Do the Bombers Have a "Championship Calibre Defense"?

Started by J5V, August 03, 2024, 03:17:43 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

J5V

During the BC game Glen Suitor stated that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers have a "Championship Calibre Defense".

Notable was the fact they held BC to zero points for the game. Also notable was that they held BC to only four first downs. Even more remarkable was that BC's #1 ranked offense never got past the Bomber forty-one yard line.

This was definitely an impressive performance by the Winnipeg Blue Bomber defense and it should be mentioned that their performance against the Argos was also very impressive although we didn't come away with a "W" in that one.

They have also only allowed one touchdown against in their last three games.

Do we have a "Championship Calibre Defense" or is the sample size too small at this point in the season to be stating so?
Go Bombers!

55StickCar

#1
Quote from: J5V on August 03, 2024, 03:17:43 AMDuring the BC game Glen Suitor stated that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers have a "Championship Calibre Defense".

Notable was the fact they held BC to zero points for the game. Also notable was that they held BC to only four first downs. Even more remarkable was that BC's #1 ranked offense never got past the Bomber forty-one yard line.

This was definitely an impressive performance by the Winnipeg Blue Bomber defense and it should be mentioned that their performance against the Argos was also very impressive although we didn't come away with a "W" in that one.

They have also only allowed one touchdown against in their last three games.

Do we have a "Championship Calibre Defense" or is the sample size too small at this point in the season to be stating so?
Hopefully you are right. The next few games are crucial as we are still only 3-6. Cross over probably not going to happen (on either side) so a ton depends on us winning and Calgary losing. At this point we should be looking at third and doing a 2019 Run.

DM83

I game doesn't make a season but if they continue to play like Thursday, you betcha!

Jesse

Defence is as good as it's always been. It's our offence that's been losing us games. If Zach and co can get themselves sorted, we're right where we've always been.
My wife is amazing!

dd

We have a very good secondary with holm and ford having super fast closing speed, Nichols too, so lots of knock downs. Linebackers are decent, tony jones has done well for injured Wilson and kramdi has come into his own at SAM.

Biggest surprise is D line, with Garbutt and Adams showing well in recent games.

The display against the lions as impressive and if continued, yes, we have a championship defense. What I think we saw was a group of players knowing full well they HAD to win this game for a number of reasons, and they not only one it, it kicked the first place team in the nads and made a mockery of them.

The bombers are for real and the real season is about to begin as they make a run for a playoff spot, which they will get as they are hungry.

Blueforlife

#1d is back baby
Good team depth
New faces making an impact
Younger found his game

All rooted in MOS team culture and Hall's brilliance

We are a good team with a bad record


J5V

We need the Argos to lay a beatdown on the Stamps on Sunday.

Is there any chance the Elks, with Tre Ford, can beat the Riders in Regina Saturday?
Go Bombers!

dd

I think ford can beat the riders, but the rest of his team needs to play error free football and not gift the riders easy points. Mosaic is a tough place to play, but ford can get it done for the elks, they need a win to turn things around

ichabod_crane

Quote from: J5V on August 03, 2024, 03:17:43 AMDuring the BC game Glen Suitor stated that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers have a "Championship Calibre Defense".

Notable was the fact they held BC to zero points for the game. Also notable was that they held BC to only four first downs. Even more remarkable was that BC's #1 ranked offense never got past the Bomber forty-one yard line.

This was definitely an impressive performance by the Winnipeg Blue Bomber defense and it should be mentioned that their performance against the Argos was also very impressive although we didn't come away with a "W" in that one.

They have also only allowed one touchdown against in their last three games.

Do we have a "Championship Calibre Defense" or is the sample size too small at this point in the season to be stating so?


SHADES OF 1988 come to mind....DEFENCE won that GC. Offence just along for the ride. A PRIME MATT DUNIGAN shutdown in crunch time. MIKE GRAY WITH THE PICK AT THE GOALINE....a gift come down from heaven for the big DE!! :D ;)

Blue In BC

Ask again after the next 4 games. Lions, TiCats, Riders and Riders. That's our season in a nutshell.

At the moment we're the # 1 for least points allowed on average per game. Down to just under 21 points per game. The Als are just over 21 per game.
Take no prisoners

TBURGESS

We had one against BC for sure. Blue In BC's right. The next 4 games are our season. A championship caliber defence should keep us in all of them.  
Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.

Blueforlife

The pillar of our success, our defense.  Hats off to Hall and company.  This run on D will go down as the best in Bomber history.  Props to those that never gave up support of this club.  Long way to go but I'm proud of these boys!

LETS GO BOMBERS

bomb squad

#12
Quote from: Blueforlife on August 03, 2024, 05:24:21 PMThe pillar of our success, our defense.  Hats off to Hall and company.  This run on D will go down as the best in Bomber history.  Props to those that never gave up support of this club.  Long way to go but I'm proud of these boys!

LETS GO BOMBERS
Over 31,500 at the game is a pretty good indication not many people have. You may be confusing criticism or expressions of frustration with lack of support.

Blue In BC

#13
Quote from: Blueforlife on August 03, 2024, 05:24:21 PMThe pillar of our success, our defense.  Hats off to Hall and company.  This run on D will go down as the best in Bomber history.  Props to those that never gave up support of this club.  Long way to go but I'm proud of these boys!

LETS GO BOMBERS

Statistically not probable. Defence in 2023 only gave up 377 points ( 21 average per game ) which is about the same as at the moment. However, that was over 18 games and we may have have been close to the top in forcing turnovers.

Bombers have had many years with top defences in the past.

Defence is playing well but it's not even certain they are better than the Riders or Als.

I'd agree that the performance against the Lions was close to the best performance of any team so far this season.

In 1962 Bombers gave up 291 points in the 16 game season. That was a good one.
Take no prisoners



Pigskin

Hats off to Coach Younger who has rebuilt this D. Losing players like Houston, Jeffcoat in the off season. Losing starters like Parker, Wilson, Haba, Fox, and Lawson to injury. Starting a number of 1st. year players. For a 1st. year D coordinator he has done a very good job. 
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

Blueforlife

#17
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2024, 06:17:29 PMStatistically not probable. Defence in 2023 only gave up 377 points ( 21 average per game ) which is about the same as at the moment. However, that was over 18 games and we may have have been close to the top in forcing turnovers.

Bombers have had many years with top defences in the past.

Defence is playing well but it's not even certain they are better than the Riders or Als.

I'd agree that the performance against the Lions was close to the best performance of any team so far this season.

In 1962 Bombers gave up 291 points in the 16 game season. That was a good one.
I didn't mean one year I meant the last number of years under Hall

Quote from: bomb squad on August 03, 2024, 05:45:46 PMOver 31,500 at the game is a pretty good indication not many people have. You may be confusing criticism or expressions of frustration with lack of support.
Nope what I meant was the the support of this club was wavering on here by some.  Props to those that stuck with the club.  Support on terms of ticket sales was never in doubt, but at least one person suggested early on attendance would tumble.  I don't think they are here anymore lol.

Blue In BC

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 03, 2024, 08:20:06 PMI didn't mean one year I meant the last number of years under Hall
Nope what I meant was the the support of this club was wavering on here by some.  Props to those that stuck with the club.  Support on terms of ticket sales was never in doubt, but at least one person suggested early on attendance would tumble.  I don't think they are here anymore lol.

Bombers were in 6 Grey Cups from 1957 to 1965 winning 4. The Bombers have had a good team since Collaros joined in 2019 and have won 2 and lost 2 Grey Cups. Two losses were close. 1965 game was weird because of the wind.

Very difficult to assess the best in comparing different eras. Also the question of whether we're comparing an extended time frame or a single season.

Yes, there were some posters abandoning ship and suggesting we'd loss by 30 points. Overly negative or overly positive are not rational and biased / speculative thoughts.
Take no prisoners

Blueforlife

#19
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2024, 09:00:11 PMBombers were in 6 Grey Cups from 1957 to 1965 winning 4. The Bombers have had a good team since Collaros joined in 2019 and have won 2 and lost 2 Grey Cups. Two losses were close. 1965 game was weird because of the wind.

Very difficult to assess the best in comparing different eras. Also the question of whether we're comparing an extended time frame or a single season.

Yes, there were some posters abandoning ship and suggesting we'd loss by 30 points. Overly negative or overly positive are not rational and biased / speculative thoughts.
I believe the current Bombers defense over our mini dynasty will go down as one of the best ever.  No speculation, just my opinion.  Let's see how the season turns out but I see a special group of athletes that are exceptionally coached.

That does sound like an exceptional run.  Before my era, I can't comment on those teams of defense.

Blue In BC

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 03, 2024, 10:00:12 PMI believe the current Bombers defense over our mini dynasty will go down as one of the best ever.  No speculation, just my opinion.  Let's see how the season turns out but I see a special group of athletes that are exceptionally coached.

That does sound like an exceptional run.  Before my era, I can't comment on those teams of defense.

Fair enough. 2019 - 2024 is an extended period of time. Not many teams, HC's etc last that long in one place.
Take no prisoners

J5V

It has been suggested that the BC offense is one-dimensional and has no plan B. That might explain our defensive dominance for four quarters in that game. The real test is going to come against a team that is not one-dimensional and makes adjustments on the fly and at the half. Here's to hoping we have the flexibility to also be multi-dimensional.
Go Bombers!

Blue In BC

Quote from: J5V on August 03, 2024, 10:23:05 PMIt has been suggested that the BC offense is one-dimensional and has no plan B. That might explain our defensive dominance for four quarters in that game. The real test is going to come against a team that is not one-dimensional and makes adjustments on the fly and at the half. Here's to hoping we have the flexibility to also be multi-dimensional.

While that's true we've only given up 186 points in 9 games. That's the lowest average points against in the CFL at the moment.

Combine that with our offensive troubles, low TOP and turnovers, that shows the defence is not giving up points easily.

If / when our offence starts winning TOP and field position, things don't look that bad.

Well we're still in a deep hole in the standings, but there is still a chance.



Take no prisoners

Blueforlife

#23
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 04, 2024, 01:54:18 PMWhile that's true we've only given up 186 points in 9 games. That's the lowest average points against in the CFL at the moment.

Combine that with our offensive troubles, low TOP and turnovers, that shows the defence is not giving up points easily.

If / when our offence starts winning TOP and field position, things don't look that bad.

Well we're still in a deep hole in the standings, but there is still a chance.




Need to win 2/3 (min) vs BC Sask x2 and I think things will be ok in Bomberland if that happens

I think we can take the Ticats but if good Bo shows it will be a tough game

theaardvark

Still have Cole, Haba, Wilson, Fox, Lawson and Parker on the IR...  almost half our projected starting D to start the season.

So, yeah, championship quality D.  Shutting out BC when they got Hatcher and Couture back...  Almost 42 min TOP not because the O held ontp the ball so much, but because the D sent their O off the field 2 and out almost every series.

So yeah, championship D, and we all know, D wins playoff games.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Tiger

So we are not Firing Younger this week?

 ;D

D is good and is steadily getting better.  As noted above Garbut and Adams have been pleasant surprises.  Overall the youngsters are doing well. Holmes and Ford seem to be going into their own.  Sadly Biggie and BA are getting older and less effective but Walters and the boys seem to be getting new players to keep the machine rolling.


Good job.  That said offence and punting have had their problems. The silver lining is we found Ontaria Wilson and this new O lineman from Bama.

Fingers crossed.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
Bo Jackson

We are inclined to think that if we watch a football game or a baseball game, we have taken part in it
John Fitzgerald Kennedy

BC Sucks
Tiger

ichabod_crane

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 03, 2024, 06:17:29 PMStatistically not probable. Defence in 2023 only gave up 377 points ( 21 average per game ) which is about the same as at the moment. However, that was over 18 games and we may have have been close to the top in forcing turnovers.

Bombers have had many years with top defences in the past.

Defence is playing well but it's not even certain they are better than the Riders or Als.

I'd agree that the performance against the Lions was close to the best performance of any team so far this season.

In 1962 Bombers gave up 291 points in the 16 game season. That was a good one.

A Tyrone Jones clone would be a good asset to up the sack totals right now!! :) TYRONE...YOU DA MAN! ;)

bustamente

Younger on a learning curve as a first year DC is figuring it out, Garbutt helps, Jones is better than Wilson and Holm has played better. Less Thomas last game really helped.

Pete

Ive really liked the play of woods as well, he and adam make a big difference in the middle. Then with the experience of Thomas, being used as a rotational guy its a good trio

bwiser

I think the addition of Bonds Terrell Bonds has helped the secondary. Losing Houston and losing Parker to injury  has not hurt at all.

Throw Long Bannatyne

Quote from: bwiser on August 05, 2024, 11:13:09 PMI think the addition of Bonds Terrell Bonds has helped the secondary. Losing Houston and losing Parker to injury  has not hurt at all.

I'm thinking we see more late season transition like last season, can't be sure those coming off the 6 game are going to get their old jobs back.

TecnoGenius

Quote from: bustamente on August 05, 2024, 01:53:12 PMYounger on a learning curve as a first year DC is figuring it out, Garbutt helps, Jones is better than Wilson and Holm has played better. Less Thomas last game really helped.

Jones is doing great in replacement... but I wouldn't go that far!  Wilson is often our top 1 or 2 tackler.  He's a run-stop demon, and can keep up with the mobile QBs.  If we can find a way to keep both, that'd be great.  Wilson may not last much beyond '25, and for once it'd be nice to have the replacement in-house.  (Or is Jones just as old as Wilson??)
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 06, 2024, 02:23:40 AMI'm thinking we see more late season transition like last season, can't be sure those coming off the 6 game are going to get their old jobs back.

We've always been extremely flexible and quick to stick with hot-hand DBs.  Way more than any other unit.  No starting spot is guaranteed in that corps.  However, I doubt we outright release any starting-caliber guy.  Vet cutdown day has passed or is passing as we speak.

It's a great problem to have.  Who we keep long term can sort itself out in FA.
Never go full Rider!

TecnoGenius

The BC game (and a bit less so the TOR game) showed that Younger/Hall can out-think and out-plan great O's.  What they were doing was astounding.  I think our D has kept us in all but maybe 1-2 games.  It's been the O letting us down for most of the L's.

If you want a summary of what the D was doing vs BC, rewatch the Lu/Campbell interview right after halftime.  He wasn't lying.

"They got our offence out of sorts.  We're in there working hard trying to have some answers for our players."

Total shellshock and no answers.

I think what our D did to BC was do nothing that we did in previous weeks.  I really love stuff like this.  We never jump routes, so what did we do vs BC?  We jumped routes.  We always play 5Y off.  So what did we do?  We played tight.  Our DL wasn't getting pressure on anyone and we often tried useless blitzes.  So this time we brought pressure with 4.  We never spy QBs, MOS says outright we don't need to.  So what did we do?  We had Biggie spy on every other down.

BC is lucky they got this whooping now rather than a WDF in a few months.  Maybe they'll find a counter.  Or maybe we'll morph again by then and fool them once more...

All I know is Younger (and Hall whispering up in the booth) has taken a much weakened (FA, injuries), and ageing, D that should be bottom-tier, and turned them into one of the league best.  Now that is worth celebrating.
Never go full Rider!

The Zipp

Quote from: bwiser on August 05, 2024, 11:13:09 PMI think the addition of Bonds Terrell Bonds has helped the secondary. Losing Houston and losing Parker to injury  has not hurt at all.

so true..Ford, Bonds, Holm and Nichols - quality 4 young guys.  Alexander is the weak spot and he is serviceable and has some great experience but father time is tapping him on the shoulder.

J5V

Quote from: The Zipp on August 06, 2024, 03:30:44 PMso true..Ford, Bonds, Holm and Nichols - quality 4 young guys.  Alexander is the weak spot and he is serviceable and has some great experience but father time is tapping him on the shoulder.
Two key positions, MLB and Safety, need upgrades. Is Grady Cavness or Mickey Doyle available? :-)
Go Bombers!

Throw Long Bannatyne

#36
Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 06, 2024, 06:13:54 AMJones is doing great in replacement... but I wouldn't go that far!  Wilson is often our top 1 or 2 tackler.  He's a run-stop demon, and can keep up with the mobile QBs.  If we can find a way to keep both, that'd be great.  Wilson may not last much beyond '25, and for once it'd be nice to have the replacement in-house.  (Or is Jones just as old as Wilson??)


I feel bad for Kyrie, everytime he approaches his greatness injuries wipe him out, next season they might have to consider him in a secondary role if they can afford to keep him around, would hate to see him finish out his career anywhere else.

Blueforlife

#37
Wilson and Parker will get their jobs back imo.  A luxury of depth.  The negativity on Alexander is overstated imo.  He helped keep BC off the score board.  Older yes, but still a key vet and piece of our evolving puzzle.  Next year is just a guess.  See how this year plays out 1st.

Blue In BC

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 06, 2024, 07:41:14 PMWilson and Parker will get their jobs back imo.  A luxury of depth.  The negativity on Alexander is overstated imo.  He helped keep BC off the score board.  Older yes, but still a key vet and piece of our evolving puzzle.  Next year is just a guess.  See how this year plays out 1st.

Not sure if either Wilson will be healthy in 2024 due to current injury. IIRC, reports are that Parker was finished for the year. Not quite as sure about Wilson.

Wilson, Parker and Jones are all on the end of their current contract. SMS, injury history and free agency will play into this going into 2025.

Alexander is also in his final contract year.

Nichols, Holm and Ford are also potential free agents.

So who knows what 2025 brings.
Take no prisoners

J5V

Quote from: Blueforlife on August 06, 2024, 07:41:14 PMWilson and Parker will get their jobs back imo.  A luxury of depth.  The negativity on Alexander is overstated imo.  He helped keep BC off the score board.  Older yes, but still a key vet and piece of our evolving puzzle.  Next year is just a guess.  See how this year plays out 1st.
Agree. Like BLM, Alexander is not what he once was but is getting by on experience and smarts. Same goes for Biggie and many of our vets. A lot of this game is between the ears and that is one of the things this team looks for when we bring in players. It's not always about the youngest, most talented guy.
Go Bombers!

Pigskin

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 06, 2024, 08:13:13 PMNot sure if either Wilson will be healthy in 2024 due to current injury. IIRC, reports are that Parker was finished for the year. Not quite as sure about Wilson.

Wilson, Parker and Jones are all on the end of their current contract. SMS, injury history and free agency will play into this going into 2025.

Alexander is also in his final contract year.



Nichols, Holm and Ford are also potential free agents.

So who knows what 2025 brings.

In December 2023 Nichols signed a 2 year extension. So, he is signed for next season.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

stevieb751

Absolutely looking that way, I thought it was trending that way the previous two games but wanted to wait until we played a starting QB and especially a dangerous O like BC.  Not only did they prove it but to me served notice to the rest of the league.  We really should have won 4 of our last 5 as the Argo game was total domination minus the ridiculous turnovers.  Beat BC again after the bye and teams start to fear us again.

Blue In BC

Quote from: Pigskin on August 06, 2024, 10:44:04 PMIn December 2023 Nichols signed a 2 year extension. So, he is signed for next season.

Perfect, I missed that. We'll probably get the other two re-signed but there are always offsets on the roster to make it fit the SMS.
Take no prisoners

Jesse

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on August 06, 2024, 07:18:44 PMI feel bad for Kyrie, everytime he approaches his greatness injuries wipe him out, next season they might have to consider him in a secondary role if they can afford to keep him around, would hate to see him finish out his career anywhere else.

I would have liked to see what his career would have looked like without all the injuries. As it stands, I wouldn't really blink an eye if they allowed him to move on or at least have to compete for his spot.
My wife is amazing!

TecnoGenius

Quote from: Jesse on August 07, 2024, 01:51:32 AMI would have liked to see what his career would have looked like without all the injuries.

WILL is always getting injured.  Remember Ian Wild?  A not-so-big guy usually, trying to stop a beefy downhill runner every third play = injuries.  I think Wilson is even smaller than Wild.  Amazing he gets injured as little as he does.
Never go full Rider!

J5V

Quote from: TecnoGenius on August 07, 2024, 03:33:34 AMWILL is always getting injured.  Remember Ian Wild?  A not-so-big guy usually, trying to stop a beefy downhill runner every third play = injuries.  I think Wilson is even smaller than Wild.  Amazing he gets injured as little as he does.
I will never forget that hit Ian Wild made on the Calgary receiver, Price, on a snowy night in Calgary.

Ian Wild on Price
Go Bombers!

bwiser

Quote from: The Zipp on August 06, 2024, 03:30:44 PMso true..Ford, Bonds, Holm and Nichols - quality 4 young guys.  Alexander is the weak spot and he is serviceable and has some great experience but father time is tapping him on the shoulder.
I like Alexander but I wouldn't mind seeing what Cole could do back there. Cole has decent speed and hits a ton.

Blue In BC

Quote from: bwiser on August 07, 2024, 02:52:04 PMI like Alexander but I wouldn't mind seeing what Cole could do back there. Cole has decent speed and hits a ton.

Cole is on the 6 game IR at the moment. He may be back at some point but when is a TBD.
Take no prisoners

Throw Long Bannatyne

#48
Quote from: bwiser on August 07, 2024, 02:52:04 PMI like Alexander but I wouldn't mind seeing what Cole could do back there. Cole has decent speed and hits a ton.

From early on this season I get the impression Cole has lost ground to others and may never be granted a starting position. He certainly isn't going to replace Kramdi anytime soon.

The Zipp

Quote from: bwiser on August 07, 2024, 02:52:04 PMI like Alexander but I wouldn't mind seeing what Cole could do back there. Cole has decent speed and hits a ton.

I don't know if Cole is fast enough...who knows what will happen with injuries etc in the secondary but I really like the guys we have. Speed and athleticism are excellent right now with that bunch.

Blue In BC

After 9 games, the Bombers have now given up the least points on defence. They've moved past the Als with the fewest points after the game last night.

It also appears we'll have scored the least amount of points after 9 games. Need to improve on that by a bunch.

Defence might win championships, but not if you can't score.
Take no prisoners

Jesse

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 11, 2024, 01:15:14 PMAfter 9 games, the Bombers have now given up the least points on defence. They've moved past the Als with the fewest points after the game last night.

It also appears we'll have scored the least amount of points after 9 games. Need to improve on that by a bunch.

Defence might win championships, but not if you can't score.

Definitely still need to work on converting a few of these FGs into TDs.
My wife is amazing!

theaardvark

Quote from: Jesse on August 11, 2024, 10:56:20 PMDefinitely still need to work on converting a few of these FGs into TDs.

Pretty sure that's on the offence... we're talkin defence here...
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.