Blue Bombers Forum

There was/is a lot of chatter about the OL.  Essentially 2 new pieces, including the all-important RT (the other being LG).  Ya, Dobson isn't "new", but he certainly is new to being the star/main starter instead of the 6th man.

So, after game 1, what do you think?

To Be Determined.

But based only on game 1?

Personally I could not make any assessment based on their first regular season game together.  Perhaps after 3 or 4 games.  But I could be right on the first game and wrong thereafter. Have at it but IMHO it is too soon for any comment other than the OL needs to see steady improvement.

Way too early imo
Sample size is insufficient

The new OL was quite weak on the run.  That's to be expected since Yoshi was often the road-grader or edge-sealer.  The proof is Brady mostly getting 2-4 yarders, when he usually gets 4-7.  I think he had just 2 decent 6+ runs, including that bigger one?  And that's against a MTL D that wasn't stuffing the box too much.

But they weren't hopeless on the run, so I'll give them that.

Lofton wasn't as bad as I feared.  We didn't suddenly look like SSK's 2023 OL.  So that's positive.

I can't say Dobson looked too much worse than Gray.  But for some reason Ko-man seemed to regress.  It may just be the C/LG duo is a critical thing and it's hard for them to gel.  We may be back to square one on the left side A/B gap problems, sigh.

Pass pro was very hit and miss.  In straightforward pass rushes they often did ok.  Zach did have up to 2.7s for many/most snaps.  Zach holding it past 3s when the OL is disintegrating is on him.

When MTL used stunts, the OL had a very bad time.  Simple stuff was confusing Dobson quite a bit.  Individual guys took turns getting beat by swim moves or side-stepping, especially Ko-man.

Big Stan was doing a pretty good job, as was Neufeld, though even he had a couple of mistakes with assignment.

My take is they did better than I would have predicted (which was a low bar), which equals out to slightly/moderately worse compared to 2023.  This is actually positive, as they can gel together over the following weeks and possibly be as good as 2023, as least in pass-pro (which Yoshi and Gray struggled with once in a while).

I'm not sure we'll ever be as good in the run game in 2024, however.  Brady's stats may reflect this come season's end.  I don't know why, but Lofton looks a heck of a lot smaller than Yoshi out there.

Did Wallace beat out Eli as the 6th man, or is Eli hurt?

Quote from: BomberFan73 on June 08, 2024, 12:30:44 PMDid Wallace beat out Eli as the 6th man, or is Eli hurt?

I was surprised to see him in as well

Quote from: BomberFan73 on June 08, 2024, 12:30:44 PMDid Wallace beat out Eli as the 6th man, or is Eli hurt?

No Eli also played, rather interesting they dressed Wallace as well.

To early to grade anything.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 08, 2024, 04:37:22 PMNo Eli also played, rather interesting they dressed Wallace as well.

He did?  I didn't notice.  So they dressed 7 OL?

Quote from: BomberFan73 on June 08, 2024, 05:54:01 PMHe did?  I didn't notice.  So they dressed 7 OL?

yep.

That's nothing new. We dressed 7 OL last year. Both Dobson and Eli were extra OL used in rotation etc etc.

I think if you're trying to reasonably assess the OL in order to truly understand their capabilities, you need to wait until after they have the opportunity to play with each other more than one time.

If you're insisting on an assessment now, after a terribly played game, which was the first time they've played gather, and first opportunity to play in front of Collaros and Oliveira, then you're not asking for an assessment, you're just looking for an opportunity to dump on them.

where did geoff grey go??

Quote from: dd on June 08, 2024, 11:32:49 PMwhere did geoff grey go??

Unsigned by any CFL team I believe. 

Quote from: Jesse on June 08, 2024, 09:39:46 PMIf you're insisting on an assessment now, after a terribly played game, which was the first time they've played gather, and first opportunity to play in front of Collaros and Oliveira, then you're not asking for an assessment, you're just looking for an opportunity to dump on them.

Not true, in my long post here I laid out many positives from the OL in week 1.  And I praised them for being above my expectations.

And it seems clear from the voting that most see them as "slightly worse", which is also very positive.  If after no PS games they can be just "slightly worse", that bodes well for the upcoming weeks.

From what I saw, they might be able to get as good as 2023, and while not ideal, it would be good enough to get to the GC again.

Quote from: ModAdmin on June 09, 2024, 01:55:00 AMUnsigned by any CFL team I believe. 

Wow, really??

Quote from: dd on June 09, 2024, 04:33:52 AMWow, really??

Wpg. media can't bother to check on him, but the assumption is he's focused on his engineering career in Wpg.

Based on too-early returns, the OL looked serviceable to me. Part of Brady's lack of production might be attributable to his complete lack of a training camp or any exhibition-game reps.

When I was watching Lofton, he didn't look terrible.

Zach had time to throw IMO, but was certainly showing the offseason rust. I don't think his poor showing had much (if anything) to do with the OL.

But - we've only seen 1/18th of the season. And hard to tell where Montreal's pass rush will rate.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 09, 2024, 03:39:32 PMWpg. media can't bother to check on him, but the assumption is he's focused on his engineering career in Wpg.

Wow, good on him then. In the big picture, he made the right call

Quote from: pdirks67 on June 09, 2024, 04:51:04 PMZach had time to throw IMO, but was certainly showing the offseason rust. I don't think his poor showing had much (if anything) to do with the OL.

Since 2021 or so, our OL has been steadily but slowly getting worse every year on pass-pro.  Yes, Zach usually gets the "magic" 2.7s, and there are very few complete busts and blowups.  BUT, he almost never gets >3s in a clean pocket: compare that to Cody who sometimes had 4, 5, 6s in the pocket.

It will be critical our OL doesn't keep up that year-on-year slippage.  It will be nice if we can even improve that time-buying on pass-pro.  That will help with the deeper and double-move routes.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on June 09, 2024, 03:39:32 PMWpg. media can't bother to check on him, but the assumption is he's focused on his engineering career in Wpg.

Possibly more money, regular hours and no bruises.  And, no needing to "keep the weight on", staying that big is not healthy long term.

Sure, if you are passionate to play, you stay as long as you can.  But players with other options often take them.  Especially if they've already been through a enough training camps.

Our O-line was bad to start the last two seasons, for those who don't remember.

Quote from: Jesse on June 08, 2024, 09:39:46 PMIf you're insisting on an assessment now, after a terribly played game, which was the first time they've played gather, and first opportunity to play in front of Collaros and Oliveira, then you're not asking for an assessment, you're just looking for an opportunity to dump on them.

There are quite a few people in the two forums who are quick to dump on the team, players, coach.....some of them seem to enjoy a loss, since it proves (to them at least) that O'Shea is not a good coach.

Strange.

Quote from: markf on June 10, 2024, 06:55:27 PMThere are quite a few people in the two forums who are quick to dump on the team, players, coach.....some of them seem to enjoy a loss, since it proves (to them at least) that O'Shea is not a good coach.

Strange.

Agreed. I'm sure nobody would want their boss kicking their can down the road after one brutal day at work! It happens to the best of us. If it was total negligence or brutal behaviour a stern warning for sure if not the boot if you crossed major lines I understand though. Chad Kelly would be thrown the book at him if he worked in government and their strict harassment policies of almost no tolerance. Sports teams and leagues seem to the slackest. Even private corporations have much tighter policies that most sports teams. The OLD DAYS of the boyz club rules (same with fraternities) need to end as it just stupid and ridiculous for Neanderthal behaviour anymore. 

Quote from: markf on June 10, 2024, 06:55:27 PMThere are quite a few people in the two forums who are quick to dump on the team, players, coach.....some of them seem to enjoy a loss, since it proves (to them at least) that O'Shea is not a good coach.

Strange.

Yeah, I've had to step away from the other forum for a while. Not getting anything of value from it right now.

Quote from: Jesse on June 11, 2024, 12:23:39 AMYeah, I've had to step away from the other forum for a while. Not getting anything of value from it right now.

Whats "the other forum"?  Ourbombers?  Or the CFL one?

I thought the O line did OK...the difference in the game was Collaros missing Lawler in the end zone and then the pass thrown behind schoen in the end zone that let gave the DB a chance to knock it down. If those 2 passes were thrown correctly, we win that ball game. Its Collaros that has to pickup his game, not the O line.

Quote from: BomberFan73 on June 11, 2024, 12:58:41 AMWhats "the other forum"?  Ourbombers?  Or the CFL one?

https://www.morningbigblue.com/community/

Too early....but I don't think they're as good on the run game which was their bread and butter the last 3-4 seasons.   Give them a few more games before we assess them.

Quote from: markf on June 10, 2024, 06:55:27 PMThere are quite a few people in the two forums who are quick to dump on the team, players, coach.....some of them seem to enjoy a loss, since it proves (to them at least) that O'Shea is not a good coach.

Well, I'm certainly not one of those!  I love MOS and think he's one of our best coaches ever, and strongly believe he'll get us another couple of cups.

But bringing up questions and points, and offering and looking for constructive criticism is not "dumping on the team".

In fact, I think the results of the poll here show that for the most part we are pretty happy with the OL unit and it will likely improve.  When I made the poll I would have guessed half would pick "a lot worse".  And the comments here have been generally upbeat.  With the massive OL changes the results could have been muuuuuch worse.

Hey, even MOS said the coaches (and thus the team) let us down.  Is that dumping?

Quote from: dd on June 11, 2024, 02:02:31 AMI thought the O line did OK...the difference in the game was Collaros missing Lawler in the end zone and then the pass thrown behind schoen in the end zone that let gave the DB a chance to knock it down. If those 2 passes were thrown correctly, we win that ball game. Its Collaros that has to pickup his game, not the O line.

I'd also say all those 2 and outs, especially early.  Did Zach even complete half his throws?  Ugh...

Oh ya, also that untimely horrendous turnover to start off MTL's scoring...

it's worth mentioning, the O line has lost all stars in previous years, and overcame it.

it seems likely that our O line coach is very good, and will have the line playing well, soon enough.

Quote from: markf on June 19, 2024, 06:41:30 PMit's worth mentioning, the O line has lost all stars in previous years, and overcame it.

it seems likely that our O line coach is very good, and will have the line playing well, soon enough.

It may just have been luck, but in all those previous years the new OL, the new piece/pieces, were stout and capable in week 1.  I remember clearly how scared we were of Goosen leaving, and in week 1 Couture was just as good.

In all those cases the new guy would step in and by week 2 we were all thinking "Goosen who?", "Speller who?", or "Chungh who?".

That's not the case this season.  In fact, I don't think it's been the case since Desjar left.  After that, no one said "Desjar who".  It was a major loss and we've never been as good.  Good, but not as good.

If our weaker OL guys are able to dev & improve, they need to do it pronto.  They are costing us games and laying waste to all the SMS$ spent on the league best R corps.  It's like Mike Reilly in BC redux.  We didn't learn from that?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 19, 2024, 11:35:26 PMIt may just have been luck, but in all those previous years the new OL, the new piece/pieces, were stout and capable in week 1.  I remember clearly how scared we were of Goosen leaving, and in week 1 Couture was just as good.

In all those cases the new guy would step in and by week 2 we were all thinking "Goosen who?", "Speller who?", or "Chungh who?".

That's not the case this season.  In fact, I don't think it's been the case since Desjar left.  After that, no one said "Desjar who".  It was a major loss and we've never been as good.  Good, but not as good.

If our weaker OL guys are able to dev & improve, they need to do it pronto.  They are costing us games and laying waste to all the SMS$ spent on the league best R corps.  It's like Mike Reilly in BC redux.  We didn't learn from that?

Speller, now that's a throwback. Completely forgot about him.

But I agree, somewhere along the way it seems either the coaching or the scouting of the OL fell off. Guys like Jamar McGloster, Jarrell Broxton and Dino Boyd also got their first chances here. Obviously at some point this team could scout OL. Guys like Gray and Dobson were viewed as solid prospects, both getting NFL shots and viewed as coups when drafted. Yet neither seemed to really take a leap although Dobson is still young and I think could be a great player (but in a contract year it's tough to know what they have there yet). Hopefully Wallace hits on his potential, or this current group doesn't get Collaros destroyed this season.

Center definitely needs to be addressed next offseason, Kolankowski is a 6th or 7th OL ideally.

Quote from: kkc60 on June 20, 2024, 12:31:18 AMBut I agree, somewhere along the way it seems either the coaching or the scouting of the OL fell off. Guys like Jamar McGloster, Jarrell Broxton and Dino Boyd also got their first chances here.

We had Broxton?!  I saw him playing the other night and thought "Holy bleep, this guy is a monster", he was like twice the size of the other hoggies!  I'm not sure I've ever seen anything like it!

McGloster is currently injured for MTL, but he'll likely be starting again when he's back.  How did we let that Yoshi replacement slip through our fingers while we kept trying to develop the dead ends like Ivey, and that other IMP OT that was here a few seasons that I've already forgotten?  That said, Lofton has been way better than expected so far!  So I'm not panicking about OT.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on June 20, 2024, 02:22:54 AMWe had Broxton?!  I saw him playing the other night and thought "Holy bleep, this guy is a monster", he was like twice the size of the other hoggies!  I'm not sure I've ever seen anything like it!

McGloster is currently injured for MTL, but he'll likely be starting again when he's back.  How did we let that Yoshi replacement slip through our fingers while we kept trying to develop the dead ends like Ivey, and that other IMP OT that was here a few seasons that I've already forgotten?  That said, Lofton has been way better than expected so far!  So I'm not panicking about OT.

Yes, but misleading.

We signed him in 2020 and when the season cancelled he was amongst a group of players who was able to void his contract. He never played here, never made it to Winnipeg. He wouldn't made it with the group we had in 2020 or 2021 (if you want to play the 'what if' game) and he's been in BC since 2021 (really becoming a player last year).

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on June 21, 2024, 12:55:14 PMYes, but misleading.

We signed him in 2020 and when the season cancelled he was amongst a group of players who was able to void his contract. He never played here, never made it to Winnipeg. He wouldn't made it with the group we had in 2020 or 2021 (if you want to play the 'what if' game) and he's been in BC since 2021 (really becoming a player last year).

My point is moreso starting OL have at different times passed through here (or at least been signed here) and yet at RT we have Lofton (who has played fine in pass pro, but is an older journeyman) and our interior line stinks.

Obviously there is also a difference between canadian and american OL and what positions they tend to play, it's just interesting that we have obviously found OL, just why not for ourselves?