Strevy's a Winning .750 QB

[TecnoGenius]

Last game 11 yards passing and IIRC 3 1st downs in the 1st half and losing TOP by 8 minutes is the opposite of what we want to see.

TOP 32:12 to 27:48 in OTT's favor.  That's pretty close to normal for any team, including ours.  Zach often loses TOP too.

Not saying your premise is faulty, but your example is.

[theaardvark]

Everyone is like "if Wilson can't throw better than Strev, why is he here? Cut him".  But this is shortsighted and missing the big picture.  I don't think Wilson is better than Strev as a starter right now.  Mafia thinks Strev will get us more wins than Wilson.  Period.  That's all they are considering.  They don't give a flying poop how many passing yards anyone gets.  Not one bit.

Wilson may be kept (now and in '26) because we know for a fact he's a good SY guy.  Strev might get injured again, who knows.  So Wilson may be needed.  Second, he knows the system and if both Zach/Strev are IR then Wilson is a better choice to start than some airlift guy like Dolegala (as proven in the GC).

Lastly, many QBs took 4-7 years to truly blossom.  Wilson may still be one of these guys.  Maybe he's the next VAJ.  If nothing better comes along, keep chipping away.  You never know.

So, the question is, how do you develop Wiulson if you won't give him ANY snaps, and leave him on the bench when Strevy is stuggling beyond reason?

THAT is our point.  If he isn't enough of a prospect to replace a guy that threw 3 picks (one dropped) and lost us the last game, then why?

If, after a 2-7 for 35 yards (not counting that handoff to Mitchell ever) with an early pick does not get Wilson promoted to #2 or starter if Collaros is still on the AR, then what is he doing here is the question.

[Blue In BC]

TOP 32:12 to 27:48 in OTT's favor.  That's pretty close to normal for any team, including ours.  Zach often loses TOP too.

Not saying your premise is faulty, but your example is.

I mentioned 1st half TOP in the last game. Yeah it's a catch 22. An offence could score often and quickly and lose TOP as a result.

I'm just suggesting it's an issue when the team goes 2 and out most of the time.

[TecnoGenius]

So, the question is, how do you develop Wiulson if you won't give him ANY snaps, and leave him on the bench when Strevy is stuggling beyond reason?

THAT is our point.  If he isn't enough of a prospect to replace a guy that threw 3 picks (one dropped) and lost us the last game, then why?

And it's a good point.  But the answer is "because that's what every single other CFL team does".

Look at other teams that have cycled through the depth of QBs, like OTT, BC, MTL (especially MTL).

They let their (often completely unproven) guys go out there until they lost.  Usually multiple losses.  2, 3, whatever.  THEN they made the switch.  Or they lost one in SUCH a bad way, and they had an equally green guy on the PR they threw them in because why not?

Strev isn't Chase.  Strev has been in the CFL for a long time and WON many many games.  And won MANY games this season.

No other team would pull that guy and put in Wilson unless they are trying to protect them from injury (no risk of that with Strev), except maybe if they are losing by 3-5 majors and it's the 4th and it's clear the starter cannot recover.

You can argue that occurred in the HAM game.  But like MOS said, Strev started making headway in the 4th.  Ya, maybe garbage time D.  But MOS thought the best chance to win was with Strev.

You can argue varying degrees of willingness to pull QBs.  Many HCs have more of a hair trigger.  Sometimes to a surprising extent that raises eyebrows.  "So the HC is just giving up on the game with 9 mins left?"

But MOS really is not doing anything out of the ordinary, historically.  And, historically, QBs in Wilson's shoes DID develop and become future legit starters.  Somehow it all worked out, even without the benching of "the Strevs" of the past.

[theaardvark]

And it's a good point.  But the answer is "because that's what every single other CFL team does".

Look at other teams that have cycled through the depth of QBs, like OTT, BC, MTL (especially MTL).

They let their (often completely unproven) guys go out there until they lost.  Usually multiple losses.  2, 3, whatever.  THEN they made the switch.  Or they lost one in SUCH a bad way, and they had an equally green guy on the PR they threw them in because why not?

Strev isn't Chase.  Strev has been in the CFL for a long time and WON many many games.  And won MANY games this season.

No other team would pull that guy and put in Wilson unless they are trying to protect them from injury (no risk of that with Strev), except maybe if they are losing by 3-5 majors and it's the 4th and it's clear the starter cannot recover.

You can argue that occurred in the HAM game.  But like MOS said, Strev started making headway in the 4th.  Ya, maybe garbage time D.  But MOS thought the best chance to win was with Strev.

You can argue varying degrees of willingness to pull QBs.  Many HCs have more of a hair trigger.  Sometimes to a surprising extent that raises eyebrows.  "So the HC is just giving up on the game with 9 mins left?"

But MOS really is not doing anything out of the ordinary, historically.  And, historically, QBs in Wilson's shoes DID develop and become future legit starters.  Somehow it all worked out, even without the benching of "the Strevs" of the past.

If you thinks CS17 has "won many games", we're watching totally different games.

Games where CS17 is the QB of record have been won, when they've been won, it is in spite of his efforts, not because of them.  Played just not bad enough to lose.  If THAT is the bar you have to reach to stay as the starter, you are not winning a playoff game.

Dru Brown passed for over 400yds in their loss, CS17 for 35.  Which would you rather have behind centre the next game?  The loser or the winner?

Finding out if Wilson can "not lose" us the next game gives us a completely different picture going into the playoffs.  Letting CS17 "not lose" us the next game changes nothing.

[TecnoGenius]

If you thinks CS17 has "won many games", we're watching totally different games.

Uh, that again.  Ok, "Strevy was the QB when we won games".  Doesn't change my argument one bit.

Games where CS17 is the QB of record have been won, when they've been won, it is in spite of his efforts, not because of them.  Played just not bad enough to lose.

Prove it.

If Strev was SO bad and SO hopeless and Wilson was SO promising, don't you think the players would revolt?  On the sidelines, in pressers, etc.  It's strange, but every take I see from the players indicates they Got Strev's Back.

Finding out if Wilson can "not lose" us the next game gives us a completely different picture going into the playoffs.  Letting CS17 "not lose" us the next game changes nothing.

And we'd have had that luxury if we were high enough in the standings to get a "garbage season" game or 2.  Maybe we still will: it might transpire we have no way to improve (or lose a position) in the final game.

I agree that Wilson starting one would be a nice and useful thing.  But if he stinks worse and that costs us a game?  How does that help our home GC goal?  There's always next PS for him to try again...

And if we're rolling with Strev OR Wilson into the playoffs?, we're all wincing and praying for miracles... It's Zach or bust, baby

[blue_gold_84]

If Strev was SO bad and SO hopeless and Wilson was SO promising, don't you think the players would revolt?  On the sidelines, in pressers, etc.  It's strange, but every take I see from the players indicates they Got Strev's Back.

This argument is flawed. I mean, that's just what good teammates do: support one another, especially when times are tough. A functional locker room doesn't throw anyone under the bus.

And all indications are Streveler is a good teammate. He's shown he can be a serviceable pivot, but I don't think anyone could rationally claim the team's record with him as the starter is due to his talent/skill being a driving factor.

[theaardvark]

Uh, that again.  Ok, "Strevy was the QB when we won games".  Doesn't change my argument one bit.

Prove it.

If Strev was SO bad and SO hopeless and Wilson was SO promising, don't you think the players would revolt?  On the sidelines, in pressers, etc.  It's strange, but every take I see from the players indicates they Got Strev's Back.

And we'd have had that luxury if we were high enough in the standings to get a "garbage season" game or 2.  Maybe we still will: it might transpire we have no way to improve (or lose a position) in the final game.

I agree that Wilson starting one would be a nice and useful thing.  But if he stinks worse and that costs us a game?  How does that help our home GC goal?  There's always next PS for him to try again...

And if we're rolling with Strev OR Wilson into the playoffs?, we're all wincing and praying for miracles... It's Zach or bust, baby

Without seeing Wilson in action, we have NO IDEA if that is the case.

We do KNOW that CS17 is not going to get us anywhere in the playoffs, barring a complete miracle.  We beat the worst team in the league with CS17 bailing on more throws than he attempted, and completing 2 of 7, including one to the other team.

It would be very, very hard for Wilson to crap the bed worse than CS17's last game.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Uh, that again.  Ok, "Strevy was the QB when we won games".  Doesn't change my argument one bit.

Prove it.

If Strev was SO bad and SO hopeless and Wilson was SO promising, don't you think the players would revolt?  On the sidelines, in pressers, etc.  It's strange, but every take I see from the players indicates they Got Strev's Back.

And we'd have had that luxury if we were high enough in the standings to get a "garbage season" game or 2.  Maybe we still will: it might transpire we have no way to improve (or lose a position) in the final game.

I agree that Wilson starting one would be a nice and useful thing.  But if he stinks worse and that costs us a game?  How does that help our home GC goal?  There's always next PS for him to try again...

And if we're rolling with Strev OR Wilson into the playoffs?, we're all wincing and praying for miracles... It's Zach or bust, baby

It didn't make any difference that Wilson out played Strev in the pre-season games, the pecking order was already established. 

I agree the expected standard for a backup QB is winning .500 of any games played in.  The extra worry this season is Zach is in an extremely fragile state and may be unavailable for more games down the back stretch, putting the Bombers at risk of missing the playoffs.  They beat the worst team in the league using grit and trickery but that's unlikely to work against any other team with a half decent QB.

Secondary worry is going into next season with the same QB room, "what is da plan boss, what is da plan?"

[TecnoGenius]

The extra worry this season is Zach is in an extremely fragile state and may be unavailable for more games down the back stretch

Is he though?  Before his first hit & missed game this season, was he "more fragile" than last year?

I think Zach is always "this fragile" and this year is unique in that he's getting creamed way more often and way harder than he usually does.  Because the OL has been oft-changing and is, frankly, bad.  Even if one thinks the OL is ok, they must admit it's the worst OL he's had since Zach arrived in '19.

If I'm Zach, or a fan, I'm quietly cursing Mafia for really dropping the ball on OL composition/capability.  They let us all down.  And even if they tweak the line-up and finally "gel", the damage has partially already been done.

You can't unring a (Zach's head) bell.  Now I understand why Nichols used to take the hoggies out for dinner after clean games to Famous Daves.  He knew they were his lifeline, and the one time they failed bigly his career was Lemonated over.

[TecnoGenius]

This argument is flawed. I mean, that's just what good teammates do: support one another, especially when times are tough. A functional locker room doesn't throw anyone under the bus.

True, but the sideline looks and pressers were starting to show some fractures vis a vis Hogan.  If they hated Strev for pass-sucking, surely little gripes would slip out like they did for Hogan.

Stuff like "it's frustrating when there's no passes coming my way", or "I'm open but they didn't see me".  Lots of things guys could say with bus-throwing.

[TecnoGenius]

It would be very, very hard for Wilson to crap the bed worse than CS17's last game.

Again, people keep saying this, but it doesn't make it true.  Wilson could come out and throw half of all balls into the turf and the other half directly into opponent hands.  We've seen it before.  Not saying it's probable, but it certainly is possible.  And we're not talking 1% possible: first-start QBs have probably a 10-20% complete-utter-suckage rate.

PJ Walker stunk the joint out in his first start with the league's best team (IMHO) behind him at the time on Jul 31 -- losing to OTT(!!) 11-31.  "Sucky" Strev beat the same team 26-18.  Even backing out the Vaval TD, Strev's O still wins with 19 points on the board.

Is Wilson behind our OL better than PJ Walker behind CGY's OL?  Would you bet money on it?

[blue_gold_84]

True, but the sideline looks and pressers were starting to show some fractures vis a vis Hogan.  If they hated Strev for pass-sucking, surely little gripes would slip out like they did for Hogan.

Stuff like "it's frustrating when there's no passes coming my way", or "I'm open but they didn't see me".  Lots of things guys could say with bus-throwing.

That's different, IMO. Streveler has earned the respect of his teammates over the years. I can't say the same for Hogan at this point in time.

I also can't help but wonder if Hogan's basically clueless when it comes to his QBs.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

That's different, IMO. Streveler has earned the respect of his teammates over the years. I can't say the same for Hogan at this point in time.

I also can't help but wonder if Hogan's basically clueless when it comes to his QBs.

Pretty sure Zach is a strongly opinionated person, he's going to have as much input in Hogan's playbook as he wants, as it's his team.  Hogan or Jackson are not going to  disrespect his input by ignoring it, they spend dozens of hours in small rooms every week going over the details of the game plan, there should be no surprises.

[blue_gold_84]

Pretty sure Zach is a strongly opinionated person, he's going to have as much input in Hogan's playbook as he wants, as it's his team.  Hogan or Jackson are not going to  disrespect his input by ignoring it, they spend dozens of hours in small rooms every week going over the details of the game plan, there should be no surprises.

And yet, Collaros has also struggled mightily in this so-called offense. Yes, there are other factors to consider like injuries, but it's noteworthy how both the starting QB and the backup QB have not fared well this season under the supposed tutelage of a neophyte OC.

I wonder how much input he actually does get.