Bombers need a rebuild the team is going into the toilet.

[Shadow]

Complete overhaul required players and coaches. Over the hill Zac the  glass QB is paid too much and given too much say which is why we have the worst OC in Tommy Condel. Hired because  Zac wanted him. Defensive coordinators need to go as well when your defence gives up 400 yards on the ground shameful paperbag time for blue bomber fans who are the best in the league as this league would not exist without them paying the bills for the fanless teams.

[BlueInCgy]

We needed a rebuild two seasons ago, we just benefited from having the Elks and Stamps suck worse than us.  Now we're going to burn down.  If MOS doesn't make serious moves on the bye he will need to be shown the door.

[dd]

We needed a rebuild two seasons ago, we just benefited from having the Elks and Stamps suck worse than us.  Now we're going to burn down.  If MOS doesn't make serious moves on the bye he will need to be shown the door.

He ll put Jones back at MLB, but other than that, who's he going to put in on our dreadful offensive line!?! Who's going in for injured Kramdi ? We have no one waiting in the wings to start. I just hope brown or Collaros can start, as Elgersma is beyond bad. Not sure why Perkins didn't see the field, there's no way he could have done worse than elgersma, not possible.

[Tecno]

Can't blow it up mid-season unless you want to lose every single other game this season, and probably most of next season too.  That's what Chris Jones did everywhere he went and it was a total disaster for at least 1-2 seasons.

There are a ton of good players worth keeping.

The Dru situation is getting complicated, and I'll post thoughts on the Dru thread.  But when both your #1 and your #2 are glass QBs, then the odds of both being down (like right now) is non-zero, making the whole situation untenable.

I'm going to review footage to confirm, but it appears Stan is toast -- as in worse than Rand or Vant ever were at that position.  If Stan is nicked, Mafia needs to come out RIGHT NOW and admit he's nicked.  If he's healthy, and he's as bad as he appears, then he needs to be put on the 6G this instant and left there until FA when he can retire.  He still gets paid and he surely must realize he can't drag down the entire team & season.

Brady needs to take an instant pay cut to pay for the talent we need to airlift.  When ELC+$10k Horvath gets 200 & 2TDs and you get a crap 100 and 0 TDs and don't get us the yards when it really counts like in the red zone and 4th Q, then you don't deserve Kenny level money, sorry.

Zach needs to take an instant haircut too.  If he can never stay healthy, and the #2 is glass, then we can't ever keep him on the 6G -- because his injuries are transient and nebulous and every duration is discretionary -- so we never reap the 6G SMS savings, costing us dearly.  Maybe if Zach took a $200k haircut like he should he would have some freakin' OL to keep him from getting concussed!!

MOS & Willie are blaming in the post-games the D calls not coming in in time and not being communicated.  Uh, they don't know PAS is loud when D is on?  Newsflash?  So every Horvath run is just that?

No, what is happening is the D all gets very flat to the line on these edge runs and presents basically one layer the carrier needs to get through, and if they get through that and maybe a tiny DB they are home free.  And you're pitting tiny guys like Nichols and Holm and Kelly against raging bulls like Horvath!!  And no one adjusts even one bit after he rips them a new one?

What's most pathetic is our OL minus 1 starter was 10X worse than BC's down 3 starters (after Woodruff left).  Their 3rd & 4th string OL are better than at least half our top starters??  What in blazes is that?

Enough for now... more analysis later.  The sad part is, I'm not shocked we lost, I'm just shocked at how completely pathetically we lost.

[Blue In BC]

Can't blow it up mid-season unless you want to lose every single other game this season, and probably most of next season too.  That's what Chris Jones did everywhere he went and it was a total disaster for at least 1-2 seasons.

There are a ton of good players worth keeping.

The Dru situation is getting complicated, and I'll post thoughts on the Dru thread.  But when both your #1 and your #2 are glass QBs, then the odds of both being down (like right now) is non-zero, making the whole situation untenable.

I'm going to review footage to confirm, but it appears Stan is toast -- as in worse than Rand or Vant ever were at that position.  If Stan is nicked, Mafia needs to come out RIGHT NOW and admit he's nicked.  If he's healthy, and he's as bad as he appears, then he needs to be put on the 6G this instant and left there until FA when he can retire.  He still gets paid and he surely must realize he can't drag down the entire team & season.

Brady needs to take an instant pay cut to pay for the talent we need to airlift.  When ELC+$10k Horvath gets 200 & 2TDs and you get a crap 100 and 0 TDs and don't get us the yards when it really counts like in the red zone and 4th Q, then you don't deserve Kenny level money, sorry.

Zach needs to take an instant haircut too.  If he can never stay healthy, and the #2 is glass, then we can't ever keep him on the 6G -- because his injuries are transient and nebulous and every duration is discretionary -- so we never reap the 6G SMS savings, costing us dearly.  Maybe if Zach took a $200k haircut like he should he would have some freakin' OL to keep him from getting concussed!!

MOS & Willie are blaming in the post-games the D calls not coming in in time and not being communicated.  Uh, they don't know PAS is loud when D is on?  Newsflash?  So every Horvath run is just that?

No, what is happening is the D all gets very flat to the line on these edge runs and presents basically one layer the carrier needs to get through, and if they get through that and maybe a tiny DB they are home free.  And you're pitting tiny guys like Nichols and Holm and Kelly against raging bulls like Horvath!!  And no one adjusts even one bit after he rips them a new one?

What's most pathetic is our OL minus 1 starter was 10X worse than BC's down 3 starters (after Woodruff left).  Their 3rd & 4th string OL are better than at least half our top starters??  What in blazes is that?

Enough for now... more analysis later.  The sad part is, I'm not shocked we lost, I'm just shocked at how completely pathetically we lost.

I'm not opposed to some players taking a pay cut to match their performance levels. That said, where would we spend more SMS room?

[Waffler]

I am going to say no to a blow up for now. We are where Calgary was a couple years ago. They kept Dickenson and turned it around. I would like to see Miller asking both Walters and MOS what they are doing to make this better going forward. Stay the course is not an answer I would want to hear.

Scouting/recruitment needs to be over hauled entirely. Younger needs to be gone. Not all his fault but you have to start somewhere.

[3rdand1.5]

My 2 cents, you could swap player in and out, you could try tweeks or overhauls positionally....you could but on offence Condell is not setting the guys we have up to be successful. On defence it is even worse, we stack the roster defence heavy, import heavy and no one can play consistently. It's not the players it is 100% the scheme....No team that gives up 400 yards rushing against has few bad players, they have incompetent schemes. Full stop

Buck owned JY, he showed up at his school, took his lunch money, his money, his shirt, his pants and his girlfriend and JY couldn't stop him from doing any of it.....it was that bad...

There is no easy fix, but to the public let Hall "help" more, behind the scenes let Hall take over completely.....Save the optics but JY should be done as D coordinator.....Virtually every otherteams OC has schooled him this season....and buck just did it with half a roster and a QB who can't throw.....

[Jesse]

Yeah, kinda.

We spent the money in free agency to bring in all these pieces that were supposed to fix our areas of weakness over the last couple of years, but now we're worse than ever. I never want to over-react or not give respect to the success that this franchise has enjoyed over the past few years, but the downward spiral is evident and getting faster.

The home games have not been enjoyable to watch. The sell out streak is over - and that's during the July games with beautiful weather.

They need to attempt something. Because the status quo is going to get real old, real fast.

[DM83]

We have two great receivers, and three useless sixth option guys.  Kelsey, #83, Cobb, and some other guy, can not play CFL football.
Defensively, Nicolas is scared and never puts his body in an attempt at tackling.

We need an American Slot or wide. We have no speed to threaten anything. Three slow compared to Americans, Canadians, with one reception a game. Our QBs have no one to throw to. Give Denmark a call. Hold an open try out for A,Erica's.

O'Shea?? You looked the most Dow ever. Your defensive coordinator, really he looks really clued out, get Hall back.

Trestman isn't working for anyone? Get him up. Pay him. Get Lapo back. Pay him. O linemen? Stan is done.  If you want to pretend you have a QB that can have success, without escapeability, you are nuts.

When BCs starter comes back, grab this BC 3rd stringer. Or get Ford.

Do something, or get off the field and go back to Ontario.
Get Lamcasters kid. Quit making excuses. Wade what are you paying these guys for. Walter's has been wonderful.

[DM83]

What's the news? Have they cut Younger and Cordell and Stanley and hired Trestman  back and moved Hall back and out of the Old Folls home?  And they honored him last night...get him working again. Adam Bighill, vs.,Younger?,not even a contest.

Please get rid of the 400 yards against man.  Did Younger actually play CFL football? Was he ever concussed?  377 yards rushing against his pop warmer defence. Linebackers and HBs who can't set the edge, would not play high school football in Winnioeg. Set the fricken edge and turn the RB.,  back inside,  where was the contain on that QB., then later on any record setting back.

Wouldn't Brady like to play a Winnipeg defence?

Here's step one. Line up on press coverage take away a pre-snap read, then drop to wherever you want. . Play a "cut" coverage with the corners in the flat. That all Sask, Edm, amd NC had any success doing. We have our corners pre snap aligned at 15! Then they vacant even deeper. Essentially , you and I can throw,successfully to the flat. Guarantee Nichols will be 40 yards down field. He should be moved to safety, or the PITTouch football league.....who am I kidding you have to cover guys, in a passing league.

What gets me, is this is a passing league, where if you cover the flats, Fajardo, and the back up in Toronto don't win.  It's killing me. The kid from Deons. Coaching place, isn't successful. Secondly, if the corner is in the flat, and the scrambler from BC now has that corner from the flat sitting. In ancient times,one of either the Outside LB had the back out of the backfield and the middle came over to the vacated  spot.  It's 2026. Backs or rolling out QBs will kill A linebacker when they get outside.  So we are seeing a defensive conscept that is so old it's literally ********. It didn't work then, amd watching this 50 year old. Idea is again so old and inappropriate in 2000, it's unbelievable.  Younger, where and when are you coming from?

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I am going to say no to a blow up for now. We are where Calgary was a couple years ago. They kept Dickenson and turned it around. I would like to see Miller asking both Walters and MOS what they are doing to make this better going forward. Stay the course is not an answer I would want to hear.

Scouting/recruitment needs to be over hauled entirely. Younger needs to be gone. Not all his fault but you have to start somewhere.

Agree it's not a lack of talent, they've brought in a lot of very good players in the last 3 years and have almost completely overhauled the old team.  The 2 co-ords are not doing their jobs and require immediate direction/correction from above.  Hopefully the coaching staff takes the time to resolve these matters over the bye week and come back with a new approach.

On Bonfire After Dark, Zach proposed that Condell set Brady up for failure last night for badmouthing his offence last week.  I had the same suspicion based on the interview Condell did last week, after all Brady is threatening his job so he has the right to be combative and defensive when attacked, but all in all it's very bad for the team dynamic.  Brady thinks he can get yards in any situation, but we all know if the opponent suspects he's getting the ball on every play they can easily shut him down.  Condell did this at least 3 times in the redzone last night, putting the burden on Brady to get the ball in the endzone when that was the obvious play and settling for 3 pts. instead of 6.

O'Shea needs to quash this feud if real and Brady needs to keep his pie hole shut from now on, no one player is above the team.

[bunker]

Agree it's not a lack of talent, they've brought in a lot of very good players in the last 3 years and have almost completely overhauled the old team.  The 2 co-ords are not doing their job and require immediate direction/correction from above.  Hopefully the coaching staff takes the time to resolve these matters over the bye week and comes back with a new apporach.

On Bonfire After Dark, Zach proposed that Condell set Brady up for failure last night for badmouthing his offence last week.  I had the same suspicion based on the interview Condell did last week, after all Brady is threatening his job so he has the right to be combative and defensive when attacked, but all in all it's very bad for the team dynamic.  Brady thinks he can get yards in any situation, but we all know if the opponent suspects he's getting the ball on every play they can easily shut him down.  Condell did this at least 3 times in the redzone last night, putting the burden on Brady to get the ball in the endzone when that was the obvious play and settling for 3 pts. instead of 6.

O'Shea needs to quash this feud if real and Brady needs to keep his pie hole shut from now on, no one player is above the team.

I disagree. Look at this roster compared to 2019 or 2021. Particularly the O-line and the level of QB play. There is a huge talent disparity.

[theaardvark]

Rebuild is an offseason tactic.  There is nothing that you can do in that vein right now.

[kkc60]

A top 3 pick in the CFL draft would be a good place to start but won't have that

[Blueforlife]

What's the news? Have they cut Younger and Cordell and Stanley and hired Trestman  back and moved Hall back and out of the Old Folls home?  And they honored him last night...get him working again. Adam Bighill, vs.,Younger?,not even a contest.

Please get rid of the 400 yards against man.  Did Younger actually play CFL football? Was he ever concussed?  377 yards rushing against his pop warmer defence. Linebackers and HBs who can't set the edge, would not play high school football in Winnioeg. Set the fricken edge and turn the RB.,  back inside,  where was the contain on that QB., then later on any record setting back.

Wouldn't Brady like to play a Winnipeg defence?

Here's step one. Line up on press coverage take away a pre-snap read, then drop to wherever you want. . Play a "cut" coverage with the corners in the flat. That all Sask, Edm, amd NC had any success doing. We have our corners pre snap aligned at 15! Then they vacant even deeper. Essentially , you and I can throw,successfully to the flat. Guarantee Nichols will be 40 yards down field. He should be moved to safety, or the PITTouch football league.....who am I kidding you have to cover guys, in a passing league.

What gets me, is this is a passing league, where if you cover the flats, Fajardo, and the back up in Toronto don't win.  It's killing me. The kid from Deons. Coaching place, isn't successful. Secondly, if the corner is in the flat, and the scrambler from BC now has that corner from the flat sitting. In ancient times,one of either the Outside LB had the back out of the backfield and the middle came over to the vacated  spot.  It's 2026. Backs or rolling out QBs will kill A linebacker when they get outside.  So we are seeing a defensive conscept that is so old it's literally ********. It didn't work then, amd watching this 50 year old. Idea is again so old and inappropriate in 2000, it's unbelievable.  Younger, where and when are you coming from?

Ritchie Hall gave us one of the best runs on D this club has ever went through.

You called for his head pre mini dynasty and now you are suggesting that he goes to the retirement home which is so disrespectful.

Nichols at safety would be a disaster.

Adam was an elite LB wouldn't make him a good coach.  Younger is a decent coach and light years ahead of Biggie in that regard.

Younger played almost a decade in the CFL and has two cups as a player.  Give him some respect.  Asking if he was every concussed is so disrespectful.

Yes lots of problems on D but no need to get nasty about one of the best defensive minds we have seen and his understudy who is a little down and out currently.

We need a change but you can't blow it up right now, that will come in the offseason likely.

[Pete]

Rebuild isn't really a thing in the cfl with the number of players on one year contracts.
Theres really two things that this or any team needs:
A decent qb... if we continue to tank we absolutely need to see what Elgersma is capable of
B a good oline. Sask turnaround happened when they went after key pieces in the oline
Elks also invested heavily here. (you could easily argue the biggest reason for our downturn is reflected in the quality of our o line and the lack of succession planning here, not drafting effecively hasnt helped)
Most other areas you can find talent thru nfl cuts etc

[Tecno]

A decent qb... if we continue to tank we absolutely need to see what Elgersma is capable of

Elgs is capable of absolutely nothing right now.  And there's a 50/50 chance we'll get a great illustration of that in 2 weeks!!

The question really is, can Elgs do something in 2-3 seasons.  That remains to be seen.  Rourke & Alexander had to wait 2-3 seasons before starting too.

[Jesse]

Starting a rookie behind a suspect OL isn't really the best way to see what he's capable of. He's perfectly fine just where he is. Maybe he gets the last start of the season to get his feet wet.

[Horseman]

Rebuild is an offseason tactic.  There is nothing that you can do in that vein right now.

1000% correct, there are no good players waiting by the phone to be brought in to correct what ails us. We are stuck with what we have for the rest of this season then we can blow it up and rebuild. Our current team will be last in the west and there is nothing we can realistically do about it, except make cosmetic changes with the players we have here now.

[Tecno]

Our current team will be last in the west and there is nothing we can realistically do about it, except make cosmetic changes with the players we have here now.

And if that's the case, shouldn't Mafia admit it and start the prep for a better 2027??  i.e. Start the "future" like Shay & Smith, and ditch the ones who won't be re-signed in '27.

There are also other-team vet cuts coming up.  We've been successful in the past finding cast-offs that would work better in our systems.

[Blue In BC]

And if that's the case, shouldn't Mafia admit it and start the prep for a better 2027??  i.e. Start the "future" like Shay & Smith, and ditch the ones who won't be re-signed in '27.

There are also other-team vet cuts coming up.  We've been successful in the past finding cast-offs that would work better in our systems.

Especially when you consider veteran cut down rapidly approaching. I'm not 100% certain but I think it's the upcoming game.

Does O'Shea have the balls to make some changes? If he doesn't and we get smoked by the Redblacks there will be lots of discussions on what is or is not being done.

We thought beating the Redblacks before was a slam dunk. Now we're crossing our fingers.

[Blue In BC]

1000% correct, there are no good players waiting by the phone to be brought in to correct what ails us. We are stuck with what we have for the rest of this season then we can blow it up and rebuild. Our current team will be last in the west and there is nothing we can realistically do about it, except make cosmetic changes with the players we have here now.

That's not entirely true. S. Lemon would have been a good short term rental instead of Reese on the AR. I like Reese but he's still learning. Even adding him as an extra DL in rotation by making a change with our DI situation.

Same thing with G. Lewis if not for the ratio choice issues.

The Riders picked up the 2026 UFL defensive MVP in Robertson and he looked pretty good in his 1st game.

[Waffler]

MOS wants a certain kind of player. Lemon would not fit in here.

MOS's style worked great with a mostly vet team loaded with the best players at their position, just refer to the allstar selections of years past when we won. But to be so stubborn and loyal as to think THIS group can win like that? SOMETHING needs to change but it won't.

I feel like Younger's defense is going to look even worse with a shorter field. I can see a complete blowup similar to the Cal Murphy purge that brought in Reinbold happening in about 18 months time.

All we really need to do is recruit better and turf Younger.

[Blue In BC]

MOS wants a certain kind of player. Lemon would not fit in here.

MOS's style worked great with a mostly vet team loaded with the best players at their position, just refer to the allstar selections of years past when we won. But to be so stubborn and loyal as to think THIS group can win like that? SOMETHING needs to change but it won't.

I feel like Younger's defense is going to look even worse with a shorter field. I can see a complete blowup similar to the Cal Murphy purge that brought in Reinbold happening in about 18 months time.

All we really need to do is recruit better and turf Younger.

Hard to say Lemon would not be a good fit for O'Shea. At best he would have been a short term rental for the rest of the season. It would be difficult to say he's not a better player and improvement to Reese TODAY.

Mauldin was another player that became available recently signed by the Lions.  Robertson( UFL ) in Regina. All recorded stats and 2 recorded sacks.

O'Shea might " want " a certain type of player but winning versus losing trumps everything. Losing trend is more than a  blip of a few games. Status quo is not working.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Hard to say Lemon would not be a good fit for O'Shea. At best he would have been a short term rental for the rest of the season. It would be difficult to say he's not a better player and improvement to Reese TODAY.

Mauldin was another player that became available recently signed by the Lions.  Robertson( UFL ) in Regina. All recorded stats and 2 recorded sacks.

O'Shea might " want " a certain type of player but winning versus losing trumps everything. Losing trend is more than a  blip of a few games. Status quo is not working.

What are you trying to fix by bringing in Lemon, Ceresna and Willie are at the top of the league for QB sacks, why bring in another pass rusher a decade past his prime playing age? 

If anything they need a thick run stopping DT, the problem with pursuing sacks is it allows the D-line to neglect their other duties like containment and run stopping.  The D-line is supposed to be the first line of defence against the run, they shouldn't be relying on the MLB or the d-backs to clean up the mess while they pursue personal stats. Despite the sacks, I really question whether the D-line had a good game against BC when they allowed so much damage along the ground.

[LXTSN]

What are the main gripes with Condell?
I've been watching this season, and I've been relatively happy with the actual run game design. He uses lots of misdirection and it's not just a simple run up the middle like last season.
In the passing game we are now designed to include those mid-range dig routes and comeback routes that we see other teams gash us with. Historically Calgary and Hamilton have killed us with those ones.

My main gripe would be play-calling in game. But that's the toughest part. You have to stay a step ahead of the defensive play-calling, and balance out the run/pass game to keep the defense honest.

I don't think there's one thing that I could point to as the simple fix.

These are the 2 biggest things killing us on offence:

1. I think if we had a top end QB we would be in a different spot right now. Zach is getting old and Dru is probably the best backup in the league, but not much more. Having the 9th + 10th best QB's in the league does nothing. I think we'd all prefer Hamilton's situation where they have a top 3 QB, and then 2 of the worst backups in the league! It's championship or bust!

2. ZERO friskiness. 3rd and 2 on the opponents 5 yard line early in the game... GO FOR IT. I don't want to even get into this. It's really simple, you have to take some chances and that would be a very calculated risk for a reward much bigger than just 7 points. The other side of this is taking some chances in the passing game. We need to keep opposing defenses on their toes with downfield passes and maybe the odd trick play... Double pass, flee-flicker, reverse... Whatever it takes! Empty the clip!

[Tecno]

My main gripe would be play-calling in game. But that's the toughest part. You have to stay a step ahead of the defensive play-calling, and balance out the run/pass game to keep the defense honest.

Ya, Condell is not our biggest problem, or even really any problem at all.  That said, BC guessed our "is it run or pass" correctly about 80% of the time.  The LBers and FS cheated up appropriately, pre-snap.

That 2-3 crossers, but most everyone stays in the box look isn't fooling anyone.  And Condell doesn't break the tendency enough.  We're telegraphing our plays and it really hurts us.

So many other teams I have no freakin' idea what they are going to do most downs -- but with us I can predict it correctly about the same as BC did!  That's never good.

[Tecno]

If anything they need a thick run stopping DT

Ceresna is supposed to be doing that.  But he's actually not great at shedding.  And other team OL hold the heck out of you, legally, to stop the shed.

Not only can our DL not shed, but other DL's have no problem shedding our OL because ours don't hold & get physical!!  It's like the worst of every world.

Even though our pass rush has gotten pretty good, our DL run stop is actually worse than last season, and the worst its been since maybe 2016.  Which is pretty sad, because I think we have a pretty great set of guys on the DL.  Also, Fletcher may not be great at run stop, but he is good at pass rush.

I'm not sure what the solution is.

[Tecno]

Especially when you consider veteran cut down rapidly approaching. I'm not 100% certain but I think it's the upcoming game.

Does O'Shea have the balls to make some changes?

I would not be surprised to see one of the new FAs cut: Moxey or White.  White shouldn't because he's one of the only guys getting TDs, but he probably hasn't been as YDS productive as we would have liked.

Moxey is very much at risk, though.  All depends how they've decided to grade him out.  As for forever-Bomber vets -- they never get cut mid-season.

[Blueforlife]

I would not be surprised to see one of the new FAs cut: Moxey or White.  White shouldn't because he's one of the only guys getting TDs, but he probably hasn't been as YDS productive as we would have liked.

Moxey is very much at risk, though.  All depends how they've decided to grade him out.  As for forever-Bomber vets -- they never get cut mid-season.

Neither is getting cut imo paying 100 to 1 for White
10 to 1 for Moxie

[Jesse]

Ya, Condell is not our biggest problem, or even really any problem at all.  That said, BC guessed our "is it run or pass" correctly about 80% of the time.  The LBers and FS cheated up appropriately, pre-snap.

That 2-3 crossers, but most everyone stays in the box look isn't fooling anyone.  And Condell doesn't break the tendency enough.  We're telegraphing our plays and it really hurts us.

So many other teams I have no freakin' idea what they are going to do most downs -- but with us I can predict it correctly about the same as BC did!  That's never good.

I disagree completely. It feels like all our problems stem from the play calls and system. And you list a few of the reasons why.

[LXTSN]

I disagree completely. It feels like all our problems stem from the play calls and system. And you list a few of the reasons why.

I believe that the system is actually pretty good. They just need to be a little less predictable.
Unfortunately that means passing on first down and sometimes running on second and longish. 2 things that this forum would flame him for if he tried.

Those seasons where Zach played so well, he was excellent at reading the defense and making the throw. He also would roll out a little more and avoided pressure from inside the pocket. These are all things he's now struggling to do when he's healthy, and our backups struggle with it too.

QB play is more important than anything in this league and it really shows.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I believe that the system is actually pretty good. They just need to be a little less predictable.
Unfortunately that means passing on first down and sometimes running on second and longish. 2 things that this forum would flame him for if he tried.

Those seasons where Zach played so well, he was excellent at reading the defense and making the throw. He also would roll out a little more and avoided pressure from inside the pocket. These are all things he's now struggling to do when he's healthy, and our backups struggle with it too.

QB play is more important than anything in this league and it really shows.

50/50 IMO, if they can't find more ways to win games both the QB's and the system are at fault.  With a decent offence they should have outscored BC well before the defence collapsed.  If the offence continues to perform poorly late into the season, I believe Condell will not be brought back next year.

[Jesse]

I believe that the system is actually pretty good. They just need to be a little less predictable.
Unfortunately that means passing on first down and sometimes running on second and longish. 2 things that this forum would flame him for if he tried.

Those seasons where Zach played so well, he was excellent at reading the defense and making the throw. He also would roll out a little more and avoided pressure from inside the pocket. These are all things he's now struggling to do when he's healthy, and our backups struggle with it too.

QB play is more important than anything in this league and it really shows.

The system is predictable, it has too many players in the same areas of the field, it's wasting a player in having Brady sprint out wide, it doesn't have a hot read, all of this leads to the worst red zone offence in the league and the league-worst turn-over ratio.

[LXTSN]

50/50 IMO, if they can't find more ways to win games both the QB's and the system are at fault.  With a decent offence they should have outscored BC well before the defence collapsed.  If the offence continues to perform poorly late into the season, I believe Condell will not be brought back next year.

Drives 2 and 3 they got inside the 10 before kicking a FG on 3rd and 2. I'd argue that they were in a groove and killed any potential momentum after kicking FG's.

[LXTSN]

The system is predictable, it has too many players in the same areas of the field, it's wasting a player in having Brady sprint out wide, it doesn't have a hot read, all of this leads to the worst red zone offence in the league and the league-worst turn-over ratio.

The hot read is a legitimate concern but I don't think spacing has been an issue. We've had a lot more midrange looks this year over last year but we do run away from it at times.
For some reason last game, we pulled 4(ish) WR screen plays? I guess that was a counter for stacking the box? We we're getting 2 yards on first down each time from those. I think there is enough built into our offence to be successful but we lack some offensive firepower. Our best offensive weapons are Brady, Demski, Wilson and White. After that it's a steep dropoff.

My point is that I think our players are more to blame than the coaches.

[Jesse]

The hot read is a legitimate concern but I don't think spacing has been an issue. We've had a lot more midrange looks this year over last year but we do run away from it at times.
For some reason last game, we pulled 4(ish) WR screen plays? I guess that was a counter for stacking the box? We we're getting 2 yards on first down each time from those. I think there is enough built into our offence to be successful but we lack some offensive firepower. Our best offensive weapons are Brady, Demski, Wilson and White. After that it's a steep dropoff.

My point is that I think our players are more to blame than the coaches.

I'm limited by the TV view half the time, but it sure feels like we have a lot of guys always bunched together. Which means all the defenders are there too. It doesn't feel like we ever scheme our receivers into space. Best we can do is the comeback routes ad nauseum.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Drives 2 and 3 they got inside the 10 before kicking a FG on 3rd and 2. I'd argue that they were in a groove and killed any potential momentum after kicking FG's.

It shouldn't have come down to FG's, they kicked FG's because Brown failed to get a first down or put them into the endzone. That could be his fault or the play calling, but I think Brady was repeatedly stuffed in the red-zone.

[Jesse]

It shouldn't have come down to FG's, they kicked FG's because Brown failed to get a first down or put them into the endzone. That could be his fault or the play calling, but I think Brady was repeatedly stuffed in the red-zone.

Brady stuffed? When the D is clogging the middle and we do a dive down the middle???

[Tecno]

Brady stuffed? When the D is clogging the middle and we do a dive down the middle???

Why we refuse to do RPO and read the D is totally beyond me.  BC D was telegraphing when they guessed run, and it was abundantly clear certainly by the time the ball hit Dru's hands.

Any half-decent O would rip that D a new one with a quick hitter on those looks.

And a flea flicker where he gives it to Brady who chucks it back would be devastating as entire D's cheat up to stop Brady.  You'd get 1-on-1 for every other REC, or less!!  And absolutely no one would follow Daniels or Eli out.

It's pathetic we have these perfect setups because we're 100% predictable and yet can't ever make anyone pay.

[Jesse]

Why we refuse to do RPO and read the D is totally beyond me.  BC D was telegraphing when they guessed run, and it was abundantly clear certainly by the time the ball hit Dru's hands.

Any half-decent O would rip that D a new one with a quick hitter on those looks.

And a flea flicker where he gives it to Brady who chucks it back would be devastating as entire D's cheat up to stop Brady.  You'd get 1-on-1 for every other REC, or less!!  And absolutely no one would follow Daniels or Eli out.

It's pathetic we have these perfect setups because we're 100% predictable and yet can't ever make anyone pay.

Never suggest a flea flicker to MOS, he'll laugh at you. Cheap trick/not real football.

[Tecno]

Never suggest a flea flicker to MOS, he'll laugh at you. Cheap trick/not real football.

Tell that to Buck and Dinwiddie!