Winnipeg Jets Discussion - 2023/2024 Season

Started by ModAdmin, August 15, 2023, 06:30:57 PM

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ModAdmin

With the Winnipeg Jets training camp starting next month, this will be the new pinned Winnipeg Jets thread for the 2023/2024 season.

https://thehockeywriters.com/10-questions-prior-to-jets-training-camp/

The 2022/2023 thread will be closed when training camp opens in September.

"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden

Pigskin

Should the Jets give Helli $10M on a short term deal?
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

theaardvark

Quote from: Pigskin on August 16, 2023, 04:00:19 AM
Should the Jets give Helli $10M on a short term deal?

CH37 will be hard pressed to find a deal at $8.5 million ongoing... especially if he's looking for 5 years... I don't think, though, $10mil/2years would be of interest to him.  What kind of deal would he land after that?  $8mil/6 years is $28 mil more than $10mil/2years, so he'd have to find a 4 year 7 mil deal at age 34...

I think he wants to sign his last contract next, its hard to "bridge" a 31 year old player.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Jesse

Quote from: Pigskin on August 16, 2023, 04:00:19 AM
Should the Jets give Helli $10M on a short term deal?

As much as I love the idea of keeping Helle and Scheif in Jets jerseys for their whole careers, I would personally trade them for assets at the deadline.

I know the Jets will do everything in their power to sign them; but Helle especially, I don't see taking a deal here. He has no reason to sign a short term deal that would make it more difficult for him to sign his next contract. I imagine it would take a minimun of 5 years - but he's really going to want 8. Why would he sign a 2-3 year deal?
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Jockitch

Am sure we all agree that HellB in a Jet uni is what we all desire.

Chevy might go $8.75 for 5-6 years
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Jesse

Quote from: Jockitch on August 17, 2023, 01:24:20 AM
Am sure we all agree that HellB in a Jet uni is what we all desire.

Chevy might go $8.75 for 5-6 years

I do and I don't. I don't think it's in the best long term interest of the team. But he is the guy you'd hate to see on another team. I more hate that we wasted his last contract. We should have been a Contender every year he was in his prime on a reasonable deal. On his next contract, whether he's here for more money or gone somewhere else, we're a worse team.

All that aside, I think he's made it pretty clear he wants out. BUT - I think this version of the team could be better than last year, so if we're a play-off team, and if Chevy  offers him more than any other team, he might stay. But again, that's not to our benefit.
My wife is amazing!

blue_gold_84

No goalie is worth $10M per season, IMO. I would argue no player is but that's another discussion.

I'm all for trying to keep Hellebuyck, who's been the lynchpin of this team for a long time now. That said, the price needs to be right - and the term.

There's no market for him (or Scheifele), apparently, so I'm not sure what sorts of assets could be acquired in a trade.

I have no idea how his situation shakes out going forward.
#forthew
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Jesse

I assume there will be a market for them at the deadline - where salary cap is less of an issue since teams are taking on much less.

But those will be rental prices. And if we're in the hunt, I don't believe the Jets would make the deals, so it's a 50/50 shot that Helle moves on for free.

I expect Scheif to re-sign on a legacy contract.
My wife is amazing!

theaardvark

Do we hold on to 37 and 55 to the trade deadline, and then keep them as "own rentals"?  I guess that is possible.

If CH37 plays in top form in a contract year, and actually steals us games in the playoffs,I can see him going to FA and getting his 6 year 8.5mil deal in a place he WANTS to play in.  I can also see Chevy selling him on the idea that that place is here.  It will be evidence that we are not rebuilding, that we can compete, and will, going forward, and that he would be a big part of that.

If he plays sub career average, and we miss the playoffs, and he blames the team in front of him, he's gone, and if Chevy can get a return for him anywhere near what he got for Dubois, home run.  I'm sure that after the season there will be a team that thinks it is a goaler away from the CUp and will mortgage the future to get him.  Hopefully more than one team feels that way.

MS55 on a legacy contract?  Not sure how happy I'd be with that.  Still not sold that MS55 *isn't* the problem in the room, and if we could swap him straight up for another #1 C, giving both a fresh start, I'm all for that. 

The talk has been trading CH37 for a #1 C, and then trading MS55 for a quality goaler and a D man... those trades have to be nigh on simultaneous, or it could be disaster.  Best scenario is if that happens in a 3 way deal... 

We have enough new blood in the room, lots of leadership has left, how the new room shakes out will depend in large part who's behind the bench.  Bowness has the job, how long a leash does he get?   
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

blue_gold_84

#forthew
лава Україні!
Don't be a Rich.

theaardvark

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on August 17, 2023, 04:51:18 PM
Ugh.

Eloquent,

Please elucidate.

The possible trade of CH37 and MS55 is not a contentious or undebated situation, and the main issue is how to get the best return for the assets, or use of the assets if a good return is not there.

That's all I was stating.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.

Pigskin

I would give MS55, $8M on a 3-5 year extension. Helli has priced himself out of Winnipeg. Nate also need to go. At $6m a year he's just not worth it.
Don't go through life looking in the rearview mirror.

blue_gold_84

Quote from: theaardvark on August 17, 2023, 07:18:52 PM
Eloquent

I'd go with succinct. ;D

There isn't any comparison to be made to the Dubois trade because he was a pending RFA and the trade was contingent on him signing long-term with the Kings.

Hellebuyck and Scheifele are going to be UFAs after next season, and so I see only two scenarios where they aren't Jets for the 2024-25 season: traded as rentals for prospects/picks at the deadline to a team in the playoff picture should the Jets not be in it, or signed elsewhere on July 1st, 2024 and the Jets get nothing in return.

Your disdain for the latter has been well documented on this forum, so I'll just leave it at this: Scheifele is currently the team's best centre by a wide margin. Considering no teams have come forward with any tangible interest in trading for him, re-signing him seems like the right play depending on the money and term.

As for Hellebuyck, it's a similar situation in that no teams have expressed interest in a trade. Also, he's far and away the team's best netminder, one of the best in the league, and arguably the biggest contributor to the Jets' success the last handful of seasons. Maybe that isn't saying much but this team is markedly worse without him between the pipes. Trying to retain his services at the right term and price seems prudent until his replacement materializes.

Your trade ideas for two pending UFAs don't really lend themselves to reality in today's NHL.
#forthew
лава Україні!
Don't be a Rich.

Jesse

Quote from: Pigskin on August 18, 2023, 07:20:21 PM
I would give MS55, $8M on a 3-5 year extension. Helli has priced himself out of Winnipeg. Nate also need to go. At $6m a year he's just not worth it.

No way Nate?s going anywhere.
My wife is amazing!

theaardvark

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on August 18, 2023, 08:14:22 PM
I'd go with succinct. ;D

There isn't any comparison to be made to the Dubois trade because he was a pending RFA and the trade was contingent on him signing long-term with the Kings.

Hellebuyck and Scheifele are going to be UFAs after next season, and so I see only two scenarios where they aren't Jets for the 2024-25 season: traded as rentals for prospects/picks at the deadline to a team in the playoff picture should the Jets not be in it, or signed elsewhere on July 1st, 2024 and the Jets get nothing in return.

Your disdain for the latter has been well documented on this forum, so I'll just leave it at this: Scheifele is currently the team's best centre by a wide margin. Considering no teams have come forward with any tangible interest in trading for him, re-signing him seems like the right play depending on the money and term.

As for Hellebuyck, it's a similar situation in that no teams have expressed interest in a trade. Also, he's far and away the team's best netminder, one of the best in the league, and arguably the biggest contributor to the Jets' success the last handful of seasons. Maybe that isn't saying much but this team is markedly worse without him between the pipes. Trying to retain his services at the right term and price seems prudent until his replacement materializes.

Your trade ideas for two pending UFAs don't really lend themselves to reality in today's NHL.

"No team has come looking to trade for.."  is something we don't know. 

A: There could have been trades floated, just not what Chevy wants. 

B: With both players being exceptionally high grade, isn't it strange no one is knocking down the door to get these pieces they can build around?   If signing in Winnipeg will take x+ vs. x to sign with another team, you'd think other teams would be more interested in them than we are... 

You're right, we've gotten a lot of good mileage out of both players, truthfully, its not like they are assets with long futures ahead like Dubois (or Liane that we traded for Dubois) had.  And sure, teams trading for 55 or 37 would be signing them to 5-8 year deals expecting to possibly buy out/trade the last few.  But they both can help teams now, and could be pieces that make that last step to contender. 

We aren't going to get a haul of current stars for either, but there should be trades available with some future prospects/picks.  Is there a FA C out there that can bridge us a year of development? 

I think the team has moved forward on many fronts, and it will be interesting to see what the new look team will be.  Not sure how much different it could be without 55 or 37 or both, but it would be be way to allow a new group of leaders to take over.

Quote from: Jesse on August 18, 2023, 08:19:26 PM
No way Nate?s going anywhere.

2 years left at $6mil cap hit ($5mil cash), and a 10 team NTC, he's a hard one to find a dance partner to trade him away...  and a buyout, well... maybe next year.  Like Wheeler.
Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.