Official Game Day Thread - Hamilton at Winnipeg August 23, 2024

[TecnoGenius]

Not using slo-mo pretty much defeats the purpose of Replay Review. How do you know, or think you know, this (the bolded)?

Because I took the only information we are privy to -- everything booth guys and MOS have leaked to us -- and then studied every single reviewed play in the last 3-ish weeks, as well as what they were doing earlier in the season.

I created a hypothesis as to what the new guidelines actually are (which I've spelled out on this forum many times).  I then tested every reviewed play against that hypothesis.  Every single review outcome was predicted by my hypothesis.  100%.  By the scientific method, my hypothesis is thus correct (or correct "enough"), until it is proven wrong by a future review that breaks it, or if command clearly says it's wrong (e.g. publicly state "we do still use slowmo/freeze for some/most/all reviews as the determining factor").

Even adding in this week's reviews, of which there were many, my hypothesis still stands and my prediction rate is still 100%.

On the flip side, those who disagree with my hypothesis are still left baffled and angry at some of the recent reviewed calls (not just this forum either).  Because they are still under the impression command works the same as last year, or has made minor tweaks.  In reality command has made an insane, major, fundamental change.

It's all fun & games and conjecture and banter for us fans here: but for the HCs (especially our own), understanding what command will do is critical to using challenges and timeouts wisely!!  Look at how many HCs are still getting shafted with "upholds" -- even our own in this week's game!

[TecnoGenius]

Props to Kenny for that last TD.  On rewatch he clearly got his leg/ankle hurt a couple of plays before on a shady tackle where the guy was doing the ol' Wynn ankle twist on the ground.  He was wincing but waved off his mates and brushed it off.

And he had whatever finger/hand thing he got early in the game.

It's been a terribly rough year for him, and it's nice to see his first 2024 TD be a game-changer.  I believe very few of our receivers could have caught that ball with such Zach zip.  And he had to do a jump-reverse thing too as it was (deliberately) thrown slightly behind him where the only hole was.

This may be the start of the Zach/Kenny mojo revival!

[markf]

If he's in man coverage and he thinks the FS can't get there in time, then it's NOT "forcing" it.  It's a 50/50 ball you think your 275000 guy can win more than 50% of the time.  That's the theory.  In '19 he would have been right.

The problem is it does look like "forcing it" because for whatever reason there's usually 2 defenders in the picture on every Kenny 50/50 ball.

might be trying to build confidence. Trying to do things that they are no longer able to do. That includes the forty yard passes, that the team keeps trying, that do not work very well anymore.

[Stats Junkie]

Strangely enough, I haven't seen #22 on field since (and I've been looking), so maybe the league dealt with his throwing that game for us?

Clearly not looking hard enough - he has had assignments (plural) since then.

[TecnoGenius]

Clearly not looking hard enough - he has had assignments (plural) since then.

I'm not surprised, I was just being hopeful.  Unless you're at the game reading the pregame ref roster on the jumbotron, it's generally hard to discern who the officials are just from the TSN broadcasts (ex the head ref).

I guess 22 just got a couple of demerits on his scorecard and that's that.  Who cares if 2 fake DPIs cost us the game, eh?

[blue_gold_84]

I guess all that matters is how ya finish.

[bomb squad]

Dave Naylor came out with the first TSN relay of the memo regarding adjusted criteria for Command Center reviews. That was Aug. 15 just before that weeks telecasts got underway. Key points as follows:
         1. "There will be a renewed emphasis on "clear and obvious"
         2. "On Pass Interference, ie "bang,bang" play, if they have to slow it down to "freeze-
             frame" to see PI, it means it's not clear and obvious. Other than that, no mention of
             the use or non-use of slo-motion.
The link is here: https://www.tsn.ca/video/the-league-is-taking-this-very-seriously-naylor-on-cfl-command-c~2977371

Then came that weeks telecasts and the distortion of the message. I'm just going by memory here. First it was Paul Lapolice. Said slow-motion was no longer going to be used in PI reviews. That was inaccurate. It was freeze-frame slow-motion. Big difference there. Then it was Duane Ford. I can't remember exactly what he said, but something to the effect of slow-motion no longer being used. His was just flat out incorrect.

I would be inclined to trust Dave Naylor's account simply because it makes much, much more sense. Having replay review and not using slow-motion simply defies common sense. 

         

[theaardvark]

Dave Naylor came out with the first TSN relay of the memo regarding adjusted criteria for Command Center reviews. That was Aug. 15 just before that weeks telecasts got underway. Key points as follows:
         1. "There will be a renewed emphasis on "clear and obvious"
         2. "On Pass Interference, ie "bang,bang" play, if they have to slow it down to "freeze-
             frame" to see PI, it means it's not clear and obvious. Other than that, no mention of
             the use or non-use of slo-motion.
The link is here: https://www.tsn.ca/video/the-league-is-taking-this-very-seriously-naylor-on-cfl-command-c~2977371

Then came that weeks telecasts and the distortion of the message. I'm just going by memory here. First it was Paul Lapolice. Said slow-motion was no longer going to be used in PI reviews. That was inaccurate. It was freeze-frame slow-motion. Big difference there. Then it was Duane Ford. I can't remember exactly what he said, but something to the effect of slow-motion no longer being used. His was just flat out incorrect.

I would be inclined to trust Dave Naylor's account simply because it makes much, much more sense. Having replay review and not using slow-motion simply defies common sense. 
   

Makes sense, but the Alexander pick was not a PI challenge, it was a complete catch challenge, and that should include super slow motion to assure possession.  Even full speed, though, there was no clear possession by the receiver at any time, and with regular slow motion it was a pick, clear and obvious.  The ruling on the field should have been overturned, and I hope tht the CFL comes out and declares the got that one wrong.  That mea culpa would then give the command centre the option to make proper calls and even call down on these as well.

Its easy for them to admit it, because in the final adjudication, it did not affect the outcome.

Reallt not expecting them to actually do the right thing, though.

[J5V]

How the onus can be on anything other than getting the call absolutely right regardless of what the official saw or thinks he saw in real time is mind numbing to me.

Look at MLB. Those officials can call a base runner safe or out to within a few thousands of a second and a few millimeters of the base runner's foot touching that bag and get it right 99% of the time with or without slow motion replay. It's amazing that they get it right as often as they do with such bang-bang precision.

Surely our officials can do a much better job of getting the calls right too. The goal of replay is not to embarrass an official but to make the right call. Egos be damned. For heaven's sake, just get the right call made by whatever means possible and reward the players for plays that are actually made and stop with these phantom non/calls, phantom non/catches, and phantom non/INTs just because the right call apparently couldn't be made in real time. I call BS.

[TecnoGenius]

Then came that weeks telecasts and the distortion of the message. I'm just going by memory here. First it was Paul Lapolice. Said slow-motion was no longer going to be used in PI reviews. That was inaccurate. It was freeze-frame slow-motion. Big difference there. Then it was Duane Ford. I can't remember exactly what he said, but something to the effect of slow-motion no longer being used. His was just flat out incorrect.

I would be inclined to trust Dave Naylor's account simply because it makes much, much more sense. Having replay review and not using slow-motion simply defies common sense. 

Except if they are still using slowmo/freeze on some/many types of reviews, then they have been botching a whack ton of calls!  Only if you take freezeframe/slowmo out of the final decision does then all of a sudden every single call they've made since a few weeks ago makes perfect sense.

So they may de jure imply they still use slowmo (either all or some times), but to my eye it seems they de facto are not.

So what do you want to believe: that command is more incompetent than ever (possible!), or that they are doing what I've been suggesting?

I do want to reiterate that I believe they are using slowmo and maybe even freeze-frame to find possible flaws with good angles, but then using that same angle at full speed to make the final decision.

So, for example, slowmo all of BA37's turnover to determine there could be something to that theory, but then playing those same angles only full speed to decide if it's "clear and obvious" in real time.  If you do that, then every call makes sense: BA37's INT, MTL QB's OOB-TD, basically every DPI upheld (and the 2-3 overturned), etc.

I'm telling you guys, if you still hold out hope that slowmo means anything to them, you'll be disappointed and angry every single week.  And MOS will continue to lose challenges.  I really want TSN to start showing the challenged plays in realtime more, without much in the way of slowmo.  Why show the slowmo to make the fans angry that they are then going to "botch" the call?

Did you notice the overturned DPIs they did this last week?  They were both so horrifically egregious that a blind vole could have seen them at triple speed.  Ya, that's the only calls you'll ever get overturned anymore in 2024.

[J5V]

One more time shall we? This will serve as momentum heading into the LDC.

The Game Winning Drive

[gobombersgo]

TORONTO — The Canadian Football League has announced that six players have been fined Week 12's games.

Saskatchewan defensive back DaMarcus Fields has been fined for delivering a high hit on Toronto wide receiver Makai Polk.

Winnipeg linebacker Tanner Cadwallader has been fined for delivering a blindside block on Hamilton long-snapper Gordon Whyte.

Winnipeg defensive back Brandon Alexander has been fined for delivering a high hit on Hamilton wide receiver Kiondré Smith.

Hamilton fullback James Tuck has been fined for making late unnecessary contact with Winnipeg wide receiver Lucky Whitehead.

BC defensive lineman Juliano Falaniko has been fined for clipping Ottawa fullback Anthony Gosselin.

Montreal defensive lineman Isaac Adeyemi-Berglund has been fined for delivering a high hit on Edmonton quarterback McLeod Bethel-Thompson.

https://www.cfl.ca/2024/08/30/six-players-fined-from-week-12-games/?utm_source=dlvr.it

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

TORONTO — The Canadian Football League has announced that six players have been fined Week 12's games.

Saskatchewan defensive back DaMarcus Fields has been fined for delivering a high hit on Toronto wide receiver Makai Polk.

Winnipeg linebacker Tanner Cadwallader has been fined for delivering a blindside block on Hamilton long-snapper Gordon Whyte.

Winnipeg defensive back Brandon Alexander has been fined for delivering a high hit on Hamilton wide receiver Kiondré Smith.

Hamilton fullback James Tuck has been fined for making late unnecessary contact with Winnipeg wide receiver Lucky Whitehead.

BC defensive lineman Juliano Falaniko has been fined for clipping Ottawa fullback Anthony Gosselin.

Montreal defensive lineman Isaac Adeyemi-Berglund has been fined for delivering a high hit on Edmonton quarterback McLeod Bethel-Thompson.

https://www.cfl.ca/2024/08/30/six-players-fined-from-week-12-games/?utm_source=dlvr.it

I expect these calls have been reviewed and approved by the CC to maintain the scales of justice!

[J5V]

I expect these calls have been reviewed and approved by the CC to maintain the scales of justice!

Which is why we're the only team to get fined twice.

[TecnoGenius]

Winnipeg linebacker Tanner Cadwallader has been fined for delivering a blindside block on Hamilton long-snapper Gordon Whyte.

Winnipeg defensive back Brandon Alexander has been fined for delivering a high hit on Hamilton wide receiver Kiondré Smith.

Wow, didn't notice anything amiss while watching live or on TV... anyone know when these occurred?  I like to keep up on what the league is getting in a wad about.

Hamilton fullback James Tuck has been fined for making late unnecessary contact with Winnipeg wide receiver Lucky Whitehead.

Good!  Hope it was the max!!  Always thought Tuck was a decent NAT... not anymore!

Hey, does anyone know if teams have to complain to the league to get some of these looked at, or does the league just comb all the footage to spot the egregious?