Our special teams are bad

Started by Austin85, August 19, 2023, 04:36:05 AM

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TecnoGenius

Quote from: bunker on August 19, 2023, 12:42:40 PM
Not for us last night maybe, but it's unusual unusual for a team that covers punts properly.
Watch again. It's a 37 yard punt, line of scrimmage our 15, Lewis catches it at about Bomber 52, so a short punt, no way a situation where he's out kicking the coverage. When he catches it, exume is 5 yards away, Darby about 10 laterally. Kramdi, Griggs and Jackson are 20 yards or more away. I don't think a 20 yard cushion is how a punt coverage team draws it up. Hang time is only 4 seconds, which was part of the problem, but with that short a punt, there should be more bombers in the "contain" zone.
Another issue seems to be Griggs, who's got outside coverage but inexplicably punches into the middle while Lewis is turning outside. Wilson also was well blocked and got there late.
Watch Calgary's punt just before that one. They've got 4 players within 10 yards of McRae when the ball hits the ground and 7 players within 15 yards.
I wonder if we had to start holding back and sticking with our blocks longer because of the blocked punt.
In any event, when you kick from your 15 and the other team takes it back to your 30, for a 15 yard net gain, it is unusual.

Reader's Note: long boring details about X's and O's, you have been warned.  :o

I was talking more the 4Q15:00 return.  Looks like you mean our next kick (punt) 4Q11:54.  First I think we need to cut Sheahan some slack because this one had a high snap he did well to be quick to come down with it.  This explains the short punt (I didn't see any tip/block).  So I think we have to discount any particular blame/analysis on the cover team because they simply had no time, and the whole chain of events comes down to the LS making a booboo.

Clearly Exume and Darby are the gunners.  But Exume has already lost contain because he's not outside the returner.  I bet he's coached to stay X yards from the rail (within a distance he can cover if needed) but it's clear the mess, ex-LS, is due to precisely this mistake.

Your >20 yards observation is probably due to the "new" (like 6 years ago?) rule that the cover guys must stay at the LoS until the ball is gone.  Maybe the weird snap threw off their timing and they lingered too long.  They certainly were pretty casual about breaking off the line to get downfield, in the limited time window we get to see them.

Like you said, they also seem in a much tighter formation and probably have been told to focus on stopping the kick-rush, thus spending that extra second making sure that duty is finished before taking off.  The gunners, who can vacate immediately, don't have that problem and are downfield fast.

CGY is doing a great job doing the prior-years infamous SSK holding-on-every-return trick, as Exume is clearly held for just enough time to keep him from closing the rail, but not enough to draw a flag.  Briggs gets the same fate.  A great block(hold) just enough to delay his rail closure.  Yes, his slight kick inside you saw is a bit strange.

Since Kramdi's the first unblocked guy, that to me is the most egregious mistake.  However, he's probably coached that the 1st & 2nd wave of the right side will close the rail.  I also think he overshoots a bit and should have been farther back -- not so close to Briggs.

Hallett's also out of position because no one expects those 1st 2 waves to not close the rail.  We've made this same mistake I think last season where some returner got a just-on-the-rail TD return out of us.  Clearly we rely on wave 1 & 2 to seal that rail, and if that fails we are in for some pain.  But we do need guys outside to close the oft-used cut-back.

Wilson saves the day and we clearly design our coverage to keep our guys in properly spaced waves to stop the home run.  I think this is on purpose, a conscious choice to give up yards to insure against the TD.  (Notice how we haven't given up a kick TD in a while.)  And I think it's due to the IR status of 3 of our ST gurus.

Credit to Lewis, he's a super fast returner who tricks you with his speed.  Grant would do the same to coverage like this, if our blockers get the same mini-holds to delay guys for a couple of tenths.

I like your breakdown and look forward to more like it!
Never go full Rider!

DM83

Overall this seasons representatives on special teams look unmotivated, lazy and disinterested.  Ain?t no prizes for making a tackle I guess?

Anyone else not impressed with this punter??maybe. legs will be available after this past weekends games lol.

M.O.A.B.


Blue In BC

#33
Quote from: DM83 on August 20, 2023, 08:36:35 AM
Overall this seasons representatives on special teams look unmotivated, lazy and disinterested.  Ain?t no prizes for making a tackle I guess?

Anyone else not impressed with this punter??maybe. legs will be available after this past weekends games lol.

He hasn't been great IMO. Low hang time seems to be the biggest issue and it's not helping our coverage teams. I wonder what the other Global punter on our PR looks like in practice?

All that said our coverage and return teams have also been horrible.

I think we might see Gauthier back this week and he could help. Grant is eligible to practice but I don't know if he will or how close to ready he might be. Parker's name keeps coming up and I'd support that change.

Overall we're losing the field position game too often.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

Blue In BC

2019 Grey Cup Champions

Lincoln Locomotive

Quote from: Blue In BC on August 20, 2023, 02:23:59 PM
He hasn't been great IMO. Low hang time seems to be the biggest issue and it's not helping our coverage teams. I wonder what the other Global punter on our PR looks like in practice?

All that said our coverage and return teams have also been horrible.

I think we might see Gauthier back this week and he could help. Grant is eligible to practice but I don't know if he will or how close to ready he might be. Parker's name keeps coming up and I'd support that change.

Overall we're losing the field position game too often.
Not a fan of our punter.....I prefer kickers who rip the hide off the pigskin and send it into the ozone when you really need a big kick to get us out of a hole.    Haven't seen much of that this year,,,,
We are losing field position on punts and kO's most of the time.....poor uninspired tackling hasn't helped us out....yeah we miss Miller and Gauthier but what about our next man up philosophy?
Bomber fan for life

pjrocksmb

Quote from: bwiser on August 19, 2023, 09:20:30 PM
Thats the way I saw it too. Kramdi looks like the guy who screwed up.
Yup

blueraid

We picked up Exume to fix the problem about getting down field quickly and tackling somebody....He's been a disappointment on teams so far.....Can't wait for Miller to get healthy and when he's back,.... he'll make a big difference on the oppositions return game....Two other spots of concern are the kicking by Sheehan and our return game.....We need Parker on returns, if not I fear McCrea will cough one up at a most inopportune time, he's not a returner....As far as kicking , I thought we had another Aussie kicker on the pr.....Maybe it's time to give him a shot

Waffler

#38
Quote from: Blue In BC on August 20, 2023, 02:23:59 PM
He hasn't been great IMO. Low hang time seems to be the biggest issue and it's not helping our coverage teams. I wonder what the other Global punter on our PR looks like in practice?

The other global kicker, Schmitz, is still here. He doesn't get many kicks in practice anymore though. I have seen him kick some unbelievable towering and long punts but also I notice he shanks the odd one. So does every kicker of course but Sheahan is a BIT more steady. That's with no rush and I feel Sheahan does not handle the rush well. Schmitz is tall and has really long legs so I think when he nails his normal kick, the one with perfect spiral on it, it really travels.  Of course he can't compete with the different styles of punt Sheahan has but also I've yet to see many of those prove useful. I just want an old school punt gotten off in time.

Googled him and found this report

https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-free-agent-hub-report-karl-schmitz

Schmitz is a big punter with a massive leg, leading to booming punts and ability to flip field position. Bringing NFL experience, his strong leg was in full display at the HUB Camp in Los Angeles, displaying great hangtime. The confident Schmitz was able to punt with good form and a clean operation all day. On top of the pure power, he showed that he could aim punts as well, pinning them inside the ten yard line and towards the sideline.
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gordo

#39
Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on August 20, 2023, 03:04:28 PM
Not a fan of our punter.....I prefer kickers who rip the hide off the pigskin and send it into the ozone when you really need a big kick to get us out of a hole.    Haven't seen much of that this year,,,,
We are losing field position on punts and kO's most of the time.....poor uninspired tackling hasn't helped us out....yeah we miss Miller and Gauthier but what about our next man up philosophy?
I agree.  Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this guy have the best leg in training camp?  I thought he could boom them but perhaps he's being coached to use the line drive angle punts instead.  Was waiting last game for him to just pound a long one but maybe Calgary pressure forced them to use the quicker line drive angle punts.

Blue In BC

Quote from: gordo on August 20, 2023, 03:54:41 PM
I agree.  Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this guy have the best leg in training camp?  I thought he could boom them but perhaps he's being coached to use the line drive angle punts instead.  Was waiting last game for him to just pound a long one but maybe Calgary pressure forced them to use the quicker line drive angel punts.


We should cut Schmitz at this point if he hasn't shown he could beat out Sheehan. Using a Global kicker is costing us in more ways than one regarding ratio.
2019 Grey Cup Champions

Jesse

Quote from: blueraid on August 20, 2023, 03:44:25 PM
We picked up Exume to fix the problem about getting down field quickly and tackling somebody....He's been a disappointment on teams so far.....Can't wait for Miller to get healthy and when he's back,.... he'll make a big difference on the oppositions return game....Two other spots of concern are the kicking by Sheehan and our return game.....We need Parker on returns, if not I fear McCrea will cough one up at a most inopportune time, he's not a returner....As far as kicking , I thought we had another Aussie kicker on the pr.....Maybe it's time to give him a shot

I think you may have to ease up on the Miller expectations. 34 year old who has yet to play this season. He may not be back at all.

Gotta figure it out.
My wife is amazing!

The Zipp

Quote from: Jesse on August 20, 2023, 04:09:25 PM
I think you may have to ease up on the Miller expectations. 34 year old who has yet to play this season. He may not be back at all.

Gotta figure it out.

That is beyond true...if that is our "solution" we are in trouble - special teams is based on assignment, focus and just all out physical effort - willingness to sacrifice your body on every play.  The ham and eggers we have look out of position and soft...surprised MOS isn't blowing a gasket with some of the effort and execution we are seeing. 

theaardvark

Miller, Gauthier, Hansen... that's 25% of the hoped for ST crew... and the top part of it...

Add on Grant and Parker...

We're getting pretty good play out of a crew that is heavily compromised...
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

RebusRankin

Quote from: blueraid on August 20, 2023, 03:44:25 PM
We picked up Exume to fix the problem about getting down field quickly and tackling somebody....He's been a disappointment on teams so far.....Can't wait for Miller to get healthy and when he's back,.... he'll make a big difference on the oppositions return game....Two other spots of concern are the kicking by Sheehan and our return game.....We need Parker on returns, if not I fear McCrea will cough one up at a most inopportune time, he's not a returner....As far as kicking , I thought we had another Aussie kicker on the pr.....Maybe it's time to give him a shot

He has 9 ST tackles in 6 games. Disappointment?