Collaros

[Tecno]

Could the DC be Taylor, Bryce and Dru if Zach is on the IR?

I too could see that if Zach is out.  I too wouldn't mind seeing Perkins possibly play.  Not as a platoon, but maybe if Elgersma has stunk it up by halftime you switch to Perkins.

It's not like Elgersma looked that much better than Perkins in PS.  Mafia won't rush Dru in too much sooner than their plan was all along.  The problem is we don't don't what the plan was/is.  If Dru was set to be #2 by week 7, then we might move him up to week 6.  But if the plan was week 12 or 21... no way he's #2 in week 6.  Nope, we'd roll with our preset plan, and Dru dresses as a "just for show" #3.

[Tecno]

I don't share you optimism, for about the 10th time in the last couple of years I saw Zach take the field play lackadaisically and put the team behind the eight ball, he was only half way there but headed in that direction when he got knocked out.

"lackadaisically" surely isn't the best word here.  Though I think I get what you're saying.  Yes, he/we often get a bad start.  Heck, look at the EDM game, get the ball and go 2 & out!  That's so common for us.  It's horrible.

But did Condell put Zach in a good position to start this last game?  How many years have I been screaming "our short game sucks!"... and Condell dials up an "everyone curls" scheme?  The play that has lost us GCs?  Zach can't execute that!  He hasn't since maybe '21.  Bad teams will disrupt that pass, and good teams will INT it.  So why are we running it?  That's just stupid.

Remember '18 and '19 when Lapo would start games with Nichols chucking a bomb?  Where did that go?  Why not something to play on the whole world thinking it's a Brady run for play #1?  A flea-flicker, after handoff to Brady, to Tim with jumbo protection would be perfect.

Unlike Mace and T.Harris, and Dinwiddie with Arbuckle, and Milanovitch with Bo, we seem to be incapable of admitting Zach's shortcomings and shifting schemes to his strengths.  We seem to be incapable of identifying his lack of zip, extra mini-pumps, and lack of looking off.

It's as if the whole organization thinks an everyone-curls route will be 100% for Zach, when it's actually roughly 25%.  Am I the only one who sees this?

[Tecno]

Hello Jets for life you SHUt UP he has been terrible for years now especially in grey cups 22,23, 24.

Zach almost won '22 (would have if we didn't short-route on 2nd down), almost won '23 (also a short route failure, and a sad D breakdown on 3rd down).  Don't pin those only on Zach.  We shouldn't have called conservative short routes on our ahead-now-just-kill-the-clock drives.  (See also: my BE BOLD thread from around that time.)

'24 we'll never know because of severed thumb, but it's not like Kenny & the gang were helping out, putting their feet OOB by a mm.  It's like nobody wanted to win that day.

Funny, but you aren't complaining Zach got us to those 3 cups.

[Tecno]

Going back to last year, if these small hits are taking you out of the game - whether for concussion or precautioning against it, I think it's impossible for a team to depend on you as a starting QB. It happened several times last year and now again.

And yet here we are, 3+ years of the same thing.  And it still kind of works out for us.  The key is having the protection not blow a free blind pass rush like that.

Elgersma was incredibly ineffective though. Not sure what you were seeing out there. Shortened play book obviously, but he was unable to move down the field 4 yards at a time.

He was totally effective in doing what we asked and allowed.  You think he had go route options Mafia was giving him but he just ignored?  Any deeper route was just to clear the shorter ones -- except that one masterful "keep them honest" shot.

I'm pretty sure he was way more accurate in terms of completions than Ford & Dolegala.  Might have had more than both of those never-weres combined.  And those guys have like a combined 10 years in the league!!  He was way cooler than Ford.  He calmly went through his progressions and took what the D was giving him.

If you want to say he was ineffective, then I implore you to look at Condell instead.  And even Condell was effective because we gambled we could win a game of field position and score enough and hold HAM to less.  And they were right.

[Tecno]

Zach would never leave a game in progress if there was any option to stay.  Keeping his helmet on both sends mixed signals to the other team and protects him.

Nope, not when it's the ol' woozy feeling.  Zach & Mafia have an understanding that any wooze-inducing hit and he's coming out.  MAYBE in a GC he'll stay in.  Maybe.  Zach is clearly over his "I'll play through anything" Alexander point in life.  He wants to win, but he wants to not be drooling in a wheelchair more.

[Tecno]

Yes his mad his name throwing med/long balls on a dime but saying that Taylor's short game > Zach's after one reg. Season game is a huge stretch.  You have been cooking a narrative that we need to focus on the short game and a few others have suggested the same.  Your new claim here is simply tacking on to that narrative imo.

Guilty on all counts.  Astute read of the situation.

It's driven by how the best teams are winning right now, and the known limitations of the older QBs.  Especially SSK.  Study SSK.  And now add in our lack of success by trying to have Zach play full-field like he's BLM or 2019 Zach.  Double down by seeing our middling REC corps...

Creating & mastering a short SSK-style game isn't the only possible path to success, but it certainly is an avenue to explore.  If we could only create half the short game success of SSK, and add in Zach's far better mid/deep game, we'd be much better than SSK and winning cups!!

But if we can't or won't help Zach improve in the short game, we should completely dump it.  Ixnay.  Bye.  It's brought nothing but loss and misery every time we've relied on it.  What other QB gets INT'd on a short curl to the nearest slot on the first play?

As for Elgersma, he has a bit more zip, a faster wind, and that's the entire difference between an INT and a completion with YAC.  Will he fare worse now that teams have film?  Sure.  Will he have to be given a bit more mid passes to keep D's honest.  Yes.  But I'm telling you right now that if Zach was in and we played that exact same short-only scheme then we lose that game... because our short game has been hot garbage with Zach for many seasons.  This isn't even up for debate.

[Tecno]

You could hear and see Zach mouth "what happened?" after being picked up by his teammates

I looked again and you're right, he seems to mouth "what happened".  I don't hear it though, not on the live shot anyway.

However, instead of being like "I was knocked out and don't remember anything 2 seconds before the hit", he could just be (in effect) asking "I think I lost the ball, did we get it back"?

I'm positive he was never knocked out because immediately after putting his hands to his eyes he holds his index fingers up like he's saying "I'm ok" or "I need 1 minute".

[DM83]

We are rudderless. Zac can't handle the contact. Yes, a bump even sets his brain in motion. And that's within his skull.For his safety, he must retire.

I only guess that's why the team jumped at getting Brown back. He can escape the pressure, buy time, and at points of his young career was able to find secondary receivers.

Brady looked awesome. The boys can live with a run based attack, with Brown converting second and short. Do it.

[Jesse]

And yet here we are, 3+ years of the same thing.  And it still kind of works out for us.  The key is having the protection not blow a free blind pass rush like that.

I'm fairly sure last year was the first season he was pulled like that multiple times over the course of the season. I think it happened 4+ times.

And last season was not an example of it working for us.

[Blueforlife]

We are rudderless. Zac can't handle the contact. Yes, a bump even sets his brain in motion. And that's within his skull.For his safety, he must retire.

I only guess that's why the team jumped at getting Brown back. He can escape the pressure, buy time, and at points of his young career was able to find secondary receivers.

Brady looked awesome. The boys can live with a run based attack, with Brown converting second and short. Do it.

We are not rudderless, our captain took a cannon ball in the blind side but might recover and take the control back.  In the meantime our 2nd in command is back from training overseas.

[blue_gold_84]

There's no doubt Collaros' best days are behind him, but Brown is more than capable and Elgersma has a ton of potential.

I think it's an exaggeration to imply the team is rudderless.

[The Zipp]

I looked again and you're right, he seems to mouth "what happened".  I don't hear it though, not on the live shot anyway.

However, instead of being like "I was knocked out and don't remember anything 2 seconds before the hit", he could just be (in effect) asking "I think I lost the ball, did we get it back"?

I'm positive he was never knocked out because immediately after putting his hands to his eyes he holds his index fingers up like he's saying "I'm ok" or "I need 1 minute".

We was probably wondering what happened to the blocking scheme that got him hit.  Zach is all football all the time - that is how a pro QB thinks and operates, he is already trying to figure out what happened on that particular play that saw it fail so miserably.

[GOLDMEMBER]

There's no doubt Collaros' best days are behind him, but Brown is more than capable and Elgersma has a ton of potential.

I think it's an exaggeration to imply the team is rudderless.

I think he means when Zach gets pulled every other game rudderless is yes a slight exaggeration but it certainly can disrupt continuity and flow of QBs are changing constantly.

[3rdand1.5]

Short week, very short one practice. I don't see Zach recovered in time but I could be wrong. Can we activate Brown on one practice....not ideal, So does TE start?

Zach got us over our drought, and took us to five GC's he has bled enough Blue and gold to deserve as someone before said a heroes salute, but.......objectively his play fell off last year, he has looked possibly better this year, but the last two years he has missed a ton of time, perhaps as hard as it is to say he needs to be looking at calling it, and as a staff perhaps we need to be thinking about getting Brown up to speed and transitioning now?

[blue_or_die]

We are naturally watching the inevitable transition occur before our eyes and everybody should be OK with it. Even the biggest Collaros fanboi (I consider myself one) has to admit that he was one of the best QBs to ever wear the jersey but he's in his late 30s and has a long head and neck injury history. He was never going to play like it's 2021 forever and for about a year we were wondering what a transition would look like.

Not long ago we had Streveler and Wilson behind him and now we have Elgersma, Brown and Perkins. I feel really good about that and if Zach misses lots of time this year and this is actually it for him, I'm still really excited to see what these guys can do and get us back to the big game soon I hope.

With all that said, a healthy Zach can still play at a high level. He still has an arm (accuracy is down significantly, though) and can still scramble (speed and elusiveness is down significantly too) and so I expect that when he's fully available, he gets a chance to go out on a high note and take his long year of preparation to its logical conclusion. Until he's fully available though, I want to give him as much time in a ballcap as possible and let the next crop duke it out and get us excited for the future