Official Game Day Thread - Winnipeg at Toronto., July 26, 2025

[Blueforlife]

We never got value. We outbid other teams for all of those guys on the open market. We made Jefferson the highest paid defender in the league until we broke our own record to make Bighill the highest paid defender in the CFL. That's how we got Harris and Bryant here too.

Disagree we have got outstanding value from most of our top guns over the last number of years imo.

[Pete]

We never got value. We outbid other teams for all of those guys on the open market. We made Jefferson the highest paid defender in the league until we broke our own record to make Bighill the highest paid defender in the CFL. That's how we got Harris and Bryant here too.

I actually think this is what we have missed, rather than targeting one or two players that can make us better we overpay for players out of loyalty and settle for midtier replacements. We dont need to be outbid we chose to

[TecnoGenius]

Watch Wallace play, he isn't the problem, if I was Walters I would dedicate the rest of my season to signing him to a 3 year extention.  Don't care as much what happens to the rest of the O-line, Wallace is the future.

I like your enthusiasm.  I'll take another look at Wallace.  All I know is there's been a lot of damage coming through the interior and left interior of the OL when Wallace is there.  And when Vant was there it was very solid.

Maybe the problem is more Vant-Wallace breaking down.  Have we seen any of Stan-Wallace?  I guess it's possible the suckage of Vant at LT is leaking onto Wallace.

I'll give your thesis serious consideration.

[TecnoGenius]

That seems silly. Liam Dobson was the top ranked guard (78.8 & 74.2) in the entire league week 8 and week 5, and was third overall week 6 (65.7). He's having a good year. He's playing better consistently better than our guards.

Ya, and PFF said Dobson was top ranked many times in '24.  At the time I said "I don't see it".  But I deferred to PFF and the Dobson-lovers here (about 50% of us).

I still don't really see it.  I think both Ran and Vant in LG were easily as good as Dobson, at least at pass-pro.  Wallace: my jury is still out.

Sometimes I wonder if PFF isn't full of poop.  They may be getting too deep in the weeds and missing the forest for the trees.  They may also ignore synergy with the guys next to them and the whole unit.  Or they're just focusing too much on the wrong metric.

If I was a GM, I wouldn't base my OL hiring and salary purely on the numbers PFF spits out.

One thing's for sure.  Dobson was/is half the RG Desjar was/is, at least when in blue & gold.  (Yes this also goes back to the feeling that every year we seem to downgrade a little, since 2021...)

[TecnoGenius]

I actually think this is what we have missed, rather than targeting one or two players that can make us better we overpay for players out of loyalty and settle for midtier replacements. We dont need to be outbid we chose to

Unless it's clearly the player's last 1-2 seasons, in general our top-paid guys will easily find a home for similar money elsewhere.  KW isn't just overpaying them for fun.

If we cut Willie J today he would get snapped up in 2 days and get paid roughly the same.

If some good team had a star QB season-ender (say MTL) and we cut Zach, he would get snapped up immediately for basically the same salary.  Remember, including MMM, Zach isn't even a top-3 paid QB right now I don't think.  I know for sure Kelly / Rourke are making more, and I thought 1 other guy.

Same for Neuf, Big Stan, the list goes on.

It's only when a star player is clearly falling off the performance cliff and is cut by their long-standing team that they ever contemplate taking a big cut.  I don't think most (or any?) of our "top guys" are at that stage as of mid-season 2025.

[Jesse]

Disagree we have got outstanding value from most of our top guns over the last number of years imo.

Yeah. I feel like you ignored most of my post in order to disagree with it. Not saying the players didn't perform, I am saying they didn't come here at a discount. We made them the highest paid at their positions in order to come here.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Unless it's clearly the player's last 1-2 seasons, in general our top-paid guys will easily find a home for similar money elsewhere.  KW isn't just overpaying them for fun.

If we cut Willie J today he would get snapped up in 2 days and get paid roughly the same.

If some good team had a star QB season-ender (say MTL) and we cut Zach, he would get snapped up immediately for basically the same salary.  Remember, including MMM, Zach isn't even a top-3 paid QB right now I don't think.  I know for sure Kelly / Rourke are making more, and I thought 1 other guy.

Same for Neuf, Big Stan, the list goes on.

It's only when a star player is clearly falling off the performance cliff and is cut by their long-standing team that they ever contemplate taking a big cut.  I don't think most (or any?) of our "top guys" are at that stage as of mid-season 2025.

If Willie left, a team like the Lions or Als would sign him and let him play the game he is best suited for, they wouldn't try to squeeze him into a role he can play but doesn't fit well.  He's a pure pass rusher like Betts, let somebody else worry about contain, he's good at chasing QB's and knocking down passes.

[Jesse]

If Willie left, a team like the Lions or Als would sign him and let him play the game he is best suited for, they wouldn't try to squeeze him into a role he can play but doesn't fit well.  He's a pure pass rusher like Betts, let somebody else worry about contain, he's good at chasing QB's and knocking down passes.

We definitely need him running straight forward much more.

[Blueforlife]

Yeah. I feel like you ignored most of my post in order to disagree with it. Not saying the players didn't perform, I am saying they didn't come here at a discount. We made them the highest paid at their positions in order to come here.

I get it.  I believe the tone of your posted indicated as lack of value which I believe we got, even through we paid top dollar.  Wasn't just trying to disagree, was presenting my opinion (sorry if you took it that way), I do appreciate the effort to further explain you position which I better understand now and we are not as far apart in our opinion than I originally thought.  Nice to made the effort to bridge the gap my friend. 

[dd]

Unless it's clearly the player's last 1-2 seasons, in general our top-paid guys will easily find a home for similar money elsewhere.  KW isn't just overpaying them for fun.

If we cut Willie J today he would get snapped up in 2 days and get paid roughly the same.

If some good team had a star QB season-ender (say MTL) and we cut Zach, he would get snapped up immediately for basically the same salary.  Remember, including MMM, Zach isn't even a top-3 paid QB right now I don't think.  I know for sure Kelly / Rourke are making more, and I thought 1 other guy.

Same for Neuf, Big Stan, the list goes on.

It's only when a star player is clearly falling off the performance cliff and is cut by their long-standing team that they ever contemplate taking a big cut.  I don't think most (or any?) of our "top guys" are at that stage as of mid-season 2025.

Zack may not be top 3 paid Qb, problem is he's ranked 8th out of 9 starting Qb's performance wise. If he was being paid 8th highest salary, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but being paid $600k for what we've seen, c'mon man, get serious

That said, if we thought last week was bad, look out for this upcoming game, its going to be ugly!!

[bunker]

We never got value. We outbid other teams for all of those guys on the open market. We made Jefferson the highest paid defender in the league until we broke our own record to make Bighill the highest paid defender in the CFL. That's how we got Harris and Bryant here too.

We signed Jefferson in 2019 for 210,000. Toronto offered him 235,000, but he chose to sign here. He won defensive player of the year that year, and we won 2 Grey Cups. Since then he's made between 200 and 225,000 per year while until recently being among the best defensive ends in the league. Look around at the defensive lineman making over 200,000. Look at Robbie Smith making 270,000, or Betts at 260,000 (yes I know he's a Nat, so what, he's overpaid).  I'd say we got lots of value for our money until recently.

We signed Bighill in 2018 for 175,000. He won defensive player of the year that year. He re-signed for 3 years in 2019 at 250,000 per year, but one year later took at pay cut to 120,000 per year, and we won a second grey cup. He was making less than Tony Jones. Pretty difficult to argue that was not great value.

Stanley Bryant has generally been among the highest paid O-lineman in the league, until recently. He has also consistently been the best O-lineman in the league until very recently. As an example, in 2021, he was tied for highest paid O-lineman with Sean McKewen at 180,000. By way of comparison lesser talents like Joel Figueroa were paid 167,500, and Sukh Chungh 165,000. From 2017 to 2022 there was only one year where he did not win most outstanding offensive lineman in the CFL. Compare to Jamarcus signed by riders at 230,000. Hard to argue that wasn't great value.

Collaros signed a 2 year extension with Winnipeg in 2020 after being traded the year before with an average salary of 470,000 per year. He won MOP in 2021 and 2022, and led us to Grey Cup victories in 2019 and 2021. Riley and BLM were making 700,000 in 2019, and even after restructuring, they made 525,000 and 516,000 in 2021. Trevor Harris made 525,000! Collaros "hard money" is listed by 3 downation as 410,000 for 2021, while Fajardo was 404,000. Its pretty hard to argue we did not get great value from Zach during the first 3 years of his tenure here. Getting the MOP for 2 years and winning 2 Grey Cups while paying Zach less than 3 other QBS performing worse, and not much more than Fajardo. Hard to argue that's not great value.

We didn't get clearance prices on our star players, you almost never do for established free agents. But Walters got more than excellent value for these players while they were in their primes, and they were an essential part of our success. We are paying Jefferson and Bryant about the same now, but their performance has fallen off. Zach is making over 100,000 more, and is no where near the player he was 3-4 years ago. We got great value in the early years of our success. We are not getting great value now.

Its common for successful teams to hang onto fading stars too long. I'm not surprised it happened, and although its frustrating, I accept  putting up with a year or two of "legacy" contracts before we start to rebuild as the cost of loyalty to these players, given the success they brought us.

[TecnoGenius]

We definitely need him running straight forward much more.

I'm not sure that's always the best use of Willie.  Did you see how teams that get close to beating (or actually beating) SSK & MTL are doing it?  Saturate the lanes with rushers but hold back and everyone jumps for batdowns.

That might be the only way to beat the T.Harris quick pass game.  Willie would be perfect in that role.  Trying to get to the QB is pointless unless someone gets through the interior untouched, because Harris will have that ball gone way before you get there.

[TecnoGenius]

Its common for successful teams to hang onto fading stars too long. I'm not surprised it happened, and although its frustrating, I accept  putting up with a year or two of "legacy" contracts before we start to rebuild as the cost of loyalty to these players, given the success they brought us.

Great post!  I think KW has always been good at getting value, whether on a "value" player or a star player.  In fact, I think maybe the only player KW didn't win on value was Brady!  Not because Brady isn't great, but because that's the only time we're aware of that WM made KW overpay vs what he wanted to pay.

You have to hand it to KW, he always gets his man at the price he wants.  Or the man walks.  It's the Mafia way.  (The Brady thing gets a pass because he's the hometown hero and worth 10X his small "extra" cost in revenue.)

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Great post!  I think KW has always been good at getting value, whether on a "value" player or a star player.  In fact, I think maybe the only player KW didn't win on value was Brady!  Not because Brady isn't great, but because that's the only time we're aware of that WM made KW overpay vs what he wanted to pay.

You have to hand it to KW, he always gets his man at the price he wants.  Or the man walks.  It's the Mafia way.  (The Brady thing gets a pass because he's the hometown hero and worth 10X his small "extra" cost in revenue.)

Of all the players that have left the Bombers in FA for more money, I don't recall any back and forth on numbers. That might have gone on with Brady but I did not hear which team was actually making counter offers, maybe it was just bluffing from his agent. It seems once Walters receives the opening bid  he pays the price or folds his cards and moves onto plan B, avoiding a bidding war.

[Jesse]

Of all the players that have left the Bombers in FA for more money, I don't recall any back and forth on numbers. That might have gone on with Brady but I did not hear which team was actually making counter offers, maybe it was just bluffing from his agent. It seems once Walters receives the opening bid  he pays the price or folds his cards and moves onto plan B, avoiding a bidding war.

We're obviously not privy to the negotiations, but they're happening.

CFL does the negotiation window where all teams are able to present their offers and then the teams are given the opportunity to beat those offers. There's obviously going to be some back and forth during that time.

Though, with many of our exiting FA's, the offers from other teams are so exorbitant that Walters probably knows prior to FA that we're not in the running.