Would you play Vaval on D?

[Blueforlife]

We agree to disagree on most of your points. We're in year 5 of going downhill.

Last year we traded up to draft Shay. Calgary drafted Fortin 2 picks later. Shay spends most of his time on the bench. Fortin is the starting center in Calgary and we've got an import at center. We also traded up for our 1st global pick and released him this year. 

This year our 1st pick was Daniels. He might become a good player but he is not that yet. Did we really need to do that when we had Eli, MCI and others also trying to fill a role as an extra blocker? I guess time will tell, but we have too many similar players.

Focusing on the down slope without given credit to the time spent on the summit.

Drafting is a crap shoot.  You always miss some stars but you hope the guys you have will turn out.  Most guys take years.  Cherry picking other teams picks that made it right away isn't fair.  Guys that found success elsewhere might not have here.  Same could be said about some of our picks that didn't work out.  Sometimes its right place at the right time.  Yes we should have take Fortin.  Give Shay time, never know.

Our scouting needs improvement, so does our drafting.  We have had turnover in this regard.

Some choose to live life in delusion while others try and deal with reality. We are an average at best team right now struggling for the last playoff spot in the west or a crossover spot in the east. We are one hit away on our Qb from our season being over like Hamilton is. It's pedal to the metal time not sit back and be patient while we lose

Some called for coaches, management and players heads right before we go on a mini dynasty run.  How did that work out? Patience paid off.  Keeping Hall and MOS was brilliant, even when both struggled at time early.

Nobody is delusional, we all have an opinion and it's what makes this place great.

Yes it's not time to be patient right now, we need to try to salvage this season.  The Patience comes after we rebuild, just like a decade before, it worked then and it will work again.  If you are not patient, the organization will struggle like it did without direction in the many year before MOS came and we would have another long GC drought.

Yup an average team with a hell of a schedule and worries about health at QB.

My point was patience helped us on then past and can again.  Easy to crap on it now as we have hit the tail end of a great run.

Patience is a virtue.

[Blue In BC]

It's a consolation prize getting to the  Grey Cup but losing 3 in a row. We weren't really competitive in any of those 3 losses.

I have a different definition of " summit " than you do.  Neither of us can predict what the past would have been if we had fired O'Shea at the end of the 2018 season coming off a 10 - 8 win / loss. I think in his 1st 3 seasons we only won 15 games of 54. That's a lot of patience and failure.

Just checking draft history for 2020. We traded away the 9th pick in the 1st round in the Collaros trade. The Lions drafted Rourke at # 15. It was a good trade at the time but interesting how it worked out going forward.

[Blue In BC]

Ever hear of Chad Owens? Henry Williams? Both played as receivers and returners.

[Blueforlife]

It's a consolation prize getting to the  Grey Cup but losing 3 in a row. We weren't really competitive in any of those 3 losses.

I have a different definition of " summit " than you do.  Neither of us can predict what the past would have been if we had fired O'Shea at the end of the 2018 season coming off a 10 - 8 win / loss. I think in his 1st 3 seasons we only won 15 games of 54. That's a lot of patience and failure.

Just checking draft history for 2020. We traded away the 9th pick in the 1st round in the Collaros trade. The Lions drafted Rourke at # 15. It was a good trade at the time but interesting how it worked out going forward.

Coaching Record & MilestonesCareer Record: 117–77Franchise History: He is the winningest head coach in Winnipeg Blue Bombers history, surpassing Bud Grant's previous record.Tenure: Hired in December 2013, he is the longest-serving active head coach in the Canadian Football League (CFL).AchievementsGrey Cup Championships: 2 (2019, 2021)Grey Cup Appearances: Led the Blue Bombers to five consecutive Grey Cup appearances (2019–2024).Coach of the Year: Two-time winner of the Annis Stukus Trophy (2021, 2022).

Only the best record as head coach ever.  You are understating the greatest of this stretch and only focusing the challenges we have faced recently.

The challenges during his early days here were expected.  They were not failures, it was a rebuild and the creation of one of the best team cultures we will ever see.  We had sucked bad for a very long time.  The club found its footing and had a chance at a real dynasty.  The GC loses were hard but still amazing seasons.

Do you not remember our dominace on D? The many games were didn't give up a TD or something crazy like that? Our high powered offense with Harris and some great year with Brady.  A top OL.  Zach playing so brilliantly, even peak Strev was awesome.  This was a reaching the summit by any definition, only sour point not getting 3 in a row or 3 or 4 out of 5. 

In the next decade or so we will likely not see this level of success again.  Hope I'm wrong.

Looking back at what happened to that draft pick means absolutely nothing.  Lots of woulda shoulda coulda talk.  Easy to claim what is right after history has already been written.

If you were not pleased by this great run the Bombers had you never will be.

Ever hear of Chad Owens? Henry Williams? Both played as receivers and returners.

Rare exceptions to the rule.  Far from normal.  Giz was a generational talent.

We should get back on topic about Vaval.  Clearly the forum is split on this.  Plus and minus either way.  The risk of injury outways the benefits imo.

[Blue In BC]

Bud Grant was the best Bomber coach of all time. He won 4 Grey Cups in 5 years.

[Blueforlife]

Bud Grant was the best Bomber coach of all time. He won 4 Grey Cups in 5 years.

Sure but it doesn't take away the from greatness of MOS's run. 

[Blue In BC]

Sure but it doesn't take away the from greatness of MOS's run. 

He gets an A for longevity. Maybe a B or B- for long term success. What he did before the last 5 years is not relevant today.

We have seen nothing this year that supports a turn around to improve. We see an unwillingness to change.

[Blueforlife]

He gets an A for longevity. Maybe a B or B- for long term success. What he did before the last 5 years is not relevant today.

We have seen nothing this year that supports a turn around to improve. We see an unwillingness to change.

I don't forget then past and value it a little more than you.  Your grades are pretty accurate.  Like Ritchie my all time favorite, MOS has his weaknesses. 

[Pigskin]

We agree to disagree on most of your points. We're in year 5 of going downhill.

Last year we traded up to draft Shay. Calgary drafted Fortin 2 picks later. Shay spends most of his time on the bench. Fortin is the starting center in Calgary and we've got an import at center. We also traded up for our 1st global pick and released him this year. 

This year our 1st pick was Daniels. He might become a good player but he is not that yet. Did we really need to do that when we had Eli, MCI and others also trying to fill a role as an extra blocker? I guess time will tell, but we have too many similar players.

In 2025 a couple of teams lost there picks and we moved up to get Shay at #6.  2026 draft Gatkuoth was our 1st. pick and we traded up to get Daniels as our 2nd. pick.

[Tecno]

It's a consolation prize getting to the  Grey Cup but losing 3 in a row. We weren't really competitive in any of those 3 losses.

Uh, we were 100% competitive in all but the final GC, and that's because some DL had sharp fingernails.  The 1st TOR loss and the MTL loss we had a chance to win the game with a good final drive to kill the clock.  We failed in both, and the D couldn't hold.  But in both cases we were setup to win.

Funny, but the exact same problem we had vs EDM (and most games the last 2 seasons) is that when our O needs a final drive they simply cannot do it.  See also: my BE BOLD thread.

[Tecno]

The gap they are attempting to stuff should be the gap the running back is coming through!

Sounds easy.  Problem is you don't always know what gap that is, and it can change as the RB bounces around the line.

MOS/Younger make it pretty clear: you pro-actively take away all the gaps.  What I don't understand is how they hope to do that when you have 5-6 330 lb men trying to push you out of your gap-fill?

[Tecno]

Could have fooled me. Rankin still rushed for 100 yards.

Like I said before the game.  Holding Rankin to 100Y on the ground is a win when you play EDM.  Dude will get some yards.  We neutered him until later in the game.  We gave up some air yards, but it wasn't until very late he got some good ground yards.

I'd give our Rankin/Leake run-stop an A grade for that game.  It's not why we lost.

[Pigskin]

Could have fooled me. Rankin still rushed for 100 yards.

Rankin: 19/93 yards. 4.9 avg.
BO20:  16/118 yards. 7.4 avg.

Our D did a nice job holding Rankin to under a 100 yards and 4.9 yards per carry.