. That is more than any season Thomas has had.

I think we felt we'd prefer a rookie on an ELC that was younger, had more upside and would be on a 2 year deal.

At 6'7" he'd create more problems in finding passing lanes at the very least.

Thomas isn't the sole reason our DL is not playing well but the rookies have possible upside and have been improving.

Our DL as a group is the weak link on our defence.

Past 5 game cumulative stats: 640 yards rushing given up and we've only achieved 6 sacks. I'm not sure if that is the worst in the CFL at this point but it's certainly not good.

By no means has anybody including me has belittled his cumulative contribution or his commitment during his career.

It also doesn't mean he's not past his best before date or couldn't have easily been replaced with an import in TC if we'd have brought in more than Fox and Woods. At this point he is just a warm body, essentially last man standing, next man up.

That means he could be ok in limited, situational reps as the rotation player.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on July 13, 2024, 06:45:34 PMIt's pretty clear the Bomber coaching staff doesn't agree with your opinion on the matter. Sorry, you don't get to vote Jake off the field.

Never said I had that option but thanks for creating a strawman. Pretty sure I'm allowed to voice my opinion and others can disagree like you do. But to tackle your point, doesn't mean the coaching staff is always right. 7 sacks in 6 games and the worst rush defense in the CFL would indicate there are issues with the defense right now.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 06:19:45 PMThere you go again. The majority have said he is not good enough to start. That has been the comment all of 2023.

You define those of us that say about any player that as " haters".  You can call it your opinion but it is contrary to the majority of posters. That is why I continue to say what you say is not a truth but a misguided loyalty.

Never called anyone a hater from what I can remember.  Let's focus on the facts and the team please.  There is no misguided loyalty to Thomas, I like some others on here think Thomas can still contribute.  It's not about the truth but a debate on opinions.  Truth is management trusts Thomas to continue to get reps.  They know more than us.  I have always liked Thomas over the years.  I defend him when they brought him back and others said he wasn't good enough.  The two cups tells me he was a good depth piece and he continues to be just that.  He makes plays when you need him.  We can agree to disagree here.

Quote from: theaardvark on July 13, 2024, 09:07:53 PMJake Thomas is not a "warm body".  He has been a stalwart competitor for years with this team, and plays the function of a rotational DT quite well.

The fact he has been pressed into starting duties and is handling those duties admirably is testament to his work ethic, drive and talent.  Is he a 100% of snaps starter in this league?  I don't think anyone thinks he is (Jake might, but he's biased).

But don't belittle his contribution to the team.  Or his commitment.  And do not dismiss him as easily replaceable.  While we may not *need* his passport for our ratio, he serves a very big role on the team.

Agree all

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 13, 2024, 11:39:31 PMNever called anyone a hater from what I can remember.  Let's focus on the facts and the team please.  There is no misguided loyalty to Thomas, I like some others on here think Thomas can still contribute.  It's not about the truth but a debate on opinions.  Truth is management trusts Thomas to continue to get reps.  They know more than us.  I have always liked Thomas over the years.  I defend him when they brought him back and others said he wasn't good enough.  The two cups tells me he was a good depth piece and he continues to be just that.  He makes plays when you need him.facts are presented above

Re-read your previous post when you said the haters doubled down. Are you that delusional?? And just because others don't have the same rosy red poly Anna outlook and disagree with your opinion doesn't make them a hater. Nobody on here hates the bombers, but we are free to voice whatever opinion we have without the passive-aggressive attacks by yourself.

Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 11:58:59 PMRe-read your previous post when you said the haters doubled down. Are you that delusional?? And just because others don't have the same rosy red poly Anna outlook and disagree with your opinion doesn't make them a hater. Nobody on here hates the bombers, but we are free to voice whatever opinion we have without the passive-aggressive attacks by yourself.

Bad memory that does ring a bell, my bad.   We were talking about Thomas here.  I like him and happy with the reps he is getting, others don't agree with that.  Two sides to every story.  Let's focus on the debate about the club not me.  No need for the name calling or the personal shots. 
I won't use the term haters going forward.

Let's judge Thomas based on his stats at the end of the year.

lol...zach has had one good half in 4 games this season and every1 thinks he is back to being the messiah...last season he was hot and cold and the d got him out of a few loses to wins....lets wait and see if he has returned to former self of 2 years ago before seeing if he is for real....

Quote from: Go_Big_D on July 14, 2024, 12:42:11 AMlol...zach has had one good half in 4 games this season and every1 thinks he is back to being the messiah...last season he was hot and cold and the d got him out of a few loses to wins....lets wait and see if he has returned to former self of 2 years ago before seeing if he is for real....

He is playing better and has been nothing but exceptional for us with limited bad games.  Yes he will go cold once and awhile but few QBs are able to avoid that.

Count me on the side that likes him. Thomas has a motor and as someone else said, he never takes a play off. I often see him double teamed. If he is tying up two OL that has to create opportunity for someone else. He's one of those rare breed that will wear down an OL by the third and fourth quarters -- the guy just doesn't stop.

He sets a great example and will be successful in any endeavour he takes on in life because he gets it. He could play for me any time and I'd be happy to have him.

All teams are a work in progress. No team has all aspects of the game accounted for with the best personnel. You have to determine where best to spend the money you have available. Mistakes will be made and circumstances beyond control will happen to derail the best laid plans of mice and men. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't, but a 50% win rate in the last four Grey Cups indicates whatever process is being used to make decisions is a good one.

one of the things we did different this game was throwing more quick outs and letting recievers make plays. It also took off some of the pressure on Zac and opened up run game

Quote from: Pete on July 14, 2024, 02:28:38 AMone of the things we did different this game was throwing more quick outs and letting recievers make plays. It also took off some of the pressure on Zac and opened up run game

Agree. I think Buck deserves some love here as he has made adjustments that needed to be made to take advantage of the players he has to work with and their skill sets. It has been a tall order with so much change but I think he's got a good handle on it now. I expect he'll be better able to make adjustments on the fly now too.

Zach also deserves credit for executing those changes at a high level. We are figuring out what we've got and how to use it on all sides of the ball and the players are buying in. Once this team fully gels it's going to be interesting to see what they can do

Quote from: dd on July 13, 2024, 04:34:05 PMThomas is not the most skilled, fastest or strongest player out there, and at tackle, draws his share of double teams. The big thing with Thomas, slow as he is, is he never takes a play off, and always, always fights to get through every play. And admire his effort and heart

This 100%.  Watch a game watching just Fatboi.  He just goes and goes and goes until the whistle, every time.  Watch other DTs on other teams, they do their first 3s of effort and then often back off, because they know the sack window has passed.

Someone complained Fatboi was "running in circles" sometimes: ya, that's because he doesn't stop running until the whistle!  If the play is going in circles around him, he's running those same circles to get to the ball.  It's not an insult, it's a compliment!

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 09:26:00 PMThe argument is whether he should be a starter. That answer is no. We all understand how the injury situation has prompted the need for him to see more reps.

Think back to the off-season.  I'm pretty sure most of us had Fatboi slotted in as starting.  At worst we had him slotted in like 2023 with Fatboi/Lawson sharing a spot, with an IMP taking the other one.  Many wanted to see a progression where Lawson gets more snaps as Fatboi is slowly phased out this (or next) season.

Was anyone surprised when the week 1 chart came out and Fatboi was the starter?  Definitely not.  You find me a post by someone who said boo at the time.  Saying Fatboi is starting just because of injury is retconning.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 13, 2024, 09:26:00 PMPast 5 game cumulative stats: 640 yards rushing given up and we've only achieved 6 sacks. I'm not sure if that is the worst in the CFL at this point but it's certainly not good.

You think that's all or even mostly on the DL?  Have you seen how our D leaves the flat completely wide open with 30Y windows in all directions?  Have you seen how our LBers are having trouble against the run?  The FS isn't doing his run-stop job either, and the DBs are all whiffing in space.  Only Holm seems capable of catching lowly big not-super-fast RBs once they get going.

Ya, the entire D is to blame for the run explosions of the last couple of weeks (and the ugly tone-setter by Stanback in the GC).  For some reason teams will always limit Brady to 5 to 15, and he never gets a 40 lately, but we leave wide open swathes of field for opponent runners to go crazy.  I really don't get why this is.

Fatboi has started all but 0-2 games per season in every single year except his first.  That's 10 full seasons of basically never missing a game and never being injured.

For a DT.

That's absolutely incredible and I'm not sure that has ever been matched in the CFL.  Think back to all our IMP DTs, ya, they get hurt all the time.  Look at Nevis and Stove after they left: nothing but tub.

A solid, never-injured guy with a good motor who knows the playbook better than anyone and seems to do what they ask of him to perfection?  And he has a NAT passport?  And he doesn't break the bank?  Holy smokes, sign me up!!  He's like manna from heaven.  Literally the last player on the D we should be harping on right now.

If you want to replace Fatboi, find the next Stove.  Then I'll get onboard.  Until then...

Quote from: Pete on July 14, 2024, 02:28:38 AMone of the things we did different this game was throwing more quick outs and letting recievers make plays. It also took off some of the pressure on Zac and opened up run game

The fact that Wilson (and Woli) caught almost every catchable ball throw their way was huge for Zach.  Zach started a bit iffy, but even that throw-behind to Demski was catchable.  And Zach FINALLY dialed things in, unlike the other games where he couldn't.

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 13, 2024, 11:39:31 PMNever called anyone a hater from what I can remember.  Let's focus on the facts and the team please.  There is no misguided loyalty to Thomas, I like some others on here think Thomas can still contribute.  It's not about the truth but a debate on opinions.  Truth is management trusts Thomas to continue to get reps.  They know more than us.  I have always liked Thomas over the years.  I defend him when they brought him back and others said he wasn't good enough.  The two cups tells me he was a good depth piece and he continues to be just that.  He makes plays when you need him.  We can agree to disagree here.

facts are presented above

Best to keep in mind the views expressed here are not necessarily "facts".  They are opinions and they are opinions from fans most of whom have little or no experience running a team or playing on a professional level.

This is a forum for fan participation.  Very few are professional players, owners or represent management.  Every fan's opinion matters as long as it doesn't violate the rules here.  They don't need to be told their views are off base, unfair, over the top or any other personal jab.

Views presented can be debated, challenged or ignored. 

But negative comments addressed to the person and/or the validity of their opinion/view is not acceptable.  It's not up for discussion.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 14, 2024, 06:02:49 AMThink back to the off-season.  I'm pretty sure most of us had Fatboi slotted in as starting.  At worst we had him slotted in like 2023 with Fatboi/Lawson sharing a spot, with an IMP taking the other one.  Many wanted to see a progression where Lawson gets more snaps as Fatboi is slowly phased out this (or next) season.

Was anyone surprised when the week 1 chart came out and Fatboi was the starter?  Definitely not.  You find me a post by someone who said boo at the time.  Saying Fatboi is starting just because of injury is retconning.

You think that's all or even mostly on the DL?  Have you seen how our D leaves the flat completely wide open with 30Y windows in all directions?  Have you seen how our LBers are having trouble against the run?  The FS isn't doing his run-stop job either, and the DBs are all whiffing in space.  Only Holm seems capable of catching lowly big not-super-fast RBs once they get going.

Ya, the entire D is to blame for the run explosions of the last couple of weeks (and the ugly tone-setter by Stanback in the GC).  For some reason teams will always limit Brady to 5 to 15, and he never gets a 40 lately, but we leave wide open swathes of field for opponent runners to go crazy.  I really don't get why this is.

Lawson was injured in TC so it was no surprise that Thomas was the next man up. We only had 2 import DT's in TC for most of camp.

I'm not going to look for posts from May and June saying Thomas shouldn't be starting. Many said that during all of 2023, before TC and during TC. I know I've said in all of those time frames.

One thing you might do is time the amount of time Maier had to throw over a series or two.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 14, 2024, 12:54:25 PMLawson was injured in TC so it was no surprise that Thomas was the next man up. We only had 2 import DT's in TC for most of camp.

I'm not going to look for posts from May and June saying Thomas shouldn't be starting. Many said that during all of 2023, before TC and during TC. I know I've said in all of those time frames.

One thing you might do is time the amount of time Maier had to throw over a series or two.

On Fatboi's sack, count steamboats.  Clearly a coverage sack.  Maier had a similar amount of time all game to throw the ball.  There isn't sufficient push from the front 4; there hasn't been all year.  I'm not suggesting that's all on Jake; but it's not good enough...V Adams and other high level QBs will continue to carve us up in the next 2/3 of the season if we don't fix it. 

Garbutt might be back this week; not sure what he brings but maybe it improves pressure off the end...haven't heard any reports that Fox, Lawson or Haba are anywhere near a return.  I've seen all 3 at practice sitting on the injured players bench with Parker.  They're not doing sprints or anything other than watching.  Looks like they'll be on the mend for quite a bit more time

This all leads to the conclusion that the staff like the guys they have and are willing to play these injuries out.  Who ends up starting after our injured players return is inconsequential as long as there's improvement on the line.

Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 14, 2024, 02:01:27 PMOn Fatboi's sack, count steamboats.  Clearly a coverage sack.  Maier had a similar amount of time all game to throw the ball.  There isn't sufficient push from the front 4; there hasn't been all year.  I'm not suggesting that's all on Jake; but it's not good enough...V Adams and other high level QBs will continue to carve us up in the next 2/3 of the season if we don't fix it. 

Garbutt might be back this week; not sure what he brings but maybe it improves pressure off the end...haven't heard any reports that Fox, Lawson or Haba are anywhere near a return.  I've seen all 3 at practice sitting on the injured players bench with Parker.  They're not doing sprints or anything other than watching.  Looks like they'll be on the mend for quite a bit more time

This all leads to the conclusion that the staff like the guys they have and are willing to play these injuries out.  Who ends up starting after our injured players return is inconsequential as long as there's improvement on the line.

Those on our IR might be great players but the issue is that they may not be available for and extended period.

At the very least we should be bringing a couple of DL to look at on our PR.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 14, 2024, 02:19:21 PMThose on our IR might be great players but the issue is that they may not be available for and extended period.

At the very least we should be bringing a couple of DL to look at on our PR.

I agree.  We've now got too many receivers on the PR.  Dropping former TC cuts like Cody Case and/or Alston from the PR for a D Lineman or two seems like a prudent thing to do

Quote from: Slingin Sammy on July 14, 2024, 02:28:42 PMI agree.  We've now got too many receivers on the PR.  Dropping former TC cuts like Cody Case and/or Alston from the PR for a D Lineman or two seems like a prudent thing to do

I think there is a decent chance Lawler is back after the Rider game. He'll have completed his 6 game on IR. If that's true then we might look to trim a receiver from the PR. Who that would be IDK. The impression I get is that Mitchell and Case are being looked at as returners more so than receivers.

Whitehead might fill that next man up so we might move away from one receiver in order to add a DL. In reality even if a new DL shows up tomorrow, he'll need a couple of weeks to learn the playbook.

The general thought is that Lawson and Haba are going to be out for quite awhile. Fox and Garbutt might be available sooner.

Action depends on what we don't know, but it can't hurt to bring in a DT candidate or two.

I didn't think Fayad was playing that well but didn't think he'd earn such a quick exit. Even the PR has limited spaces and we had just added 3 receivers.

The team sees more about a player in practice than we see in limited game time. Raw talent doesn't out weigh lack of effort, football IQ and consistency.

I'm not suggesting that was the case with Fayad, but it's a question as what just happened. Adding Lucky O as a LB was curious but he be a good player in the future. Some mention of him being an athletic freak of nature is not a bad thing to start.

Strategically replacing a DE with a LB body type, was another what's going on here. He did recover a fumble but was getting washed out by the OL most of what I saw. 

I don't think we have another choice for this week, so round 2. Let's see what he can do. OTOH, Hubert has looked like he could be a good player soon. He did record a couple of DT's and created some push.

Quote from: Blue In BC on July 14, 2024, 12:54:25 PMOne thing you might do is time the amount of time Maier had to throw over a series or two.

We've given QBs tons of time all season.  The DL is weak, we all know that.  But I'd say it's at most 25% Fatboi, as he is 1/4 of the line.

Our #2 DE (whoever it has been) has been pretty useless all season.  Our IMP DT, whoever it's been, has had limited success.  People have been noting Willie getting shut down even without being double-teamed.

The entire unit has been bad, I don't see why we should single out Fatboi.  At least, unlike most of the other pieces, he gives us the passport advantage.  For my money I'd get a star-level DE before I'd worry about Fatboi.  Probably an IMP DT too.  And also start looking at the DL coach, unless you guys can vouch for him...

It's not like this is the first time we've had an ineffective DL!  Remember all the times Jeffcoat was out?

Quote from: Jesse on July 11, 2024, 07:47:51 PMHe kicked my dog.

And now your dog need operation?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 15, 2024, 07:31:29 AMWe've given QBs tons of time all season.  The DL is weak, we all know that.  But I'd say it's at most 25% Fatboi, as he is 1/4 of the line.

Our #2 DE (whoever it has been) has been pretty useless all season.  Our IMP DT, whoever it's been, has had limited success.  People have been noting Willie getting shut down even without being double-teamed.

The entire unit has been bad, I don't see why we should single out Fatboi.  At least, unlike most of the other pieces, he gives us the passport advantage.  For my money I'd get a star-level DE before I'd worry about Fatboi.  Probably an IMP DT too.  And also start looking at the DL coach, unless you guys can vouch for him...

It's not like this is the first time we've had an ineffective DL!  Remember all the times Jeffcoat was out?

Really counting on Garbutt to provide pressure on the QB. I still have moderately high hopes for Hubert, but It does feel like Lucky Obgeoven(spell check??) is not ready for game action. Looked completely helpless out there.

Quote from: LXTSN on July 15, 2024, 01:58:12 PMReally counting on Garbutt to provide pressure on the QB. I still have moderately high hopes for Hubert, but It does feel like Lucky Obgeoven(spell check??) is not ready for game action. Looked completely helpless out there.

Guys are getting tested by fire.  Some get hardened (the tempering process of steel), and some burn up.  Pokey took a few games to temper, lets hope we see our DL rookies do the same.

Just checked stats for Edmonton / Ottawa game.

Oakman had 4 DT's including 2 TFL in his 1st game. That's pretty good for a player that is not completely familiar with the playbook or communicating with his teammates. His game speed and conditioning also not up to full yet.

I don't know if we spoke with his agent or what his salary expectations were. My impression was that we thought we didn't need him and didn't speak to him. Maybe it was deemed he was not a personality fit etc etc.

We'll see how this plays out over the course of the season. If Fox returns and has an all star type season it will be different than if our DT's continue to struggle. There has been no indication that Fox will be available anytime soon though.

I wonder if we've approached Walker to see if he's interested in playing this season?

I watched Oakman a bit in this last game, he looked like a slow lumbering giant, the name fits, Willy J. he ain't.

There's enough blame to go around for everyone on the DL, but you can start with Willie Jefferson —-he has 2 sacks over 6 games, prorated over the season, that's 6 sacks. Not much for the much talked about and highly paid superstar.

 Your best players have to be your best players, and clearly WJ ain't pulling his weight. Collaros was struggling, but seems to have upped his game last game.

Back off on chewing on Thomas and if Jefferson could get to the Qb twice as often as he has been, we d all be happier

Quote from: dd on July 15, 2024, 11:04:12 PMThere's enough blame to go around for everyone on the DL, but you can start with Willie Jefferson —-he has 2 sacks over 6 games, prorated over the season, that's 6 sacks. Not much for the much talked about and highly paid superstar.

Yeah, it isn't like he's getting double-teamed most of the time or anything...

Jefferson is the absolute least of the D-line's issues right now. Look beyond a stat line.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 15, 2024, 11:22:09 PMYeah, it isn't like he's getting double-teamed most of the time or anything...

Jefferson is the absolute least of the D-line's issues right now. Look beyond a stat line.

He isn't getting double teamed. Watch next game and make note of how many double teams he gets and we'll come back to this

Quote from: dd on July 15, 2024, 11:04:12 PMThere's enough blame to go around for everyone on the DL, but you can start with Willie Jefferson —-he has 2 sacks over 6 games, prorated over the season, that's 6 sacks. Not much for the much talked about and highly paid superstar.

 Your best players have to be your best players, and clearly WJ ain't pulling his weight. Collaros was struggling, but seems to have upped his game last game.

Back off on chewing on Thomas and if Jefferson could get to the Qb twice as often as he has been, we d all be happier

Yet, strangely, Dave Dickensen said Jefferson "had his way" with the Stamps in that game.  Hmmmm.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on July 15, 2024, 11:22:09 PMYeah, it isn't like he's getting double-teamed most of the time or anything...

Jefferson is the absolute least of the D-line's issues right now. Look beyond a stat line.

Last game Fatboi got double-teamed way more than Willie!  Go watch!

Quote from: ModAdmin on July 16, 2024, 12:23:17 AMYet, strangely, Dave Dickensen said Jefferson "had his way" with the Stamps in that game.  Hmmmm.

I'll have to dig up the interview again, but I think they meant in terms of the run stop, especially in H2.  Willie was really focusing on edge contain.

And, yes, Willie often gets pressures and disruptions that don't result in a stat.  He's definitely playing to a "team first" mentality these days, and I'm sure the coaches are satisfied he's doing his job.

Calgary has allowed the least amount of sacks across the league so far in 2024, and they run the ball really well. It might be worth going back and watching to see how much pressure other teams have been able to create against this team. I mean... we are putting up our second and third string players (and some PR players) up against the best OL in the CFL. If we aren't blitzing, don't expect to get to the QB!

Quote from: ModAdmin on July 16, 2024, 12:23:17 AMYet, strangely, Dave Dickensen said Jefferson "had his way" with the Stamps in that game.  Hmmmm.

Is dd out of touch? No... It's Dickenson who is wrong. ;)

Oline doing fine

CFL HONOUR ROLL – WEEK 6: OFFENSIVE LINE

Winnipeg Blue Bombers | CGY 37 – WPG 41

PFF unit grade: 67.2
Top-3 performers
Stanley Bryant | 70.6
Asotui Eli | 65.7
Liam Dobson | 65.2

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 16, 2024, 06:56:19 PMOline doing fine

CFL HONOUR ROLL – WEEK 6: OFFENSIVE LINE

Winnipeg Blue Bombers | CGY 37 – WPG 41

PFF unit grade: 67.2
Top-3 performers
Stanley Bryant | 70.6
Asotui Eli | 65.7
Liam Dobson | 65.2

Almost like these guys could have used a pre-season to work together before the games counted.

Quote from: Jesse on July 18, 2024, 06:44:21 PMAlmost like these guys could have used a pre-season to work together before the games counted.

Not worth injuries imo, will work out

Quote from: Jesse on July 18, 2024, 06:44:21 PMAlmost like these guys could have used a pre-season to work together before the games counted.

Agree. We might be 4-2, 5-1, instead on 2-4.

Quote from: Blueforlife on July 19, 2024, 02:17:43 AMNot worth injuries imo, will work out

Uh, that ship has sailed.  Guaranteed MOS learned his lesson and 2025 TC/PS will be more "traditional".  He practically admitted as much in pressers before we got our first win, in his own roundabout MOS-like kind of way.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 19, 2024, 03:17:35 AMUh, that ship has sailed.  Guaranteed MOS learned his lesson and 2025 TC/PS will be more "traditional".  He practically admitted as much in pressers before we got our first win, in his own roundabout MOS-like kind of way.

I think I disagree with that. I think MOS will stick to his guns and do it the exact same way.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on July 19, 2024, 03:17:35 AMUh, that ship has sailed.  Guaranteed MOS learned his lesson and 2025 TC/PS will be more "traditional".  He practically admitted as much in pressers before we got our first win, in his own roundabout MOS-like kind of way.

No the the ship is currently afloat because he protected our vetern assets.  Took one in the teeth but lots of rounds left.  Ding ding.  Bloodied but not beaten.

Quote from: Pigskin on July 19, 2024, 03:09:45 AMAgree. We might be 4-2, 5-1, instead on 2-4.

Might, could.  We are what we are.

Quote from: Pigskin on July 19, 2024, 03:09:45 AMAgree. We might be 4-2, 5-1, instead on 2-4.

Sure but the thing that's exciting about new players is that as they find their way there is no telling what the apex of this team will be. With a FA they are a known commodity and you generally aren't going to be pleasantly surprised. I still think this Wheatfall is going to show us something we didn't know was there. Could be true for some of the others as well.

Quote from: Jesse on July 19, 2024, 01:25:19 PMI think I disagree with that. I think MOS will stick to his guns and do it the exact same way.

But his "guns" are doing it the traditional way.  In all his other Mafia years he started the starters in at least 1 PS game, and gave them a quarter or more.  It was only 2024 he lost the plot.

Also, you must not have seen the presser after (maybe) week 3 or 4 where he basically said he made a mistake in TC/PS and would do it differently.