Blue Bombers Forum

So, 5 out 6 CFL.ca prognosticators pick BC over Winnipeg Friday night!  Someone once said "We have them right where we want them!"  I'm sure the Blue Bombers, and the majority of their fans, don't quite see it the way the score forcasters do but let see how this all unfolds in the next 48 hours..."

Speaking of "48 Hours" here is Ed Tait's 48 Hour Primer (http://www.bluebombers.com/2024/06/19/48-hour-primer-b-c-at-wpg/) discussing what really motivates the Bombers...

"You see the power rankings... it is different because we've never seen ourselves in that spot. Since I've been here that's never occurred," said veteran receiver Nic Demski. "It's different, but I guess it's a little bit of motivation."

"It's something you have to block out," added defensive end Willie Jefferson. "Everybody pays attention to social media and the news and things, so we see it, we just choose not to acknowledge it. Right now we just want to show we're ready to play Winnipeg football.

"From the outside looking in it's, 'Oh, what's going on? Is this what it's going to be like for the season?' But from the inside looking out, we're not hitting the panic button. We've got some great guys on the team — offence, defence and special teams — and we just need to start clicking. Make plays, get off the field on defence. Make plays, put the ball in the end zone on offence. And then when it comes to special teams do what they need to do to get the ball in good field position for the offence....

The Injury Report for June 19th shows...

Brady Oliviera, Knee, Did Not Practice, Questionable
Kyrie Wilson, Ankle, Limited Practice, Questionable
Diatrick Nichols, Shoulder, Did Not Practice, Questionable
Dalton Schoen, Hip, Full Practice, Available for the game
Jamieson Sheahan, Hip, Full Practice, Available for the game

Depth/Position Charts to follow.

Must win Game?  Pretty close to say "yes" simply to start building confidence in themselves.

CFL Game Notes for BC @ WPG

Game Notes (https://mcusercontent.com/7a0c86d02b5c64ea04a3c48be/files/56105637-0423-326c-4e06-798fa9cfe99f/2024_GN_Gm_19_Wpg_vs_BC.pdf)

Looks like a nice night for a game.  Will be a good one.

 We need to get our running game going early, and we can't turnover the ball. Like to see our D force a couple of turnovers and get to Adams early and often. ZC8 needs to be much better. Buck has to find a way to get Strev17 into our O.

Lots of player movement according to a Facebook depth chart: Oliveria, Fayad, Woods, Hubert, Smith and Griffith on the AR.

Nichols off, I assume to 1 game IR. Haba and Fox to 6 game IR. Charbonneau and Wilson probably to PR. Chris-Ike is off.

Ed Tait  @EdTaitWFC
Six changes to the @Wpg_BlueBombers roster.
On are RB Brady Oliveira (listed behind Augustine), RB/KR Chris Smith, DEs Ali Fayad, Owen Hubert, DT Jamal Woods, DB Michael Griffin.

Off: DB Deatrick Nichols, DE Celestin Haba, DT Miles Fox, WR/KR Myron Mitchell, LB Max Charbonneau, FB Michael Chris-Ike

Jeff Hamilton  @jeffkhamilton
Bombers depth chart and roster ahead of Friday's home game against the B.C Lions.

Brady Oliveira draws back in, but is listed as the No. 2 behind Johnny Augustine. With injuries to Celestin Haba and Miles Fox, Jamal Woods starts, w/ Ali Fayad and Owen Hubert also in. No Nichols.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQhjDRXa4AEJPo9?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQhjDRpbYAA0zit?format=jpg&name=large)

Not that I didn't know this, but our depth chart isn't scary in the slightest. The injuries are just atrocious.

Quote from: Pigskin on June 20, 2024, 03:14:48 PMWe need to get our running game going early, and we can't turnover the ball. Like to see our D force a couple of turnovers and get to Adams early and often. ZC8 needs to be much better. Buck has to find a way to get Strev17 into our O.

I agree with this. On O, Collaros' headcase aside, a big part of our problem is run game and being 2nd and long the whole time and forcing crap throws. If we can be 2nd and 5 most of the time, that would help and would open up the playbook a lot. On D, in past years where we would struggle, I would always say, "we need a turnover here!" and quite often Willie J or our dominant secondary would come up with it. That has not been the case in the first two games.

Solving just a few of our apparent weaknesses would go a long way in looking competent.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 20, 2024, 03:28:22 PMLots of player movement according to a Facebook depth chart: Oliveria, Fayad, Woods, Hubert, Smith and Griffith on the AR.

Nichols off, I assume to 1 game IR. Haba and Fox to 6 game IR. Charbonneau and Wilson probably to PR. Chris-Ike is off.

Mitchell off not Wilson.

Not that I didn't know this, but our depth chart isn't scary in the slightest. The injuries combined with the no0bs list is just atrocious.

Quote from: Pigskin on June 20, 2024, 03:14:48 PMWe need to get our running game going early, and we can't turnover the ball. Like to see our D force a couple of turnovers and get to Adams early and often. ZC8 needs to be much better. Buck has to find a way to get Strev17 into our O.

I agree with this. On O, Collaros' headcase aside, a big part of our problem is run game and being 2nd and long the whole time and forcing crap throws. If we can be 2nd and 5 most of the time, that would help and would open up the playbook a lot. On D, in past years where we would struggle, I would always say, "we need a turnover here!" and quite often Willie J or our dominant secondary would come up with it. That has not been the case in the first two games.

Solving just a few of our apparent weaknesses would go a long way in looking competent.

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 20, 2024, 03:39:50 PMNot that I didn't know this, but our depth chart isn't scary in the slightest. The injuries combined with the no0bs list is just atrocious.

I agree with this. On O, Collaros' headcase aside, a big part of our problem is run game and being 2nd and long the whole time and forcing crap throws. If we can be 2nd and 5 most of the time, that would help and would open up the playbook a lot. On D, in past years where we would struggle, I would always say, "we need a turnover here!" and quite often Willie J or our dominant secondary would come up with it. That has not been the case in the first two games.

Solving just a few of our apparent weaknesses would go a long way in looking competent.

The O-line needs to get their act together quickly if they want to rely on a running game, Augustine is a good RB in space but even Brady will struggle if no holes are created. Strev. could barely punch through on one yard plunges last week, the O-line needs to prove they are still an effective unit.

Quote from: gobombersgo on June 20, 2024, 03:32:09 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQhjDRXa4AEJPo9?format=jpg&name=large)

Please pin to the top and lock up!!!!

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 20, 2024, 03:39:50 PMNot that I didn't know this, but our depth chart isn't scary in the slightest. The injuries combined with the no0bs list is just atrocious.

I agree with this. On O, Collaros' headcase aside, a big part of our problem is run game and being 2nd and long the whole time and forcing crap throws. If we can be 2nd and 5 most of the time, that would help and would open up the playbook a lot. On D, in past years where we would struggle, I would always say, "we need a turnover here!" and quite often Willie J or our dominant secondary would come up with it. That has not been the case in the first two games.

Solving just a few of our apparent weaknesses would go a long way in looking competent.

I'm semi-happy with the depth chart under the circumstances.

Wheatfall got his one big catch last week. Let's hope for more. Brady being listed behind Johnny annoys me. If he's not ready to practice, just keep him out of the game, but adding Smith back into the line up hopefully helps our field position and can add options in the run game.

Defence will be fine if the offence starts to look competent.

Quote from: gobombersgo on June 20, 2024, 03:30:46 PMEd Tait  @EdTaitWFC
Six changes to the @Wpg_BlueBombers roster.
On are RB Brady Oliveira (listed behind Augustine), RB/KR Chris Smith, DEs Ali Fayad, Owen Hubert, DT Jamal Woods, DB Michael Griffin.

Off: DB Deatrick Nichols, DE Celestin Haba, DT Miles Fox, WR/KR Myron Mitchell, LB Max Charbonneau, FB Michael Chris-Ike

Jeff Hamilton  @jeffkhamilton
Bombers depth chart and roster ahead of Friday's home game against the B.C Lions.

Brady Oliveira draws back in, but is listed as the No. 2 behind Johnny Augustine. With injuries to Celestin Haba and Miles Fox, Jamal Woods starts, w/ Ali Fayad and Owen Hubert also in. No Nichols.

Sad to see Nichols out, but I like these changes.

Hubert: Is a big kid with good motor.
Adams: 6'2' 290 DE.
Smith: Might be what we need at KR.
Griffin: Big DB at 210 and has excellent speed, always first down the field on kick coverage. He has played 13 games in the CFL.
Fayad: Has some quickness.
Woods: Works super hard in practice.

I am happy with Wheatfall. 3 catches for 111 yards, pretty good for his first game.

Griffin has some CFL experience from 2023 so he'll be one to watch when he's on the field. Good on ST's and has some size.

Interesting that the early season projection McGhee has fallen down the depth chart and can't get off the PR.

Sorry to see us losing Nichols for at least a game, but it is what it is.

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 20, 2024, 12:12:55 PMLooks like a nice night for a game.  Will be a good one.

Indeed it is killing me GOLD MEMBER will be missing this tilt!
He'll be doing his next favourite thing which is riding to the States on Italian machinery.

I hope I see pleasant news by time I get to Fargo.

GO BOMBERS GO!

Quote from: gobombersgo on June 20, 2024, 03:32:09 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQhjDRXa4AEJPo9?format=jpg&name=large)

At least we're dressing more DE/DL.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 20, 2024, 03:28:22 PMLots of player movement according to a Facebook depth chart....

Facebook!!! Still and again! What's with this Facebook thing being on the Blue Bombers' brain?

Does anyone have the Bombers' email address so I can tell them to get their act together?

 ???

Ohoh, no Nichols  :o

Quote from: Foxhound on June 20, 2024, 05:09:53 PMFacebook!!! Still and again! What's with this Facebook thing being on the Blue Bombers' brain?

Does anyone have the Bombers' email address so I can tell them to get their act together?

 ???

Maybe they'll mail one to you. You'll get it by next Wednesday.

Quote from: BomberFan73 on June 20, 2024, 05:18:03 PMOhoh, no Nichols  :o

Yes not good, but Bond and Bridges have had three full practices together, and lot of video time, so they should be much better working together.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 20, 2024, 06:43:02 PMMaybe they'll mail one to you. You'll get it by next Wednesday.

LOL

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 20, 2024, 04:35:13 PMGriffin has some CFL experience from 2023 so he'll be one to watch when he's on the field. Good on ST's and has some size.

Interesting that the early season projection McGhee has fallen down the depth chart and can't get off the PR.

Sorry to see us losing Nichols for at least a game, but it is what it is.

No idea who this Griffin is or where he came from, but sounds like a rookie, which makes 3 in the secondary.  Not a good scenario facing V.A. and an explosive Lions passing attack. Yikes!

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on June 20, 2024, 04:36:56 PMIndeed it is killing me GOLD MEMBER will be missing this tilt!
He'll be doing his next favourite thing which is riding to the States on Italian machinery.

A Zamboni?  ;)

Quote from: Pigskin on June 20, 2024, 04:23:49 PMI am happy with Wheatfall. 3 catches for 111 yards, pretty good for his first game.

I don't mean to take anything away from the guy because certainly he delivered when called upon, and 111 yards in a game for any receiver is fantastic, but it was clear he was the beneficiary of the Ottawa secondary's focus on shutting down Schoen and Demski in the absence of Lawler.

Agree of course that his play is encouraging and if he can do that even every once in a while, we've filled Bailey's #4 receiver spot.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 20, 2024, 04:05:03 PMThe O-line needs to get their act together quickly if they want to rely on a running game, Augustine is a good RB in space but even Brady will struggle if no holes are created. Strev. could barely punch through on one yard plunges last week, the O-line needs to prove they are still an effective unit.

Yeah, it would be helpful if we had better OL play, but at the same time, we should know not to expect what we've had for the last number of years. New RT, new LG starter, and Patty and Stan are like 50 years old. It can and should be better, but the skill players are going to have to find a way to compensate for not having league-tops protection.

Cryders massively overpaying Hardrick was a god tier troll move

Just find a way boys!

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 20, 2024, 07:08:36 PMNo idea who this Griffin is or where he came from, but sounds like a rookie, which makes 3 in the secondary.  Not a good scenario facing V.A. and an explosive Lions passing attack. Yikes!

Played 13 games for Calgary l

Quote from: BomberFan73 on June 20, 2024, 08:30:32 PMJust find a way boys!

ast year. 29 DT's and 6 ST's

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on June 20, 2024, 04:36:56 PMIndeed it is killing me GOLD MEMBER will be missing this tilt!
He'll be doing his next favourite thing which is riding to the States on Italian machinery.

I hope I see pleasant news by time I get to Fargo.

GO BOMBERS GO!

Ride safe

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 20, 2024, 07:42:12 PMI don't mean to take anything away from the guy because certainly he delivered when called upon, and 111 yards in a game for any receiver is fantastic, but it was clear he was the beneficiary of the Ottawa secondary's focus on shutting down Schoen and Demski in the absence of Lawler.

Agree of course that his play is encouraging and if he can do that even every once in a while, we've filled Bailey's #4 receiver spot.

Yeah, he had one big play in which he was wide open.

That said, he's the one I'm most optimistic about right now.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 20, 2024, 03:28:22 PMLots of player movement according to a Facebook depth chart: Oliveria, Fayad, Woods, Hubert, Smith and Griffith on the AR.

Nichols off, I assume to 1 game IR. Haba and Fox to 6 game IR. Charbonneau and Wilson probably to PR. Chris-Ike is off.

Nichols looked like "only" a concussion... almost never do teams hold guys off the next week for that.  Very strange.

Anyone notice that without Nichols we're stacking both rookies on the weak side?  It will indeed be the "weak side" on Friday.  Expect BC to attack it like mad, especially if Ford manages to burn them on their first tests of the strong side.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on June 20, 2024, 04:39:17 PMAt least we're dressing more DE/DL.

Finally learned our lesson?  We were one player away from putting Ayers or Karamoko at DT!

I much prefer the more balanced approach.  DL guys get tired way faster than LBs do!

Quote from: Foxhound on June 20, 2024, 05:09:53 PMFacebook!!! Still and again! What's with this Facebook thing being on the Blue Bombers' brain?

Does anyone have the Bombers' email address so I can tell them to get their act together?

I've now confirmed that every team in the league except for WPG has their chart up on their own team site depth page a day before the game.  It's only WPG that doesn't update their page until like a day after the game.

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 20, 2024, 07:42:12 PMI don't mean to take anything away from the guy because certainly he delivered when called upon, and 111 yards in a game for any receiver is fantastic, but it was clear he was the beneficiary of the Ottawa secondary's focus on shutting down Schoen and Demski in the absence of Lawler.

Agree of course that his play is encouraging and if he can do that even every once in a while, we've filled Bailey's #4 receiver spot.

He did whiff on the would-be game-winning TD try from the 7.  He kind of turtled and didn't make a real play for it.  Not a good pass, but Burnham or Kenny would have made more than a half-butt play for it.

Other than that one play, he did look the most promising of all the rookies.

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 20, 2024, 07:56:52 PMCryders massively overpaying Hardrick was a god tier troll move

The funny part is it hasn't showed up in their run game yet!  Yoshi's given good pass-pro, but Oullette has massively underperformed so far.  So much so that Oullette sucking has its own thread on Rider forum.

Oullette's run game has looked worse than WPG's so far.  That's bad.  And we didn't have to overpay on RT to achieve such mediocrity  ;D  ;D  ;D

BC starting 3 IMP OL!  Why oh why can't we try that out?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 21, 2024, 12:01:29 AMBC starting 3 IMP OL!  Why oh why can't we try that out?

You should be managing the Bombers clearly.  You and griller.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 20, 2024, 11:16:47 PMThe funny part is it hasn't showed up in their run game yet!  Yoshi's given good pass-pro, but Oullette has massively underperformed so far.  So much so that Oullette sucking has its own thread on Rider forum.

Oullette's run game has looked worse than WPG's so far.  That's bad.  And we didn't have to overpay on RT to achieve such mediocrity  ;D  ;D  ;D

I have no doubt he won't be great in the Rider system (but good for him for cashing in!!). But I do think he would have been a steady hand at RT in our system. Not elite anymore, but more stability in our OL.

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 21, 2024, 12:48:03 AMYou should be managing the Bombers clearly.  You and griller.

I would 100% take advantage of nationalizing an American.  No question there, and not start 9-10 nationals when we don't have to.

I love the Canadian talent but not at the sake of losing football games.  They can play special teams and get in when absolutely necessary.

Quote from: Road Griller on June 21, 2024, 02:04:45 AMI would 100% take advantage of nationalizing an American.  No question there, and not start 9-10 nationals when we don't have to.

I love the Canadian talent but not at the sake of losing football games.  They can play special teams and get in when absolutely necessary.

You have all the answers.  Please apply to the Bombers.  They are so much more than players on ST.  Disagree all.

Bombers brass has got this.  We are on the tail end of a mini dynasty, trust the system.

Strong Canadian talent is the key for any winning CFL club.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 20, 2024, 11:16:47 PMThe funny part is it hasn't showed up in their run game yet!  Yoshi's given good pass-pro, but Oullette has massively underperformed so far.  So much so that Oullette sucking has its own thread on Rider forum.

Oullette's run game has looked worse than WPG's so far.  That's bad.  And we didn't have to overpay on RT to achieve such mediocrity  ;D  ;D  ;D

Oulette the roid monsters is grotesquely over rated. A flash in the pan

Our special teams have been giving up field position for a few seasons now and without a JG in our line up we rarely get decent field position on any returns.   We really haven't seen Smith much, however if he's able to provide a spark in our return game it will go a long way to help Zach out with better field position.   Schools still out as far as STs are concerned until they start showing us some results.

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 21, 2024, 01:55:39 AMI have no doubt he won't be great in the Rider system (but good for him for cashing in!!). But I do think he would have been a steady hand at RT in our system. Not elite anymore, but more stability in our OL.

Oulettie is a poor man's Andrew Harris, he isn't near as good as A.H. was in his prime and he needs massive holes to run through, smashing and bashing won't gain him much. 

I noticed late in the Riders first game Yoshi was almost dragging one of his legs around.  I don't wish him anything but the best of luck in Regina but it looked like a chronic injury that might hasten the end of his career sooner than anticipated.

Interesting factoid from Paul Friesen...

COACHING MILESTONE: O'Shea will coach his 161st Blue Bombers game Friday, surpassing the franchise's all-time record for games coached by the legendary Bud Grant.

Grant hold the franchise record for all-time wins with 102. O'Shea has 96 heading into Friday's game.

By now, most probably know Brady Oliviera is starting behind Johnny Augustine in the BC game and will be eased into the game.  Seems to make good sense following an injury that evidently took considerable time to heal.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 21, 2024, 05:34:16 AMOulettie is a poor man's Andrew Harris, he isn't near as good as A.H. was in his prime and he needs massive holes to run through, smashing and bashing won't gain him much. 

I noticed late in the Riders first game Yoshi was almost dragging one of his legs around.  I don't wish him anything but the best of luck in Regina but it looked like a chronic injury that might hasten the end of his career sooner than anticipated.

Teams have figured out that if you hit/tackle Oullette low, he topples like the top-heavy giant he is.  Just keep whacking him beneath the knees and he won't make it midway through the season.  That's what teams have been doing.  We should too.

As for Yoshi, I wish him all the best, but there is the curse of the superstars leaving WPG, like Nevis & Stove.  Barely played a snap again after leaving.  Even AH barely had any play time in TOR since leaving.  Back to Yoshi, he was nearing the end anyhow: who's to say this wouldn't have been his last season in blue & gold had he stayed?  Many here (not me) thought he was past his best-before date last season...

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 21, 2024, 06:11:43 AMCOACHING MILESTONE: O'Shea will coach his 161st Blue Bombers game Friday, surpassing the franchise's all-time record for games coached by the legendary Bud Grant.

Grant hold the franchise record for all-time wins with 102. O'Shea has 96 heading into Friday's game.

Awesome!  Jumbotron should make note of this for an applause.  MOS will just love that, LOL!  Same when he passes the win count -- which should occur sometime this season. KNOCKS WOOD

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 21, 2024, 06:30:41 AMBy now, most probably know Brady Oliviera is starting behind Johnny Augustine in the BC game and will be eased into the game.  Seems to make good sense following an injury that evidently took considerable time to heal.

Sounds good, but I question why risk aggravating it since it's clearly still a thing.  He's probably lying to trainers about how bad it is so he can go out and prove himself.  Kind of like Biggie playing in the GC...  AND it costs us an AR spot (albeit "just" a NAT), so one less fresh ST guy & LBer.

Heeeeeeeey.... how the heck would they handle the player introductions if Johnny is the starter?  Hmm?  Ah... last PAS game they introduced the O, so this week it'll be the D's turn (though in 2023 they didn't always alternate...).  The D with so many PR guys and backups starting probably isn't going to elicit gobs of applause, sigh.

This setup has made both Brady and Johnny useless for fantasy players... I pity the casual-fantasy people picking usually-highest-scoring Brady this week thinking he's the #1 guy!  Haha, this inside scoop might give me an edge to catch up after my awful week 1 & 2 picks...

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 21, 2024, 05:34:16 AMOulettie is a poor man's Andrew Harris, he isn't near as good as A.H. was in his prime and he needs massive holes to run through, smashing and bashing won't gain him much. 

I noticed late in the Riders first game Yoshi was almost dragging one of his legs around.  I don't wish him anything but the best of luck in Regina but it looked like a chronic injury that might hasten the end of his career sooner than anticipated.

I don't see Harris in Oulette at all. He's just a run of the mill bruiser. I'm pretty sure no one would even know his name if people didn't mistake him for Canadian at first because of his french sounding name. Because he's certainly never proven to be a top guy on the field.

All due respect to Yoshi, he's an all timer, but I think his career might be ending exactly as soon as anticipated.

Quote from: Jesse on June 21, 2024, 10:39:17 AMI don't see Harris in Oulette at all. He's just a run of the mill bruiser.

I'm with you.  Oulette is more comparable to Mike Sellars than Andrew Harris or John Cornish.

I'd put AJ, AH and Brady in the same RB category. Neither are burners nor the pure-bruiser type that can create holes out of literally nothing. You give them some space, they get you 5 yards. And they can all be used in other ways, such as catching out of the backfield.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 21, 2024, 08:23:58 AMAwesome!  Jumbotron should make note of this for an applause.  MOS will just love that, LOL!  Same when he passes the win count -- which should occur sometime this season. KNOCKS WOOD

Sounds good, but I question why risk aggravating it since it's clearly still a thing.  He's probably lying to trainers about how bad it is so he can go out and prove himself.  Kind of like Biggie playing in the GC...  AND it costs us an AR spot (albeit "just" a NAT), so one less fresh ST guy & LBer.



Heeeeeeeey.... how the heck would they handle the player introductions if Johnny is the starter?  Hmm?  Ah... last PAS game they introduced the O, so this week it'll be the D's turn (though in 2023 they didn't always alternate...).  The D with so many PR guys and backups starting probably isn't going to elicit gobs of applause, sigh.

This setup has made both Brady and Johnny useless for fantasy players... I pity the casual-fantasy people picking usually-highest-scoring Brady this week thinking he's the #1 guy!  Haha, this inside scoop might give me an edge to catch up after my awful week 1 & 2 picks...

Don't know if anyone saw Brady's team interview yesterday but I was struck by lack of support he showed for Johnny starting ahead of him tonight, in fact he failed to mention his name at all. It was all about Brady and not what's best for the team in this situation.  Sure a big change of attitude from early 2022 season when he claimed Johnny and him were running compadres and it didn't matter which got the start. 

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but have to say I've soured on his attitude since the off-season contract talks and don't see him in the same light as I once did.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 21, 2024, 03:38:16 PMDon't know if anyone saw Brady's team interview yesterday but I was struck by lack of support he showed for Johnny starting ahead of him tonight, in fact he failed to mention his name at all. It was all about Brady and not what's best for the team in this situation.  Sure a big change of attitude from early 2022 season when he claimed Johnny and him were running compadres and it didn't matter which got the start. 

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but have to say I've soured on his attitude since the off-season contract talks and don't see him in the same light as I once did.

I have to say I think you're reading too much into the situation.

I would have moved on from Brady when he said he wanted to reset the running back market and went import but they thought this was the better decision and let the results show if it was.

Tonight will be an epic battle, BC will want to come in, grab us by the throat and expose a soft underbelly.

The Bombers will want to prove they are not old , soft and washed in front of their fans at home.

It's the Game of the Week imo.
Can't wait for kickoff.  Go Blue!

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 21, 2024, 03:38:16 PMDon't know if anyone saw Brady's team interview yesterday but I was struck by lack of support he showed for Johnny starting ahead of him tonight, in fact he failed to mention his name at all. It was all about Brady and not what's best for the team in this situation.  Sure a big change of attitude from early 2022 season when he claimed Johnny and him were running compadres and it didn't matter which got the start. 

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but have to say I've soured on his attitude since the off-season contract talks and don't see him in the same light as I once did.

BO20 is disappointed, but he hasn't practiced at all this year and I think this is the right move. Limiting his playing time on his first game game back is a good idea. 

Quote from: Road Griller on June 21, 2024, 03:45:16 PMI would have moved on from Brady when he said he wanted to reset the running back market and went import but they thought this was the better decision and let the results show if it was.

Tonight will be an epic battle, BC will want to come in, grab us by the throat and expose a soft underbelly.

The Bombers will want to prove they are not old , soft and washed in front of their fans at home.

It's the Game of the Week imo.
Can't wait for kickoff.  Go Blue!

That is likely why you are not and will not make any personnel decisions for the Bombers!  :D  But I am with you on the Go Blue comment!

Quote from: Pigskin on June 21, 2024, 05:10:06 PMBO20 is disappointed, but he hasn't practiced at all this year and I think this is the right move. Limiting his playing time on his first game game back is a good idea. 

I think the right move would be to keep him on the bench, tbh. But hopefully he'll be ok.

Quote from: Jesse on June 21, 2024, 03:41:44 PMI have to say I think you're reading too much into the situation.

Not just me that picked up on that VIBE!
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/oliveira-unhappy-with-no-2-designation

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 21, 2024, 05:42:27 PMNot just me that picked up on that VIBE!
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/oliveira-unhappy-with-no-2-designation

It'd be nice if that article on our local sports rag wasn't paywalled, but the title seems to indicate he's unhappy with being a backup.

Does it really matter what he says to a sports writer?

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 21, 2024, 05:53:55 PMIt'd be nice if that article on our local sports rag wasn't paywalled, but the title seems to indicate he's unhappy with being a backup.

Does it really matter what he says to a sports writer?

Wpg. Sun paywalled??? Never had a problem accessing their articles.

I think every player wants to be the starter and being listed as the back up would be upsetting. It would more of an issue if he was ok with that designation.

Now whether he should even be dressed is another issue. He won't be contributing on ST's so we'll have to see how many reps he gets as our RB.

There isn't another Canadian on our PR that might have been a better choice to be on the AR IMO. None have been starters whereas Brady is clearly our starter when healthy.

If he plays and struggles and / or further complicates his injury there will be questions.

Since we have Smith on the roster, perhaps he gets some reps whether Augustine is doing well or not. Brady might actually be 3rd on the game depth chart.

Regardless, we're a team that struggles when we aren't successful with our run game from the RB position. Obviously Streveler will get some rushing yards but we really need success from our RB.

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 21, 2024, 05:16:48 PMThat is likely why you are not and will not make any personnel decisions for the Bombers!  :D  But I am with you on the Go Blue comment!

Yes! Tonight we get to see how good their decisions were this off season.  Great week of practice, perfect weather rust should be removed.

Should be dominant in all three phases and cruise to an exciting W in front of over 30k fans.  They deserve it!

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 21, 2024, 06:42:01 PMI think every player wants to be the starter and being listed as the back up would be upsetting. It would more of an issue if he was ok with that designation.

Now whether he should even be dressed is another issue. He won't be contributing on ST's so we'll have to see how many reps he gets as our RB.

There isn't another Canadian on our PR that might have been a better choice to be on the AR IMO. None have been starters whereas Brady is clearly our starter when healthy.

If he plays and struggles and / or further complicates his injury there will be questions.

Since we have Smith on the roster, perhaps he gets some reps whether Augustine is doing well or not. Brady might actually be 3rd on the game depth chart.

Regardless, we're a team that struggles when we aren't successful with our run game from the RB position. Obviously Streveler will get some rushing yards but we really need success from our RB.

Not keeping Rosery around on the PR makes so little sense from a player personnel point, I have to believe he rejected the offer.  Being based in Alberta he may have plenty of opportunities to make way better money immediately.

Here's the Brady interview

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/06/20/brady-oliveira-june-20/

Well, we're at mid afternoon and most of us in MB only have a couple more hours of work until we file over to PAS. What's the vibe?

I'm going to need a few beers and then get loud n proud on country night. Yee haw

AH33 in the house tonight.

Quote from: gobombersgo on June 21, 2024, 07:04:34 PMHere's the Brady interview

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/06/20/brady-oliveira-june-20/

I have to agree that Brady is sounding a little selfish here. 
He has goals for the season, and injuries suck.  But when you haven't practiced ALL SEASON  you can't really get mad at being put as backup on paper.  I hope he plays angry & hard, and wanting to make a statement.  Hurt yourself more though, and I hope they just throw him on the 6 game as well.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 21, 2024, 03:38:16 PMMaybe I'm reading too much into it, but have to say I've soured on his attitude since the off-season contract talks and don't see him in the same light as I once did.

So I went to watch it and around 3:40 (and earlier too) he's getting very coy and cocky, basically spelling out that an injured/recovering Brady is better than a full-health Johnny.

Hey, check your 2024 avg vs Johnny, Brady!!

And smirking tongue-in-cheek comments about MOS making the decisions.  You can tell Brady is an unhappy camper.  He feels slighted and disagrees with MOS.

Brady says he's totally 100% and doesn't know why he's #2.  Something isn't right here.  If he was 100% then he would be #1.  Unless...

That's a very weird thing for WFC, as a rift may be forming.  We all remember what happened to AH33 after a rift started forming... MOS is totally loyal, until he isn't, usually because of someone betraying trust.

To be honest, this is crap we could really do without right now.  The W/L problems are not one player... it's a whole-team/org thing, and Brady needs to be more humble.

Quote from: Pigskin on June 21, 2024, 09:06:22 PMAH33 in the house tonight.

Cool!  Welcome home AH!  I got your back!!  (Check out my avatar!)  Hopefully the jumbotron will find him.  I wonder if he'll be in the stands with the people a la Lucky, or whether he'll be hiding in a luxury box?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 21, 2024, 09:18:35 PMSo I went to watch it and around 3:40 (and earlier too) he's getting very coy and cocky, basically spelling out that an injured/recovering Brady is better than a full-health Johnny.

Hey, check your 2024 avg vs Johnny, Brady!!

And smirking tongue-in-cheek comments about MOS making the decisions.  You can tell Brady is an unhappy camper.  He feels slighted and disagrees with MOS.

Brady says he's totally 100% and doesn't know why he's #2.  Something isn't right here.  If he was 100% then he would be #1.  Unless...

That's a very weird thing for WFC, as a rift may be forming.  We all remember what happened to AH33 after a rift started forming... MOS is totally loyal, until he isn't, usually because of someone betraying trust.

To be honest, this is crap we could really do without right now.  The W/L problems are not one player... it's a whole-team/org thing, and Brady needs to be more humble.

I almost wonder if it's more Chris Smith he's upset about. He hasn't had to worry about his job really since AH left.
If he can't get the touches tonight and it's a 3 headed monster, who knows what happens. 
Smith looks good and the pressure builds for Brady.  Also Brady, like AH, seems to do better with more touches. 

Quote from: Pigskin on June 21, 2024, 09:06:22 PMAH33 in the house tonight.

He is signing autographs in the tailgate area from 545-700.

Quote from: BomberFan73 on June 21, 2024, 09:28:28 PMI almost wonder if it's more Chris Smith he's upset about. He hasn't had to worry about his job really since AH left.

Could be, but knowing MOS I'd be shocked if Smith gets any touches as RB.  At best Smith will see 1 O touch used like McCrae, maybe a sweep or hitch.  Even then, I doubt it.  MOS made it abundantly clear in the pressers that Johnny has earned the touches.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 21, 2024, 09:24:35 PMCool!  Welcome home AH!  I got your back!!  (Check out my avatar!)  Hopefully the jumbotron will find him.  I wonder if he'll be in the stands with the people a la Lucky, or whether he'll be hiding in a luxury box?

Really, you have no clue what's happening tonight????

Watching the MOS Jun 20 presser has me really puzzled now.  He must have known this decision would cause a ton of heat, questions and blowback.  And he must have known Brady would take this personally.  And all of that has come to pass.

So now I question: why?  Why make this move?  Just because they like the heat and controversy?  That's not the MOS M.O.  They hate this scrutiny.

I wonder if they're sending a not-so-subtle message to Brady.  The question is: what's that message?  What's really going on?

P.S. The nonsense about "he didn't have any practices until now" is deflection and obfuscation.  It's a non-answer.

Gotta get ready & drive to the game.  I want to say: Let's get this win and get our season on track!  Let's be as loud as banjo bowl to support our D.  Let's get lots of "BC Sucks" going.  The vets need to play at their talent level today; and the ELCs above their talent level.

I pray the OC/DC will have whipped up a ton of creativity and that they got in the practices needed to ensure execution.

This is our first West match-up and if we win it, the 2 losses against the East will become far less important.  A win tonight plus HAM kicking SSK will keep the West on an even level.

Prove me wrong about my week 1 next-6-games prediction!!

GO BLUE!

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on June 20, 2024, 04:36:56 PMIndeed it is killing me GOLD MEMBER will be missing this tilt!
He'll be doing his next favourite thing which is riding to the States on Italian machinery.

I hope I see pleasant news by time I get to Fargo.

GO BOMBERS GO!

Safe travels, bro'

The culture of the organization is essentially what is best for the team. We understand how a player could be upset by being delegated to a back up role. It happens all the time when injuries limit the ability to perform.

At times in the past, it has cost a player his spot on a roster.

I'm not suggesting that Brady is complaining too much. However, you never want a player to say things he will regret later.

It didn't need to happen. No one would have batted an eyelid if BO was shown as the starting RB & they wouldn't have pissed off the guy that makes our offence work. 

Quote from: TBURGESS on June 21, 2024, 10:28:17 PMIt didn't need to happen. No one would have batted an eyelid if BO was shown as the starting RB & they wouldn't have pissed off the guy that makes our offence work.

Sure but that's pretty thin skinned. List him as the starter and then sit him on the bench? That would have just delayed his response. His salary isn't dictated directly on how many touches he gets. Of course he may have achievement goals that impact year end bonus money. But if he's not healthy, he might rush back too soon with excessive reps.

I guess we'll see if he sees the field and how many reps he gets. I have no idea how healthy he is at the moment or whether playing puts him at longer risk of 1 game IR.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 21, 2024, 09:18:35 PMSo I went to watch it and around 3:40 (and earlier too) he's getting very coy and cocky, basically spelling out that an injured/recovering Brady is better than a full-health Johnny.

Hey, check your 2024 avg vs Johnny, Brady!!

And smirking tongue-in-cheek comments about MOS making the decisions.  You can tell Brady is an unhappy camper.  He feels slighted and disagrees with MOS.

Brady says he's totally 100% and doesn't know why he's #2.  Something isn't right here.  If he was 100% then he would be #1.  Unless...

That's a very weird thing for WFC, as a rift may be forming.  We all remember what happened to AH33 after a rift started forming... MOS is totally loyal, until he isn't, usually because of someone betraying trust.

To be honest, this is crap we could really do without right now.  The W/L problems are not one player... it's a whole-team/org thing, and Brady needs to be more humble.

Yeah, agreed, and I really do believe that no one player is bigger than the team. The team MUST always come first. One of the things I loved about Milt, and more recently, Zach, is that no matter how stellar they may have played, it was always about the team and the fans, and never about themselves.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 21, 2024, 10:33:48 PMSure but that's pretty thin skinned. List him as the starter and then sit him on the bench? That would have just delayed his response. His salary isn't dictated directly on how many touches he gets. Of course he may have achievement goals that impact year end bonus money. But if he's not healthy, he might rush back too soon with excessive reps.

I guess we'll see if he sees the field and how many reps he gets. I have no idea how healthy he is at the moment or whether playing puts him at longer risk of 1 game IR.

What's on the chart doesn't matter in terms of starting or number of reps. BO could play the whole game, none or anywhere in between. The only person it matters to seems to be BO himself, so give him what he wants, it's free.

I personally doubt he's ready to play the full game because he hasn't even practiced yet & I wouldn't have activated him without seeing him practice for a week at this point in the year. Too much potential to aggravate the injury IMO. 

Quote from: J5V on June 21, 2024, 10:44:53 PMYeah, agreed, and I really do believe that no one player is bigger than the team. The team MUST always come first. One of the things I loved about Milt, and more recently, Zach, is that no matter how stellar they may have played, it was always about the team and the fans, and never about themselves.

We know Brady was injured before TC and did not practice during TC. He didn't play in pre season. he got injured in game 1 and missed game 2. He didn't practice this week.

That doesn't suggest he's not injured or prepared at game speed or conditioning. I suppose technically he could be healthy but not prepared per se.

In any case this is not good.

give Streveller some passing plays. He must be a bit annoyed at the way he's being deployed.  and  If they keep using him strictly as a fullback, he's going to get hurt.

don't give up on the run game. Seven carries last game for Augustine.

Quote from: markf on June 21, 2024, 11:08:52 PMgive Streveller some passing plays. He must be a bit annoyed at the way he's being deployed.  and  If they keep using him strictly as a fullback, he's going to get hurt.

don't give up on the run game. Seven carries last game for Augustine.

I think it's a little early about thinking we have some disgruntled players. I'm not opposed to expanding Streveler's role but that's to improve the options, not to protect a players feelings.

The culture in Winnipeg is team first which is why we've been successful.

Boom.  How do you get that play out of a duck pass. Mfhjbdiwijhtxfh

Maybe lost in the shuffle, but:

'With tonight's game, Coach O'Shea has broken the franchise record for most games coached.'
https://x.com/Wpg_BlueBombers/status/1804313374605418814

Kramdi torched in deep coverage

Augustine and Collaros can't complete a handoff

Zach sacked for a loss

Need more practice I guess

Nice whiff by kramdi, Just got burned by Hollis on the long pass,  That isn't going to get it done here, down 7 first series

Tyrell Ford off to the locker room w/ the trainers.

Guys - apart from the TD drive this is not great football.  Defence is giving up lots of feild position. Offence can't convert a second down.

Punting is meh

Not the best clock management.  Will need someone watching on tv to tell me about the clock starting late

Utter bafoonery at the goal line. Throw the pass immediately or risk running the clock out, ok, we chose to run the clock out. Inexcusable , those lost 3 points will come back to haunt us

Zach looking bad.  Again.  Play calling and clock management on O sucks.  I'm willing to give Buck 3 games to turn it around, but zero passing TDs in 10 quarters is an embarassment.  If he can't fix this immediately, he's gotta go.  Put LaPo on speed dial.

Quote from: dd on June 22, 2024, 01:48:40 AMUtter bafoonery at the goal line. Throw the pass immediately or risk running the clock out, ok, we chose to run the clock out. Inexcusable , those lost 3 points will come back to haunt us

That was terrible.   MOS will defend it though. 

Quote from: The Zipp on June 22, 2024, 01:55:41 AMThat was terrible.   MOS will defend it though. 

I realize they were running the hurry up offence, but strange they didn't call a time out before they did.

Taking away the final second was a BS call though. We were punished for a ref/time keeper mistake.

terrible play wonder if strev should have been in place of collaros..

Defensive line is quite weak. basically no pressure. 

how can this d be third ranked?

Refs don't have anything to do with the time, there's an official game timer and he would have intervened saying the game clock started late and taken the second away. It definitely is a bad look though

Coles notes, Streveler is our best player.

We need a punter and returner.

Aaaaand the first series is hot garbage

Bonds saved a TD

VA has all day in the pocket

Aaaand there it is - TD lions.  Too easy with no pressure

well its another loss....game over

We're lucky if we go 7-11 this year and make the playoffs.  Dynasty over, this team is done.  Thanks for your service Biggie, Zach, and Willie J, Buck too, full rebuild next year.

Quote from: VictorRomano on June 22, 2024, 03:24:50 AMWe're lucky if we go 7-11 this year and make the playoffs.  Dynasty over, this team is done.

Yup there's no coming back from tonight.

Just got to watch the game on the PVR. Close but no cigar.

I didn't like the long pass to Demski on 2nd and 6 with 2 minutes or so on the clock. It's great if it connects and it nearly did but didn't. Decision to punt I understand but felt it was a mistake. The defence wasn't going to get the ball back for the Bombers.

I use the word defence but I didn't see one tonight. Bombers gave up just over 500 yards of offence!!!

No TD's for Collaros and the 76% completion is not much of a consolation. It was a better % than Adams but we got 27 yards cumulatively from Ontario and Wheatfall. At least a couple of other easy drops by a couple of Bombers.

Wheatfall got nicked. I'm not certain O. Wilson survives another game. OTOH, who else we got? Johnson is the last man standing and he may play in default if Wheatfall can't play.

Returns were a bit better.

Coverage on kicks was better.

Not many penalties.

Disappointing but I wasn't unhappy with the offence all things considered.

Oh, so much for faster start. Giving up a 71 yard TD in the 1st series.

I see the negatrons are out in full force now. There are some serious issues but I saw improvement.

0 - 3 is not good by any definition.

I'm still not overly concerned. I saw a lot of improvement, especially on offense, and like Suitor said, stay with the process -- they're getting close. Remember, all we need to do is squeak into the playoffs and win 3 in a row. It's a long season.

Quote from: J5V on June 22, 2024, 03:42:03 AMI'm still not overly concerned. I saw a lot of improvement, especially on offense, and like Suitor said, stay with the process -- they're getting close. Remember, all we need to do is squeak into the playoffs and win 3 in a row. It's a long season.

Yes but the rope is getting shorter. The defence was being beaten on the LOS and I suspect had some communication issues. Too many receivers wide open and too much time to throw. Even run defence was not good.

What are our options for next week?

I don't recall a particular instance where Streveler might have thrown a pass as opposed to the short run game. However, the passing game was not the real problem tonight. Oliveria got reps but we didn't establish him early enough etc etc. He looked healthy enough.

Wilson had a bad dropped pass. Our offense looked better but we need lawler to win games. Plus we need to execute better, coming away with no points to end the first half was embarrassing!!

as i predicted.....Bombers complacency has finally caught up with them to bite them in the A$$!!

Fun game to be at. Too bad we didn't win. I don't see a lot of immediate solutions.

We just don't have the horses. The defensive line can't get a enough pressure with four and the back end can't cover when we bring pressure. 

Offensively, we're down our best two receivers and a fairly promising rookie.

This year is going to be a bit of a struggle but I'm up for the different narrative and I'm pretty convinced we'll do alright with a pretty successful reload in the off season.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 04:04:58 AMFun game to be at. Too bad we didn't win. I don't see a lot of immediate solutions.

We just don't have the horses. The defensive line can't get a enough pressure with four and the back end can't cover when we bring pressure. 

Offensively, we're down our best two receivers and a fairly promising rookie.

This year is going to be a bit of a struggle but I'm up for the different narrative and I'm pretty convinced we'll do alright with a pretty successful reload in the off season.

Who's the promising rookie?

Quote from: Jesse on June 22, 2024, 04:06:30 AMWho's the promising rookie?

Keric Wheatfall. I like him but the injury is the worst possible timing for him.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 04:09:35 AMKeric Wheatfall. I like him but the injury is the worst possible timing for him.

I guess, he's had one big catch where he was running wide open (and then missed out on getting a TD). I feel like he would have had to do something today to be called promising.

For those of you giving Dobson a tough time earlier, gotta give him his due tonight: nearly every single short yardage play went right over him tonight and all were successful so that's a good sign. Runs over the left were on the menu all day too. He and Stanley were the best part of the line easily.

Quote from: Jesse on June 22, 2024, 04:13:22 AMI guess, he's had one big catch where he was running wide open (and then missed out on getting a TD). I feel like he would have had to do something today to be called promising.

Not so much the production (although it's really hard to fault 3 catches over 100 yards in his first game) but he's got the body type and athleticism that usually works well in the CFL. He could have had no yards and I'd still think he was promising.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 04:14:11 AMFor those of you giving Dobson a tough time earlier, gotta give him his due tonight: nearly every single short yardage play went right over him tonight and all were successful so that's a good sign.

They started off rough, but it was definitely the OLs best game.

There was definite improvement tonight.  Still, my concerns involve the Oline and Dline.  Offence was better. Kick coverage was better. Zach was better and I thought Demski played well and, as well, Wolitarsky and Schoen.

Still work to be done but we stood up reasonabley well against a pretty good BC Team.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 03:46:05 AMYes but the rope is getting shorter. The defence was being beaten on the LOS and I suspect had some communication issues. Too many receivers wide open and too much time to throw. Even run defence was not good.

What are our options for next week?

I don't recall a particular instance where Streveler might have thrown a pass as opposed to the short run game. However, the passing game was not the real problem tonight. Oliveria got reps but we didn't establish him early enough etc etc. He looked healthy enough.

To answer your question, I guess our option for next week is to "stick with the process".

We have a new DC. New personnel on all sides of the ball. It's going to take some time for this team to gel. Other teams have gone through similar and are ahead of us in their process. We need to give it time.

What I didn't see coming was the injuries and any team that loses the depth of starters that we have is going to feel it. We have good veteran leadership and a management staff that knows what it takes to be successful. I think fans are going to have to accept the struggles until we iron the kinks out and start firing on all cylinders. I have seen improvement in all three games thus far.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 21, 2024, 10:49:09 PMWe know Brady was injured before TC and did not practice during TC. He didn't play in pre season. he got injured in game 1 and missed game 2. He didn't practice this week.

That doesn't suggest he's not injured or prepared at game speed or conditioning. I suppose technically he could be healthy but not prepared per se.

If what you're suggesting could be true, that would mean Brady "pulled an AH" -- showing up to camp unprepared?  That's the first I'm hearing or thinking of this, so we want to be careful here.  But if MOS feels Brady shirked on his off-season responsibilities then he'll be in the same doghouse AH was -- and we all know how that ended up...

That would actually perfectly explain the "Johnny gets the start in week 3" mystery.  It's MOS showing his displeasure.

Let's all hope this is not the case, it would be bad for everyone.

Quote from: dd on June 22, 2024, 12:48:06 AMNice whiff by kramdi, Just got burned by Hollis on the long pass,  That isn't going to get it done here, down 7 first series

Two bad things about that early explosion:

1) Kramdi is slow, much slower than Holm & Ford, which means he'll stink against a matchup with the opponent's fastest SB

2) Kramdi 100% gave up on that play after the catch and jogged it in; he could have made a final effort during the catch (slight slowdown by Hollins), at least dive for the guy.  Left his 2 buddies out to dry, and cost the TD because they whiffed too.

Need a solution for this or teams will key on it.  And once again, where the heck was Alexander...  Against a pass-mostly team we're still using our FS as a run stopper.  Groan.

Quote from: dd on June 22, 2024, 03:54:38 AMWilson had a bad dropped pass. Our offense looked better but we need lawler to win games. Plus we need to execute better, coming away with no points to end the first half was embarrassing!!

A complete shambles.  Many teams won't run a play under 11s!!  I said the whole time MOS was deciding that I thought we should kick.  100% kick every time.

I recommend everyone watch the MOS post-game.  Tons of questions on this topic.  MOS swears we can run a 4s play, a 5s play, a 6s play.  Did he account for the fact that a 6s play has to be a 5s play because there has to be 1s left on the clock?

And they have to keep in mind that a live game works differently than practice.  Easy to pull it off to the second in practice, not as easy when the bullets are flying.

Zach says he was to blame for throwing it OOB instead of into the turf to save a couple of seconds.  But he's one to take the blame, whether deserved or not.

I don't expect we'll see a 6s TD attempt again.  If you wanted a TD then that Woli (or Schoen?) catch earlier he should have gotten OOB when he could have, that cost us time.  And you do less runs.

No other HC in the league tries it with 6s left.  I think I've seen it attempted once  - and I think it worked -- but it's such a low percentage / high risk idea that it just shouldn't be done unless you need a TD to win.

The most disgusting play of the game was 2Q11:42 when VAJ gets a wide snap and has to one-hand it, and we're bringing the house.  VAJ secures the ball while doing a 360, turning his back to the D, and spinning out to instantly throw a hot route at the sticks while running backwards and jumping in the air.

3 of our guys got through the line untouched and are near.  Willie is closest but alone sealing the left.  But 29 & 6 are together and both hold up speed to keep right contain.  Someone needs to just make a play here, someone needs to be the gunner who just goes for VAJ and to heck with contain.  Sometimes you have to gamble.

Anyhow, VAJ is untouched and makes the pass to an absolute nobody rookie who then gets YAC on our sad DBs.

That play disgusted me as when a QB gets a bad snap and turns their back it should be a disaster.  29 or 6 should have blown him up.  Missed opportunity.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 04:14:11 AMFor those of you giving Dobson a tough time earlier, gotta give him his due tonight: nearly every single short yardage play went right over him tonight and all were successful so that's a good sign. Runs over the left were on the menu all day too. He and Stanley were the best part of the line easily.

I'm halfway through the rewatch and I fully agree.  Dobson was very good, just like week 1.  He was also often switching over to run block on the opposite side.  And he was great at it, which makes sense since he was a very good 6th last season.

So far it's Ko-man and Lofton getting pwned tonight (after decent games for Lofton).  Lofton is too skinny and gets pushed around (like bull rushed) a lot.  He looks like half the size of Yoshi.  Someone get that guy some bologna, he needs to really bulk up.

What bugged me at the game is 2 min left in 2nd Q and we just got the TO and we're at our 30YL.  Looong field ahead.  2 min is a lot, but not a ton, of time.  Nearly every team in this situation takes a shot.  First down we just run Brady into a stacked box for 3.

Why not take a shot?  Even if you overthrow everyone, it's just as useful as Brady getting 3.  Just don't underthrow...

Then we run it on 2nd & 7, and we get enough, but it's the 2 min drill and clock is bleeding fast.  By the time we get 1 first down on the 3rd down sneak, clock is at 1:10 and we've barely made 10 yards!!  We need 80 yards to score!!

End result is we screw it all up and our nearly-TD (and certainly close enough for a FG) drive is completely 100% wasted and definitely changes the calculus in the 2nd H.

The homer clock guy did try his best.  Not often they overturn the *start* time of the clock, even when homer clock guys pull this stunt.

Oh ya, the (finally!) creative play on the TD attempt, Zach's Brady-leads-Demski with only one defender probably would have worked.  Should have taken the shot to Demski.  I think the only reason Zach didn't throw it is he saw they collided and it was a bit discombobulated.  This is a big sign that we aren't getting enough practice.  They probably ran that play once in closed practice.  Need to run it through many more times than that.

Quote from: dd on June 22, 2024, 02:00:42 AMRefs don't have anything to do with the time, there's an official game timer and he would have intervened saying the game clock started late and taken the second away. It definitely is a bad look though

From all I've heard over the (long) years the timer guy is a homer guy provided by the field.  He's not some league guy that travels around.  But I may be wrong.

We often see "homer timers".  I've been aggravated by them more than once before.  Rarely does the start time get reviewed/changed though!  Seriously, can't remember the last time I saw something like this.  Usually it's the end time they change: i.e. home timer tries to run the clock longer on a charging opponent O.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 03:33:10 AMI didn't like the long pass to Demski on 2nd and 6 with 2 minutes or so on the clock. It's great if it connects and it nearly did but didn't. Decision to punt I understand but felt it was a mistake. The defence wasn't going to get the ball back for the Bombers.

Ya, it was bass ackwards between that would-be-go-ahead drive in the 4th and the start of the going-into-halftime drive.  You take the shot on the latter, after the turnover, not when you need 6Y and your dink & dunk game is working great.

Zach didn't really connect on a single deep ball all night, did he?  And maybe 1 or 2 all season so far?  Why on earth are we going to put the entire game on a Zach deep pass?  What we needed to do was bleed the clock and get in FG range!

It should have been 3 down territory already.  We stopped BC drives on their side of the field maybe once all night?  Even when we held them to 3 we let them drive all the bloody way nearly every time.  What on earth makes you think that D (now tired) is going to stop VAJ this time?  Magical thinking?  There was no way we were getting the needed 2 & out on them.  None.  Nada.  Zilch.  Dumbest call I've ever seen, and it isn't the first time he's pinned it on a weakened D in recent years, to our woe.

You go 3 down territory in your head the second you get the ball, and and play the great short game we were doing with a good pass/run mix and some creativity.  All we needed was 3 more yards and Strevie gets us the guaranteed 3rd & 2.

We needed maybe 25-30 yards to get comfortably in Castillo range.  This isn't rocket science.  You run as close as you can get with 10s left and take the kick.  We miss, we can all live with that.  Not handing the ball back so they can drive to our bloody 1Y and laugh at us.  Shameful.

Hand it to Fayad: he single-handedly stopped a BC drive real early in the 3rd Q.  Including an incredible spin move on the LT to force VAJ into the arms of Cole.  That's the type of play we need on DL.

Also, Eli did my all-time favorite play where he is in in jumbo, instantly runs 6-8 downfield and turns and puts his hands up to take a pass.  Of course they didn't throw it to him, but he did tie up a LB, and also blocked him after the catch.

Hey, we saw a hoggie get a big catch for BC.  Love to see it finally happen for Eli one day!  Make them think about it.  I don't think I saw this play since 2022, and I really missed it.

Buck/Zach must be reading the forum.  He's added a lot more zip and pep to his passes.  Quicker release, quicker wind up.  Very few underthrows tonight.

And his zippy passes had more success than his feathers/arcs.  One of the only big ones that failed was the shot to Strevie that Strevie whiffed on.

Also, Demski 1-handed throw-behind save was one of the best catches of the year.  And then his 1-handed overthrow snatch, is another catch of the year.  And maybe he had a 3rd throw-behind snag earlier in the game?  These are astounding Kenny-type catches we haven't seen from Demski in a loooong time.  Superb!

Wheatfall looks like calf or hammy?  It was non-contact but took 2-3 strides to fully develop.  Could be knee, too, but he didn't collapse as one would expect.  MCL?  Just a slight tear?  Who knows.  He was holding his calf with the trainers, but I doubt it's achilles.

4Q13:36 Peters holds onto Brady on the turf 5-6 secs after the whistle.  Who knows what that clown was doing, looked like trying to gouge out his knee caps.  To me that's even worse than the twisting on Strevie.

League has got to do something about this.  It's not fair to the carriers who cannot retaliate or they'll get a penalty like Strev did in the GC.  And it needs to be harsh.  Brady shouldn't have to lay there and take it for 5s!  And there's no pile and it's clear and obvious.  Should have been a call on the field.  Refs should get training on keeping an eye out.

P.S. On the subsequent Strev TD BC had 3-4 players clearly offside.  No flag was thrown.  What's up with that?

Quote from: J5V on June 22, 2024, 04:34:31 AMTo answer your question, I guess our option for next week is to "stick with the process".

We have a new DC. New personnel on all sides of the ball. It's going to take some time for this team to gel. Other teams have gone through similar and are ahead of us in their process. We need to give it time.

What I didn't see coming was the injuries and any team that loses the depth of starters that we have is going to feel it. We have good veteran leadership and a management staff that knows what it takes to be successful. I think fans are going to have to accept the struggles until we iron the kinks out and start firing on all cylinders. I have seen improvement in all three games thus far.

I just read that Schoen didn't play in the 4th Q, Wheatfall also got injured. On defence Woods got nicked.

Schoen had a hip issue all week and going back into 2023. So whether any of these 3 can play next week is another set of questions.  Nichols might be back but that's uncertain at the moment as well.

Net result is that we'll see a few more bodies brought into the PR.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 22, 2024, 08:03:43 AMIf what you're suggesting could be true, that would mean Brady "pulled an AH" -- showing up to camp unprepared?  That's the first I'm hearing or thinking of this, so we want to be careful here.  But if MOS feels Brady shirked on his off-season responsibilities then he'll be in the same doghouse AH was -- and we all know how that ended up...

That would actually perfectly explain the "Johnny gets the start in week 3" mystery.  It's MOS showing his displeasure.

Let's all hope this is not the case, it would be bad for everyone.

I heard he got injured in off season training. That limited his ability to practice nearly all of TC and that continued this week.

So no I don't see his work ethic etc as any issue.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 01:21:27 PMI heard he got injured in off season training. That limited his ability to practice nearly all of TC and that continued this week.

So no I don't see his work ethic etc as any issue.

In the 1st preseason game, Brown thought it was a hamstring.  Makes sense, and would explain trying to limit what he's doing. Hopefully he can actually practice this week, and I think he'll force himself to.

That was the best game we've played so far this year. BO was playing bully ball and getting us into manageable 2nd downs. We were picking up the short yardage with Strev. A better pass to Demski in the end might have sealed the win for us. 
Still lots of things to fix, but at least we went in the right direction last night.  

Quote from: TBURGESS on June 22, 2024, 01:50:05 PMThat was the best game we've played so far this year. BO was playing bully ball and getting us into manageable 2nd downs. We were picking up the short yardage with Strev. A better pass to Demski in the end might have sealed the win for us.
Still lots of things to fix, but at least we went in the right direction last night. 

Easily the best game offensively. Outside of the first half punting by Sheahan it was probably our best special teams game. They hung 500 total yards on the defense and I think that unit has actually regressed from game 1 to 3. Injuries probably explain a lot of it but at the same time we have a game next week so it needs to get back to track somehow.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 01:21:27 PMI heard he got injured in off season training. That limited his ability to practice nearly all of TC and that continued this week.

So no I don't see his work ethic etc as any issue.

BO20 was the one that reported that he over did it with his off season training and injured himself.

A better game for the offence, especially considering Schoen didnt play the 4th
Zac seemed to be getting rid of the ball quicker and with zip
They also showed more creativity with running game.(Only real problem was the bonehead plays at the end of 2nd, running a running play with very little time and then leaving only 5 seconds and not taking the field goal)
The defence however got exposed on a number of fronts:
1.dline is a mess, Willie again except for one disruption did nothing,I know he was keeping containment but we need him to apply pressure.
2.  Kramdl got burned several times
He doesn't have the speed to cover downfield pass plays. He's starting to feel like this years Hurl Maybe use Cole or Griffen more.
3 Another aging vet who had zero impact was Alexander. In an earlier post I suggested we needed to have him take a deeper drop. Nowhere to be seen on most deep passes. When I watch Mtrl's  DeQuoy ..that's what a free safety needs to do.
4. What wasn't new is that when ever the opposing team needs a first down  its almost a given that they throw a short out and are successful.
If we don't do something with dline we're not going to win

Quote from: TBURGESS on June 22, 2024, 01:50:05 PMThat was the best game we've played so far this year. BO was playing bully ball and getting us into manageable 2nd downs. We were picking up the short yardage with Strev. A better pass to Demski in the end might have sealed the win for us.
Still lots of things to fix, but at least we went in the right direction last night. 

Totally agree. I thought the DL and OL both went some distance towards gelling as units. I think we still have a chance to be good this year after last night's game.

Some positives last night in terms of effort and execution, but that rings pretty hollow now that they're 0-3. Worst start since 2012 and the first three game skid since 2019.

I thought the secondary took a step back but that pass rush - or lack thereof - likely played into that.

Still a ton of room for improvement. They have to win in Calgary next week.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 22, 2024, 03:28:36 PMSome positives last night in terms of effort and execution, but that rings pretty hollow now that they're 0-3. Worst start since 2012 and the first three game skid since 2019.

I thought the secondary took a step back but that pass rush - or lack thereof - likely played into that.

Still a ton of room for improvement. They have to win in Calgary next week.

I'm very concerned about the additional injuries on both sides of the ball. Like the BC game it's a 4 point game potentially.

In theory, we can still win the series against the Lions. We lost game 1 against them last year. Mathematically we could still come out ahead within that series. It could make a difference in the standings or even making the playoffs.

In 2023, Bombers winning the series was literally the difference between finishing 1st instead of 2nd.

Obviously we're a long ways from the final analysis. Just saying the world hasn't ended yet.

Hopefully Brady is back to 100% and Nichols can play.

Offense is progressing, defense needs major work, D line gets zero pressure on Qb, gone are the days of Jeffcoat and Jefferson remaking havoc. You don't even notice Jefferson out there. Secondary is dreadful, Hollins embarrasses them, made them look foolish.

On the upside, Collaros had a decent outing, not outstanding but better than the first 2 games combined. Not sure what He was thinking at the end of the first half, it takes a minimum of 6 seconds to run a decent play, but if you're going to run a play, 3 step drop and let the ball go, as soon as Collaros rolled out the half was over, so that gaff is on him. Still lots of room for improvement

Close, could've won and they didn't though. 0-3 is tough, especially with the rest of the West looking alright

Quote from: J5V on June 22, 2024, 03:42:03 AMI'm still not overly concerned. I saw a lot of improvement, especially on offense, and like Suitor said, stay with the process -- they're getting close. Remember, all we need to do is squeak into the playoffs and win 3 in a row. It's a long season.

I agree, they have struggles but they are rounding the corner, just need a few weaker opponents that aren't playing at the top of their game.  It's looking like it will now take them till the second half of the season to get back into the top tier.

Quote from: Pigskin on June 22, 2024, 02:07:36 PMBO20 was the one that reported that he over did it with his off season training and injured himself.

Yes, quite possible he's over training and the team knows this will lead to injuries, they could be upset with him that he's ignoring their training advice to take it easier in preparation for the season.  They gave him a big raise and are relying on him to be able to perform.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 22, 2024, 10:32:20 AMBuck/Zach must be reading the forum.  He's added a lot more zip and pep to his passes.  Quicker release, quicker wind up.  Very few underthrows tonight.

And his zippy passes had more success than his feathers/arcs.  One of the only big ones that failed was the shot to Strevie that Strevie whiffed on.

Also, Demski 1-handed throw-behind save was one of the best catches of the year.  And then his 1-handed overthrow snatch, is another catch of the year.  And maybe he had a 3rd throw-behind snag earlier in the game?  These are astounding Kenny-type catches we haven't seen from Demski in a loooong time.  Superb!

Wheatfall looks like calf or hammy?  It was non-contact but took 2-3 strides to fully develop.  Could be knee, too, but he didn't collapse as one would expect.  MCL?  Just a slight tear?  Who knows.  He was holding his calf with the trainers, but I doubt it's achilles.

4Q13:36 Peters holds onto Brady on the turf 5-6 secs after the whistle.  Who knows what that clown was doing, looked like trying to gouge out his knee caps.  To me that's even worse than the twisting on Strevie.

League has got to do something about this.  It's not fair to the carriers who cannot retaliate or they'll get a penalty like Strev did in the GC.  And it needs to be harsh.  Brady shouldn't have to lay there and take it for 5s!  And there's no pile and it's clear and obvious.  Should have been a call on the field.  Refs should get training on keeping an eye out.

P.S. On the subsequent Strev TD BC had 3-4 players clearly offside.  No flag was thrown.  What's up with that?

You assessment of Wheatfall's injury is accurate.  I thought hammy live.  My bet misses a number of games.  Too bad.  Hope I'm wrong.

Good game from offence, kicking,and kick coverage teams. Defence was not good. On the final BC possession, had them pinned at the 20, crowd in full force, and couldn't stop them. That's not Bomber football. Ford needed to contain Berryhill after the catch, but let him get away and get a crucial first down. That's a play a DB needs to make at this level, green or not.
Defence has to get better, or we will not win many games. Against anybody.

I think Hubert will turn into a good rotational player. Fayad with 3 days of practice was pretty good. I think Fayad will be better in Calgary. But, with that said, a player like Leonard or Oakman would really help this team with there pass rush. Now do we have any $$$

If DS83 and Wheatfall are out, do we look at a player like Lucky Whitehead?

Quote from: The Zipp on June 22, 2024, 01:55:41 AMThat was terrible.   MOS will defend it though. 

Called that one / MOS saying after the game it was the correct call. 

I don't have a problem with them going for it, I see what MOS wanted to do, we are struggling offensively so let's score when we re on the 5. The person to be upset with is Collaros. He knows he has to get the play off, so 3 step drop and get rid of the ball. As soon as he rolled out the half was over, and he knows better than that.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 22, 2024, 04:09:35 AMKeric Wheatfall. I like him but the injury is the worst possible timing for him.

Habba

Quote from: dd on June 22, 2024, 09:50:02 PMI don't have a problem with them going for it, I see what MOS wanted to do, we are struggling offensively so let's score when we re on the 5. The person to be upset with is Collaros. He knows he has to get the play off, so 3 step drop and get rid of the ball. As soon as he rolled out the half was over, and he knows better than that.

Ya, he even mea culpa'd in his postgame presser.  But still doesn't make it a good call to begin with.  I was wrong in my previous post, when I rewatched they had 5s, not 6s!  That means you have 4s because you need 1 on the clock!  That is virtually impossible, and certainly even if you get good at it you aren't going to succeed even 50% of the time in live action with live Ds and a competent DC.  Too many variables.

If they are wasting all their thinking time, brain power, and practice time on iffy 5s plays, then they truly have lost the plot!  80/20 rule.  Focus on the plays that will get you 80% of your yards/points, and those plays clearly need some focus!!  Worry about this piddly stuff once you have perfected the bread & butter.

Quote from: Pete on June 22, 2024, 02:12:54 PM1.dline is a mess, Willie again except for one disruption did nothing,I know he was keeping containment but we need him to apply pressure.

Willie was getting double-teamed every single play.  They don't respect the other guys so always have 1-2 spare blockers to hold up Willie.  There is no way Willie can beat that, even with his superpowers.

Exactly like last season when Jeffcoat was out.  You need another stud in there to split the inevitable double-teams.

Quote from: Pete on June 22, 2024, 02:12:54 PM4. What wasn't new is that when ever the opposing team needs a first down  its almost a given that they throw a short out and are successful.

Giving up the short wide-out is the Hall trademark.  We did that all of last season too.  Once in a blue moon we'd greelight Houston to jump it.  But it's always been our M.O. to play this way.  The thinking is it's a long and difficult pass, so mid-percentage, not 100%.  But when it's a decent QB like VAJ it becomes near-100% and you give up 1st down after 1st down.

It's not a mistake, it's a conscious choice.  I don't see them changing that anytime soon, unless maybe Younger gives Hall some major grief.

Speaking of Hall... since Younger is on the field, is Hall still up in the booth?  I really wonder who is really in charge and who is really calling the plays.  However, I kind of like the idea of a "split-DC" with one on the field.  If anyone sits east side and can tell me if they can see Hall in the booth, that would be great!!

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 22, 2024, 01:18:54 PMI just read that Schoen didn't play in the 4th Q, Wheatfall also got injured. On defence Woods got nicked.

I have very bad news for y'all.  I surveyed the field for a long time right after the game with the binocs (kid likes going on the field, so no rush post-game)...

Schoen was helped off the field by 2 players carrying him on either side.  Schoen was putting zero weight on one leg.  It looked bad.  Not many injuries will require an exit from the field in that manner 45 mins after the injury!  And most of them are mid/long term injuries.

Also strange is they didn't already have him in a boot.  Just his normal outfit.  No ice.  Those last 2 points are reaaaaallly scary when you think about it.  "Easier" injuries you tend to ice or boot up...

If it's achilles or ACL we're well and truly up poop creek and this season is lost.  We simply cannot win with both Lawler and Schoen out long term.  There is too much non-refundable SMS tied up in those guys.

If anyone has any idea which play caused the injury, let us know as I want to scour the coverage for any hints.  I'll give it a try later if no one can find it.  If it wasn't on TV at all, that's even scarier, as it may have been a non-contact away from the play.

Things just keep getting worse right when we show some promise, and we can't seem to catch a break!!  I can't ever remember a season this injury-laden to such important players (and rookies too).

I rewatched (yet again) the last 3 mins of this game.

The choice on 3rd & 6 to punt it:

In 2019-2023 this is a good choice.

In 2024 this is a horrible choice, and doubly horrible in this particular game.  On nearly every drive BC got 3 or 7.  From memory I think they punted once?  Maybe add 1 or 2 more times, but you get my point.

Given that, it's virtually guaranteed BC was going to get 3.  No one thought our D was going to stop them from at least getting a FG.

And there's the clock to consider.  Even if we stop them from 3 or 7, BC can still bleed off a lot of clock, and no matter what happens we need that clock to score.  If we give them a long field, we also give them a lot of room to bleed clock.

So we should have gone for it on 3rd.  We get it, we're in the pound seats to win with a walk-off FG.  If we whiff, BC gets the ball at the 40-ish and is guaranteed a FG.  We just need to stop a TD, which we were pretty good (but not great) at doing all night.  I'd say 50/50 chance we stop a TD.  We were much better stopping their O when they had a short field than when they had the whole field as a target anyhow.

And no matter what BC gets it bleeds less clock because they will do whatever they need to do quickly, and always go for the FG on 3rd.

If they get a fast TD, at least we still get the ball back with decent time remaining to try for our own TD and OSK.  I'd have more faith in pulling that off than our D doing anything useful!

If we had decided on the first snap of our last drive that we were in 3 down territory, then we don't have to take that wasted Demski shot.  We do the short game to keep bleeding clock and worst case we have to go for it on 3rd & 3 or something.

When you suck, especially on D, sometimes you have to be aggressive with the gambles.  We weren't going to win "normally", throw that 2023 book away.  We need to do like when Lapo went for 2PAT a few years ago to let his junk OTT team win by 1 point instead of going into O/T.  That's us now.  You take your shots when you have the chance.

Was MOS worrying about fallout?  If he punts on 3rd with 2 min left he can point to how he always does that and it's "by the book", blah blah.  He might think no one will fault him for that.  However, he admitted a lot of this decision is situational depending on how the game went so far.  And the D was going really bad, and getting worse every series as more players got injured.

If he goes for it on 3rd and fails and then BC TDs, he may be thinking he'll get crucified.  But he could easily explain it in the post-game saying based on whole-game performance he didn't think the D could get a 2 & out.  I don't think anyone would disagree with that!  Just explain everything I said above.  He wouldn't be wrong.

I hope in the future he gives us a fighting chance, and puts the weight on his 65%-of-SMS O.  We won't win any games unless we grow some big ones.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 23, 2024, 06:42:24 AMWillie was getting double-teamed every single play.  They don't respect the other guys so always have 1-2 spare blockers to hold up Willie.  There is no way Willie can beat that, even with his superpowers.

Exactly like last season when Jeffcoat was out.  You need another stud in there to split the inevitable double-teams.

Giving up the short wide-out is the Hall trademark.  We did that all of last season too.  Once in a blue moon we'd greelight Houston to jump it.  But it's always been our M.O. to play this way.  The thinking is it's a long and difficult pass, so mid-percentage, not 100%.  But when it's a decent QB like VAJ it becomes near-100% and you give up 1st down after 1st down.

It's not a mistake, it's a conscious choice.  I don't see them changing that anytime soon, unless maybe Younger gives Hall some major grief.

Speaking of Hall... since Younger is on the field, is Hall still up in the booth?  I really wonder who is really in charge and who is really calling the plays.  However, I kind of like the idea of a "split-DC" with one on the field.  If anyone sits east side and can tell me if they can see Hall in the booth, that would be great!!

If they doubleteam Willie, stunt him.  Or start him inside. Adams was getting 4-5 seconds a drop, Willie on a stunt can get there in that time. 

Fake dropping him into coverage, let the OT commit, then rush. 

There are so many ways to get him to the QB, Hall had a lot of schemes to do it.  We are so thin at DE though, maybe the Cheetah package is not an option right now.  That really seemed to work.

Quote from: theaardvark on June 24, 2024, 05:01:02 PMIf they doubleteam Willie, stunt him.  Or start him inside. Adams was getting 4-5 seconds a drop, Willie on a stunt can get there in that time. 

They were stunting Willie.  And he was doing fake drops, and every other trick.  BC just left 2+ blockers to spy Willie the whole time.

And Willie's jumps for knockdowns were ineffective because VAJ was always throwing it 30+ yards which is too high.