VAJ gonna VAJ - facemask

[TecnoGenius]

Everyone missed it?  I didn't see mention on any of 3 forums, so here we go...

4Q13:47 When VAJ throws the Houston INT on the McInnis slip, after the INT while Lawson is pushing VAJ down the field to block for the INT return, VAJ grabs onto Lawson's facemask grill and holds on for multiple seconds and then throws Lawson to the ground by his grill, face first.

I thought VAJ was over that type of thuggery since switching teams and becoming "good VAJ"?  It's very similar to the time he grabbed Biggie's grill and ripped off his helmet.  It's always after a bad play on VAJ's part.  He loses it and takes it out on anyone close by.

Reminds me of all the times Duron Carter would do this facemask-downing of guys away from the play.  However, DC was worse because he'd do it all the time just for fun: winning or losing.

The booth guys noticed the takedown but didn't mention (or see) the facemask.  The fact that TSN showed a honkin' clear replay of the foul and the EITS didn't see fit to chime in, which they can for a UR FM, is slightly disturbing.  If you look at the way Lawson face-planted, it's clear why this is dangerous and should not go unflagged.  If fines after being eliminated are a thing, VAJ should see a fine for this.

VAJ is still good 'ol VAJ.  Clearly he'll always be VAJ.  Sad really, because he could be a great(er) QB if he stopped the nonsense and worked on his big game choking.

[The Zipp]

I will rewatch and look for it. 

Here is one for you investigate techno - when Kolankosky goes down in the 4th...people are yelling - blood, blood...then I think Zach is yelling at someone - is it Sheed (who looks rather agitated) to settle the F down or get off the F'ing field.  I think it was zachs voice or maybe not. 

And I never saw any blood - it looked like kolankoskies hand was hurt?  He did come back after sitting out the required plays.

[TecnoGenius]

I will rewatch and look for it. 

Here is one for you investigate techno - when Kolankosky goes down in the 4th...people are yelling - blood, blood...then I think Zach is yelling at someone - is it Sheed (who looks rather agitated) to settle the F down or get off the F'ing field.  I think it was zachs voice or maybe not. 

And I never saw any blood - it looked like kolankoskies hand was hurt?  He did come back after sitting out the required plays.

Beat ya to it... just didn't post about it (yet?).  There was no blood.  Ko-man's right hand was in a 100% white full-cover glove.  Blood would have showed up easily.  I was looking hard for it, or dripping on the turf.  His glove never comes off, not even when they are looking at it, nor when he goes to the sideline.

I'm not entirely convinced the whole episode wasn't "embellished", though for what purpose is beyond me.  Not a position you usually assign to get a boo-boo.  I addressed it a bit in the GDT near the end.

Zach is the one yelling "blood", and "knee" and making sure the refs know.

I at first thought Bailey was the one screaming the unintelligible stuff, as you can see him on screen gesturing and animated.  However, after listening to 'OB and reading some other sources it appears the point of contention was (as I guessed in the GDT) BOLO missing his blocks on the Demski screen (just before this kerfuffle), causing Demski to get blown up and possibly more injured, and costing us a potential 1st down.

Yes, it's Zach who is saying when he gets cut off that, paraphrase, "X needs to calm down or get the bleep out".  Was he mad at BOLO for screwing up, or Sheed for getting animated over it?  Must have been one or the other.  In any event, he took control of his team and solved the problem.  Ko-man then got turnstiled by 2 DTs in his/Gray's A-gap on the next play, so that sucks.  But Ko-man was back in after BC O had a turn.  And Gray's A-gap has had problems historically (though much better in 2nd half of 2023).

[Waffler]

I saw the face mask and my take is that BC was upset about the block being rougher and longer than it needed to be. Basically Adams was being pushed back, back and back and Lawson was looking like he might pancake him at the end so Adams grabs the mask. One thing you can't tell is when the play ended and if they were still going at it. Right away another BC player runs over so I feel like the play might have been over but I am not sure.

[TecnoGenius]

I saw the face mask and my take is that BC was upset about the block being rougher and longer than it needed to be. Basically Adams was being pushed back, back and back and Lawson was looking like he might pancake him at the end so Adams grabs the mask. One thing you can't tell is when the play ended and if they were still going at it. Right away another BC player runs over so I feel like the play might have been over but I am not sure.

It's easy to infer that after the FM takedown that Lawson is giving VAJ an earful, that's for sure.  Who wouldn't?  Maybe getting in his grill, too.  Who knows.  Only the all-24 knows, and anyone who was watching that action far away from the ball.

There is no law against pushing VAJ all the way into the EZ as long as it's within the whistles.  If you knock him over, it has to be outside the realm of UR, and I'm sure Lawson was being careful not to screw up the INT with a UR (though it would have been after the INT and thus not negated the INT).

Refs/EITS could have flagged UR on VAJ, and if further action occurred where Lawson did something dumb, they could give an offsetting UR.  However, nothing Lawson did that was on camera was UR-worthy.  That's much preferred to just letting VAJ's blatant DC-esque play go unpunished.

[Waffler]

BC felt Lawson was taking liberties. Do you remember Philion cranking Khari after a pic years ago? I do and I still hate that guy.

I don't want Betts or Lemon pushing Zach down the field like a blocking sled. If he grabs the facemask for self preservation I am ok with it. Also I think an official would have to have been behind the play to even see it. Was there one there?

[Stretch]

I also saw the face mask by Adams on Lawson. Pulled him to the ground by it and ref was in the vicinity. Should have been a penalty.

[Waffler]

What I notice on rewatch:  It was WAY downfield from the play. Houston is tackled on the 54 and this skirmish happens between the 25 and 35 yard lines. Was it even necessary to block him? Push him for 10 yards? From BC's point of view I would say no. The play starts with Lawson just missing a hit on Adams as the ball is thrown but lightly wraps and pushes him with his hands at that time which is near the 55 yard marker. They only show the end of the play, how do they end up that deep, behind everybody? And to see the facemask an official  would have to have been on the 25 at least. One came running in after and too late to have seen it.

I attach 3 pics. sorry for quality. This site limits size.

1. where Lawson and Adams are at time of interception
2. the facemask
3. official coming in too late

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Not everything gets called in a football game. It's probably a flag but it doesn't look particularly concerning to me. It's not like Adams has a facemask MO? Whatever.

[TecnoGenius]

Great job Waffler!  Yay, I don't have to be the only one making clips!  I like your all-24 frame; I missed that shot when I was looking.

Sir Blue, there's another couple of frames we could post that would show that Lawson is pulled down face/neck first and crunches on his neck in a very bad way.  That is totally dangerous and could have ruined his neck for next week (or worse).

Lawson was just making sure VAJ doesn't take part in the play.  I guarantee you this is coached and encouraged by Hall and his unit coach as part of the INT drill.  There is nothing shady about it.  We can pontificate all we want about what Lawson might have finally done (i.e. knock VAJ down) but the fact is he didn't so we can't judge him for something he didn't do.

Even if ref doesn't see it, EITS can call a dangerous FM takedown, especially when TSN shows it clear as day on a slowmo replay...

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

Great job Waffler!  Yay, I don't have to be the only one making clips!  I like your all-24 frame; I missed that shot when I was looking.

Sir Blue, there's another couple of frames we could post that would show that Lawson is pulled down face/neck first and crunches on his neck in a very bad way.  That is totally dangerous and could have ruined his neck for next week (or worse).

Lawson was just making sure VAJ doesn't take part in the play.  I guarantee you this is coached and encouraged by Hall and his unit coach as part of the INT drill.  There is nothing shady about it.  We can pontificate all we want about what Lawson might have finally done (i.e. knock VAJ down) but the fact is he didn't so we can't judge him for something he didn't do.

Even if ref doesn't see it, EITS can call a dangerous FM takedown, especially when TSN shows it clear as day on a slowmo replay...

I wouldn't be surprised if Adams is fined for this incident, same as he was when he ripped off Bighill's hat and swung it at him.

[NewBlue]

There was also a play where Betts was punching at Eli, like just swinging away at him.  Last one he winds up big and then stops mid way, Eli's like ***? 
Betts is a wierd dude for sure

[TecnoGenius]

There was also a play where Betts was punching at Eli, like just swinging away at him.  Last one he winds up big and then stops mid way, Eli's like ***? 
Betts is a wierd dude for sure

I didn't spot that.  If you can remember when it was that would be great!

Funny, I tried spotting Betts for much of the game and I couldn't see #90 anywhere around plays.  So much for the MOC challenger to Brady.  (Still, he'd make a fine Bomber one day.)

[NewBlue]

8:06 left in the 1st half

[TecnoGenius]

8:06 left in the 1st half

You da man!  Thanks!  Haha That's some funny stuff!!  I think the first swing right at the whistle was to Eli's grill.  That would constitute a punch.  Oh well.  Then it was like a hissy fit flailing at him.  Haha.

Good spot, I'm glad you pointed it out.  Betts getting frustrated he was neutered all half.  Maybe he wouldn't be a good fit here...  Eli yukking it up with Sheed as he walks away.

[blue_gold_84]

Vernon Adams Jr. has such a fragile ego. When he's on, he's a gamer. But when he's off or gets rattled, he falls apart.

That being said, this particular incident doesn't indicate he has a penchant for facemasking.