PLayer safety

[Pete]

As techno noted in another thread defenses are much more aggressive in 2024. Nearly every coach when they lose points to the physicality in the game.
We've seen some very serious injuries in the game. A few suggestions;
1. The command center can't let egregious hits go. (ie the closeline on wilson) Just because  it's not a qb it's not free season.
2. Start calling excessive violence calls. I know we all love to see our team deliver crushing blows, but these are players lives.
3. Increase the frequency of 25 yard penalties i.e. the hit on lucky whitehead was a spear similar to what gave Collaros a concussion
4.  hits to the unprotected receivers back need to be defined in terms of legality. Ie there's a difference in tackling a receiver and trying to put him into next week (may be same as point 2)
5. early hits to the back of dbs need to be called for pi even if it may not fall under the clear and obvious category. Its not only unfair to the receiver who has little chance to make reception but they aren't braced for it

curious to hear others thoughts.

[Blue In BC]

Would you have defined the Jones hit on the returner that caused a fumble, excessive? We applauded that hit since it went in our favour. If that was our returner would we be screaming for a penalty?

None of us want to see any player on any team injured. Sometimes is a big hit, sometimes it's a normal hit that causes an injury ( like Lawler earlier in the year ).

Item 2: Initial thought was close line. Not so sure until I re-watch. Violent yes but was where was the contact point?

Item 3: hit to Whitehead. Yes it was late but hardly a big hit requiring a 25 yard assessment.

Item 4: is a normal play in a violent sport. How big a hit does it take to prevent the reception? You can't expect the DB to let a receiver make the catch?

It's hard for fans to be totally bias. I'm in favour of rule changes that improve safety. It's a little like the issue with the CC. Where do you draw the line? Live play or slow motion reviews?

[Pete]

Hit to whitehead was very late and to the head, when you see defenders barely touch qbs head its a rtp. To me its exactly a unnecessary hit. To give it the same penalty as small shove is nuts.
 Football is a violent sport but some lines need to be drawn
 Im not talking about the head on hits like jones you mentioned, its the hits on  recievers/players in a vulnerable position. More and more dbs are hitting to injure vs clean tackles
I just used the examples against us but you see it all over the league

[Blue In BC]

Hit to whitehead was very late and yo the head, when you see defenders barely touch qbs head its a rtp. To me its exactly a unnecessary hit. To give it the same penalty as small shove is nuts.
 In the h

It was somewhat late and unnecessary. A penalty was called. I wouldn't say it was very late at game speed. We can't have too many gradations in the yardage called. IMO it's typically a 15 yard situation for that infraction. Same as a glancing blow to a QB's head or face mask.

[TBURGESS]

Quite frankly, I don't like the way they call RTP. 

IMO if the QB is behind the LOS, then they should get extra protection. Once they've past the LOS, they should be considered the same as any other player who is running with the ball. The "did he start his slide in time" is a judgement call that Refs & defensive players shouldn't have to make in real time.

[Waffler]

Item 3: hit to Whitehead. Yes it was late but hardly a big hit requiring a 25 yard assessment.

My problem with the penalties as called is that they evened out. One was a spear to the head and one was a harmless shove. I was sure Lucky got hurt on that one, glad to be wrong.

[Blue In BC]

Quite frankly, I don't like the way they call RTP.

IMO if the QB is behind the LOS, then they should get extra protection. Once they've past the LOS, they should be considered the same as any other player who is running with the ball. The "did he start his slide in time" is a judgement call that Refs & defensive players shouldn't have to make in real time.

That's complicated. QB's often do slide late. Sometimes feet first and sometime head first.

Some RTP are for a slight glanced hand to helmet and others late, very late and / or low.

The 25 yard penalties are usually an intentional fist to the head post play. Perhaps widening that to include blatant hits, like the below knee to a QB, even if pushed into the knees.

Problem is you can review 50 different RP penalties and they are all different. Late, very late, intentional like the Sayles hit at the end of the Elks blowing out the Ti Cats for example.

I'm a little surprised we haven't seen a few more disqualifications for RP. We only see that for two conduct penalties in a game. 

[DM83]

Football is a contact sport
In the real world when a QB scrambles and crosses the LOS, he is nit a QB, he is a runner. If he isn't sliding feet first he should be fair game.

Remember some boys like contact, it's legal to blast someone.
As an older greater than five years old, people that play football kind of like blasting the other guy.

Some of the roughing the passers calls are imaginary. Admit it!
Low shots and spearing to the body are legit.
Grazing the helmet as def lineman runs by is not roughing the passer.

Suck it up.

[jdrattops]

Would you have defined the Jones hit on the returner that caused a fumble, excessive? We applauded that hit since it went in our favour. If that was our returner would we be screaming for a penalty?

None of us want to see any player on any team injured. Sometimes is a big hit, sometimes it's a normal hit that causes an injury ( like Lawler earlier in the year ).

Item 2: Initial thought was close line. Not so sure until I re-watch. Violent yes but was where was the contact point?

Item 3: hit to Whitehead. Yes it was late but hardly a big hit requiring a 25 yard assessment.

Item 4: is a normal play in a violent sport. How big a hit does it take to prevent the reception? You can't expect the DB to let a receiver make the catch?

It's hard for fans to be totally bias. I'm in favour of rule changes that improve safety. It's a little like the issue with the CC. Where do you draw the line? Live play or slow motion reviews?

Item 2, see article 4, point G and I from the CFL rulebook.  Most definitely this was a penalty missed.

https://cfldb.ca/rulebook/fouls-and-penalties/major-fouls/

[dd]

anything involving contact to the head should be called, and if the on field officials miss it, command centre should be able to step in and call it.

I would introduce another rule, any player getting 2 head related UR penalties, automatically gets a 25 yd game ejection on his second foul. This will deter those who like to head hunt, to stop. Lower your target area, we'll give you one missed proper tackle/head shot, but the second one, you're gone. Piddly 15 yard penalties clearly isn't getting the job done on detering players from taking head shots. This would. Kick em out after their 2nd infraction in the game.

[TecnoGenius]

Item 2, see article 4, point G and I from the CFL rulebook.  Most definitely this was a penalty missed.

See Article 4 (i) illegal to... use a straight arm tackle above the shoulders.

The hit was on the shoulders/neck.  But it did touch the shoulders.  Therefore it is legal.  I think most of the clotheslines we've seen the last few seasons are uncalled because all of them touch the shoulders in some manner.

I would change the rule to read "a straight arm tackle that is not fully below the shoulders."

Almost every fan instinctively knows the clothesline we saw in that game was a clothesline and should be a penalty.  And most want it to be a penalty.  But as-written, it's not.  So let's make it one.  The end result is similar to a horsecollar and as such should be forbidden for player protection.

[TecnoGenius]

Football is a contact sport
In the real world when a QB scrambles and crosses the LOS, he is nit a QB, he is a runner. If he isn't sliding feet first he should be fair game.

As of a season or 3 ago this is no longer true.  Certain QB protections exist even across the LoS, like head protection.  I'm not totally sold on it yet (makes reffing it live nearly impossible), and it's not really fair to RBs who don't get head protection, but it's what we have to live with at the moment.

[TecnoGenius]

My problem with the penalties as called is that they evened out. One was a spear to the head and one was a harmless shove. I was sure Lucky got hurt on that one, glad to be wrong.

It wasn't even a real shove... It was more like "what do you think you're doing punk?".  Worse shoves occur every other play and are never called.  If you want to flag that, call it OC/USLC, not UR.

It was asinine that they evened out.

I 100% would have given that head-hunter on Lucky 25 and think long and hard about a DQ.  He wasn't late in the sense of the whistle (it was within the whistle) but in the sense that Lucky was clearly down and motionless for a ton of time, well before the clown left his feet.  You just don't do that!!

[dd]

See Article 4 (i) illegal to... use a straight arm tackle above the shoulders.

The hit was on the shoulders/neck.  But it did touch the shoulders.  Therefore it is legal.  I think most of the clotheslines we've seen the last few seasons are uncalled because all of them touch the shoulders in some manner.

I would change the rule to read "a straight arm tackle that is not fully below the shoulders."

Almost every fan instinctively knows the clothesline we saw in that game was a clothesline and should be a penalty.  And most want it to be a penalty.  But as-written, it's not.  So let's make it one.  The end result is similar to a horsecollar and as such should be forbidden for player protection.

Anytime a player is tackled by the head it's a foul. That was as blatant a clothesline as there ever has been, the straight arm hooked under the receivers chin and pulled him out of his cleats. It wasn't called because it was missed, but that tackle was totally illegal

[TecnoGenius]

2. Start calling excessive violence calls. I know we all love to see our team deliver crushing blows, but these are players lives.

People love the return hits, like the Ayers one, and the '19 Hansen one.  I'm not sure I want to lose that aspect of the game.  The leagues with wimpy "no movement" "no running in opposite directions" kickoffs are so lame it's just a stupid joke.  Might as well ban kickoffs and do away with the KR position.

Also, many contact injuries occur on non-heavy hits.  Take the Acklin injury.  That wasn't a big hit at all.  Just tackles/bangs his legs.  The problem there is Acklin was doing a 3' vertical at the time and got unlucky on the landing.  So you'll never eliminate that type of fluke injury unless you an jumping.

4. hits to the unprotected receivers back need to be defined in terms of legality. Ie there's a difference in tackling a receiver and trying to put him into next week (may be same as point 2)

The NFL has the defenseless R rules, right?  CFL could look at instituting those.  However, NFL allows way more hand-fighting to even it out.  If you ban defenseless R hits, then the Rs may have way too much of an advantage.

5. early hits to the back of dbs need to be called for pi even if it may not fall under the clear and obvious category. Its not only unfair to the receiver who has little chance to make reception but they aren't braced for it

That was my main point: because command will not not overturn 90% of non-DPIs, DBs can be much more aggressive.  It'll pay to basically hit early every time because unless a ref sees it live, and decides it's "enough" to flag, you'll get away with it.  Already starting to see this in games.  We should jump on board and coach our DBs to come in that half second earlier every play, especially on those from-behind-at-catch-time hits.

I've never been one of the "safety above all else" fans, that's for sure.  There has to be a balance.  However, something has changed in the CFL as in-game injuries seem to be skyrocketing?  We need to know why and then see if tweaks can help.  Going back to 2023 command guidelines would help IMHO.