DL Solutions

[Jesse]

Once we signed schoen id seriously would have considered releasing or trading Lawler. 285k would go a long way to signing a de or tackle.
We've spent more money on each of the offensive groups. Qb. Receivers and running back than any other team in the league.
On the positive it should make for exciting games

On the flip side, when you find elite talent, you want to try to keep them while trusting your scouting staff to find more elite talent to fill in the gaps. Let's bring in our own DE or Tackle instead of overpaying for someone else's scraps in FA.

[dd]

Our scouts BETTER find us a DE and or DT or we re done on defense. Teams will double Jefferson and our push rush we relied on for so many years will fade to black and so will we

[dd]

while this thread is concerned about oline solutions, a bigger problem is our dline, weve gone from the best in the league a few years ago to the potentially the second worst (next to elks)

Agree 100%. The loss of Jeffcoat and no stud interior lineman spell trouble for us in 2024

[TecnoGenius]

while this thread is concerned about oline solutions, a bigger problem is our dline, weve gone from the best in the league a few years ago to the potentially the second worst (next to elks)

Make a new thread: that topic is totally worth its own.  Tons to discuss there.  The difference is we're used to having the #1-#3 OL, and used to having the #4-#6 DL (for 2 seasons now).  So as long as we can keep it around there, it'll be status quo.

[ModAdmin]

DL Discussion and views can be made here.

[TecnoGenius]

Thanks mods.

To continue: while I too worry about the DL, it's been several years of worrying about the DL.  The "monster IMP DT" (whoever it may be each season) has been getting steadily, though slightly, weaker each season.  Nevis was the peak IMHO.  The other guys have been fine, but always a slight downgrade.

But each year it's looked pretty catastrophic yet each year the next man up does better than I (we?) anticipated.  Not as good as the last guy, but still pretty darn good.

Take Walker.  He wasn't Sayles, but he was at least 80%.  Better than the 50% I would have guessed pre-season.  (The proof he's not Sayles is that he hasn't been snapped up in FA as all of our other lead DTs were previously.)

But Sayles was maybe 75% Stove.  Stove was 85% Nevis.  Do the math and we're down to like 50% of Nevis with Walker.  Maybe even less if the next guy is only 80% of Walker.  (Or maybe we can retain Walker if no one else bites in FA.)

So let's ask ourselves how we got Nevis & Stove?  Were they FA superstars before coming here, or scraps, or ELC IMPs we scouted?  Whatever it was, how do we repeat that so we can get back to Nevis/Stove levels?

If Walker walks (hehe), then our next man up is Fox, right?  Has he looked like the next Nevis, or an 80% Walker?

I'd rather we find the next 100% Nevis, assuming doing so doesn't mean huge $$.  DTs are a weird position, as there doesn't seem to be a surplus league-wide.  It's a mostly-IMP position, so this strikes me as odd (like LT/RT).  But that seems to be the way it is.

To me the big skill I want in a DT is block-shed run-stop, and a keen eye / IQ for getting in the right hole.  I'm less concerned about pocket push on passes.  In the past our D was league-renowned for its run stop.  I'd like to get back to that.  It may make Willie less effective if we're a runstop-first DL, but Willie might be neutered by a weaker fellow DE this season anyhow.

In 2023 our run-stop was so-so, and our pass rush was so-so.  If we can at least improve our run stop, we should have a better D, and maybe be able to stop those lame QB scrambles and TD RB runs that we seem to give up every recent GC.  That should be enough to let our O propel us over the top and get that pesky cup back.

[Lincoln Locomotive]

Too bad about JJ...we had the best pair of DE bookends and JJ brought it every game....he won't be easy to replace.    In his interview with Coach Phil on YouTube he mentioned that he wasn't keen on how Walters managed the situation....he didn't really slam him but you could tell he felt under appreciated.....a bit similar to AH debacle.  I kind of agreed with him

https://youtu.be/FE7pz5XhOw0?si=B_yTUbsuCSyB5SlV

[Jesse]

Thanks mods.

To continue: while I too worry about the DL, it's been several years of worrying about the DL.  The "monster IMP DT" (whoever it may be each season) has been getting steadily, though slightly, weaker each season.  Nevis was the peak IMHO.  The other guys have been fine, but always a slight downgrade.

But each year it's looked pretty catastrophic yet each year the next man up does better than I (we?) anticipated.  Not as good as the last guy, but still pretty darn good.

Take Walker.  He wasn't Sayles, but he was at least 80%.  Better than the 50% I would have guessed pre-season.  (The proof he's not Sayles is that he hasn't been snapped up in FA as all of our other lead DTs were previously.)

But Sayles was maybe 75% Stove.  Stove was 85% Nevis.  Do the math and we're down to like 50% of Nevis with Walker.  Maybe even less if the next guy is only 80% of Walker.  (Or maybe we can retain Walker if no one else bites in FA.)

So let's ask ourselves how we got Nevis & Stove?  Were they FA superstars before coming here, or scraps, or ELC IMPs we scouted?  Whatever it was, how do we repeat that so we can get back to Nevis/Stove levels?

If Walker walks (hehe), then our next man up is Fox, right?  Has he looked like the next Nevis, or an 80% Walker?

I'd rather we find the next 100% Nevis, assuming doing so doesn't mean huge $$.  DTs are a weird position, as there doesn't seem to be a surplus league-wide.  It's a mostly-IMP position, so this strikes me as odd (like LT/RT).  But that seems to be the way it is.

To me the big skill I want in a DT is block-shed run-stop, and a keen eye / IQ for getting in the right hole.  I'm less concerned about pocket push on passes.  In the past our D was league-renowned for its run stop.  I'd like to get back to that.  It may make Willie less effective if we're a runstop-first DL, but Willie might be neutered by a weaker fellow DE this season anyhow.

In 2023 our run-stop was so-so, and our pass rush was so-so.  If we can at least improve our run stop, we should have a better D, and maybe be able to stop those lame QB scrambles and TD RB runs that we seem to give up every recent GC.  That should be enough to let our O propel us over the top and get that pesky cup back.

I feel like people complaining about the DT situation and our DL in general are really chasing a rainbow. We've had the best defense in the league the last few years. Literally ranked #1 in points and yard. The next closest D allowed 600 more yards than us. We're in a tier completely by ourselves.

But posts like these make it seem like we're coming apart at the seams. The only DT who's done anything since he left here was Sayles (who many still say "wasn't good enough"). Nevis, Richardson, Sayles, Walkers, etc were all great players, but we have chugged along without them without missing a beat.

You say our pass rush is so-so, yet we are 1st in passing yards against, opposing passing completion %, opposition completions. Our rushing yards against are ranked 3rd. What about this is so-so?

I expect to do more of the same this year.

[GCn19]

I feel like people complaining about the DT situation and our DL in general are really chasing a rainbow. We've had the best defense in the league the last few years. Literally ranked #1 in points and yard. The next closest D allowed 600 more yards than us. We're in a tier completely by ourselves.

But posts like these make it seem like we're coming apart at the seams. The only DT who's done anything since he left here was Sayles (who many still say "wasn't good enough"). Nevis, Richardson, Sayles, Walkers, etc were all great players, but we have chugged along without them without missing a beat.

You say our pass rush is so-so, yet we are 1st in passing yards against, opposing passing completion %, opposition completions. Our rushing yards against are ranked 3rd. What about this is so-so?

I expect to do more of the same this year.

I agree. Most of what I have read is fans comparing our team to our team 2019-2023 instead of comparing us to who we will actually play against. Our defence has been lights out for the past 3 years now, if we lose a guy here or there it won't be some epic collapse as people are predicting. Do we want to find the next JJ, for sure or try beef up our interior DL..absolutely...will our defence collapse if we don't find players completely at that level and game ready. Nope, it won't. We will be fine. Every year our team is going to have different strengths and weaknesses. Some years the heartbeat of our defence will be the DL, some it will be LB and secondary. It's not a static thing. While I agree that our DL took some hits, I think our secondary looks better for instance.

I think its unfair when fans take one position or two on a 12 man unit and suggest that without so and so playing we are screwed. No, defences and offences adjust to their strengths and weaknesses if they are well coached. Our units are well coached.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

I feel like people complaining about the DT situation and our DL in general are really chasing a rainbow. We've had the best defense in the league the last few years. Literally ranked #1 in points and yard. The next closest D allowed 600 more yards than us. We're in a tier completely by ourselves.

But posts like these make it seem like we're coming apart at the seams. The only DT who's done anything since he left here was Sayles (who many still say "wasn't good enough"). Nevis, Richardson, Sayles, Walkers, etc were all great players, but we have chugged along without them without missing a beat.

You say our pass rush is so-so, yet we are 1st in passing yards against, opposing passing completion %, opposition completions. Our rushing yards against are ranked 3rd. What about this is so-so?

I expect to do more of the same this year.

The difference I see is Ricky Walker played in 7 games in 2021 and 12 games in 2022 apprenticing for Sayles job, which is the right way to do it. Fox played in 3 games last season, and 2 games with BC in 2022, he was not given the prep. time last season to show he could adequately take over the position, or if he has the durability to stick it out for 20 games + the playoffs. Maybe he can, maybe he can't.

Lest we forget 29 years of struggle, with ratio and salary caps as constraints it's not always possible to recruit the perfect replacement for high level players like Jeffcoat, Biggie or Willy.  Assuming it will all work out for the best everytime is somewhat deluded by recency bias.

[blue_gold_84]

Lest we forget 29 years of struggle...

Bit of revisionist history there.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Bit of revisionist history there.

What are you talking about?

[Pete]

In past years we've had 2 of the best de's in the cfl, this has put less pressure on our dt to produce. When jeffcoat was out we were much less effective.(causing many to clamour for lemon)
It will be tough to replace Jeffcoat right away, so we need to upgrade dt to offset. Simply finding an adequate replacement for Walker isn't going to help

[blue_gold_84]

What are you talking about?

The WFC didn't struggle for 29 years.

[LXTSN]

My guess is that Haba starts at DE and Fox starts at DT.

Haba shows great signs of becoming a great pass rusher! I'm all for developing a rush end to be honest. He is 24 years old with a lot of speed. I feel good at that spot, but we should look for depth.

Fox will be in just his second season, and is 27 years old. I don't feel the same type of spark from him like I do with Haba. The more competition at this position the better! Who was that guy that looked really good for us in training camp this last season?? I think he had a sack in both preseason games.