M. Betts released....signed with BC

[Blue In BC]

Yeah, so the vitriol seems a little unjustified.

Although we could have stayed under the limit last year has we played everyone. We chose to sit a bunch of people which I think was the thing that pushed us over.

That's the thing that happens at the end of the season. Teams put a bunch of starters on the 1 game IR and activate 5 or 6 PR players. On the PR they possibly earn $1K? On the AR on an ELC they earn about $4K. That's $3K X 6 for example which was the bulk of the overage above our SMS.

We have been doing that for the last couple of games to prevent injuries to more starters.

A team could just bench some starters an play all the back ups, but this gives some PR players some actual game time. It also gives them a bump in their earnings after sitting on the PR for most of the season.

[Jesse]

That's the thing that happens at the end of the season. Teams put a bunch of starters on the 1 game IR and activate 5 or 6 PR players. On the PR they possibly earn $1K? On the AR on an ELC they earn about $4K. That's $3K X 6 for example which was the bulk of the overage above our SMS.

We have been doing that for the last couple of games to prevent injuries to more starters.

A team could just bench some starters an play all the back ups, but this gives some PR players some actual game time. It also gives them a bump in their earnings after sitting on the PR for most of the season.

Yep, I get it.

Just pointing out how fluid the cap is. No one is over it right now, there is still almost half a season of moves to make.

[ichabod_crane]

Case in point....2013 Cryders....Taman trades away draft picks like a drunken sailor the prior few years to load up for 2013 + goes on a FA spending frenzy that season specifically. Worked for them in 2013 and I don't recall how much they were over the cap, but then went backwards after that the next year and really off the cliff afterwards. Canadian talent cupboard was bare and little coming up the pipeline as drafts picks were gonzo. Long in the tooth vets were gonzo within two years.

Taman pulled the same stunts in Winnipeg and it got them to a cup once, but he sacrificed following seasons with his wild gambles.

If it's true BC may be way over the cap for this season, then they will have to pony up with lost draft picks and triple fines I believe over $100,000. They really better hope their gamble pays off as their following seasons will take a hit just like Sask did in 2013.

[pdirks67]

I don't think anyone has posted yesterday's 3DownNation opinion piece on this subject. I actually agree with this take. Essentially - there are pretty stiff "costs" to exceeding the salary cap in terms of fines and draft picks. If you're willing to pay these costs, go for it. And I don't think anyone could go too, too hog wild with this. I mean, BC will be over - but likely in the range of low 6-figures, which is sort of peanuts? If there is an arms race in this arena, I like the Bombers chances of successfully competing with anyone.

https://3downnation.com/2024/08/29/opinion-b-c-lions-gaming-cfl-salary-cap-and-theres-nothing-wrong-with-that/

Opinion: B.C. Lions gaming CFL salary cap (and there's nothing wrong with that)
Nobody likes a cheater.

Almost nothing rankles sports fans quite like the idea that someone is gaming the system or circumventing the rulebook to gain a personal advantage. Even perceived ethical missteps can prompt a rabid outcry from the public or accusations of conspiracy.

In the CFL, the league's salary expenditure cap is an easy target for such protests. With player contract information never made public, speculation can run rampant over which teams might be overspending, usually accompanied by an inference of favouritism by the commissioner's office.

Generally, it seems like the Toronto Argonauts are in the crosshairs of these allegations, but there is a new target in 2024. After the high-priced mid-season acquisitions of Nathan Rourke and Mathieu Betts, the B.C. Lions have become the villains of the three-down league. In the middle of a five-game losing skid and staring down a chance at a home Grey Cup, the allegation from opposing fan bases is that owner Amar Doman is willing to spend whatever it takes to secure victories — salary cap be damned.

For the first time ever on this topic, fans are probably right.

It's important to note that teams only have to be cap-compliant by the end of the season and a couple of key injuries can quickly swing the balance sheet back into the black. B.C. also trimmed a lot of fat this offseason and has both Keon Hatcher and T.J. Lee on discount deals as they return from torn Achilles. However, by all accounts, the Lions were up against the financial ceiling prior to these latest deals and the lack of off-the-cap marketing money in Betts' contract suggests they will likely be going over the allotted $5.525 million for this year.

You can almost feel the national outrage bubbling at that suggestion, but this isn't evidence of dirty dealings or moral bankruptcy from the West Coast franchise. It is an example of aggressive roster management and should provide a blueprint for others to follow — if they are willing to spend the money needed to win.

The CFL has a soft cap and going over it does not disqualify you from competition or erase your results. There are consequences for excessive spending but these are merely a luxury tax — one which teams pay all the time. In 2023, three went over the salary cap by less than $100,000 and paid dollar-for-dollar fines for their actions: the Lions ($85,979), Blue Bombers ($25,947), and Tiger-Cats ($2,654). In 2022, the number of franchises over-spending was four: Winnipeg ($64,499), Toronto ($49,735), Ottawa ($11,994), and Montreal ($794).

Once you go over the $100,000 mark, the fines stiffen to a penalty of double the amount you exceeded up to $300,000 and triple for anything over that amount. That's a significant cost for a CFL owner but it is the potential loss of draft picks that discourages most from pushing the financial limit, as Montreal experienced in 2007. You can wave goodbye to your next first-round pick once you overspend in the six-figure range and your next second-round pick will follow it out the door at more than $300,000.

As TSN's Farhan Lalji was the first to point out, losing either of those picks wouldn't really matter to the Lions. When Vernon Adams Jr. is presumably traded this offseason, he will almost certainly recoup the franchise a first-rounder and more. The team is also virtually guaranteed to receive a bonus second-round pick by virtue of having the league's highest Canadian snap count — a number that will only increase thanks to Rourke and Betts.

In all likelihood, B.C. will exceed the cap by less than people expect but the reality is that an unprecedented violation would still result in them having a full eight draft selections with a pick in every round. Two fewer players would be picked overall but the Lions would be unscathed. The only meaningful punishment would be a financial one and Doman will be less concerned about that if he can stack the revenue from a home playoff game on top of the guaranteed Grey Cup boost to his bottom line.

To be clear, this is all being done in adherence with the rules that the CFL themselves have laid out. If you are willing to absorb the punishments, there is nothing stopping any franchise from spending what they like on players. Are the Lions exploiting a loophole? Maybe, but they are able to do so because of invested ownership, QB depth, and prior acquisition of quality Canadian talent — things that all good CFL franchises should strive for.

There is plenty wrong with the way this year's B.C. team is constructed and it is being exposed during their losing skid. However, the way that the front office has managed these latest acquisitions has been a masterclass on aggressive team-building. If it works, any team bold enough to prioritize winning would be wise to copy their model when the opportunity presents itself.

As the old saying goes: if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. There are a lot of CFL teams that could benefit from trying a little harder.

[blue_or_die]

The Salary Expenditure CAP for each Member Club shall be no less than the amounts set out in the following schedule for the following years.

The 3rd column is Non‐Football Related Services minimum additional amount.

Therefore: Total Salary Expenditure Cap = Minimum + CAP is true

However: Total Salary Expenditure Cap = Maximum + CAP is only true if Minimum = Maximum

Therefore, you're arguing the Min=Max

Note: Maximum isn't defined in the CBA and the table you are working off of is just an example table that is Subject to 30.03.

The thing I'm having trouble with still is that the fourth column to the right has the title of "Total Salary Expenditure CAP". So if it's not the maximum, how can they use the word "cap"? It would/should just say "amount" or something if what you're saying is true.

In other words,
"Salary Expenditure Cap" + "Non-Football Related Services Minimum Additional Amount" = Total Salary Expenditure Cap"

"Cap" is a maximum.

Therefore: Football services max + non-football min = total football max.

The non-football min has to also be a max OR it draws from the football pool of money.

[gobombersgo]

Case in point....2013 Cryders....Taman trades away draft picks like a drunken sailor the prior few years to load up for 2013 + goes on a FA spending frenzy that season specifically. Worked for them in 2013 and I don't recall how much they were over the cap, but then went backwards after that the next year and really off the cliff afterwards. Canadian talent cupboard was bare and little coming up the pipeline as drafts picks were gonzo. Long in the tooth vets were gonzo within two years.

Taman pulled the same stunts in Winnipeg and it got them to a cup once, but he sacrificed following seasons with his wild gambles.

If it's true BC may be way over the cap for this season, then they will have to pony up with lost draft picks and triple fines I believe over $100,000. They really better hope their gamble pays off as their following seasons will take a hit just like Sask did in 2013.

Riders were only 17k over the cap in 2013.

What Taman did was defer salaries to the following year(s) which limited them in trying to sign players for 2014.

Sure the Riders were all in in trying to get to the Grey Cup in 2013 but they still respected the cap. They just mortgaged their future instead.

Watch Taman's interview from 2014 when it was announced they were over. Sounds like a guy that made an honest effort to not go over.

https://www.riderville.com/2014/04/23/brendan-taman-on-the-2013-salary-cap-april-23/

[J5V]

"Cap" is a maximum.

The way they get around it is by saying it's a "soft" cap not a "hard" cap. So yeah, it's a cap, like it's made of rubber.

[Jesse]

The thing I'm having trouble with still is that the fourth column to the right has the title of "Total Salary Expenditure CAP". So if it's not the maximum, how can they use the word "cap"? It would/should just say "amount" or something if what you're saying is true.

In other words,
"Salary Expenditure Cap" + "Non-Football Related Services Minimum Additional Amount" = Total Salary Expenditure Cap"

"Cap" is a maximum.

Therefore: Football services max + non-football min = total football max.

The non-football min has to also be a max OR it draws from the football pool of money.

And around and around we go.

[Jesse]

I don't think anyone has posted yesterday's 3DownNation opinion piece on this subject. I actually agree with this take. Essentially - there are pretty stiff "costs" to exceeding the salary cap in terms of fines and draft picks. If you're willing to pay these costs, go for it. And I don't think anyone could go too, too hog wild with this. I mean, BC will be over - but likely in the range of low 6-figures, which is sort of peanuts? If there is an arms race in this arena, I like the Bombers chances of successfully competing with anyone.

https://3downnation.com/2024/08/29/opinion-b-c-lions-gaming-cfl-salary-cap-and-theres-nothing-wrong-with-that/

Opinion: B.C. Lions gaming CFL salary cap (and there's nothing wrong with that)
Nobody likes a cheater.

Almost nothing rankles sports fans quite like the idea that someone is gaming the system or circumventing the rulebook to gain a personal advantage. Even perceived ethical missteps can prompt a rabid outcry from the public or accusations of conspiracy.

In the CFL, the league's salary expenditure cap is an easy target for such protests. With player contract information never made public, speculation can run rampant over which teams might be overspending, usually accompanied by an inference of favouritism by the commissioner's office.

Generally, it seems like the Toronto Argonauts are in the crosshairs of these allegations, but there is a new target in 2024. After the high-priced mid-season acquisitions of Nathan Rourke and Mathieu Betts, the B.C. Lions have become the villains of the three-down league. In the middle of a five-game losing skid and staring down a chance at a home Grey Cup, the allegation from opposing fan bases is that owner Amar Doman is willing to spend whatever it takes to secure victories — salary cap be damned.

For the first time ever on this topic, fans are probably right.

It's important to note that teams only have to be cap-compliant by the end of the season and a couple of key injuries can quickly swing the balance sheet back into the black. B.C. also trimmed a lot of fat this offseason and has both Keon Hatcher and T.J. Lee on discount deals as they return from torn Achilles. However, by all accounts, the Lions were up against the financial ceiling prior to these latest deals and the lack of off-the-cap marketing money in Betts' contract suggests they will likely be going over the allotted $5.525 million for this year.

You can almost feel the national outrage bubbling at that suggestion, but this isn't evidence of dirty dealings or moral bankruptcy from the West Coast franchise. It is an example of aggressive roster management and should provide a blueprint for others to follow — if they are willing to spend the money needed to win.

The CFL has a soft cap and going over it does not disqualify you from competition or erase your results. There are consequences for excessive spending but these are merely a luxury tax — one which teams pay all the time. In 2023, three went over the salary cap by less than $100,000 and paid dollar-for-dollar fines for their actions: the Lions ($85,979), Blue Bombers ($25,947), and Tiger-Cats ($2,654). In 2022, the number of franchises over-spending was four: Winnipeg ($64,499), Toronto ($49,735), Ottawa ($11,994), and Montreal ($794).

Once you go over the $100,000 mark, the fines stiffen to a penalty of double the amount you exceeded up to $300,000 and triple for anything over that amount. That's a significant cost for a CFL owner but it is the potential loss of draft picks that discourages most from pushing the financial limit, as Montreal experienced in 2007. You can wave goodbye to your next first-round pick once you overspend in the six-figure range and your next second-round pick will follow it out the door at more than $300,000.

As TSN's Farhan Lalji was the first to point out, losing either of those picks wouldn't really matter to the Lions. When Vernon Adams Jr. is presumably traded this offseason, he will almost certainly recoup the franchise a first-rounder and more. The team is also virtually guaranteed to receive a bonus second-round pick by virtue of having the league's highest Canadian snap count — a number that will only increase thanks to Rourke and Betts.

In all likelihood, B.C. will exceed the cap by less than people expect but the reality is that an unprecedented violation would still result in them having a full eight draft selections with a pick in every round. Two fewer players would be picked overall but the Lions would be unscathed. The only meaningful punishment would be a financial one and Doman will be less concerned about that if he can stack the revenue from a home playoff game on top of the guaranteed Grey Cup boost to his bottom line.

To be clear, this is all being done in adherence with the rules that the CFL themselves have laid out. If you are willing to absorb the punishments, there is nothing stopping any franchise from spending what they like on players. Are the Lions exploiting a loophole? Maybe, but they are able to do so because of invested ownership, QB depth, and prior acquisition of quality Canadian talent — things that all good CFL franchises should strive for.

There is plenty wrong with the way this year's B.C. team is constructed and it is being exposed during their losing skid. However, the way that the front office has managed these latest acquisitions has been a masterclass on aggressive team-building. If it works, any team bold enough to prioritize winning would be wise to copy their model when the opportunity presents itself.

As the old saying goes: if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. There are a lot of CFL teams that could benefit from trying a little harder.

I also like this take. It's not cheating, but there are penalties to be paid.

I also agree that I doubt they are over by as much people are predicting.

[DM83]

Quit crying.

Everyone does it.

BC is desperate. 
Our management team is pretty good.
We need to expand. Our stadium. Every game is a sell out!

[TecnoGenius]

Quit crying.

Everyone does it.

BC is desperate. 
Our management team is pretty good.
We need to expand. Our stadium. Every game is a sell out!

You're missing the point.  "Everyone does it" by $10k or $30k or $60k.  Possibly because IRs "forced" them to.

NO ONE HAS EVER GONE OVER THE CAP BY $300k+.

This is new territory and an escalation of the talent bidding war.  By all rights Betts should be suiting up for a non-BC team next week... not BC!  It not only helps BC, it hurts the team that would have been 2nd highest bidder: you know, the team that wasn't trying to cheat the cap?

[TecnoGenius]

I also agree that I doubt they are over by as much people are predicting.

Farhan/3down/etc have already spelled out what the likely $$ is.  And it's this: they were maxed out already.  They picked up Rourke for $250k this season, and Betts for $100k+ this season (no pro-rated, this is actualy money!).  Therefore by simple math BC is around $350k over already... and the season isn't done.  Future IR problems could tack on more to the predicted budget.

I will bet huge sums of money BC will be over by $250k+, and bet smaller amounts it's $350k+.  I won't be surprised if in the end it's $400k.

But the final 250/350/whatever doesn't matter for this discussion: what matters is that BC is going to have an overage that is 4X to 6X more than any other team has ever done.  They are going to cause a LOT of problems for everyone by breaking the spirit of the cap, and are opening a huge can of worms.

I also like this take. It's not cheating, but there are penalties to be paid.

Of course it's cheating the "spirit" and intention of the cap.  No one is arguing they aren't allowed to do this per the written rules.  That's not the point.

All of you guys that are happy with BC doing this... you better not be the same people who were posting on the other threads that the CFL can't afford to raise caps by $500k! And that teams are mostly poor and it's so hard to sell teams, yada yada!

So you're KW sitting there with your spreadsheet and doing your best to stay roughly within budget, and succeeding.  Being with $100k is probably "success" in every GMs' & Ambrosie's book.  Then you see BC doing this... and maybe you were eyeing Betts at $80k for the remainder of the season... Ya, I'm thinking you're putting calls into the league right about now.

If we want to take advantage of the "new wild west SMS", we should do it immediately, because if Ambrosie doesn't have the round ones to clamp down now, I bet he does it in the off-season!  That would let BC "buy a home cup" this year, but mean we can't follow suit in 2025.  If all the people crying "CFL is poor!" are right, no way this "cheating" is allowed past 2024.

[TecnoGenius]

I don't think anyone has posted yesterday's 3DownNation opinion piece on this subject. I actually agree with this take. Essentially - there are pretty stiff "costs" to exceeding the salary cap in terms of fines and draft picks. If you're willing to pay these costs, go for it. And I don't think anyone could go too, too hog wild with this. I mean, BC will be over - but likely in the range of low 6-figures, which is sort of peanuts?

The 2 bolded lines can't both be true.  If it's peanuts, they will go hog wild.  To a billionaire, $1M CFL "fine" doesn't mean anything.  Some will be recouped in a win, and if it's not, it's like 1 week's pay.

If I'm Caretaker Young in HAM, I'm watching BC right now thinking "I could have been doing this all along?".  He has more money than Doman.  If this is the new reality, Young needs to be telling his GM to go out right now and overspend by $350k+.  Lord knows they need it.

So you guys liked the Rocket scenario then?  Because that's back on the table.  No limits.  Someone get Mahomes on the phone!

If there is an arms race in this arena, I like the Bombers chances of successfully competing with anyone.

Even our "community owned" team could afford to go $1M over the cap for a sum of $2.6M in fines.  Then maybe we "get back" our 1RDP by trading Kenny or Schoen... just like BC with VAJ.  See... easy peasy!

Yes, if the league and fans are like "this is hunky-dory!" and it's the new arms race, then, yes, we have no choice but to flex our fiscal might and start cheating too.

[TecnoGenius]

It was egregious when they went over cap signing Rourke.  Add on the Betts signing and it's just silly sick now.  They are snubbing their noses at the entire league and calling us suckers.

[J5V]

But, but, but it's for the good of the league. If Wpg is hosting the cup next year, let them spend like drunken sailors. Why would Ambrosie change it? It's for the good of the league, isn't it? Remember the 100th Grey Cup and the mysterious Ricky Ray trade to Toronto? Look at how that's helped the CFL to flourish in Toronto ... er, well ...