Is this jus a coincidental alignment of small things that we have faced before that are just happening all at once in a catastrophic way?
Is the coaching change on D affecting the play? Or at ST? Two rookie co-ordinators, does that take away from MOS's overall ability to do his job?
Did we not recruit enough talent? Or good enough talent? We had a lot of different holes to fill, did we fall one candidate too short in too many of them?
Are the players just not getting the message? Again, many new faces, too many rookies new to the CFL, is it just a matter of needing more time to gel?
Short TC, 2 PS games, limited practices, is it just a matter of time to get them all on the same page?
Or is is just luck/fate that we are losing top players to injury, and asking too many young players to step up? If we lost one or two players, we should be able to cover, especially between games. But we seem to be losing too many top players in game.
I really thing there is a string of bad luck we will have to ride out, but that this group can do it.
Here is my take on D
1. Injuries
2. Loss of talent / new faces
3. Lack of pressure from DL
4. New DC / system
5. Inconsistent offense means D gets tired
Offense
1. Oline needs to gel
2. Brady need to get healthy and heat up
3. Need to get healthy at receiver
4. Zach needs to be consistent
5. Play calling needs to improve
6. Sprinkle in Strev but stop having him run routes so often
New coaches need time. Our core will straighten that out.
are the injuries at home, on the road?
are there problems with training, nutrition?
is the playing surface involved?
seems like too many injuries to one team to just be luck. or, is it bad luck?
The way Schoen plays, seems inevitable that he will be often hurt.
and Streveller, is candidate for injury as well.
shout out Jake Thomas, and Willie. how many games have those guys missed?
with the injuries the team has had, they've actually done quite well.
Quote from: markf on June 22, 2024, 02:49:30 PMare the injuries at home, on the road?
are there problems with training, nutrition?
is the playing surface involved?
seems like too many injuries to one team to just be luck. or, is it bad luck?
The way Schoen plays, seems inevitable that he will be often hurt.
and Streveller, is candidate for injury as well.
shout out Jake Thomas, and Willie. how many games have those guys missed?
with the injuries the team has had, they've actually done quite well.
Injuries have happened in TC, on the road and at home. No specific pattern. We have a new field which is supposed to be very good, so I don't think that's an issue.
I mentioned last week that there were 47 players on 6 game IR and 32 on 1 game IR. That was before some teams had even played their 2nd game.
Some injuries are carry overs from 2023. The Lions had Hatcher and Lee on the 6 game IR to start the season. They had 2 starting OL not available yesterday. Cottoy didn't dress either.
So I don't know that we're anymore hard hit than most teams.
The issue is that we had some PR players or rookies become starters because we lost players in free agency or retirement. Then we almost immediately also lost those players at those same positions.
Examples: Lawler is injured and now his replacement is injured. Haba replaces Jeffcoat and then he's injured. Fox replaces Walker and then he's injured. Last night we may have lost Woods replacing Fox.
for the most part, it's young players not aging veteran getting injured. Lawler is the oldest player on our 6 game IR.
Yikes!!
Do any of you go on the field after games? The new turf is very bouncy and squishy. Waaaay more than the old turf. (Been going down on field for like 7 years now.) Word is it needs to "settle". Who knows how long that will be. Still bouncy in week 3.
Does that mean anything for injuries? I have no idea. It should help make falls/tackles way less painful, and cause less turf concussions. But it could also cause footwork trouble and more related injuries like ankles. Who knows.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 03:22:00 PMSo I don't know that we're anymore hard hit than most teams.
The issue is that we had some PR players or rookies become starters because we lost players in free agency or retirement. Then we almost immediately also lost those players at those same positions.
I think we are more hard-hit than most teams not in numbers (we're close) but in SMS impact and the loss of our unit stars.
Here's all the teams' IRs as of right now.
1-game / 6-game
edm 4/6
mtl 2/7
tor 5/5
bc 2/6
ott 5/5
ham 5/9
wpg 2/9 (I'm guessing Schoen is going on 6G here, and Wheatfall on 1G)
For example, HAM has 9 on 6G but none are high-SMS, critical stars for their units. MTL does have some key pieces on 6G... now that's a scary thought.
And you are precisely correct that we're not getting an even distribution of 6G from each unit. Like you said, DL is decimated then decimate again, then again. When you get down to starting the TC cuts, you know you're in trouble.
In week 1 I would have given you one answer. In week 3 it's a different answer.
Week 1 we could look at specific positions and the tiny number of injuries and see a bright future after 1-2 tweaks.
Week 3 and everything all of you said is the problem. It's a hurricane of disaster that gets worse every single week. We must rely on our O to put up big points to overcome our big-explosion-prone D. We had the tools. Now Kenny is gone, Brady not 100%, and Schoen likely out for 6+. Our new best-hope #5 Wheatfall on IR, who knows how long (hopefully short).
I don't want to be KW right now. Assuming he has any SMS left for anything, how on earth does he prioritize it? (I'd pick O, but now you have to waste it on #1 & #2 Rs when before you only had to tweak #5 and maybe OL!)
Now's about the time we panic lads!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 23, 2024, 07:02:32 AMI think we are more hard-hit than most teams not in numbers (we're close) but in SMS impact and the loss of our unit stars.
Here's all the teams' IRs as of right now.
1-game / 6-game
edm 4/6
mtl 2/7
tor 5/5
bc 2/6
ott 5/5
ham 5/9
wpg 2/9 (I'm guessing Schoen is going on 6G here, and Wheatfall on 1G)
For example, HAM has 9 on 6G but none are high-SMS, critical stars for their units. MTL does have some key pieces on 6G... now that's a scary thought.
And you are precisely correct that we're not getting an even distribution of 6G from each unit. Like you said, DL is decimated then decimate again, then again. When you get down to starting the TC cuts, you know you're in trouble.
Our 6 game IR only included Lawler, Lawson and Parker before game 3. Obviously Lawler had the highest salary followed by Lawson. Parker going into year 3 probably got a raise but he's not highly paid. The rest were rookies with limited playing time.
I don't see that out of balance or higher than most teams. The Lions had Lee and Hatcher on the 6 game before the season started. Then they lost Couture, Knevel and Cherry. Most of them carry hefty contracts.
Argos have at least 4 starters on their 6 game IR. That doesn't even include Kelly who is suspended.
The larger problem is that we already had a transition of about 23 players no longer with the team: Jeffcoat, Walker, Houston, Bailey, Rose, Darby, Hardrick, Gray etc including many depth players from our PR.
Add to early or TC injuries to starters Bighill, Oliveria, Nichols and Lawson we've been playing with a bunch of rookie starters. Today we've had to replace a bunch of the rookie back ups to the rookie starters> all of those guys are on ELC's.
After this week we may have lost Schoen, Wheatfall and Woods to either the 1 game or 6 game. TBD.
Other teams that played already lost some more players as well.
It's just the luck of the draw.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 23, 2024, 07:02:32 AMI think we are more hard-hit than most teams not in numbers (we're close) but in SMS impact and the loss of our unit stars.
Here's all the teams' IRs as of right now.
1-game / 6-game
edm 4/6
mtl 2/7
tor 5/5
bc 2/6
ott 5/5
ham 5/9
wpg 2/9 (I'm guessing Schoen is going on 6G here, and Wheatfall on 1G)
For example, HAM has 9 on 6G but none are high-SMS, critical stars for their units. MTL does have some key pieces on 6G... now that's a scary thought.
And you are precisely correct that we're not getting an even distribution of 6G from each unit. Like you said, DL is decimated then decimate again, then again. When you get down to starting the TC cuts, you know you're in trouble.
How long do you think Demski can stay healthy with the amount of abuse he's taking? Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't practice this week at all. Same thing for Schoen every week, defences have become hammers that pound on receivers, who really have no way to fight back.
It really has become an unfair contest, I would like to see them eliminate the hits designed to knock the ball lose, nothing wrong with hitting or punching the ball or proper form tackling but trying to knock the receiver unconscious or intimidate them in hopes of dropping the ball is taking too many talented receivers out of the game.
Oh yah, anyone that shouts "that's just football" is a moron.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 23, 2024, 06:11:54 PMHow long do you think Demski can stay healthy with the amount of abuse he's taking? Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't practice this week at all. Same thing for Schoen every week, defences have become hammers that pound on receivers, who really have no way to fight back.
It really has become an unfair contest, I would like to see them eliminate the hits designed to knock the ball lose, nothing wrong with hitting or punching the ball or proper form tackling but trying to knock the receiver unconscious or intimidate them in hopes of dropping the ball is taking too many talented receivers out of the game.
Oh yah, anyone that shouts "that's just football" is a moron.
Couldn't agree more
Look at Sankey s hit on Acklin this week, I posted I couldn't believe no flag was thrown for the obvious hit on a defenseless receivers head, and another posted this isn't flag football. That comment is ridiculous and perhaps if he'd played tackle football and been hit in a defenseless position he'd change tune. The game has to elim8nate this. Rules are in place all you have to do is call it.
And nothing pisses me off more is the bozo who's celebrating knocking a guy senseless. That is a misconduct foul if there ever was one. You just injured a player and you are celebrating that!? What a sad statement of where the game is at.
Quote from: dd on June 23, 2024, 06:59:25 PMCouldn't agree more
Look at Sankey s hit on Acklin this week, I posted I couldn't believe no flag was thrown for the obvious hit on a defenseless receivers head, and another posted this isn't flag football. That comment is ridiculous and perhaps if he'd played tackle football and been hit in a defenseless position he'd change tune. The game has to elim8nate this. Rules are in place all you have to do is call it.
And nothing pisses me off more is the bozo who's celebrating knocking a guy senseless. That is a misconduct foul if there ever was one. You just injured a player and you are celebrating that!? What a sad statement of where the game is at.
I did play tackle football in high school. I also played tackle football ( weekend pickup ) in the winter with no equipment. At the time I never weighed more than 160 lbs. Some players weighed as much as 250 and some were current or recently retired pro football players.
In high school I weighed 91 lbs and lied about my weight in order to play. The minimum weight was 100 lbs. I played DE, SAM and receiver.
Maybe you remember ex Bomber and Lion Dan Hucklak. He was a 230 - 240 FB and was still a current player when I played against him during his off season. Also tackled Rick Klassen with no equipment.
Yes, I did tackle him with no equipment as did a bunch of other non professional guys playing football. Yes at times I was hit in a defenceless position. Yes at times I hit an opponent unintentionally in a defenceless position. 3 separated shoulders, one broken wrist, multiple x-rays and MRI's and probably 200+ lifetime chiropractor visits due to playing football.
Finally I repeat that IMO Acklin was not a defenceless player and I explained when he would have been in a different situation. Not every player being hit is in a defenceless position.
We agree to disagree in this instance. It will be interesting to see if a fine is levied.
B. Alexander was fined for a high hit earlier this year. Slightly late and the receiver didn't make the catch IIRC. Can't remember if Alexander separated him from the ball but I had no problem with the fine.
Any time there is forcible contact to the head, it's a foul, end of
Quote from: dd on June 23, 2024, 10:24:06 PMAny time there is forcible contact to the head, it's a foul, end of
Any time someone uses the term " end of " it means that they lost the argument.
It was not a forcible contact to the head. It was a body blow essentially. No penalty was called by the professional refs.
Watch the game today. I'd think there will be some violent hits that will not have penalties called.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 23, 2024, 10:49:24 PMAny time someone uses the term " end of " it means that they lost the argument.
It was not a forcible contact to the head. It was a body blow essentially. No penalty was called by the professional refs.
Watch the game today. I'd think there will be some violent hits that will not have penalties called.
Just watched the hit again, it's as blatant a hit to the head on a defenseless player as it gets, and if you don't see it it's because you don't want to. The fact there was a melee afterwards tells me his teammates definitely thought it was and guaranteed the league office fines him, which tells me the refs missed one. We ll see Wednesday
Protecting players from injuries and ensuring their health can protected is critical to any league. Head shots are a crtical part of the game to eliminate as much as possible and using the helmet as a weapon doesn't reflect on the current reality of the game. Tackle football will always be violent, fast and unpredictable making head injuries inevitable but taking steps to find ways to reduce these occurrences needs to he continue to be explored. Making good progress on a very difficult thing to manage.
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 24, 2024, 04:02:35 AMProtecting players from injuries and ensuring their health can protected is critical to any league. Head shots are a crtical part of the game to eliminate as much as possible and using the helmet as a weapon doesn't reflect on the current reality of the game. Tackle football will always be violent, fast and unpredictable making head injuries inevitable but taking steps to find ways to reduce these occurrences needs to he continue to be explored. Making good progress on a very difficult thing to manage.
You must be a bureaucrat, nobody else could come up with a meaningless passage like that. :D
Quote from: dd on June 23, 2024, 11:51:18 PMJust watched the hit again, it's as blatant a hit to the head on a defenseless player as it gets, and if you don't see it it's because you don't want to. The fact there was a melee afterwards tells me his teammates definitely thought it was and guaranteed the league office fines him, which tells me the refs missed one. We ll see Wednesday
I did my computer magic on that play and there was no H2H on the Acklin hit. If you don't have the correct setup and just the cheeseball Shaw PVR (useless "cloud" stuff now) you won't be able to discern this.
It was a clean hit and there will be no fine. Remember, command has every opportunity to review these things without any intervention/challenge. They definitely looked at it and didn't feel the need to flag it.
If you want to outlaw clean hits just because they are hellacious, you can argue that point. It's a valid argument, and everyone is allowed their opinion.
Personally I think we've wussified football too much already. I like the level of physicality we allowed right when Loffler first signed. It was around that time the league started outlawing everything "big", and I complained every time it cost our team 15 or 25.
But I can accept what the league has done, as I don't like to see unconscious and convulsing Rs, especially when they are so highly paid and there's not that many who have true talent.
Any changes to the status quo will probably wait for the off-season, and even then I'm not sure how much more the league wants to "bubblewrap" players and take away what a ton of fans come for: the big hits. It's kind of like motorsport "fans" who only watch for the massive crashes. It's human nature.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 24, 2024, 06:13:05 AMYou must be a bureaucrat, nobody else could come up with a meaningless passage like that. :D
I couldn't recall the play that was being discussed so I couldn't chime in on the play but wanted to give my two cents on the issue in general. One's opinion on here isn't meaningless. If you don't agree with what I accept that. Your tone isn't appreciated.
Quote from: dd on June 23, 2024, 11:51:18 PMJust watched the hit again, it's as blatant a hit to the head on a defenseless player as it gets, and if you don't see it it's because you don't want to. The fact there was a melee afterwards tells me his teammates definitely thought it was and guaranteed the league office fines him, which tells me the refs missed one. We ll see Wednesday
We see players calling for penalties multiple times during games. Even coaches lose more than 50% of reviews.
The league doesn't need player help for the refs.
You seem to have a bias towards the player, the team or just need something. Start a poll and see what the masses think of the play.
A fine usually comes when a penalty has been called on the play. Not always, but it's done to create a message of things not to have in a game: Late hit, Out of bounds, Tourist hit, abuse of an official, crack back block, low hit on a QB etc.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 24, 2024, 06:35:26 AMI did my computer magic on that play and there was no H2H on the Acklin hit. If you don't have the correct setup and just the cheeseball Shaw PVR (useless "cloud" stuff now) you won't be able to discern this.
It was a clean hit and there will be no fine. Remember, command has every opportunity to review these things without any intervention/challenge. They definitely looked at it and didn't feel the need to flag it.
If you want to outlaw clean hits just because they are hellacious, you can argue that point. It's a valid argument, and everyone is allowed their opinion.
Personally I think we've wussified football too much already. I like the level of physicality we allowed right when Loffler first signed. It was around that time the league started outlawing everything "big", and I complained every time it cost our team 15 or 25.
But I can accept what the league has done, as I don't like to see unconscious and convulsing Rs, especially when they are so highly paid and there's not that many who have true talent.
Any changes to the status quo will probably wait for the off-season, and even then I'm not sure how much more the league wants to "bubblewrap" players and take away what a ton of fans come for: the big hits. It's kind of like motorsport "fans" who only watch for the massive crashes. It's human nature.
Are you able to post some freeze frame shots at moment of contact that we could look at?
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 24, 2024, 03:08:55 PMAre you able to post some freeze frame shots at moment of contact that we could look at?
Homework, eh? Ok.
The key is that Acklin's helmet doesn't move a single inch until Sankey's shoulder gets in there to hit Acklin's shoulder. If Acklin took a head shot his helmet would move earlier. If Sankey's helmet was first contact Acklin's shoulder would have moved earlier. If it was H2H then image 3 would show helmets moving, and they don't. Lastly, when the two connect Acklin's head angles into his body like he's getting a shoulder whack, not out away from his body like a H2H would cause.
This looks like a perfect form shoulder to shoulder hit to me. If you want to see the images in full effect, save all 5 to your disk and load in an image loader that lets you cycle through them quickly in one window so you can see the motion. They it's even more obvious.
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin1.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin2.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin3.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin4.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin5.jpg)
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 23, 2024, 06:11:54 PMIt really has become an unfair contest, I would like to see them eliminate the hits designed to knock the ball lose, nothing wrong with hitting or punching the ball or proper form tackling but trying to knock the receiver unconscious or intimidate them in hopes of dropping the ball is taking too many talented receivers out of the game.
Oh yah, anyone that shouts "that's just football" is a moron.
But it always has (forever) been "football". Go watch some of those 80's GC replays CFL had up on youtube. The game has already been made way more feathers & rainbows since then. Maybe the key is they should bring back those huge shoulder pads! ;D ;D
If you want to eliminate said "knock the ball out" hits, you can argue that point. But don't think it won't fundamentally change the game. If you do that then in any situation where you are uphill-with-speed vs downhill-with-speed it'll be nearly impossible to effect a "clean" hit. What do you do, stop and then turn and chase?
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 25, 2024, 04:25:38 AMHomework, eh? Ok.
The key is that Acklin's helmet doesn't move a single inch until Sankey's shoulder gets in there to hit Acklin's shoulder. If Acklin took a head shot his helmet would move earlier. If Sankey's helmet was first contact Acklin's shoulder would have moved earlier. If it was H2H then image 3 would show helmets moving, and they don't. Lastly, when the two connect Acklin's head angles into his body like he's getting a shoulder whack, not out away from his body like a H2H would cause.
This looks like a perfect form shoulder to shoulder hit to me. If you want to see the images in full effect, save all 5 to your disk and load in an image loader that lets you cycle through them quickly in one window so you can see the motion. They it's even more obvious.
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin1.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin2.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin3.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin4.jpg)
(https://fsi.ca/tec/acklin5.jpg)
Good work, thanks for the effort. I wonder what DD will say to this? I'd call it form tackle. Shoulder to shoulder.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 25, 2024, 04:47:36 AMBut it always has (forever) been "football". Go watch some of those 80's GC replays CFL had up on youtube. The game has already been made way more feathers & rainbows since then. Maybe the key is they should bring back those huge shoulder pads! ;D ;D
If you want to eliminate said "knock the ball out" hits, you can argue that point. But don't think it won't fundamentally change the game. If you do that then in any situation where you are uphill-with-speed vs downhill-with-speed it'll be nearly impossible to effect a "clean" hit. What do you do, stop and then turn and chase?
The game has fundamentally changed, each decade players have gotten bigger, faster and stronger, just like in hockey. They no longer wear leather helmets but maybe they should, or wear no helmets at all as in rugby, as the equipment is designed and is used as a weapon. Maybe they should put the hard surface on the inside and the padded protection on the outside, that might force them to tackle properly.
Point is highly skilled players are being taken out of the game by gorillas who's only skill is smashing, just like hockey. They are not the players that make the game exciting or fans pay to come see.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 25, 2024, 01:03:08 PMGood work, thanks for the effort. I wonder what DD will say to this? I'd call it form tackle. Shoulder to shoulder.
To me it looks like shoulder to head.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 25, 2024, 04:47:36 AMBut it always has (forever) been "football". Go watch some of those 80's GC replays CFL had up on youtube. The game has already been made way more feathers & rainbows since then. Maybe the key is they should bring back those huge shoulder pads! ;D ;D
If you want to eliminate said "knock the ball out" hits, you can argue that point. But don't think it won't fundamentally change the game. If you do that then in any situation where you are uphill-with-speed vs downhill-with-speed it'll be nearly impossible to effect a "clean" hit. What do you do, stop and then turn and chase?
What relevance does games in the 80s have with present day sport?? Let's watch reruns of probert fights and say that's the way hockey should be played. Ridiculous reference
People will try and justify why a player lay motionless on the field after the hit call they want. If it was shoulder to shoulder there would be no one laying on the ground. The fact that acklin got up and was upset pointing at his Adam's apple and his teammates causing a melee tells me it was a shoulder to the head hit. Players know when someone crosses the line.
We are just becoming aware of the impacts of concussions to long term health of players, and when it comes to safety, error on the safe side. There's no place in the game for a hit like that, and I don't care what your feeble justification is as there is no justification for that
Quote from: Stretch on June 25, 2024, 07:36:35 PMTo me it looks like shoulder to head.
You can see Acklin's head moving forward in the 4th picture. If the shoulder hit his head, that wouldn't happen. Forward momentum would take Acklin's throat bouncing off a shoulder pad, possibly.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 23, 2024, 09:17:02 PMI did play tackle football in high school. I also played tackle football ( weekend pickup ) in the winter with no equipment. At the time I never weighed more than 160 lbs. Some players weighed as much as 250 and some were current or recently retired pro football players.
Maybe you remember ex Bomber and Lion Dan Hucklak. He was a 230 - 240 FB and was still a current player when I played against him during his off season. Also tackled Rick Klassen with no equipment.
Danny BOY! Yes, he played in the latter Brock years I believe and into the Tommy Clements era. Won a cup with the Bombers in 1984 to end the first BIG drought for the Bombers (22 years).
Also remember Rick Klassen mainly playing for the BC Lions in the 1980's. I will only a teenager when those guys played for the Bombers until late 1985 when I turned 20.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 25, 2024, 08:27:21 PMYou can see Acklin's head moving forward in the 4th picture. If the shoulder hit his head, that wouldn't happen. Forward momentum would take Acklin's throat bouncing off a shoulder pad, possibly.
Ever heard of whiplash??? His head is definitely moving frame to frame. Those photos don't tell us very much, we'll have to wait to see if the league thinks he deserves extra punishment.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 25, 2024, 06:25:29 PMPoint is highly skilled players are being taken out of the game by gorillas who's only skill is smashing, just like hockey. They are not the players that make the game exciting or fans pay to come see.
Well, you just described basically every DT and WILL/MLB. Their job is to smash. That's fundamental to stopping the run.
Yes, it sucks the high $$ skill skinny guys like WRs get the painful end of that stick. And it sucks when many of them are taken out in a season. Milt always says he stopped playing because of the hits -- take the hits out and he'd have played 5 more years.
But it is football. Unless we want them grabbing at waist-flags, there's not much we can do. And teams will try to stack their DTs/LBs with HULK SMASH guys.
Quote from: dd on June 25, 2024, 08:25:29 PMPeople will try and justify why a player lay motionless on the field after the hit call they want. If it was shoulder to shoulder there would be no one laying on the ground. The fact that acklin got up and was upset pointing at his Adam's apple and his teammates causing a melee tells me it was a shoulder to the head hit. Players know when someone crosses the line.
That may be the clue as to what the contact was: shoulder to throat/shoulder. But that would mean Sankey's throat also took Acklin's shoulder too. It just sucks for Acklin because Sankey weighs 2X as much. There is nothing illegal about shoulder to throat/shoulder.
Quote from: dd on June 25, 2024, 08:25:29 PMWe are just becoming aware of the impacts of concussions to long term health of players, and when it comes to safety, error on the safe side. There's no place in the game for a hit like that, and I don't care what your feeble justification is as there is no justification for that
Ok, so Sankey is coming straight uphill and Acklin is starting to move straight downhill. Please enlighten us as to what Sankey is supposed to do.
Keep in mind ball carriers sometimes truck the D... Strevie. Oullette the other night trucked a DB crazy hard H2H mid-game when he got mad he was getting no yardage. No one cares about that DB. Is that ok?
Sankey is far from a DB, the guy is a muscular tank.
What can he do, well for starters don't lunges forward at the guy with all your weight going head high. It wasn't a launch but **** close. Another thing is you can Lower your target zone. Don't hit high. He could have just as easy hit hit in the gut with his shoulder and everything would have been ok, but he chose to hit high in the head area ala Micah awe. He was head hunting. That's the problem.you see only what you want to see trying to justify a hit that cant be justified. Fine comes out tomorrow and this bogus argument will be over thank god.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 25, 2024, 11:39:53 PMEver heard of whiplash??? His head is definitely moving frame to frame. Those photos don't tell us very much, we'll have to wait to see if the league thinks he deserves extra punishment.
They tell us that 100% it wasn't H2H, which was the claim. Again, do what I suggested saving the pics to disk and flipping through them in the same window like a movie. It's more obvious then.
If their heads/necks do not move as they collide (the frame where both heads seem to occupy the same space) then by definition something else on their body is the first point of contact. And by definition that would be a clean hit as only "using your helmet as a weapon" is illegal.
Of course by the final frames Acklin's head is moving because as two fast-moving bodies collide the head basically becomes a free-floating flying object because of its mass.
Quote from: dd on June 26, 2024, 03:35:58 AMSankey is far from a DB, the guy is a muscular tank.
So is Oullette, and that was my point. Oullette has more muscle than Sankey. Are you going to complain about Oullette trucking an Acklin-sized DB?
Quote from: dd on June 26, 2024, 03:35:58 AMWhat can he do, well for starters don't lunges forward at the guy with all your weight going head high. It wasn't a launch but **** close. Another thing is you can Lower your target zone. Don't hit high. He could have just as easy hit hit in the gut with his shoulder and everything would have been ok, but he chose to hit high in the head area ala Micah awe. He was head hunting. That's the problem.you see only what you want to see trying to justify a hit that cant be justified. Fine comes out tomorrow and this bogus argument will be over thank god.
I'm not justifying squat. I don't like skill R's getting knocked out any more than you do. However, I am pointing out what is legal per current CFL rules. And it'll be even harder to take this type of stuff out of the game.
Ya, he could have gone a foot or two lower I guess, but then you might get low enough to do major knee damage if you hit the knee/thigh and the guys foot gets planted/stuck. Sayles hit on that carrier did that, and Sayles got knocked out. And the carrier looked like he had major pain on the knee/shins. Sometimes there is no right answer.
I would bet a lot of money there is no fine for Sankey on that hit. So we'll see who is "bogus".
However, there should be a fine for Wynn following Sankey and stealing the ball from a writhing Acklin!! That's the real classless move here.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 25, 2024, 11:39:53 PMEver heard of whiplash??? His head is definitely moving frame to frame. Those photos don't tell us very much, we'll have to wait to see if the league thinks he deserves extra punishment.
Of course. It happens many times during games. It's not necessarily a penalty. In this instance the head moved forward not backwards. That's clear in the last 3 pictures.
Look at Acklin's head in relation to Sankey's number on his jersey.
Check out Acklin on the sidelines after the hit. IIRC he motions to his neck when explaining it to someone.
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 26, 2024, 02:15:59 PMCheck out Atkin on the sidelines after the hit. IIRC he motions to his neck when explaining it to someone.
That's been discussed already. A shoulder to the body below the head and the head with forward momentum is going to come into contact with the shoulder pad of Sankey. You can see that in the pictures provided.
It shows Sankey's head to the left of Acklin's head. Hitting a player in the throat with the helmet would be difficult to do even if you tried to do it. You can see that Sankey's arm is down but Acklin's head is on or near the top of his shoulder.
There was no clothesline across the throat which would be a penalty and result in a strike across the throat.
Now I can't guarantee no fine happens. Some of this becomes political and intended to change some behaviours. I don't expect a fine but some of those issued have been strange. Fining the kickers for complaining about chipped balls comes to mind.
BIBC - I think you have the wrong idea about my comment. I think it was a clean hit.
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 26, 2024, 03:31:37 PMBIBC - I think you have the wrong idea about my comment. I think it was a clean hit.
My apologies. It's been an interesting discussion but quite heated. We all want players protected from injury as much as possible.
Quote from: TBURGESS on June 26, 2024, 02:15:59 PMCheck out Acklin on the sidelines after the hit. IIRC he motions to his neck when explaining it to someone.
To clarify, he's motioning right at his adam's apple/throat. Which makes perfect sense based on the aforementioned theories.
I actually think Acklin is most upset about the Wynn douche behavior after the play. That garbage got a penalty (late, only on review), and hopefully gets a fine (can OC get a fine?). Wynn's the one with the history.
Acklin actually would look pretty good in blue & gold right about now. I think he'd be a good fit. He's not great, but certainly serviceable.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 26, 2024, 04:20:25 PMMy apologies. It's been an interesting discussion but quite heated. We all want players protected from injury as much as possible.
It all comes down to where you set the line. Some people want it here, some there. It's all a matter of degrees.
Does anyone have the word on whether Sankey got the fine today or not? I did a search just now and crickets. Why isn't there a central place for all this info in a timely manner (like the charts for me & Foxhound!).
No word on any fines this week across the CFL. I'm not expecting one for Sankey, but we'll see.
EDIT: 3 players fined including Hallett for a block he made.
Nothing on the Sankey play being discussed. Whether people agree or disagree, no penalty and no fine is the result.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 27, 2024, 01:20:35 PMNo word on any fines this week across the CFL. I'm not expecting one for Sankey, but we'll see.
EDIT: 3 players fined including Hallett for a block he made.
Nothing on the Sankey play being discussed. Whether people agree or disagree, no penalty and no fine is the result.
Well, that answers that. CFL has set the precedent for this season, which just so happens to match the precedent last season. At least I don't have to learn something new... Now we know where the "line" is.
As for Hallett... what on earth did he do? An
illegal illegal-block? Certainly not on ST? Must have been on a D play like a crackback? But I didn't see him out there? I'm not sure how you get a fine on a ST block play unless you do some Duron Carter-level facemasking.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 28, 2024, 05:24:35 AMWell, that answers that. CFL has set the precedent for this season, which just so happens to match the precedent last season. At least I don't have to learn something new... Now we know where the "line" is.
As for Hallett... what on earth did he do? An illegal illegal-block? Certainly not on ST? Must have been on a D play like a crackback? But I didn't see him out there? I'm not sure how you get a fine on a ST block play unless you do some Duron Carter-level facemasking.
I don't know that there is a new line that was set on the Acklin hit.
IIRC Hallett did draw a penalty on ST's. It might have been a low block from behind on a return?
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 28, 2024, 01:06:06 PMI don't know that there is a new line that was set on the Acklin hit.
That was my point: status quo is maintained.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 28, 2024, 01:06:06 PMIIRC Hallett did draw a penalty on ST's. It might have been a low block from behind on a return?
I will check it out to see if I can find a glimpse. Still, a very strange thing to draw a fine on a ST play. A dangerous low block might do it. Maybe accidental? However, I can see him having a slight, shall we call it, "edge" to him sometimes.
Did he get away with it on-field (no UR)? At least he didn't "cost the team" then.