2024-2025 CFL (non-Bomber) off-season discussion

[blue_gold_84]

"I don't think it was handled right," he said. "I understand it's business, nothing personal. But in business there's communication. And there wasn't any communication, really."

What does that even mean? It's pretty ambiguous. Much in the same vein as with Harris and Bailey.

This whole narrative regarding the lack of communication by the WFC with a few players seems feeble at best. And there's no documentation to speak of; it's just vague statements to the media from what seem like a few jilted former players.

FWIW, I do think they dropped the ball with Grant. He should've been re-signed, IMO.

[theaardvark]

So, when the club communicates with a player they do not have plans for (Bailey), they get slagged.  When the team doesn't communicate with a player they do not have plans for, they get slagged.

How much is the proper response?

When I get an unsolicited sales call or email, unless it is very compelling (and those usually end up as fake), I give them zero response. I find that any response, even in the negative, opens up the opportunity for a followup offer/demand.  Which wastes more of my time.

If it is a charity, or something armslength but related to my business, I will usually give a polite but cursory response. Most of the time, that ends the inquiry.

Why do players think that they "deserve" consideration?  Do they somehow think the team doesn't know who they are, what they can do, what their price ask will be?  Do they think a phone call entitles them to an opportunity to plead their case, even though the team has expressed no interest?

The WFC is a very honourable and fair dealing team, with a family dynamic envied around the league.  Moving on from a player who was part of that family is often necessary, and at the best of times, difficult. 

Has there ever been a case of the team (barring injury or other loss of a player) saying, "Hey, what about so and so, is he still available?  Maybe we should give him a call"? 

This is a professional organization, they have charts and lists of current roster, prospects on the horizon, past players, other teams potential free agents/cuts.  They are tracking hundreds of players at any time, with varying levels of detail on them, and varying levels of interest. 

I do not doubt there is a list of "We know these guys, and even at ELC, they do not fit into our plans barring other catastrophic circumstances".  Like Bailey/Wilson.  Now it doesn't always work out that amazingly well, but decisions like those are part of this game.  Had they signed Bailey to even an ELC contract, and Schoen not get hurt, Wilson likely doesn't see the field.  And we miss out on a 1000 yard guy on an ELC.

I get that players like Harris, Jeffcoat, Jovon Johnson, Bailey all may "deserve" better, but at what time does unreturned phone calls or "we're not interested at this time" become insufficient in terms of a "break up"?  We all know of or been in a messy breakup where one party just doesn't get it that it is over, right?  And its not fair that the the party breaking up is subjected to ongoing torment, and eventually derision from the other side. 

What is really odd is that after the WFC moved on from Harris, he still came back to retire as a Bomber, and knowing the team and coaches here was surprised that he wasn't pursued for a coaching gig.  I wish him well in SSK, I think he fits into their coaching style a lot better than ours. But I really don't think we "missed out on" hiring him, both now and before.

Some players need to be more professional, and when a team decides (rightly or wrongly) that they want to spend their time and capspace elsewhere, maybe its just time to move on.

[ModAdmin]

Fact is we are hearing only one side of the story. Contract negotiations are complex with often dozens of players to deal with.  Walters has said as much with offers that have gone out with sometimes no response to them and the player ends up signing with another team. I don't think its as simple as some make it to be.  We need two sides of the story and that can be difficult with privacy issues.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

So, when the club communicates with a player they do not have plans for (Bailey), they get slagged.  When the team doesn't communicate with a player they do not have plans for, they get slagged.

How much is the proper response?

When I get an unsolicited sales call or email, unless it is very compelling (and those usually end up as fake), I give them zero response. I find that any response, even in the negative, opens up the opportunity for a followup offer/demand.  Which wastes more of my time.

If it is a charity, or something armslength but related to my business, I will usually give a polite but cursory response. Most of the time, that ends the inquiry.

Why do players think that they "deserve" consideration?  Do they somehow think the team doesn't know who they are, what they can do, what their price ask will be?  Do they think a phone call entitles them to an opportunity to plead their case, even though the team has expressed no interest?

The WFC is a very honourable and fair dealing team, with a family dynamic envied around the league.  Moving on from a player who was part of that family is often necessary, and at the best of times, difficult. 

Has there ever been a case of the team (barring injury or other loss of a player) saying, "Hey, what about so and so, is he still available?  Maybe we should give him a call"? 

This is a professional organization, they have charts and lists of current roster, prospects on the horizon, past players, other teams potential free agents/cuts.  They are tracking hundreds of players at any time, with varying levels of detail on them, and varying levels of interest. 

I do not doubt there is a list of "We know these guys, and even at ELC, they do not fit into our plans barring other catastrophic circumstances".  Like Bailey/Wilson.  Now it doesn't always work out that amazingly well, but decisions like those are part of this game.  Had they signed Bailey to even an ELC contract, and Schoen not get hurt, Wilson likely doesn't see the field.  And we miss out on a 1000 yard guy on an ELC.

I get that players like Harris, Jeffcoat, Jovon Johnson, Bailey all may "deserve" better, but at what time does unreturned phone calls or "we're not interested at this time" become insufficient in terms of a "break up"?  We all know of or been in a messy breakup where one party just doesn't get it that it is over, right?  And its not fair that the the party breaking up is subjected to ongoing torment, and eventually derision from the other side. 

What is really odd is that after the WFC moved on from Harris, he still came back to retire as a Bomber, and knowing the team and coaches here was surprised that he wasn't pursued for a coaching gig.  I wish him well in SSK, I think he fits into their coaching style a lot better than ours. But I really don't think we "missed out on" hiring him, both now and before.

Some players need to be more professional, and when a team decides (rightly or wrongly) that they want to spend their time and capspace elsewhere, maybe its just time to move on.

What you fail to recognize is poor communication adds to the stress a player goes through between contracts, they are literally between jobs that sustain their livelihood with no sense of where they are going to end up. Much worse if they have a family to support. A professionally trained personnel manager understands this scenario and is equipped to addresses it head on, as communicating well in all situations is a huge part of that job.

I'd suggest it's past time for the Bombers to move on from the overgrown ball boy they've given the job to for life and hire a qualified professional. It's a bizarre coincidence Wade Miller still runs one of the biggest staffing agency in Wpg!

[Jesse]

So, when the club communicates with a player they do not have plans for (Bailey), they get slagged.  When the team doesn't communicate with a player they do not have plans for, they get slagged.

How much is the proper response?

When I get an unsolicited sales call or email, unless it is very compelling (and those usually end up as fake), I give them zero response. I find that any response, even in the negative, opens up the opportunity for a followup offer/demand.  Which wastes more of my time.

If it is a charity, or something armslength but related to my business, I will usually give a polite but cursory response. Most of the time, that ends the inquiry.

Why do players think that they "deserve" consideration?  Do they somehow think the team doesn't know who they are, what they can do, what their price ask will be?  Do they think a phone call entitles them to an opportunity to plead their case, even though the team has expressed no interest?

The WFC is a very honourable and fair dealing team, with a family dynamic envied around the league.  Moving on from a player who was part of that family is often necessary, and at the best of times, difficult. 

Has there ever been a case of the team (barring injury or other loss of a player) saying, "Hey, what about so and so, is he still available?  Maybe we should give him a call"? 

This is a professional organization, they have charts and lists of current roster, prospects on the horizon, past players, other teams potential free agents/cuts.  They are tracking hundreds of players at any time, with varying levels of detail on them, and varying levels of interest. 

I do not doubt there is a list of "We know these guys, and even at ELC, they do not fit into our plans barring other catastrophic circumstances".  Like Bailey/Wilson.  Now it doesn't always work out that amazingly well, but decisions like those are part of this game.  Had they signed Bailey to even an ELC contract, and Schoen not get hurt, Wilson likely doesn't see the field.  And we miss out on a 1000 yard guy on an ELC.

I get that players like Harris, Jeffcoat, Jovon Johnson, Bailey all may "deserve" better, but at what time does unreturned phone calls or "we're not interested at this time" become insufficient in terms of a "break up"?  We all know of or been in a messy breakup where one party just doesn't get it that it is over, right?  And its not fair that the the party breaking up is subjected to ongoing torment, and eventually derision from the other side. 

What is really odd is that after the WFC moved on from Harris, he still came back to retire as a Bomber, and knowing the team and coaches here was surprised that he wasn't pursued for a coaching gig.  I wish him well in SSK, I think he fits into their coaching style a lot better than ours. But I really don't think we "missed out on" hiring him, both now and before.

Some players need to be more professional, and when a team decides (rightly or wrongly) that they want to spend their time and capspace elsewhere, maybe its just time to move on.

I don't know what the full story is with some of these players. But this is a pretty homer take on things.

It's hard to read your statement that we have a "honourable and fair dealing team, with a family dynamic envied around the league" but also see you say "Why do players think that they "deserve" consideration?"

Those statements seem opposed to one another.

If you want to say "we're a family", you do have to have those tough conversations and if they are leaving long standing players hanging on the vine without any communication, the family comments should rightfully get slagged. If players are messaging the club and being ignored; that's business sometimes...but it ain't a family.

If agents are being told by the club that the team can't make any promises and that things have to unfold and we'll see, and players aren't hearing that message, then it's a whole other thing. But again, if you want to make those "family" and "respect" and "honorable" comments about your organization, then the players absolutely deserve consideration.

[theaardvark]

I don't know what the full story is with some of these players. But this is a pretty homer take on things.

It's hard to read your statement that we have a "honourable and fair dealing team, with a family dynamic envied around the league" but also see you say "Why do players think that they "deserve" consideration?"

Those statements seem opposed to one another.

If you want to say "we're a family", you do have to have those tough conversations and if they are leaving long standing players hanging on the vine without any communication, the family comments should rightfully get slagged. If players are messaging the club and being ignored; that's business sometimes...but it ain't a family.

If agents are being told by the club that the team can't make any promises and that things have to unfold and we'll see, and players aren't hearing that message, then it's a whole other thing. But again, if you want to make those "family" and "respect" and "honorable" comments about your organization, then the players absolutely deserve consideration.

Those statements are not opposed.  You can have a respectful family organization while not keeping every player you've ever signed.

Some of the players that have said they felt "disrespected" have never played again.  Some got deals elsewhere, but proved that the WFC had made the proper decision to move on.  And occasionally, a player has a year or two more good years.

How much hand holding and consolation does a team need to provide a player once they've decided to move on?   Do players/agents not understand when a "call is not returned" what that means?  Anyone who has ever been in the dating pool understands what that message is.

[dd]

I m not sure what happened in the Jeffcoat situation and why we didn't reach out and offer him a contract, but we didn't replace the talent lost by not signing him and our pass rush suffered immensely. We had a killer rush with JJ and WJ at the ends. Without JJ, we had a below average rush at best. Also, if Jeffcoat wanted to continue playing football, it's funny he didn't sign with another team.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Those statements are not opposed.  You can have a respectful family organization while not keeping every player you've ever signed.

Some of the players that have said they felt "disrespected" have never played again.  Some got deals elsewhere, but proved that the WFC had made the proper decision to move on.  And occasionally, a player has a year or two more good years.

How much hand holding and consolation does a team need to provide a player once they've decided to move on?   Do players/agents not understand when a "call is not returned" what that means?  Anyone who has ever been in the dating pool understands what that message is.

Seems like a painless way to get rid of Bighill, how would you feel if the Bombers just ghosted him?  His situation isn't much different than Jeffcoat's, except Biggie is 3 years older and missed half seasons at a time due to serious injuries a number of times instead of a few games here and there due to maintenance. 

[blue_gold_84]

Seems like a painless way to get rid of Bighill, how would you feel if the Bombers just ghosted him?

Has the WFC ever actually ghosted one of its players? Nah. So, the what if game seems a bit silly here.

We never got the full story on Jeffcoat; just his side.

[dd]

I am sure the subject of next year is discussed in the player exit interviews or if not, the player has the opportunity to ask where he stands with the club vs say nothing and wait for a phone call. And if your phone call never came, you have an agent, have him inquire, and if no calls are returned, call other teams to see if you can catch on. But I agree with the players on this, it seems classless if after a number of seasons, the team doesn't have the decency to thank you for your service and wish you well, but 'we're going in another direction' speil. But again, we're only hearing one side of this conversation

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Has the WFC ever actually ghosted one of its players? Nah. So, the what if game seems a bit silly here.

We never got the full story on Jeffcoat; just his side.

What do you call it when they don't return phone calls from former employees?  Andrew Harris said the same a few days ago, what mega-mind decides a call from Andrew Harris is not worthy of returning?  To note, this is not the job of the GM, they have a specific person on staff to handle player relations.

[blue_gold_84]

What do you call it when they don't return phone calls from former employees?  Andrew Harris said the same a few days ago, what mega-mind decides a call from Andrew Harris is not worthy of returning?  To note, this is not the job of the GM, they have a specific person on staff to handle player relations.

Hearsay from former players who whined to the media does not constitute proof of ghosting. Or anything salient, for that matter.

Try again.

[theaardvark]

Is it "ghosting" to not acknowledge an unsolicited approach?  I know I get 50 emails a day wanting me to buy website services, and many will send a second or third "Still waiting for your response". 

I know that if I respond to any, the number then starts to increase, because they know there is someone on the other end.

If you call, and do not get a response, and then call again, and don't get a response, I'm guessing they are not interested.

Football management is a recruiting business, not a sit and wait for players to approach you.  Now, should a coach or player that was of interest to the team were to call, I'm betting they get a returned call.

[markf]

" If players are messaging the club and being ignored; that's business sometimes...but it ain't a family."

If Jeffcoat or his agent is calling or emailing the team, and the team just doesn't respond... that is simply rude.  Being businesslike does not entail being ill mannered.

Jeffcoat was a stalwart.

[blue_gold_84]

" If players are messaging the club and being ignored; that's business sometimes...but it ain't a family."

If Jeffcoat or his agent is calling or emailing the team, and the team just doesn't respond... that is simply rude.  Being businesslike does not entail being ill mannered.

Jeffcoat was a stalwart.

There are typically three sides to every story:
 - person/party 1's account
 - person/party 2's account
 - what actually happened

Unless I've missed something, we've only got one side, which is that of the player and made public by the local sports media. And the latter of which strives for catchy quotes and sensationalism to push engagement.

Jeffcoat was a stalwart, no question. He also dealt with numerous injuries during his tenure and missed a significant number of games. All of that would've factored in with regard to ongoing contract renewal negotiations.

The notion that management turned their back on him and ignored his calls - without any other information or context - just flies in the face of how the WFC has operated under this regime.