Seven Blue Bombers named to Divisional All-CFL Team

[TecnoGenius]

So we re going to move our all star to be the 6th O line?? Doesn't make much sense

All depends how WFC grades them out.  Just because media & PFF are rating Dobson highly, doesn't mean he's not our main problem.

And I'm not even blaming Dobson.  The problem may be Neufeld.  Or the problem is in the middle with Ko-man.  But almost no one will say our interior OL is anywhere near above league average.

As someone else said, our OL was magically much better the instant we put Randolph in at guard... explain that, eh?

Let's hope the problem isn't Ko-man (I'm not making any bets!) because getting a quality Couture-level C in the off-season that can play year 1 is basically impossible unless we pay Couture-stealing money in FA.  Which we never do, so let's forget about it.

[theaardvark]

All depends how WFC grades them out.  Just because media & PFF are rating Dobson highly, doesn't mean he's not our main problem.

And I'm not even blaming Dobson.  The problem may be Neufeld.  Or the problem is in the middle with Ko-man.  But almost no one will say our interior OL is anywhere near above league average.

As someone else said, our OL was magically much better the instant we put Randolph in at guard... explain that, eh?

Let's hope the problem isn't Ko-man (I'm not making any bets!) because getting a quality Couture-level C in the off-season that can play year 1 is basically impossible unless we pay Couture-stealing money in FA.  Which we never do, so let's forget about it.

So, they are so bad that Brady won the rushing title?

[TecnoGenius]

So, they are so bad that Brady won the rushing title?

Both things can be true simultaneously.

A) We are a run-mostly team.  We literally run on 1st most of most games because that's what we do.  I bet Brady had literally dozens more carries than the next guy.

B) We seem to be grading better on the run-blocking than pass-pro.  Most will say our interior (and RT) pass-pro has left a lot to be desired.

Clearly our OL is pretty stinky compared to our dominant years like 2021, especially in terms of protecting Zach.  Remember how we'd go entire swathes of the season where Zach would get hit 0 or 1 times a game?  Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

So, they are so bad that Brady won the rushing title?

It's not really run blocking that has declined, although I swear it has since Gray and Yoshi left. It's the amount of sacks given up over the past 3 years that has increased significantly that are threatening Zach's well being.  Remember well before 2019 the O-line was able to keep Matt Nichols completely clean for games on end. The decline has been ongoing for awhile now.

[TecnoGenius]

Remember well before 2019 the O-line was able to keep Matt Nichols completely clean for games on end. The decline has been ongoing for awhile now.

Very true.  It's a slow drip.  I think the quality of NAT OL you can get in 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounds has been dropping significantly.  The general level of OL talent coming out of U sports may be dropping, too.

That's why I think we should look to IMPs to shore up the problem since we always have the ratio space.  For instance, why not an IMP C?  No one ever even peeks at those guys.  Surely there must be a lot of them out there to scout?

I'm not against starting 4(!!) IMP OL until we can fix our fairly bad OL drafting.  But clearly the changes have to come in TC and week 1, as MOS will not make drastic changes late-season.

Or, study what the current great OLs teams are doing: how are they building such impenetrable walls?  Just copy it.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Very true.  It's a slow drip.  I think the quality of NAT OL you can get in 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounds has been dropping significantly.  The general level of OL talent coming out of U sports may be dropping, too.

That's why I think we should look to IMPs to shore up the problem since we always have the ratio space.  For instance, why not an IMP C?  No one ever even peeks at those guys.  Surely there must be a lot of them out there to scout?

I'm not against starting 4(!!) IMP OL until we can fix our fairly bad OL drafting.  But clearly the changes have to come in TC and week 1, as MOS will not make drastic changes late-season.

Or, study what the current great OLs teams are doing: how are they building such impenetrable walls?  Just copy it.

What are you going on about? We've had the best offensive line in the league by a wide margin (and probably one of the best ever) for about five years. This year they're middle of the pack. Actually, the third best run blocking line and fifth in pass protection.

It's going to need a bit of work in the off season but it's not terrible and what possible changes would you have made in the off season leading up to this season?

...and bad drafting? Seriously?

[TecnoGenius]

What are you going on about? We've had the best offensive line in the league by a wide margin (and probably one of the best ever) for about five years. This year they're middle of the pack. Actually, the third best run blocking line and fifth in pass protection.

Our best was maybe 2021, maybe 2022.  That's when it started that when we lost a star guy to big$ FA we replaced him with someone not as good.  I can't really think of an exception!

Couture to Ko-man: downgrade.
Desjar to Gray: huge downgrade
Gray to Dobson: downgrade
Yoshi to Lofton: huge downgrade (made less painful by Yoshi going IR all year)

Add in the slightly worse performance year after year with the geriatric Big Stan and Neufeld.  Still very good/great guys, but not 2022 great.  Someone else posted how after 32 it's steadily downhill for OL.

It's nothing but downgrades.  Sometimes slight (Gray to Dobson), sometimes egregious (Desjar to Gray).

It all adds up.  In '23 we were still able to make it hold together, but in '24 the dam has broken.

Have you seen our OL against the league top-3 pass-rush teams?  Like TOR@WPG the other day in a must-win game?  Ya, that's not a dominant OL anymore.  That's a get-Zach-killed hope-we-can-outplay-our-talent-for-a-half-of-football OL.  And we run jumbo more than every other team because of it!

Like you said with your rankings, we aren't the worst.  That's not the point.  The point is there are probably 3 OLs now that make ours look like children.

Ask yourself this, would this lineup be better or worse than our current one?  Because if we had wanted to spend the $$ (ya, pipe dream) we could right now be fielding:

BRYANT DESJAR COUTURE NEUFELD HARDRICK(if healthy)

Now that would be the best OL in the league and no one would touch Zach!

I can't believe you don't see it.

...and bad drafting? Seriously?

"Bad" as in "not as good as the superior OLs right now".  Not bad as in "horrifically awful turnstiles".

Look at us giving up our 1RDP in draft24.  Look at us not taking OL until way down the rounds in some/many of the last 5 years.

Look at us not making any FA OL splash since Stan & Yoshi.  Even worse, we always let our top NATs walk for big $$ after cup appearances.

And our hopper/pipeline for OL is as bad as it's ever been!  The cupboard is bare.  It's so bare we had to resort to an IMP OG for the first time since Bond left in '17!

And because we get to the cup every year, the drafting situation won't be fixed anytime soon unless we start trading for some 1RDPs.

Something's gotta give.  We'll have to become FA buyers, not sellers, or we need to find solutions in cheaper IMP guards (which I advocate).

Our OL is still good enough to win games, even WDFs and GCs, but they certainly aren't league top-3, or our top-3 team unit.  We win in spite of them, not because of them.

I have a strange feeling that after this cup appearance in 2 weeks it'll be the first time in forever that teams aren't looking to offer our OL guys huge FA$$ of $200k+.  That will be the final proof, and it may be our saving grace.

I fully hope and expect we field a stronger OL in '25.  I'll be shocked if it's the same 5 starters as the end of this season.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

If Gray to Dobson is a downgrade to you, you don't understand what you're watching.

[TecnoGenius]

If Gray to Dobson is a downgrade to you, you don't understand what you're watching.

What about 99% of my other points?  You could argue Gray/Dobson.  That's why I said "slight downgrade".  You could argue "slight upgrade" and I'd entertain that idea.

However, our OL with Dobson had a much worse start to the season than our OL with Gray in '23.  Zach has been put on his back more this season than any other, as well as more pressures and throwaways.  It's hard to pinpoint the weak link, because there may not be one: it may be a "weak 2-4 guys"!

I don't have all the answers, but I do know Dobson isn't Desjar.  Pick this nit and call Dobson an upgrade over Gray, my main point still stands.

[Blueforlife]

For all the Lawler bashing going on, you don't pay Lawler for making easy yards, you pay him for making the tough catches, in tough coverage, at vital moments.

His catches don't often dazzle the stat sheets, but they make the highlight reels.  He can make a 20 yard contested catch, and make the team feel like it scored a TD.  He's a momentum changer. 

In a perfect world, he'd get 1500 yards and also make those spectacular plays.  But a lot of the time, he's pulling coverage so that other guys can make catches. 

As to anyone thinking Kenny sees this as "a snub", I don't think that i fair.  From what I'veseen, Kenny is proud f his catches, but isn't a "me first" kind of player.  That'd never fly with Osh, and he'd never have been brought back. 

He's the one handed catch toe tap inbounds in triple coverage for a TD kinda guy.  The guy that's top of the checkdowns when the game is on the line.  And either he gets the throw, or has drawn defender away from the guy that gets it. 

IMHO, he's been worth every penny, and if we can get him for less next year as salaries correct themselves, we're getting a deal.

People love to be over critical.  He is money.  Agree all.  Let's make sure he retires here.  Exceptional talent, game changer!

Our OL has been exceptional for many years and we had a rough start but came out pretty average.  Up and down year based on the opponent.  Room for improvement and the backbone of any top club.

[ModAdmin]

It's odd that some people like to focus on "downgrades, aging detrimental, as well as "better teams" in 2022/23.

Yet somehow, with all those negatives, we have managed to climb out of a hole, end up in first place in the west resulting in a bye in the semi-finals and a free ticket to the Western Final.  To me, the rhetoric about us being on a down hill trend is premature and not proven.  In fact, our current status shows that we are the best team in the West.

Maybe wait until the season is over before diminishing the team with these types of comments.  We have earned the right to be in the Western Final in OUR stadium and we seem to be odds on favourite to win that game.  Enjoy the ride!

[Jesse]

I don't think anyone is consistently focusing on downgrades.

But within this amazing run we've been on over the past several years, there's the context that we've struggled much more this year. And looking forward to both potential play-off math-ups and ahead to next season, it's fair to discuss why we've struggled and if we have hope for improvement.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

What about 99% of my other points?  You could argue Gray/Dobson.  That's why I said "slight downgrade".  You could argue "slight upgrade" and I'd entertain that idea.

Except that it's not a "slight downgrade" and you can entertain whatever you like. I agree that without some change it doesn't seem logical that the starting five will improve next year just based on age and natural regression. I am already on record saying we will need to do something and I am absolutely sure we will.

However, what changes would you have made to the offensive line last off-season? Because that's where you would have had to do it. Would you have passed on Stanley Bryant? Matched the Riders offer on Hardrick? Moved on from Kolankowski or Neufeld? Who would you have got that was available instead? Not so easy. And if there's one thing the Bombers have nailed since 2019 it's a very good offensive line. I'm sure they're working on it and projecting out to this off-season already. If you think you've noticed a decline I am pretty certain they have too. Right?

If you care to look you can see steps are being taken. There are no magic solutions. They obviously really like Vanterpool and Randolph. They've been working hard to get those guys pay cheques and they're on the 1-game IR for what I assume will be the entire playoffs because they want them back next year (no PR release for them) and they want them happy.  They've given Gabe Wallace as many snaps as he can handle and they've really made an effort to keep him on the field which is rare for a first year Canadian offensive lineman.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

It's odd that some people like to focus on "downgrades, aging detrimental, as well as "better teams" in 2022/23.

Yet somehow, with all those negatives, we have managed to climb out of a hole, end up in first place in the west resulting in a bye in the semi-finals and a free ticket to the Western Final.  To me, the rhetoric about us being on a down hill trend is premature and not proven.  In fact, our current status shows that we are the best team in the West.

Maybe wait until the season is over before diminishing the team with these types of comments.  We have earned the right to be in the Western Final in OUR stadium and we seem to be odds on favourite to win that game.  Enjoy the ride!

Sure, "best in the West", take a gander over the garden wall, the 2 best teams in the CFL now reside in the East.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Except that it's not a "slight downgrade" and you can entertain whatever you like. I agree that without some change it doesn't seem logical that the starting five will improve next year just based on age and natural regression. I am already on record saying we will need to do something and I am absolutely sure we will.

However, what changes would you have made to the offensive line last off-season? Because that's where you would have had to do it. Would you have passed on Stanley Bryant? Matched the Riders offer on Hardrick? Moved on from Kolankowski or Neufeld? Who would you have got that was available instead? Not so easy. And if there's one thing the Bombers have nailed since 2019 it's a very good offensive line. I'm sure they're working on it and projecting out to this off-season already. If you think you've noticed a decline I am pretty certain they have too. Right?

If you care to look you can see steps are being taken. There are no magic solutions. They obviously really like Vanterpool and Randolph. They've been working hard to get those guys pay cheques and they're on the 1-game IR for what I assume will be the entire playoffs because they want them back next year (no PR release for them) and they want them happy.  They've given Gabe Wallace as many snaps as he can handle and they've really made an effort to keep him on the field which is rare for a first year Canadian offensive lineman.

I would say in recent years the Natl. O-lineman pipeline has not always produced the needed replacements starting with Eli, who in his 4th year remains the 6th O-lineman and looks to have been bypassed by a younger prospect. Recent draft picks such as MB grads Adamamson and Kornelson have been quickly rejected, leaving Gabe Wallace as the sole Natl.left in the pipeline.

It could be their higher draft placement has hurt their efforts in the last 4 years with other teams snapping up the best prospects before they have the chance to select.  From last years draft they picked 4 O-linemen, 3 of which either returned to college or are floating in limbo.

KALRA, Ethan
Waterloo

MANU, Giovanni (currently Detroit Lions 3rd backup)
UBC

VLAHOGIANNIS, Michael
McGill