Lots of FA players never signed, or already-cut, and lots of newly-retired or force-retired guys too. All of them are options to bring in to fill our now-gaping holes.
Units of ours that have been decimated and may be in need of outside players:
DB (down our 2 best DBs and a spare)
DL (down or 2nd best DE, and best DT, and backup DT)
Positions we may possibly need someone at:
WR (down league's top paid WR)
RB (down league's 2nd best player, but probably only short term)
Let's start listing options for each unit, help out our GM, and make some guesses as to what we'll do.
One guess I can make at the moment is we're going to sign somebody, and I don't just mean TC cuts. We have enough holes now that we should have enough SMS to at least pick up a aging vet or middling late-cut guy.
I'll start: What's Jeffcoat & Stove doing? Ellingson's body still serviceable? Mohammad (from CGY) still available...
Mega bummer that M.Sayles and J.Grant just got picked up this month.
DL names were being thrown around in another thread: Kongbo, Bennet.
I'm short on ideas but don't like the names you have suggested. I like the idea of brainstorming a list. Sorry I can't contribute.
My only concern is DL and maybe DB.
Receivers we are fine, OL should work out the kinks. RB be fine.
I am willing to wait to develop our returner
Brining in new faces is based on length of our injuries.
We're not going to do a massive airlift.
Depending on the severity of a few injuries maybe we get a bit of help but otherwise we should use our practice roster and anyone else our scouts like that want to come for a look.
My hunch is we were always going to run a little lean this year to be aggressive for the home Grey Cup next year. They probably didn't expect to be 0-2 but we can be 7-11 and probably make the playoffs. The fun thing about the CFL is teams with losing records are usually in it until the very end and they sometimes win it all.
This off season we use some saved money to be much more aggressive in free agency. One middling season (if that's the outcome) doesn't change what's been built over a decade and players will choose Winnipeg over a lot of other options. We've got a ton of talent still we just need a mindset shift and some new pieces. They'll be available in the winter.
I said this before that it's a bit of a reload year I think it's just more obvious than the Bombers has hoped.
I'm thinking we bring back some our players cut after TC. Just to fill players lost to IR.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 15, 2024, 01:45:28 PMI'm thinking we bring back some our players cut after TC. Just to fill players lost to IR.
And that is just what they did signing DL Fayad and RB/KR Chris Smith today June 15th.
We aren't bringing back Jeffcoat or Stove. High SMS and long injury history. I suspect finished with football.
OTOH Walker is still technically a free agent but he may be looking at his post football career. Although he's a young guy that doesn't mean he has interest in continuing to play.
He's about the only veteran starter quality that comes to mind.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 15, 2024, 04:49:53 PMWe aren't bringing back Jeffcoat or Stove. High SMS and long injury history. I suspect finished with football.
OTOH Walker is still technically a free agent but he may be looking at his post football career. Although he's a young guy that doesn't mean he has interest in continuing to play.
He's about the only veteran starter quality that comes to mind.
It is odd that Walker walked away after agreeing to a deal with CGY. Have to wonder if he is taking calls at this time to come "home"...
Currently there are 47 players listed on teams 6 game IR and 32 on 1 game IR. Might be more headed there by the end of week 2. Oddly the Redblacks are the only team with nobody on either IR list.
Other teams have already signed TC cuts or veterans released after TC. Cupboards are bare.
Kongbo, Oakman.
Quote from: DM83 on June 15, 2024, 07:36:32 PMThis is a poor reflection on the scouts.
They didn't bring anyone in who impressed.
I see rot at the base of other "starters"
They need replacements also, although we will be forced to watch them take play after play off this Friday.
That's the part that really bugs me. And the other elephant in the room is quite evident that Collaros has lost even more off his arm from last year. Since we got him, he's lost at least five if not more yards on the deep ball
Willie our defensive end is playing like he wants to be not targeted. Well the last game effort should get him not double teamed. He simply is not putting forth an effort that is needed from one of the higher paid guys.
Third would be neufeld. Where did he. Go that one play? I am traumatized!
Fourth, whoever is the left guard simply can't play at the CFL level. He or they are no better than Grey. Grey at least went after the DBs, at the third level. I am not an O lineman by past experience. However a recent technique I saw but don't like, was to block the guy in front of themselves and let the back find a hole. I am sure Brey could do that.
Defensive line has Jake and that's it. I suspect their lack of pressure severely affects the secondary. Our Dbs Have looked like soft yogurt. The DE we had last year in Jeffcoat spot, the. Number one draft choice is not the answer. Scouts blew that # 1 pick. Yes Hana looked good, but now with the injury is out and the DE positions are in need of a fix.
Admit it no one made a play in the secondary. Close but not enough.
As a coach I liked to bring the blitz. If ever an explanation for what I would encourage is a zone blitz, like. The Chicago bears used back in the mid eighties. It seems like many teams use a form of it. When I employed it, we brought the OLBs unless a back leaked out... sort of a man match up under and a zone over top. I don't know if. Or how many teams use a form of it, but I think we have,used a form of it, and it works. Our defense hasn't given up too many home run plays, but when given an opportunity to make a tackle we have to ensure wrapping up.
Lastly, as many previous posters have noted, I have come to notice we don't have a receiver who can go downtown. Of course, that may be moot, because we don't have a QB who can throw that far.
So, that's why I am so disappointed.
I don't see it being solved by "staying the course". Of course the club wants to keep the "band together" and all will work out. But not when you see high paid guys taking plays off.
Prove me wrong!
Seen this story before, got the t-shirt. You were one of a small group pre dynasty that couldn't see the forest through the trees then and you still can't. Many wanted change back then in coaches, management and players and then we got 2 cups and a mini dynasty.
There is not rot in the starters, some are hurt. Our core of vets are excellent.
It's too early to write off the talent that the club brought in this season. Scouting has been a strength for this club for a long time.
Zach's arm is fine. He is a top QB, end of. Has looked bad in two games yes.
Willie and Neufeld are fine. Take em out and you will see how much we miss them.
DL isn't as bad and your suggest, we are hurt. Until healthy, yes a concern.
DBs are mix of young players, vets and injured. Some concern there.
Deep breath, patience paid off before and will again. We will take our licks as we gel, heal and find a few more bodies.
Let's watch a handful of game before we panic. Disappointed yes, worried not yet.
Quote from: DM83 on June 15, 2024, 07:36:32 PMThis is a poor reflection on the scouts.
They didn't bring anyone in who impressed.
I see rot at the base of other "starters"
They need replacements also, although we will be forced to watch them take play after play off this Friday.
That's the part that really bugs me. And the other elephant in the room is quite evident that Collaros has lost even more off his arm from last year. Since we got him, he's lost at least five if not more yards on the deep ball
Willie our defensive end is playing like he wants to be not targeted. Well the last game effort should get him not double teamed. He simply is not putting forth an effort that is needed from one of the higher paid guys.
Third would be neufeld. Where did he. Go that one play? I am traumatized!
Fourth, whoever is the left guard simply can't play at the CFL level. He or they are no better than Grey. Grey at least went after the DBs, at the third level. I am not an O lineman by past experience. However a recent technique I saw but don't like, was to block the guy in front of themselves and let the back find a hole. I am sure Brey could do that.
Defensive line has Jake and that's it. I suspect their lack of pressure severely affects the secondary. Our Dbs Have looked like soft yogurt. The DE we had last year in Jeffcoat spot, the. Number one draft choice is not the answer. Scouts blew that # 1 pick. Yes Hana looked good, but now with the injury is out and the DE positions are in need of a fix.
Admit it no one made a play in the secondary. Close but not enough.
As a coach I liked to bring the blitz. If ever an explanation for what I would encourage is a zone blitz, like. The Chicago bears used back in the mid eighties. It seems like many teams use a form of it. When I employed it, we brought the OLBs unless a back leaked out... sort of a man match up under and a zone over top. I don't know if. Or how many teams use a form of it, but I think we have,used a form of it, and it works. Our defense hasn't given up too many home run plays, but when given an opportunity to make a tackle we have to ensure wrapping up.
Lastly, as many previous posters have noted, I have come to notice we don't have a receiver who can go downtown. Of course, that may be moot, because we don't have a QB who can throw that far.
So, that's why I am so disappointed.
I don't see it being solved by "staying the course". Of course the club wants to keep the "band together" and all will work out. But not when you see high paid guys taking plays off.
Prove me wrong!
Thanks coach.
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 15, 2024, 01:11:41 PMThis off season we use some saved money to be much more aggressive in free agency. One middling season (if that's the outcome) doesn't change what's been built over a decade and players will choose Winnipeg over a lot of other options. We've got a ton of talent still we just need a mindset shift and some new pieces. They'll be available in the winter.
Just like we've lost the "you can't beat us" mystique,
I think we're losing the "choose Winnipeg for less money" aura. We're losing players to FA and retirement for maybe $20k-$40k difference in bid/ask. That didn't used to happen.
I think we're also making players feel unvalued and unwanted when we let them slide into FA (think Jeffcoat, Grant). Why not tell them "we just can't afford you but we'll leave an offer on the table and ya it's lowball but if other teams only offer you $20k more, come on back here we still love you and we're your best option".
I think we're leaving a sour taste in their mouths and so we get the Grant situation where they probably paid him $20k over what we could have scrounged up and he took it because we burned the bridge.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 15, 2024, 01:45:28 PMI'm thinking we bring back some our players cut after TC. Just to fill players lost to IR.
Ya, but we're rapidly churning through so many players we'll start to run out of remotely-decent quality TC attendees! :o
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 15, 2024, 06:51:36 PMCurrently there are 47 players listed on teams 6 game IR and 32 on 1 game IR. Might be more headed there by the end of week 2. Oddly the Redblacks are the only team with nobody on either IR list.
Wouldn't Masoli qualify? He's signed and clearly not going to play for months. Also, keep in mind there are probably at least a few "fake" 6GIR guys on unscrupulous teams.
Quote from: DM83 on June 15, 2024, 07:36:32 PMThis is a poor reflection on the scouts.
They didn't bring anyone in who impressed.
That's the part that really bugs me. And the other elephant in the room is quite evident that Collaros has lost even more off his arm from last year. Since we got him, he's lost at least five if not more yards on the deep ball
Scouts: so far it's clear we didn't find an Alford/Schoen this year (or last). So ya, disappointing, especially after seeing how well MTL has scouted for 2 seasons in a row.
Zach: I won't make a claim on arm strength just yet. He did have the huge bomb to Demski. However, his hail Mary could only go 50Y, and our R's were waiting around 55-60Y away. BUT, that may have been a function of the rain.
To me it still feels more like a dialing in issue, the proof being that he overthrows as much as underthrows. Kind of like BLM's troubles, but much less exaggerated and dire. I'm sure Zach has plenty of arm life left. It's literally one of the least of my worries.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 15, 2024, 04:49:53 PMWe aren't bringing back Jeffcoat or Stove. High SMS and long injury history. I suspect finished with football.
OTOH Walker is still technically a free agent but he may be looking at his post football career. Although he's a young guy that doesn't mean he has interest in continuing to play.
He's about the only veteran starter quality that comes to mind.
Stove retired and is finished. He blew out something so royally he can never play again if I recall correctly.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on June 16, 2024, 06:48:57 AMStove retired and is finished. He blew out something so royally he can never play again if I recall correctly.
Like, three seasons in a row he blew something royally without ever playing a snap.
Geeze, I loved the guy but I have no idea why his name is brought up so much. He has been put on this pedestal because he was never able to play after he left the team. It's turned into something bigger than he was.
I wonder if there is any consideration bringing back Jeffcoat, even if it's for only a few games? That isn't something teams usually do but nothing says it can't be done. Short term rental per se.
We don't really know long Haba and Garbutt will be out. In theory it could be anything from another week to season ending.
Fayad might be a great addition, but he's the next, next, next man up after players looking to replace Jeffcoat.
IMO Oakman is not an option.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 17, 2024, 02:26:16 PMI wonder if there is any consideration bringing back Jeffcoat, even if it's for only a few games? That isn't something teams usually do but nothing says it can't be done. Short term rental per se.
We don't really know long Haba and Garbutt will be out. In theory it could be anything from another week to season ending.
Fayad might be a great addition, but he's the next, next, next man up after players looking to replace Jeffcoat.
IMO Oakman is not an option.
I don't think that Jeffcoat:
A: has kept in game shape
or
B: has any interest in playing for a team that "snubbed" him.
Now, if the team reached ou to him with an olive branch and asked him how long it would take to get into game shape, and that they'd be interested in him returning for the stretch run, relaxed and healed up, with a sweet paycheck for limited games, I can see both sides looking favourably at that.
IF he still has the desire/passion to play. IF he hasn't moved on to post football career that a return to the CFL would disrupt.
Always loved what the Jeff's brought to the game, it would be sweet to have him as an option even if Haba is back.
I don't know if players not being re-signed look at it as being snubbed. It's business so age, injuries, SMS and positional needs all factor into every decision.
Whether he is in game shape or is now injury free are valid questions. OTOH, Fayad missed most of TC and may not be in game shape either. Obviously he's younger but he's also less experienced.
What experience that Jeffcoat has between his ears is worthwhile. We've got a bunch of rookies playing and his leadership alone would be valuable.
No other team has signed him and I'm not sure if we even made him an offer. So I think he's moved on. I'd make the all though just to see what his thoughts are at the moment.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 17, 2024, 04:11:12 PMI don't know if players not being re-signed look at it as being snubbed. It's business so age, injuries, SMS and positional needs all factor into every decision.
Whether he is in game shape or is now injury free are valid questions. OTOH, Fayad missed most of TC and may not be in game shape either. Obviously he's younger but he's also less experienced.
What experience that Jeffcoat has between his ears is worthwhile. We've got a bunch of rookies playing and his leadership alone would be valuable.
No other team has signed him and I'm not sure if we even made him an offer. So I think he's moved on. I'd make the all though just to see what his thoughts are at the moment.
Any player "passed over" in FA feels snubbed, I have no doubt. Whether it is Andrew Harris, Jeffcoat or even Bailey, there is no doubt a short term animosity, even if their logical mind understand, the emotional mind is hurt. IIRC there were some fairly strained communications when Jeffcoat wasn't brought back.
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/not-mad-but-at-peace-bombers-jeffcoat-calls-it-a-career
"After hearing almost nothing from the Bombers this off-season, Jeffcoat on Friday told me he's retiring from football, at age 33.
The range of emotions evident through our 20-minute conversation included surprise, disappointment, feeling disrespected, resignation and, finally, a sense of contentment and peace.
"I'm not mad," he said. "Because I have opportunities that don't involve beating my body up and getting paid for cheap, for lack of a better term. I'm pretty at peace.""Hence the suggestion of an olive branch of some sort. But it sounds like he has his post football life started.
Hard pass on Jeffcoat
Quote from: Blueforlife on June 17, 2024, 04:29:31 PMHard pass on Jeffcoat
Fair enough. I don't think any of us would have thought we'd lose Garbutt and Haba all before we finished the 2nd game.
They did have high hopes with Fayad, but he did miss most of TC. I expect he'll play but not sure if he is forced into starting or just a rotational guy.
I wonder long the other 2 will be unavailable ( more or less than 6 games ). At the very least we should be looking at others for the PR.
Is this a time for PR shopping? Do other teams have good AR DE/DT depth with a solid guy on the PR looking for a chance?
Are there any DE/DT's out there that refused PR spots, waiting for an opportunity like this? Are they on planes heading here / already here?
Now that the UFL season is over, any chance of recruiting those players? I don't think there are any reciprocal agreements between the leagues...
Quote from: theaardvark on June 17, 2024, 04:47:14 PMIs this a time for PR shopping? Do other teams have good AR DE/DT depth with a solid guy on the PR looking for a chance?
Are there any DE/DT's out there that refused PR spots, waiting for an opportunity like this? Are they on planes heading here / already here?
Now that the UFL season is over, any chance of recruiting those players? I don't think there are any reciprocal agreements between the leagues...
It's another catch 22. Players on other teams PR's are mostly rookies and if we try to snag one it means we have to activate him. We may very little scouting on any of them if they didn't see much pre season reps. Rough count of 13 DL on other teams PR.
There may be some that refused PR spots but that's what we'd be offering as well.
As far as I know the UFL doesn't have a deal with the CFl which would allow teams signing those players.
I mentioned a couple of our other TC cuts in Rivers and Upshaw. I don't know if they were found wanting or whether there was no PR room for them. I suppose that a couple of players could be facing out right release but probably not yet.
Regardless there are always others on neg lists or scouting lists.
Until this weeks' roster actually gets declared, it's not clear whether we have room on the PR to add players.
Fayad, Smith and Woods might all get added but if that happens are players heading to IR or PR?
Quote from: theaardvark on June 17, 2024, 04:23:38 PMAny player "passed over" in FA feels snubbed, I have no doubt. Whether it is Andrew Harris, Jeffcoat or even Bailey, there is no doubt a short term animosity, even if their logical mind understand, the emotional mind is hurt. IIRC there were some fairly strained communications when Jeffcoat wasn't brought back.
https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/not-mad-but-at-peace-bombers-jeffcoat-calls-it-a-career
"After hearing almost nothing from the Bombers this off-season, Jeffcoat on Friday told me he's retiring from football, at age 33.
The range of emotions evident through our 20-minute conversation included surprise, disappointment, feeling disrespected, resignation and, finally, a sense of contentment and peace.
"I'm not mad," he said. "Because I have opportunities that don't involve beating my body up and getting paid for cheap, for lack of a better term. I'm pretty at peace.""
Hence the suggestion of an olive branch of some sort. But it sounds like he has his post football life started.
I fear dumping Jeffcoat will hasten the demise of Willie, he has not impressed so far this season and may be a season or two away from the end of the line. A bookend doesn't function well without it's mate.
As for available DE's no objection to Rivers or Upshaw returning but I would give Cedric Wilcots a call as the ex-Bomber was recently cut by the Ti-Cats.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 17, 2024, 02:26:16 PMI wonder if there is any consideration bringing back Jeffcoat, even if it's for only a few games? That isn't something teams usually do but nothing says it can't be done. Short term rental per se.
There is precedent right in front of our faces: Denmark. We Jeffcoat'd him in FA and then brought him back to save our butt partway into the season. Don't remember the reason, but that would be exactly what we'd do with Jeffcoat.
I think Jeffcoat was staying in shape waiting for calls until his "retirement" announcement. So IMHO he's likely still in shape.
The only possible difference might be Denmark had a better attitude and parting than Jeffcoat did. But Jeffcoat might be able to get over it if we offer him his ask $ and say we're sorry "just business". That said, I've shifted my mindset now to focus on the O and any over-ELC $ we spend should be on the O side (5th R and OL).
Quote from: theaardvark on June 17, 2024, 04:47:14 PMIs this a time for PR shopping? Do other teams have good AR DE/DT depth with a solid guy on the PR looking for a chance?
Great idea! It's not just the couch sitters -- it's also the bench warmers that we can look at.
I'd start by looking at the PRs of teams that have a surfeit of whatever position we want to focus on (e.g. DE). 2nd/3rd year guys who have decent names sometimes do get pushed to PR when a team has just way too many at that position (like DLs in HAM).
Rose got hurt right away in Ottawa, figure anyone coming that has not been working out all winter is at risk of the same (Jeffcoat).
As far as the PRs of other teams, a trade perhaps? Teams always prefer a draft pick than eventually cutting a guy and getting nothing.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 17, 2024, 08:16:49 PMThere is precedent right in front of our faces: Denmark. We Jeffcoat'd him in FA and then brought him back to save our butt partway into the season. Don't remember the reason, but that would be exactly what we'd do with Jeffcoat.
I think Jeffcoat was staying in shape waiting for calls until his "retirement" announcement. So IMHO he's likely still in shape.
The only possible difference might be Denmark had a better attitude and parting than Jeffcoat did. But Jeffcoat might be able to get over it if we offer him his ask $ and say we're sorry "just business". That said, I've shifted my mindset now to focus on the O and any over-ELC $ we spend should be on the O side (5th R and OL).
It does not take long to fall out of game shape. First thing the big guys do is try to drop weight. Putting it back on properly is not quick or easy.
I have no doubt that Walters has made the call to him to gauge his interest. Skipping training camp is not always a bad thing, especially for the big guys. I remember when Obby got the call from Calgary, he was tickled that he hadn't had to go through TC but still got to cash full game cheques...
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 16, 2024, 12:03:00 AMWouldn't Masoli qualify? He's signed and clearly not going to play for months. Also, keep in mind there are probably at least a few "fake" 6GIR guys on unscrupulous teams.
Yes. Today their IR shows 4 players on their 6 game IR. I just added up what showed on CFL.CA yesterday and it's never accurate or up to day. Quite a few new players were injured over the weekend that may add to that total. Perhaps a few 1 game IR come off this week?
Either way, it's a big list. I don't know why teams would put players on 6 game IR. They can't practice so I'd have to think those are legit. Perhaps a few might come off early but then teams don't save any SMS.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 17, 2024, 08:16:49 PMThere is precedent right in front of our faces: Denmark. We Jeffcoat'd him in FA and then brought him back to save our butt partway into the season. Don't remember the reason, but that would be exactly what we'd do with Jeffcoat.
I think Jeffcoat was staying in shape waiting for calls until his "retirement" announcement. So IMHO he's likely still in shape.
The only possible difference might be Denmark had a better attitude and parting than Jeffcoat did. But Jeffcoat might be able to get over it if we offer him his ask $ and say we're sorry "just business". That said, I've shifted my mindset now to focus on the O and any over-ELC $ we spend should be on the O side (5th R and OL).
A good comparison but Denny didn't have the injury trouble Jeffcoat did.
As many know Denny is my guy, very happy you brought him up.
Quote from: Waffler on June 17, 2024, 08:53:17 PMRose got hurt right away in Ottawa, figure anyone coming that has not been working out all winter is at risk of the same (Jeffcoat).
Yes, true. However, if you don't give them any signing bonus at all, you have absolutely nothing to lose by signing these vets. If they drop like flies you rinse & repeat. You can do that ad inifinitum with no SMS hit if they all head to the 6GIR.
I still think a FA/PR vet can help us right now better than a 4th-stringer.
As of this moment, more than half the week 3 pickems are for BC. I can't recall the last time I saw that. Even with the homer blue goggles we have half the members with major reservations about our team, at home. Holy smokes.
And against a 1-1 BC team that hasn't looked nearly as good as 2023.
Moves need to be made. Something needs to be done.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 18, 2024, 07:44:18 AMAs of this moment, more than half the week 3 pickems are for BC. I can't recall the last time I saw that. Even with the homer blue goggles we have half the members with major reservations about our team, at home. Holy smokes.
And against a 1-1 BC team that hasn't looked nearly as good as 2023.
Moves need to be made. Something needs to be done.
I suggest we move you to the retirement list until you acquire a little more positive energy. Maybe an ice bath.
I'm all for " doing something " and I'm sure the organization is looking at options. We brought back some TC cuts that were injured earlier. I won't be surprised to see some additional signings to the PR this week.
Aside from that IMO it's falls on coaching and game strategy to be modified. There isn't a large pool of talent that can come in immediately and help the team.
Injuries have continued being a problem since late last year. Most are not even to the older veterans.
I see some transactions on CFL.CA with Hubert and Samson. Whether that will hold for game day, IDK. It's not like that will change much. Fayad, Woods and Smith could all be possible changes this week. Mostly forced changes due to injury so we'll see if they play well.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 18, 2024, 12:58:27 PMI suggest we move you to the retirement list until you acquire a little more positive energy. Maybe an ice bath.
All the outrage of the 29 year Grey Cup drought after an 0-2 start. It's a little tiresome.
I don't blame Tecno for his passion, he wants to win. The question is how to salvage the season. I think he's a believer in that and is looking for ways under every rock. Our days of domination appear to be over but we can still have a hot playoff, provided we get there and that starts with a win Friday. I hate the "must win" in June but I almost think it is.
Quote from: Waffler on June 18, 2024, 01:57:03 PMI don't blame Tecno for his passion, he wants to win. The question is how to salvage the season. I think he's a believer in that and is looking for ways under every rock. Our days of domination appear to be over but we can still have a hot playoff, provided we get there and that starts with a win Friday. I hate the "must win" in June but I almost think it is.
But the reality is we didn't become dominant by over reacting to every loss and making a ton of changes every week. Flaming out and signing 26 free agents might feel like we're doing something but it wouldn't be the right something.
We have a well run organization with good leaders and we'll be okay over the medium term. Just need to take some deep breaths and be okay with stillness sometimes.
The organization certainly has not fallen off the cliff as some would have us believe. Nor does 2 games indicate a trend when there have been the number of changes this team encountered in the past off season.
Two games into an 18 game season and some (emphasis on 'some') people are literally ready to throw in the towel. Come on!
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 18, 2024, 07:44:18 AMAs of this moment, more than half the week 3 pickems are for BC. I can't recall the last time I saw that. Even with the homer blue goggles we have half the members with major reservations about our team, at home. Holy smokes.
And against a 1-1 BC team that hasn't looked nearly as good as 2023.
Moves need to be made. Something needs to be done.
Its great that I can catch up in the standing sticking with my Bombers...
I don't see the D being a major issue so far. We are virtually tied in points given up with all other western teams after 2 games. It's our offence that is faltering and that was supposed to be our strongest area coming into the season. Injuries not helping, but either Zach still rusty or something else going on. Certainly timing has been very bad the first two games. The gamble to save players from injury in the pre-season is hurting the team now not getting live game timing + they are getting knicked up anyway....so that gamble has not paid off so far.
Quote from: ichabod_crane on June 18, 2024, 08:14:50 PMI don't see the D being a major issue so far. We are virtually tied in points given up with all other western teams after 2 games. It's our offence that is faltering and that was supposed to be our strongest area coming into the season. Injuries not helping, but either Zach still rusty or something else going on. Certainly timing has been very bad the first two games. The gamble to save players from injury in the pre-season is hurting the team now not getting live game timing + they are getting knicked up anyway....so that gamble has not paid off so far.
Yup. Injuries aside, I'm not worries about our D.
If our our would maintain some drives and score some points, this wouldn't be an issue at all.
That said, I still hate how we roster so few DL. It's completely nonsensical.
Quote from: Jesse on June 18, 2024, 08:45:13 PMYup. Injuries aside, I'm not worries about our D.
If our our would maintain some drives and score some points, this wouldn't be an issue at all.
That said, I still hate how we roster so few DL. It's completely nonsensical.
I agree, I would like to see an extra DL. Hubert, Fayad, are both DEs, Woods and Samson are DTs. The Canadian kid Hubert 6'4" 263, has the height and the motor, spends a lot of time with WJ5 at practice. The kid might be ready for his first start. Fayad seems to have some quickness, but is he in game shape.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 18, 2024, 12:58:27 PMAside from that IMO it's falls on coaching and game strategy to be modified. There isn't a large pool of talent that can come in immediately and help the team.
Injuries have continued being a problem since late last year. Most are not even to the older veterans.
But there
is a large enough pool of talent to bring in immediate relief. All you posters always surprise me with all of the options when someone mentions a position. Just look at the list of quality mid-level DL available right this second!
Who here wouldn't be excited as all heck to hear we signed Kongbo?! Dude even knows the WPG D scheme already! Those saying we keep going down the list of TC cuts instead... you seriously want that 5th stringer instead of Kongbo??
And like someone else mentioned, signings are occurring every week in many other teams. They aren't content with their 2nd stringers, so why are we with our 4th?
And it doesn't matter if the injuries are to the vets or the rookies/sophomores: the only thing that matters is the injuries are to our
starters. We are losing the guys we wanted to start -- the guys we thought were the best on our roster at the moment. It's a non sequitur the vet (or not) status of the injured players. If anything, it's worse to lose the non-vet starters to injury because then we are forced to walk down the TC-cut list. At least when a vet is injured we can bring in our
2nd best player...
Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 18, 2024, 02:09:41 PMBut the reality is we didn't become dominant by over reacting to every loss and making a ton of changes every week. Flaming out and signing 26 free agents might feel like we're doing something but it wouldn't be the right something.
But we
are making a ton of changes every week! It's just they are forced changes outside our control, and almost all of them are
downgrades!
Besides Biggie coming back in the line-up, every single change week 1 to 2 was a downgrade.
So some of us are suggesting we make an
upgrade change. Maybe just 1 to start. What's wrong with that? No one is suggesting a major upheaval or overhaul.
When the depth chart comes out for week 3 it's probably going to show 2-4 more downgrades, and if we're lucky, Nichols stays in and Brady comes back.
The team
as it was lost to basement-dweller and first-time-frachise-starter Dru's OTT in week 2, you think with more personnel losses we're going to be looking good to beat supposedly-going-to-the-GC BC?
Why not airlift 1 new vet hoggie? Or a vet 5th IMP WR? Or a vet DL? (Though I'm loathe to "waste" SMS on D now that I've had a change of heart, I want it all spent on O.)
Why is this seen as overreacting? How many more injuries do we take until we contemplate what every other team does instinctively -- sign what they need? And never forget... there's always the trade phone...
Quote from: ModAdmin on June 18, 2024, 03:44:07 PMTwo games into an 18 game season and some (emphasis on 'some') people are literally ready to throw in the towel. Come on!
The most vocal voices I see are doing the opposite of throwing in the towel. What I see is people asking for someone to just think about some (for us) "novel" ideas, like signing a new vet. Just some sort of action.
I think some of us are jaded watching KW for 2 seasons in a row fail to beef up the team in-season (especially late season) even when it was clear we had some major shortcomings. Did that cost us the last 2 cups? Maybe.
I proffer that we've never been in more need in the last 5 seasons than right now.
No towel-throwing. I'll be louder than all y'all on Friday and I'll probably pick WPG in pickems, unless somehow the Mafia manages to make the chart even uglier than my nightmares currently imagine.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 19, 2024, 02:33:41 AMThe most vocal voices I see are doing the opposite of throwing in the towel. What I see is people asking for someone to just think about some (for us) "novel" ideas, like signing a new vet. Just some sort of action.
I think some of us are jaded watching KW for 2 seasons in a row fail to beef up the team in-season (especially late season) even when it was clear we had some major shortcomings. Did that cost us the last 2 cups? Maybe.
I proffer that we've never been in more need in the last 5 seasons than right now.
No towel-throwing. I'll be louder than all y'all on Friday and I'll probably pick WPG in pickems, unless somehow the Mafia manages to make the chart even uglier than my nightmares currently imagine.
You do understand that we, largely speaking, are fans and it's the experts that are running the team right? We don't have access to the Bomber's negotiations with other players, what the scouts are currently looking at, the salary cap status, the extent of injuries, etc. etc.
And, a few posters have said we are not going anywhere this season. This, based on 2 early season losses. One poster has predicted and 3 - 15 season.
It's fun and part of fans' prerogative to comment, criticize and evaluate players and their performance but let's not act like we know more than the people who run the organization and play the game.
I'm not suggesting everyone here acts that way but clearly some do.
Quote from: ModAdmin on June 19, 2024, 06:21:37 AMYou do understand that we, largely speaking, are fans and it's the experts that are running the team right?
Sometimes we gotta wonder!! ;) ;) ;) We're
hoping what you speak is true!
Quote from: ModAdmin on June 19, 2024, 06:21:37 AMWe don't have access to the Bomber's negotiations with other players, what the scouts are currently looking at, the salary cap status, the extent of injuries, etc. etc.
Totally true. They might have called every couch-sitter in the league already! I hope they have. However, it all means nothing if new signings aren't announced... no one wants "hey we tried": we want results.
There's no mystery on the SMS cap... KW already told us in like March, and based on the fact he generally speaks truth, and the fact we didn't pick up a single non-ELC after that statement,
I believe him!
Hey, what about Whitehead...
People ask "who ya gonna sign this late?". Based only on the CFL FA24 list, here's almost everyone unsigned on that list by position we need. Yes, some/many have signed somewhere since the list was last updated. Some have "retired" (which can really mean nothing).
And some better players have been shed since signed, as teams look to shed cap as players fail to live up to their value. Those players are not on this list, feel free to make a list of shedded couch-sitters.
Oh ya, I'm not saying these players are any good or we should sign them, but it gives a starting point and proves there's still lots of talent to look at that just might be better than our next 10th stringer DL...
DL
Davis*
Laurent*
Jeffcoat*
Walker*
Christmas*
McClain
Moore
Leonard
Ross
WR
Ellingson*
Evans (shaq)*
Mariner*
Phillips*
Mayala*
Walker*
Williams (Duke)*
McCrae*
Brescacin
Hunchak
Petermann
Whitehead*
OL
Rice*
Steward*
Richards
Saxelid
Van Zeyl
Gray*
Campbell*
Thornton*
DB
Baltimore*
Kanneh*
Daniel
Darby
Clark
Jamerson
Richardson
Taylor (Nick)
Jones (Mike)*
I've put a * next to players I'd be eyeing if I was GM. Lots to choose from just from the FA list alone! There's so many good WR out there I have no idea why we are going to trust the next 10 weeks to <insert unknown name here>.
Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 19, 2024, 07:55:42 AMPeople ask "who ya gonna sign this late?". Based only on the CFL FA24 list, here's almost everyone unsigned on that list by position we need. Yes, some/many have signed somewhere since the list was last updated. Some have "retired" (which can really mean nothing).
And some better players have been shed since signed, as teams look to shed cap as players fail to live up to their value. Those players are not on this list, feel free to make a list of shedded couch-sitters.
Oh ya, I'm not saying these players are any good or we should sign them, but it gives a starting point and proves there's still lots of talent to look at that just might be better than our next 10th stringer DL...
DL
Davis*
Laurent*
Jeffcoat*
Walker*
Christmas*
McClain
Moore
Leonard
Ross
WR
Ellingson*
Evans (shaq)*
Mariner*
Phillips*
Mayala*
Walker*
Williams (Duke)*
McCrae*
Brescacin
Hunchak
Petermann
Whitehead*
OL
Rice*
Steward*
Richards
Saxelid
Van Zeyl
Gray*
Campbell*
Thornton*
DB
Baltimore*
Kanneh*
Daniel
Darby
Clark
Jamerson
Richardson
Taylor (Nick)
Jones (Mike)*
I've put a * next to players I'd be eyeing if I was GM. Lots to choose from just from the FA list alone! There's so many good WR out there I have no idea why we are going to trust the next 10 weeks to <insert unknown name here>.
It's a long list of retired, expensive and in some case with teams in the CFL. Mayala is with the Elks to name one.
I did expect the Bombers to be bringing in another couple of bodies this week. It may depend on who gets moved to IR to determine where there might be spots to put them ( PR ).
Christmas would fill a need . Oakman, Kongbo but that's not the Bombers MO.
Lemon, Sankey turned Montreal's season around. We don't make those moves anymore, bringing in FA's. Just over play in house nationals or globals and say they are just as good and starter material.
Puzzling.
Quote from: Road Griller on June 19, 2024, 04:37:40 PMChristmas would fill a need . Oakman, Kongbo but that's not the Bombers MO.
Lemon, Sankey turned Montreal's season around. We don't make those moves anymore, bringing in FA's. Just over play in house nationals or globals and say they are just as good and starter material.
Puzzling.
Yeah I wanted us to sign Sankey and Lemon but Sankey in particular. I don't know if we approached either and decided we didn't need either or both were above our SMS balance.
Since we were fined for over spending by $25K in 2023, that may have been an issue we couldn't adjust for.
Those 2 may have been the Als impetus on defence to screw us up in the Grey Cup. Hindsight is great but if they had been on our roster and not theirs, the outcome may have been different.
Kongbo has never been more than a rotational player and seemed to be a problem on 2 teams in 2024 and is now a free agent. He wanted some big money for a part time guy.
I'm not sure about Oakman. He had some injuries and might still be dealing with that. His SMS might not be a good fit.
Christmas is not a player I remember?
We did pick up Feltmate and Jones that I felt were good pick ups. Feltmate is on the AR and I won't be surprised if Jones gets added this week ( just a guess ).
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 19, 2024, 04:11:13 PMIt's a long list of retired, expensive and in some case with teams in the CFL. Mayala is with the Elks to name one.
I did expect the Bombers to be bringing in another couple of bodies this week. It may depend on who gets moved to IR to determine where there might be spots to put them ( PR ).
We are going to need a couple more DLs. I am not happy with O Wilson or Mitchell at this point. Whitehead might have been a better option at WR and KR.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 19, 2024, 07:28:20 PMYeah I wanted us to sign Sankey and Lemon but Sankey in particular. I don't know if we approached either and decided we didn't need either or both were above our SMS balance.
Since we were fined for over spending by $25K in 2023, that may have been an issue we couldn't adjust for.
Those 2 may have been the Als impetus on defence to screw us up in the Grey Cup. Hindsight is great but if they had been on our roster and not theirs, the outcome may have been different.
Kongbo has never been more than a rotational player and seemed to be a problem on 2 teams in 2024 and is now a free agent. He wanted some big money for a part time guy.
I'm not sure about Oakman. He had some injuries and might still be dealing with that. His SMS might not be a good fit.
Christmas is not a player I remember?
We did pick up Feltmate and Jones that I felt were good pick ups. Feltmate is on the AR and I won't be surprised if Jones gets added this week ( just a guess ).
Christmas is a big Stove like run stopper. Played well for Sask. around 3 seasons iirc.
Kongbo may take a haircut to come back and after this week 3 game cheques are gone.
We need rotation on the d-line. It's what made us successful. Now everyone does it but us. Another MOS mystery....
KL will be on the full 6 with his hand. Although he was probably paid a lot up front. That's the problem with bonuses, not much SMS relief when they are hurt.
Lucky would be better at returning, but then again so would the guy playing guitar on the sidewalk as you walk in.
Demarcus Christmas became a free agent in Feb 2024. He's a big guy and made a bunch of tackles. Not being signed anywhere does make you wonder why I suppose. I wonder if he had an injury or wanted too much?
He seems to be a good candidate but we never know what a player is thinking. Maybe he gave up on the football career. Any team could have looked to sign him as a free agent for TC.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 19, 2024, 10:14:35 PMDemarcus Christmas became a free agent in Feb 2024. He's a big guy and made a bunch of tackles. Not being signed anywhere does make you wonder why I suppose. I wonder if he had an injury or wanted too much?
He seems to be a good candidate but we never know what a player is thinking. Maybe he gave up on the football career. Any team could have looked to sign him as a free agent for TC.
could just be simply he's good enough to play but not good enough to supplant any other teams initial plans at DT. Could be a good fill in although i'd prefer to see investments at returner, defensive end or on the OL (Rice, specifically) instead, unless Woods can't do much.
Quote from: kkc60 on June 19, 2024, 10:17:14 PMcould just be simply he's good enough to play but not good enough to supplant any other teams initial plans at DT. Could be a good fill in although i'd prefer to see investments at returner, defensive end or on the OL (Rice, specifically) instead, unless Woods can't do much.
All of the above are possible. We don't know if Fox will come off the 6 game IR early, we don't know how Woods will do. I say we, the organization will know more.
However, getting a player in free agency in Feb would have been easy and let the best win out.
I think the team was high on Woods. Even if that's true we need another player for the PR.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 19, 2024, 10:14:35 PMDemarcus Christmas became a free agent in Feb 2024. He's a big guy and made a bunch of tackles. Not being signed anywhere does make you wonder why I suppose. I wonder if he had an injury or wanted too much?
He seems to be a good candidate but we never know what a player is thinking. Maybe he gave up on the football career. Any team could have looked to sign him as a free agent for TC.
I think he took a number of undisciplined penalties.
Quote from: Pigskin on June 19, 2024, 10:56:36 PMI think he took a number of undisciplined penalties.
I don't think he did. He was pretty disciplined iirc. I think it was a few other guys.
Quote from: Blue In BC on June 19, 2024, 10:22:40 PMAll of the above are possible. We don't know if Fox will come off the 6 game IR early, we don't know how Woods will do. I say we, the organization will know more.
However, getting a player in free agency in Feb would have been easy and let the best win out.
I think the team was high on Woods. Even if that's true we need another player for the PR.
I agree, definitely need at least one EDGE for the PR, and a DT too would be nice (assuming Samson and Woods make the AR)
Quote from: kkc60 on June 19, 2024, 10:17:14 PMcould just be simply he's good enough to play but not good enough to supplant any other teams initial plans at DT. Could be a good fill in although i'd prefer to see investments at returner, defensive end or on the OL (Rice, specifically) instead, unless Woods can't do much.
100% this. That is precisely the couch-sitter type we should be going after. Vets, can play as soon as they get here (see: Titus Wall dressing for MTL this week!), not as good as the stars so they often get cut, and are eminently affordable.
Christmas was making plays in SSK. He wasn't top-tier stuff, but certainly as good as half the DL we've dressed since IGF opened. I still would grab a DE before a DT, but we have a big need at both.
Quote from: Pigskin on June 19, 2024, 10:56:36 PMI think he took a number of undisciplined penalties.
I don't remember that at all. Maybe the odd O/S? It was more Marino that was the bad boy. IIRC he was more a quiet guy who just went about his business. Kind of like Peach. Perfect MOS locker room material.
On the coaches show someone called and asked about some training camp cuts, Rivers being one, and MOS replied "we are not there yet". Means to me that is where we will be getting bodies if the need arises.
Quote from: kkc60 on June 19, 2024, 10:17:14 PMcould just be simply he's good enough to play but not good enough to supplant any other teams initial plans at DT. Could be a good fill in although i'd prefer to see investments at returner, defensive end or on the OL (Rice, specifically) instead, unless Woods can't do much.
From what I recall Christmas was a huge player but not in a muscular way, he might be an effective plug DT but won't contribute much else, and I'd question his conditioning and stamina.
Woods showed in the preseason he was qualified to play, have absolutely no worries about what he can contribute. He's another DT, I think they need more help at DE.
Hubert would be an extra long-shot in my estimation, it's pretty rare that a Natl. DE coming out of CIS can help out first year, as we saw with Anthony Bennett last season.
Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 20, 2024, 03:52:39 PMFrom what I recall Christmas was a huge player but not in a muscular way, he might be an effective plug DT but won't contribute much else, and I'd question his conditioning and stamina.
Woods showed in the preseason he was qualified to play, have absolutely no worries about what he can contribute. He's another DT, I think they need more help at DE.
Hubert would be an extra long-shot in my estimation, it's pretty rare that a Natl. DE coming out of CIS can help out first year, as we saw with Anthony Bennett last season.
Hubert is going to be very interesting tomorrow. I'm sure his snaps will be tightly managed. Most of the front will probably be Fayad/An off-ball LB- Adams-Thomas-Jefferson
Quote from: kkc60 on June 20, 2024, 04:00:23 PMHubert is going to be very interesting tomorrow. I'm sure his snaps will be tightly managed. Most of the front will probably be Fayad/An off-ball LB- Adams-Thomas-Jefferson
Adam's playing DE with Woods listed as starting DT.
Quote from: kkc60 on June 20, 2024, 04:00:23 PMHubert is going to be very interesting tomorrow. I'm sure his snaps will be tightly managed. Most of the front will probably be Fayad/An off-ball LB- Adams-Thomas-Jefferson
I think we'll see a lot of Schmeck and deservedly so, he's been a pleasant surprise so far.
Quote from: Jesse on June 20, 2024, 04:03:27 PMAdam's playing DE with Woods listed as starting DT.
at 6'2, 290 against a very mobile QB, I hope not for too many snaps. Early on and running downs maybe.