Dru Brown keep at all costs or accept that he's gone

[bunker]

May be a bit of recency bias here, but I thought Brown had a great game yesterday, granted against a mediocre team. He has looked so so at times this year (in preseason some people wanted him cut in favour of Pigrome) but he has generally played very well. Zach is getting older, and probably has only a couple of good years left. I actually think Zach's performance has fallen off a bit this year (more turnovers, less mobility and poise in the pocket), although he's still been the best QB in the league. What happens as he ages out? Its very hard to find a good QB in this league, and almost impossible to win without one. Brown is only 26, and may have another 6-8 years as a QB in the league. Do we keep the know quantity Zach? Do we go with the young up and comer Brown, who can give us many more productive years? Do you try to have the best of both worlds by paying Drew enough to keep him here until Zach's contract expires in 2025? Is it possible to structure a contract for Drew so that he makes... say 200,000 in year one and year 2, and then 600,000 with some guaranteed money in year 3 (when Zach is no longer under contract), as an enticement for him to stay? Or is that too much to pay for a QB with such a small sample size of play as a starter? Curious what others think. My own view is that we can't afford to pay him enough to keep him, and some other team (? Ottawa ? Sask) will offer him 2-300,000 plus incentives in a contract.

[dd]

To me, this is a Harris-Oliveira scenario all over again. One player is winding down his illustrious career, the other is on the upswing of his. There's no doubt in my mind Ottawa offers him starters $$ and he goes there to play. Collaros has a couple of years left in his tank yet, and ya, he had an off year, but even the year he had , he is probably the best in the league in terms of Qb's

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

They might be able to afford Brown if they let Schoen or Brady walk, not going to happen with Brady but they could get by without Schoen.

[Stretch]

but they could get by without Schoen.

You take that back! 

[Blue In BC]

It's a very complicated question. Free agency in an era of 1 year deals and NFL option windows. We have a large number of potential free agents. Some we'll lose and others will be able to retain.

How much does it cost is a question spread between those we want to keep and those we're able to keep. Some players may choose to leave for greater money or better chances to play a more significant role. Not everything is within the control of the team.

It's a risk reward issue. Do I think Brown is worth $600K in 3 years? No I do not. Do I know how much actual playing time he'll get next year or the following year? No I do not.

Timing approaching free agency and the 1st few hours or days come into play. To some degree it's a 1st come first serve situation.

Let's use Schoen as an example. If we are able to re-sign him for $100K+ additional money, then that takes away from the rest of the pie. If OTOH he immediately signs in Calgary for an amount we won't match, then that extra SMS will be spent elsewhere.

At the moment Schoen is a bigger priority to re-sign than Brown. I'd like to be able to retain both, but how much each player wants and how much the team is prepared to pay is all a TBD.

I don't want to entertain the idea of trading Collaros in order to retain Brown. IMO Collaros could well play another 3 or 4 years.

EDIT: The unofficial roster only shows 8 players under contract for 2024. A few more that have been released long ago still shows under contract which is confusing. In any case it shows we'll be expecting a lot of work before and into free agency.

I've always felt the priority is with re-signing the Canadians. Oliveria and our OL in particular but there are others. On defence Nichols and our two Jeffs are key players to retain.

Management will make a list of priorities and salary levels. Some will always shop around to see if they want to move or stay. It's the nature of the business.

[Waffler]

Will all depend on what happens in the playoffs. We win it all then I assume we roll with Zach. If we are not good enough... then perhaps big changes happen.

[tlf]

Keep Schoen let Lawler go.  I love Schoen. 

I'm also wanting Brown to stay.  But we need a real backup in case there's an injury to ZC. Prukop can't throw well enough as we saw.  We need a real plan for succession Kyle.

Also, it's Dru.

[Jesse]

These options seem mostly focused on how expensive it would be to keep him when cost isn?t really a major factor.

Dru is ready to compete to be a starter in this league. Period. I?m sure some of you will entertain the idea of moving on from Zach because of the age difference between the two, but I don?t think there?s much chance of that happening.

It is a forgone conclusion that Dru will leave for an increased opportunity, regardless of how large a contract were prepared to offer him - because he?s ready to be a #1.

[Blue In BC]

Anyone suggesting to cut or trade Collaros is nuts IMO.

[Blueforlife]

I would have signed Brown early in the season but I bet he wouldn't have bit.  He will go for top dollar this off season.  Yes a lot riding on the playoffs for how this plays out (less about what we do imo).  I have always loved Brown but chances are he is gone which is good for the league.  I would count every penny to find a way to sign him but we have lots of high paid exceptional vets to consider.

There are a lot of decent options at QB around the league, might bring the demand and price he commands down slightly.

[Pete]

watching the Ottawa game, no way they go into next season with Crum as their starter, expect to see them offer starter money to Dru Brown.

[dd]

That?s what I?ve been saying. Doesn?t seem right when crum plays and brown sits on the sideline, and crum isn?t starter material. Neither are the Qb s in Edmonton or Calgary for that matter. Hamilton is in a world of pain with BLM?he is officially done. So there?s 4 teams that SHOULD be looking for a Qb, Calgary will stay with Maier and that will be their downfall, he?s awful. But lots of opportunity for brown to go elsewhere and start. After saying that though, we are one hit away from needing a starting Qb ourselves, so I say sign him

[ichabod_crane]

I expect brown to go to some other team where has a real shot at being a starter and more coin. Unfortunate, but that?s the reality with a hard cap.

[TecnoGenius]

Anyone thinking we cut Zach... two words: Ricky Ray.

Zach plays until he clearly drops off badly or injuries start looking like Masoli or he loses the trust & respect of The Mafia.  That could be till 2024, 25 or beyond.  Who knows.

If Dru wants to stay with a wink & nod guarantee he gets the reigns when Zach leaves, and accepts reasonable money for a talented, seemingly legit backup (think Dane Evans), then great.  Give him a $50k bump over last year's numbers.  If he wants $500k starter money (which he won't get BTW) then bye bye Dru, give us a call in 2-3 years.

This isn't that complicated.  We won't ditch biggest-career-yards Zach just because we think he may fall off next year for a still unproven Dru.

It'll boil down to what Dru wants.  I could see bad teams offering him $200k guaranteed with another $150k in incentives, on a 1 year deal.

[Waffler]

I doubt anyone would say cut him. But if we come up short two years in a row then something needs to change and we have a lot of money tied up in that one guy. That limits what we can do. Win and we have no problems whatsoever. See you at the parade.

To me this question is better asked AFTER the Grey Cup as I am sure that's when the Bombers will evaluate everything. It's something they do every year.

[Blue In BC]

I doubt anyone would say cut him. But if we come up short two years in a row then something needs to change and we have a lot of money tied up in that one guy. That limits what we can do. Win and we have no problems whatsoever. See you at the parade.

To me this question is better asked AFTER the Grey Cup as I am sure that's when the Bombers will evaluate everything. It's something they do every year.

Actually the choices and responses in the poll suggest a few think we should in order to keep Brown.

I thought we over paid Collaros when he got his new deal. I understand why we would do that since he was the best QB in the CFL. OTOH, any QB getting that much is taking a lot of money out of the SMS and it impacts the overall roster. I'd be happier if his contract was closer to $500K.

That said, the Bombers once again scored the most points in the CFL. We also gave up the least points on defence edging out the Argos on both counts.

We all hope / even expect to be in the Grey Cup and have a very good chance of winning.

I don't think the winning lies completely in the hands of Collaros. He'll certainly be a significant part in the immediate future. He'll be here until he retires.

[peg_city]

There are some short term memories here.

Collaros is the most important bomber since......Ken Ploen? I wasn't around for that, so I'll go with him.

It's not like he had a down year this year. He had his usual year. We finished 14-4. If we don't win the grey cup, it's probably not going to be his fault.

The chances that Dru Brown is the next Zach Collaros is slim. Do we need to go through the list of quarterback who we thought were going to be great that weren't? Since 2000 - Pat Barnes, Kevin Glenn, Tee Martin, Alex Brink & Joey Elliott (who both won player of the week multiple times), Spergeon Wynn, Brad Banks (remember him being the next big QB with Ottawa, 100QB rating), Ryan Dinwiddie, Matt Nichols, Drew Willy and whoever else I forgot.

[Sec223]

A few players have been mentioned to dump to keep Brown (mostly on O). A couple big salaries could be trimmed on D. I'm looking at you Willy and JJ. Any old O linemen retiring ? Is Fatboi playing forever ?

[GOLDMEMBER]

There are some short term memories here.

Collaros is the most important bomber since......Ken Ploen? I wasn't around for that, so I'll go with him.

It's not like he had a down year this year. He had his usual year. We finished 14-4. If we don't win the grey cup, it's probably not going to be his fault.

The chances that Dru Brown is the next Zach Collaros is slim. Do we need to go through the list of quarterback who we thought were going to be great that weren't? Since 2000 - Pat Barnes, Kevin Glenn, Tee Martin, Alex Brink & Joey Elliott (who both won player of the week multiple times), Spergeon Wynn, Brad Banks (remember him being the next big QB with Ottawa, 100QB rating), Ryan Dinwiddie, Matt Nichols, Drew Willy and whoever else I forgot.

In all fairness Glenn was great for a 2-4 year period here but we all know what happened to him in 07.

[ModAdmin]

Interesting Dru Brown stat...

Willie H. Jefferson III reposted
John Hodge
@JohnDHodge
CFL stats guru Steve Daniel tells me that Blue Bombers' QB Dru Brown set a new league record for most single-season passing touchdowns with zero interceptions.

The previous record of seven was set by Drew Tate in 2010. Brown?s new record is nine.

#Bombers | #ForTheW | #CFL

[J5V]

The culture Mike O'Shea and Wade Miller have instilled into this club guarantees that the players that are here bleed blue and gold. Any player leaving here over money does so at their own peril. This is what made the Andrew Harris affair so disappointing. He'll always be a traitor to me for that reason. No one player is ever greater than the team and that applies to Dru Brown as it did to Andrew Harris. I have no doubt that the Bombers will do everything possible to keep that young man here to continue learning from one of the all-time greats. He and Zach make a great pair and I'd love to see them both with this club for many years to come.

[Blue In BC]

The success of any QB involves the talent around him. Bombers have either the best or 2nd best OL. They have the best RB and either the best or 2nd best receivers in the CFL. We can debate the minute details about our OL and receivers. However our offence is darn good.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brown because he's played well.

What would he have looked like in Edmonton, Regina or Ottawa where their offensive talent was not good. Bad in all aspects. Would he have made any of those teams better? Possibly but it would have been an uphill battle.

Regardless he may choose to leave for an opportunity to start. Money is only one aspect and I can't blame him for either of those choices if that's what happens.

[Waffler]

I can't remember a QB turn down a starter's job in the CFL if they were ready or not.

[dd]

The success of any QB involves the talent around him. Bombers have either the best or 2nd best OL. They have the best RB and either the best or 2nd best receivers in the CFL. We can debate the minute details about our OL and receivers. However our offence is darn good.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brown because he's played well.

What would he have looked like in Edmonton, Regina or Ottawa where their offensive talent was not good. Bad in all aspects. Would he have made any of those teams better? Possibly but it would have been an uphill battle.

Regardless he may choose to leave for an opportunity to start. Money is only one aspect and I can't blame him for either of those choices if that's what happens.

Don?t know what he would have done in Edmonton Regina or Ottawa, but there was a stark contrast in our ability to move the ball when Prokop was in vs brown. Yes, both were working without our key starters, so that would be analogous to Edmonton or Ottawa, and brown never missed a beat, leukoplakia sputtered, which is like crum, Powell etc etc. He?s ready alright will be shocked if he isn?t given the starters role in Ottawa or Edmonton as I think riders will stick with Harris

[Waffler]

He?s ready alright will be shocked if he isn?t given the starters role in Ottawa or Edmonton as I think riders will stick with Harris

He is ready and that's why I think money won't keep him here. Opportunity to play is what he will want.  The third option everyone is picking is a pipe dream.

[dd]

Agreed. Every athlete just wants to play, Dru's no different. And Ottawa will do well with him

[TecnoGenius]

To me this question is better asked AFTER the Grey Cup as I am sure that's when the Bombers will evaluate everything. It's something they do every year.

I don't think the result of the cup means anything regarding the decision of our QB.  Just getting to the GC (let alone winning the W) is reason enough to keep your QB.  I know everyone wants the cup, but just being there is a massive achievement... and 4 seasons in a row!!

[Waffler]

I don't think the result of the cup means anything regarding the decision of our QB.  Just getting to the GC (let alone winning the W) is reason enough to keep your QB.  I know everyone wants the cup, but just being there is a massive achievement... and 4 seasons in a row!!

Need I remind you we haven't gotten to the Grey Cup yet? I think it matters greatly if we don't or if we look "not good enough" in other aspects of a loss. A large part of the payroll is committed at QB. It would be fair to ask if that is the way forward. But again, just win baby and all the questions go away. No one willingly blows up a championship team.

[peg_city]

I can't remember a QB turn down a starter's job in the CFL if they were ready or not.

Adrian McPherson in Montreal comes to mind. Maybe not a starters job, but a job that would have gotten him more of an opportunity.

[Sir Blue and Gold]

Dru Brown is a really good QB prospect but that is no guarantee he's a sure fire starter. You put Brown behind a different offensive line with a less dominant running game, a different system and a downgrade at receiver and who knows what happens. I would definitely try and keep Brown, but you can't move on from Collaros to do it. That would make no sense.

[blue_gold_84]

Dru Brown is a really good QB prospect but that is no guarantee he's a sure fire starter. You put Brown behind a different offensive line with a less dominant running game, a different system and a downgrade at receiver and who knows what happens. I would definitely try and keep Brown, but you can't move on from Collaros to do it. That would make no sense.

This. Well said.

I think Brown has tremendous upside but how he progresses is dependent on so many factors, so his production thus far on a perennial contender should be taken with a grain of salt.

[TBURGESS]

QB's this year...

Calgary - Only team to start the same QB all year long.
Wpg - Our two time all star QB started all but 2 games, one of which he could have started.
BC & Tor - Both had to replace their starting QB's in the off season.
Mtl - Played their 2nd string QB for part of the season.
Ott, Ham, Skn, Edm - All ended up playing their 3rd string QB's for much of the season.

Brown, a 2nd string QB, looks good compared to the teams who were forced to play their 3rd string QB's for much of the season.

[Blueforlife]

It takes an elite QB to look good on a bad team.  While we would expect Brown to struggle on the weakest teams, he would also likely do well on the average and better clubs.  I believe a QBs success is primarily dependent on his experience, then talent, then OL and then the offensive system in which he plays for (does it suit his style).  Of course the run game and talent level at receiver are also significant factors.

Brown is good, might be great.  I would put a pretty penny on a down payment to ensure we find out.  We will only know once he gets a season or two of games under his belt.

The last thing to consider when looking at the expectations for a young QB is to see how well they do over a number of consecutive games.  Can they adapt to different teams? Can they do well when they face adversity? Can they overcome defensive adjustments as it pertains to clubs having more film on them?

So many factors.  Of course in this case the all mighty dollar will trump them all.  In order to keep Dru we would have to sacrifice someone else.  Very difficult decision for the club.

For any young stud having a good mentor is key.  Dru has had one of the best in the biz and that has served him well.

I see the playoffs having a potential factor in the decision on Brown.  His stock could go up or down depending if he plays and also seeing how other teams QB preform or if they get seriously injured.  Agree that it's a post cup decision that the club will need time to figure out.

[Throw Long Bannatyne]

QB's this year...

Calgary - Only team to start the same QB all year long.
Wpg - Our two time all star QB started all but 2 games, one of which he could have started.
BC & Tor - Both had to replace their starting QB's in the off season.
Mtl - Played their 2nd string QB for part of the season.
Ott, Ham, Skn, Edm - All ended up playing their 3rd string QB's for much of the season.

Brown, a 2nd string QB, looks good compared to the teams who were forced to play their 3rd string QB's for much of the season.

People often see a good QB as the first ingredient of a winning team, a magic pill that will solve all woes and instantly   make their team a winner, in reality a good QB is often the last piece of the puzzle that makes a well coached team a winning machine.  Take Nick Arbuckle's time in Calgary as an example of mediocre QB finding success on a well built team.  I can't find any evidence of a QB single handedly dragging a poorly built and coached team through to the end of the playoffs.  Other key puzzle pieces must already be in place and performing well for a team to become a contender.

[Waffler]

He also hasn't taken a pounding for 18 games. On some teams a QB does, if they last 18.  Still think he took a step to the next level this year and I think that's good for him and good for us.

[Pigskin]

I like both Dukes and Brown.

Dukes 6'1" 205, 25 years old.

Brown 5'11", 190, 26 years old.

Both have very good arm strength. Dukes runs better then Brown and more often.

However Brown has an impressive 7 TDs and 0 Int. stat, Dukes 1TD, and 1 Int.

Brown 2 full years in the CFL, Dukes 1.

Both could could start with a good OL in front of them, and a good running game like the Bombers and Argos have.

[TecnoGenius]

I like both Dukes and Brown.

I thought Dukes looked mediocre at best.  Whatever he does needs a huge boulder of salt because he's surrounded by possibly the best team in the league (I think 2nd best, but some would argue).  As someone already said: beware Arbuckle syndrome.

[peg_city]

How about we get a situation like Toronto last year? Backup comes in and wins us the Grey Cup. Then we have a REAL dilemma.

Isn't Collaros's contract somehow guaranteed?

[Sir Blue and Gold]

How about we get a situation like Toronto last year? Backup comes in and wins us the Grey Cup. Then we have a REAL dilemma.

Isn't Collaros's contract somehow guaranteed?

Collaros will be paid $600,000 annually in his new agreement for a total of $1.8 million over three years through the 2025 season. $250,000 of his $500,000 base salary is guaranteed in the final year of the contract, as per the new collective bargaining agreement stipulation allowing contracts for veteran players to be partially guaranteed.

[TecnoGenius]

How about we get a situation like Toronto last year? Backup comes in and wins us the Grey Cup. Then we have a REAL dilemma.

Careful what you wish for!  Now go wash your mouth out with soap! 

I don't care if Dru plays the entirety of both games and wins it all 80-0, Zach is our guy.

I think Kelly was a special case because he did that 2nd & 17 run to basically win the game.  Dru isn't a runner, Dru isn't doing that run.  My jury is still out on Kelly.  We'll see what he's like after another GC and/or season.  Running QBs can look better than they really are.

I have a hard time believing TOR just lucked into a dynasty QB in his "rookie" year.  Remember, the TOR team was so good they made MBT look good, and he's mediocre hot/cold at best.  There's other things making that team click than just the not-many-yards hot-headed QB.

[J5V]

Careful what you wish for!  Now go wash your mouth out with soap! 

I don't care if Dru plays the entirety of both games and wins it all 80-0, Zach is our guy.

I think Kelly was a special case because he did that 2nd & 17 run to basically win the game.  Dru isn't a runner, Dru isn't doing that run.  My jury is still out on Kelly.  We'll see what he's like after another GC and/or season.  Running QBs can look better than they really are.

I have a hard time believing TOR just lucked into a dynasty QB in his "rookie" year.  Remember, the TOR team was so good they made MBT look good, and he's mediocre hot/cold at best.  There's other things making that team click than just the not-many-yards hot-headed QB.

Yeah, I am buying what you're selling here. I'm not sold on Kelly. He obviously has a good arm and knows how to run the Argo offense but I'm not sold on the intangibles. We *know* Zach is a winner. It was obvious in 2019 and nothing has changed my mind about that. Zach has been through it all multiple times and has come out of the fire tempered like the finest grades of steel. We haven't seen enough of Kelly to know how he'll handle the furnace and adversities this game presents. He may yet be consumed by those flames when they come. We'll see.

To me the difference between the Bombers and the Argos is the quality of the team. When this Bomber team comes together in adversity the result is greater than the sum of it's parts. We don't know this about Toronto. They have very good players but we don't know how great their team is. Beating up the weak sissies on the street isn't the same as fighting the best from Fight Club and coming out on top.