Blue Bombers Forum

This....straight from the horses mouth, Kyle Walters

https://winnipegsun.com/sports/football/cfl/winnipeg-bluebombers/blue-bombers-in-holding-pattern-as-they-wait-on-contract-talks-with-oliveira-schoen

I understand it but we can't wait forever for either of these situations to be resolved. There are going to be limits on what we can and will pay for some of our players regardless of what happens  with these two stars.

Bailey, Woli, Hallett, Gauthier for example.

Brady needs to wake up and smell the roses and decide if he wants to stay with his hometown club or not.

How much can you make a Grey Cup bonus, and would that count against the cap? ;)

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 11, 2024, 01:41:10 PM
Brady needs to wake up and smell the roses and decide if he wants to stay with his hometown club or not.

Kinda of the way I feel......I really didn't see this coming as I was sold on the concept that he would bleed Blue and Gold for his entire career.  The math is pretty simple as Dalton will command more than an 100K raise in salary and Brady is hoping for the same IF he stays.    That's close to 200K which means some well paid vets won't be returning.
Did the MOP nomination go to his head a tad?    He did make a public statement about returning to the Bombers If it doesn't work out for him down south and IF the Bombers bring back the right pieces.    So there's that however those "right pieces" are waiting to fall into place only after he decides where he wants to be.   
Have either of Brady or Dalton been invited for workouts with any NFL clubs to date?     Is their window of time closing with their dreams of making it in the NFL?    I get that players have hopes and dreams of making the big payday in the NFL however at some point they need to understand reality.   How many NFL teams did Dalton workout with last season and NOT get an offer?    I'm thinking that won't change this year?

As Kyle Walters mentioned, at some point the Bombers hand will be forced if they let this process drag on much longer.....which as he stated sounded like a few weeks.   Until then we won't see much happening in terms of signing our pending free agents of which there are a considerable number.

Regardless of what happens as Techno stated, some tough decisions will be made and there may be other surprises we didn't see coming.

Oliveria needs to make his money right now. This contract. He's never going to have more leverage. He'll be 27 in August. He's coming off a career year. He's a running back. He's paid his dues. Whether or not he gets paid here or not is a bigger question. But he deserves it somewhere and he's going to get it. Good for him, wherever it is.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 11, 2024, 03:06:16 PM
Oliveria needs to make his money right now. This contract. He's never going to have more leverage. He'll be 27 in August. He's coming off a career year. He's a running back. He's paid his dues. Whether or not he gets paid here or not is a bigger question. But he deserves it somewhere and he's going to get it. Good for him, wherever it is.

Agreed. If maximizing money is his top priority, this is the time do it. How that plays out for him remains to be seen (see Kenny Lawler in 2022 FA) but all indications are he's banking on a significant raise.

The same argument could be made for Schoen.

The next month or so is going to be very interesting.

The one way Walters could speed this along is once they exhaust NFL options, and before FA hits, he can release them.  This allows other teams to make them offers, and he can counter, before the frenzy occurs.

I know there is a "tampering week" now, to do this kind of thing, but we could be out ahead of that, enter "tamper week" knowing our situation at RB and WR. 

Outside the box, sure, but if we feel confident in being able to be competitive signing them, or have resigned ourselves to not getting the back, this makes the FA shopping easier.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 11, 2024, 03:12:34 PM
Agreed. If maximizing money is his top priority, this is the time do it. How that plays out for him remains to be seen (see Kenny Lawler in 2022 FA) but all indications are he's banking on a significant raise.

The same argument could be made for Schoen.

The next month or so is going to be very interesting.

I think the problem some fans are having is with the bold. Most definitely he should be paid for his full value, bar none, but there's some disappointment that he's publicly implying that it's really just about the money for him. I want to think the Bombers are willing to pay the 'correct' price and have made that offer - and if we've lowballed him, he deserves more elsewhere - but if we have and he's waiting for a Chris Jones to make a ridiculous, out-of-market insanity offer to play for any team stupid enough to do that, that's a disappointing character moment. Even if that's what he thinks deep down, posting a money bag emoji on SM if kinda gross. A little like Evander Kane with the brick of money phone pic.

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 11, 2024, 06:51:16 PM
I think the problem some fans are having is with the bold. Most definitely he should be paid for his full value, bar none, but there's some disappointment that he's publicly implying that it's really just about the money for him. I want to think the Bombers are willing to pay the 'correct' price and have made that offer - and if we've lowballed him, he deserves more elsewhere - but if we have and he's waiting for a Chris Jones to make a ridiculous, out-of-market insanity offer to play for any team stupid enough to do that, that's a disappointing character moment. Even if that's what he thinks deep down, posting a money bag emoji on SM if kinda gross. A little like Evander Kane with the brick of money phone pic.

It's no different than any other CFL player who is a top FA and wants to get paid as much as possible in a business such as this. Fans are certainly entitled to feel how they want about Oliveira's words, actions, posts on social media, etc., but that reflects more on them than it does Oliveira, IMO. We aren't owed anything by a pending free agent. He's a professional athlete in a league that isn't renowned for its contracts, either in terms of remuneration or terms (no guaranteed money), so making the most of what's typically a small window is just putting his interests first. And that's okay.

His social media activity related to his pending FA isn't a good look, much in the same vein as his expressing NFL aspirations a while back. Not sure I'd question his character because of either thing, though. He's demonstrated his character time and again in real life, so include me among those willing to give him a pass for a questionable repost on social media with a moneybag emoji.

I can't even begin to understand the comparison to Evander Kane, BTW. It's completely baseless to me.

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 11, 2024, 06:51:16 PM
I think the problem some fans are having is with the bold. Most definitely he should be paid for his full value, bar none, but there's some disappointment that he's publicly implying that it's really just about the money for him. I want to think the Bombers are willing to pay the 'correct' price and have made that offer - and if we've lowballed him, he deserves more elsewhere - but if we have and he's waiting for a Chris Jones to make a ridiculous, out-of-market insanity offer to play for any team stupid enough to do that, that's a disappointing character moment. Even if that's what he thinks deep down, posting a money bag emoji on SM if kinda gross. A little like Evander Kane with the brick of money phone pic.

I don't think ANY fan begrudges him his ability to sign for his maximum return.  That's his decision.

How he does it, though, different story. "Where will I end up?" isn't necessary. It doesn't build his brand, it doesn't make other teams willing to pay him more, and it does upset some fans (myself included)

If he's trying to catch on in the NFL, great, all our best wishes are with him.  If he's looking to get a Lawler contract elsewhere, and play for a team that hurts his performance, but lines his pockets, that's his decision.  There will be GM's hoping to sign him and have him duplicate his 2023 year, but they are going to have to put a team around him like WPG did, and that will be hard, especially if they break the bank on him.

He's been a great Bomber, a great Winnipegger, and we'd hate to see him hurt that legacy by accident with actions that may actually hurt his final deal.    

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 11, 2024, 07:15:58 PM
It's no different than any other CFL player who is a top FA and wants to get paid as much as possible in a business such as this. Fans are certainly entitled to feel how they want about Oliveira's words, actions, posts on social media, etc., but that reflects more on them that it does Oliveira, IMO. We aren't owed anything by a pending free agent. He's a professional athlete in a league that isn't renowned for its contracts, either in terms of remuneration or terms (no guaranteed money), so making the most of what's typically a small window is just putting his interests first. And that's okay.

His social media activity related to his pending FA isn't a good look, much in the same vein as his expressing NFL aspirations a while back. Not sure I'd question his character because of either thing, though. He's demonstrated his character time and again in real life, so include me among those willing to give him a pass for a questionable repost on social media with a moneybag emoji.

I can't even begin to understand the comparison to Evander Kane, BTW. It's completely baseless to me.

They're both tasteless moves based around a stack of money.

No one is debating "what he owes us" or "what we owe him". It's purely about conduct and character. This misstep won't live in infamy, but it's a little disappointing.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 11, 2024, 07:15:58 PM
Fans are certainly entitled to feel how they want about Oliveira's words, actions, posts on social media, etc., but that reflects more on them that it does Oliveira, IMO.

lol?

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 11, 2024, 07:26:20 PM
They're both tasteless moves based around a stack of money.

No one is debating "what he owes us" or "what we owe him". It's purely about conduct and character.

Except one's an emoji and the other was an actual stack of money being used as a phone.

A pending FA trying to get his payday just isn't in the same galaxy as a player under contract who requested a trade every year he was here and had ego and character problems from the get go.

My dog you guys will get your panties in a twist over weird things. A top FA want the big bucks? Of course he does.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 11, 2024, 07:30:14 PM
Except one's an emoji and the other was an actual stack of money being used as a phone.

A pending FA trying to get his payday just isn't in the same galaxy as a player under contract who requested a trade every year he was here and had ego and character problems from the get go.

I said they're similar. That does not equal the same.

The difference in history of issues plays no part in the implications made. Actually, I expected it from Kane back then and that's why it's weird to see a similar drop by Brady.

Quote from: TBURGESS on January 11, 2024, 07:57:50 PM
My dog you guys will get your panties in a twist over weird things. A top FA want the big bucks? Of course he does.

No one's talking about that lmao

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 11, 2024, 08:03:05 PM
No one's talking about that lmao

That's exactly what you're talking about. Dude wants to be paid and deserves to be paid.

Quote from: TBURGESS on January 11, 2024, 08:05:24 PM
That's exactly what you're talking about. Dude wants to be paid and deserves to be paid.

Nope. Dude wants to be paid and deserves be paid and maybe expressed it publicly in a not so great way.

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 11, 2024, 08:07:00 PM
Nope. Dude wants to be paid and deserves be paid and maybe expressed it publicly in a not so great way.

^ this

His public moves have not need so well thought out. He could of just zipped it but nope.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 11, 2024, 03:06:16 PM
Oliveria needs to make his money right now. This contract. He's never going to have more leverage. He'll be 27 in August. He's coming off a career year. He's a running back. He's paid his dues. Whether or not he gets paid here or not is a bigger question. But he deserves it somewhere and he's going to get it. Good for him, wherever it is.

Why don't we just pay him what we were paying AH33 in 2021?

a) That would seem fair as they are basically the same puzzle piece.
b) That would seem affordable as we afforded it then.

So then the question isn't money, it's waiting for him to have the NFL laugh him out of the USA.  When does that usually happen by?  I really don't think any CFL team will pay him more than AH33-2021 money.  Why would they?  The IMP RB teams like their IMP RBs.  Many teams don't even care about the run (BC...).  The only other team that likes to be built around a star NAT RB is CGY, and I don't really see those tightwads paying more than we can.

So let's just assume BO20 will be back in B&G if he fails in the NFL.  Slot JA27 in as #1 RB in the meantime.  Set aside AH money ($220k?) for BO when he comes back.  McCrae can be RB #2 in the meantime, and the ratio can work because with Kramdi we've been starting 8 for no reason.

Or... if BO20 doesn't even want to give us some whisper assurances, let's make a play for Antwi, as someone else said a while back.  He's FA and may be much better than he's looked if he was playing behind our OL as the #1 RB in a run-first O.  Maybe we don't even need Brady.  You snooze you lose.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 11, 2024, 10:03:22 PM
Why don't we just pay him what we were paying AH33 in 2021?

a) That would seem fair as they are basically the same puzzle piece.
b) That would seem affordable as we afforded it then.

So then the question isn't money, it's waiting for him to have the NFL laugh him out of the USA.  When does that usually happen by?  I really don't think any CFL team will pay him more than AH33-2021 money.  Why would they?  The IMP RB teams like their IMP RBs.  Many teams don't even care about the run (BC...).  The only other team that likes to be built around a star NAT RB is CGY, and I don't really see those tightwads paying more than we can.

So let's just assume BO20 will be back in B&G if he fails in the NFL.  Slot JA27 in as #1 RB in the meantime.  Set aside AH money ($220k?) for BO when he comes back.  McCrae can be RB #2 in the meantime, and the ratio can work because with Kramdi we've been starting 8 for no reason.

Or... if BO20 doesn't even want to give us some whisper assurances, let's make a play for Antwi, as someone else said a while back.  He's FA and may be much better than he's looked if he was playing behind our OL as the #1 RB in a run-first O.  Maybe we don't even need Brady.  You snooze you lose.

Its not a case of what is reasonable, its a case of what is available.  Until FA, he has no idea what other GM's will pay.  Might it be more than what Harris got in 2021?  Might it be less?  Will someone make an offer that is high so that Walters will be forced to match, and not have $SMS for Shoen?

Too many variables. 

Quote from: theaardvark on January 11, 2024, 10:14:47 PM
Its not a case of what is reasonable, its a case of what is available.  Until FA, he has no idea what other GM's will pay.  Might it be more than what Harris got in 2021?  Might it be less?  Will someone make an offer that is high so that Walters will be forced to match, and not have $SMS for Shoen?

Too many variables. 

I think it's far simpler.  KW has a number in his mind, say $220, if we think BO20 is worth what AH33 was.  Maybe, just maybe, if there's high CFL demand for BO (doubt it), he could justify bumping to $240.  BO20 would have to take a small hometown discount.  If he doesn't out of loyalty / playoff money, then bye bye.

The thing that finally did AH33 in here was he lost the respect of the The Can Mafia.  BO20 is cool here as long as he doesn't do the same.

I really think the stumbling block is (only) the NFL time-wasting... because we can't do anything until that's sorted out.  But we can't wait that long to finalize the key piece of our roster.  Kind of like when we were waiting on Henoc and Kongbo... eventually time runs out and you have to make a decision without them.

For instance, how can we make a play on Antwi if we don't know where we stand with Brady?  No one would pick Antwi over Brady... but we may reach a point where we have to.

I don't understand why Brady can't be taking offers from all CFL teams right at this moment, sort out who he'd play for if he fails in the NFL, and make a verbal agreement.  He could say to KW "if I fail in the NFL then I will sign with WPG for $220".  Then we just wait it out.  We can roll for the first 6 games with Johnny and McCrae.

I think Walters has a number in mind for BO and will wait for the drama to play out, in the meantime, he'll sign Schoen and move to JA at runningback, who with his superior athletic ability, could have a whale of a season, and when BO is done chasing cars in the NFL, the interest and $$ or both may not be there. I don't blame him for trying, as now is the time, but really, he hasn't got a snowballs chance in hell of making it there so why rock the boat??

Also, our FA situation isn't as dire as this topic makes it sound... a quick glance at https://www.cfl.ca/fa24 shows that we're doing as well as any other team to date, and better than many others.

However, from memory, we aren't moving as fast as we have in prior years.  KW is usually the king of getting all his ducks in a row, pronto.  And based on experience, he tends to not hold up the whole operation for any player; at least not for too long.

Maybe putting this chatter out there is a bit of a hidden-in-plain-sight signal to Brady (and Dalton)...

P.S. As for Dalton.... Brady is the big name I'd expect to go the extra mile to retain...  Dalton is really "just another" IMP WR, and there's more where that came from.  IOW, Dalton = gravy.

Quote from: dd on January 11, 2024, 11:00:36 PM
I think Walters has a number in mind for BO and will wait for the drama to play out, in the meantime, he'll sign Schoen and move to JA at runningback, who with his superior athletic ability, could have a whale of a season, and when BO is done chasing cars in the NFL, the interest and $$ or both may not be there. I don't blame him for trying, as now is the time, but really, he hasn't got a snowballs chance in hell of making it there so why rock the boat??

the top paid rb in the league ly was stanback at 170.k 2nd was at 160 3rd was at 145k
Were likely looking at 180k for Olivera (which is a 66k increase)

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 11, 2024, 11:19:55 PM
Also, our FA situation isn't as dire as this topic makes it sound... a quick glance at https://www.cfl.ca/fa24 shows that we're doing as well as any other team to date, and better than many others.

However, from memory, we aren't moving as fast as we have in prior years.  KW is usually the king of getting all his ducks in a row, pronto.  And based on experience, he tends to not hold up the whole operation for any player; at least not for too long.

Maybe putting this chatter out there is a bit of a hidden-in-plain-sight signal to Brady (and Dalton)...

P.S. As for Dalton.... Brady is the big name I'd expect to go the extra mile to retain...  Dalton is really "just another" IMP WR, and there's more where that came from.  IOW, Dalton = gravy.

It feels like you haven't been following along with this, Techno.

Harris made 165k(ish) when he was here. That is the highest rate for a CFL running-back. Stanback made the same this year, as Pete points out above me.

If we could sign Brady for that, we wouldn't be talking about this, Walters would be running towards him right now with a contract ready. Brady has made comments that he wants to "reset the RB market". Likely meaning that he wants a contract comparable to the new Receiver salaries that are 300k+.

As for Brady's tweet. It absolutely rubbed me the wrong way. As blue_or_die pointed out, it gives the impression that money is his only motivating factor and he's not taking anything else into consideration. He easily could have phrased his response better.

Quote from: Jesse on January 12, 2024, 12:26:33 AM
It feels like you haven't been following along with this, Techno.

Harris made 165k(ish) when he was here. That is the highest rate for a CFL running-back. Stanback made the same this year, as Pete points out above me.

If we could sign Brady for that, we wouldn't be talking about this, Walters would be running towards him right now with a contract ready. Brady has made comments that he wants to "reset the RB market". Likely meaning that he wants a contract comparable to the new Receiver salaries that are 300k+.

As for Brady's tweet. It absolutely rubbed me the wrong way. As blue_or_die pointed out, it gives the impression that money is his only motivating factor and he's not taking anything else into consideration. He easily could have phrased his response better.

Precisely and hence my disappointment with Brady's modus operandi.....I don't see it happening.    I could see him possibly approaching the 200K mark.....but I believe 300K just isn't in the cards.    I hope Brady finds his way and I hope we can sign him for a what he'feels is fair compensation for his abilities.

I think Brady will get a new 3 year contract in the $200, $225 and $250 range.

And I believe it will be with the Bombers.

Quote from: Ridermania on January 12, 2024, 03:09:05 PM
I think Brady will get a new 3 year contract in the $200, $225 and $250 range.

And I believe it will be with the Bombers.

IMO that's too much. I'd think $180K as the top end in 2024. Even that may be more than we can afford depending on what our other players are looking for this season. What a player gets is not as simple as getting what they are worth but how the SMS is spent across the roster.

That said other teams have been known to out pay other teams to land a Canadian star player or even an import starter.

Ratio breaking RB will get more than Stanback, especially after he won MOC. 

I can't see him making $240, or even $220, RB just doesn't pay that high, too many available, and too likely to get injured, too fast a dropoff when they're done.

If he refuses $190 here, and takes $220 somewhere else, especially a non-contender, he's going to actually lose money and will not likely have anywhere near the career he'd have here, with this OC and this Oline.  But he'd have the appearance of another $30 in his pocket.

I don't know how much negotiating Walters does after his initial offer, and until the tampering week, BO20 can't field offers, so any discussion/speculation is just that.  If he wants to wait until then to make a decision, he might find his decision here made for him already, like he did to Andrew.  I'm not suggesting Augustine takes the #1 RB spot, but there's nothing stopping the WFC from going American at RB, in fact, it is probaby the cheaper and safer thing to do.  Love Brady, and want him to retire a Bomber, but we have Nat depth that allows Walters the flexibility to make that change.

If it means signing Dru or Shoen, I'm OK with business being business...

Quote from: theaardvark on January 12, 2024, 04:10:31 PM
Ratio breaking RB will get more than Stanback, especially after he won MOC. 

I can't see him making $240, or even $220, RB just doesn't pay that high, too many available, and too likely to get injured, too fast a dropoff when they're done.

If he refuses $190 here, and takes $220 somewhere else, especially a non-contender, he's going to actually lose money and will not likely have anywhere near the career he'd have here, with this OC and this Oline.  But he'd have the appearance of another $30 in his pocket.

I don't know how much negotiating Walters does after his initial offer, and until the tampering week, BO20 can't field offers, so any discussion/speculation is just that.  If he wants to wait until then to make a decision, he might find his decision here made for him already, like he did to Andrew.  I'm not suggesting Augustine takes the #1 RB spot, but there's nothing stopping the WFC from going American at RB, in fact, it is probaby the cheaper and safer thing to do.  Love Brady, and want him to retire a Bomber, but we have Nat depth that allows Walters the flexibility to make that change.

If it means signing Dru or Shoen, I'm OK with business being business...

The bigger question is how long or how seriously does Oliveria try to land an NFL offer of some sort. If he waits too long the money might need to be spent elsewhere. Walters has already mentioned the " delay " in re-signing others tied to Oliveria and Schoen.

What that timeline is, is not clear to us fans. Just a guess but by the end of next week?

The conversations the team has with the players might dictate when to move forward.

For example: If one or both players suggest they won't sign a deal in the CFL until June while exploring NFL options, then we need to move forward. Essentially the teams needs to understand their position taken.

If OTOH, they want to see what other offers are available in the open window the CBA allows other teams to make offers, that's something different.

That said, I don't think we can hold off that long and leave 25 other potential free agents hanging in the wind.

What did Toronto pay Harris last year and maybe they will be looking for Nat replacement

Quote from: Blue72 on January 12, 2024, 06:19:05 PM
What did Toronto pay Harris last year and maybe they will be looking for Nat replacement

2) Andrew Harris, Toronto Argonauts (N)

Hard money: $145,000
Maximum value: $160,000

https://3downnation.com/2023/04/18/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-running-back-and-fullbacks-for-the-2023-season/#google_vignette

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 12, 2024, 04:15:22 PM
The bigger question is how long or how seriously does Oliveria try to land an NFL offer of some sort. If he waits too long the money might need to be spent elsewhere. Walters has already mentioned the " delay " in re-signing others tied to Oliveria and Schoen.

What that timeline is, is not clear to us fans. Just a guess but by the end of next week?

The conversations the team has with the players might dictate when to move forward.

For example: If one or both players suggest they won't sign a deal in the CFL until June while exploring NFL options, then we need to move forward. Essentially the teams needs to understand their position taken.

If OTOH, they want to see what other offers are available in the open window the CBA allows other teams to make offers, that's something different.

That said, I don't think we can hold off that long and leave 25 other potential free agents hanging in the wind.

The question is, has BO20 had any interest from the NFL?  We haven't seen a tryout yet...

Quote from: theaardvark on January 12, 2024, 08:15:04 PM
The question is, has BO20 had any interest from the NFL?  We haven't seen a tryout yet...

He hasn't but that doesn't mean he hopes for one to happen. Look at the example of Tyrell Ford who spent the entire season waiting for another look.

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 12, 2024, 08:38:21 PM
He hasn't but that doesn't mean he hopes for one to happen. Look at the example of Tyrell Ford who spent the entire season waiting for another look.

Its one thing to have worked out for a number of clubs and then wait for an opportunity from that, its a complete different story when they aren't even letting you work out for them the first time.

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 12, 2024, 08:38:21 PM
He hasn't but that doesn't mean he hopes for one to happen. Look at the example of Tyrell Ford who spent the entire season waiting for another look.

Can't figure out what Ford is up to, can't find any evidence of him having another NFL tryout after the Patriots cut him Aug. 23.  Maybe he's waiting for his CFL contract to expire so he doesn't have to play in Wpg., sure seems like it.

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 12, 2024, 08:38:21 PM
He hasn't but that doesn't mean he hopes for one to happen. Look at the example of Tyrell Ford who spent the entire season waiting for another look.

Ford was signed a team and spent the remainder of the season after being cut waiting for an opportunity. He may have been told he was on the short list if an injury occurred.

It?s not the same situation as Brady, who has not been given an opportunity. I don?t believe the NFL is really on the forefront of Brady?s mind at this point.

I?m personally starting to think Brady has the intention of hitting FA unless we absolutely blow him away with an over the top offer - but that won?t happen.

Quote from: Jesse on January 12, 2024, 12:26:33 AM
It feels like you haven't been following along with this, Techno.

You would be correct... I'm behind on about half the threads, but not this one.  Sorry, I'll read the others and catch up soon.  Too busy being a dad at Christmas, and having to run off to Portland over new years.

Quote from: Jesse on January 12, 2024, 12:26:33 AM
Harris made 165k(ish) when he was here. That is the highest rate for a CFL running-back. Stanback made the same this year, as Pete points out above me.

I remember the whisper numbers for AH33's top earning years to be $200-$225.  Maybe he took restructuring / hometown discounts after that.  I think $165 as his top earnings here is way too low.

Quote from: Jesse on January 12, 2024, 12:26:33 AM
If we could sign Brady for that, we wouldn't be talking about this, Walters would be running towards him right now with a contract ready. Brady has made comments that he wants to "reset the RB market". Likely meaning that he wants a contract comparable to the new Receiver salaries that are 300k+.

Brady will be coming back down to earth real fast if he thinks a NAT RB is going to get $300.  No team will offer that.  The run game is as much the OL and blockers and OC as it is the RB.  If do-nothing AH33 is getting $160 for his time in TOR, however, surely Brady is worth around $200, which is what I said in the first place.  And I'm sure we can afford that.  If we'd rather pay $175, why mess around and lose Brady because another team will pay $200?  It's silly.  His best fit is here, so make it happen.

200k would be the absolute max, I would say acrtually 180k would be generous Kadeem Carey was at 137k ly, if we are unable to sign Olivera... Carey would. make a strong replacement.

Carey with our offensive line and blocking receivers and game plan would absolutely light up the league like no ones business. We d need to start a NAT somewhere else, but shows if BO signed elsewhere, life would go on and arguably be better

Quote from: dd on January 13, 2024, 01:44:15 AM
Carey with our offensive line and blocking receivers and game plan would absolutely light up the league like no ones business. We d need to start a NAT somewhere else, but shows if BO signed elsewhere, life would go on and arguably be better

We don't need to.  Kramdi already makes 8.  The 8th can be a VET IMP FAKENAT, so we have total flexibility regarding starting a NAT RB or not.

However, Carey is not the answer IMHO.  He's washed up.  Hasn't done squat in 2 seasons.  Sure, he'd be better in WPG, but IMHO he'd be far worse than BO20.

I really can't see us moving away from the NAT RB paradigm, I just can't.  It's just part of who we are.  If really pressed, out of every IMP RB out there, my pick would be Brown (EDM).  If we can't have BO20, I'd rather make a move for other NAT RB's out there over an IMP.  Antwi, STE, whoever.  They'd all look better here than they did on their run-last teams.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 13, 2024, 12:03:34 AM
You would be correct... I'm behind on about half the threads, but not this one.  Sorry, I'll read the others and catch up soon.  Too busy being a dad at Christmas, and having to run off to Portland over new years.

I remember the whisper numbers for AH33's top earning years to be $200-$225.  Maybe he took restructuring / hometown discounts after that.  I think $165 as his top earnings here is way too low.

Brady will be coming back down to earth real fast if he thinks a NAT RB is going to get $300.  No team will offer that.  The run game is as much the OL and blockers and OC as it is the RB.  If do-nothing AH33 is getting $160 for his time in TOR, however, surely Brady is worth around $200, which is what I said in the first place.  And I'm sure we can afford that.  If we'd rather pay $175, why mess around and lose Brady because another team will pay $200?  It's silly.  His best fit is here, so make it happen.

I don't think any other team will even offer him $200k, because they can always find better places to spend cap dollars than on a Natl. RB, such as the O-line, an upper tier receiver or even a backup QB.  It doesn't make economic sense to spend cap $$'s needlessly when they can find a younger version of William Stanback who will happily play for $85k. Bombers can make the same decision if they're forced to, but they would probably prefer to retain him for fit and marketability.  Every broadcaster and fan in the CFL associates him with the Bomber brand.

I'm still thinking that Brady's nomination for Winnipegs MOP and then becoming the West's MOP candidate may have influenced his thinking.   And I get that however it's not grounded in reality when it comes to his chances of landing a spot down in the NFL or making 300K in the CFL.    I mean Zach makes what upwards of 600K and Brady made what 120K last season?   Being chosen by the team as its MOP candidates over the highest paid Bomber had to have some influence on his mindset, methinks?    How could it not have??

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 13, 2024, 12:03:34 AM
You would be correct... I'm behind on about half the threads, but not this one.  Sorry, I'll read the others and catch up soon.  Too busy being a dad at Christmas, and having to run off to Portland over new years.

I remember the whisper numbers for AH33's top earning years to be $200-$225.  Maybe he took restructuring / hometown discounts after that.  I think $165 as his top earnings here is way too low.

Brady will be coming back down to earth real fast if he thinks a NAT RB is going to get $300.  No team will offer that.  The run game is as much the OL and blockers and OC as it is the RB.  If do-nothing AH33 is getting $160 for his time in TOR, however, surely Brady is worth around $200, which is what I said in the first place.  And I'm sure we can afford that.  If we'd rather pay $175, why mess around and lose Brady because another team will pay $200?  It's silly.  His best fit is here, so make it happen.

I agree that Brady is not going to be able to reset the market. I've always said that we are the team that values him the highest and would pay him the most.

The simple fact of the matter is some GMs don't like the idea of a Canadian RB. I think it's going to suppress his market. And he may have earned the top RB salary in the league, but that's not even close to 200k. And knowing we can sign rando American RB for 70k, I'm not sure doubling our budget at the RB position is the best use of resources. There's definitely a point where the coast/benefit doesn't make sense anymore.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 12, 2024, 08:44:52 PM
Its one thing to have worked out for a number of clubs and then wait for an opportunity from that, its a complete different story when they aren't even letting you work out for them the first time.

I understand that difference. The point is that there is no way to tell how long a player will hold onto that dream. Obviously getting an offer to attend an NFL TC is a stronger position. However getting cut and not even making a PR doesn't scream out to " wait it out " either.

Most GM's will know that any players success is dependent on the team around them, and that individual talent aside, they aren't guaranteed the same success from a player that they had here, especially on offence, with our Oline and MOP QB.  Now, the Oline and QB might look better than they are because of the RB and WR, and any WR might look better because of teh other WR and RB taking the heat off them.

They don't pay for players in a vaccuum.  At least they shouldn't.  But we know some will, and that's always a risk in us not breaking the bank for key players.

We seem to have no issues filling holes, however, and our scouts are likely going to have a tougher job than ever finding prospects.  But having them back as a group should mean they can use the pipe they've filled.  And we will see csome of those PR players this spring, and more.

I can see Montreal throwing big money at Dalton to replace Austin Mack.

Quote from: Ridermania on January 15, 2024, 02:21:55 PM
I can Montreal throwing money at Dalton to replace Austin Mack.

I imagine several teams will be willing to throw money at a top FA like Schoen, similar to what happened with Lawler after the 2021 season.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 15, 2024, 03:09:38 PM
I imagine several teams will be willing to throw money at a top FA like Schoen, similar to what happened with Lawler after the 2021 season.

Yup - it?s a top receiver. He will probably have offers from every team.

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 03:23:51 PM
Yup - it?s a top receiver. He will probably have offers from every team.

He's a top # 2 receiver since he doesn't have that great deep ball speed. He won't get Lawler or Lewis money but he'll certainly get good offers. IMO he tops out at $200K unless some team just goes nuts with their SMS and have extra room.

I also think some higher paid receivers might be asked to take a cut.

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 03:23:51 PM
Yup - it?s a top receiver. He will probably have offers from every team.

I think most teams will drop out when the bidding gets to $200k+, only a few teams believe top end receivers are worth that much.

Gonna disagree with you guys on this one - I think bidding starts at 200k these days.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 15, 2024, 03:55:25 PM
I think most teams will drop out when the bidding gets to $200k+, only a few teams believe top end receivers are worth that much.

As I've said in the past it's a 1st come 1st serve issue as SMS is spent.  Those that wait may find teams interested no longer have that SMS space available. Now Schoen could be signed in the first few hours of free agency. If he holds out for a week, some teams may no longer have that capacity.

Bombers are in a difficult position with so many high cost players including Oliveria. It's been mentioned we may lose one or the other due to SMS issues and high offers elsewhere.

I'll be a bit surprised if either sees any true NFL offers.

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 03:58:09 PM
Gonna disagree with you guys on this one - I think bidding starts at 200k these days.

I don't disagree that will be the case with Schoen, but don't see many teams willing to pay his price.  Ottawa is somewhat lacking in high end receivers, could see Schoen tagging along if they sign Brown.  Maybe the new owner in Mtl. wants to replace Austin Mack with another big name, don't see BC, Cgy, Edm. or the Argos being that interested.

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 03:58:09 PM
Gonna disagree with you guys on this one - I think bidding starts at 200k these days.

There is also a supply and demand in play here. Only 9 teams and not every team needs a very good receiver. OTOH, there are several good receivers that are potential free agents. The original list by position or potential free agents included 40 receivers. Some of them are top receivers. So which move and require replacements on which teams.

That said, Schoen was less than 50 more yards from being the leading receiver in the CFL. So it could be debated he is a # 1 receiver. However, a team like the Bombers with a balanced attack, top QB and RB create more opportunities for other players. That's not a given with every team.

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 15, 2024, 04:07:49 PM
There is also a supply and demand in play here. Only 9 teams and not every team needs a very good receiver. OTOH, there are several good receivers that are potential free agents. The original list by position or potential free agents included 40 receivers. Some of them are top receivers. So which move and require replacements on which teams.

That said, Schoen was less than 50 more yards from being the leading receiver in the CFL. So it could be debated he is a # 1 receiver. However, a team like the Bombers with a balanced attack, top QB and RB create more opportunities for other players. That's not a given with every team.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 15, 2024, 04:06:34 PM
I don't disagree that will be the case with Schoen, but don't see many teams willing to pay his price.  Ottawa is somewhat lacking in high end receivers, could see Schoen tagging along if they sign Brown.  Maybe the new owner in Mtl. wants to replace Austin Mack with another big name, don't see BC, Cgy, Edm. or the Argos being that interested.

In terms of not every team being interested, I think more teams will than wont. Calgary tends not to over spend in FA. Edmonton has Geno, so same position as us with Kenny. As far as I'm concerned, every other team is in serious play.

Schoen's production over the last 2 years dwarfs every other receiver. You can make the argument that it's due to the Bombers balanced attack, but that's immediately countered with, how high is his ceiling when he's featured without sharing the load with Brady, Kenny, Nic, etc?

Realistically, Schoen is very likely going to be $300,000 or thereabouts. We can fit him if we want - it's just the opportunity cost. I would sign Schoen and release Bighill to make it work but that's just me.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 15, 2024, 05:14:57 PM
Realistically, Schoen is very likely going to be $300,000 or thereabouts. We can fit him if we want - it's just the opportunity cost. I would sign Schoen and release Bighill to make it work but that's just me.

Pretty sure they aren't letting him go as he was having a good season up until his injury.....I believe he has another year on his renegotiated contract from last season.    I was hoping he would retire after winning a Cup.....however that wasn't in the cards.    He'd be good coaching material after he retired....

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 04:45:45 PM
In terms of not every team being interested, I think more teams will than wont. Calgary tends not to over spend in FA. Edmonton has Geno, so same position as us with Kenny. As far as I'm concerned, every other team is in serious play.

The Argos just re-signed their top receiver DaVaris Daniels for around $200k, they also pay Kurleigh Gittens $200k which are fairly sensible numbers, don't think they'll have extra money for Schoen after they pay Chad Kelly.

SMS cap - 5.5million.  Roster 53 men.  So, average about $100k per player (a little less, really, when you take into account AR and PR costs).

QB at $500k?  That means 11 players at league min to afford that.  $600k?  14 players.

For every player you sign for $300k, you need 5 players at league min.

For every player at $135K, you need one at league min.

So, if you have a $600k QB, a $300k WR, 4 $150k linemen (O and D), you now need fully half your roster at min salary. The other 21 you can play with averaging $100k each...

Its not impossible, but as each player comes off an ELC and deserves any kind of raise, it gets harder.  We have to have a certain number of Nats, which actually helps this, as many in suporting/ST roles are able to play for less, and many are willing to play for less, even after their ELC's.  

There are not a lot of teams that can afford $300k for a player, or even $200k.   Getting value out of your top players is very, very important.  And, when you factor in post season money, that can he a huge incentive for players to sign with a consistent playoff contender, for many players, the GC winner bonus is like getting a 50% raise.

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 15, 2024, 05:23:39 PM
Pretty sure they aren't letting him go as he was having a good season up until his injury.....I believe he has another year on his renegotiated contract from last season.    I was hoping he would retire after winning a Cup.....however that wasn't in the cards.    He'd be good coaching material after he retired....

Bighill is on a team friendly contract, and I'm not sure if coaching is in his future, he has a fairly good non football career already started.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2024, 05:46:27 PM
Bighill is on a team friendly contract, and I'm not sure if coaching is in his future, he has a fairly good non football career already started.

He made $165,000 last year which made him the third highest paid linebacker in the CFL. I'd hate to see what your version of "not team friendly" looks like.

I doubt it happens any time soon - if ever - but I'd sincerely look forward to the day CFL contract details of all players are made public.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2024, 05:46:27 PM
Bighill is on a team friendly contract, and I'm not sure if coaching is in his future, he has a fairly good non football career already started.

Pretty sure he has guaranteed money THIS year if he plays or not. I think I read 100k a while ago.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 15, 2024, 05:48:45 PM
He made $165,000 last year which made him the third highest paid linebacker in the CFL. I'd hate to see what your version of "not team friendly" looks like.

It's not "team-friendly" at this point in his career, but LBs also don't make QB?WR money, so it's not really hurting either.

You cut Bighill and bring in a rookie, you're saving less than 100k. It's not enough to sign Schoen (assuming these 1=1 mental exercises you guys do mean anything).

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 06:31:39 PM
It's not "team-friendly" at this point in his career, but LBs also don't make QB?WR money, so it's not really hurting either.

You cut Bighill and bring in a rookie, you're saving less than 100k. It's not enough to sign Schoen (assuming these 1=1 mental exercises you guys do mean anything).

You're saving $95,000. Schoen likely made the league minimum of $70,000 last year so you're now at $165,000. It's not a 1:1 but those are the types of decisions you have to make if you want to keep him. Stanley Bryant made $190,000. He's probably worth that but on the other hand you could save another ~$120,000 if you replace him you're at $285,000 which is certainly realistic. 

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 15, 2024, 06:54:06 PM
You're saving $95,000. Schoen likely made the league minimum of $70,000 last year so you're now at $165,000. It's not a 1:1 but those are the types of decisions you have to make if you want to keep him. Stanley Bryant made $190,000. He's probably worth that but on the other hand you could save another ~$120,000 if you replace him you're at $285,000 which is certainly realistic. 

I'd rather keep Bryant than replace him with a rookie, lol.

It's possible Bryant eventual retirement costs us money if we go out and sign a top free agent to replace him.

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 07:08:17 PM
I'd rather keep Bryant than replace him with a rookie, lol.

It's possible Bryant eventual retirement costs us money if we go out and sign a top free agent to replace him.

I'm hoping they can pay Bryant less this year and spell him with Dru Richmond to work him into the mix, he's been hanging around 4 years on the PR waiting for his opportunity.  But I wouldn't be surprised if your prediction comes true and they just kept Richmond around as an emergency replacement.  Another plan would be moving Gray to OG and backfill with Dobson, further reducing the need for a Natl. RB.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 15, 2024, 07:21:10 PM
I'm hoping they can pay Bryant less this year and spell him with Dru Richmond to work him into the mix, he's been hanging around 4 years on the PR waiting for his opportunity.  But I wouldn't be surprised if your prediction comes true and they just kept Richmond around as an emergency replacement.  Another plan would be moving Gray to OG and backfill with Dobson, further reducing the need for a Natl. RB.

Not sure Gray can play OT, or he would have already.  In a pinch, game time injury, he might be your guy, but not full time.

If Richmond could replace Bryant, I think we'd do it.  But Oline don't "spell" or rotate in... and American OT's don't often make the AR unless they are starting.

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 07:08:17 PM
I'd rather keep Bryant than replace him with a rookie, lol.

It's possible Bryant eventual retirement costs us money if we go out and sign a top free agent to replace him.

You're possibly right but these are the types of tradeoffs you need to consider if you're trying to add another big contract in Schoen. You've got someone like Bighill who will be 36, Stanley Bryant who will be 38 and Schoen who will be 28.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2024, 07:23:38 PM
Not sure Gray can play OT, or he would have already.  In a pinch, game time injury, he might be your guy, but not full time.

If Richmond could replace Bryant, I think we'd do it.  But Oline don't "spell" or rotate in... and American OT's don't often make the AR unless they are starting.

Gray has filled in for Bryant multiple games and never given up a sack in those games. It's an option they could consider.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 15, 2024, 08:22:49 PM
Gray has filled in for Bryant multiple games and never given up a sack in those games. It's an option they could consider.

So, you think he can play at the level of a consistent all star, on a regular basis, with other teams game planning against him?   Not giving up a sack filling in is different than not giving up a sack starting.

We definitely have enough interior NAT talent to spare Gray if he can play OT, and that ratio advantage make BO20 and Woli/Orange a little more redundant in case we lose any of them.

When he first came here, i thought that was the plan for him, not sure whether it was the talent aspect, or just not being able to supplant Bryant/Hardrick.  Now might be his time.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2024, 09:07:28 PM
So, you think he can play at the level of a consistent all star, on a regular basis, with other teams game planning against him?   Not giving up a sack filling in is different than not giving up a sack starting.

We definitely have enough interior NAT talent to spare Gray if he can play OT, and that ratio advantage make BO22 and Woli/Orange a little more redundant in case we lose any of them.

When he first came here, i thought that was the plan for him, not sure whether it was the talent aspect, or just not being able to supplant Bryant/Hardrick.  Now might be his time.

BO20.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 15, 2024, 08:22:49 PM
Gray has filled in for Bryant multiple games and never given up a sack in those games. It's an option they could consider.

Didn't Gray play OT for the Bison's.

Quote from: Pigskin on January 15, 2024, 11:06:46 PM

Didn't Gray play OT for the Bison's.

I think so. And Gray is a big dude, so for CIS standards, he'd dominate, same can be said for Landon Rice, another U of M O lineman, both were tackles for the Bison. But in the CFL, not a chance either dominates, but both are doing decent at tackle, not outstanding, but decent. Not a chance they move Gray to OT over Hardrick or Bryant, he'd get eaten alive

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 15, 2024, 08:22:49 PM
Gray has filled in for Bryant multiple games and never given up a sack in those games. It's an option they could consider.

In 2023 I think the only OT moves were Neufeld filling in for Yoshi when injured?  Going from memory.  I don't recall Gray doing any left OT... though there could have been a couple of snaps here and there.  I don't he ever started at LT.

Neufeld actually did a pretty good job, and I remember being surprised we put him at OT instead of Gray.  No one has ever really pegged Neufeld for a OT.  But I think we were all relieve when Yoshi came back.

Quote from: dd on January 15, 2024, 11:45:49 PM
I think so. And Gray is a big dude, so for CIS standards, he'd dominate, same can be said for Landon Rice, another U of M O lineman, both were tackles for the Bison. But in the CFL, not a chance either dominates, but both are doing decent at tackle, not outstanding, but decent. Not a chance they move Gray to OT over Hardrick or Bryant, he'd get eaten alive

MTL was starting 4 NAT OL for most of the season (and last?)... Rice as the 4th at RT.  I noted it at the time, especially since I'm a friend of a friend of (MB boy) Rice.  But if you look at when MTL went 3 NAT OL around 2/3rds through the season, putting our ex-Bomber McGloster at RT and benching Rice, that's precisely when MTL went from .500 to their 8 game win streak... Coincidence?

4 NAT OL is a very, very hard thing to pull off in the CFL whilst being a top team.  How many great teams can you think of that won it all with 4?  The last time WPG did it was when Walby was around.

As for Rice, I think the experiment of him at OT is done.  He'll be a backup to OT, maybe play some OG, and otherwise be a 6th OL like Dobson/Eli.  He may be close to hanging up the cleats (inside info here).  He's had a very good run for a MB boy and now has his name on the cup forever.  (Though he did blow the 2nd shot at the TD in our GC goal line stand.)

Milt Stegall
@MiltStegallTSN
Is @dschoen5 #DaltonSchoen on his way to the @REDBLACKS????? @CFLonTSN @cfl
#PaperPlates

Quote from: ModAdmin on January 19, 2024, 02:45:16 AMMilt Stegall
@MiltStegallTSN
Is @dschoen5 #DaltonSchoen on his way to the @REDBLACKS????? @CFLonTSN @cfl
#PaperPlates

That would mean OTT is opening up the Coffers.  $230?  Surely they can't go higher.  Then again, they have like no high-paid players, so maybe they can pull a C.Jones and overpay for a WR.  I think this would be a very smart move by OTT.

If Schoen does have to go somewhere else, I'd be happy it's OTT, as there he can't do any damage to us.  They'll still be an iffy team, even with Dru.  We'll only face them twice: both in the first few weeks when OTT will be all discombobulated with massive player turnover and zero continuity.  The chance of us facing them in the GC will basically be zero.  After losing it up in OTT for 1-2 seasons, we can pull a Kenny and woo him back  ;D  ;D

Losing Schoen after discovering him and giving him a crack would be a massive disappointment to me. This would a rather large loss.
A real bummer if he leaves. :'(

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 19, 2024, 02:49:13 PMLosing Schoen after discovering him and giving him a crack would be a massive disappointment to me. This would a rather large loss.
A real bummer if he leaves. :'(

Super bummer.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 19, 2024, 04:46:10 AMThat would mean OTT is opening up the Coffers.  $230?  Surely they can't go higher.  Then again, they have like no high-paid players, so maybe they can pull a C.Jones and overpay for a WR.  I think this would be a very smart move by OTT.

If Schoen does have to go somewhere else, I'd be happy it's OTT, as there he can't do any damage to us.  They'll still be an iffy team, even with Dru.  We'll only face them twice: both in the first few weeks when OTT will be all discombobulated with massive player turnover and zero continuity.  The chance of us facing them in the GC will basically be zero.  After losing it up in OTT for 1-2 seasons, we can pull a Kenny and woo him back  ;D  ;D

Cant see this with them signing Rhymes and ackie, unless they release Desjarlais and his 250k salary

I had mentioned previously that today would be somewhat of a tipping point in beginning of re-signing our free agents. Obviously just an opinion on my part as time to move forward.

The team must have some perception of whether we have any chance of signing Oliveria or Schoen. Neither seem to be getting any NFL looks but both might want to test free agency. Regardless, the Bombers have probably made offers to both and now it's in their hands.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 19, 2024, 02:49:13 PMLosing Schoen after discovering him and giving him a crack would be a massive disappointment to me. This would a rather large loss.
A real bummer if he leaves. :'(

Bummer today?  Yes.

We've had 2 exceptional years of his play for peanuts.  We've been able to afford to sign guys like Lawler because Schoen was on an ELC.  And were we not is such a place where we already have so many players that we developed and have to pay market price for now, we wouldn't have choices to make like this.

I'd love for Schoen to be a bomber for life.  He's that kind of player.  And he makes other players better around him, including Collaros.  His scramble rules routes are second to none, which we really need for Zach to be effective. 

We lose FA's every year, to other teams who overpay them, or even to the NFL.  And we replace them almost all the time with guys almost as good for a fraction the cost. 

Chungh, Couture, Lucky, Sayles, Stove to BC alone... all guys we drafted/developed and lost to a higher bidder.  And replaced them.

I have faith in our scouts.  We don't know if the next Dru Brown or Dalton Schoen is already on our roster, but we will find out soon enough.  Its a business, and you are going to lose FA's when you are one of the top teams in the league. 

That's how you become a top team in the league, with success out of your draft picks and recruits while you have them on ELC's.  If every player on your roster was paid market price, you'd have a mediocre team.  An "average" team.  Its when your team outplays your payroll that you have an advantage.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 19, 2024, 04:05:57 PMThat's how you become a top team in the league, with success out of your draft picks and recruits while you have them on ELC's.  If every player on your roster was paid market price, you'd have a mediocre team.  An "average" team.  Its when your team outplays your payroll that you have an advantage.

See Mack/Snead/Speiker/Ento/Dubois/Stubblefield/Philpot for proof of that.  Pretty sure they were all on ELC / 1st-2-years contract in 2023.  No wonder MTL could afford Sankey / Lemon.

Either MTL scouts are the best in the CFL by a country mile, or they hit the luck jackpot of the century with that squad.  Our scouts need to pick up the pace.

I won't deny it, I'm happy to see Mack leave south so we don't have to face him in any other GCs.  The NFL sure botched things when they let him get away.

Might Ricky Walker be one of the next to re-sign with the Bombers?

Quote from: ModAdmin on January 19, 2024, 10:24:17 PMMight Ricky Walker be one of the next to re-sign with the Bombers?

I'd call him a key piece, at a position we've often had trouble with retention.  Seems to fit in really well, has a great attitude, is improving all the time, and has a nice sack celebration.  No one is in the hopper, and some other FA will probably cost more.  Get 'er done!

Quote from: ModAdmin on January 19, 2024, 10:24:17 PMMight Ricky Walker be one of the next to re-sign with the Bombers?

We don't usually re-sign our DTs. It's usually been a position we replace on the cheap.

Quote from: Jesse on January 20, 2024, 04:04:58 AMWe don't usually re-sign our DTs. It's usually been a position we replace on the cheap.

Ya, but we usually have the next IMP guy in the hopper.  We have no one (IMP) remotely ready at the moment.  As Modadmin hinted: this might be the year we finally retain a good one.

Walker's good, but he's an under-the-radar type of guy who probably won't command big $$ in FA, nor get many callers.  So we might be able to retain him somewhat affordably whilst he progresses some more.

I would love to nail him down to a 2Y contract with a slight bump in 2nd; with no guaranteed $ in Y2.  Maybe give him a signing bonus.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 20, 2024, 07:06:43 AMYa, but we usually have the next IMP guy in the hopper.  We have no one (IMP) remotely ready at the moment.  As Modadmin hinted: this might be the year we finally retain a good one.

Walker's good, but he's an under-the-radar type of guy who probably won't command big $$ in FA, nor get many callers.  So we might be able to retain him somewhat affordably whilst he progresses some more.

I would love to nail him down to a 2Y contract with a slight bump in 2nd; with no guaranteed $ in Y2.  Maybe give him a signing bonus.

Miles Fox would be the in-house replacement (not to mention I expect a lot of bodies along the DL at training camp this year).

I'm betting it's still a spot where we need to spend close to the minimum. The trick will be to find the next great DT on a rookie contract.

I can see Walter's isn't waiting around too much and is starting to sign other FAs while Brady & Dalton test the NFL/CFL waters.   I can't hide the fact that I'm disappointed in Brady as his inaction as far as committing to the Bombers is affecting our roster signings in a negative way.   Yeah, I get it that he's trying to get the best deal he can however the best deal for him was right in Winnipeg sitting right under his nose.  Big Egos have a way of blurring one's vision....

Not a lot of Bomber fans expected Walker to play as well as he did last season. However, you could see that in limited playing time he could make plays. Fox mite be in the same boat. Fox is 6'1" near 300 lbs. Played a little at the end of the season last year, and recorded 3 DTs and 1 sack. Fox could surprise some people just like Walker did last season. 

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 20, 2024, 05:16:53 PMI can see Walter's isn't waiting around too much and is starting to sign other FAs while Brady & Dalton test the NFL/CFL waters.   I can't hide the fact that I'm disappointed in Brady as his inaction as far as committing to the Bombers is affecting our roster signings in a negative way.   Yeah, I get it that he's trying to get the best deal he can however the best deal for him was right in Winnipeg sitting right under his nose.  Big Egos have a way of blurring one's vision....

Agree on the ego. But whatever. I honestly think we don't miss a beat with Johnny Augustine at rb. If schoen doesn't re sign, get dom rhymes ultra stud receiver let go by the lions. Lions chose whitehead over rhymes, I just don't get that but whatever, he can't get schoen to sign, sign rhymes and watch the scoreboard light Up!,

I understand Rhymes is signing with Ottawa, and as far as Whitehead, he's still a free agent. It would be intriguing to have him back in Blue.(at the right price)

Quote from: dd on January 20, 2024, 06:24:15 PMAgree on the ego. But whatever. I honestly think we don't miss a beat with Johnny Augustine at rb. If schoen doesn't re sign, get dom rhymes ultra stud receiver let go by the lions. Lions chose whitehead over rhymes, I just don't get that but whatever, he can't get schoen to sign, sign rhymes and watch the scoreboard light Up!,

Johnny is not getting the opportunity to be our starter. Brady was rushing for a 1 yard average for the first half of 2022 and they still didn't let him see the field.

Quote from: Pete on January 20, 2024, 07:27:57 PMI understand Rhymes is signing with Ottawa, and as far as Whitehead, he's still a free agent. It would be intriguing to have him back in Blue.(at the right price)

Pass on Whitehead. Injured far to much and is no longer as effective.

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 20, 2024, 05:16:53 PMI can see Walter's isn't waiting around too much and is starting to sign other FAs while Brady & Dalton test the NFL/CFL waters.   I can't hide the fact that I'm disappointed in Brady as his inaction as far as committing to the Bombers is affecting our roster signings in a negative way.   Yeah, I get it that he's trying to get the best deal he can however the best deal for him was right in Winnipeg sitting right under his nose.  Big Egos have a way of blurring one's vision....

We have no idea what Walters has offered BO20, no idea what he's expecting, what other GM's might offer, or even if he has had any interest from the NFL. 

He just came off an MOP worthy record setting season, expecting him to take the only offer on the table when he can wait a few weeks and make a more informed decision is illogical.  Unless Walters offered him his full ask, he will likely get more and better offers, and I can't see him not allowing Walters to match during the tampering period.  As long as no one goes Jones level crazy, I can see him signing before FA starts.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 21, 2024, 04:28:29 AMWe have no idea what Walters has offered BO20, no idea what he's expecting, what other GM's might offer, or even if he has had any interest from the NFL. 

He just came off an MOP worthy record setting season, expecting him to take the only offer on the table when he can wait a few weeks and make a more informed decision is illogical.  Unless Walters offered him his full ask, he will likely get more and better offers, and I can't see him not allowing Walters to match during the tampering period.  As long as no one goes Jones level crazy, I can see him signing before FA starts.

Hope you're right

Seems FA signings by the Bombers has stalled again. Around 25 FAs on our list, and Feb.13th is just around the corner.

one of the biggest issues we have is that a number of our free agents are top players that were on entry level contracts including
Shoen
Olivera
'Kolankowski
Brown (now in Ottawa)
Houston
when you're a veteran laden team you can't resign them without significant cuts elsewhere. That Shoen, Olivera, Brown are all 27 or younger also hurts. To sign any of them might mean that Hardwick, Jeffcoat, Rose, Briggs, Prukop are history.
I could see us biting the bullet to some extent to find rookie replacements that we can reap the benefits going forward.

I'm wondering if either of Olivera and Schoen get an invite to an NFL tryout?    Or will they focus on making a bigger payday with another team?    I really feel their best shot as far as their career's thriving is in the Peg!   

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 24, 2024, 11:44:29 PMI'm wondering if either of Olivera and Schoen get an invite to an NFL tryout?    Or will they focus on making a bigger payday with another team?    I really feel their best shot as far as their career's thriving is in the Peg!   

Hasn't schoen tried the NFL circuit and was cut?? I think BO is totally wasting his time on this, when you look at the sheer number of backs in each teams system, that they've drafted and invested time and money into and he's coming in from a relatively unknown D2 school and had 1 good year in the CFL. I just don't think they'll even bat an eye at him. He's too slow and too small, but whatever, its his career, he can mess it up

Schoen and Oliveira will be in high demand come CFL free agency assuming that there is no serious interest from the NFL.

Quote from: Pete on January 24, 2024, 11:05:13 PMone of the biggest issues we have is that a number of our free agents are top players that were on entry level contracts including
Shoen
Olivera
Kasantonis
Brown (now in Ottawa)
Houston
when you're a veteran laden team you can't resign them without significant cuts elsewhere. That Shoen, Olivera, Brown are all 27 or younger also hurts. To sign any of them might mean that Hardwick, Jeffcoat, Rose, Briggs, Prukop are history.
I could see us biting the bullet to some extent to find rookie replacements that we can reap the benefits going forward.

Kasantonis???

Quote from: Pigskin on January 25, 2024, 06:54:27 AMKasantonis???

Sb Kolankowski,,who no ones really talked about,but would be a significant loss.

Did Augustine re-sign? There is a transaction on CFL.CA showing him " added " to the roster.

I'm not against that but did think if we don't sign Oliveria, then we might see a pure rookie Canadian RB as some sort of ST and back up. Rosery for example.

Augustine made about $91K in 2023 so even with a small raise he's about $20K over ELC??

BO20 is a bonus NAT starter.  That's a spot where we can get better performance for a lower price using an American.

JA27 plays his role on ST's great, is a NAT and a good backup at RB.  He fills a lot of spots for a decent price. No issues with his re-signing.

Not sure if Kolankowski or Eli is our C next year.  Eli is signed, we will find out during tampering week what the rest of the league thinks about Kolankowski.  Might he end up in Ott? Does Dru like him?

Quote from: theaardvark on January 25, 2024, 04:32:53 PMBO20 is a bonus NAT starter.  That's a spot where we can get better performance for a lower price using an American.

JA27 plays his role on ST's great, is a NAT and a good backup at RB.  He fills a lot of spots for a decent price. No issues with his re-signing.

Not sure if Kolankowski or Eli is our C next year.  Eli is signed, we will find out during tampering week what the rest of the league thinks about Kolankowski.  Might he end up in Ott? Does Dru like him?

I don't think so, they might save some money but a rookie RB is not going to come close to duplicating what BO accomplished last season.  Might look like an easy fix, but it's not.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 25, 2024, 04:52:28 PMI don't think so, they might save some money but a rookie RB is not going to come close to duplicating what BO accomplished last season.  Might look like an easy fix, but it's not.

A rook rb might still get a 1,000 yard season though. Still waiting for people to tell me how we sign everybody... Players will be gone. Dru Brown already is.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 25, 2024, 04:32:53 PMBO20 is a bonus NAT starter.  That's a spot where we can get better performance for a lower price using an American.

lol, a better performance than a league MOP candidate?

Im getting a little antsy waiting for BO to re-up....Dalton as well...I think definitely that all other signings are being held in limbo, until they have decided on their future plans...I want them both back but the money has to work for us...Things should be heating up soon in the negotiations....Oh to be a fly on the wall ;D

Quote from: blueraid on January 25, 2024, 05:52:25 PMIm getting a little antsy waiting for BO to re-up....Dalton as well...I think definitely that all other signings are being held in limbo, until they have decided on their future plans...I want them both back but the money has to work for us...Things should be heating up soon in the negotiations....Oh to be a fly on the wall ;D

If Walters leaves it to the last week, he won't have enough hours in the day to negotiate all the contracts he has left on his plate. He needs to set aside a combined amount for Schoen and Brady and get on with it.  If he can't sign them both, he'll have money leftover to play in FA or tweak things during the season.

My predication is we end up giving Brady what he wants and we lose Schoen. We pick up a mid receiver like Wieneke to fill the void and rely on Lawler to make circus catches and 50/50 balls. We're paying him to do that, and it's that contract that's the reason we can't afford Schoen too.

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 25, 2024, 06:45:32 PMMy predication is we end up giving Brady what he wants and we lose Schoen. We pick up a mid receiver like Wieneke to fill the void and rely on Lawler to make circus catches and 50/50 balls. We're paying him to do that, and it's that contract that's the reason we can't afford Schoen too.

I think Brady gets to tampering week, realizes no one is offering what he wants, and ends up signing here.....and we lose Schoen. I don't think we can compete with the offers he's going to get.

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 25, 2024, 06:45:32 PMMy predication is we end up giving Brady what he wants and we lose Schoen. We pick up a mid receiver like Wieneke to fill the void and rely on Lawler to make circus catches and 50/50 balls. We're paying him to do that, and it's that contract that's the reason we can't afford Schoen too.

More or less agree, I don't think they'll give Brady what he wants but they can make him the highest paid RB in the CFL and pay him more than Harris ever received.  As for receiver, I'm pretty stoked on new recruit Ontaria Wilson + a few of the other prospects they're bringing in to compete for the job.  They could also include BOO and Jeremy Murphy in that competition, cause you never know when the next Joe Pop might emerge.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 25, 2024, 08:02:31 PMMore or less agree, I don't think they'll give Brady what he wants but they can make him the highest paid RB in the CFL and pay him more than Harris ever received.  As for receiver, I'm pretty stoked on new recruit Ontaria Wilson + a few of the other prospects they're bringing in to compete for the job.  They could also include BOO and Jeremy Murphy in that competition, cause you never know when the next Joe Pop might emerge.

Yeah, this.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 25, 2024, 08:02:31 PMMore or less agree, I don't think they'll give Brady what he wants but they can make him the highest paid RB in the CFL and pay him more than Harris ever received.  As for receiver, I'm pretty stoked on new recruit Ontaria Wilson + a few of the other prospects they're bringing in to compete for the job.  They could also include BOO and Jeremy Murphy in that competition, cause you never know when the next Joe Pop might emerge.

I guess how we handle a vacant SB slot depends on a) how much money we have left/willing to spend on a #2/3 receiver, and b) how we view risk management at this spot; i.e. do we pay a premium for a known commodity at their ceiling or roll the dice a bit on a no0b.

Quote from: Jesse on January 25, 2024, 05:23:21 PMlol, a better performance than a league MOP candidate?

Give the rock to Kevin brown 260 times and he would have blown by BO. We run the ball way more than any other team , sure BO is a decent RB but if he only got the ball for 189 attempts like brown did then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Better yet, can you imagine what Brown would have done with 260 rushing attempts and our O line?? I can and I m thinking if BO and schoen don't smarten up a Nat at slotbsvk and an import like brown at running back TOTALLY would change our offense

Quote from: dd on January 26, 2024, 01:18:56 AMGive the rock to Kevin brown 260 times and he would have blown by BO. We run the ball way more than any other team , sure BO is a decent RB but if he only got the ball for 189 attempts like brown did then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Better yet, can you imagine what Brown would have done with 260 rushing attempts and our O line?? I can and I m thinking if BO and schoen don't smarten up a Nat at slotbsvk and an import like brown at running back TOTALLY would change our offense

Sure, pick another exceptional running back and you may get similar or better production. It's not a given that you can just find that guy though. We've had lots of backs come and go, not too many get 2000 yards of offence.

Brady is not a perfect back. And if he's asking for too much, then at some point the loss we see on the field will not be greater than the cost savings of potentially going American at the RB spot. But you're not replacing his production as easily as some people seem to think. He didn't get his yards by simple having more carries. He had a 5.9 yard average. He had 500 yards receiving. He's a willing blocker. Etc, etc. etc.

Quote from: Jesse on January 26, 2024, 01:29:00 AMBrady is not a perfect back. And if he's asking for too much, then at some point the loss we see on the field will not be greater than the cost savings of potentially going American at the RB spot. But you're not replacing his production as easily as some people seem to think. He didn't get his yards by simple having more carries. He had a 5.9 yard average. He had 500 yards receiving. He's a willing blocker. Etc, etc. etc.

To be honest, and I know this will be unpopular, but I'd rather have Oulette at $170k (gius ask from Toronto) than Brady at $250k.

Quote from: VictorRomano on January 26, 2024, 10:10:27 PMTo be honest, and I know this will be unpopular, but I'd rather have Oulette at $170k (gius ask from Toronto) than Brady at $250k.

I would agree. We have had some pretty amazing American RBs. Love BO20, but there is a max price for every player.

Quote from: VictorRomano on January 26, 2024, 10:10:27 PMTo be honest, and I know this will be unpopular, but I'd rather have Oulette at $170k (gius ask from Toronto) than Brady at $250k.

I don't think anyone is going to give Brady anywhere near that, so it's a moot point, imo.

Ed Tait has reported that Alden Darby Jr. will not be returning to the Bombers in 2024.

Quote from: ModAdmin on January 27, 2024, 05:08:41 AMEd Tait has reported that Alden Darby Jr. will not be returning to the Bombers in 2024.

I think we've known that since about mid-season last year.

Quote from: Jesse on January 27, 2024, 12:09:26 PMI think we've known that since about mid-season last year.

It appeared he was released quietly earlier. Not sure why that happened exactly but I think we knew he wouldn't be back. Just a guess but I think he's finished with football for some sort of personal reason we don't need to know.

He was injured for a couple of months and lost his job to Kramdi.

Ok, we're down to about 2 weeks before free agency and a week before the tampering allowed period.

Time for the rubber to hit the road. I'm expecting some of our free agents to be signed this week.

I would say we should sign Oulette from the Argos if Brady is holding out, the guy is every much a smash mouth back like Brady and would have the same success here. This would allow us to make a decision or offer for Shoen and or Rasheed.

Wouldn't the Argos just sign Oulette if he's going for that?
I think they are similar talent levels but different type of RB's.
What other team do we suspect has the most interest in Olivera? I could see BC or Hamilton making a push for him.

Oulette would have much more success behind out Oline than he did in Toronto.  Wonder how many stories Harris has told him, good or bad, about Winnipeg...

I don't doubt that Brady will sign here, though.  He will go to tampering week, get a barometer of what he can get on the open market, and then sign here for a little less on the home town discount.  I don't think the NFL is going to factor in at all now. 

Otherwise, we have 10 picks in the draft, we have a good scouting staff, and 8 less teams competing in the "spring" leagues.

Finding a replacement shouldn't be difficult, if someone goes full Jones on him.  I'm fine with up to $200k for him, as long as he is in shape and healthy (not questioning him, just saying we've made that mistake in the past...)

On another tack, are we a team chasing players, or are we a team players are chasing?

Are there players out there in FA that are looking to the tampering period to try to get an offer to come here?

We have built this dynamic operation, this culture that is praised all over the league, and a facility that rivals any in football, does this make us a preferred destination?

We all know that Walters will choose an incumbent over a new signee, unless there is a marked improvement in play or value.  But might we get some interesting options presenting during the tampering period as our FA's shop around?

How quick do you pull the trigger?  We have obviously given our offers to all our players, if a comparable or better player comes knocking and is willing to take less, do we commit?

I can't see Walters as a guy that would use that to lowball a current player, I'd think he'd go with the one setting the price over the one matching the price, if you know what I mean.

On the other side, if a current player gets a blockbuster offer, I'm not sure how much extra over the original offer Walters will come up with.  Unless he's over the barrel, and has no other options, I can't see him overpaying for anyone, even a player coming off an MOP type season.

The only time destination seems to be a big factor is if a player is returning to his home area or returning to the team he played for.
Have we signed any player because the want to play in the coldest cfl city in Canada?
It all comes down to dollars, unfortunately.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 29, 2024, 04:15:43 PMOn another tack, are we a team chasing players, or are we a team players are chasing?

Are there players out there in FA that are looking to the tampering period to try to get an offer to come here?

We have built this dynamic operation, this culture that is praised all over the league, and a facility that rivals any in football, does this make us a preferred destination?

We all know that Walters will choose an incumbent over a new signee, unless there is a marked improvement in play or value.  But might we get some interesting options presenting during the tampering period as our FA's shop around?

How quick do you pull the trigger?  We have obviously given our offers to all our players, if a comparable or better player comes knocking and is willing to take less, do we commit?

I can't see Walters as a guy that would use that to lowball a current player, I'd think he'd go with the one setting the price over the one matching the price, if you know what I mean.

On the other side, if a current player gets a blockbuster offer, I'm not sure how much extra over the original offer Walters will come up with.  Unless he's over the barrel, and has no other options, I can't see him overpaying for anyone, even a player coming off an MOP type season.

I'd be pretty surprised in Walters went shopping in FA, since signing the last Collaros contract and adding Lawler's, he's maxed out his CC.

Quote from: Pete on January 29, 2024, 04:50:54 PMThe only time destination seems to be a big factor is if a player is returning to his home area or returning to the team he played for.
Have we signed any player because the want to play in the coldest cfl city in Canada?
It all comes down to dollars, unfortunately.

Culture and post season dollars do play a small factor.  An "all things being almost equal".  And at ELC level, cost of living here vs. Toronto or Vancouver should make a huge difference.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 29, 2024, 05:04:01 PMI'd be pretty surprised in Walters went shopping in FA, since signing the last Collaros contract and adding Lawler's, he's maxed out his CC.

You do realize that almost half the spots for this team are presently unsigned, and some of those will sign elsewhere, right?

Walters BETTER be shopping the FA market to make sure we don't end up missing the boat on players we need that might no re-sign here.

Word out there is that JJ94 is going to explore free agency.

Quote from: ModAdmin on January 29, 2024, 10:59:06 PMWord out there is that JJ94 is going to explore free agency.

I'm OK with that... if he can get a better deal than we've offered, go get it. 

I bet Walters did offer him a lower contract, maybe with playing time bonuses.  I love him when he's healthy, but that's not often enough the case.  14 games this year, 12 each of the previous 4 years... hard to hold a roster spot and $SMS not knowing what you'll get.  Its not like he's getting any younger.

I think he'd be a great guy to have on speed dial for late in the season if he doesn't get a gig.  Bring him in for the playoffs, and he'd make some nie coin for a short period.  That is if we don't have better...

With JJ headed to FA, Miller retired and Darby gone. That leaves us with 19 players still left to sign.

With our JJ money we mite be able to get a player like Carney, who had 52 DTs last season. Or maybe we go with Haba and sign Winnipegger, Mason Bennett.

The main issue with JJ is as mentioned he's prone to getting hurt. That isn't going to change with another year older. This year with the cap space getting tighter and tighter its hard to chance that.
Carney would be a good target, but Sask  Roberson would look good too. Other Dl of note would be Brandon Barlow and AC Leonard.

Quote from: Pigskin on January 29, 2024, 11:24:42 PMWith JJ headed to FA, Miller retired and Darby gone. That leaves us with 19 players still left to sign.

With our JJ money we mite be able to get a player like Carney, who had 52 DTs last season. Or maybe we go with Haba and sign Winnipegger, Mason Bennett.

Not near enough to compensate for the loss of JJ, the D-line barely survives when he's out but thrives when he's in, which is needed come playoffs.  He's the most effective DE in the league when healthy, I guess he got tired of seeing every other top DE get paid more.  Hope to god Walters can bring him back.

If not, Ti-Cats just cut Kongbo.

https://3downnation.com/2024/01/29/canadian-dl-jonathan-kongbo-says-hes-been-released-by-hamilton-tiger-cats/

JJ moving on would hurt. Our defence is not the same when he's out.

But there is opportunity here as well. If we can scout/recruit his replacement on a rookie deal that would be huge. Haba + new recruit + Kongbo could maybe add some juice and depth.

Losing JJ isn't that easy to backfill.....one of the best DEs in the CFL.....admittedly he does spend a lot of time in the cold tub yet he was instrumental in the playoff run.....not as much in the GC as they schemed against our PR with those hitch screens Techno detests!

Quote from: Pete on January 30, 2024, 12:12:54 AMThe main issue with JJ is as mentioned he's prone to getting hurt. That isn't going to change with another year older. This year with the cap space getting tighter and tighter its hard to chance that.

Let's give Jeffcoat credit, though: he always found his way out of the tub come post-season time.  Every year.  And he's usually a huge asset in the post-season.

Haba isn't going to get it done.  Maybe in the future, but not now.  When Jeffcoat is out they just double/triple-team Willie J and effectively ignore the rest of the DL, and we never get through.  So we'd need a "real" DE in FA, and if that comes at more of a cost than JJ, then we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

Hey, how about we let someone else overpay JJ, and if it's clear we're a GC team by the trade deadline, trade for JJ for the playoff run!  Genius!  We'd only have to pay a tiny portion of his full-season salary.  (Just make sure we're not locked in for any 2025 money.)

That said, the other teams know how much tub time JJ does... don't think anyone will pony up big time, and thus his spot may be filled when he comes back to KW with a tucked tail...

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 30, 2024, 03:24:12 AM...not as much in the GC as they schemed against our PR with those hitch screens Techno detests!

Argh!  PTSD!  <leaves to go cry in shower>

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 30, 2024, 08:33:45 AMThat said, the other teams know how much tub time JJ does... don't think anyone will pony up big time, and thus his spot may be filled when he comes back to KW with a tucked tail...

Anthony Lanier for 250k from the Rider and he misses as many or more games than JJ. I don't think it's gonna hurt him at all tbh.

Kongbo asked for his release from the TiCats. I don't view him as a starter but a decent back up Canadian. The fact he had issues in Vancouver resulting in being traded and now asking for his release is a little troubling.

Does he think he is better than he is and wants more money than he deserves?

I'm not opposed to bringing him back but there might be better options?

Its too bad we couldn't sign Jeffcoat to $200k per year, and have him sit in the tub the first 12 games on the 6 game IR.  Give him a boatload of nonSMS$ and have him ready for the end of the season / post season... 

Quote from: theaardvark on January 30, 2024, 03:19:07 PMIts too bad we couldn't sign Jeffcoat to $200k per year, and have him sit in the tub the first 12 games on the 6 game IR.  Give him a boatload of nonSMS$ and have him ready for the end of the season / post season... 

I agree, Jeffcoat has a chronic hip injury and I believe last year his playing time was managed to get the best performance from him when most needed. He played 14 games last season, his max was $185k, but his cap cost was probably less than $120k. Bump him up as needed, let him sit when needed, negotiate a cap hit of $150k, he still gets his pay even when not playing and it's off the books, so it's not a bad gig for him.  In his time off, they need to go all out to find his future replacement.

With Jeffcoat appearing to be going to FA, what about making Betts and offer? Make our best offer and if not good enough he will go elsewhere BUT the culture here and economy could be enough to sway him taking into consideration ALL factors including cost of living.

Quote from: Horseman on January 30, 2024, 06:56:10 PMWith Jeffcoat appearing to be going to FA, what about making Betts and offer? Make our best offer and if not good enough he will go elsewhere BUT the culture here and economy could be enough to sway him taking into consideration ALL factors including cost of living.

Betts is going to be looking for $200k+, Walters already has enough headaches fitting existing pieces back together.

betts is likely looking for Lanier money,ucj better stats,Canadian to boot. With mtrl losing Uguak youcan bet they'd go after him if he reaches free agency

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 30, 2024, 07:24:09 PMBetts is going to be looking for $200k+, Walters already has enough headaches fitting existing pieces back together.

I read he was asking for 300, lol

Still zero news on Brady. Wow, I guess he is testing FA waters.

I said this before if Ouelette is available for a decent "discount" on Brady I would pull the trigger. That guy would fit in super well here.

My favourite non BB player in the league.

As it is now Brady is really disappointing me.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 30, 2024, 09:30:37 PMStill zero news on Brady. Wow, I guess he is testing FA waters.

I said this before if Ouelette is available for a decent "discount" on Brady I would pull the trigger. That guy would fit in super well here.

My favourite non BB player in the league.

As it is now Brady is really disappointing me.

I think he was always going to take it to the tampering period. Going to see all the offers out there.

If Oullettes unavailable Any interest in Stanback? He had a decent yds per carry last year (5.4) Hes still only 29.

I was expecting Mr. Walter to sign at least a player per day this week. I guess our FAs are going to wait until next week to see if other teams are willing to pay them a little more then Mr. Walters.

Quote from: Pete on January 30, 2024, 09:46:21 PMIf Oullettes unavailable Any interest in Stanback? He had a decent yds per carry last year (5.4) Hes still only 29.

He looks like he's 34, can't stay healthy, sure hope he doesn't end up in BC where he could be the solution to their poor running game.

Quote from: Pete on January 30, 2024, 09:46:21 PMIf Oullettes unavailable Any interest in Stanback? He had a decent yds per carry last year (5.4) Hes still only 29.

Zero. He's cooked.

If we don't sign Brady, I'm pretty uninterested in any other veteran. It's just time to go import at the position and bring in a bunch of cheap competition.

Quote from: Pigskin on January 30, 2024, 09:48:02 PMI was expecting Mr. Walter to sign at least a player per day this week. I guess our FAs are going to wait until next week to see if other teams are willing to pay them a little more then Mr. Walters.

Many of our potential free agents aren't going to draw attention elsewhere. It may be we've decided to not re-sign some players like Briggs, Clements or Gauthier for example. We might sign them later but it's not going to be a bidding war either.

Now Oliveria, Schoen, Houston, Jeffcoat, Gray and Hardrick might listen to offers during the tampering period.

However, I am surprised we haven't signed a few of the others on our list.

We currently have 17 WRs on the roster. Preparing for life without Schoen?

Quote from: Pigskin on January 30, 2024, 09:48:02 PMI was expecting Mr. Walter to sign at least a player per day this week. I guess our FAs are going to wait until next week to see if other teams are willing to pay them a little more then Mr. Walters.

He can only sign those interested in being signed. If they want to test the FA waters that could backfire as I don't think anyone is going to back the truck up for any of them and once FA s start signing on other teams it's a domino effect. There no doubt in my mind that Walter's is testing the waters for alternatives to those not willing to re sign with us and given our offensive scheme we could easily plug in a number of players for those not willing to re sign. Not worried a bit in this Walters will prevail!!

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 30, 2024, 09:30:37 PMStill zero news on Brady. Wow, I guess he is testing FA waters.

I said this before if Ouelette is available for a decent "discount" on Brady I would pull the trigger. That guy would fit in super well here.

My favourite non BB player in the league.

As it is now Brady is really disappointing me.

Agreed....

Quote from: Horseman on January 30, 2024, 06:56:10 PMWith Jeffcoat appearing to be going to FA, what about making Betts and offer?

Meh.  We have zero need for a NAT @ DE right now.  Betts as NAT will command a big premium for ratio-desperate teams.

We need a good, youngish IMP DE.  I have no idea who fits that bill, but that's what we need.

Quote from: Pete on January 30, 2024, 07:36:44 PMbetts is likely looking for Lanier money,ucj better stats,Canadian to boot. With mtrl losing Uguak youcan bet they'd go after him if he reaches free agency

MTL lost Uguak?  NFL look?  That kid sure popped out of nowhere to make a name for himself.  MTL had way too many superb ELCs for us to overcome in the GC.  Glad to see they are having the champion-drain effect we've had to suffer for 4 seasons.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on January 30, 2024, 09:30:37 PMI said this before if Ouelette is available for a decent "discount" on Brady I would pull the trigger. That guy would fit in super well here.

My favourite non BB player in the league.

Meh.  The sounds-like-a-NAT, looks-like-a-NAT, but-isn't-a-NAT Ouelette always reminds me of Hecht.  Too much focus on the weight room and not enough focus on the film room.  Sure they have the biggest arms and chests in the entire CFL, but does it buy them much on-field?

Ouelette looked horrible vs MTL in EDF.  And he always looks injured, like he's fighting through something, and he wants to be spelled waaaay more than we've ever spelled BO or AH.  Like every 3rd play he's asking for a break.  We don't spell our RB for more than a second most drives.  Are we going to put JA27 in for half the series' snaps?  Then they'll know it's a throwing down.  It's ridiculous, and not the MOS way.

Quote from: Pete on January 30, 2024, 09:46:21 PMIf Oullettes unavailable Any interest in Stanback? He had a decent yds per carry last year (5.4) Hes still only 29.

Stanback is actually a perfect fit for how WFC plays O.  A bruising back who can smash between the tackles, but clearly still has massive top speed.  I've been a tepid Stanback fan; I always thought he was 1up on Messam, but far below AH.

I hope Stanback stays on the market until we sign Brady as this is great leverage to put the heat on Brady!  We need good-fit alternatives out there in order to not look like we're boxed in a Brady corner.

Quote from: Pete on January 30, 2024, 09:46:21 PMIf Oullettes unavailable Any interest in Stanback? He had a decent yds per carry last year (5.4) Hes still only 29.

No!

As someone else suggested, maybe Antwi is the answer?  He wouldn't be expensive, and he can share reps with already-dressed Johnny.

6'0 220lbs, he's very similar to Brady.  How much of Brady's success is Brady and how much is the OL, Buck, the scheme, the blockers, etc... Sign Antwi and let's find out!

If he sucks then cut him and throw in the towel and just switch to being an IMP RB team.

Salima looked good in 2023 PS games.  And who was the other promising guy the season before?  What's he doing?

I am pretty sure Antwi was extended a week ago.

Quote from: Pigskin on January 31, 2024, 06:55:17 AMI am pretty sure Antwi was extended a week ago.

Poo!  Maybe MTL made the move to block us from having a viable NAT alternative??  They don't use him too much.  He always dresses but he's basically their Johnny.  Doesn't see many snaps except as a speller.

Wow, MTL has been getting a lot more accomplished in FA than we have.  It feels weird to be behind the 8 ball in re-signings.  We're usually so good.

Is it just me, or is this Waiting For Brady starting to be a bit of a bummer?

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 31, 2024, 08:04:18 AMPoo!  Maybe MTL made the move to block us from having a viable NAT alternative??  They don't use him too much.  He always dresses but he's basically their Johnny.  Doesn't see many snaps except as a speller.

Wow, MTL has been getting a lot more accomplished in FA than we have.  It feels weird to be behind the 8 ball in re-signings.  We're usually so good.

Is it just me, or is this Waiting For Brady starting to be a bit of a bummer?

Yeah the last couple years we have been pretty good at re-signing our players.  But I guess it's eventually caught up to us, not enough money to throw around and give everyone the raises they want.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 31, 2024, 08:04:18 AMPoo!  Maybe MTL made the move to block us from having a viable NAT alternative??  They don't use him too much.  He always dresses but he's basically their Johnny.  Doesn't see many snaps except as a speller.

Wow, MTL has been getting a lot more accomplished in FA than we have.  It feels weird to be behind the 8 ball in re-signings.  We're usually so good.

Is it just me, or is this Waiting For Brady starting to be a bit of a bummer?

I've read many people denigrate Danny Maciocia, but somebody in that room has a great nose for talent and it's paying dividends.  So great to have a couple of good teams in the East playing competitive ball, just what the CFL needs.

I can't get into the new merged Streveler string. On Good Morning Big Blue it's reporting that his deal is $120K plus playing incentives. That would be a very friendly team deal and not much more than additional cost to the SMS.

Prukop wouldn't have been on an ELC and Brown might have been above an ELC as well?

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 31, 2024, 04:11:39 PMI can't get into the new merged Streveler string. On Good Morning Big Blue it's reporting that his deal is $120K plus playing incentives. That would be a very friendly team deal and not much more than additional cost to the SMS.

Prukop wouldn't have been on an ELC and Brown might have been above an ELC as well?

At $120k plus incentives its a steal.  I think he should be our new #1 RB as well... do we need to re-sign BO20 now?

You can have 2 QB's on the field now, can you imagine a DC game planning against Steveler lined up behind Collaros?

Streveler played Rec in college, and we know he can run, this opens up the playbook for Buck. 

We will have a very experienced QB room to groom our next starter, for sure.

A one year deal at that rate screams a "Betting on Myself" situation, hoping to showcase his talents for consideration for a starters role next year.

Love the 120 base and hopefully it's heavy on incentives in case he needs to play a lot and he can make some bank. Totally de-risks us.

So happy to have a 1-2 punch at the most important position in Canadian football.

Regardless of how the rest of our FAs shake out, I'm now excited beyond belief for the season!

Can't figure out the Strev. posts....says moved...but to where?

So like the poster above I will put it here...$120 plus incentives is a great deal!!

What happened to the Streveler string ? ... I finally post something, and it's GONE  :D

Quote from: wpg#1 on January 31, 2024, 04:35:14 PMWhat happened to the Streveler string ? ... I finally post something, and it's GONE  :D

Here you go...

https://forums.bluebombers.com/index.php?topic=55473.105

Still waiting to hear about some of our other players being re-signed. Something has to give. One way or another it looks like we'll see a few of our players moving on.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 31, 2024, 04:01:57 PMI've read many people denigrate Danny Maciocia, but somebody in that room has a great nose for talent and it's paying dividends.  So great to have a couple of good teams in the East playing competitive ball, just what the CFL needs.

Literally the only thing I knew about Maciocia was his faux pas of celebrating on the field 1 play early in a GC.  And, he doesn't look like your typical CFL GM or HC.  Maybe he's the Moneyball wonk of the CFL.

But I totally respect him now because he and whoever he hired as scouts found a whack ton of ELC IMP and NAT talent, most of whom are now guaranteed future superstars.  His roster looked like hot garbage full of nobodies in week 1.  Everyone, including me, thought they were the next EDM.

But then, bam, basically all 4 main receivers were on fire, especially in the post-season.  Their DBs were out of this world.  Great new LBers.  Amazing find in Ugulak(sp?).  All nobodies who are now somebodies and will be coveted by other teams in '25 FA.  They didn't even need Lemon, probably, to win the cup.  Sankey helped, but their existing DL was probably good enough.

It was like '19 and '21 in WPG when we were finding all these future superstars and NFL-level people.  Lately we've been scoring on only 1 a year: Schoen '22, and Holm '23.  Good, but not enough to help with SMS woes come FA as 2-year ELCs expire.

Our scouts need to up their game to compete with what MTL is doing!

Looks like we've resigned both Nick and Noah Hallet. Good to see! Nick did a great job for us last year both on st and back up safety

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 31, 2024, 08:04:18 AMPoo!  Maybe MTL made the move to block us from having a viable NAT alternative??  They don't use him too much.  He always dresses but he's basically their Johnny.  Doesn't see many snaps except as a speller.

Wow, MTL has been getting a lot more accomplished in FA than we have.  It feels weird to be behind the 8 ball in re-signings.  We're usually so good.

Is it just me, or is this Waiting For Brady starting to be a bit of a bummer?

Ahh....yeah.

This!

https://3downnation.com/2024/01/31/canadian-brady-oliveira-american-a-j-ouellette-can-reset-respective-cfl-rb-markets/

Perhaps there are teams that need a ratio breaker like Brady and are willing to pay him?   

It would be a new trend in the CFL if he manages to do this.  I sort of hear what Andrew Harris is saying, however establishing new trends in sports when it comes to salaries is easier said than done.

I would bet riders go after Olivera, if only to not have a bomber back run all over them as Olivera and Harris have done in recent years

Quote from: Pete on February 01, 2024, 01:01:36 AMLooks like we've resigned both Nick and Noah Hallet. Good to see! Nick did a great job for us last year both on st and back up safety

Yes, sounds like Nick for 2 years and Noah for one year.

Looks like Stanton could be available for a bit of a deal.....he's still has a lot of juice and he's still has plenty of speed.    He would likely thrive behind our O-line if Brady jumps ship.    Always liked him despite his injuries.

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/football/cfl/montreal-alouettes/i-didnt-feel-a-part-of-the-plans-stanback-says-about-leaving-alouettes

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 01, 2024, 06:20:30 AMLooks like Stanton could be available for a bit of a deal.....he's still has a lot of juice and he's still has plenty of speed.    He would likely thrive behind our O-line if Brady jumps ship.    Always liked him despite his injuries.

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/football/cfl/montreal-alouettes/i-didnt-feel-a-part-of-the-plans-stanback-says-about-leaving-alouettes

I definitely do not want to sign an older, injury plagued RB. I think, as a team, we're trying to get younger at a few spots. RB is not the position to go older.

No to a vet. We brought in some American RB's that have looked pretty good in camp but what chance have they had with us guaranteed to go Canadian at that spot? I am confident they can bring in one or two guys with talent at a cheaper price if it comes to that.

Good. We've re-signed both Nick and Noah Hallett. Along with several other Canadian DB's on the roster, our depth there is good. It might mean that we don't bring back Exume and essentially replace him with Noah Hallett.

Exume is not a bad ST player but I'm thinking we may see more of Kelly in 2024. Depending on how the roster breaks down I'm thinking if Noah stays healthy this is a make or break season to win an AR spot.

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 01, 2024, 01:05:15 PMGood. We've re-signed both Nick and Noah Hallett. Along with several other Canadian DB's on the roster, our depth there is good. It might mean that we don't bring back Exume and essentially replace him with Noah Hallett.

Exume is not a bad ST player but I'm thinking we may see more of Kelly in 2024. Depending on how the roster breaks down I'm thinking if Noah stays healthy this is a make or break season to win an AR spot.

Unless Exume does not like being in Wpg. I see no reason not to bring him back, he is "not a bad" ST player, he a great ST player and he has the potential to contribute to the secondary if given the opportunity. There are older ST players that need to be kicked out of the barn first. Doesn't have anything to do with the Hallett bros. they are all part of the young ST core that will lead the team in the future.

We will probably sign Brady, I don't think anyone is going to "redefine the market for RB's" this year, and he's smart enough to know where he has it best, so we can compete in the market. 

The tampering window does make for a new level of intrigue, whereas before you could fire off a salvo of offers the minute FA season opens, now, all that negotiation will take place over a week, and only a few first offer/best offer situations will exist. 

Brady might be one of them, with teams throwing a big number at him with a limited timeframe so they can go to plan B, but still, I think he will get a good idea what his demand level is, and probably sign before FA opens.  At least I hope so, because then we know what we need to do, and our budget for minute 1 of free agency.

As to redefining the pay structure, the argument that WR's get 4-5 touches a game, whereas RB's get 20 is kinda specious, more WR have 100 yard games than RB's... and a lot of RB's spend a lot of time in the tub.  And its easier to have a 5th rec. NAT with a low drop off backup than a #1 RB NAT,so ratio wise, you better have a good NAT RB backup if you are using that as a ratio spot.  And that costs on top of the NAT RB.  Brady's NAT status was superfluous in our ratio count, and JA27 was a decent NAT RB backup that played teams, but we could have as easily used McCrea s backup and not suffered ratio-wise.
 

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 01, 2024, 03:17:31 PMUnless Exume does not like being in Wpg. I see no reason not to bring him back, he is "not a bad" ST player, he a great ST player and he has the potential to contribute to the secondary if given the opportunity. There are older ST players that need to be kicked out of the barn first. Doesn't have anything to do with the Hallet bros. they are all part of the young ST core that will lead the team in the future.

Not exactly. We don't tend to keep too many Canadian DB's on the AR. Noah Hallett would in theory be a +1. Tyrell Ford could be a +2 to find a spot for.

10 draft choices this year.

I agree that some of the other Canadian depth will not be re-signed but that probably falls at the LB position.

It hasn't seemed that Exume will progress past an ST player and considering how poorly our ST performed in 2023, I don't know he is part of the future.  On one hand he had 17 ST's in 14 games. On the other hand returners were always making longer returns than they should have. Part of that falls on him but the entire return team players.  We'll see but IMO he'll have a tough time making the AR and I'm not convinced he's re-signed.

The other issue will be a need to shed some SMS and that will come at the cost of 2 - 4 year back up players.

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 01, 2024, 06:20:30 AMLooks like Stanton could be available for a bit of a deal.....he's still has a lot of juice and he's still has plenty of speed.    He would likely thrive behind our O-line if Brady jumps ship.    Always liked him despite his injuries.

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/football/cfl/montreal-alouettes/i-didnt-feel-a-part-of-the-plans-stanback-says-about-leaving-alouettes

Stanback had a handful of drives where he dominated. Each time, he pulled himself from the field as the Alouettes got into the red zone. I question whether he has the endurance to be an every down RB in this league.

Quote from: Stats Junkie on February 02, 2024, 10:08:29 PMStanback had a handful of drives where he dominated. Each time, he pulled himself from the field as the Alouettes got into the red zone. I question whether he has the endurance to be an every down RB in this league.

I also have some reservations about his durability....his running is what I love and he also has good speed for a bigger back.....something that Brady is lacking somewhat and likely why the NFL wasn't that keen on.   Speed is something you either have or you don't....unless of course you're going to shed a significant amount of bulk which then impacts your power game.

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 03, 2024, 02:46:42 AMI also have some reservations about his durability....his running is what I love and he also has good speed for a bigger back.....something that Brady is lacking somewhat and likely why the NFL wasn't that keen on.   Speed is something you either have or you don't....unless of course you're going to shed a significant amount of bulk which then impacts your power game.

Funny, that's exactly what Stanback did prior to last season, decided to shed bulk to improve speed. Not sure he's much faster than Brady, both have adequate speed for bruising backs similar to Andrew Harris.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 03, 2024, 05:14:58 AMFunny, that's exactly what Stanback did prior to last season, decided to shed bulk to improve speed. Not sure he's much faster than Brady, both have adequate speed for bruising backs similar to Andrew Harris.

On his 32 yard romp for a TD in the GC game he displayed some good speed....for a power back. 

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on February 03, 2024, 06:21:57 AMOn his 32 yard romp for a TD in the GC game he displayed some good speed....for a power back. 

How in the world do we give that up in that game? Ugh! One thing I need to see this season is a much improved defense from what we rolled with last season. It seemed to start with a momentum killing BO fumble that sparked an unlikely 16 point comeback from Ottawa that ultimately sees us lose in OT. From that point forward I had little to no confidence in our D culminating with our defensive collapse in the GC. Just don't ever want to see that kind of crap ever again.

Quote from: J5V on February 03, 2024, 06:47:44 PMHow in the world do we give that up in that game? Ugh! One thing I need to see this season is a much improved defense from what we rolled with last season. It seemed to start with a momentum killing BO fumble that sparked an unlikely 16 point comeback from Ottawa that ultimately sees us lose in OT. From that point forward I had little to no confidence in our D culminating with our defensive collapse in the GC. Just don't ever want to see that kind of crap ever again.

The Interior of our D line is porous against the run snd has zero push agsinst the pass , they are our defensive weakness and we d better do something this off season to address that

Quote from: dd on February 03, 2024, 08:30:45 PMThe I terror of our D line is porous against the run snd has zero push agsinst the pass , they are our defensive weakness and we d better do something this off season to address that

I'd kinda like to see if the Canadian Mafia would be interested in replacing Walker with 6'9 Shawn Oakman. Imagine the wingspan of him and Jefferson crashing down on a QB.

Only a few hours left until the communication window opens. Bombers have a number of players still unsigned.

A List: Oliveira, Schoen, Walker, Jeffcoat, Hardrick, Houston, Alexander, Bailey, Gray. Gauthier.

B List: Clements, Hansen, Castillo, Briggs, Grant.

Interesting FAs. Leake, Bede, Carney, Bennett or Kongbo.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 03, 2024, 11:03:44 PMOnly a few hours left until the communication window opens. Bombers have a number of players still unsigned.

A List: Oliveira, Schoen, Walker, Jeffcoat, Hardrick, Houston, Alexander, Bailey, Gray. Gauthier.

B List: Clements, Hansen, Castillo, Briggs, Grant.

Interesting FAs. Leake, Bede, Carney, Bennett or Kongbo.

Some big changes seem to be happening. Like 6 former all stars in that group.

Quote from: Jesse on February 04, 2024, 12:58:23 AMSome big changes seem to be happening. Like 6 former all stars in that group.

Not sure why we aren't signing Alexander ??

Alexander isn't as effective as he was 2 years ago, lost a step and doesn't hit as hard. I could see us moving on, Although i do see him in the coaching ranks
 

Quote from: Pete on February 04, 2024, 02:16:16 AMAlexander isn't as effective as he was 2 years ago, lost a step and doesn't hit as hard. I could see us moving on, Although i do see him in the coaching ranks

Alexander is rarely in the right place on mid/deep passes.  Doesn't seem to be doing much run-stopping anymore.  Never seems to be in the picture on many plays.

Could have been Hall putting him in the wrong place, though.  BA's positioning isn't always his choice.

DBs seem to have the shortest lifespan of any CFL player.  I've come to view them as transient and try not to get too attached; it makes me too sad.

I have no idea what we'll do at FS this season.  Maybe we can find the "next guy" in TC.

So does the flurry of re-signings last week hint that maybe the team has reached a solution to the "Brady / Schoen problem"?  Maybe they have a clearer picture of whether they are staying / going and also who the likely replacements are, and more importantly, how much they will cost?

Quote from: Jesse on February 04, 2024, 12:58:23 AMSome big changes seem to be happening. Like 6 former all stars in that group.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 03, 2024, 11:03:44 PMOnly a few hours left until the communication window opens. Bombers have a number of players still unsigned.

A List: Oliveira, Schoen, Walker, Jeffcoat, Hardrick, Houston, Alexander, Bailey, Gray. Gauthier.

B List: Clements, Hansen, Castillo, Briggs, Grant.

Interesting FAs. Leake, Bede, Carney, Bennett or Kongbo.

Not good in my opinion, I think Walters will look back on this past month as a failure and perhaps become an early contender for losing FA.  Couldn't decide how much to budget for Brady and Schoen and let a troop of steady B+ players that are critical to their success walk past his office on their way to FA. Clements, Castillo, Grant, Gauthier, Gray, Bailey and Walker should have all been hog-tied and branded before the end of January.  Their initial salary demands would not have been that outrageous, but may become more difficult to meet if other teams show interest.

Afraid this could be the dreaded year they lose the magic of roster continuity with the potential of 8-10 high caliber veterans leaving the team.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 04, 2024, 05:42:30 AMNot good in my opinion, I think Walters will look back on this past month as a failure and perhaps become an early contender for losing FA.  Couldn't decide how much to budget for Brady and Schoen and let a troop of steady B+ players that are critical to their success walk past his office on their way to FA. Clements, Castillo, Grant, Gauthier, Gray, Bailey and Walker should have all been hog-tied and branded before the end of January.  Their initial salary demands would not have been that outrageous, but may become more difficult to meet if other teams show interest.

Afraid this could be the dreaded year they lose the magic of roster continuity with the potential of 8-10 high caliber veterans leaving the team.

A lot of assumptions here.

Today is the day we'll start to get some ideas of who is moving on? We might see a couple of back ups signed shortly as the dust settles. Monday, C'mon down and re-sign in Winnipeg. You know that's where you want to be.
:)

Sound like Bede doesn't think he will be signing with the Argos.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 04, 2024, 04:23:17 PMSound like Bede doesn't think he will be signing with the Argos.

I thought he was a decent kicker. Interesting, imd pick him up and go NAT at the kicker position and get rid of our bogus global punter

Boris was born in France, played his football at Laval, but his status in the CFL is American. Love to have his big leg in Winnipeg, but can see him in Hamilton. 

Quote from: Pigskin on February 04, 2024, 04:47:17 PMBoris was born in France, played his football at Laval, but his status in the CFL is American. Love to have his big leg in Winnipeg, but can see him in Hamilton. 

So why is he considered an import?

Bede can boom the ball.

Why we are playing around with Castillo again seems silly. 

Quote from: The Zipp on February 04, 2024, 05:51:06 PMSo why is he considered an import?

Bede can boom the ball.

Why we are playing around with Castillo again seems silly. 

That's been an ongoing mystery since he first came to the CFL, in the least you would think he could be classified as a global if not a Natl.  Might have to do with originally being declared an Import, and not being able to change status?

Quote from: The Zipp on February 04, 2024, 05:51:06 PMSo why is he considered an import?

Bede can boom the ball.

Why we are playing around with Castillo again seems silly. 

Bede started his college career at Tiffin University (Ohio). Because he played American football first he is considered an International or American. Global designation didn't exist when he entered the CFL.

Quote from: The Zipp on February 04, 2024, 05:51:06 PMSo why is he considered an import?

Bede can boom the ball.

Why we are playing around with Castillo again seems silly. 

Could be the other way around.  Just sayin'.

Quote from: The Zipp on February 04, 2024, 05:51:06 PMWhy we are playing around with Castillo again seems silly. 

If Castillo comes cheaper than Bede, I'm fine with him.  This would make a great negotiating tactic with Castillo... "Bede will take the job for $140, so you need to take $120 'cause your % and KO distance aren't as good."

Man, waiting for the tampering period was a waste of energy for me.

The whole day goes by and not a single rumour about offers on any of our players? Just some kicker drama from out east?

Speculation is that Bede will sign with Edmonton.

Walters should pursue Bede much better kicker than Castillo especially on KO.

Hodge is saying Houston won't be back... we seem to recruit and develop great DB's and the lose them all to the NFL or FA... 

Hoping that pipe is still full...

Losing Hardrick should save about $75K ( maybe a bit more ) with either Richmond or a rookie on an ELC.

That frees ups some money to re-sign some of our other players?

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 05, 2024, 08:31:00 PMLosing Hardrick should save about $75K ( maybe a bit more ) with either Richmond or a rookie on an ELC.

That frees ups some money to re-sign some of our other players?

My thought exactly.  We know tough decisions are made in free agency and this year, with Oliveira and Schoen in the balance, even more so.

There are rumours, repeat rumours, out there that Lucky Whitehead will return to the Bombers.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 05, 2024, 12:11:04 AMIf Castillo comes cheaper than Bede, I'm fine with him.  This would make a great negotiating tactic with Castillo... "Bede will take the job for $140, so you need to take $120 'cause your % and KO distance aren't as good."

If Bede is available I wouldn't even bother with csstillo

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 05, 2024, 10:26:02 PMThere are rumours, repeat rumours, out there that Lucky Whitehead will return to the Bombers.

Yuk! Please no!

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 05, 2024, 10:26:02 PMThere are rumours, repeat rumours, out there that Lucky Whitehead will return to the Bombers.

He would have to come pretty cheap for that to make any sense.

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 05, 2024, 10:26:02 PMThere are rumours, repeat rumours, out there that Lucky Whitehead will return to the Bombers.

We don't need him, unless Grant walks.  Then Lucky would be our full-time returner again.  However, he's lost a lot of speed over the last few seasons.

We don't need him at receiver.  He has no hands and we don't have a role for his style of play.

Quote from: Jesse on February 06, 2024, 12:08:24 AMHe would have to come pretty cheap for that to make any sense.

Lucky will be pretty cheap no matter where he signs.  He's not terribly useful anymore.  BC should keep him just for the fan PR.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 06, 2024, 12:13:11 AMWe don't need him, unless Grant walks.  Then Lucky would be our full-time returner again.  However, he's lost a lot of speed over the last few seasons.

We don't need him at receiver.  He has no hands and we don't have a role for his style of play.

Lucky will be pretty cheap no matter where he signs.  He's not terribly useful anymore.  BC should keep him just for the fan PR.

Maybe as a more expensive gadget replacement for McCrae, but as a returner he wouldn't last 4 games before sustaining injury.

An upgrade to Grant and a more durable player would be Leake. Would love to see him in Blue and Gold.

Lucky on a min contract with incentives would be fine... especially if Grant is not under contract or good to go... and if we lose Schoen.  Without Schoen, everyone moves up the roster, and Lucky comes in as 5th WR

OK, now just Schoen...

and I understand if he gets a better offer, like Hardrick

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/blue-bombers-sign-canadian-star-rb-brady-oliveira-to-two-year-deal-1.2072310

One down, one to go...

Schoen staying in Winnipeg.

https://3downnation.com/2024/02/06/sources-all-star-receiver-dalton-schoen-to-re-sign-with-winnipeg-blue-bombers/

Well, its done.  Hat tip to Walters

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/02/06/blue-bombers-agree-to-terms-with-cfl-all-star-receiver-dalton-schoen/?fbclid=IwAR0mbzjSnbjkPCI95_k-zYhZKa2SmqsSy7beyKHq16rnXP3KORx82VZlAII

So, 19 free agents unsigned, no one poached off other rosters yet, leaves a lot of work to do although the heavy lifting is done.

Brady, Dalton, Chris... that's all great, but still some spots that need filling. 

Schoen is back: https://www.cfl.ca/2024/02/06/staying-in-the-peg-bombers-schoen-agree-to-one-year-deal/

Love it!

Sounds like it is around $230k... is this a case of Brady/Dalton signing same/same deals like Hellebuyck/Schieffle did?  Difference is BO20 is here for 2 years, DS83 here for only 1...

Quote from: theaardvark on February 06, 2024, 08:07:17 PMSounds like it is around $230k... is this a case of Brady/Dalton signing same/same deals like Hellebuyck/Schieffle did?  Difference is BO20 is here for 2 years, DS83 here for only 1...

I feel like DS was a quicker deal..they will retain Schoen.  We may have Lawler money after that as his $ will go down most likely.

We need Bailey now please.

Quote from: tlf on February 06, 2024, 08:13:24 PMI feel like DS was a quicker deal..they will retain Schoen.  We may have Lawler money after that as his $ will go down most likely.

We need Bailey now please.

Bailey, Clements, Castillo, Gauthier, Grant, Gray, Walker and Jeffcoat, all important pieces, but there may be nuclear fallout from the two signings today.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 06, 2024, 08:23:32 PMBailey, Clements, Castillo, Gauthier, Grant, Gray, Walker and Jeffcoat, all important pieces, but there may be nuclear fallout from the two signings today.

Lots of guys with important roles, but may be luxuries we can't afford.

Couldn't be happier at the signings today. It would have hurt my soul to see them move on.

But yes, prepare to see other positions filled with rookies.

Gonna be some Training Camp battles to watch this year.

Quote from: kkc60 on February 06, 2024, 08:26:46 PMLots of guys with important roles, but may be luxuries we can't afford.

It may be that other teams are spending their money elsewhere, so we may see some of them back. That said we've already lost Hardrick and Houston so re-signings do come at a cost elsewhere on the roster. Those with the highest previous and biggest new salary expectations are mostly likely leaving?

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 06, 2024, 08:31:18 PMIt may be that other teams are spending their money elsewhere, so we may see some of them back. That said we've already lost Hardrick and Houston so re-signings do come at a cost elsewhere on the roster. Those with the highest previous and biggest new salary expectations are mostly likely leaving?

Can't see Jeffcoat or Bailey back, but I said the same thing last year. Difference of course  is last year Schoen and Oliveira were bargains, now they're not.

One name I haven't seen much here that I could see back for cheap is Brandon Alexander. Most teams play a canadian at safety, with Oliveira we can stray away from that.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 06, 2024, 08:03:05 PMSo, 19 free agents unsigned, no one poached off other rosters yet, leaves a lot of work to do although the heavy lifting is done.

Brady, Dalton, Chris... that's all great, but still some spots that need filling. 

Of the 19 left a number of those we don't want to  resign likely
Rose, Darby.prukop. Briggs,
Probably the biggest question mark right now is the defensive line.
Our offence looks awesome again ..basically out Bailey, Hardwick, which we will probably replace with rookies Add in Streveler and we haven't taken the step back many anticipated

Quote from: theaardvark on February 06, 2024, 08:07:17 PMSounds like it is around $230k... is this a case of Brady/Dalton signing same/same deals like Hellebuyck/Schieffle did?  Difference is BO20 is here for 2 years, DS83 here for only 1...

Random note to point out.  Lawler is only signed for 2024 season as well and the CFL salary cap goes up 100k in 2025.
Might see some healthy team competition for top dog bragging rights.
Hypothetically if the Bombers were to go to the Grey Cup again why not try keeping the key people in place.

Bailey signed here for less last year, and was a key contributor.  I hope he does the same again this year...

Quote from: Jesse on February 06, 2024, 08:28:21 PMCouldn't be happier at the signings today. It would have hurt my soul to see them move on.

But yes, prepare to see other positions filled with rookies.

Gonna be some Training Camp battles to watch this year.

The problem with starting rookies even if they're great athletes, is a lot of times they don't know what they're supposed to be doing and make costly errors. The Bombers have relied on a slow acclimatization period the last several years to bring rookies up to speed. Starting raw rookies is best avoided whenever possible.

We spent a lot of money on the O today. Hope there's some left for our D.

A transaction on CFL.CA shows Richmond transferred to " retired "??? So much for him being the RT pencilled in for TC??

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 06, 2024, 09:40:11 PMThe problem with starting rookies even if they're great athletes, is a lot of times they don't know what they're supposed to be doing and make costly errors. The Bombers have relied on a slow acclimatization period the last several years to bring rookies up to speed. Starting raw rookies is best avoided whenever possible.

I agree with this statement so much. It's pretty rare for that talent to be so off the charts that you're enticed to take that risk. Sometimes it does happen but it's rare.

Quote from: KINGCHARLES on February 06, 2024, 09:25:32 PMRandom note to point out.  Lawler is only signed for 2024 season as well and the CFL salary cap goes up 100k in 2025.
Might see some healthy team competition for top dog bragging rights.
Hypothetically if the Bombers were to go to the Grey Cup again why not try keeping the key people in place.

Lawler is going to have to put a full season together to earn the right to be back, imo. He makes way too much money to put together the part seasons he's done so far.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 06, 2024, 09:40:11 PMThe problem with starting rookies even if they're great athletes, is a lot of times they don't know what they're supposed to be doing and make costly errors. The Bombers have relied on a slow acclimatization period the last several years to bring rookies up to speed. Starting raw rookies is best avoided whenever possible.

You. But we just doubled Brady's salary and tripled Schoen's. these are the trade offs you gotta make.

And it's not necessarily "starting" rookies, but interchanging some veteran depth players who make 100k+ for some recent draft picks who are still playing under rookie deals.

Collaros - $600K
Lawler - $285K
Oliveira - $230K
Schoen - $230K
Demski - $200K

Over $1.5 Million for 5 players on offence.

Quote from: Ridermania on February 06, 2024, 11:04:37 PMCollaros - $600K
Lawler - $285K
Oliveira - $230K
Schoen - $230K
Demski - $200K

Over $1.5 Million for 5 players on offence.

And there isn't a team in the league who wouldn't take all 5 of those players at those salaries. Ya gotta pay impact players what they're worth, and Walters can do math as well as anyone.

Quote from: Ridermania on February 06, 2024, 11:04:37 PMCollaros - $600K
Lawler - $285K
Oliveira - $230K
Schoen - $230K
Demski - $200K

Over $1.5 Million for 5 players on offence.

The other aspect is the increase these players got compared to 2023:
Collaros: 550,000 to 600,000, increase of 50,000 (assuming he does not restructure his contract)
Lawyer: 258,000 to 285,000, an increase of 17,000 (plus his suspension resulted in Bombers saving some salary in 2023)
Oliveira: 114,000 to 230,000, an increase of 116,000
Schoen: 70,000 minimum to 230,000, an increase of 160,000
Demski: 175,000 to ? 190,000 or 200,000, an increase of 15-25,000

The total increase is depending on Demski's 2024 salary, about 358,0000 to 368,000. That's alot of SMS eaten up. The cap is going up by 135,000 for 2024, but that's still about 223,000 to 233,000 that needs to come off other salaries. I would guess we save about 100,000 if we go from Hardrick at RT to a rookie American (less of a saving is we sign Gray for RT). We probably save about another 100,000 going from Jeffcoat to an entry level American like Haba. Then there are probably some savings to be had in the secondary (Houston and Rose replaced with entry level contracts) and in our Canadian special team vets being replaced by younger players, plus Jake Thomas taking a bit of a cut now that Lawson will be the starter. Also, apparently Bryant took a bit less. So I assume this is how Walters made it all work.

Quote from: bunker on February 07, 2024, 02:01:39 AMThe other aspect is the increase these players got compared to 2023:
Collaros: 550,000 to 600,000, increase of 50,000 (assuming he does not restructure his contract)
Lawyer: 258,000 to 285,000, an increase of 17,000 (plus his suspension resulted in Bombers saving some salary in 2023)
Oliveira: 114,000 to 230,000, an increase of 116,000
Schoen: 70,000 minimum to 230,000, an increase of 160,000
Demski: 175,000 to ? 190,000 or 200,000, an increase of 15-25,000

The total increase is depending on Demski's 2024 salary, about 358,0000 to 368,000. That's alot of SMS eaten up. The cap is going up by 135,000 for 2024, but that's still about 223,000 to 233,000 that needs to come off other salaries. I would guess we save about 100,000 if we go from Hardrick at RT to a rookie American (less of a saving is we sign Gray for RT). We probably save about another 100,000 going from Jeffcoat to an entry level American like Haba. Then there are probably some savings to be had in the secondary (Houston and Rose replaced with entry level contracts) and in our Canadian special team vets being replaced by younger players, plus Jake Thomas taking a bit of a cut now that Lawson will be the starter. Also, apparently Bryant took a bit less. So I assume this is how Walters made it all work.

agree with all but Houston, he would have been on an entry level contract (was re-upped after finishing the 2021 season on the practice squad).

I also hope we go younger on canadian STers, but I also hope some experience is brought in. Miller as a coach should help though.

Apparently BC was offering Brady 250,000 plus over 3 years
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/~2818618

Quote from: bunker on February 07, 2024, 02:20:54 AMApparently BC was offering Brady 250,000 plus over 3 years
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/~2818618

wow! even happier we brought him back

Quote from: bunker on February 07, 2024, 02:20:54 AMApparently BC was offering Brady 250,000 plus over 3 years
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/~2818618

The cost of living in Vancouver is a killer.  I'd bet he is financially better off with the lower salary in Winnipeg.

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 07, 2024, 06:06:12 AMThe cost of living in Vancouver is a killer.  I'd bet he is financially better off with the lower salary in Winnipeg.

He's better off in so many ways....he has the backing of the entire community which he wouldn't have in Vancouver.   He did manage to reset the salary boundaries for RBs and KW was willing to ante up to keep him.    There will be consequences however and we're starting to see the results however it was really unavoidable along with our signing of Dalton Schoen

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 07, 2024, 06:06:12 AMThe cost of living in Vancouver is a killer.  I'd bet he is financially better off with the lower salary in Winnipeg.

With him already living here, vs. finding a spot in Van, $20k might not have led to him actually making more. And that third year, after the cap has gone up... in 2 years he will probably be in even a better position to write his own ticket.

Quote from: bunker on February 07, 2024, 02:01:39 AMThe other aspect is the increase these players got compared to 2023:
Collaros: 550,000 to 600,000, increase of 50,000 (assuming he does not restructure his contract)
Lawyer: 258,000 to 285,000, an increase of 17,000 (plus his suspension resulted in Bombers saving some salary in 2023)
Oliveira: 114,000 to 230,000, an increase of 116,000
Schoen: 70,000 minimum to 230,000, an increase of 160,000
Demski: 175,000 to ? 190,000 or 200,000, an increase of 15-25,000

The total increase is depending on Demski's 2024 salary, about 358,0000 to 368,000. That's alot of SMS eaten up. The cap is going up by 135,000 for 2024, but that's still about 223,000 to 233,000 that needs to come off other salaries. I would guess we save about 100,000 if we go from Hardrick at RT to a rookie American (less of a saving is we sign Gray for RT). We probably save about another 100,000 going from Jeffcoat to an entry level American like Haba. Then there are probably some savings to be had in the secondary (Houston and Rose replaced with entry level contracts) and in our Canadian special team vets being replaced by younger players, plus Jake Thomas taking a bit of a cut now that Lawson will be the starter. Also, apparently Bryant took a bit less. So I assume this is how Walters made it all work.

When you add all the numbers up it really does become a daunting task to maintain the continuity that has carried the Bombers through the last 4 seasons. The big names may be back in place but there's going to be a few worthy soldiers that won't be re-signed. Hopefully the changes do not hamstring either the O or the D sides of the ball.

Bombers are bringing in a lot of returner type players. IMO that suggests we aren't / can't re-sign Grant which would be a shame. I didn't think McCrae would be back either as the back up jack of all trades guy.

Still have to think we will sign a few more of our free agents since they haven't accepted offers elsewhere yet.
In some cases opportunities have faded elsewhere as teams made different choices.

There have been about 16 players that have decided to changes teams in the " tampering " window so far.

Here are the remaining Blue Bomber players who are headed to free agency according to information provided by Ed Tait...

16 pending free agents: safety Brandon Alexander, DEs Jackson Jeffcoat and Thiadric Hansen, DT Ricky Walker, DBs Winston Rose and Kerfalla Exumé, RB/Rec Greg McCrae, OL Geoff Gray, LBs Shayne Gauthier, Jesse Briggs, and Malik Clements, WRs Rasheed Bailey, mentioned above, Brendan O'Leary-Orange, kicker Sergio Castillo and receiver/returner Janarion Grant and QB Dakota Prukop.

Players have until Sunday to shop their services in the CFL's negotiating window before the market officially opens next Tuesday at 11 a.m.

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 07, 2024, 04:44:32 PMHere are the remaining Blue Bomber players who are headed to free agency according to information provided by Ed Tait...

16 pending free agents: safety Brandon Alexander, DEs Jackson Jeffcoat and Thiadric Hansen, DT Ricky Walker, DBs Winston Rose and Kerfalla Exumé, RB/Rec Greg McCrae, OL Geoff Gray, LBs Shayne Gauthier, Jesse Briggs, and Malik Clements, WRs Rasheed Bailey, mentioned above, Brendan O'Leary-Orange, kicker Sergio Castillo and receiver/returner Janarion Grant and QB Dakota Prukop.

Players have until Sunday to shop their services in the CFL's negotiating window before the market officially opens next Tuesday at 11 a.m.

I'd like about half of them back. I think a couple of them will be out of the CFL when all things are done and said.

The others have time to see which teams have interest and haven't agreed to new deals. Not sure that changes when we actually get to free agency?

Quote from: Blue In BC on February 07, 2024, 04:52:40 PMI'd like about half of them back. I think a couple of them will be out of the CFL when all things are done and said.

The others have time to see which teams have interest and haven't agreed to new deals. Not sure that changes when we actually get to free agency?

All the big fish will be sorted out well before FA actually opens, those left will have to take whatever they can get and consider if a minor bump is worth the hassle of switching teams.

Quote from: bunker on February 07, 2024, 02:20:54 AMApparently BC was offering Brady 250,000 plus over 3 years
https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/~2818618

From that article it sounds like Wade Miller stepped in to push Walters past the line he had previously drawn in the sand.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 07, 2024, 06:16:19 PMFrom that article it sounds like Wade Miller stepped in to push Walters past the line he had previously drawn in the sand.

That's Wade's job, Walters manages the roster, Wade intercedes for the best interest of the team.  Wondering if the $100k buffer was the key here.  Dollar for dollar match in the overage, I'm guessing Walters might get some sort of bonus if he doesn't incur a penalty there, and Wade stepped in and said "Spend the $100 and sign these guys". 

Lets hope 1 game injuries don't end up costing us a lot, and that if we do get an injury we can use the 6 game... and win through it...

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 07, 2024, 04:44:32 PMHere are the remaining Blue Bomber players who are headed to free agency according to information provided by Ed Tait...

16 pending free agents: safety Brandon Alexander, DEs Jackson Jeffcoat and Thiadric Hansen, DT Ricky Walker, DBs Winston Rose and Kerfalla Exumé, RB/Rec Greg McCrae, OL Geoff Gray, LBs Shayne Gauthier, Jesse Briggs, and Malik Clements, WRs Rasheed Bailey, mentioned above, Brendan O'Leary-Orange, kicker Sergio Castillo and receiver/returner Janarion Grant and QB Dakota Prukop.

Players have until Sunday to shop their services in the CFL's negotiating window before the market officially opens next Tuesday at 11 a.m.

looking at where we stand, I'm not sure that we have any money left, only option other than exceeding the cap may be to go with rookies. I'm hoping we can find some space for a dlineman but even that may be tough. That is likely why the long list of vet players weren't signed .
we may have to wait til later in free agency to see if there's anyone we can get for a bargain signing.

Its one thing to be bargain shopping the FA market, we do seem to get a few "team friendly" deals each year, but its another having to fill out a roster with guys who are on min wage offers, they generally aren't players with upside or potential. 

With 10 picks in the draft, and a boatload of players signed to training camp looks, lets keep our fingers crossed that we strike gold some more and get some guys on ELC's that exceed expectations and catch on to the 3 down game fast.

I'm much more hopeful that we develop players than sign retreads that may have CFL experience, but no one else wants...

DL Ricky Walker to Calgary.

https://3downnation.com/2024/02/07/sources-calgary-stampeders-agree-to-terms-with-dl-ricky-walker/

Quote from: Ridermania on February 07, 2024, 08:17:15 PMDL Ricky Walker to Calgary.

https://3downnation.com/2024/02/07/sources-calgary-stampeders-agree-to-terms-with-dl-ricky-walker/

Crap, the loss of Walker and possibly Jeffcoat could have major repercussions for the entire D. Historically without a sustained rush, the Secondary turns to mush.  Offence is golden but defence is looking questionable at this point.

Quote from: Ridermania on February 07, 2024, 08:17:15 PMDL Ricky Walker to Calgary.

https://3downnation.com/2024/02/07/sources-calgary-stampeders-agree-to-terms-with-dl-ricky-walker/

Looks like it's first food then philosophy as locker room culture only goes so far....players have short careers and need to feed their families.  I could see this day coming sooner or later.....

whats incredible is that what seemed like what we thought were huge over asks by players are now considered team friendly deals.
It will be interesting to see if any of the free agents signed go back to their original teams once the communication period is over.

I can't see any player wanting to go back to a team that did not offer them enough the first time.  Upping the offer again just because someone else committed to more is not good GMing, and after its been annouced that you are signing with a rival, does a coach/fan want you back?

None of these contracts were offered in a vacuum.  We had plenty of time to offer Walker what Calgary did, or close to it.  They obviously offered a lot more than our budget was, and we decided not to pay him what he felt was enough. 

I do not think there is a player out there that I would use the 48 hour period to keep.  If they've decided to accept another offer, good for them, we'll find another player.

We all knew this was going to happen. All our money has been spent on the O. Hall mite be happy he's not the D coordinator this season. 

I thought Calgary had decent DT's in Wiggan and Rose, now Walker, mustn't be signing someone, I'd take either  one of Rose or Wiggan here...

Quote from: dd on February 07, 2024, 11:05:04 PMI thought Calgary had decent DT's in Wiggan and Rose, now Walker, mustn't be signing someone, I'd take either  one of Rose or Wiggan here...

Wiggan is still available and a Natl. to boot, just wouldn't come cheap.  Rose has been re-signed.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 07, 2024, 11:20:43 PMWiggan is still available and a Natl. to boot, just wouldn't come cheap.  Rose has been re-signed.

Agree.

Guys, we literally let our import DT go to free agency every year. That spot is one we simply fill through recruitment to allow us to spend up on other positions.

Jeff Hamilton
@jeffkhamilton
57m
Hearing the Bombers and all-star safety Brandon Alexander are getting close to reaching a contract. Winnipeg is also in talks with K Sergio Castillo, but there's still some work to be done.

The argos and us are the only teams in the league that hasn't signed a free agent from another team. Looks like the gap will be closing between the top teams and the rest. (salary cap will do that)
It was neccessary due to the increases we needed to give out to retain key players but still concerning.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 07, 2024, 08:29:34 PMCrap, the loss of Walker and possibly Jeffcoat could have major repercussions for the entire D. Historically without a sustained rush, the Secondary turns to mush.  Offence is golden but defence is looking questionable at this point.

Massive loss but can't keep them all, a very good player

Quote from: Ridermania on February 07, 2024, 08:17:15 PMDL Ricky Walker to Calgary.

https://3downnation.com/2024/02/07/sources-calgary-stampeders-agree-to-terms-with-dl-ricky-walker/

I'm torn. It sucks losing him now, because similar to Houston it feels like this season he finally got a chance and is only going to improve. It's unfortunate that he won't be here to do it. That being said, as a run defender he did not offer as much as guys like Nevis, Richardson, Sayles or even peak Thomas. As a pass rusher, he was very good although it seemed he must've had a RTP called against him every other week.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 07, 2024, 10:52:09 PMWe all knew this was going to happen. All our money has been spent on the O. Hall mite be happy he's not the D coordinator this season. 

eh, honestly I am fine with the allocation going to offense. Defensive pieces have proven to be what the bombers specialize at scouting and developing. That being said, I am intrigued as to what guys like Bighill, Wilson and Thomas are making. Cole and Lawson seem ready to become starters, hopefully these other guys aren't holding back their development and taking a large chunk of the cap too

Quote from: bunker on February 07, 2024, 02:01:39 AMJake Thomas taking a bit of a cut now that Lawson will be the starter. Also, apparently Bryant took a bit less. So I assume this is how Walters made it all work.

Do you have a source for that?  I hadn't heard that.

The crazy thing is with Walker walking, maybe both Fatboi and Lawson start!  Maybe we start like 9 NATs this year!!  I sure hope not...  Time to pull a good IMP ELC DT out of our magic scouting hat...

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 07, 2024, 06:16:19 PMFrom that article it sounds like Wade Miller stepped in to push Walters past the line he had previously drawn in the sand.

I can see that.  That would help explain my surprise at the $230.  It's not really like KW to overspend, and I think most will agree $230 is "too much" for a RB, especially in the WFC system.

KW probably had $200 as a line in the sand, with a $180 initial offer.  The problem with advertising that you crossed your line in the sand is that every agent now knows they can maybe prod for a bit more...

Is it a smart move in the end?  Well, Brady will get more fans in the stands than Stanback, Antwi or Butler would have.  He'll also sell about 100X the merch.  And it'll be the feel-good TSN story of the decade if Brady can win the GC @home in 2025.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 08, 2024, 08:19:39 AMDo you have a source for that?  I hadn't heard that.

The crazy thing is with Walker walking, maybe both Fatboi and Lawson start!  Maybe we start like 9 NATs this year!!  I sure hope not...  Time to pull a good IMP ELC DT out of our magic scouting hat...

Not written in stone, but likely given their age and trajectories. From 3Downation:

6. Jake Thomas, Winnipeg Blue Bombers (N)

The 33-year-old has had a significantly more prolific career than anyone could have reasonably predicted as a fourth-round pick out of Acadia University way back in 2012. The native of Douglas, N.B. has played 186 games with the Blue Bombers and made 166 defensive tackles, 31 sacks, seven forced fumbles, and six fumble recoveries.

Winnipeg paid close to $135,000 to retain pending free agent defensive tackle Cameron Lawson, per source, which would seem to indicate the club plans to start him at nose tackle in 2024. If this is indeed the end of the road for Thomas, he's had an incredible career.

Cam Lawson is only 25 and he is actually a really good run stopper in the middle. I like the idea of having Fatboi back him up, but I don't want both to start. Who was that guy we brought in for the preseason last season? I thought he would make the roster for sure, but there just wasn't much time available for him.

Quote from: LXTSN on February 08, 2024, 02:04:27 PMCam Lawson is only 25 and he is actually a really good run stopper in the middle. I like the idea of having Fatboi back him up, but I don't want both to start. Who was that guy we brought in for the preseason last season? I thought he would make the roster for sure, but there just wasn't much time available for him.

Miles Fox will be the heir apparent. But we'll see what happens in TC.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 08, 2024, 08:22:59 AMI can see that.  That would help explain my surprise at the $230.  It's not really like KW to overspend, and I think most will agree $230 is "too much" for a RB, especially in the WFC system.

KW probably had $200 as a line in the sand, with a $180 initial offer.  The problem with advertising that you crossed your line in the sand is that every agent (who has an MOP or MOC client) now knows they can maybe prod for a bit more...

Is it a smart move in the end?  Well, Brady will get more fans in the stands than Stanback, Antwi or Butler would have.  He'll also sell about 100X the merch.  And it'll be the feel-good TSN story of the decade if Brady can win the GC @home in 2025.

Fixed your conjecture there... every agent knows just how much they can hold up a team for, and its not based on any lines in the sand, or Team President's leaning in, its based on what other teams are willing to offer.  If Wade doesn't step in, BO20 probably signs in BC, sure.  But at the end of the day. our team did what it needed to do.  If anything, Walters toughened his bargaining position, being willing to let our MOC walk for extra duckets. Agents know, they have to have some very special talent to get a team President to weigh in.  One, maybe two players on a team would warrant such an intervention.

Brady nets more at $30k less being in Winnipeg because Winnipeg is already home.  No renting changes, no moving, no affording BC lifestyle.  And, as much as BC is a good team, WFC has a better chance at top playoff money as well.

Quote from: bunker on February 08, 2024, 12:47:02 PM6. Jake Thomas, Winnipeg Blue Bombers (N)

The 33-year-old has had a significantly more prolific career than anyone could have reasonably predicted as a fourth-round pick out of Acadia University way back in 2012. The native of Douglas, N.B. has played 186 games with the Blue Bombers and made 166 defensive tackles, 31 sacks, seven forced fumbles, and six fumble recoveries.

Reading this, it reminded me of another Blue Bomber that exceeded expectations and carved out a record setting career... is Fatboi our new Wade Miller?  He certainly works his special teams responsibilities.  I constantly marvel at the way he gets downfield, even on made FG's... there is no doubting his heart and commitment. 

Quote from: theaardvark on February 08, 2024, 03:17:01 PMFixed your conjecture there... every agent knows just how much they can hold up a team for, and its not based on any lines in the sand, or Team President's leaning in, its based on what other teams are willing to offer.  If Wade doesn't step in, BO20 probably signs in BC, sure.  But at the end of the day. our team did what it needed to do.  If anything, Walters toughened his bargaining position, being willing to let our MOC walk for extra duckets. Agents know, they have to have some very special talent to get a team President to weigh in.  One, maybe two players on a team would warrant such an intervention.

Brady nets more at $30k less being in Winnipeg because Winnipeg is already home.  No renting changes, no moving, no affording BC lifestyle.  And, as much as BC is a good team, WFC has a better chance at top playoff money as well.

Brady's press conference yesterday answers a lot of questions and explains his process. 

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/02/07/brady-oliveira-february-7-2024/

You can almost hear AH whispering in his ear, seems like he was mentored by Harris not only in game preparation but also in contract negotiation.

Our 2024 roster is going to be quite different. Still might get a few more veterans back but we've lost some talent and key experience.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 08, 2024, 03:43:31 PMBrady's press conference yesterday answers a lot of questions and explains his process. 

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/02/07/brady-oliveira-february-7-2024/

You can almost hear AH whispering in his ear, seems like he was mentored by Harris not only in game preparation but also in contract negotiation.

Thing is....Brady had an agent working for him whereas Andrew didn't.   Brady is committed to the city and that's obvious....his NFL aspirations are behind him now and he's only focusing on bringing another cup back to the Peg!  That commitment is hard to find in this day and age and albeit Andrew mentored Brady.....he's still true to his own self first and foremost.   Personally I believe Brady is the more mature of the two despite him being younger.   Andrew's ego precedes him....and even though he won a Cup with Toronto, his legacy could have been glorious had he finished his career in Blue and Gold.....IMHO

It was mentioned that we were close in negotiations with Castillo. It would be good to get him back although a rookie with a stronger leg and lower SMS is not outside the possibility.

Would like Bailey, Gauthier and Grant back but the longer it takes the less likely that may be.

Next week will be interesting to see how many of our last 13 potential free agents we get back. I'm not expecting the Bombers to acquire any free agents from across the CFL but it could be a surprising week all around.

I suspect we have limited money for any new signings. Based on media reports, including 3Downation, you can get an idea of what most players are making for 2024. I compiled a list for the Bombers based on this. It is not going to be exact, but gives a rough sense of what Walters is working against:

1. Zach 600,000
2. Streveler 120,000+ (he has performance bonuses, but if he gets them, it likely means Zach is injured/on 6 game)
3. Rookie 3rd QB 70,000
4. Brady 230,000
5. Jonhny Augustine 100,000 (made 99,000 last year, maybe he took a small cut?)
6. Kenny Lawlyer 285,000
7. Dalton 230,000
8. Demski 200,000
9. Wolitarkski 125,000 (my estimate)
10. Rookie receiver 70,000 (assuming Baily is not back)
11. Stanley Bryant 180,000 (made 190,000 last year)
12. Kowlankowski 135,000
13. Paddy Neufeld 150,000 (my estimate)
14. Jeff Gray 130,000 (my estimate, maybe slightly high)
15. Eli 70,000
16. Dobson 70,000
17. American RT on rookie contract 70,000
Offense: 2,835,000

18. Willie Jefferson 200,000
19. Bighill 165,000
20. Lawson 135,000
21. Rookie American DT/Fox  70,000
22. Jake Thomas 100,000 (my estimate)
23. Rookie American DE/Haba 70,000
24. Kyrie Wilson 100,000
25. Kramdi 70,000
26. Brandon Alexander 100,000
27. Evan Holm 70,000
28. Nichols 140,000 (my estimate, ? too high)
29. Parker 70,000
30. Lawrence 70,000
Defense: 1,360,000

31. Returner/Grant 100,000 (less if rookie)
32. Castillo 135,000 (my estimate)
33. Punter 70,000
ST: 305,000

Plus 12 other players that play on ST or rotate in as subs/DI's: 12X 70,000= 840,000

The total comes to 5,340,000.
The cap is 5,585,000,
The practice roster accounts for another 157,500 (10 players at minimum of 15,750), leaving only 87,500 in cap remaining.

This does not take into account a number of factors, including money from last year used to pay this years salaries, possible inaccuracies in salaries (although I think the inaccuracies are probably small), injuries including paying players on the 1 game that have to be paid, and players on the 6 game where we save salary if they are replaced by someone with a lower salary, plus bonuses. So it may not be 100% accurate. Still, it paints an interesting picture, and based on it, I would be surprised if we were very active in the free agent market. There is a bit of wiggle room with the 87,500, plus being able to go over by up to 100,000, that might let us bring back a player like Bailey, but I would guess any high priced free agents from other teams are not going to be in the mix. If Zach restructured his contract, it might open up some more money also, but it does not seem to be happening.

I also thought it was interesting how much more we are spending on the offensive side of the ball.

Nice breakdown, but Lawrence is no longer with the team, and Kramdi and Hallett will be closer to $90K. I would also say Nichols more like $125K.

Yes, about $1.5M more on O. And, we all know defense wins championships.

Yes, defense does win championships, and ours has an aging MLB, at least a step slower, in the heart of it. And we need some pressure from the interior of our D line.

My concern is if biggie gets hurt, all the dough we spent on offense ain't going to matter, but i guess we cross that bridge when we get to it and you trade one of your high priced guns on offense for a MLB.

D wins championships, sure, but O sells tickets and merch.  Look at the jerseys in a game and count the O vs. D ones.

You need O to put fannies in the seats. 

The CFL pays O higher than D, across the board.  Top Olinemen out earn top Dlinemen, DB make a fraction of what WR make, even though they play head to head against each other.  Its just the way.

 

Quote from: dd on February 10, 2024, 07:30:44 PMYes, defense does win championships, and ours has an aging MLB, at least a step slower, in the heart of it. And we need some pressure from the interior of our D line.

My concern is if biggie gets hurt, all the dough we spent on offense ain't going to matter, but i guess we cross that bridge when we get to it and you trade one of your high priced guns on offense for a MLB.

I think the Bombers are sold on Fox to replace Walker. If not, Christmas from the Riders is still out there.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 08, 2024, 03:21:15 PMReading this, it reminded me of another Blue Bomber that exceeded expectations and carved out a record setting career... is Fatboi our new Wade Miller?  He certainly works his special teams responsibilities.  I constantly marvel at the way he gets downfield, even on made FG's... there is no doubting his heart and commitment. 

Quote from: Pigskin on February 10, 2024, 09:37:57 PMI think the Bombers are sold on Fox to replace Walker. If not, Christmas from the Riders is still out there.

I wonder if any relation to Ernie Christmas who was with the Bombers back in the late 80's and/or early 90's?

Quote from: Pigskin on February 10, 2024, 06:36:59 PMYes, about $1.5M more on O. And, we all know defense wins championships.

It didn't in '22 / '23 GCs.  In both cases it was 3-down-territory O's doing impossible things to win the game.  Ya, in both cases the opponent D's did shut down our last drives... but in both cases those Ds were helped by our soggy O playing ultra-conservative.  MTL's D was mixed at best against us for 3Qs.

Our D certainly won the '19 GC, that's for sure.  '21 was another mixed game that could have gone either way.  It was Nichols' fingertip that did keep us from losing, and then the miracle INT in OT.  So I guess you can call that D (though the OT O was unstoppable.)

Maybe the old adage applies a) more to the NFL, and/or b) when the weather really sucks (i.e. lots of snow)??

Our D didn't win us a championship last year and strangely we didn't upgrade it at all, in fact it got weaker with the retirement of Jeffcoat. Think the same thing will happen this Year?? I do.

Quote from: dd on February 11, 2024, 03:56:51 AMOur D didn't win us a championship last year and strangely we didn't upgrade it at all, in fact it got weaker with the retirement of Jeffcoat. Think the same thing will happen this Year?? I do.

If 66% of your SMS is in your O, then you put the game on your O.  You play your O to win, not conservative "prevent O" nonsense.  Our D has been getting steadily weaker every year since '21.  Looks to continue.  We're shifting our signing focus.  The Mafia used to be so D focused and our O was all relative nobodies (5-6 years ago) except for AH.

We lost 2 GCs due to prevent O, putting the game on our D, which clearly can't get it done.  That said, The Mafia isn't stupid: I doubt they make that mistake 3 times in a row.  Surely not...

(That said, our D did get us to the GC with a thorough disintegration of the BC O.  I put that clobbering 100% on Hall's genius.  But Calvillo was too smart and judo'd Hall for the cup.  And Thorpe stopping us just enough to give them the chance.)

Quote from: bunker on February 10, 2024, 06:19:06 PMI compiled a list for the Bombers based on this. It is not going to be exact, but gives a rough sense of what Walters is working against:

1. Zach 600,000
2. Streveler 120,000+ (he has performance bonuses, but if he gets them, it likely means Zach is injured/on 6 game)
3. Rookie 3rd QB 70,000
...

Thanks for this!  This is awesome work, great stuff to see on this forum.  I still haven't had time to pore through it, but having this list handy allows us fans to speak more intelligently regarding budgets and limits and options.

I'm keeping this list around in a file, to update as needed.  Would be worth a repost from time to time.

Can't replace a Jeffcoat easily and Adam Bighills ship has already sailed and left port.....losing Houston was also a blow and Rose is declining as well as Nicols.....Alexander never was what he was before his serious injury.   We also lost Walker who was decent....so unless we do some incredible scouting for replacements.....not an easy task.   Our O will have to be lights out and really we didn't dominate that much on O last season other than snowing the Riders at the Banjos Bowl,ll

Losing O'leary-Orange hurts our Canadian depth.....we will lose more...,so this is the flip side of signing both BO and DS to 230K contracts.....the cupboard is bare.....who's next

O'leary-Orange is not that big a loss to me. We already have Murphy here and 10 draft picks to fill out our pipeline of Canadians. WAY more worried about the D. BC seems to be stronger on Offense to me and that's the team we have to shut down if we want first. We BARELY did it last year in the regular season.

Quote from: Waffler on February 15, 2024, 07:56:23 PMO'leary-Orange is not that big a loss to me. We already have Murphy here and 10 draft picks to fill out our pipeline of Canadians. WAY more worried about the D. BC seems to be stronger on Offense to me and that's the team we have to shut down if we want first. We BARELY did it last year in the regular season.

I don't think we are finishing first this season. Our OL? Our D needs some key pieces. A guy like Bennett is going have to play a lot better then last season. I am hoping Ford, can come in and win a starting spot out of TC, and be lights out good. Bombers scouting will have to find some gems.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 15, 2024, 08:46:20 PMI don't we are finishing first this season. Our OL? Our D needs some key pieces. A guy like Bennett is going have to play a lot better then last season. I am hoping Ford, can come in and win a starting spot out of TC, and be lights out good. Bombers scouting will have to find some gems.

lol. Who is suddenly going to finish ahead of us?

Our team is 95% set. We didn't even lose as much as BC/TO/MTL.

Ya'll are taking some crazy pills.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 15, 2024, 08:46:20 PMI don't think we are finishing first this season. Our OL? Our D needs some key pieces. A guy like Bennett is going have to play a lot better then last season. I am hoping Ford, can come in and win a starting spot out of TC, and be lights out good. Bombers scouting will have to find some gems.

Like his brother Ford doesn't have a lot of playing experience, so I can't see how he is going to be that much better than DB's already on the team with a whole lot more playing experience. Being athletically gifted doesn't make up for lack of game knowledge and experience.

I am with Jesse some of you are super short sighted fans! Has our scouting department suddenly gone dormant? Is the bulk of our roster already set? lol

Take a step away from the cliff yall.

Danny Mac and Teddy will find great replace cheaper talent. They have proven that year in year out for many years now.

Also as Jesse as stated our clubs have been more scalped than us.

D will be perhaps better than last year.

We have really great coaching as well.

Ya, I'm not worried.  "First" is also a mindset.  If we expect to be there, we'll probably be there.

In the West I'd be more worried about the "bad" teams making improvements than BC being the same or better.  SSK is a wildcard: could suddenly be good.  EDM, who knows.  CGY could get their mojo back.

I won't worry about the E until we win the W division.  Then we'll worry about whether MTL is still killer with all their superstar ELCs.

I, for one, fully expect to be #1 in the W again.

My concern is the imbalance of our defense to the offence, we are spending well over a million $ more on offence than defense, by far the biggest discrepancy in the league.
We are going to have to win games by controlling the play.
 May be even tougher in the playoffs

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on February 15, 2024, 11:54:19 PMI am with Jesse some of you are super short sighted fans! Has our scouting department suddenly gone dormant? Is the bulk of our roster already set? lol

Take a step away from the cliff yall.

Danny Mac and Teddy will find great replace cheaper talent. They have proven that year in year out for many years now.

Also as Jesse as stated our clubs have been more scalped than us.

D will be perhaps better than last year.

We have really great coaching as well.

I'm pretty worried, last season I believe they had 2-1/2 new starters, Kramdi, Holm and part-time Jackson, the first two were in their second year and Jackson was an anomaly, so I'm counting him as a 1/2.  We've already seen 6-7 starters leave with the potential for 2 more if Grant and Castillo can't be re-signed, that's a huge gap to fill and CFL newcomers are going to inevitably fall short of matching their contributions.  With no money left to spend, they could be stuck with major downgrades in a few positions all season long. 

Hardrick
Gray
Jeffcoat
Walker
Bailey
Houston/Rose

In addition they've lost 9 backup/role players of which 2 retired, not all were essential but there are at least 3 on this list that could have been retained at a very modest price, Clements, Exume and Hansen.

Clements
Briggs
McCrae
Miller
BOLO
Prukop
Brown
Exume
Hansen

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 16, 2024, 03:03:16 AMSSK is a wildcard: could suddenly be good.  EDM, who knows.  CGY could get their mojo back.

SSK I fully expect to come out hot as often happens with a new regime and then fall back to middle of the pack as the season goes. EDM... it's a clown show and will continue to be fifth.  CGY could be third, depends if they get good enough quarterbacking but they are not finding the new talent like they used to in the dominant years.

BC I expect to not miss a beat on Offense and is the only team that can match us there, possibly exceed. They are coached well and can almost match us in stability. They were one dumb play, one almost miracle play from being in first last year. Rhymes not going down in time for Sean Whyte to seal it.
https://youtu.be/JHNw1ZxzNnU?t=636

Rhymes is gone but they have signed former Eagle Travis Fulgham (38 catches, 538 yards, 4 TDs in 2020). He might be better than Rhymes. The big reason I fear them is they have the motivation, Winnipeg has stood between them and the Grey Cup two years straight and I am thinking Campbell has one goal in mind, with every move he makes... build a team that can beat Winnipeg.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 16, 2024, 04:51:32 AMI'm pretty worried, last season I believe they had 2-1/2 new starters, Kramdi, Holm and part-time Jackson, the first two were in their second year and Jackson was an anomaly, so I'm counting him as a 1/2.  We've already seen 6-7 starters leave with the potential for 2 more if Grant and Castillo can't be re-signed, that's a huge gap to fill and CFL newcomers are going to inevitably fall short of matching their contributions.  With no money left to spend, they could be stuck with major downgrades in a few positions all season long. 

Hardrick
Gray
Jeffcoat
Walker
Bailey
Houston/Rose

In addition they've lost 9 backup/role players of which 2 retired, not all were essential but there are at least 3 on this list that could have been retained at a very modest price, Clements, Exume and Hansen.

Clements
Briggs
McCrae
Miller
BOLO
Prukop
Brown
Exume
Hansen

I look at position groups. Our secondary is set. Houston/Rose are leaving, but Parker, Holm, Alexander, Nichols are still here. We have Ford and McGhee to battle for the last starting spot and there will be a crop of rookies to compete for depth spots. This is something we've done successfully in every single year lately.

LBers are exactly the same. Clements left because we prioritized Cole, who will be first off the bench. Kramdi will be the presumed starter so actually gets a full TC.

DL we again followed our same philosophy of letting out DT go to FA. Replacing Jeffcoat is a new challenge, but I'm also excited to see some legitimate competition in camp as opposed to knowing who the starters are from the outset. We have Haba in the building and should bring more bodies in this year (Last year, I don't even remember a new DE in camp).

I am super excited to see Dobson and Eli have their shot to start. Replacing Hardick will be the challenge, but at a certain point in Hardricks career, replacing him is going to yield better results. New guy will have Neufeld beside him and OL is another position group that we've had to reload almost every year as players get big pay  days elsewhere, we've always been able to keep it going.

WRs, RB, and QB are all the best groups in the CFL. And we've added Streveler.

I just do not see where some people think other team's leap frogged us.

Quote from: Waffler on February 16, 2024, 11:19:40 AMSSK I fully expect to come out hot as often happens with a new regime...

It's not a new regime; it's a new coaching staff. It's still Reynolds and O'Day heading football operations, the same old guard who hasn't accomplished anything noteworthy outside of the 2019 season.

Another factor to consider: Trevor Harris will be 38 before the season starts.

Quote from: Jesse on February 16, 2024, 11:25:00 AMI look at position groups. Our secondary is set. Houston/Rose are leaving, but Parker, Holm, Alexander, Nichols are still here. We have Ford and McGhee to battle for the last starting spot and there will be a crop of rookies to compete for depth spots. This is something we've done successfully in every single year lately.

LBers are exactly the same. Clements left because we prioritized Cole, who will be first off the bench. Kramdi will be the presumed starter so actually gets a full TC.

DL we again followed our same philosophy of letting out DT go to FA. Replacing Jeffcoat is a new challenge, but I'm also excited to see some legitimate competition in camp as opposed to knowing who the starters are from the outset. We have Haba in the building and should bring more bodies in this year (Last year, I don't even remember a new DE in camp).

I am super excited to see Dobson and Eli have their shot to start. Replacing Hardick will be the challenge, but at a certain point in Hardricks career, replacing him is going to yield better results. New guy will have Neufeld beside him and OL is another position group that we've had to reload almost every year as players get big pay  days elsewhere, we've always been able to keep it going.

WRs, RB, and QB are all the best groups in the CFL. And we've added Streveler.

I just do not see where some people think other team's leap frogged us.

Well said. The sky isn't falling in mid-February.

We lost Houston and Hardrick to teams making unreasonable offers.

We potentially lost Holm to the NFL, although I think he will be back sooner than later.

We lost Walker and Jeffcoat to retirement.

We lost a number of support players that deserved raises to teams that could afford that $SMS money.

Last year we lost Couture and Sayles to other teams and went to the cup.

2022 we lost Lawler, Harris (well, not really), Stove, Castillo, Mike Jones, Darvin Adams, Darby and went to the cup.

I'm not at all worried...

Winning a cup, it seems to me, isn't so much about personnel as it is about timing -- who gets hot at the right time. When we won in 2019 it was us. Then it was the Argos followed by the Larks. Teams that got hot at the right time and weathered injuries. Timing is everything. That's why I don't sweat the wind of change in the CFL. I look for who gets hot at the right time. I'll be much more invested in November than February.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on February 16, 2024, 04:51:32 AMHouston/Rose

McCrae

Assuming they haven't signed somewhere yet, I could see Rose back for an ELCish swansong.  We'll still need some scouting find to show up to fill out our corps, and we'll be weak on backups.

McCrae: I'm surprised no one snapped him up for depth yet?  He's a great fit here, can be PRed a lot, and adds a neat dimension if a starter goes down for a couple of weeks.  I like what he brings, and can do RB backup duty if BO/JA get injured.

I guess you can always wait to see what you have in TC, and then re-sign these types of guys if they are still on the couch.

i for one hope we don't sign veteran players like rose and Mccrae, we really need to find younger talent that has an up side, that we can sign for 2 years plus. What gave us a big advantage in previous years were players like Nichols, Schoen, Holm, Walker, Eli etc. that we had at a low level contract, unfortunately most of those terms have ended. We need to find the next group in order to afford the Lawlers, Demskis etc to remain strong.