Blue Bombers Forum

Harris finally returns

Best on Best as far conferences go

Revenge game for the Blue Bombers

Jeffcoat back?

Which Zach shows up?

Does our secondary even have a chance against that WR Corp?

Can OL control Oakman, McManus and co?

Shall I go on?!

It's not Harris we need to be concerned about (He may have injured his knee against Mtl) it is Oulette who is we need to be concerned with, he is a load to bring down.

I am really concerned that;

-T.O will have great field position every time Leake touches the ball giving Chad a short field all game
-T.O will block a kick
-T.O will have a return for TD
-T.O will outkick/punt us and we will have essentially zero return game giving us a long field for Zach all day
-T.O's O-line will dominate our D-line and tire them out by the 3rd quarter
-That we will put out the same roster with the same deficiencies
-That we lose and it opens the door for BC

Yikes!

Next  :D

I think our DB corps is one of the best in the league.  Just look how almost no teams throw deep against us.  The teams that beat us are all dinking & dunking us to death.  If Hall goes into no-explosions mode for any team, it'll be this one.  He'll give up the wide out the whole night to stop the explosion.  The question is: will TOR be patient to take that out every time?  Kelly may be a lot of things, but "patient" doesn't strike me as one of them.

Our OL will get the job done in pass pro.  Not sure what will happen in the run game.  However, if we think of this as a revenge game (for GC) and chip-on-shoulder game (for just getting smoked by HAM), I think our OL/BO20 will be monster on the run (bully ball).

Our run-D has been good and getting steadily better.  I think we handle cracked egg mullet liver king guy.  Other, lesser, teams have lately, why not us?  Here's a hint WFC: if TOR gets within 25YL, they are running it to Oullette or Kelly.  Period.  Ignore the pass, because they aren't passing on 1st D.

TOR WRs haven't been anything special.  They are still mostly no-names.  None are ever good fantasy picks.  Gittens is a massive '23 disappointment.  Coxie and Philips are very hot & cold.  I never thought Daniels was any good.  TOR doesn't win by WR talent nor deep pass (Kelly) talent: they win by out-smarting and out-coaching the opponent.  Now that is what I'm scared of.  They out-smarted us all GC long, and I think they've only gotten better.

I think if our coaches/coords work their arsicles off in the bye week we have the talent to beat a full-strength TOR team.  If we say "normal Bomber ball is good enough" then we're doomed.  We have to start opening the playoff playbook, and start strategizing for each teams' weaknesses.

The #1 question though isn't any of this, it's: does TOR come to win or rotate out a few/bunch stars?  Why should they try, and risk injury?  I bet they dress their 3rd RB and he takes most snaps.  And give Kelly a quarter or a half and pull him.

We are at home and have greater motivation.  TO is a formidable team though and can win if they care enough, hard to say since they already clinched first. Will they try for 60 minutes? And if we do lose I am still ok. If we lose to BC... then I'd be very far from ok.

one of the keys that we have to get better at is our short passing game. I felt this hurt us in ly grey cup and in several games this year.
Against the cats several times Zac gets chased out of the pocket and has no outlet pass receiver near by.

We are terrific with the long ball but we seem to have an issue if the other team is able to shut down the run, then plays 2 deep zone, Unfortunately Zac isn't great with the short out throws and our offense isn't set up that way. By the time the reciever gets the ball its so slow developing it doesn't go far.
 Teams that have had success against the Argos seem to have done so with quick passes. With their pass rush there isn't a lot of time as we found out ly.
Another key is the special teams, in checking the stats i was surprised that on kickoffs Leak is only mid pack, it's on punts he excels so we need to kick away from him or even kick out of bounds deep.

Om defense Kelly loves to go down the center of the field deep to daniels or moxie..keep alexander deep to prevent this

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 18, 2023, 11:08:41 PM
-T.O will block a kick

If TOR blocks a kick I'll be the most annoying potty-mouthed fan in the stands for 15 minutes after.  It's all on film.  It's all scheme and (lazy) execution.  Those ST guys and hoggies better be in that film room studying how they are getting through the lines all week long!!  Any 4th Q FG needs to have 6 actual hoggies on the line; any DLmen need to be outside the ends.  Castillo will just have to make his kicks so miss-tackling isn't a concern.

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 18, 2023, 11:08:41 PM
-T.O's O-line will dominate our D-line and tire them out by the 3rd quarter

Not it our OL/BO20 go into bully-ball mode and we control TOP.  That's the key to not gassing our DL.  DL has to be fresh to stop the Ouellette in the 4th.  I bet we finally dress both Jeffcoat and Haba, with Cole staying home.

Quote from: Waffler on September 18, 2023, 11:39:02 PM
We are at home and have greater motivation.  TO is a formidable team though and can win if they care enough, hard to say since they already clinched first. Will they try for 60 minutes? And if we do lose I am still ok. If we lose to BC... then I'd be very far from ok.

Our IGF record is near perfect and a huge boon for us in this game.  Might it get louder than the BB?  I think so.  TOR hasn't played @IGF since 2021, have they?  They have no idea what noise awaits.  We're +3 or +6dB up on Mosaic, easily.

I think if we cared enough we can beat them too.  I think part of our problem this year is not caring enough, from all members of WFC.  So I don't care if TOR cares, I care if we care.

I think a win at home vs TOR is critical to our final W standings and GC path.  If we lose to TOR we're going to go into BC Place and lose there too.  And then we're stuck getting beat up on by SSK @IGF in WSF, whether we win or not.  We need the confidence and momentum that beating a full or near-full strength TOR will bring.

Oh Tecno you are just to much man! ::)

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 18, 2023, 11:48:14 PM
Our IGF record is near perfect and a huge boon for us in this game.  Might it get louder than the BB?  I think so.  TOR hasn't played @IGF since 2021, have they?  They have no idea what noise awaits.  We're +3 or +6dB up on Mosaic, easily.

I think if we cared enough we can beat them too.  I think part of our problem this year is not caring enough, from all members of WFC.  So I don't care if TOR cares, I care if we care.

I think a win at home vs TOR is critical to our final W standings and GC path.  If we lose to TOR we're going to go into BC Place and lose there too.  And then we're stuck getting beat up on by SSK @IGF in WSF, whether we win or not.  We need the confidence and momentum that beating a full or near-full strength TOR will bring.

Our IGF record didn?t help us out against BC when they embarrassed us at home early in the season.

We d better come out firing on all 3 phases or we ll be taken to the woodshed again for another whuppin!!

Holding my breath that the god Collaros shows up as I know we ll be outplayed in the ST aspect of the game so we need him at his best, none of this pick six in the first series crap.

Quote from: dd on September 19, 2023, 02:05:56 AM
Our IGF record didn?t help us out against BC when they embarrassed us at home early in the season.

We d better come out firing on all 3 phases or we ll be taken to the woodshed again for another whuppin!!

Holding my breath that the god Collaros shows up as I know we ll be outplayed in the ST aspect of the game so we need him at his best, none of this pick six in the first series crap.

really every side tor the friggin ball, ALL 3 SIDES, needs to improve to beat TO. I think and I hope they will.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on September 19, 2023, 01:21:34 AM
Oh Tecno you are just to much man! ::)

I callz them like I seez them!

Quote from: dd on September 19, 2023, 02:05:56 AM
Our IGF record didn?t help us out against BC when they embarrassed us at home early in the season.

IGF losses: 1 (to first/second best team in W)
Away losses: 3 (to garbage sub-500 teams)

I like our IGF odds a lot better.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on September 19, 2023, 03:05:13 AM
really every side tor the friggin ball, ALL 3 SIDES, needs to improve to beat TO. I think and I hope they will.

I do too!  I'm pretty confident for Sep 29.  And if we win I'm confident for @BC too.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on September 19, 2023, 03:05:13 AM
really every side tor the friggin ball, ALL 3 SIDES, needs to improve to beat TO. I think and I hope they will.

ST doesn't have the horses to play a great game, we can only hope a few key players like Grant return after the bye, but I suspect none of them are ready yet. Worse case scenario, a loss against the Argos sets them up for a win next time they meet.

I am leaning now to Argos playing this as an exhibition. Win the first quarter or first half with their starters and they will go home happy. No sense for them to keep their starters in for a knock down drag out fight that buys them nothing. If we play 4 quarters we will win it.

Its going to be fun with a soon to be sold out crowd. It will be another loud crowd and the Argos will struggle with the noise. The Argos are not used to playing with crowd noise.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 18, 2023, 11:37:15 PM
I think our DB corps is one of the best in the league.  Just look how almost no teams throw deep against us.  The teams that beat us are all dinking & dunking us to death.  If Hall goes into no-explosions mode for any team, it'll be this one.  He'll give up the wide out the whole night to stop the explosion.  The question is: will TOR be patient to take that out every time?  Kelly may be a lot of things, but "patient" doesn't strike me as one of them.

Our OL will get the job done in pass pro.  Not sure what will happen in the run game.  However, if we think of this as a revenge game (for GC) and chip-on-shoulder game (for just getting smoked by HAM), I think our OL/BO20 will be monster on the run (bully ball).

Our run-D has been good and getting steadily better.  I think we handle cracked egg mullet liver king guy.  Other, lesser, teams have lately, why not us?  Here's a hint WFC: if TOR gets within 25YL, they are running it to Oullette or Kelly.  Period.  Ignore the pass, because they aren't passing on 1st D.

TOR WRs haven't been anything special.  They are still mostly no-names.  None are ever good fantasy picks.  Gittens is a massive '23 disappointment.  Coxie and Philips are very hot & cold.  I never thought Daniels was any good.  TOR doesn't win by WR talent nor deep pass (Kelly) talent: they win by out-smarting and out-coaching the opponent.  Now that is what I'm scared of.  They out-smarted us all GC long, and I think they've only gotten better.

I think if our coaches/coords work their arsicles off in the bye week we have the talent to beat a full-strength TOR team.  If we say "normal Bomber ball is good enough" then we're doomed.  We have to start opening the playoff playbook, and start strategizing for each teams' weaknesses.

The #1 question though isn't any of this, it's: does TOR come to win or rotate out a few/bunch stars?  Why should they try, and risk injury?  I bet they dress their 3rd RB and he takes most snaps.  And give Kelly a quarter or a half and pull him.

Could all be true....but they have Leake and a great record-breaking return game, they have arguably the best kicker and cover teams and they have dominated other teams in special teams. Chad has been sacked once in 6 games and rarely overly pressured. We don't have the horses to compete with that...all things offense and defence are really close, we have the advantage of home field, but we lack in overall special teams, and we insist on only 6 D-lineman and by the end of games they are exhausted.

I fully expect it will be a heck of game and some great back and forth, but that we will have a longer field all day and they will have a shorter field to play all day due to special teams and at the end they will pull away as our D-line will be gassed...

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 19, 2023, 01:54:04 PM
Could all be true....but they have Leake and a great record-breaking return game, they have arguably the best kicker and cover teams and they have dominated other teams in special teams. Chad has been sacked once in 6 games and rarely overly pressured. We don't have the horses to compete with that...all things offense and defence are really close, we have the advantage of home field, but we lack in overall special teams, and we insist on only 6 D-lineman and by the end of games they are exhausted.

I fully expect it will be a heck of game and some great back and forth, but that we will have a longer field all day and they will have a shorter field to play all day due to special teams and at the end they will pull away as our D-line will be gassed...

My word the Argos are loaded, Leake is outstanding but this RB Deonta McMahon they just pulled off their PR looks extremely dangerous, the Bombers will have to keep their eye on him everytime he steps on the field.  If he gets free in open space it won't be pretty.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 18, 2023, 11:37:15 PM
I think our DB corps is one of the best in the league.  Just look how almost no teams throw deep against us.  The teams that beat us are all dinking & dunking us to death.  If Hall goes into no-explosions mode for any team, it'll be this one.  He'll give up the wide out the whole night to stop the explosion.  The question is: will TOR be patient to take that out every time?  Kelly may be a lot of things, but "patient" doesn't strike me as one of them.

Our OL will get the job done in pass pro.  Not sure what will happen in the run game.  However, if we think of this as a revenge game (for GC) and chip-on-shoulder game (for just getting smoked by HAM), I think our OL/BO20 will be monster on the run (bully ball).

Our run-D has been good and getting steadily better.  I think we handle cracked egg mullet liver king guy.  Other, lesser, teams have lately, why not us?  Here's a hint WFC: if TOR gets within 25YL, they are running it to Oullette or Kelly.  Period.  Ignore the pass, because they aren't passing on 1st D.

TOR WRs haven't been anything special.  They are still mostly no-names.  None are ever good fantasy picks.  Gittens is a massive '23 disappointment.  Coxie and Philips are very hot & cold.  I never thought Daniels was any good.  TOR doesn't win by WR talent nor deep pass (Kelly) talent: they win by out-smarting and out-coaching the opponent.  Now that is what I'm scared of.  They out-smarted us all GC long, and I think they've only gotten better.

I think if our coaches/coords work their arsicles off in the bye week we have the talent to beat a full-strength TOR team.  If we say "normal Bomber ball is good enough" then we're doomed.  We have to start opening the playoff playbook, and start strategizing for each teams' weaknesses.

The #1 question though isn't any of this, it's: does TOR come to win or rotate out a few/bunch stars?  Why should they try, and risk injury?  I bet they dress their 3rd RB and he takes most snaps.  And give Kelly a quarter or a half and pull him.

I don't think this game really matters to TOR - they have locked up the East and will probably field some starters and some backups etc. What happens in this game for TOR does not really matter. Only matters if they see the Bombers in the Cup. As for the Bombers they need the win if they want to keep working on  home field advantage in the WF. So if the Bombers put on a good show and handle TOR easy - does not mean a thing IMHO.

I wish the Argos still had something to play for. Would be much more entertaining watch a full-on dogfight. If we clobber them, it will just be all "meh Toronto didn't even care about this game, wait til playoffs and then they'll actually turn it on".

Quote from: blue_or_die on September 19, 2023, 05:47:44 PM
I wish the Argos still had something to play for. Would be much more entertaining watch a full-on dogfight. If we clobber them, it will just be all "meh Toronto didn't even care about this game, wait til playoffs and then they'll actually turn it on".

It is a downer no doubt. But, we need  the win whatever the circumstances and however the game plays out. It will not be easy. I think Toronto will bring everything for this one.

id like to see the argos coast all the way, then kick their butts in the grey cup. If we beat them fine, but Id be very surprised if Buck shows them anything different for this game. He tends to play things close to the vest. I do think we will play with intensity and I'm not sure what the argos will bring. However if we can put pressure on Kelly early they may not play him the whole game

Quote from: Pete on September 19, 2023, 06:43:40 PM
id like to see the argos coast all the way, then kick their butts in the grey cup. If we beat them fine, but Id be very surprised if Buck shows them anything different for this game. He tends to play things close to the vest. I do think we will play with intensity and I'm not sure what the argos will bring. However if we can put pressure on Kelly early they may not play him the whole game

Without Jeffcoat highly unlikely the Bomber D-line can harass Kelly often, Argos also have a very good O-line and have only given up 12 sacks this season vs. the Bombers at 28.  Their secondary is also very good, if Zach relies overly on the long ball game to move the sticks, he will be hooped.  Pound for pound the Argos may have the better roster.

Thats what blitzes are for. Even if he completes some passes, make him pay. And put that thought in his head like we've done to Fajardo and others

Toronto will run the ball. Stop the run and don't let their qb run the ball.  His passing isn't the greatest . If rather contain and stop the running game. Bombers aren't the same at linebacker and defensive backs also. Letting them get 10 and 15 yard passes. No other teams are allowing that

Quote from: buckzumhoff on September 19, 2023, 07:48:47 PM
Toronto will run the ball. Stop the run and don't let their qb run the ball.  His passing isn't the greatest . If rather contain and stop the running game. Bombers aren't the same at linebacker and defensive backs also. Letting them get 10 and 15 yard passes. No other teams are allowing that

Probably not a well known fact but Chad Kelly first came to prominence when he won the national Punt, Pass and Kick competition 4 times as a teenager, so fair to say he is athletically gifted and can throw the ball quite well.

Luckily we'll be able to see what TOR's likely garbage-season plans are this Sat when we see who they field vs HAM.  If they're playing a lot of B and C backups then that's what they'll bring to WPG.

TOR is in a bit of a bind.  If the country is gauging the GC odds based on this game then TOR either brings 100% A-game and does everything to win, or they bring a clearly inferior B-team and say "look we aren't trying" and lose.  The worst from a face, rep, and morale standpoint would be to bring your mostly-A team, with a couple of resters staying home, and then lose.  Because then many will think they flat out aren't as good as WPG.

No matter what TOR brings, I think Buck et al are bringing their A-game and opening up the playbook.  We need to beat an A-team TOR, or we need to completely lay waste to a B-team TOR.  There is no option to lose.

I think TOR will do the normal garbage-season "superstars get 1Q" thing, though much of their D will play full-game, with some #1s staying home for each game in rotation.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 19, 2023, 10:56:03 PM
Luckily we'll be able to see what TOR's likely garbage-season plans are this Sat when we see who they field vs HAM.  If they're playing a lot of B and C backups then that's what they'll bring to WPG.

They can't play backups the rest of the season. I think first half is for the starters, just enough to stay sharp and then anyone and everyone in the second half. Like an exhibition game the starters play until they feel they have accomplished enough and no more.

We keep talking about us vs. T.O in the Grey cup. T.O will have to go through either Hammy or Mtrl. and if it is Mtrl. it's really hard to win, back to back, to back against a single team..... we will have to go through Sask. or BC and us shoot they way we have played the last number of weeks we may have to go through both, and well both of them beat us this year

Let's focus on one week at a time really comes true this year we may not host the West Final and it's a much harder route to win three than it is two....

Realistically I just don't see us winning this game regardless if they play vanilla or b's to the wall.....they have a great O-line, Chad was sacked once in the last 6 games and without pressure Hall's defence always struggles. They have a "bullyball" rusher in Oulette and we roster minimal D-line, and I don't care how good they are fatigue is real and no offense but Bennet and Schmekel are not strong enough pieces.....

Then our special teams have consistently given us a long field, they have a great kicker/punter....Additionally they have Leake who is a record breaking phenom at returning vs. our incredibly weak coverage teams. Against mediocre returners teams start close to mid field, I expect they will be even better than that all game.

Zach bounces back...so far... so I expect him to have a big game, but it won't be enough I fear.

Quote from: Waffler on September 19, 2023, 11:07:07 PM
They can't play backups the rest of the season. I think first half is for the starters, just enough to stay sharp and then anyone and everyone in the second half. Like an exhibition game the starters play until they feel they have accomplished enough and no more.

CFL rosters aren't big enough to do this.

The Argonauts have transformed into Juggernauts and Chad Kelly is playing MOP football.    However they just managed to stave off OT against the Als on the last play of the game by blocking a FG attempt to tie the game.  Can they be beaten?   Certainly, however they are showing no real weaknesses across the board where the Bombers are glaringly deficient on special teams and our bend but don't break D will not be good enough against their offence.

Zach will have pressure and how he escapes it will determine whether or not he can generate enough offence to keep pace with them.
The Argos improved their already good team from last year picking up more talented pieces along the way whereas we more or less "stayed pat" which I mentioned early in the season.    Adding to this factor is Zach's inconsistent play and 18 picks and there's the recipe for failure over the long haul.   We lost against the weakest teams in the CFL on 3 occasions and were embarrassed at home by BC in front of our fans.

If we somehow manage to beat the Argos on the 29th I'll be happy and surprised.    Win or lose, the battle for first in the West will come a week later in BC and that game will tell all as to the state of our team heading into the playoffs.

It's going to be interesting. I do feel the Bombers can defeat the Argos even if all their starters play. The key is stopping their  run game and doing well with ours.

Toronto added Picket and Orimolade to their defense, two potential all-stars .Leake (another all-star)  and Coxie on offence which was an upgrade.
We replaced starters Leggs with Castillo, Taylor  with Holms , and Sayles with  Walker. Really Castillo is the only outside addition.
This is an obvious advantage to the argos having added 3 potential all-stars and toss in Kelly who appears to be an upgrade over MBT because of mobility and its intimidating. The only chink is they aren't as deep in the qb position.
Players that could make a difference to us that weren't available ly are; A healthy  Wilson and Jeffcoat (Assuming he is healthy for playoffs) along with  a big xfactor in Kenny Lawler
I am disappointed we haven't tried to improve vs status quo. Players that look like we needed to bring in stronger  competition for include, Briggs, Miller (injury related and age), Darby, Burtenshaw and a replacement for Sayles, and a backup for grant. I know some of these are hindsight, but most were predictable or obvious early in the season

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 20, 2023, 03:56:36 PM
It's going to be interesting. I do feel the Bombers can defeat the Argos even if all their starters play. The key is stopping their  run game and doing well with ours.

I feel it's field position and turnovers. STs have to be better. ZC8 can not give them any gifts.

Their starters are going to play. Toronto isn't going to gear down with 6 games and a bye to go. They've only played 12 games. They going to play safe, restful football for 6 weeks, take a bye and then play the East Final? I don't think so.

I agree with the Golden Hat. They will be playing their starters tomorrow. Did nine hear if Harris is injured or not? If not he will spare Ouelette more than usual if he is hurt he will not play at all. Nothing wrong Ouelette getting more wear on those tires as well.

Harris is limited so they'll likely rest him so he can play against winnipeg. Which is fine by me, Oullette is much more dangerous right now

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 20, 2023, 08:13:28 PM
Their starters are going to play. Toronto isn't going to gear down with 6 games and a bye to go. They've only played 12 games. They going to play safe, restful football for 6 weeks, take a bye and then play the East Final? I don't think so.

It's not that "their starters" aren't going to play, it's that now they can rotate onto the IR 3-6 players each week to get them healthy, give them time off, and maybe protect against injury vs good opponents.  And the superstar starters in vulnerable positions (QBs, RBs, maybe WRs) will probably play only 1 half of football (again, in a rotational way inter-week).

Quote from: Jesse on September 20, 2023, 02:14:38 PM
CFL rosters aren't big enough to do this.

45 man AR?  24 guys needed on field for O/D?  Ya, you can basically have your starters play 1Q and then sit and there's enough B team players to play the game.  Ya, rotation, ST, yada... my point is at the very least you can play it like a last-game-of-season or PS game, no problem.  And you can do that for weeks.  In fact, it's doubly advantageous as you get valuable live reps for your backups.

If you factor in the PR too (another 10 guys?) you can really get your superstar starters a lot of rest.

I will be shocked if TOR isn't changing 3-6 AR players every single week, inserting no-name players IN with no real injuries to the OUT guys.

Imagine if they go out there like it's business as usual and Kelly or Oullette get a season-ender?  Fans would go apoplectic.

Quote from: Pete on September 20, 2023, 09:12:29 PM
Harris is limited so they'll likely rest him so he can play against winnipeg. Which is fine by me, Oullette is much more dangerous right now

Oullette is nursing some wounds the last few weeks.  He's taking some major punishment and often gets up with Schoen-like facial expressions (which is normal for Schoen, not for Oullette).

Oullette hasn't been anything special lately, and I think we can stuff the TOR run for 3Q.  How well our O does and how tired our D is will determine whether he gets a ton of yards in the 4th.  Remember, Oullette hasn't faced us with Wilson in the line-up since before the '22 GC.

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 20, 2023, 12:21:59 PM
We keep talking about us vs. T.O in the Grey cup. T.O will have to go through either Hammy or Mtrl. and if it is Mtrl. it's really hard to win, back to back, to back against a single team...

Realistically I just don't see us winning this game regardless if they play vanilla or b's to the wall.

You sayer of Nay.  We're coming off the bye, and we're monster after the bye because our coordinators actually come up with something new on byes.  The guys will be majorly shoulder-chipped from losing to sad sack HAM.  And we're playing at home.  I think if our whole crew wakes up we could be even a full-strength full-on TOR.  When they arrive with 3-6 big players resting on the IR, it may be a bloodbath.

MTL?  MTL's a joke.  Cody can't do anything.  MTL only got as far as they did last week because TOR took MTL as seriously as we took HAM.  TOR will paste MTL in EDF.  MTL will be lucky to get 1 TD.  The E, sans TOR, will be a major joke come post-season.

Quote from: Pete on September 20, 2023, 09:12:29 PM
Harris is limited so they'll likely rest him so he can play against winnipeg. Which is fine by me, Oullette is much more dangerous right now

AH took a couple of big hits in there last game, even though he only handled the ball 3 times. I think your right they will probably rest AH.

This game will come down to Collaros and whether or not he throws and picks or more importantly pick sixes. In the past he protected the football well, but he?s certainly struggled  this season, I don?t know how many pick sixes he?s thrown but it?s been a lot and it seems when he throws one his entire game goes for a crap and we lose.

Quote from: Pigskin on September 20, 2023, 10:03:50 PM
AH took a couple of big hits in there last game, even though he only handled the ball 3 times. I think your right they will probably rest AH.

And wouldn't that just represent the ultimate fail of the CFL schedule makers?

A Ring of Honour candidate of the Bombers, leaves the club in the twilight of his career, immediately wins the Grey Cup with his new club, but never actually plays for his new team in Winnipeg? The CFL bemoans their lack of contact and ways to drive up interest, and then drops the ball on the easy, obvious things every single time.

Harris in Winnipeg - never happened, BLM in Calgary - never happened, Grey Cup re-match to start the season - never happens.

This is free marketing and they just continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

Quote from: Jesse on September 21, 2023, 10:56:05 AM
And wouldn't that just represent the ultimate fail of the CFL schedule makers?

A Ring of Honour candidate of the Bombers, leaves the club in the twilight of his career, immediately wins the Grey Cup with his new club, but never actually plays for his new team in Winnipeg? The CFL bemoans their lack of contact and ways to drive up interest, and then drops the ball on the easy, obvious things every single time.

Harris in Winnipeg - never happened, BLM in Calgary - never happened, Grey Cup re-match to start the season - never happens.

This is free marketing and they just continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

At the very least, do the Grey Cup rematch as the home opener with the banner unveiling. I remember that used to be done every time and they just stopped for whatever reason. Probably to do with the fact that they took away non-div games for more in-div games. How good an idea that is is debatable, but nonetheless, it's still possible to make that happen as a tradition. I for one would have loved to march into BMO on W1 and beat their *** as revenge to numb the pain of that loss.

Quote from: Jesse on September 21, 2023, 10:56:05 AM
And wouldn't that just represent the ultimate fail of the CFL schedule makers?

A Ring of Honour candidate of the Bombers, leaves the club in the twilight of his career, immediately wins the Grey Cup with his new club, but never actually plays for his new team in Winnipeg? The CFL bemoans their lack of contact and ways to drive up interest, and then drops the ball on the easy, obvious things every single time.

Harris in Winnipeg - never happened, BLM in Calgary - never happened, Grey Cup re-match to start the season - never happens.

This is free marketing and they just continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

Not sure the Bombers need to be the focus of CFL marketing. 

Quote from: theaardvark on September 21, 2023, 01:57:53 PM
Not sure the Bombers need to be the focus of CFL marketing. 

You market the storylines and right now the Bombers are an easy one to sell.

Quote from: theaardvark on September 21, 2023, 01:57:53 PM
Not sure the Bombers need to be the focus of CFL marketing. 

It has nothing to do with the Bombers, it's taking advantage of storylines to maximize the amount of people watching you product, maximizing the content your league can create.

Grey Cup re-matches/banner raising, Harris returning to Winnipeg, BLM going to Calgary are simply the obvious missed opportunities over the least couple of years.

Quote from: Jesse on September 21, 2023, 05:28:36 PM
It has nothing to do with the Bombers, it's taking advantage of storylines to maximize the amount of people watching you product, maximizing the content your league can create.

Grey Cup re-matches/banner raising, Harris returning to Winnipeg, BLM going to Calgary are simply the obvious missed opportunities over the least couple of years.

In their defence schedule making is not an easy job considering the complexity of variables that go into it.  A GC rematch to kick off the season is a no-brainer, but accommodating games for specific players relation to former teams is adding an extra variable that is too minute to take into consideration.

Quote from: Jesse on September 21, 2023, 10:56:05 AM
And wouldn't that just represent the ultimate fail of the CFL schedule makers?

A Ring of Honour candidate of the Bombers, leaves the club in the twilight of his career, immediately wins the Grey Cup with his new club, but never actually plays for his new team in Winnipeg? The CFL bemoans their lack of contact and ways to drive up interest, and then drops the ball on the easy, obvious things every single time.

Harris in Winnipeg - never happened, BLM in Calgary - never happened, Grey Cup re-match to start the season - never happens.

This is free marketing and they just continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

No we were thinking he would rest this weekend so he could play next weekend against the Bombers.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 21, 2023, 06:48:46 PM
In their defence schedule making is not an easy job considering the complexity of variables that go into it.  A GC rematch to kick off the season is a no-brainer, but accommodating games for specific players relation to former teams is adding an extra variable that is too minute to take into consideration.

I have zero sympathy. This sounds like a really lame excuse, tbh. A couple per year may have this level of significance. The last couple of years we haven't even gotten a home and home against every team. This is not too much to ask for. Especially when it can only benefit the CFL.

Quote from: Pigskin on September 21, 2023, 07:02:07 PM
No we were thinking he would rest this weekend so he could play next weekend against the Bombers.

I more meant that Harris never played here last year. He's an overpayed back up this year. The anticipation of his return has taken a noticeable hit this year.

Game is sold out...

Quote from: Jesse on September 21, 2023, 07:10:33 PM
I have zero sympathy. This sounds like a really lame excuse, tbh. A couple per year may have this level of significance. The last couple of years we haven't even gotten a home and home against every team. This is not too much to ask for. Especially when it can only benefit the CFL.

I more meant that Harris never played here last year. He's an overpayed back up this year. The anticipation of his return has taken a noticeable hit this year.

Even if he doesn't play, Bomber fans can still give Harris a nice ovation before the game.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 22, 2023, 03:56:37 AM
Even if he doesn't play, Bomber fans can still give Harris a nice ovation before the game.

To be honest, during the season, I would not give him a "nice ovation" before the game.  You better believe he is coming in with a view to hammer the Bombers in our house.  Why in the world would anyone want to cheer him on in that regard?  Save the praise and appreciation for when the season is over, when he likely retires.  He deserves credit for his time with the Bombers for sure, but right now he is the opposition - a member of a team we want to, and need to, beat.

Quote from: ModAdmin on September 22, 2023, 06:16:59 AM
To be honest, during the season, I would not give him a "nice ovation" before the game.  You better believe he is coming in with a view to hammer the Bombers in our house.  Why in the world would anyone want to cheer him on in that regard?  Save the praise and appreciation for when the season is over, when he likely retires.  He deserves credit for his time with the Bombers for sure, but right now he is the opposition - a member of a team we want to, and need to, beat.

This^

Quote from: ModAdmin on September 22, 2023, 06:16:59 AM
To be honest, during the season, I would not give him a "nice ovation" before the game.  You better believe he is coming in with a view to hammer the Bombers in our house.  Why in the world would anyone want to cheer him on in that regard?  Save the praise and appreciation for when the season is over, when he likely retires.  He deserves credit for his time with the Bombers for sure, but right now he is the opposition - a member of a team we want to, and need to, beat.

I?m not a fan of Harris but you?re off the mark here.  Longtime stars always get their moment when they return to this city, whether it?s playing on the opposing team or not.  Jets do it all the time and I would expect no different in this case.

Quote from: bluengold204 on September 22, 2023, 01:05:44 PM
I?m not a fan of Harris but you?re off the mark here.  Longtime stars always get their moment when they return to this city, whether it?s playing on the opposing team or not.  Jets do it all the time and I would expect no different in this case.

It's a personal opinion.  To me, during the season, there are the Blue Bombers (my team) and the other 8 teams are the enemy/opposition. I don't recognize them in any positive way when we play them.

Quote from: ModAdmin on September 22, 2023, 06:16:59 AM
To be honest, during the season, I would not give him a "nice ovation" before the game.  You better believe he is coming in with a view to hammer the Bombers in our house.  Why in the world would anyone want to cheer him on in that regard?  Save the praise and appreciation for when the season is over, when he likely retires.  He deserves credit for his time with the Bombers for sure, but right now he is the opposition - a member of a team we want to, and need to, beat.

That's petty, unlikely he will be able to play with his recent injury, much less hammer them.  The Bomber rise started years before Zach's arrival and both Harris and Nichols were key components, each deserves to be acknowledged for their contribution.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 22, 2023, 04:05:11 PM
That's petty, unlikely he will be able to play with his recent injury, much less hammer them.  The Bomber rise started years before Zach's arrival and both Harris and Nichols were key components, each deserves to be acknowledged for their contribution.

Petty in your opinion, not in my opinion.  And we are all entitled to our opinion.  Even if Harris is not playing, you can bet the farm he wants his team to hammer us.  Certainly Harris deserves to be acknowledged but not at a very important game like this.

Harris has been placed on the 6 game IR. That's a sad outcome. He may have played his last game in the CFL?

My usual question this week is will we potentially see any of Hansen, Miller or Grant as possibly being healthy. Does Jeffcoat play or was his week off more serious than we knew?

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 22, 2023, 05:13:57 PM
Harris has been placed on the 6 game IR. That's a sad outcome. He may have played his last game in the CFL?

My usual question this week is will we potentially see any of Hansen, Miller or Grant as possibly being healthy. Does Jeffcoat play or was his week off more serious than we knew?

That's what I thought, hope he comes to Wpg. even in a foot cast and gets acknowledged by MOST of the fans.

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 22, 2023, 05:13:57 PM
Harris has been placed on the 6 game IR. That's a sad outcome. He may have played his last game in the CFL?

My usual question this week is will we potentially see any of Hansen, Miller or Grant as possibly being healthy. Does Jeffcoat play or was his week off more serious than we knew?

Miller hasn't even been running sprints so he likely a ways off, IF he returns. According to O Shea we will see Grant before the end of the season, so unlikely for Argo game. Hansen was put on 6 game again so unlikely.

As far as Jeffcoat, we need him completely healthy for BC game which is the critical one, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's rested unless he's 100%.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 22, 2023, 05:53:45 PM
That's what I thought, hope he comes to Wpg. even in a foot cast and gets acknowledged by MOST of the fans.

I assume that the club will acknowledge Harris, and I'll offer a polite golf clap, but I agree with ModAdmin.

Bring Andrew back for his ROH honour day or other special day after he's retired. Right now, he's an Argo.

Also, one more curse for the schedule makers for not scheduling his return at the beginning of last year. Because now it will never happen.

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 22, 2023, 05:13:57 PM
Harris has been placed on the 6 game IR. That's a sad outcome. He may have played his last game in the CFL?

My usual question this week is will we potentially see any of Hansen, Miller or Grant as possibly being healthy. Does Jeffcoat play or was his week off more serious than we knew?

I am wondering how many Bomber fans were going to the game, just to see AH33 one last time.

Argo game is officially sold out.Well done Bomber fans. Now lets win this game!

Quote from: Pigskin on September 22, 2023, 06:23:36 PM
I am wondering how many Bomber fans were going to the game, just to see AH33 one last time.

not that many I beckon. 2 years removed from and he plays so sparingly let alone if he plays at all?

Quote from: Pigskin on September 22, 2023, 06:23:36 PM
I am wondering how many Bomber fans were going to the game, just to see AH33 one last time.

I suspect 0-10.  Maybe some family members that?s about it.

Quote from: bluengold204 on September 22, 2023, 07:06:01 PM
I suspect 0-10.  Maybe some family members that?s about it.

that's cold man...cold...I am not sure you are wrong though.

Quote from: The Zipp on September 22, 2023, 07:39:06 PM
that's cold man...cold...I am not sure you are wrong though.

Nah he would be more correct. The fans that are going for him are already going because the Blue Bombers rule and want to watch a trouncing. Harris? family friends football community will be there as well.

My point is Harris fans were already planning on going because it is a Blue Bomber game.

Darren Cameron
@Darren_Cameron

15m
With the results of tonight's games, the #Bombers have clinched a home playoff game for a third straight season.

Game will be either Saturday, November 4th (WSF) or Saturday, November 11th (WF). 5:30pm CT kickoff for both dates. #ForTheW

Quote from: The Zipp on September 22, 2023, 07:39:06 PM
that's cold man...cold...I am not sure you are wrong though.

I don't see it as cold either. He's just not really a part of what makes this a marquee match-up*.

*Or what would have been a marquee-match up if it was earlier in the season.

Despite my personal disagreement with Harris leaving us, I do hope he is in attention at game and is officially recognized by the Bombers.   He won't be able to affect the outcome of the game if he's not in uniform so give him a cheer for old times sake.   He was a key player acquisition and was instrumental in our resurgence as a perennial Cup contender.

It is like the league is protecting the Argos from playing us much.  :D
Or are they indeed?

With Harris on the 6 game, no reason not to honour him... he has announced his retirement.

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on September 23, 2023, 01:39:12 PM
Despite my personal disagreement with Harris leaving us, I do hope he is in attention at game and is officially recognized by the Bombers.   He won't be able to affect the outcome of the game if he's not in uniform so give him a cheer for old times sake.   He was a key player acquisition and was instrumental in our resurgence as a perennial Cup contender.

I don't expect the Bombers to officially recognize Harris until after his retirement, but if he's on the sidelines at all and waves to the crowd, it would be nice if they responded in a positive manner. 

Quote from: theaardvark on September 23, 2023, 03:36:54 PM
With Harris on the 6 game, no reason not to honour him... he has announced his retirement.

thanks for announcing I did not know that. Well if he is not playing I?ll gladly stand and clap. If he was playing I?d wait till he was done.

It seems to me it would be more appropriate and meaningful if the Bombers honoured Harris after his official retirement when he is no longer connected to another team.  I don't see any advantage to do it while he is part of another team and where his loyalty currently lies.

Having said that, people can cheer for whoever they want but it shouldn't be an "official" recognition.

The classy thing to do,would be to acknowledge he?s announced his retirement and congratulate him on an outstanding career. It would give fans a chance to cheer him one more time in Winnipeg, where he?s from and did so much for this club, even if he was playing but especially if he?s not playing, what?s the harm!? Like I said it would be the classy thing to do

Harris will get an extremely warm reception and this is an awesome time to honor one of the best ever, we owe him a great deal

Re: AH, uh, no, I don't want to acknowledge the guy at all. It's not like he bled blue and gold his whole career. He preferred to play elsewhere where he could be a star and only came here when we were on the upswing. He then got caught using PEDs and embarrassed himself and this team, and then got in a contract squabble and bailed on us for another up and coming team. The guy's a traitor and a cherry picker. If we honour him I'll turn off the channel until it's over.

As for Toronto, I'd like nothing better than to lay a beat-down on that team and plant a big old seed of doubt in their minds as to whether or not they can beat us in a Grey Cup rematch. They're a very talented group of individuals but that doesn't make them a great team. If Calgary can beat them we can beat them.

I wouldn?t call him a cherry picker. The BB were on the upswing, but the signing of he and bighill were big reasons for the upswing.

I wish things could have been worked out with us but you gotta move on. He did all he could for us and literally willed us to win a GC. we should acknowledge that and congratulate him on an outstanding career.

Our D will have to play much better then they did in Hamilton. ZC8 will also have to have his A game.

Quote from: Pigskin on September 24, 2023, 03:54:23 AM
Our D will have to play much better then they did in Hamilton. ZC8 will also have to have his A game.

Even if that happens they will outplay us on special teams....T.O only loses this week if they beat themselves.

Toronto has great players but we have a great team. I give Zach the edge over Kelly, Oliveira over Ouellette, our O-line is best in league and our kicking game is much improved. Yes Toronto gets the edge in special teams but Grant has been injured most of the season and is due back any time now. Our D is just as capable as theirs and we have shown the ability to exploit any D. I also believe that Toronto has already peaked and has nothing to play for whereas we are fighting it out with BC for first place and need this win.

I'm reminded of 2019 going into the Grey Cup against Hamilton who were, I believe, 15-3 and were supposedly unbeatable. How did that turn out? We have plenty of opportunity to get on a roll here going into the playoffs and a nice start would be a win over Toronto.

The Argos have a better front seven on defence, and a special teams advantage .
However on any given game it is often the team that has the better intensity and desire. As O'Shea has often said.." that is why you play the game"
We have a superior offence, home crowd, a weeks rest ... Am looking forward to this game

Quote from: J5V on September 24, 2023, 02:08:40 PM
Toronto has great players but we have a great team. I give Zach the edge over Kelly, Oliveira over Ouellette, our O-line is best in league and our kicking game is much improved. Yes Toronto gets the edge in special teams but Grant has been injured most of the season and is due back any time now. Our D is just as capable as theirs and we have shown the ability to exploit any D. I also believe that Toronto has already peaked and has nothing to play for whereas we are fighting it out with BC for first place and need this win.

I'm reminded of 2019 going into the Grey Cup against Hamilton who were, I believe, 15-3 and were supposedly unbeatable. How did that turn out? We have plenty of opportunity to get on a roll here going into the playoffs and a nice start would be a win over Toronto.

I have to sort of disagree with part of your statement. The Bombers have a good team. Toronto at least IMHO across the board has a better team. We do need this win and need to fight for first place while Toronto is just playing out the balance of the season and trying to make sure they are sharp for the playoffs. I see a Bomber win against the Argos - but it will not mean much other that we will still be in the fight for first in the West.

Quote from: ModAdmin on September 23, 2023, 04:49:12 AM
Darren Cameron
@Darren_Cameron

15m
With the results of tonight's games, the #Bombers have clinched a home playoff game for a third straight season.

Game will be either Saturday, November 4th (WSF) or Saturday, November 11th (WF). 5:30pm CT kickoff for both dates. #ForTheW

I'm not optimistic if we finish second and have to play the final in BC. I think it's imperative we take the Western Conference and play at home.

I have doubts about the Bombers. Zac has played poorly. The corners in defense are not very good.  The Bombers O line is looking old and tired.  Toronto is very well coached and their execution enables Kelly to look good and their RBs to run untouched for at least five yards. Their defense punishes the offensive guys, while Zac hangs balls up in the air and our receivers get pounded several times

The loss of Grant has hurt more than expected. Special teams coverage doesn?t have  many guys that take pride in making tackles.

Ok we have been really good at times, just nit lately. I personally feel whoever. Is hit at the end of the season, likely does well in the playoffs??So judge for yourselves.  The saving grace is that the Bombers May be rested, and then can execute. Plus I think crybaby Vernon Adams  panicky quickly.  However Ritchie Hall's prevent defense from the start of the game, allows Adams what he needs.  Do we smarten up and apply pressure?

The Bombers can do it.  It?s just as far as trends go, it is producing doubts.

JJ94 on the field taking part in the full practice.
Gauthier and Darby working out hard on there own. Both look ready to go.
Grant, working on his own. No equipment, but did much more then I have seen in the past.
Miller, still in sweats. Nothing.
Lawrence, back at full practice. DL22
Deug, new DE wearing #52, could be WJ5 twin brother. Tall and lean. KD52
Hansen, back at full practice.

Didn't see Castillo kick 1 ball. Thought he be working hard after costing us 6 points in the last game.

We left with 15 minutes left in practice and they hadn't worked on punt returns at that point.

I have never seen Wade Miller on the field at practice. He was there today chatting with MOS.

Also orange shirts and hoodies for sale in the Bomber store.

I am expecting Argo's to blitz early and often. Pressure ZC8 all night. Buck will need to find an answer.

Ricky Walker 30 tackles and 4 sacks, not bad for a first year starting DT.

Quote from: Pigskin on September 25, 2023, 10:29:30 PM
Ricky Walker 30 tackles and 4 sacks, not bad for a first year starting DT.

I agree. I have been surprising impress with Walker. I hope he continues to develope as the Bomber DL is getting a little long in the tooth so to speak.

Injury report has jeffcoat as limited, hip. This looks to be very similar to last year. I think he has been overused ty

Argos will be rotating in players all game, if the good zach shows up, we beat them no problem, he struggles, we struggle

Our corners are good, our OL is excellent and Zach is generally playing fine with a few bumps in the road.

Toronto is pretty much good at everything.  We have the experience advantage.

I don't think JJ94 will sit out this week. He took part in all the drills today, and wasn't taking it easy. Splitting time with Haba, mite be a good thing. 

It was nice to see Grant finally doing some agility drills, and running a lot more then the last few weeks. Could Grant be back for BC???

Nice to hear some guys are back and Jeffcoat practiced....hopefully that hip lets him get through the rest of the season. I really hope we are able to roster Haba, Willy and Jeffcoat on the edge and maybe add Hanson next week.  I agree with the above posters Walker has steadily grown into a pretty darn good tackle.

Getting Grant back at all if he can pick-up where he left off before his injury would be huge at any point this year

Thanks for clarifying Des Lawrence guys!

While I want to believe we can win this game, T.O is just so good in all phases...but any given "Friday"....

Teams look pretty evenly matched in 2 phases of the game.  Key is special teams. TO's is vastly superior.

Wonder if Chad is going to suit up??

Cameron Dukes took QB1 reps at #Argos walkthrough Tuesday. Sounds like Chad Kelly will not start,  but could play at some point vs #Bombers @CFLonTSN #TSN_Edge

Good. We are more likely to win then.

Interesting if Dukes starts. Although we have a terrible record recently with back-ups..lol

At the end of the day just win by one, I don't care just win to keep pace with BC.

Quote from: peg_city on September 26, 2023, 05:33:14 PM
Good. We are more likely to win then.

Dustin Crum, Jake Dolegala and Taylor Powell have entered the chat...

Quote from: The Zipp on September 26, 2023, 05:24:06 PM
Wonder if Chad is going to suit up??

Cameron Dukes took QB1 reps at #Argos walkthrough Tuesday. Sounds like Chad Kelly will not start,  but could play at some point vs #Bombers @CFLonTSN #TSN_Edge

Everyone in BC: "C'mon man....."  ;)

Argos know with the home crowd bombers will come out hyped up, thats why their not starting Chad, I expect to see him in by end of first qtr.But big picture wise this is a punk move by Dimwiddie.
The cfl has a chance to showcase a marquee matchup and the argos trot out their backup qb?
Its not good for the cfl or the fans that sold out the stadium.

Quote from: Pete on September 26, 2023, 07:16:41 PM
Argos know with the home crowd bombers will come out hyped up, thats why their not starting Chad, I expect to see him in by end of first qtr.But big picture wise this is a punk move by Dinwiddie.
The cfl has a chance to showcase a marquee matchup and the argos trot out their backup qb?
Its not good for the cfl or the fans that sold out the stadium.

Sorry but I agree with Dinwiddie's choice here - Game means zero to the Argos so why risk him? And it is not a marquee matchup - it would be if both teams had something to play for but the Argos do not have any reason to make this a marquee match. The bombers yes - they need the win to keep 1st in the West in play.

Long way to go before the cup and Dinwiddlie is playing it smart.

Dinwiddie like his mentor dickenson is always trying to show how smart he is. Sometimes for the sake of the league you need to see the big picture.
This should be a hyped up game  to draw in as many viewers as possible.
The argos have lots of time to rest starters later Some might even call it cowardly

Disappointed that TO mite not be playing some of there starters. However, it's also good player management.

Sounds like work load management in the nba which they are now trying to get rid of because its not fair to the fans that bought tickets thinking they were going to see the best players (jn this case Kelly vs Collaros) go head to head especially in the only regular season game since the grey cup

Quote from: Pete on September 26, 2023, 08:31:04 PM
Dinwiddie like his mentor dickenson is always trying to show how smart he is. Sometimes for the sake of the league you need to see the big picture.
This should be a hyped up game  to draw in as many viewers as possible.
The argos have lots of time to rest starters later Some might even call it cowardly

We would and have done the same thing if we have 1st in the division wrapped up.  It?s just smart why risk injury to your stars.  Nothing cowardly about plying the long game. 

Quote from: bluengold204 on September 26, 2023, 09:17:28 PM
We would and have done the same thing if we have 1st in the division wrapped up.  It?s just smart why risk injury to your stars.  Nothing cowardly about plying the long game. 

agreed...too bad the Grey Cup rematch wasn't sooner...marquee game and this happens...

It was only Monday when their QB2 ran the offence, I would not read too much into this a maybe Kelly was taking a vet day. Let's see if there are any reports from today's practice and moving forward this week. Dinwiddie might be trying to play mind games with the Bombers. I would expect Kelly to play as this is only game #15, a little too early to start resting Kelly.

My first thought is that we are risking our starter but they are not? What is their plan? I hope the officials are on top of any attempt to cheap shot us.

Quote from: The Zipp on September 26, 2023, 09:21:10 PM
agreed...too bad the Grey Cup rematch wasn't sooner...marquee game and this happens...

What happened to the days when the GC rematch was week 1 of the following season? I feel like this was how it wad for a while?

Quote from: BBRT on September 26, 2023, 08:23:04 PM
Sorry but I agree with Dinwiddie's choice here - Game means zero to the Argos so why risk him? And it is not a marquee matchup - it would be if both teams had something to play for but the Argos do not have any reason to make this a marquee match. The bombers yes - they need the win to keep 1st in the West in play.

Long way to go before the cup and Dinwiddlie is playing it smart.

Hard to disagree with this and Dinwiddie?s decision. Lets just trounce these ****** ******** and move on.

Quote from: Waffler on September 26, 2023, 11:27:41 PM
My first thought is that we are risking our starter but they are not? What is their plan? I hope the officials are on top of any attempt to cheap shot us.

We are risking our starter because we are a far cry away from taking first in our division.  Argos already clinched first

Quote from: drahgon on September 26, 2023, 06:28:28 PM
Dustin Crum, Jake Dolegala and Taylor Powell have entered the chat...

Yes, all #2 or #3 Qbs  and all have beaten us.

So, why has no one offered up the "why give them an opportunity to test a game plan against the full Argo roster" as a reason to rest starters?

Sure, protect starters from injury, but also, we've not played against them this year.  Why give us game film of our #1's against theirs?

Quote from: theaardvark on September 27, 2023, 03:53:55 AM
So, why has no one offered up the "why give them an opportunity to test a game plan against the full Argo roster" as a reason to rest starters?

Sure, protect starters from injury, but also, we've not played against them this year.  Why give us game film of our #1's against theirs?

Because there is game film on every team already.

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 27, 2023, 01:16:33 PM
Because there is game film on every team already.

Yes. And also the knife cuts both ways.

knowing how we play against backup QBs, Torontos odds might've gone uo

We all know that argos have a struggle drawing fans, does it help now that they' ve decided to show this game isn't important? You'd think they'd want to get as many watching as possible to build excitement

Vegas line went from Bombers -2.5 to Bombers -7.5 with the Toronto QB news.

Quote from: kkc60 on September 27, 2023, 02:11:19 PM
knowing how we play against backup QBs, Torontos odds might've gone uo

Maybe if it were a road game. But it isn't.

Why are some people ripping on Dinwiddie?

The guys team is head and shoulders above everyone else, yes including us. they have an almost perfect record and have nothing to gain or lose as far as win/loss record at this point. They have first and know that they will be hosting the Eastern Final. The know that they have no byes left.

With that information why risk an injury, or further aggravating an injury, play your stars minimally give them simple plays to keep them in game speed, and then get them rested and as healthy as can be for the final two game push, who cares about winning and losing until then.

Trust the "next man up" that they will do enough to win, and even if they don't it exposes them to actual live game reps against real competition, that you can't get in practice or TC. Heaven forbid you still get an injury to Kelly for example at least this way Dukes has some recent live experience.

Heck if Dinwiddie himself would have been afforded that opportunity he may very well have been a hero in WPG and broken our drought.

Regardless of storylines, marketing, ripping fans off, this IS a smart move by him...the guys who is all but a shoe in to win coach of the year, the same guy who won the GC last year and has guided his team to record breaking levels....I guess his blue is too light so he must be dumb....cmon man!

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 27, 2023, 04:13:01 PM
Why are some people ripping on Dinwiddie?

The guys team is head and shoulders above everyone else, yes including us. they have an almost perfect record and have nothing to gain or lose as far as win/loss record at this point. They have first and know that they will be hosting the Eastern Final. The know that they have no byes left.

With that information why risk an injury, or further aggravating an injury, play your stars minimally give them simple plays to keep them in game speed, and then get them rested and as healthy as can be for the final two game push, who cares about winning and losing until then.

Trust the "next man up" that they will do enough to win, and even if they don't it exposes them to actual live game reps against real competition, that you can't get in practice or TC. Heaven forbid you still get an injury to Kelly for example at least this way Dukes has some recent live experience.

Heck if Dinwiddie himself would have been afforded that opportunity he may very well have been a hero in WPG and broken our drought.

Regardless of storylines, marketing, ripping fans off, this IS a smart move by him...the guys who is all but a shoe in to win coach of the year, the same guy who won the GC last year and has guided his team to record breaking levels....I guess his blue is too light so he must be dumb....cmon man!

What he said!! Agree 100%

This isnt about Dinwiddie, hes  a good coach. Its about building the cfl as a product. This year has been disappointing for a lot of markets and fans are losing interest. People and media have been looking forward to this game for months. For all the talk of rest you thinrk the eastern final was next week.
We need more reasons to watch cfl games not less.

Quote from: Pete on September 27, 2023, 04:52:21 PM
This isnt about Dinwiddie, hes  a good coach. Its about building the cfl as a product. This year has been disappointing for a lot of markets and fans are losing interest. People and media have been looking forward to this game for months. For all the talk of rest you thinrk the eastern final was next week.
We need more reasons to watch cfl games not less.

Fair but then direct the frustration at the CFL for having the game scheduled this late in the season.

I just is to bad the east is so terrible AGAIN that the Argos have no real competition. That is what sucks.

Quote from: GOLDMEMBER on September 27, 2023, 05:20:33 PM
I just is to bad the east is so terrible AGAIN that the Argos have no real competition. That is what sucks.

You know we may never know how good the 2023 addition of Argos are until we see them in the Grey Cup again. And if they get bumped out in the EF we will never know. Strange year!

With Kelly getting half time for the next 5 games, you kind of wonder what that does to the MOP race.

McManis and Peters are out for the Argos. They both excellent players on defence. Our daily IR report is the usual BS. Hansen, Schoen and Jeffcoat shown as questionable after being limited in today's practice. So much for transparency.

I believe Toronto sitting many of their starters for this game is a colossal mistake. This was to be the litmus test. This game was going to be the one to show everyone that they are indeed the best team in the league.

It was supposed to be Kelly against Collaros. I know Collaros is disappointed but if I was Kelly, and he's the competitor I believe him to be, I'd be PISSED! This is not the game to be taking a seat in. This was to be the game that was the most fun of all.

This was the Grey Cup rematch and a renewal of a GC rivalry. Finally a real meaningful game by the two most explosive teams in the league. In the back of their minds Argos players have to be wondering "What's the matter coach, don't you think our best can beat their best, what are you afraid of, an injury? Really?" Their coach has taken that opportunity from them. Why?

By pulling the fuse out of the dynamite Dinwiddie has neutered his team and basically told his club he's afraid. Afraid to risk playing his starters. Afraid of what the Bombers might do to his team.

The optics are terrible! This was the game that could have truly defined the Argos as the league's best. Win and the Argos would have been on top of the world. They needed this game even more than we did. Now, win or lose, by sitting their starters they'll be left wondering.

This is a huge mistake and when they lose in either the East final or the Grey Cup I'll look back to this decision as the reason why.

Never, ever, let fear dictate your decisions.

Quote from: J5V on September 28, 2023, 12:47:44 AM
I believe Toronto sitting many of their starters for this game is a colossal mistake. This was to be the litmus test. This game was going to be the one to show everyone that they are indeed the best team in the league.

It was supposed to be Kelly against Collaros. I know Collaros is disappointed but if I was Kelly, and he's the competitor I believe him to be, I'd be PISSED! This is not the game to be taking a seat in. This was to be the game that was the most fun of all.

This was the Grey Cup rematch and a renewal of a GC rivalry. Finally a real meaningful game by the two most explosive teams in the league. In the back of their minds Argos players have to be wondering "What's the matter coach, don't you think our best can beat their best, what are you afraid of, an injury? Really?" Their coach has taken that opportunity from them. Why?

By pulling the fuse out of the dynamite Dinwiddie has neutered his team and basically told his club he's afraid. Afraid to risk playing his starters. Afraid of what the Bombers might do to his team.

The optics are terrible! This was the game that could have truly defined the Argos as the league's best. Win and the Argos would have been on top of the world. They needed this game even more than we did. Now, win or lose, by sitting their starters they'll be left wondering.

This is a huge mistake and when they lose in either the East final or the Grey Cup I'll look back to this decision as the reason why.

Never, ever, let fear dictate your decisions.

I bet the players are saying the opposite.  Remember the Argos had all their bye weeks by week 11.  They are probably happy to be in the position to be able to rest up and heal.  Probably would rather face us in the grey cup fully healthy rather then a meaningless game for them.

cmon they have 5 games left! its way too early for rest. They've already had 3 byes ..there the freshest team in the league. (by the way, many times its when you take your foot off the gas thats when you get hurt)

Last time this will be mentioned.  In future, if members decide to mess around with players', coaches', managers' names, those posts will no longer be modified, they will be deleted.  Legitimate criticism is always allowed, the modifying names is demeaning and insulting and will not tolerated.  I don't know how many times this has been stated and it is covered in the rules.  Please abide by the rules!

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Last time this will be mentioned.  In future, if members decide to mess around with players', coaches', managers' names, those posts will no longer be modified, they will be deleted.  Legitimate criticism is always allowed, the modifying names is demeaning and insulting and will not tolerated.  I don't know how many times this has been stated and it is covered in the rules.  Please abide by the rules!

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I'm still trying to figure out why Kelly not starting is a bad thing. We are more likely to win this game.

Argos will be playing a bunch of back ups which gives us the advantage. Now we just have to use it and come away with a win. Don't really care how or why we do it, just do it. 1st place race is too close.

Quote from: Blue In BC on September 28, 2023, 02:06:29 PM
Argos will be playing a bunch of back ups which gives us the advantage. Now we just have to use it and come away with a win. Don't really care how or why we do it, just do it. 1st place race is too close.

Now knowing this we have got to win handily! We always seem to respond with real vengeance after a disappointing Road loss then Returning home for the next tilt.
The boys should be extra fired up! I hope we see another blood bath!!!

Gotta win tomorrow. Letting the Lions get back into the hunt for top spot with that loss to the Ti-Cats two weeks ago is a bad look as it is.

Looks like its Hansen,and Jeffcoat in, marou and haba out for this game.
Was hoping we'd have Haba in to spell the Jeffs.Seems like coaches don't think as much of him as we do.

Quote from: Pete on September 28, 2023, 02:31:20 PM
Looks like its Hansen,and Jeffcoat in, marou and haba out for this game.
Was hoping we'd have Haba in to spell the Jeffs.Seems like coaches don't think as much of him as we do.

Good to get Hansen back. We'll see how quickly he gets up to game speed and what his performance will be like after a year off. The bigger concern is whether his body and head will be in tune with the physical recovery.

There is always some concern about a re-injury in returning. Get past this game and he should be good to go longer term.

Quote from: peg_city on September 28, 2023, 01:58:47 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why Kelly not starting is a bad thing. We are more likely to win this game.

Not the way we play against backups lol

Mind games by the Argos.

If they lose, they played backups and it does not really mean anything.

If they win, they are easily the best team in the league.

Count me as one that feels it is a huge mistake by the Argos to start resting guys, especially on offence, this early. My objection isn't because it's bad for the CFL, or that it's bad for the Toronto market. Nothing is going to make the Toronto market any better short of the Argos joining the NFL. My reasoning for stating it's dumb is coming from many years coaching offences and football. Momentum, execution, and motivation are everything in football and moves like this can rob a confident team that is executing well and is motivated to win of all these parts.

I feel like the rests will be short lived after they sustain a couple of losses, but if I were the coach and I own a 12-1 record, I'm resting guys only in the final couple weeks when the rest really matters. Saving guys from injury is a cop out imo. There is no saving guys from injuries. They happen, and will happen, whether you shelter them or not and taking their mental edge and preparation rhythm away is just as risky as letting them play.

Quote from: GCn19 on September 28, 2023, 03:30:17 PM
Count me as one that feels it is a huge mistake by the Argos to start resting guys, especially on offence, this early. My objection isn't because it's bad for the CFL, or that it's bad for the Toronto market. Nothing is going to make the Toronto market any better short of the Argos joining the NFL. My reasoning for stating it's dumb is coming from many years coaching offences and football. Momentum, execution, and motivation are everything in football and moves like this can rob a confident team that is executing well and is motivated to win of all these parts.

I feel like the rests will be short lived after they sustain a couple of losses, but if I were the coach and I own a 12-1 record, I'm resting guys only in the final couple weeks when the rest really matters. Saving guys from injury is a cop out imo. There is no saving guys from injuries. They happen, and will happen, whether you shelter them or not and taking their mental edge and preparation rhythm away is just as risky as letting them play.

I can see Dinwiddie's logic, if I was coach I'd rest players who need it now and go full on 2 games before the playoffs so they regain their rhythm as a team.  The week off for the winner of the division is not always an advantage as it gives them too much time to think about the game.

Quote from: Pete on September 28, 2023, 02:31:20 PM
Looks like its Hansen,and Jeffcoat in, marou and haba out for this game.
Was hoping we'd have Haba in to spell the Jeffs.Seems like coaches don't think as much of him as we do.

Agree. Was hoping they would only us JJ94 on a number of key downs.     

Quote from: GCn19 on September 28, 2023, 03:30:17 PM
Count me as one that feels it is a huge mistake by the Argos to start resting guys, especially on offence, this early. My objection isn't because it's bad for the CFL, or that it's bad for the Toronto market. Nothing is going to make the Toronto market any better short of the Argos joining the NFL. My reasoning for stating it's dumb is coming from many years coaching offences and football. Momentum, execution, and motivation are everything in football and moves like this can rob a confident team that is executing well and is motivated to win of all these parts.

I feel like the rests will be short lived after they sustain a couple of losses, but if I were the coach and I own a 12-1 record, I'm resting guys only in the final couple weeks when the rest really matters. Saving guys from injury is a cop out imo. There is no saving guys from injuries. They happen, and will happen, whether you shelter them or not and taking their mental edge and preparation rhythm away is just as risky as letting them play.

I am 100% against sitting players.

I hate it when we've done it the past few seasons and I don't think it's a good idea for the Argos.

But, c'est la vie.

Why is everyone complaining that we are being handed an easier game?

Well IMO if Hanson picks up where he left off he is better than Bennet so we are upgrading the D-line. Would have been great to find a way to keep Haba also in the rotation. Hopefully Gauthier gets healthy we can put him in pull off an import LB then pull Bennet off and add Haba in his place. This would keep the CDN/Import numbers the same, improve the special teams and improve the D-line.

Maybe next week

Quote from: theaardvark on September 28, 2023, 05:22:30 PM
Why is everyone complaining that we are being handed an easier game?

Generally, the people who post here like football and enjoy seeing the highest quality game they can.

Highly anticipated match-ups are....highly anticipated...

Quote from: theaardvark on September 28, 2023, 05:22:30 PM
Why is everyone complaining that we are being handed an easier game?

Because I want to see the best against the best.

Quote from: ModAdmin on September 28, 2023, 03:41:11 AM
Last time this will be mentioned.  In future, if members decide to mess around with players', coaches', managers' names, those posts will no longer be modified, they will be deleted.  Legitimate criticism is always allowed, the modifying names is demeaning and insulting and will not tolerated.  I don't know how many times this has been stated and it is covered in the rules.  Please abide by the rules!

Great approach and well supported by me.  Thanks for doing this.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on September 28, 2023, 01:50:21 PM
Modadmin... more like Madadmin... am I right?!  ;D

It's a serious issue on here and an annoyance for the mods.  We can all help them by using proper names.

Quote from: Ducky on September 28, 2023, 02:53:14 PM
Mind games by the Argos.

If they lose, they played backups and it does not really mean anything.

If they win, they are easily the best team in the league.

Ducky understands.  It's like game theory.

By not playing Kelly the Argos can look like garbage and lose 60-0 and they'll just say it's because they were playing their no-starts backup.

If they lose a close game, they can say "look how awesome we are, we almost beat the Bumblers with our nobody QB!"

If they win, heaven help us, they'll gloat and every fan from every other team will laugh how we got smoked by a 5th string nobody QB.

Now turn it around and imagine if Kelly plays the whole game...

If they lose 60-0 with Kelly then there's a massive seed of doubt in the TOR mindspace.  Not good for TOR.

If they lose a close game, it still shakes their confidence.  Not good for TOR.

If they win, then they continue on with the status quo of "we're the best and unbeatable".  Neutral for TOR.

So by not playing Kelly they have 2 possible outcomes that are good (for TOR) and 1 outcome that is neutral.

If they play Kelly they have 2 possible outcomes that are very bad for TOR, and 1 outcome that is neutral.

So what HC would play Kelly??  They cannot possibly have any harm by choosing to bench Kelly.  Oh ya, and by not playing Kelly, he also can't get injured.  And double bonus: the backup guys get valuable real-world game reps.  Triple bonus: the pressure is massively on us because of the level of embarrassment a WPG loss would cause.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 28, 2023, 11:47:14 PM
Ducky understands.  It's like game theory.

By not playing Kelly the Argos can look like garbage and lose 60-0 and they'll just say it's because they were playing their no-starts backup.

If they lose a close game, they can say "look how awesome we are, we almost beat the Bumblers with our nobody QB!"

If they win, heaven help us, they'll gloat and every fan from every other team will laugh how we got smoked by a 5th string nobody QB.

Now turn it around and imagine if Kelly plays the whole game...

If they lose 60-0 with Kelly then there's a massive seed of doubt in the TOR mindspace.  Not good for TOR.

If they lose a close game, it still shakes their confidence.  Not good for TOR.

If they win, then they continue on with the status quo of "we're the best and unbeatable".  Neutral for TOR.

So by not playing Kelly they have 2 possible outcomes that are good (for TOR) and 1 outcome that is neutral.

If they play Kelly they have 2 possible outcomes that are very bad for TOR, and 1 outcome that is neutral.

So what HC would play Kelly??  They cannot possibly have any harm by choosing to bench Kelly.  Oh ya, and by not playing Kelly, he also can't get injured.  And double bonus: the backup guys get valuable real-world game reps.  Triple bonus: the pressure is massively on us because of the level of embarrassment a WPG loss would cause.

Bombers would be pretty dumb to run up the score on the Argos as that would add incentive to a potential rematch in the GC.  Honestly can't see them able to do it against what will still be an outstanding Argo defence, 30 something pts. would be great.  I do expect the Bomber D to be able to hold their O under Dukes to less than 20 pts.

Quote from: peg_city on September 27, 2023, 09:12:06 PM
With Kelly getting half time for the next 5 games, you kind of wonder what that does to the MOP race.

If Brady is lights out 100+ in all remaining games, getting tough yards and 1st downs, then Kelly sitting now might allow Brady to get MOP.  I'm pretty sure Zach is out of the equation.  He's been too hot & cold, and thrown way too many INTs without coming back to win.  Zach would have to do something special for all remaining games to be back in the hunt.  Brady has been far more consistent than Zach this season, and he's the RB most teams would love to have.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on September 29, 2023, 12:37:20 AM
Bombers would be pretty dumb to run up the score on the Argos as that would add incentive to a potential rematch in the GC.  Honestly can't see them able to do it against what will still be an outstanding Argo defence, 30 something pts. would be great.  I do expect the Bomber D to be able to hold their O under Dukes to less than 20 pts.

I don't think we run up the score for running-it-up's sake.  But we must keep racking up the points until mid-4th because it's the CFL and unless you're up 3 majors by then, you're not safe.  Especially against TOR who thinks they'll win every game no matter how much they're down.

The secret sauce to the TOR O is 1) their OL, 2) Oullette.  The OL isn't resting anyone, from what I can see.  This should give Dukes piles of time.  And if he can (or will) run, watch out, because our D stinks really bad against "running QBs".  I think if we can stop scrambled eggs guy and stop Dukes from running, we can win easily.  But if either of them can run at will on our front 7, we're in for a long night.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 29, 2023, 02:32:36 AM
If Brady is lights out 100+ in all remaining games, getting tough yards and 1st downs, then Kelly sitting now might allow Brady to get MOP.  I'm pretty sure Zach is out of the equation.  He's been too hot & cold, and thrown way too many INTs without coming back to win.  Zach would have to do something special for all remaining games to be back in the hunt.  Brady has been far more consistent than Zach this season, and he's the RB most teams would love to have.

Zach's MOP stats last year:

4183 yards, 70% completion, 9.6 yard/completion, 37 TDs, 13 INTs, 116 rating (this is while sitting for 2ish games end of season).

On pace this year:

4550 yards, 67.8% completion, 10.5 yard/completion, 38 TDs, 17 INTs, 115 rating (this is while missing 1.5 games due to injury but projecting to play the final 4 games).

Quote from: peg_city on September 27, 2023, 09:12:06 PM
With Kelly getting half time for the next 5 games, you kind of wonder what that does to the MOP race.

I don?t think it will matter, I don?t expect Kelly to sit out for their 2 home games after this one.

Kelly has been by far the best player this year and I don?t think it will be much of discussion who takes home MOP at the end of the year.

Quote from: Jesse on September 29, 2023, 02:42:14 AM
On pace this year:

4550 yards, 67.8% completion, 10.5 yard/completion, 38 TDs, 17 INTs, 115 rating (this is while missing 1.5 games due to injury but projecting to play the final 4 games).

And Kelly's for comparison?

Whether Zach's stats look good on paper or not, I think the general feeling around the league and amongst fans of every team (including ours) is Zach has had a hot/cold "off" year.  The many multi-INT games are what will put his chances down the drain.  And losing to bottom-feeder teams.

Now, if Zach comes out and lights up TOR like he did BC and SSK with TD after TD after TD, and he does that in all 4 remaining games, then maybe he can be back in the picture.  If us blue-goggle WPG fans think he's probably not MOP, then what do you think the non-WPG media voters are thinking??  I think our best shot is for Brady to sneak in and win it.

Quote from: bluengold204 on September 29, 2023, 03:47:23 AM
I don?t think it will matter, I don?t expect Kelly to sit out for their 2 home games after this one.

My money is on Kelly not seeing more than a half of football per game for all remaining season games.  In fact, I'd also put a smaller bet it's not more than a quarter.  Maybe 1-3 games he doesn't see the field at all.

My only question is: do you bring Kelly on to try to salvage a game that the other nobodies are losing?  I doubt it.  That's not usually what CFL HCs do.  Rust Shmust.  Every year we argue this but staying healthy trumps mythical rust.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 29, 2023, 05:27:50 AM
And Kelly's for comparison?

If Kelly were to miss 2 games (which is likely going to be more, but we'll leave at 2 to make it comparable to ZC:

4179 yards, 68.6% completion, 10.4 yard/completion, 26 TDs, 14 INTs, 110 rating (Kelly has also rushed for 8 TDs if you want to count those into the mix).

I know the narrative surrounding the Argos, but "most outstanding" doesn't really apply to what Kelly has done this year, imo.

IMO Kelly takes MOP easily this year, I believe Zach will get a few votes and it wouldn't surprise me if VA ends up with a couple votes.  I think Brady and Betts will be a solid battle with voters for CDN.

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 29, 2023, 11:51:43 AM
IMO Kelly takes MOP easily this year, I believe Zach will get a few votes and it wouldn't surprise me if VA ends up with a couple votes.  I think Brady and Betts will be a solid battle with voters for CDN.

Does he? If he's barely playing the last 5 games of the year....

Quote from: peg_city on September 29, 2023, 01:29:40 PM
Does he? If he's barely playing the last 5 games of the year....

Even if he does play, he doesn't easily take it. He's certainly in the conversation for MOP, but I don't think he's the front-runner.

There are a few others in the conversation, including Collaros and Oliveira.

Not playing against the Bombers should (but won't) remove Chad Kelly from any consideration as MOP.

If he was injured and legitimately couldn't play that would be a different story, but that's not what's happening here.

"He beat up everybody on the schoolyard that was smaller than him" doesn't make you the toughest kid in school. Likewise, beating all of the teams that are worse than yours while avoiding the one and only team that might be your equal isn't MOP material, it's cowardice, plain and simple.

Whether that cowardice is his or his coaching staffs', it's repugnant. I've lost what little respect I had for that team.

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 29, 2023, 11:51:43 AM
IMO Kelly takes MOP easily this year, I believe Zach will get a few votes and it wouldn't surprise me if VA ends up with a couple votes.  I think Brady and Betts will be a solid battle with voters for CDN.

I really don't get the argument for Kelly as MOP.

Betts isn't a candidate for MOC anymore either, imo.

Quote from: Jesse on September 29, 2023, 05:29:42 PM
I really don't get the argument for Kelly as MOP.

Betts isn't a candidate for MOC anymore either, imo.

Kelly really hasn't lost a game this season yet so I think he'll most likely win MOP as most voters are in the East and they're probably tired of voting for Zach and want to cast a vote for someone else.  It might not be right, but it's happened before, notably to Bryant and Walby.

Since when do team wins determine an individual accolade like MOP?

I see the MOP coming down to Kelly in the East vs Brady O in the west. (Collaros has been good, but Brady's been outstanding)

Kelly will win MOP even if he shouldn't.

Collaros has had an erratic and inconsistent year, yes, he's the past MOP, but shouldn't even be in the discussion. Brady would be my nomination for our club, he's been consistent all year.

Quote from: Jesse on September 29, 2023, 11:28:14 AM
I know the narrative surrounding the Argos, but "most outstanding" doesn't really apply to what Kelly has done this year, imo.

Kelly led and willed the team to wins even when they should have lost.  That is what elevates him to possible MOP.  The QB gets all the glory and blame for team wins / losses.  Similarly, Zach gets the blame for all the losses to garbage teams.  That is why if it's Kelly vs Zach, they'll give it to Kelly: unless Zach kicks BC butt in 1 week and gets 300+ yard games with tons of TDs for the remainder of the season.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on September 29, 2023, 01:58:21 PM
Even if he does play, he doesn't easily take it. He's certainly in the conversation for MOP, but I don't think he's the front-runner.

Don't kid yourself, Kelly is far and away the front-runner.  You don't win all but 1 (non-garbagetime) game and lock up the division with 100 games to go and not be front-runner for MOP.  If we had won all those basement games we should have this season then Zach would be the clear front-runner because of the TD edge.

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 29, 2023, 11:51:43 AM
I think Brady and Betts will be a solid battle with voters for CDN.

Brady had career best game tonight according to CJOB.  It's that type of late-season performance, on top of the 90% consistent performance earlier in the season, that makes him a solid possibility for MOP.  And if he doesn't get MOP. how do they not pick him for MONAT?  Betts has had many games with zero or near-zero stats.  We made him look silly last time.

If Brady can get 100 every game and show he can't be stopped when closing out games, then I think he deserves MOP, but it's very hard for media to pick a RB over a QB; and the league does love kissing TOR butt... "the league needs TOR fans, the other teams be darned"

Quote from: John T. on September 29, 2023, 03:06:51 PM
Whether that cowardice is his or his coaching staffs', it's repugnant. I've lost what little respect I had for that team.

TOR is doing the smart thing that most HCs would do.  Not only do you save him from injury, but you save his headspace by not risking a humiliating loss to WPG, or worse, one of the garbage teams.

@IGF I was sitting there thinking... what if on the last couple of critical TOR drives you put in Kelly to drive the field for a TD and probably win the game?  I was watching him all 4th to see if he was ever warming up.  He wasn't.

Imagine if Kelly comes in when they are down less than a major and drives the field easily and runs it in himself for a TD and TOR wins... they'd have a morale boost, and bragging rights, that would last until the GC.  In addition, imagine the devastation on our team morale if that happened?  Disaster.  But it would be a huge gamble, as it all backfires should he fail, or worse, get injured.

TOR is in a happy place right now that has no need to gamble on anything.  Just keep going by the book and they'll have a great chance at winning a GC.

Quote from: 3rdand1.5 on September 29, 2023, 11:51:43 AM
IMO Kelly takes MOP easily this year, I believe Zach will get a few votes and it wouldn't surprise me if VA ends up with a couple votes.  I think Brady and Betts will be a solid battle with voters for CDN.

Quite possibly, unless Adams or Collaros are lights out.

Brady deserves recognition, and it will be tough for him to win Canadian if Betts sets sack records. 

If Brady sets a ruching record of combined yards record, and Betts sets a sack record, tough choice, but MOCP tends to favour O, like MOP favours QB's..

Quote from: TecnoGenius on September 30, 2023, 05:10:38 AM
TOR is in a happy place right now that has no need to gamble on anything.  Just keep going by the book and they'll have a great chance at winning a GC.

Let's keep telling them that.