Official Game Day Thread - Winnipeg at Calgary, August 9, 2025

[Jesse]

No doubt he's CFL royalty but I think you're giving him way too much credit. It's not like the Riders were some lousy team a year ago, anyway. Trevor Harris got hurt - the same thing could happen this season.

Harris chose to leave this organization more than three years ago. The Bombers are 34-15 during the regular season since then.

The Riders losing streak is incoming.

[RebusRankin]

If you had Andy Reid calling plays in the second half of the Calgary game how much would it have helped?
If you had the quarterbacks flip teams and Vernon Adams came out in blue how much would it have helped?

Collaros had 45 passing yards in the second half and at some point, he's gotta own that and we need to come to the realization what he used to do to be successful is no longer possible and he's not adapting well or proving effective at any other style of game. We can try to help him by increasing protection and at the cost of downfield receiving options but otherwise it doesn't matter how good a leader he is or how smart he is if he can't make the plays anymore. 

Given his track record, Any Reid would likely have done well. Give me a QB whose playing well and it likely goes very well.

[blue_gold_84]

The Riders losing streak is incoming.

[Blueforlife]

What about hiring an experience OC mortgages the future?

It not just about Hogan is our approach to how we manage our players and coaches.  We don't make big splashes on FA and over pay.  We often develop our guys and reward our vets.  Some teams go all in and mortgage their future by overspending, giving up picks and by focusing on the short term.  In Hogan's case we have a OC prospect likely a good price that we can develop a system around long term.  That's vision.  Short term lumps will occur just like with MOS and Hall.  If we replaced Hogan now it would be knee jerk, cost money and set us back imo.  We stay the course and hopefully he improves, if not have that discussion in the offseason as needed.

How does firing Hogan now help us?

For the record, MOS said yesterday that he has never an will never fire a coach midseason.

For better or for worse, Hogan is the guy.

I'm with MOS on this one, like a lot of things this organization does.

I think where Blueforlife is right is that change for the sake of change is bad. We've got 1 win in our last 4 games but we need to be careful to identify the real issues and then change those. Too often in football and life, when things aren't going well, people have a tendency to make a hard situation worse by making the wrong decisions.

A few things I would do before placing too much blame on Hogan:

1. Try: Bryant - Vanterpool - Kolakowski - Neufeld - Randolph +1

2. Prioritize time in pocket in passing downs with Collaros at the controls. Let's go with seven OL and play more six man protect. Keep a back in the backfield more often. Does it look different if Collaros has ~1 to 2 more seconds per play? Can our receivers win more often also under that scenario?

If yes, do it more. Collaros can't keep plays alive on his own like he used to, but he might still be as effective if we get him the time he used to have with a different approach to protection. This obviously becomes a challenge if defenses just +1 rush us, which, ya, they will. We'd have to try to know.

If no, let's go back to the 6 OL deployment and see what a platoon of Streveler and Wilson looks like with a plan to get Wilson in for 2/3 of the snaps.

No easy answers here as much as we want to say Hogan bad. It's not going to fix it.

The 1st part of your quote is exactly my thinking.  We go on a skid and people panic and look for a quick blame game or fall guy.  The 2nd part of your quote I agree with, lots to fix, OL,QB,OC etc.  We are average b/c most of our game is average but ST is ace LOL.  Some wanted Hogan gone before he started.  Can't please them all.

I think part of the problem lies in Zach's stubbornness, he wants to play BLM's long game but doesn't have the arm talent, he's not going to let a rookie OC make him play like Trevor Harris. Logan is going to do whatever Zach wants him to do.

I don't agree with much this.  Zach does not have BLM arm but it's still pretty darn good.  He need time to throw and Schoen back.  Zach will never be a Harris, different types of QBs.  Zach needs to throw the ball away a bit more and make quicker decisions.  If it's not there that's ok.  He used to make zero throws and run around like chicken to extend plays, that part is over for him.  Zach will improve has his protection improves, our run game is stronger and our play calling figures it out a bit.

Not sure who's disagreeing with you on this plainly obvious point. He's been mediocre at best for the most part going back to early on last season; it's been a while since he was worth his salary.

Streveler having marginally more success in this so-called offense is hardly worth pointing out. When both QBs have struggled to find consistent success over eight games, it sure seems like what's wrong goes well beyond who's behind centre.

There's plenty of blame to go around with the offense.  Is anyone earning their keep? Not really.

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Unless you're suggesting the Bombers missed out by not hiring Harris as a coach...?

I believe that Zach has earned his salary up to this season.  He is our leader and has brought us nothing but wins, cups and yes a few blunders at the big show.  This year isn't done yet and he could still earn his keep.  The team went on an epic run last year, didn't see that coming at the time.  I don't think we will go on a run this year but Zach if healthy, has protection and his weapons is still a top dollar guy imo.  Not that many other QBs I would take in the big show.  He sun is setting but he can still shine imo.  When we signed Zach other teams would have considering him a similar price imo.  Star vet QBS are expensive even at the end.

Can I be more clear?

Collaros playing nowhere near $600,000 football. He physically cannot dominate games anymore and he has shown no sign of adapting to the only game his body can probably play, which is a three step drop timing based offense. Trevor Harris would make our current pass pro look three times better and most of you know it.

This isn't rocket science.

We can try and help him by improving protection because he needs more time but otherwise we might as well go with Wilson and hope he can learn quickly. If you look at Collaros for this year and most of last year you'll find the decline curve is well underway.

You can all try and pick at the play call, the offensive line play and receivers (they could all be better) but the biggest problem is currently the cost and output of the guy throwing the football.

Streveler has had more success in this offense so I'm not really sure how it could be any more obvious.

I believe you are stretching here and understating how important a good OL is.  Most QBs crumble with a bad OL since that story time and time again.  Game is won in the trenches.  Yes quick throw QBs don't need the time and don't get smacked around a lot but every QB needs time and protection.  Sets up the run game the deep ball.  Most teams need the deep ball and time to throw to be effective.  Zach will come around with better protection imo and Schoen back.  Success isn't linear this year will be a bumpy road.  I don't believe Strev has had more success this year than Zach.  That said Strev has over achieved and times and Zach hasn't been playing to his standard.  Not worried about our QBs, my worries are:
1. Gel that OL and figure out the right combo
2. Fix or buy out way out the CB and safety problem
3. What are we going to do at receiver
4. Get more consistent on the DL

I give Zach a C- and Strev a B-, I give the OL a D, play calling C-, receivers D+, RB B-

he was stretching hard there imo and I really like the gif, well played, what if Joe Montana had 3 kids and we had them all at QB and Dave Ritchie as DC lol

The players would play we know that

[Sir Blue and Gold]

But the offensive line isn't bad. They're a middle of the road unit. Last year when Collaros struggled they were 3 or 4th ranked most weeks. This year they're about the same with the exception of a clunker in the first game in Calgary where they got smacked.

Would it be better if they were the number one unit? Yes. Is that what Collaros needs to be successful? If it is, he's not worth anywhere near what we're paying him. He always has been a QB who holds the ball until he finds what he's looking for. Zach dominated by extending plays and moving aeoujd which is really hard on offensive lines, generally speaking. Compare that to Trevor Harris style who's largely three steps back and the ball is out.

Collaros isn't an easy pass blocking QB, he can't extend plays like he used to, and hasn't been very effective doing anything else.

The result is he's 2-4 on the season and struggling. I don't think there's many good options. I certainly can't see them beyond loading up on max protect and hoping the extra time mimics his scrambling of old.

He'll be 37 in two weeks. This really shouldn't be surprising. He's right on schedule, if you're honest.

[gordo]

If you had Andy Reid calling plays in the second half of the Calgary game how much would it have helped?

Bingo.

This has nothing to do with Hogan or any other coaches. We simply do not have the horses anymore. 

Or the db's or the receivers or the o-line or the qb (anymore).

But good gravy we can kick field goals like nobodies bidness!

That and $6 beer keeps me going back.

[TecnoGenius]

But the offensive line isn't bad. They're a middle of the road unit.

Our desired lineup Stan-Vant-Ko-Neuf-Loft isn't bad (or Wall in for Vant).  EVERY OTHER LINE WE TRY IS BAD.  And that's basically every loss this season.

The joke of an OL we fielded last game was 90% of what lost the game.

Zach can be great with a great OL.  Like league-best OL.  Like Stan-Desjar-Couture-Neuf-Yoshi good.  We have that line and Zach puts up 375 a game and we look like heroes.

We neglected and underspent on OL, have been unable to draft well because we're always in cups, and have had bad luck with injuries.

On O it all starts with OL.  So many other teams have mediocre REC corps and yet with time in the pocket the QB can drive the field.

You know what we did?  We looked at all units and half-butted all of them.  We didn't say "we need a top OL", or "we need a top DB corps".  We went for extreme balance and the result is all units are mediocre if healthy, and horrifically bad if injured.

How much better would we be if we said in FA "our D won't be great, let's prioritize OL and REC so we can just match teams on points".  We prioritized nothing, so now we have no path to winning games.  Contrast to the top teams who clearly prioritized certain units and strengths, and win on the back of those units.

It's like we don't know who we are or what we're supposed to be good at... remember back when we were known as the "run stop team", or the "pound it down your throat" team?  Or the years we were the "ball hawk" team.  That was an identity.  We have no identity right now, other than "across the board suckage".

[TecnoGenius]

Trevor Harris would make our current pass pro look three times better and most of you know it.

He would make our REC look better.  He 100% would not make our pass pro look better.  Even with all the injuries, SSK's OL is 10X what our hodgepodge undesired lineup is.  Trevor has more than enough time to take the mid/deep shots every 4-7 attempts.  He is almost never touched.

Simply watch the disaster on our last drive vs CGY.  Trevor would be creamed in that scenario.

[TecnoGenius]

We can try to help him by increasing protection and at the cost of downfield receiving options but otherwise it doesn't matter how good a leader he is or how smart he is if he can't make the plays anymore.

There are 2 ways to increase protection: haul in more jumbo like you suggest, OR bring in better horses(hoggies).  I say bring in better hoggies.  At minimum we need a legit RT if Lofton is gone >30% of the remaining games.

Also, we do more jumbo/TE stuff and teams are still getting right through it like swiss cheese.  It's a joke.  That's why we're not running jumbo as much on pass plays.  The horses are bad, the schemes are bad, the brain power to resist stunts is bad (but improving).  Most teams will just keep +1'ing pass rushers every +1 jumbo you add, and the same horses will get turnstiled.

[TecnoGenius]

We don't know if Hamilton knew about the extra $400K before anyone else. We don't know they will exceed the 2025 SMS by any amount.

Yes, we don't know that, but we for sure know they spent the extra $400k.  They came out and said it outright.  It's not speculation.

As soon as the $400k was announced, we did... nothing.  In fact, we came out and plainly said "we're not spending the $400k, we like being hamstrung vs our competitors yay!".

[TecnoGenius]

Yes I say it's an obscene idea. The Grey Cup is some team's home turf every season. Can you name a couple that have done what you have suggested and succeeded?

Most teams "try a little harder" in GC years, at least the ones that are expected to be competitive do.  Remember, you can overage by $100k without penalty, and many teams do.

Yes it's a soft cap but it's about the spirit of the cap and trying to have parity.

So either you believe in parity or you don't.

Works great when everyone else is following the spirit.  Works like crap when a lot of teams are "cheating" every which way to Sunday.  Blame BC for starting it.  Genie is out of the bottle.

All I know is the teams that spent the completely legal and to-the-spirit $400k bonus seem to be kicking butt in the standings right now...  We're like "nah, we don't need no steeenkin $400k!".  Now do MMM... and... and...

[TecnoGenius]

If that's actually the case, then I'm all the more concerned.

"Offense by committee" isn't working.

He was offered a HC job with the Lions. He didn't jump ship.

Yes, Hogan did say he was going to be far more open to sub-coach and player input in a more consensus / bottom-up OC approach.  I can't remember the exact words, but that's the gist.

To me it's more like "I'm new here and I want input from the stakeholders who think they can add value".  It's not a horrible approach, in theory.

As for Buck, he knew what he was doing all '24 because he moved from always-in-booth to always-on-field.  On-field OCs are somewhat rare.  He was prepping to be the HC down on the sideline, like all HCs.

As for "jumping ship" or not, keep in mind Buck could have been HC somewhere in '23 and '24.  Guaranteed.  He turned them all down to stay here.

I think the pay lure, inability to get raises in WFC, and maybe the suckage of the last few cups, finally convinced him to make the move.

I'm not sure he did it with any foreknowledge of a WFC "downtrend".  If he did, he didn't pick the best team to go HC for, because BC is like the only other team on a clear downtrend this season.  If he keeps losing he could get the Claybrooks treatment and be one'n'done as a HC.

[Blueforlife]

But the offensive line isn't bad. They're a middle of the road unit. Last year when Collaros struggled they were 3 or 4th ranked most weeks. This year they're about the same with the exception of a clunker in the first game in Calgary where they got smacked.

Would it be better if they were the number one unit? Yes. Is that what Collaros needs to be successful? If it is, he's not worth anywhere near what we're paying him. He always has been a QB who holds the ball until he finds what he's looking for. Zach dominated by extending plays and moving aeoujd which is really hard on offensive lines, generally speaking. Compare that to Trevor Harris style who's largely three steps back and the ball is out.

Collaros isn't an easy pass blocking QB, he can't extend plays like he used to, and hasn't been very effective doing anything else.

The result is he's 2-4 on the season and struggling. I don't think there's many good options. I certainly can't see them beyond loading up on max protect and hoping the extra time mimics his scrambling of old.

He'll be 37 in two weeks. This really shouldn't be surprising. He's right on schedule, if you're honest.

OL started ok, went bad with the changes.  Our OL will gel and improve as the season moves on, we get healthy and find the right mix.  Yes Zach needs an good OL to setup the deep ball and run.  I believe you are overstating the negative on Zach.  He had struggled a bit but so had many aspects of this club.  Yes he is older but don't write him off yet.  I believe you said the same thing with Harris late in his career and all he did was kill it.

You are understanding the importance of a good OL.  If we cure that ill many things will get better.  That and our CB's and safety.  We have a few big things to sore up but I think we will get there.  Dru will test our back end tomorrow and their DL will challenge our OL.  Ding ding, time for Brady bully ball.  Game is won in the trenches.

The pillars of strength for this team have been OL, QB.  We still have a chance to continue that legacy hopefully propped up with improvement on D.

[Blue In BC]

Most teams "try a little harder" in GC years, at least the ones that are expected to be competitive do.  Remember, you can overage by $100k without penalty, and many teams do.

Works great when everyone else is following the spirit.  Works like crap when a lot of teams are "cheating" every which way to Sunday.  Blame BC for starting it.  Genie is out of the bottle.

All I know is the teams that spent the completely legal and to-the-spirit $400k bonus seem to be kicking butt in the standings right now...  We're like "nah, we don't need no steeenkin $400k!".  Now do MMM... and... and...

No team has done what you suggest. Teams going over the SMS by mostly minimal amounts. The Lions were an exception due to two starting Canadians coming back from the NFL.

It's also absurd to suggest that teams don't try and get to the Grey Cup every year. Having it in their back yard shouldn't impact the desire to win regardless of where the game is played. It's all about having good players available and getting the most of every dollar spent. Then it's being healthy and hot going into the playoffs.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Once again, unless there was some conspiracy about the timing and use of the increase to the SMS, then I disagree. If the Bombers knew and choose to not spend more money on retaining a few players or adding in free agency then yes then management should be called out.

We don't have proof that any team knew in time to take advantage of this extra amount.,

During free agency we thought the Elks were excessively spending and that may or may not be true. Regardless, look where they are at the moment with nor real path to success this season.

Spending money does not guarantee a good season.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

OL started ok, went bad with the changes.  Our OL will gel and improve as the season moves on, we get healthy and find the right mix.  Yes Zach needs an good OL to setup the deep ball and run.  I believe you are overstating the negative on Zach.  He had struggled a bit but so had many aspects of this club.  Yes he is older but don't write him off yet.  I believe you said the same thing with Harris late in his career and all he did was kill it.

You are understanding the importance of a good OL.  If we cure that ill many things will get better.  That and our CB's and safety.  We have a few big things to sore up but I think we will get there.  Dru will test our back end tomorrow and their DL will challenge our OL.  Ding ding, time for Brady bully ball.  Game is won in the trenches.

The pillars of strength for this team have been OL, QB.  We still have a chance to continue that legacy hopefully propped up with improvement on D.

Remove Zach's name and just look at the output from the last season and 8 games and his birthday. There's your answer. It's that simple.

For a lot of good quarterbacks, it takes awhile for people to see the results and attribute it to the player. You're used to seeing them dominate and it's weird when they don't. Call it the Russell Wilson effect if you want, because he's a recent example. He was great until he wasn't. Same with 37-year-old (in two weeks) Collaros.

You'll all come around a year and a half worth of sample isn't wrong.