CFL announces changes to the game - merged topics

[theaardvark]

Again... one more time ...Talk, speculate, and make stuff up all you want, we will see what happens.

Yes, once these changes happen and we see how the game is changed, THEN you can make a point, IF it changes negatively.

Until then, your points are moot, talk, speculating, and made up stuff as well.  Until we see the results of these changes, made by the people with actual skin in the game, who HAVE to sell seasons tickets, your thoughts are knee jerk supported by crowd mentality led by a negative viewpoint.

[theaardvark]

I'm in 107 and I mentioned it to people around me, and they voiced their opinion. Everyone I spoke to did not like the changes. SO THERE'S THAT !
I'm sure if you asked the people around you, you would get the same response. Although, I'm sure you would avoid it because you're pretty sure you know what the response will be.

I am in 108, and it was freshly out there, and not a person in earshot was discussing it, or asked me my opinion.  I heard zero comments on it in the tailgate area as I ate my BBQ, or in the lounge at halftime.  And yes, I did not bring it up, not because I was worried about getting a negative response, but because we were watching a great game, and t is irrelevant to the event I was attending for a very high price.

[wpg#1]

I am in 108, and it was freshly out there, and not a person in earshot was discussing it, or asked me my opinion.  I heard zero comments on it in the tailgate area as I ate my BBQ, or in the lounge at halftime.  And yes, I did not bring it up, not because I was worried about getting a negative response, but because we were watching a great game, and t is irrelevant to the event I was attending for a very high price.

The high price isn't important, it's the fact that I'm surrounded by long time season ticket holders. that was my point. I also did not start the conversation, folks behind me started talking about it. Then I asked.

[wpg#1]

And who said ANY ticket prices will increase over this change?  Are you out of your mind?  *I'm* making things up? 

You did
YOU SAID ..
"The majority of CFL seats are between the current goal lines, EZ seats are discounted and prime giveaway seats.  Look at where all the orange shirts were last game, EZ corner.

Most CFL revenue comes from seats that just got better.  More seats at higher prices."

[wpg#1]

Yes, once these changes happen and we see how the game is changed, THEN you can make a point, IF it changes negatively.

Until then, your points are moot, talk, speculating, and made up stuff as well.  Until we see the results of these changes, made by the people with actual skin in the game, who HAVE to sell seasons tickets, your thoughts are knee jerk supported by crowd mentality led by a negative viewpoint.

I'm not making stuff up. What have I made up ?
Answer that question please.
What have I made up?
I'm just saying I don't like the smaller field, smaller endzone, and moving the goal post. I see the response from many fans, and that is a fact.

[Jesse]

Let's chat in 2028 and we'll see who's right.

It's interesting to me that you bring up 2028. We won't know anything at that point. We will get the new CBA deal and we'll get a new TV deal. I imagine the deal will a new record high as the league just bent over backwards for TSN, and will get their pound of silver. I think it's also a safe assumption that with the new CBA, we'll get another wave of changes for 2028 and beyond.

At that point, empowered with a new TV deal, I'm sure the league will dislocate arm sockets patting themselves on the back. TSN boosters like Naylor and Lahji will be insufferable (I've already blocked them in anticipation). And we'll hear that all the moves were completely justified.

But that's where we'll actually see the affects of the changes. Do longstanding fans stop going in protest of new changes, is there an in flux of new viewers, either from Canadian or American markets, etc.

Because they can sell the deal on the promise of new fans, but in order to justify the new money, we need to see growth. Otherwise London bridge falls down without the promised growth and alienated (former) season ticket holders. 

[blue_or_die]

This forum is in no way a representative sample. It is a small echo chamber of passionate fans (from the CFLs currently most successful market) who predominately like things the way they are and feel passionate about it. Nothing wrong with that but if catering to that market worked across the country, the CFL would be significantly more successful that it is. It doesn't. There is no forum of "could be CFL fans" to offer a counterpoint or different perspectives, obviously. There is no forum of occasional or semi-frequent fans who are apathetic of the changes. Both of those segments exist in real life and they are FAR larger than this group.

If there were many more "keep things the same" fans across the country who were driving revenue and therefore profit, no one would be trying to find new segments to go after.

And also a sanity check: we are talking about moving goal posts and changing the way the clock is whistled in. There is a significantly higher number of CFL fans who actually have no idea how the clock works in that detail and couldn't tell you how it starts or how the NFL does it or why either version if different or better or the same.

I get you guys care and this is the place to chat about it. Not saying it's not. But the mass market doesn't care.  They will care if the camera angles are better. If production values improve. They'll care get a better view. They might not be able to articulate that now, but they will because that's how business works. And overtime, if the CFL shows up with better game day experiences and better production values, they'll win more often. For example, if the field wasn't so wide the TV angles would be significantly better and you'd get those amazing NFL close-ups. Would that be better in the long run? Maybe. These are the kind of choices you must consider if you're serious about growing over the long term.

I think you misinterpreted my point about the forum being a sort of representation of the CFL fandom. You are right that it is not. I only made that point because you said:

Regardless, it's happening. It's happening because the economics demand it and because there's like 20 of you upset about it still. 

With that out of the way, do you not have a response to anything else I said? You've been a vocal proponent for as long as I've been here of making significant changes to the game in the name of marketing the game to bigger audiences. You are about to get your wish in part. Do you have any insight to offer as to how these changes will directly lead to significant net growth, and is this based on anything more than a hunch or just a hope that any change is automatically positive?

If you're able to offer that and it's based in reality, perhaps the league that is forcing this on its fans can hand in their homework as well.

[theaardvark]

We have no idea if the new TV deal will be for more, or less.  With streaming and all the other options for eyeballs, we have no idea what viewship will be, or what budgets advertisers will have, or what the future of broadcast TV looks like, meaning how long any new contract will be for.

That said, the reason "Stew" was hired was because he has intricate knowledge of this landscape, and is best to pilot the league through that.  These rule changes were not why he was brought it, but there is no doubt in my mind that he has inside knowledge that leads him to believe the best broadcast contract for the CFL will be enhanced through these changes.  If he thought these changes would detract from viewership, they would not be made.

Yes, 2028 will be a new landscape for the CFL, we will have had a year of the new fields, and the other changes, and be in the second year of the new contract. 

The CBA is set to go through 2029, but can be re-opened in 2027.  So there might be a new CBA as well.

"Stew" has been mandated to guide the league through these interesting times, and he's not an uniformed person, so we have to accept he knows a lot more about all the nuances than we do, and the moves being made, big and small, are all towards making the league better, and more financially stable for the owners, 7 of which don't make money on this at the present time, but would no doubt like to.

[wpg#1]

Answer my question Aards

[blue_or_die]

That said, the reason "Stew" was hired was because he has intricate knowledge of this landscape, and is best to pilot the league through that.  These rule changes were not why he was brought it, but there is no doubt in my mind that he has inside knowledge that leads him to believe the best broadcast contract for the CFL will be enhanced through these changes.  If he thought these changes would detract from viewership, they would not be made.

Yes, 2028 will be a new landscape for the CFL, we will have had a year of the new fields, and the other changes, and be in the second year of the new contract. 

The CBA is set to go through 2029, but can be re-opened in 2027.  So there might be a new CBA as well.

"Stew" has been mandated to guide the league through these interesting times, and he's not an uniformed person, so we have to accept he knows a lot more about all the nuances than we do, and the moves being made, big and small, are all towards making the league better, and more financially stable for the owners, 7 of which don't make money on this at the present time, but would no doubt like to.

That is an extreme amount of faith in someone who showed up a few months ago, is about the remove numerous cherished aspects of the game, and hasn't shown any of the process that went into arriving at those conclusions nor consequences, good or bad.

But hey, if you're to put so much faith in this no0b based on his last gig:

well, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona for you...

I mentioned this last time we trusted a then-green commish with a strong business background as well as CFL background to enact a plan to grow the game:

An interesting comparison is Ambrosie's Global program. It was a weird concept. No one understood why or what benefit it would bring. No good explanation was given. We speculated that there "must be" reason to believe we could grow the game globally and at least nudge the gauge on audience size. Of course, none of that materialized and all we have to show for it is roster spots around the league now used for aussie rules kicker has-beens.

Without reasons, why would any of this be any different?

[theaardvark]

I'm not making stuff up. What have I made up ?
Answer that question please.
What have I made up?
I'm just saying I don't like the smaller field, smaller endzone, and moving the goal post. I see the response from many fans, and that is a fact.

You you say that the changes are going to make the ticket prices higher, of course that affects the response.  There has been no hint that ticket prices are rising because of the changes.  You made up that point, and every thing after that point in the discussion was tainted..


As to how taking 10 yards out of the centre of the field makes seats better, I explained it before, so here it goes again. 

My seat is now on the 45 instead of the 50, but still 5 yards from the centre of the field.

The goal line is 5 yards closer to me, and the endzone end line is 10 yards closer.  So, no matter where the action is, better seats. 

Many people buy tickets to Jets games based on them being closer to the home end of the rink, so they see more of the home team's offence. CFL, that doesn't happen.

If you have a seat on the 10 yard line now, it will be on the 5.  The far endzone is 10 yards closer, and the far EZ OB line is 15 yards closer.  Better seats, would have the same far endzone view as being on the 20 now.

There will be the ability for them to add seating with the extra 10 yards in each endzone. More seats.

And current seats on the sidelines, since they all get better, may be more likely to be sold, not here per se, but in stadia that do not sell out.

But no matter what anyone says, until the game/field changes prove themselves in use, your mind is made up, as is mine.  Lets shelve the "discussion" until the changes bear fruit.

[wpg#1]

You you say that the changes are going to make the ticket prices higher, of course that affects the response.  There has been no hint that ticket prices are rising because of the changes.  You made up that point, and every thing after that point in the discussion was tainted..


As to how taking 10 yards out of the centre of the field makes seats better, I explained it before, so here it goes again. 

You said higher ticket prices, because seats will be better. I never said any of that. You are speculating and making stuff up to fit the changes. I'm not. My argument is simple ... most people do not like the changes, and if the CFL make the changes and I'll make my changes.
I also said it's very sad. I never thought of not renewing, now I am.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I think you misinterpreted my point about the forum being a sort of representation of the CFL fandom. You are right that it is not. I only made that point because you said:

With that out of the way, do you not have a response to anything else I said? You've been a vocal proponent for as long as I've been here of making significant changes to the game in the name of marketing the game to bigger audiences. You are about to get your wish in part. Do you have any insight to offer as to how these changes will directly lead to significant net growth, and is this based on anything more than a hunch or just a hope that any change is automatically positive?

If you're able to offer that and it's based in reality, perhaps the league that is forcing this on its fans can hand in their homework as well.

I have said many times in what feels like 50 different ways why I think it is a good idea. The actual league, which has actual paid executives driving this forward clearly thinks it's a good approach. Some of you think you're better sports executives that the top echelons of MLSE. You're not. Or they would be paying you several hundred thousand dollars and not them. Further, this forum is not representative of the market, would rather vilify those actually trying the grow the game and are paying the bills (most of them at a significant loss). But who cares right?

I see no solutions from the cohort of people who don't advocate for change. They ignore the business reality. They ignore that recent change has already gone over just fine: can anyone tell me where the hashmarks are on a CFL field now? And where that idea came from? Right. And they ignore common sense.

Why can't I ask you if YOU have any insights how not making changes to attract new fans will help the seven teams losing money? You can't. Mainly because it's what they've been doing for years and we are where we are.

At least point, be mad for the sake of being mad. Rawr change bad. I get being passionate about a brand and not wanting it change because you like it just the way it is. Have an emotional response. Not going to blame you for that.

But don't pretend you want to be reasonable and talk sense and when you get those conversations from the league, some posters, the commissioner, you don't listen, don't try to understand and your big idea, essentially, is to do nothing.

[theaardvark]

You said higher ticket prices, because seats will be better. I never said any of that. You are speculating and making stuff up to fit the changes. I'm not. My argument is simple ... most people do not like the changes, and if the CFL make the changes and I'll make my changes.
I also said it's very sad. I never thought of not renewing, now I am.

*Most* people don't love or hate the changes.

There are some on either side that have an opinion, some have very strong opinions.  On both sides.

But most will wait and see if it changes things, and make up their minds after they actually see the results.

If you want to cancel your seasons because your seats got better, I'm not sure the logic.  I can't see how watching in person with the new layout is not going to be better.  And the game more exciting.  Other than missed FG returns, nothing else really changes, and taking FG's from mid field off the board makes me think there will be more exciting decisions when short yardage happens between the 50 and 35.

But its your money. 

To be honest, I was considering dropping my seasons before the changes.  Mainly because of my life situation and the vector the team seemed to be on (yes, CS17).  The recent turn around of the team, and these changes, are making me reconsider.  So there's that side of the coin.

[bomber beetle]

If I am asked if I 'like' the changes, I would say no. I love the game the way it is.

If I am asked if the changes are necessary, I would say yes.
I say yes, because I sense that there is a much bigger plan in place than what has been revealed so far.
I am more than willing to see where things go. It might just work.

What other choice is there? Maintaining the status quo would very likely bring about the death of the league.