Blue Bombers Forum

Curious, I can tweak categories if folks don't like em or I can also add new

Injuries hurt every team. Ours just happen to be happening at the beginning of the season. We don't really know when or if they will play again this season. Rookie replacements are a TBD situation unfortunately.

Five starters now on 6 game IR. Oliveria on 1 game IR and may or may not be back this week.

Couldn't have seen that coming.

It's a long season, so it's too early to assess. Keep in mind that the Lions lost their 1st 7 games in 2011 and beat us in the Grey Cup.

While that doesn't happen often, it shows things can change. Just make the playoffs.

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 15, 2024, 09:26:39 PMInjuries hurt every team. Ours just happen to be happening at the beginning of the season. We don't really know when or if they will play again this season. Rookie replacements are a TBD situation unfortunately.

Five starters now on 6 game IR. Oliveria on 1 game IR and may or may not be back this week.

Couldn't have seen that coming.

It's a long season, so it's too early to assess. Keep in mind that the Lions lost their 1st 7 games in 2011 and beat us in the Grey Cup.

While that doesn't happen often, it shows things can change. Just make the playoffs.

1st 5

Your poll is combining 2 questions/issues into one. How people feel about the team and what they think the team should do. It forces people to choose a category that they may only partly agree with. Separate and simplify your polls is my suggestion. 

Quote from: bomb squad on June 15, 2024, 10:03:51 PMYour poll is combining 2 questions/issues into one. How people feel about the team and what they think the team should do. It forces people to choose a category that they may only partly agree with. Separate and simplify your polls is my suggestion. 

Never thought of that but I'll leave it as is and a number have already voted.  Good point, people can pick which suits them best of post their view or vote in the thread.  I'll think about that for next time.  The art of the poll!

Not a complete panic.  We can still win games if we adjust properly.  We need to bring in some castoff gems and/or vet talent.  It worked great in 2019 with Maston, Nick Taylor, etc.  Why can't we do that again?  Arguably that's how MTL won the '23 GC: clearly it works.

Going down the string to 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th stringers is not going to help us win.  There's a reason we cut these guys after TC.  They were our 4th choices then, why should they be our starters now?  Doesn't mean we can't have dev players and rookies, but we shouldn't bet the season on them as starters!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 16, 2024, 12:52:25 AMNot a complete panic.  We can still win games if we adjust properly.  We need to bring in some castoff gems and/or vet talent.  It worked great in 2019 with Maston, Nick Taylor, etc.  Why can't we do that again?  Arguably that's how MTL won the '23 GC: clearly it works.

Going down the string to 2nd, then 3rd, then 4th stringers is not going to help us win.  There's a reason we cut these guys after TC.  They were our 4th choices then, why should they be our starters now?  Doesn't mean we can't have dev players and rookies, but we shouldn't bet the season on them as starters!

Next man up has also worked well for us for a long time

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 16, 2024, 03:56:40 AMNext man up has also worked well for us for a long time

The difference this year is that we have had a number of key players move on and we had encountered a number of injuries to other key (currently playing) players.  The "next man up" doesn't work that well with numerous player changes.

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 16, 2024, 04:48:37 AMThe difference this year is that we have had a number of key players move on and we had encountered a number of injuries to other key (currently playing) players.  The "next man up" doesn't work that well with numerous player changes.

Likely right but too early to know for sure.  A combo of a few fresh faces and next man up will fix our wagon imo.

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 16, 2024, 04:50:58 AMLikely right but too early to know for sure.  A combo or a few fresh faces and next man up will fix our wagon imo.

I think that is unrealistic.  Our wagon won't likely be completely fixed until several of the injured players return to the lineup.

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 16, 2024, 04:56:27 AMI think that is unrealistic.  Our wagon won't likely be completely fixed until several of the injured players return to the lineup.

My initial point was to illustrate that next man up is an alternative to bringing in castoff gems and vets.  It's more realistic based on the past approach by this organization. Both scenarios rely on injured players returning to the lineup. That's a given.  We have time for that to occur as the season is young.

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 16, 2024, 05:02:29 AMMy initial point was to illustrate that next man up is an alternative to bringing in castoff gems and vets.  It's more realistic based on the past approach by this organization. Both scenarios rely on injured players returning to the lineup. That's a given.  We have time for that to occur as the season is young.

Your statement was "A combo or a few fresh faces and next man up will fix our wagon imo."  That statement is unrealistic no matter how you attempt to explain it after the fact.  New faces and players on the PR are not going to bring us where we need to be.  It's people like Lawler, Oliviera, Haba, Fox, Lawson, Parker etc. that will bring us to where we need to be once they are ready to return.

By the end of 2019 nobody could beat us.  We were better at every position than our opponent.

2021 the same could be said, the odd team had a player or two that was equal or slightly better but not many.

2022 Pretty much the same.

2023 cracks appeared and teams caught up.  It happened so fast, how did it happen?

2024 our depth chart looks weak compared to our opponents. 

Injuries happen, but even with our best 24 available on both sides of the ball where do we stack up?  I feel other teams took our blueprint for success and we went away from it for some reason.

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 16, 2024, 04:48:37 AMThe difference this year is that we have had a number of key players move on and we had encountered a number of injuries to other key (currently playing) players.  The "next man up" doesn't work that well with numerous player changes.

Right.  The next man up would work.  But we're now on the next-next-man up, and in some cases the next-next-next-man up.  The 4th stringer TC fodder are not how you build a win-now team.

Quote from: Road Griller on June 16, 2024, 06:12:11 AM2024 our depth chart looks weak compared to our opponents. 

Only on D.  On O our depth chart is miles above every other one in the league, especially if you go by TSN top-50-player rankings (or any other method, IMHO).

However, Kenny being out may turn us into a more mid-level O.

Yes, I'm not forgetting the woes on the OL... I think they'll find solutions there soon.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 16, 2024, 06:27:22 AMOnly on D.  On O our depth chart is miles above every other one in the league, especially if you go by TSN top-50-player rankings (or any other method, IMHO).

However, Kenny being out may turn us into a more mid-level O.

Yes, I'm not forgetting the woes on the OL... I think they'll find solutions there soon.

Agree the D is bad, reversing roster decisions could clean some of it but Calgary, BC, Montreal heck even Sask and Elks have explosive players on offence.  Hamilton O is the only weak spot but let's see what happens today.  We may be #9.

I don't see the separation anymore.  Going into game 5 without tossing a TD pass.

Hopefully they find a solution.  Can't go 5 games without throwing a TD in the CFL and expect to Have success.

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 16, 2024, 05:22:47 AMYour statement was "A combo or a few fresh faces and next man up will fix our wagon imo."  That statement is unrealistic no matter how you attempt to explain it after the fact.  New faces and players on the PR are not going to bring us where we need to be.  It's people like Lawler, Oliviera, Haba, Fox, Lawson, Parker etc. that will bring us to where we need to be once they are ready to return.

To be clear, I didn't forget about our vets on our IR and how their return is key.  To suggest that my idea of next man up didnt include or rely upon our vets returning is a weird assumption.  That was my original point. Our vets are hurt but unless they are gone for season obviously they are a big part of the equation.  That was stating the obvious the 1st time and now you are doubling down on that not sure why.  There are many ways to deal with injuries and lineup issues, next man up has shown its a good way in the past and I hope that will again be the case.

My statement of "A combo of a few fresh faces and next man up will fix our wagon imo." Was referring to techno's idea of bringing in castoff gems and vets combined with next man up. This idea is also obviously rooted in our players returning from IR, again I thought that would be obvious.  To suggest that my "combo" statement is unrealistic is false.  We have 3 ways to deal with team depth, injuries and performance issues.  Next man up (PR and past cuts), bring castoff gems and vets and by waiting to get healthy.  Please explain how any of that is unrealistic.  You are appearing to ne more interested in proving me wrong by than contributing to the thread.  All I wanted to do was provide another idea to techno on how we might proceed.  I think that management will bring in the necessary talent to fill the holes our player on the IR have brought.  I do agree those names you mention are critical to our success.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 16, 2024, 06:19:58 AMRight.  The next man up would work.  But we're now on the next-next-man up, and in some cases the next-next-next-man up.  The 4th stringer TC fodder are not how you build a win-now team.

It is an issue, next man up was deeper in talent in the past.  However, I think management will make some informed decisions to us or PR and training camp cuts to shore us up.  Might not be ideal but that players will help rebuild our depth if they are decent or we have patience with them. Yes winning now is ideal but we have some time to figure this our.  If these injuries happened later in the season and our record was poor I would be less interested in next man up.  Like I said a combo of next man up, cast off gems and vets is likely in the cards.  My expectation is management will try next man up 1st as that what they have done in the past.  Will he an interesting few weeks to be sure to see what happens.  In the meantime or debate will continue on what we think might happen or should occur.

I really appreciate your ideas and debate here.  Thanks.  I don't have all the answers on how we can deal with the rosters issues but collectively we all have good ideas to debate and brainstorm.

Lawler being out isn't the problem. He was out last year and we still had a dominant offence. 

Our offensive problems start with replacing two starting O lineman who are no where near as good as the guys they replaced. Add in Neuf who looks like he aged out in the off season and we have the worst O line we've had in years.

Brady O's injury means we can't get ahead of the sticks on a regular basis, which means throwing 10+ yard passes, which means Collaros needs more time than the OL can give him. That makes Collaros look like he's aged out in the off season. 

Games are won and lost in the trenches, it has been that way for a long time. Its a big reason why a few adds put Mtrl near the top last year, It was the reason we won our first couple Grey Cups and IMO the same reason we lost our last couple.

We have had a very good O-line for many years and arguably one of the best D-lines, however for whatever reason we decided that our D-line especially could purely run off of next man up philosophy and got weaker, as it got weaker so did our dominance....coincidence??? Just look last week at the pressure and compete on our defence until Habba and Fox went down. then Ott's offence changed....did they get better??  No we played with a way to thin d-line made up of rotation pieces and rookies.

Some guys especially along the o-line we couldn't afford to keep and that is the nature of the beast, but what I don't like is the lack of d-lineman we roster, the illusion of an attitude that it's next man up regardless....look I don't like the guy, but if we brought in Lemon instead of Mtrl. I bet we are defending champs..

Yes we have detrimental injuries this year, but it's the lines where we are losing IMO....true Zach needs to play better, but without a run game this is Zach. Give him a solid run game and watch the o-line look better and he will also, I strongly believe that.

Last week was too easy for the opposition, we had only 4 d-lineman that were outta position, tired and inexperienced...that bought Ott just that bit of an edge. Our offence had zero threat of a run game, again giving Ott defence that bit of an edge.

Osh and team have taken us to four straight, so they have grace, but "next man up" is not do-able right now....we added a D-lineman, great start we should IMO keep adding. If Brady is out any longer we need to do something to address our lack of run game, JA is a great rotation piece, MCI is too raw. It's not fair to fully evaluate this o-line without establishing a run game and having a back that can block like AH did and Brady is developing into.

Is all lost....no but we need players especially along the d-line, we need to roster at least 7-8, and we need to establish a run game.

We play BC then Calgary in the next two weeks. 0-4 isn't out of the question if we play like we did in the first two games & they play like they did in the first 2 games. 

Quote from: Road Griller on June 16, 2024, 01:50:22 PMAgree the D is bad, reversing roster decisions could clean some of it but Calgary, BC, Montreal heck even Sask and Elks have explosive players on offence.  Hamilton O is the only weak spot but let's see what happens today.  We may be #9.

I don't see the separation anymore.  Going into game 5 without tossing a TD pass.

Hopefully they find a solution.  Can't go 5 games without throwing a TD in the CFL and expect to Have success.

Disagree that our D is bad, way too early to state that imo, we have some injuries, new faces at DB and depth concerns on the DL.  So far the D has played reasonably well considering all factors and the O has played poorly.

You reference to 5 games carries no weight.  It's 2.  But yes need some majors asap.

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 16, 2024, 05:53:58 PMDisagree that our D is bad, way too early to state that imo, we have some injuries, new faces at DB and depth concerns on the DL.  So far the D has played reasonably well considering all factors and the O has played poorly.

You reference to 5 games carries no weight.  It's 2.  But yes need some majors asap.

We do have the horses to make the D better, just have to use the roster effectively and nationalize and American.  No need to play so many nationals.

WF, GC, week 1, week 2 without throwing a TD pass for Zach.  It carries weight for sure, probably like a 800 pound gorilla on his back. 

Hopefully things shake loose and we see 3+ tds through the air.  Another 0 td with a pick or two won't get it done.

Quote from: Road Griller on June 16, 2024, 06:24:34 PMWe do have the horses to make the D better, just have to use the roster effectively and nationalize and American.  No need to play so many nationals.

WF, GC, week 1, week 2 without throwing a TD pass for Zach.  It carries weight for sure, probably like a 800 pound gorilla on his back. 

Hopefully things shake loose and we see 3+ tds through the air.  Another 0 td with a pick or two won't get it done.

I trust the team to manage the roster. None of us have the solution for this group.  I trust the pros.

Our club focuses game to game.  Zach is a true professional and will be less focused on the past than next game, imo.  I don't see it weighing on him like you suggest. Your idea to go back to last season as a trend holds no weight imo.  You previously were counting preseason as part of our trends, which I even more strongly disagreed on.  It's a new season, 2 games is not a trend for a player of Zach's level.

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 16, 2024, 06:28:52 PMI trust the team to manage the roster. None of us have the solution for this group.  I trust the pros.

Our club focuses game to game.  Zach is a true professional and will be less focused on the past than next game, imo.  I don't see it weighing on him like you suggest. Your idea to go back to last season as a trend holds no weight imo.  You previously were counting preseason as part of our trends, which I even more strongly disagreed on.  It's a new season, 2 games is not a trend for a player of Zach's level.

We have to trust the team to manage the roster, we don't have a choice.  Doesn't mean they are doing it right 100% of the time.  Especially when the L's start piling up.  Things come into question.

Zach has been off the last four games he has started.  Doesn't matter if you count them or not. Not a single TD pass.  The trend has to come to an end if the team has any chance of saving this season.

An offensive break out Friday would be awesome to see.  Along with a stout D shutting down Big Play VA.  Need to keep him off the field.

Quote from: Road Griller on June 16, 2024, 06:38:32 PMWe have to trust the team to manage the roster, we don't have a choice.  Doesn't mean they are doing it right 100% of the time.  Especially when the L's start piling up.  Things come into question.

Zach has been off the last four games he has started.  Doesn't matter if you count them or not. Not a single TD pass.  The trend has to come to an end if the team has any chance of saving this season.

An offensive break out Friday would be awesome to see.  Along with a stout D shutting down Big Play VA.  Need to keep him off the field.

Trust is a choice but yes our rants on here won't change the roster lol.

I am not concerned about the trend but yes we need success and TDs passes.

Yup you nailed what we need Fri.  Offense to find some MOJO and shut big play VA down.

It will be a tough game.  I will be happy if we are competitive, the game is close and we see big improvements on O and D firms up.

I would also like to see better kick coverage.

I want to let you know that while we don't seem to agree on a few things, I do enjoy some of your contributions to the forum. 

Too Early to panic just yet - I do have some concerns that need to be addressed. Let's see what happens over the balance of the month etc.

Quote from: TBURGESS on June 16, 2024, 04:07:07 PMWe play BC then Calgary in the next two weeks. 0-4 isn't out of the question if we play like we did in the first two games & they play like they did in the first 2 games.

We need to pray for parity and that all the W teams will be around .500-.600.  That is really what we need until we figure things out.

Luckily... West favorite BC is looking just like a .500 team!  In many ways they look far weaker than last season in so many units.  Just like us, yay!  So if/when it comes down to BC/WPG in WDF we'll have a fighting chance.

The key will be hoping upstarts SSK & CGY face tough opponents or stink up a few.  SSK looks good with their league-best record, but I think it's a mirage as both games they kind of lucked into by having less oopsies.  But... look at their horrific misconduct penalties!  That bodes well for us when we face them!  And besides, odds are great that T.Harris won't last a season.

The best we can do right now is put the noses to the grindstone and eke out a win against the W where we can, hopefully starting with BC.  If our O with its massively-paid stars can't get things ticking, we're doomed.

Quote from: BBRT on June 16, 2024, 07:13:03 PMToo Early to panic just yet - I do have some concerns that need to be addressed. Let's see what happens over the balance of the month etc.

Agreed. If they're 0-4 to close out the month, it'll be time to start worrying.

Some things:

The team isn't as good as the teams from 2019 to 2023. Not on paper. Not in reality.

There's not a lot we could have done to avoid this situation. We could have retained Hardrick instead of Schoen or something, but regardless we'd still probably be 0-2. Teams rise and teams fall. We've enjoyed a ton of success but when a team falls, they usually fall fast and hard. That's us.

Walters didn't stop being a good GM. O'Shea is still a good head coach. We still have a culture and destination players like to play in.

This is probably going to be a .500 ish year. The good news is you can re-build a CFL franchise very quickly. Montreal was pegged to be one of the worst teams last year. They won the Grey Cup and are now a favourite to do it again.

Am I concerned about this year? Depends what you mean. We're not going 15-3. Will probably be battling for anywhere between second and fourth in the west depending on injuries. Could we still win the Grey Cup? Yep. Do I think that because of this year we'll have a stronger team next year? Yes also.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 18, 2024, 01:36:05 PMAgreed. If they're 0-4 to close out the month, it'll be time to start worrying.

Looking at the schedule I see us most likely heading into Banjo Bowl with 1 win. 2 at most unless they pivot and pivot quickly.

It is too early to back up the truck and get rid of Players.
We need an improvement in the OL And that will help our quarterback immensely.
Injuries has taken it's toll but it will happen to other teams too.
We have good management and scouts So don't sell your tickets.

I feel blessed that we had 4 excellent years of football. Your just not going to be a great team every year. 

Quote from: Pigskin on June 18, 2024, 02:15:25 PMI feel blessed that we had 4 excellent years of football. Your just not going to be a great team every year. 

No, but a competitive team is to be expected.  From first to worst in the division is not acceptable.

Games are not cheap, some families spend thousands of dollars a season.

If they are not entertained that two week cabin rental or winter vacation looks better and better. 

It's not like people still can't watch the games if they decide to.

Quote from: Road Griller on June 18, 2024, 03:07:04 PMNo, but a competitive team is to be expected.  From first to worst in the division is not acceptable.

Games are not cheap, some families spend thousands of dollars a season.

If they are not entertained that two week cabin rental or winter vacation looks better and better. 

It's not like people still can't watch the games if they decide to.

Well, if this is so painful for you, then don't watch and rent a cabin for a couple of weeks.

Quote from: Pigskin on June 18, 2024, 03:19:18 PMWell, if this is so painful for you, then don't watch and rent a cabin for a couple of weeks.

I don't think the team has that attitude, I hope not anyway.

Butts in the seats drives the machine.  It all starts there.  The die hards are not enough to turn a profit.  That said many of those are aging out and need to be replaced.

It's a big commitment.

If the team has little to no chance of being in the Cup 2025 does a family drop 4-5k on tickets and festivities for the entire  GC week/season or book that cruise for December?

It's like found money.  Cruises are also very entertaining.  Guaranteed.

Quote from: Pigskin on June 18, 2024, 02:15:25 PMI feel blessed that we had 4 excellent years of football. Your just not going to be a great team every year. 

I don't think anyone is disputing that the past 4 years have been good, but at the same time going from first to worst is unacceptable in any league. On top of that, it appears the team itself has 0 answers or direction. Coaches are making questionable calls, roster management has been questionable at times, every hole the team had coming into the season appears to not have been addressed properly.

It's early, but if this trend continues then that 4 years is gonna feel like a lifetime ago soon enough.

Bombers defence ranked third after two weeks.


https://www.reddit.com/r/CFL/s/grp1h14OiW

Quote from: markf on June 18, 2024, 04:30:42 PMBombers defence ranked third after two weeks.


https://www.reddit.com/r/CFL/s/grp1h14OiW

Is there one for the offense? Not that I'd want to see it.... :-\

Quote from: markf on June 18, 2024, 04:30:42 PMBombers defence ranked third after two weeks.


https://www.reddit.com/r/CFL/s/grp1h14OiW

Interesting. It's always a chicken or egg question. Bombers defence was on the field a lot. Our offence and ST's didn't help their cause. Obviously if the offence plays better that will help.

However, the Lions are more of a quick score chunk offence, so we have to take that away. Winning TOP doesn't help if Lions get those quick big plays. Field position is an issue. Kick deep and limit long returns. Try and get some better blocking on our own returns.

The above is obvious and cliche but what else can we say?

Quote from: Blue In BC on June 18, 2024, 05:15:33 PMInteresting. It's always a chicken or egg question. Bombers defence was on the field a lot. Our offence and ST's didn't help their cause. Obviously if the offence plays better that will help.

However, the Lions are more of a quick score chunk offence, so we have to take that away.
The above is obvious and cliche but what else can we say?

The Lions o line started badly the other day, then changed one player, at guard, which must have helped.

held up against a constant blitz, and then started feeding stanback, who made crucial yards. I thought the Bombers looked good against the run so far, but Fox out, might affect that

this is actually a big game, already.

0-3 would be pretty craptacular.

Quote from: Pigskin on June 18, 2024, 03:19:18 PMWell, if this is so painful for you, then don't watch and rent a cabin for a couple of weeks.

The last 4 games have felt like 2013 all over again.  Just 3 hours of sitting at my cottage near Kenora and screaming profanities furiously at my TV.  I'd be seriously impressed if we do better than 11-7 this year.

Quote from: VictorRomano on June 18, 2024, 07:10:12 PMThe last 4 games have felt like 2013 all over again.  Just 3 hours of sitting at my cottage near Kenora and screaming profanities furiously at my TV.  I'd be seriously impressed if we do better than 11-7 this year.

Maybe time to disconnect the cable out there. ;)

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on June 18, 2024, 04:47:02 PMIs there one for the offense? Not that I'd want to see it.... :-\

(https://i.redd.it/14b1npv7qd7d1.png)

Who would have thought that offence would be the problem 2 weeks in?

Quote from: peg_city on June 18, 2024, 07:43:21 PM(https://i.redd.it/14b1npv7qd7d1.png)

Thanks. But yikes.

It's not always how you start, but how you finish that matters. Toronto finishing 16-2...did not matter. Stunk out the East finals last year and ousted convincingly. Still giving the boyz some time to get cooking. No need to panic yet. Start off 0-4 though then something probably has to be shaken up almost.

Some stirrings of life last game, hopefully they improve on that by leaps and bounds against BC as they will need it!

Calgary made the west playoffs at 6-12 last year, so it's not over until it's over! :D I know just scraping in is not what most people want, but a 9-9 Bombers team in 1988 won it all. So anything is possible. I think the record for below .500 teams winning a grey cup though is pretty small. 2000 and 2001 are the only ones that come to mind.....2001 especially painful as a great Bombers regular season team choked against Calgary in that Grey Cup. Calgary had an 8-10 record and looking pitiful going into the playoffs and then had a 3 game hot streak! Wally's world magic I guess! :D

Quote from: peg_city on June 18, 2024, 07:44:04 PMWho would have thought that offence would be the problem 2 weeks in?

I assumed we'd start slow because of the lack of reps, but this is ridiculous.

I'm not sure what's worse - the offense's start or the 2-3 posters on here doom-n-gloomin' back and forth in the echo chamber

Quote from: Jesse on June 18, 2024, 08:46:54 PMI assumed we'd start slow because of the lack of reps, but this is ridiculous.

It's funny, I rewatched week 1 and Suits kept saying all 1st half stuff like "just wait, Zach won't have rust for more than 1-2 series".  Just kept repeating that.  And then we went 2'n'out, 2'n'out, 2'n'out, 2'n'out.

Eventually Suits shut up about Zach when it was clear by halftime there was major trouble, right here in river city!  Trouble with a capital T, that rhymes with Z, and that stands for Zach!  :D  :D  :D

I can see the major week 3 TSN talking point being What's Up With WPG?  What's up with Zach?

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 18, 2024, 09:02:20 PMI'm not sure what's worse - the offense's start or the 2-3 posters on here doom-n-gloomin' back and forth in the echo chamber

Uh, if only 2-3 posters are "doom-n-gloomin'" in this forum then by definition it is not an echo chamber.  If anything, it's the opposite... (give that statement some thought)

And I've been counting... the "trouble in river city" crowd has grown to at least 5-6 posters if you look carefully at all the comments.  Only 2 of us are making a big stink though.  So many don't want to go against the crowd, but they sure do exist... I bet there's more lurking!!

But hey, I don't want anyone to misrepresent my stance.  I've been very clear:  I don't want to blow up the team or go nuts, I just want some indication that we're exploring all the options and doing all we can to make some SMS room to hopefully bring in a select 1-2 vets!  And I don't think we'll lose everything all year or not have a cup shot!  All I want to see is something other than "next-next-next man up", and much more effort and brains from all coaches and coordinators.

Oh ya, and the $225k+ crowd of players we have: they need to start earning their pay.

Agree on the $225k+ crowd comment. That's the problem when you're a big marque player getting the mega bucks while the rest of the team compromises their contract amount so we can keep the 'superstars' happy. Well if the superstars ain't producing—-and 3 measly touchdowns in 2 games is a massive disappointment, the natives get restless real quick. Folks say we couldn't afford rourke if he came back, bahahah, I'd cut Collaros so quick his head would spin, problem solved. With big big dollars come big big expectations and so far #8 has been a big big disappointment.

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 18, 2024, 09:02:20 PMI'm not sure what's worse - the offense's start or the 2-3 posters on here doom-n-gloomin' back and forth in the echo chamber

Definitely the latter. The former is out of anyone's control on the forum.

Quote from: dd on June 19, 2024, 03:30:43 AMAgree on the $225k+ crowd comment. That's the problem when you're a big marque player getting the mega bucks while the rest of the team compromises their contract amount so we can keep the 'superstars' happy. Well if the superstars ain't producing—-and 3 measly touchdowns in 2 games is a massive disappointment, the natives get restless real quick. Folks say we couldn't afford rourke if he came back, bahahah, I'd cut Collaros so quick his head would spin, problem solved. With big big dollars come big big expectations and so far #8 has been a big big disappointment.

Your best players have to be your best players.  QB,RB, MLB and two receivers are taking up way to much of the SMS IMO.

We can afford NR with just a few releases.  Not a problem.  We wouldn't even notice. Just do it before vet cut down day.

My concern level is at a 3.5/10.

ZC has been playing at the lowest level we've seen since joining the team.
Buck has barely implemented any intricate plays into the offense.
Lots of injuries piling up.

These are the 3 biggest issues we have right now. All 3 of these are going to improve.
ZC will get more reps and receivers and OL will build chemistry.
Buck will slowly implement more and more as the season goes on. 
Guys will get healthy. Olivera is day to day, so that will help getting him healthy. Lawler and Nichols are not done for the season, and Biggie is finally looking good and healthy!

I'm very optimistic since this is the worst we've seen the bombers play in a long time! Can only go up from there lol
Even if we finish the season 9-9, we will make the playoffs and be a big threat to win it all again. It just takes some time to retool this squad with the pieces we lost in the offseason.

I'll sum up my feeling about the team and the coaches with one word.....complacency

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 19, 2024, 03:08:24 AMUh, if only 2-3 posters are "doom-n-gloomin'" in this forum then by definition it is not an echo chamber.  If anything, it's the opposite... (give that statement some thought)

And I've been counting... the "trouble in river city" crowd has grown to at least 5-6 posters if you look carefully at all the comments.  Only 2 of us are making a big stink though.  So many don't want to go against the crowd, but they sure do exist... I bet there's more lurking!!

But hey, I don't want anyone to misrepresent my stance.  I've been very clear:  I don't want to blow up the team or go nuts, I just want some indication that we're exploring all the options and doing all we can to make some SMS room to hopefully bring in a select 1-2 vets!  And I don't think we'll lose everything all year or not have a cup shot!  All I want to see is something other than "next-next-next man up", and much more effort and brains from all coaches and coordinators.

Oh ya, and the $225k+ crowd of players we have: they need to start earning their pay.

I don't think anyone is denying the poor performances of the new guys or the highly paid guys. What I'm rolling my eyes at is stuff like:

- "we need to sign retired guys"
- "our players need to reneg their contracts"

Your thesis is something along the lines of, we need some sort of significant shakeup. I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion after 2 games. It might be as simple as: the new guys get better as their game experience grows (logical), and our highly paid guys start to earn their money (as we have precedence).

So it's not really the disappointment or even anger after the first two weeks I take exception with, it's the proposed solutions and lack of faith that these things can still come together in the next 19 weeks of football left. We did just go to four straight cups with this regime...

Now, I wonder what this place (which looks and feels like ground zero after an H bomb went off, if I'm gonna be honest) will look like on Friday if we whoop BC?

Quote from: LXTSN on June 19, 2024, 03:34:19 PMBuck has barely implemented any intricate plays into the offense.
Buck will slowly implement more and more as the season goes on.

Why?  Buck's O skill players only had 1 roster change compared to all of last year!  Only Bailey was swapped out.  Ya, with Kenny out now it's 2, but look just at half 1 of week 1 for argument's sake:

Why didn't we have the full playbook open for week 1?  Why did we need to slowly ramp up?  Just to make the 1 new guy comfortable?  It doesn't make any sense.  Logic dictates you play your normal book and just ignore the #5 as a decoy all game.

We lost our #5 WR.  MTL lost their #1 WR, and they were using their entire playbook playing 100% full speed just like last season never ended!

So why did we use just 1/10th of our book?  Make it make sense.

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 19, 2024, 08:30:51 PM- "we need to sign retired guys"
- "our players need to reneg their contracts"

Your thesis is something along the lines of, we need some sort of significant shakeup. I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion after 2 games. It might be as simple as: the new guys get better as their game experience grows (logical), and our highly paid guys start to earn their money (as we have precedence).

You bash the restructure idea but still to this day not a single person has said how we can get more SMS to sign anyone over ELC.

Ok, so you'll say you don't want to sign anyone except TC cuts, as we are doing.  That's a valid opinion.

So you are precluding us from signing any vet, whether retired or not.  Even though we have precedence for this (Denmark).

So I ask, who's smoking the hopium and having magical thinking that the Nth man down the TC cut roster is going to "get better as their game experience grows".

We didn't have a single "best hips I've ever seen", "this kid is the next big CFL WR", guy in TC this year (or last).  That doesn't mean these kids can't be the next all-star after 2-3 years in the league.  But it almost certainly means they won't be the next Alford or Schoen in year 1!!  And we need dire help right now.

It's like you've forgotten how far down the depth chart we're dredging now.  I would 100% agree with what you are saying if the week 3 depth chart was identical to the week 1 chart.  But it's not.  Many positions are now the backups, or 3rd or 4th stringers.  And even the positions that only went from starter to backup went from "weak week 1 starter that probably wasn't starter material to being with" to "even weaker" because they were already next-man-up from last season's personnel losses!!

We will have an incredibly hard time winning any games if our week X starters are the guys that were deemed too poor to even be on the PR in week 1!

And ya, I have nothing against "retirees" like Jeffcoat.  Are you telling me that if KW says he signed Jeffcoat and he starts week 3 that you wouldn't be excited and hopeful?  What, you'd be angry?  Disappointed?  You'd rather we start a nobody that couldn't even make our PR in 2023?  It's like you've forgotten that Haba was injured in week 2!  I can't even name who'll start DE at week 3, can you?

Other teams are starting their runs for the cup and taking every game seriously.  Just like we used to.  And we're sitting here starting TC fodder at many key positions, and probably going to keep start 9, 10, heck why not 14 NATs, because we all know that NATs excel at DL in the CFL...

I don't want a shakeup compared to the week 1 chart.  I want something done about the week 3 chart!  I'm only proposing bringing in 1-3 vets, maybe one at a time week to week, at the most-key positions.  Since I've decided we need to focus on the O and 40 points, I'd start with a vet 5th WR.  I'd like to see a beast IMP OL as 3rd IMP, but I do appreciate how that is much harder to plug'n'play mid-season.  And I'd like to see a vet DE and/or DT.  WR and DL can 100% be plug'n'play (see MTL last season), so no reason not to try.

1, 2, or 3 vet acquisitions is not a "shakeup", and many teams have already made such moves since week 1 to cover their injury/performance woes!!  Why not us?  Why is this controversial?  This year is nothing like past years where it was our superstars injured and the heir apparent was already in-house and quite capable of tiding us over until the vet returned.  So why are we treating it as such?

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 19, 2024, 08:30:51 PMNow, I wonder what this place (which looks and feels like ground zero after an H bomb went off, if I'm gonna be honest) will look like on Friday if we whoop BC?

Then I'll be praising the Lord and handing out cigars to everyone.  We all want to win.

And hey, we could win because it's still a game @PAS, and even without Kenny we still have one of the strongest O's on paper, and BC is showing cracks.  If our OL tightens up, Zach shapes up, Desmki/Schoen wake up, and the 2 rookies don't screw up, we could possibly achieve the 40 we'll need to win.

It'll take a ton of pressure off of change ideas for the O.  But it won't do anything to reduce the calls for fixes for the 10th-men-up on the D...

Quote from: kkc60 on June 18, 2024, 03:39:37 PMI don't think anyone is disputing that the past 4 years have been good, but at the same time going from first to worst is unacceptable in any league. On top of that, it appears the team itself has 0 answers or direction. Coaches are making questionable calls, roster management has been questionable at times, every hole the team had coming into the season appears to not have been addressed properly.

It's early, but if this trend continues then that 4 years is gonna feel like a lifetime ago soon enough.

Over stated on the negative imo 2 games means nothing, 4 years of success doesn't get evaporated like you suggest.  A few holes yes but getting healthy will right this good ship blue.

Quote from: blue_or_die on June 18, 2024, 09:02:20 PMI'm not sure what's worse - the offense's start or the 2-3 posters on here doom-n-gloomin' back and forth in the echo chamber

It's how this place operates with any sign if weakness.  Go view the posts from pre dynasty years, same situation.

Quote from: Blueforlife on June 20, 2024, 12:22:18 AMOver stated on the negative imo 2 games means nothing, 4 years of success doesn't get evaporated like you suggest.  A few holes yes but getting healthy will right this good ship blue.

didn't say it evaporates, just that losing can also take a toll, especially if the team is uncompetitive.

As for the health thing figuring things out, sure yeah it definitely might if everyone  is healthy and return to form from last season. But that's a biiiiiig if.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 20, 2024, 12:04:38 AMYou bash the restructure idea but still to this day not a single person has said how we can get more SMS to sign anyone over ELC.

Ok, so you'll say you don't want to sign anyone except TC cuts, as we are doing.  That's a valid opinion.

So you are precluding us from signing any vet, whether retired or not.  Even though we have precedence for this (Denmark).

So I ask, who's smoking the hopium and having magical thinking that the Nth man down the TC cut roster is going to "get better as their game experience grows".

We didn't have a single "best hips I've ever seen", "this kid is the next big CFL WR", guy in TC this year (or last).  That doesn't mean these kids can't be the next all-star after 2-3 years in the league.  But it almost certainly means they won't be the next Alford or Schoen in year 1!!  And we need dire help right now.

It's like you've forgotten how far down the depth chart we're dredging now.  I would 100% agree with what you are saying if the week 3 depth chart was identical to the week 1 chart.  But it's not.  Many positions are now the backups, or 3rd or 4th stringers.  And even the positions that only went from starter to backup went from "weak week 1 starter that probably wasn't starter material to being with" to "even weaker" because they were already next-man-up from last season's personnel losses!!

We will have an incredibly hard time winning any games if our week X starters are the guys that were deemed too poor to even be on the PR in week 1!

And ya, I have nothing against "retirees" like Jeffcoat.  Are you telling me that if KW says he signed Jeffcoat and he starts week 3 that you wouldn't be excited and hopeful?  What, you'd be angry?  Disappointed?  You'd rather we start a nobody that couldn't even make our PR in 2023?  It's like you've forgotten that Haba was injured in week 2!  I can't even name who'll start DE at week 3, can you?

Other teams are starting their runs for the cup and taking every game seriously.  Just like we used to.  And we're sitting here starting TC fodder at many key positions, and probably going to keep start 9, 10, heck why not 14 NATs, because we all know that NATs excel at DL in the CFL...

I don't want a shakeup compared to the week 1 chart.  I want something done about the week 3 chart!  I'm only proposing bringing in 1-3 vets, maybe one at a time week to week, at the most-key positions.  Since I've decided we need to focus on the O and 40 points, I'd start with a vet 5th WR.  I'd like to see a beast IMP OL as 3rd IMP, but I do appreciate how that is much harder to plug'n'play mid-season.  And I'd like to see a vet DE and/or DT.  WR and DL can 100% be plug'n'play (see MTL last season), so no reason not to try.

1, 2, or 3 vet acquisitions is not a "shakeup", and many teams have already made such moves since week 1 to cover their injury/performance woes!!  Why not us?  Why is this controversial?  This year is nothing like past years where it was our superstars injured and the heir apparent was already in-house and quite capable of tiding us over until the vet returned.  So why are we treating it as such?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 20, 2024, 12:04:38 AMYou bash the restructure idea but still to this day not a single person has said how we can get more SMS to sign anyone over ELC.

Ok, so you'll say you don't want to sign anyone except TC cuts, as we are doing.  That's a valid opinion.

So you are precluding us from signing any vet, whether retired or not.  Even though we have precedence for this (Denmark).

So I ask, who's smoking the hopium and having magical thinking that the Nth man down the TC cut roster is going to "get better as their game experience grows".

We didn't have a single "best hips I've ever seen", "this kid is the next big CFL WR", guy in TC this year (or last).  That doesn't mean these kids can't be the next all-star after 2-3 years in the league.  But it almost certainly means they won't be the next Alford or Schoen in year 1!!  And we need dire help right now.

It's like you've forgotten how far down the depth chart we're dredging now.  I would 100% agree with what you are saying if the week 3 depth chart was identical to the week 1 chart.  But it's not.  Many positions are now the backups, or 3rd or 4th stringers.  And even the positions that only went from starter to backup went from "weak week 1 starter that probably wasn't starter material to being with" to "even weaker" because they were already next-man-up from last season's personnel losses!!

We will have an incredibly hard time winning any games if our week X starters are the guys that were deemed too poor to even be on the PR in week 1!

And ya, I have nothing against "retirees" like Jeffcoat.  Are you telling me that if KW says he signed Jeffcoat and he starts week 3 that you wouldn't be excited and hopeful?  What, you'd be angry?  Disappointed?  You'd rather we start a nobody that couldn't even make our PR in 2023?  It's like you've forgotten that Haba was injured in week 2!  I can't even name who'll start DE at week 3, can you?

Other teams are starting their runs for the cup and taking every game seriously.  Just like we used to.  And we're sitting here starting TC fodder at many key positions, and probably going to keep start 9, 10, heck why not 14 NATs, because we all know that NATs excel at DL in the CFL...

I don't want a shakeup compared to the week 1 chart.  I want something done about the week 3 chart!  I'm only proposing bringing in 1-3 vets, maybe one at a time week to week, at the most-key positions.  Since I've decided we need to focus on the O and 40 points, I'd start with a vet 5th WR.  I'd like to see a beast IMP OL as 3rd IMP, but I do appreciate how that is much harder to plug'n'play mid-season.  And I'd like to see a vet DE and/or DT.  WR and DL can 100% be plug'n'play (see MTL last season), so no reason not to try.

1, 2, or 3 vet acquisitions is not a "shakeup", and many teams have already made such moves since week 1 to cover their injury/performance woes!!  Why not us?  Why is this controversial?  This year is nothing like past years where it was our superstars injured and the heir apparent was already in-house and quite capable of tiding us over until the vet returned.  So why are we treating it as such?

the thing is we cant afford to lose any of the players we might want to restructure and they say no.We sure dont have anyone close to replacing these players I agree some are overpaid right now Jefferson, Collaros for example but how do you justify pay cuts when we just overpaid Olivera and Schoen?
we didn't have to sign both, when we did Walters/O'Shea knew there would be little left over.

Quote from: Pete on June 20, 2024, 02:15:54 AMthe thing is we cant afford to lose any of the players we might want to restructure and they say no.We sure dont have anyone close to replacing these players I agree some are overpaid right now Jefferson, Collaros for example but how do you justify pay cuts when we just overpaid Olivera and Schoen?
we didn't have to sign both, when we did Walters/O'Shea knew there would be little left over.

Asking players to restructure their contracts 2 weeks into the season is a ridiculous crazy idea that no rational GM would ever consider implementing. No better way to check a fall than to lose a bundle of games early in the season which reveals the cracks in the foundation that have formed over the years.  If they're lucky they'll have a chance to redeem themselves in the second half of the season if they make the appropriate adjustments and are still able to sneak into the playoffs, anything can happen.  Consider what Mtl. achieved just last season.

Quote from: Pete on June 20, 2024, 02:15:54 AMthe thing is we cant afford to lose any of the players we might want to restructure and they say no.

That's why I said, this isn't something you force or coerce.  It's something you mention to the guys when you get all $225k+ players in 1 room.  Or the media can whisper it.  Or a single player starts the ball rolling.

In no way do you ever say to your top guys "you restructure or it's the highway".  All it takes is one guy, then FIFO takes over.

If they say no, that's that, and we either find other ideas or we continue down the never-sign-any-vet-again path.  That's why from my first post on I've also asked for other ideas.  I also thought this idea was a 100-to-1 shot, and it still is.  But it's an idea.

If there are no other ideas, it'll be just like KW said: ELC only!

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 20, 2024, 03:36:22 AMIf they're lucky they'll have a chance to redeem themselves in the second half of the season if they make the appropriate adjustments and are still able to sneak into the playoffs, anything can happen.  Consider what Mtl. achieved just last season.

Ya, but MTL is in the E where (often) only 1 team will lose out.  We're in the W, with not only 1 extra team vying for the same number of playoff berths, but also, historically, the much better talent/teams.

CGY snuck into the playoffs with 6 wins in 2023.  Can we pull off 6 wins this season if the week 2 roster is basically what we're stuck with?  My hunch is we can, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

2024 is shaping up to have parity E vs W.  That means the xover is likely out of play (again).  Looks like 6-8 wins will be required for any playoff berth this season.  And now we won't have the "free bingo spots" when we face E teams.  Heck, just look at what OTT did to us...

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 19, 2024, 11:42:50 PMWhy?  Buck's O skill players only had 1 roster change compared to all of last year!  Only Bailey was swapped out.  Ya, with Kenny out now it's 2, but look just at half 1 of week 1 for argument's sake:

Why didn't we have the full playbook open for week 1?  Why did we need to slowly ramp up?  Just to make the 1 new guy comfortable?  It doesn't make any sense.  Logic dictates you play your normal book and just ignore the #5 as a decoy all game.

We lost our #5 WR.  MTL lost their #1 WR, and they were using their entire playbook playing 100% full speed just like last season never ended!

So why did we use just 1/10th of our book?  Make it make sense.

I wouldn't necessary say that it was the right decision, but I think it is pretty clear to see that they don't have the full playbook open to the offence for the first 2 games.

Bailey, Hardrick, Gray were big parts of the offence, plus with Olivera and Lawler out for the game it added another backup and a rookie into the lineup. It's just not that easy to interject guys into the lineup in the CFL. Timing on the waggle and sweeps require lots of practice reps.

All I'm saying is that the playcalling from last year is not what we have seen yet this year, so it will improve! I will put my personal 100% (never failing) guarantee on this!