Should command go back to the 2021-2023 standard?

[TecnoGenius]

The reviews tonight vs HAM further 100% proved my theory that freeze-frame is not going to enter into the equation under these new guidelines.  At the game I called the results of all the reviews with 100% accuracy, without even having my computer PVR (obviously).

Booth guys are still surprised when they shouldn't be.

Last season that BA37 INT would have been overturned as an INT.  Right now: nope.  MOS needs to read what I am writing because clearly most HCs don't understand what command is doing.  Either that or he just wanted to take a stab at it because there was only 5 mins left (although there was a possible DPI later we might have had a better case for).

Same with the uncalled DPI HAM challenged.  Never going to be overturned now.  Only 1 DPI has been overturned on challenge since the new guidelines, and that one was so blatant to the whole world in realtime that it had to be overturned.

You simply are not, in 90%+ of cases, going to get command to overrule the on-field refs.  On-field refs are like demi-gods now, wielding great power, instead of the peons they were previously.

P.S. The challenged non-DPI near the end was not DPI (because he released the jersey with 1-3 secs to spare) but may have been OPI because of the full-extended-arm push-off.  2023 command likely keeps it non-DPI but may have tacked on OPI... though the OPI was a bit weak, with bad angles.

[DCM]

going to get command to overrule the on-field refs

That's the problem.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

I think we should start a second command centre to review the calls of the first one.

[theaardvark]

Not sure "clear and obvious" is the level of detection in the case of a challenge.

"Clear and Obvious" is what the EITS should be calling down without a challenge.

When there is a challenge, you need more depth.  The Alexander INT not only was a blown call on the field, its an illogical call from Command Centre.  The reception cannot stand.  Its either an INT or incomplete after review.  Because the one thing definite in the play is that the receiver did not catch the ball.

Bang Bang plays, sure, we don't need super slow mo to decide PI.  Let those rulings stand.

But where possession is concerned, super slow mo shows who has the ball and when.  And THAT is the key.

[TecnoGenius]

I think we should start a second command centre to review the calls of the first one.

Brilliant!  I like it.

Or maybe give ever STH across the league a little box where they can vote on a challenge.  Refs/command can put the salient bullet points and camera angles up on TSN for 1 min, then everyone votes.  If 80% of the STH fan base agrees on something, that's the result!

Maybe to be fair when it's large-fanbase (SSK) vs small-fanbase (TOR) the STH of the 2 playing teams are excluded.

If 80% don't agree, then command does their normal thing, and command decides.

Half the not-DPIs that were flagged would have been overturned if it was the fans deciding, because there was such a fan consensus.  The MTL OOB problem likely would be overturned (again, with sufficient camera views).

The BA37 thing... probably would only garner 50% support as it was pretty complex and ambiguous (though I think its a TO).

[TecnoGenius]

When there is a challenge, you need more depth.  The Alexander INT not only was a blown call on the field, its an illogical call from Command Centre.  The reception cannot stand.  Its either an INT or incomplete after review.  Because the one thing definite in the play is that the receiver did not catch the ball.

I fully agree and was just talking about this with another fan in person today!  Normal reviews can be realtime-only, great.  But the challenge should be like a golden ticket to a deeper dive.  A challenge should buy you 2023-level review, where freezeframe and slowmo are taken into account.  They should get it "right", not "good enough and fast".

This shouldn't be a "guideline", it should be explicitly stated by the CFL: Challenges are special.  It would make a lot of fans (and HCs) a lot happier.  I won't hold my breath.

But where possession is concerned, super slow mo shows who has the ball and when.  And THAT is the key.

There have been other turnovers and scores where they clearly didn't take slowmo/freeze into account at all.  I've been arguing with the Riderfans about this for a couple of weeks.  It seems clear command is doing what I posit.  I see no indication there is anything other than realtime being taken into account anymore.

[TecnoGenius]

Look at the early OTT TD in the game tonight vs BC.  On the 2PAT there is pretty clear DPI by 2023 standards.  Dyce is dying to throw that challenge... BUT Dyce just proved he is the first HC to understand the new guidelines are as I say: realtime or it didn't happen.  So he held his flag.

Even with the new standards maybe that one gets overturned because it was pretty early and blocking the arms and grabbing/twisting the jersey.  I'd say 75% they uphold it if he had challenged.  Dyce was smart to not challenge.

[TecnoGenius]

I'm noticing that DBs (at least the smart ones) are getting more aggressive and coming in for earlier contact.  That's because almost no un-called DPIs will be overturned upon challenge.  So they can "cheat" just like they can when a HC has lost their challenge already.

If the refs don't catch the early contact (or other issues) in live-time, they'll get away with it 95%+ of the time.

We need to be coaching our DBs up on this, if we haven't already.

This is probably an unexpected byproduct, because this ruins the "more O" mandate of the CFL.  It's going to give us more D, and less points.  That's the last thing Ambrosie wants.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I'm noticing that DBs (at least the smart ones) are getting more aggressive and coming in for earlier contact.  That's because almost no un-called DPIs will be overturned upon challenge.  So they can "cheat" just like they can when a HC has lost their challenge already.

If the refs don't catch the early contact (or other issues) in live-time, they'll get away with it 95%+ of the time.

We need to be coaching our DBs up on this, if we haven't already.

This is probably an unexpected byproduct, because this ruins the "more O" mandate of the CFL.  It's going to give us more D, and less points.  That's the last thing Ambrosie wants.

They really need to sort this out going forward, they are affecting the outcomes of games by taking away a coach's challenge ability later in the game plus a timeout.  It's especially bad when everyone can see that the coach was right and the onfield official made the wrong call on the play.  With the technology available the mandate has to go back to getting the call right, regardless of what the on-field official saw or missed.

[theaardvark]

Look at the early OTT TD in the game tonight vs BC.  On the 2PAT there is pretty clear DPI by 2023 standards.  Dyce is dying to throw that challenge... BUT Dyce just proved he is the first HC to understand the new guidelines are as I say: realtime or it didn't happen.  So he held his flag.

Even with the new standards maybe that one gets overturned because it was pretty early and blocking the arms and grabbing/twisting the jersey.  I'd say 75% they uphold it if he had challenged.  Dyce was smart to not challenge.

Isn't EITS supposed to call down with things like that?

There are only so many on field officials, and they can't be looking at every Rec to make sure they aren't interfered with.  EITS has multiple cameras, assuming at least one per potential target.  If they see an egregious infraction, they are supposed to call it down, right?

[TecnoGenius]

They really need to sort this out going forward, they are affecting the outcomes of games by taking away a coach's challenge ability later in the game plus a timeout.  It's especially bad when everyone can see that the coach was right and the onfield official made the wrong call on the play.  With the technology available the mandate has to go back to getting the call right, regardless of what the on-field official saw or missed.

I am in full 100% agreement with you.  Answer YES in this poll!  That was what we were moving towards until the radical departure in command guidelines this season.  Now the on-field ref reigns (nearly) supreme.

It's weird (or maybe not!), but this forum seems to be understanding the "new command" a lot better than Riderfans.  There are so many fans there ignorant of all the command changes and clearly think it is still 2023, and they are really angry about it.  It makes every game look "rigged" to them, when it all is explained away by my hypothesis.  And this after I tried to explain it there too...

[TecnoGenius]

Isn't EITS supposed to call down with things like that?

There are only so many on field officials, and they can't be looking at every Rec to make sure they aren't interfered with.  EITS has multiple cameras, assuming at least one per potential target.  If they see an egregious infraction, they are supposed to call it down, right?

But EITS (who is really just a guy in a seat at command) would not and will not initiate a review of something they know will not be overturned with the new guidelines!

In fact, not only would it have to be something that will over overturned, but it will have to be even more egregious because auto-reviews are supposed to be for dire misses only!

EITS now seems to me to be used more for URs and OCs, and maybe last-3-min stuff.  And for helping refs when they have no clue what happened (like was it OS or IP?).  The new changes basically neuter EITS for most of the game... a clear and obvious goal after The Neverending SSK/OTT game where EITS stepped in like 842 times as fans mobbed the field..