Collaros

[GOLDMEMBER]

You can't be a starting quarterback and get pulled for precaution or injury every time someone touches your upper back.

Whatever his neck injury, it's not going away.

He deserves a hero's send off and to be celebrated as one of the best Blue Bombers in history, but it's time, both from a play on the field perspective and a practical one.

That makes the Dru Brown return make all the sense in the world.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I think, if Zach is on the IR, we see Elgersma start.  I wouldn't be surprised if Dru is second on the DC, and comes in if Taylor really struggles.

But I would love to see what Perkins could do, though.  Its not like he doesn't have a pedigree, UFL MVP is nothing to sneeze at.  He, no doubt, came here to take it to the next level in the CFL, and maybe get another NFL look.  He's not getting that chance at 4 on the DC on a .500 team.

Could the DC be Taylor, Bryce and Dru if Zach is on the IR?

Did you watch the pre-season?  Great mobility but not a great arm, also didn't look as good as Elgersma in reading what the defence was giving him.

[bunker]

Did you watch the pre-season?  Great mobility but not a great arm, also didn't look as good as Elgersma in reading what the defence was giving him.

Yeah, verdict seems to be in on Perkins, very good short yardage option, but bottom of the depth chart for actually running an offense. Not the worst position to be in, Tommy Stevens has made a nice career out of it.

[Blue72]

Before talking about replacing Zac why don't you talk about the O line. Especially Bryant at 40, Zac is getting hit from the blind side and the opposition defense are a lot faster now. Bryant was getting beat last year and MOS didn't replace him. No QB will look good behind this line. That is on MOS and Walters, bringing or keeping the wrong guys.

[dd]

Hope Collaros is ok and if so, he plays, if not, we start Brown, he has the most CFL experience. Elgersma didn't look good yesterday at all, aside from the shuffle pass/TD, he was non eventful. Still young, still upside, but go with experience and put Brown in if ZC8 can't go.

[theaardvark]

Before talking about replacing Zac why don't you talk about the O line. Especially Bryant at 40, Zac is getting hit from the blind side and the opposition defense are a lot faster now. Bryant was getting beat last year and MOS didn't replace him. No QB will look good behind this line. That is on MOS and Walters, bringing or keeping the wrong guys.

Maybe swapping Broxton and Bryant?

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Maybe swapping Broxton and Bryant?

Maybe swapping Broxton for Byant and then Bryant to the reserve.

I lobbied for this in the off-season. O'Shea is a great coach but he has a habit of letting people stay longer than they should.  No one should be surprised that a 40-year-old tackle is struggling some.

[Pete]

I rewatched the hit on Zac, I really dont get how hes injured on that play. It wasn't a hard hit, and if that causes a inury or reinjury then Zac is too fragile to be on the field. Torontos chatfield has crushed several qbs this year with much harder hits (including on 40 yr old Harris) and they got up.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I rewatched the hit on Zac, I really dont get how hes injured on that play. It wasn't a hard hit, and if that causes a inury or reinjury then Zac is too fragile to be on the field. Torontos chatfield has crushed several qbs this year with much harder hits (including on 40 yr old Harris) and they got up.

It was a hit by definition but pretty innocuous and something that happens many times a season. Don't want to speculate but it's obviously something they're pretty worried about if that's all it takes to knock him out.

Just put him on the 6 game and see what we can develop over the season. The sooner we start the development process the sooner we can start to win again.

[Tecno]

Somone in GDT said maybe Broxton hit Zach with his foot.  Doing a deep dive again on this, with the 2 replay angles we get, I noticed a couple of new things:

1. Broxton's foot maybe brushes Zach's helmet, probably not doing much;
2. Zach fell on his throwing arm, like when Nichols got Lemonated, but this time the D guy doesn't commit any body weight follow-through;
2. Backpedaling Broxton's left foot goes on top of Zach's throwing arm, and spends a long time there, with Broxton still pushing a DL away probably putting weight on it.  That's gotta hurt, if the cleats are deep.  Might irritate the muscle.

I can confirm Zach's head/helmet never hits the turf.  It may get secondary contact with HAM D's helmet, but it wasn't the first point of impact.

His head snap was partially rotational, though, and those are usually worse than single-motion ones.

Post-hit, once Broxton got off his arm, Zach only seemed concerned with his head.  Doing the "birdies flying around my head" routine with the hands going to the eyes.  I see no indication of being unconscious.  I think his eyes on the sidelines show that he was still woozy.  All of this is 100% normal for Zach, as it follows this pattern every single time.

My money is on the normal Zach concussion precaution.  Second to that would be his ol' neck crick.  Tangentially would be throwing arm damage, whether from the fall or Broxton's cleat.

[Tecno]

It was a hit by definition but pretty innocuous and something that happens many times a season. Don't want to speculate but it's obviously something they're pretty worried about if that's all it takes to knock him out.

It's literally the exact same thing we've seen 5-10 times over ~4 seasons.  You shouldn't be surprised.  Virtually any hit on Zach where he's thrown to the turf and he's pulled.  Does he absolutely need it?  Probably not.  But that's what Mafia & Zach have decided on.

[Tecno]

Torontos chatfield has crushed several qbs this year with much harder hits (including on 40 yr old Harris) and they got up.

The difference is no one cares about T.Harris (except his wife) and T.Harris & SSK only care about winning at the expense of everything else.  We & Zach could be the same way, but we're not.  You can argue about who's right.

T.Harris 100% got concussed last season and was walking around like Cornish in his last few games, and no one cared, and everyone defended it.  WFC simply doesn't work that way.

Does it cost us games?  Absolutely.

[Tecno]

Maybe swapping Broxton and Bryant?

Broxton finally looked much better on run block.  We were running very complex twists and crossovers, getting very creative, on all of those late-4th runs.  Broxton was getting to his place, and stuffing guys (sometimes 2), properly.  This may be the first time he's done this successfully.

It may simply be a matter of time of learning how to be a Yoshi rather than a Stan.  The fact he vastly improved provides hope.

[Tecno]

Before talking about replacing Zac why don't you talk about the O line. Especially Bryant at 40, Zac is getting hit from the blind side and the opposition defense are a lot faster now. Bryant was getting beat last year and MOS didn't replace him.

See my GDT post:
https://forums.bluebombers.com/index.php?msg=1694677

Zach's murder is not on Stan, but on Brady/Daniels.  So technically, that's not even on the OL as a unit, it's on the extended blocking team.

My grading of the players shows Stan having: 0.5 good plays (an assist on run block), and 0 bad plays.  That's pretty good for a LT, whose main job is to just stop DEs.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Somone in GDT said maybe Broxton hit Zach with his foot.  Doing a deep dive again on this, with the 2 replay angles we get, I noticed a couple of new things:

1. Broxton's foot maybe brushes Zach's helmet, probably not doing much;
2. Zach fell on his throwing arm, like when Nichols got Lemonated, but this time the D guy doesn't commit any body weight follow-through;
2. Backpedaling Broxton's left foot goes on top of Zach's throwing arm, and spends a long time there, with Broxton still pushing a DL away probably putting weight on it.  That's gotta hurt, if the cleats are deep.  Might irritate the muscle.

I can confirm Zach's head/helmet never hits the turf.  It may get secondary contact with HAM D's helmet, but it wasn't the first point of impact.

His head snap was partially rotational, though, and those are usually worse than single-motion ones.

Post-hit, once Broxton got off his arm, Zach only seemed concerned with his head.  Doing the "birdies flying around my head" routine with the hands going to the eyes.  I see no indication of being unconscious.  I think his eyes on the sidelines show that he was still woozy.  All of this is 100% normal for Zach, as it follows this pattern every single time.

My money is on the normal Zach concussion precaution.  Second to that would be his ol' neck crick.  Tangentially would be throwing arm damage, whether from the fall or Broxton's cleat.

You could hear and see Zach mouth "what happened?" after being picked up by his teammates, it's probably understood by everyone on the team that kind of hit is going to knock him out of the game. I think Zach accepts it as well knowing it's for his own protection.