Only Holm and Nichols and Ford IMO are worth keeping. Alexander is not the same since his ACL injury. We have to find better players. Bonds has had flashes but Bridges is not gonna cut it. Adams shredded our secondary,if we find players who can play in the secondary it will help.
Also I only post negative comments as a per some people on the board here, but I'm a realist..
There's definitely trouble on defense.
Not enough pass rush with four and we can't cover effectively when we bring pressure.
We also seem to be having a ton of issues figuring out the proper depth of our zone coverages. We gave up a ton of easy first downs by playing safer coverages which I could live with if we weren't also getting beat 40 yards down the field a ton.
It has to be one or the other. Play a more aggressive zone and get beat over top sometimes or play safer and take away those deep balls - at least we need to be in position to make the play. We were getting beat by five yards in softer zone looks 40 yards down field.
Not going to work.
I don't think plopping another new DB into the mix makes things better.
I think the biggest problem is there are too many new pieces trying to work as a single unit and there are communication breakdowns.
We need to make a trade for a veteran DB..
Quote from: Austin85 on June 22, 2024, 05:02:56 AMWe need to make a trade for a veteran DB..
I'm not advocating for a trade but if we make one to help our defense a better play would be for a productive defensive end.
I agree on that as well , Willie tries his hardest we need a compliment on the other side
no one can cover man to man on a 65 yard wide field. What the problem is the four guys called the (defensive) line have two responsibility. Stop the run, and pressure the QB.
The defensive tackles have no game. Jefferson, doesn't want to play, or even get hit, he's done, and the other end is non existent.
Check the stats.
Vs. BC the players on the field not named, tried. Thank you for your service.
Who will go watch that by the Fall?
Why would the Bombers not try and sign a FA DE vs a Trade isn't Kongbo available he is only 28 and has played in our System.
Quote from: BBFANDM on June 22, 2024, 05:54:13 AMWhy would the Bombers not try and sign a FA DE vs a Trade isn't Kongbo available he is only 28 and has played in our System.
Maybe because he hasn't had a sack in the CFL since 2021? Just a theory.
Quote from: DM83 on June 22, 2024, 05:29:18 AMno one can cover man to man on a 65 yard wide field. What the problem is the four guys called the (defensive) line have two responsibility. Stop the run, and pressure the QB.
The defensive tackles have no game. Jefferson, doesn't want to play, or even get hit, he's done, and the other end is non existent.
Check the stats.
Vs. BC the players on the field not named, tried. Thank you for your service.
Who will go watch that by the Fall?
Willie is not done
DL need to get healthy and has depth issue.
Issues with deep ball yes
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 05:58:39 AMMaybe because he hasn't had a sack in the CFL since 2021? Just a theory.
To be fair I haven't seen him play in a while so I am not sure what his issues are, the last I heard it was more of an attitude problem when he was with BC. The Bombers clearly need help on the Dline and in particular DE their 1st Round pick from last year was a bust, if Kongbo is still wanting to play and the Bombers still like him I would bring him in for a look. I know he probably won't be a stats machine but if he is able to play within our D System he might be able to help us and allow us to play a better Player at another Position. And I know the Bombers got an extra Draft pick this year for playing the most Nationals last year but its time to just play the best players regardless of Nationality
Quote from: Austin85 on June 22, 2024, 04:44:06 AMOnly Holm and Nichols and Ford IMO are worth keeping. Alexander is not the same since his ACL injury. We have to find better players. Bonds has had flashes but Bridges is not gonna cut it. Adams shredded our secondary,if we find players who can play in the secondary it will help.
I say forget the DB corps. Next man up.
Sir B&G is right: focus on the DL.
It's simple math: DBs are 5 guys and probably 4 starters are crap at the moment. Sorry, but it's true. We bring in 1 top DB, so what, who will care, it won't help anything. They'll just throw away from him to the other 3 nobodies.
If/when Nichols/Parker come back, that math changes a little bit, but if just 1 guy comes back soon, the math is still against us.
If Ford shapes up (yes, magical thinking)
and we have Nichols
and Parker back (who sounds like a season-ender, so probably no),
then we
may have a stellar DB corps that can make plays.
You get a Jeffcoat-level DE and a Walker/Sayles-level DT and you can be back in business getting pressure, and that "for free" helps out the weak DBs.
Heck, just get Jeffcoat back. As long as he gets a big salary and no signing bonus, who cares how long he's in the tub?? Throw him out there and he'll probably get injured too, who cares, doesn't cost us anything (SMS) but the weeks he plays. It's sad to say, but we need cannon fodder right now. Don't worry about going over cap, given his history and our current injury trajectory he'll never last the season anyhow.
But all this comes second to "topping up" the O. O first, D second. Not sure where any of this money is going to come from. We may be doomed in 2024...
Bombers need some faster DBs. Chasing the guy down the field without looking at the ball is useless. If the receiver slows down and the DB touches him it's pass interference. After the ball is caught it's pretty hard to knock it out of the receiver's hands. They should pay their DBs more and get faster Americans. Bombers are always weak in the secondary. But that's probably common around the whole league.
Kramdi was to blame for quite a few explosions. Remember, he's responsible for a SB, usually. He was getting badly burned, caught peeking back, letting guys get too deep on him, then not fast enough to keep up let alone catch up.
Kramdi might be smart and good at run stop or pressure, but he's proving horrifically bad on deep threats. Teams have identified this and will continue to attack. We may need to do a traditional IMP SAM just for the simple fact that we need more speed.
Maybe Kramdi can play some other position? WILL? A handy guy that could backup both WILL and SAM.
Quote from: BBFANDM on June 22, 2024, 06:19:09 AMTo be fair I haven't seen him play in a while so I am not sure what his issues are, the last I heard it was more of an attitude problem when he was with BC. The Bombers clearly need help on the Dline and in particular DE their 1st Round pick from last year was a bust, if Kongbo is still wanting to play and the Bombers still like him I would bring him in for a look. I know he probably won't be a stats machine but if he is able to play within our D System he might be able to help us and allow us to play a better Player at another Position. And I know the Bombers got an extra Draft pick this year for playing the most Nationals last year but its time to just play the best players regardless of Nationality
He was bad last year in Hamilton. You may as well go after Mason Bennett.
Quote from: DM83 on June 22, 2024, 05:29:18 AMno one can cover man to man on a 65 yard wide field. What the problem is the four guys called the (defensive) line have two responsibility. Stop the run, and pressure the QB.
The defensive tackles have no game. Jefferson, doesn't want to play, or even get hit, he's done, and the other end is non existent.
Check the stats.
Vs. BC the players on the field not named, tried. Thank you for your service.
Who will go watch that by the Fall?
The CFL has been playing 0 coverage forever. Of course you can play it on a 65 yard field.
It's a little early to write off the new DB's. Bond was playing his 3rd game and seems to be doing well. Ford is really just a rookie starter after only starting 1 game in 2022.
Bridges making his 1st start.
My real question is Alexander done? He hasn't made a good play I can remember. Perhaps it's not his fault with so many rookies including on the DL and not much pressure.
I'm not letting Kramdi off the hook but he was limited in practice this week.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 01:38:05 PMIt's a little early to write off the new DB's. Bond was playing his 3rd game and seems to be doing well. Ford is really just a rookie starter after only starting 1 game in 2022.
Bridges making his 1st start.
My real question is Alexander done? He hasn't made a good play I can remember. Perhaps it's not his fault with so many rookies including on the DL and not much pressure.
I'm not letting Kramdi off the hook but he was limited in practice this week.
Hard to know on Alexander but he's not showing up in game like he used to. Hallett probably wouldn't be noticibly different.
Quote from: Austin85 on June 22, 2024, 04:45:32 AMbut I'm a realist..
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Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 01:59:03 PMHard to know on Alexander but he's not showing up in game like he used to.
Is he banged up? He hasn't looked like himself out there this season.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 22, 2024, 03:37:23 PM(https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdWw4aWd5djhmYmE4OXVkaDVldzF4Nm9jaTl6NGN0YjB3OGpkZXo1ZCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/1swY7LHRqVwzivnvgI/giphy.webp)
Is he banged up? He hasn't looked like himself out there this season.
I think he was somewhat limited in TC and certainly in pre season. That may have been more of the vet day we give to so many of our older players or he may have some medical issue.
The same can be said for Bighill to some degree.
Regardless on how the 2024 season develops: Bighill, Alexander, Thomas, Gauthier, Jefferson, Bryant and Neufeld might all be players that we consider moving on from in 2025. A combination of free agency, age, retirement and SMS hit.
Note I said " consider " not cut immediately at the end of the 2024 season. So lets not go over the edge in anyone responding.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 01:38:05 PMIt's a little early to write off the new DB's. Bond was playing his 3rd game and seems to be doing well. Ford is really just a rookie starter after only starting 1 game in 2022.
Bridges making his 1st start.
My real question is Alexander done? He hasn't made a good play I can remember. Perhaps it's not his fault with so many rookies including on the DL and not much pressure.
I'm not letting Kramdi off the hook but he was limited in practice this week.
Logistically it's time to move on from BA, with his speed Holm looks to be the perfect candidate to replace him. I'm hoping they can integrate BA into the coaching staff, as he indicated last week in an interview that's where he would like to end up after his playing days are done.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 22, 2024, 03:55:02 PMLogistically it's time to move on from BA, with his speed Holm looks to be the perfect candidate to replace him. I'm hoping they can integrate BA into the coaching staff, as he indicated last week in an interview that's where he would like to end up after his playing days are done.
Too early to write BA off imo.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 22, 2024, 03:55:02 PMLogistically it's time to move on from BA, with his speed Holm looks to be the perfect candidate to replace him. I'm hoping they can integrate BA into the coaching staff, as he indicated last week in an interview that's where he would like to end up after his playing days are done.
I agree, BA just doesn't have the closing speed anymore. I also think Holm would be an excellent replacement.
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 22, 2024, 06:03:57 PMToo early to write BA off imo.
Do you need to see him lope through most of this season before reaching the same conclusion? Maybe it's the assignments he's given but more times than not he's ineffective at influencing a play, be it run or pass. His best asset is now his ability to communicate.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 03:44:25 PMRegardless on how the 2024 season develops: Bighill, Alexander, Thomas, Gauthier, Jefferson, Bryant and Neufeld might all be players that we consider moving on from in 2025. A combination of free agency, age, retirement and SMS hit.
CJOB said on the pregame that Bryant had yet to give up even one QB pressure. Raved about him.
Jefferson, still a quality player but gets no help. Not sure if they are getting value on the dollar for him.
Bighill, should already be retired.
Alexander, will have to show a lot in the remaining games. He's a vet though and right now those are in short supply in the defensive backfield.
Thomas and Gauthier I don't think are breaking the bank. If they get beat out by a rookie then so be it else they can stay.
Neufeld I would have to see more but he would be hard to replace considering the two spots we tried to fill this year.
This year I would have loved to have seen a rookie or two come in and win a job from a vet. Either MOS is too loyal or scouting is not good enough.
Quote from: Waffler on June 22, 2024, 07:21:00 PMCJOB said on the pregame that Bryant had yet to give up even one QB pressure. Raved about him.
Jefferson, still a quality player but gets no help. Not sure if they are getting value on the dollar for him.
Bighill, should already be retired.
Alexander, will have to show a lot in the remaining games. He's a vet though and right now those are in short supply in the defensive backfield.
Thomas and Gauthier I don't think are breaking the bank. If they get beat out by a rookie then so be it else they can stay.
Neufeld I would have to see more but he would be hard to replace considering the two spots we tried to fill this year.
This year I would have loved to have seen a rookie or two come in and win a job from a vet. Either MOS is too loyal or scouting is not good enough.
I only suggested they might be considered as players to move on from in 2025. I don't know who our potential free agents are going to be in 2025 but every year there are a few and they will want more money. It's the nature of the business.
The unofficial roster list includes many starters. Every team faces the same issues in the off season.
I took a quick look at the unofficial roster and we'll have another 20-25 potential free agents. Holm, Parker, Streveler, Dobson, Castillo, Sheehan, Schoen, Lawler, Bryant, Neufeld, Gauthier among others on the list.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 22, 2024, 07:05:56 PMDo you need to see him lope through most of this season before reaching the same conclusion? Maybe it's the assignments he's given but more times than not he's ineffective at influencing a play, be it run or pass. His best asset is now his ability to communicate.
Half a season and at least a few games while healthy on DL and at DB.
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 22, 2024, 07:57:03 PMHalf a season and at least a few games healthy on DL and for our DB.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 04:53:11 AMThere's definitely trouble on defense.
Not enough pass rush with four and we can't cover effectively when we bring pressure.
We also seem to be having a ton of issues figuring out the proper depth of our zone coverages. We gave up a ton of easy first downs by playing safer coverages which I could live with if we weren't also getting beat 40 yards down the field a ton.
It has to be one or the other. Play a more aggressive zone and get beat over top sometimes or play safer and take away those deep balls - at least we need to be in position to make the play. We were getting beat by five yards in softer zone looks 40 yards down field.
Not going to work.
Agree with everything you've said here. The injuries on this side of the ball really suck and to start the season we've faced 3 teams with good offensive schemes and talent that have exploited our D's weaknesses. Overall however, I feel that JY has done a decent job with what he's had to work with. In three games our D has given up 27, 23, and 26 points. That does not look like a disaster to me, in fact, with all the injuries it's pretty darn good. If our offense could have scored 30 points a game we'd be 3-0 instead of 0-3.
I think we have talent at DB, I think we are experiencing and going to experience some growing pains partially due to injuries, but our lack of talent along the d-line is making them look far worse.
It's not that I don't think some of the players on the d-line have talent, but they are decimated, exhausted, inexperienced and overall have not been good enough...week one they were pretty poor, week two they started pretty good, but poor roster choices to only have 6 dressed once a couple injuries kicked in, they quickly became exhausted and in essence left the Db's to do too much, then last week it was a rag tag group with zero chemistry and hardly any practice time, that gave VA enough time to have an espresso before he had to get rid of the ball, it was almost comical....
Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on June 22, 2024, 09:22:33 PMI think we have talent at DB, I think we are experiencing and going to experience some growing pains partially due to injuries, but our lack of talent along the d-line is making them look far worse.
Normally we lose 1-2 DBs to FA every year. We are designed to find decent replacements and get them up to speed, and you can do that when 3-4 of the unchanged DBs have become quality guys already from prior years.
The plan this year was to keep 4 of 5 vet DBs, losing only Houston:
Parker Nichols Alexander Holm
FordBut week 1 we were hoping to make the process work with only 3 of 5 vets because Parker out:
Bonds Nichols Alexander Holm
FordAnd week 3 Nichols is out, so we have to try to keep continuity with only 2 of 5 vets!
Bonds Bridges Alexander Holm
FordAnd that is too much of an ask. There is no way you can ease these guys into their role as we normally do. There is no way to pair the rookies with the vets.
Thus, the system breaks down and we give up 500Y and lose games.
That said, I still say ignore the DBs, just wait for IR returns, and focus on O and DL. Ford is supposed to be the uber-God of NFL-land so I don't know what his excuse is for major suckage... but if he can shape up pronto I would move him to the other side so it's not 2 IMP rookies dying on the vine on weak side.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 22, 2024, 03:55:02 PMLogistically it's time to move on from BA, with his speed Holm looks to be the perfect candidate to replace him. I'm hoping they can integrate BA into the coaching staff, as he indicated last week in an interview that's where he would like to end up after his playing days are done.
Holm is "too good" to play FS. And he'll command around the same salary as Nichols & Parker. He is very fast, and that would really help, but I'd rather play a super fast athletic young(er) guy to roam around sniping passes.
Oh ya, and Holm is way too small/light to do the punishing run hits we've relied on with Loffler/Alexander. We'd have to abandon that mode of use of FS, and while I'm all for that, I doubt we do it.
Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 22, 2024, 03:37:23 PMIs he banged up? He hasn't looked like himself out there this season.
He's much slower, even since last season. And he's still being schemed as mostly-run-support. But that could be a chicken & egg situation...
No way whatsoever we cut Alexander in-season after losing our #1 & #2 best DBs to IR...
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 01:59:03 PMHard to know on Alexander but he's not showing up in game like he used to. Hallett probably wouldn't be noticibly different.
I disagree. Hallett would allow us to play a completely different style of FS scheme. He is one of the fastest people on the field. Remember his 2022 FG block? That was insane speed.
The only question is does Hallett have a nose for the ball and the IQ to predict the read? He wasn't great when playing many series at FS, the few times he has. BUT, we may have been using him like BA rather than like Dequoy.
I think BA is trying to do too much out there with 3 green guys.
If Nichols is back, I think you'll see a much improved group. But who stays - Bonds or Bridges?
Bonds, he seems to understands the D much better.
Quote from: BomberFan73 on June 23, 2024, 02:07:44 PMI think BA is trying to do too much out there with 3 green guys.
If Nichols is back, I think you'll see a much improved group. But who stays - Bonds or Bridges?
Bond was the starter so he stays. OTOH, we might end up keeping Bridges as well. We're losing imports on both sides of the ball to injury. It now becomes a numbers game and which players including on our PR would be most useful.
Even if Nichols is back starting we might still keep Bridges.
I d be moving Holm to safety and take advantage of his speed across the field. BA is too slow now to be safety, he's always in a trail position vs breaking up plays
Quote from: dd on June 23, 2024, 04:23:57 PMI d be moving Holm to safety and take advantage of his speed across the field. BA is too slow now to be safety, he's always in a trail position vs breaking up plays
Not saying that wouldn't work, but offences are isolating BA by sending one guy deep and breaking another off intermediate. He often has to choose which one to cover. The real problem to me is that our DBs are getting beat in both scenarios. I saw him choose to cover the intermediate receiver, who was wide open, and we got beat deep by a receiver who was also wide open. I believe he made the right decision, and he did cover the guy, but it didn't matter as we got beat deep. What is he to do?
Quote from: J5V on June 23, 2024, 04:29:52 PMNot saying that wouldn't work, but offences are isolating BA by sending one guy deep and breaking another off intermediate. He often has to choose which one to cover. The real problem to me is that our DBs are getting beat in both scenarios. I saw him choose to cover the intermediate receiver, who was wide open, and we got beat deep by a receiver who was also wide open. I believe he made the right decision, and he did cover the guy, but it didn't matter as we got beat deep. What is he to do?
Agree. I think people are being to hard on BA. What's he got to work with right now?
Quote from: J5V on June 23, 2024, 04:29:52 PMNot saying that wouldn't work, but offences are isolating BA by sending one guy deep and breaking another off intermediate. He often has to choose which one to cover. The real problem to me is that our DBs are getting beat in both scenarios. I saw him choose to cover the intermediate receiver, who was wide open, and we got beat deep by a receiver who was also wide open. I believe he made the right decision, and he did cover the guy, but it didn't matter as we got beat deep. What is he to do?
We ve got to stop getting beat deep. If 2 guys are open, cover the deep guy, that's the one that's going to kill you. Intermediate routes are going to have someone in the area whereas the deep route only has safety help. What's he to do?? Cover the deep route so we quit giving up the big plays
Quote from: Austin85 on June 22, 2024, 05:02:56 AMWe need to make a trade for a veteran DB..
Seriously though, who would trade a workable veteran DB? They'd have to have recruited someone better and cheaper. The only way that happens is if the new recruit has managed to outplay the veteran, and its week 3. That happens either by injury, or by the vet sucking.
Do we want and injured DB, or one that sucks?