CGY @ TOR GDT Fri Aug 4, 2023

[TecnoGenius]

Have at it!

[pjrocksmb]

I'm interested to see if TO can continue there great play

[TecnoGenius]

Is this the day TOR gets its first loss?  I'm really wavering on the pickem for this one.  TOR cannot win them all.  Playing in CGY is historically difficult.

Did you know CGY has won zero games at home this season?  That's gotta hurt this proud team and fan base.

After this TOR game, CGY has @BC, WPG, @TOR !!!  If they lose these 4 games in a row they are in deeeep trouble.  The easiest win at home (until they face EDM in week 13) might be this game.  Does Dickenson The Greater go all in on this one?

[TecnoGenius]

As I always say, TOR doesn't look great on paper.  Only their RBs and run game is good on paper.  Maybe their LBers too.  But Peters is out so their DBs are nothing to write home about.  Coxie is out and their other receivers are having down years, especially Gittens (big fantasy disappointment).

So many no-names on the roster.  But for some reason their team has gelled and excelled from the GC momentum.  I think they are hitting above their weight and will fall to earth sooner rather than later.

Not sure CGY is the team to do it, though, since CGY lacks a good QB.  They look good on paper, especially their R corps and DBs, but it's not gelling yet this year.  Very strange situation for both teams!

[TecnoGenius]

Ok, I talked myself into changing my pick to CGY.  So go Stamps!  Hahaha, cognitive dissonance: ABC  <brain explodes>

Game starting.  Anyone know if Odoms-Dukes, the GTD, is playing or not?  Where can one get the last-minute info like that?

[pjrocksmb]

As I always say, TOR doesn't look great on paper.  Only their RBs and run game is good on paper.  Maybe their LBers too.  But Peters is out so their DBs are nothing to write home about.  Coxie is out and their other receivers are having down years, especially Gittens (big fantasy disappointment).

So many no-names on the roster.  But for some reason their team has gelled and excelled from the GC momentum.  I think they are hitting above their weight and will fall to earth sooner rather than later.

Not sure CGY is the team to do it, though, since CGY lacks a good QB.  They look good on paper, especially their R corps and DBs, but it's not gelling yet this year.  Very strange situation for both teams!

TO looks good all ways

[dd]

Toronto is playing over their heads right now. They've played relatively mistake free football and played good. I think their bubble will burst. They're good but they aren't the 72 Dolphins or anything, they are beatable.

[Pete]

key to playing argos tough is field position, no stupid penalties or turnovers.

[pjrocksmb]

Toronto is playing over their heads right now. They've played relatively mistake free football and played good. I think their bubble will burst. They're good but they aren't the 72 Dolphins or anything, they are beatable.

I think they are playing at a top level because they have a good young QB, deep talent and exceptional coaching.  Beatable absolutely.

[Pete]

with this wind its a big advantage for toronto to win the coin toss

[pjrocksmb]

with this wind its a big advantage for toronto to win the coin toss

Might die down?

[pjrocksmb]

Nice drive!

[TecnoGenius]

CGY #87 Allen who had a short completion 5 mins ago isn't on any chart anywhere!  Not AR, PR, IR, nowhere.  Does not exist.

I guess that's the GTD replacement.  Still -- how is that legal?

[TecnoGenius]

That explosion is on SAM Wall.  Bumps into his own guy with no TOR around, LOL.  Unacceptable for CGY and a vet like Wall.

Hey, nice to see Nick Taylor back in the CGY lineup!  Suits said he's back at HB.... uh, was he CB before his short injury?  He's a natural HB.  Hope he shows he still has it.

TOR is really trying to not look like a run-only team.  They've been reining in Oullette the last few games.  Very few yards/TDs, not a great fantasy pick.  If CGY wants to win they can't make it so easy for Kelly, who isn't the best passer.

[TecnoGenius]

I'm fine with CGY's D plan so far.

1. Must stop the TOR run, even if they don't look like they want to run.  They'll eventually use mullet-man

2. Stop Kelly from running: contain.  So far so good there.

After that, just play sound ball and don't give up another explosion.  Oh ya, keep Leake contained in the ST lanes.

[Pete]

can Maier throw farther than 10 yards? 2nd and long seems like a lost cause, the only play they have is a screen

[pjrocksmb]

can Maier throw farther than 10 yards? 2nd and long seems like a lost cause, the only play they have is a screen

He throws a reasonable deep ball

I'll look for Nick Taylor I remember him now

[Pete]

Calgary\s secondary looks terrible

[TecnoGenius]

can Maier throw farther than 10 yards? 2nd and long seems like a lost cause, the only play they have is a screen

He's ok deep, but can make bad reads for INTs.  Arm might be one of the weakest in the CFL, so can't go 50 yards down field.

Pickett looks like ACL, so attack the SAM.  I'm curious to see who TOR moves there.  They aren't dressing many DBs, so this will open up a weak spot somewhere.

[pjrocksmb]

Kelly can sure sling it boy wow

[TecnoGenius]

Man, I hate DPI, such a stupid penalty to take.  Moxey wasn't going to be left behind.  No reason for it.  Make him catch the ball then tackle.  Same result as DPI, but R might drop it.

[TecnoGenius]

Kelly's foot/ankle acting up.  Might impact his escapability.

CGY seems to be bringing the intensity tonight, which is critical if they want to have a chance.

TOP still in favor of CGY I think, might be going for the Rocky IV wearing-down technique. 

[TecnoGenius]

CGY already running more than they did the whole game last week.  TOR still backing away from their run game.  It's like opposites day.

[TecnoGenius]

CFL refs doing some more ticky-tack phantom calls, like they did against us last night.  Booth is wrong, it was before yards were gained, but it was the weakest IB call I've seen in a while.

[Pete]

Oulette is built like a tank  5 ft 9 208 lbs but runs likes hes 230

[TecnoGenius]

Kelly is out, for now.  He has a Strevie / Mahomes foot owie.  If they start losing badly, might he come back?

Hey CGY, remember my point #1?  Stop the mullet-man.  With Kelly out and no-name in TOR is going to go super run heavy.  Like run 1st, run 2nd, and run 3rd.  Maybe AH33 will finally see some quantity of reps.  He still hasn't gotten a TOR TD, has he?

[pjrocksmb]

Too bad Kelly got hurt

[Pete]

redemption for moxie..great play

[pjrocksmb]

Little bit of a duck there

[Pete]

so glad we have buck as offensive coordinator

[TecnoGenius]

Gonna be real tough on the rookie QB.  CGY is amped up and desperately needs this home win.  CGY secondary very experienced.  Expect CGY to bring the heat most plays.

Not convinced on that facemask.  But the video didn't show enough to challenge.

[pjrocksmb]

Lewis is really good

[TecnoGenius]

That was a really smart play by Maier to stay in-bounds because it's 3rd down and don't want to leave time for TOR to get in FG range.

[TecnoGenius]

That's a TD baby

[pjrocksmb]

Crazy play for the 6

[Pete]

Dinwiddie is not happy  

[pjrocksmb]

Dinwiddie is not happy  

Good

[ichabod_crane]

Crazy play for the 6

Crazy ending to the half!

Kelly out for rest of game except if emergency. Liking stamps chances now

[TecnoGenius]

TOR needs to watch that TOP or they'll run out of gas.

a) If TOR puts Kelly back in they can have a good chance of winning, but might injure him further

b) TOR lets the game ride on no-name, likely lose, but they can afford to lose as they own the E and no other team can challenge them, so this is a useless game for them

[TecnoGenius]

Haha, Leake got '19 GC Hasened!!

[TecnoGenius]

Time for TOR to go to the run-only playbook.  Maybe trust him with a screen.

TOR D might get fired up to try to compensate.  Another 5 min on the ToP and they'll start losing steam.

[Pete]

thats the danger with over using your primary returner, especially 5 ft 7 174 ibs

[Pete]

that hit on qb should be rtp

[TecnoGenius]

CGY the new dink & dunk masters?  Go hire McAdoo, he's available 

TOR D getting sloppier, starting to tire.

Having so many RBs rostered might hurt TOR D if they keep losing ToP

[TecnoGenius]

that hit on qb should be rtp

Ya, by precedent this season that's RTP.  I don't like it, but that's the precedent.  I don't see how that's not overturned.

[Pete]

you've got a new safety and you don't test him? Cmon Dickenson ..start coaching

[ichabod_crane]

Argos can afford to keep Kelly out, so doubt he comes back in

[Pete]

this game is taking a toll on both teams

[ichabod_crane]

you've got a new safety and you don't test him? Cmon Dickenson ..start coaching

Seems stamps keeping maker to only a short passing game to avoid picks

[TecnoGenius]

Judge being out ruins the ratio.  Hey, here's a great chance to use the new NA-injury-sub or DNA allowances!  Dozier is the DA.  D.Williams might qualify as a normal NA.  Anyone see if they can catch the sub TOR did...

[TecnoGenius]

Seems stamps keeping maker to only a short passing game to avoid picks

Maier has done a couple of mid balls.  But ya, they're afraid of the deep.  I think you do a very quick pass on a high arc to a timing go route where it's guaranteed behind everyone and either your guy makes a play or doesn't.  If Maier had the arm they could try the ol' throw it 60 yards on 2nd down and it's the same as a punt thing.

[TecnoGenius]

TOR's run D is very good.  They seem to focus on it, even when teams aren't running much.  Must remember for when we face them.

[TecnoGenius]

CGY should avoid the worst of the weather around.  But might drizzle off and on for the rest of the game.  That would favor the run game, which may favor TOR.

Does CGY go prevent-D and prevent-O like we did vs OTT?  Hope not.  New QB, but it's the CFL and they aren't up by enough.  CGY O needs to keep the gas on.  TOR's not out of it yet.

[TecnoGenius]

That little Lewis guy is sure slippery.  He was the fantasy vulture tonight, assuming gamezone bothered to put his name in the system.  Would be $2500.

[TecnoGenius]

CGY taking the foot off.  Big mistake.  If they lose the big mo, they won't get it back.

Need more than just runs and screens

[TecnoGenius]

Is that the 3rd CGY near-INT drop in 1 game?  Yikes

[Pete]

I guess we see why he doesnt go deep, got creamed

[TecnoGenius]

I guess we see why he doesnt go deep, got creamed

Ya, but he picked the worst time to go deep: major blitz.  That's when you need to read and go hot route.  Surely master-QB-brain Dickie coaches Maier up on this stuff.

Mills looks to be a great fantasy RB pick tonight.  He's been a bad pick for a few weeks.

[TecnoGenius]

I think TOR D is done.  ToP too rough and they are giving that "I give up" jogging thing.

It'll be up to TOR O to get something done on next possession or CGY can just close it out.

[dd]

Interesting week so far, Bombers stock went way up, Argos stock goes down. To me,Bombers are #1 team, despite season records. Lawler is a game changer for us and our O line found their mojo

[dd]

Argos run D sucks

[Pete]

as we talked about...dont take dumb penalties and win the field position game ..oh and knock out the opposing qb...

[TecnoGenius]

CGY spying the rookie (therefore, running) QB on that 3rd down designed QB draw is the masterstroke move that WPG needed to do vs OTT ther other week.  That's really all we had to do to win that game.  So frustrating.

Rookie QB == running.  Heck, that simple rule might have won us the '22 GC too.

[Pete]

I hope we do that against Elks next week..you have to know Tre Jones will be emulating Crum

[TecnoGenius]

Dinwiddie the new Destroyer Of Headsets, before the last play.   

Daniel #0 ends 1 away from tying the tackle record?  V formation cost him the chance to tie.

[TecnoGenius]

Maier interview: I see why Dickenson likes this guy.  He seems to have large cranium capacity, just like Dickenson was when he played.  Not the best arm, not the biggest guy: hey just like Dickenson too!

I always wondered why CGY was sticking with Maier when he's so lackluster.  Now I know.  But I think they need to finish top-3 in the W in order to not start looking in February FA for a better guy.  Lucky for Maier there's very few better QBs that might hit FA.

[Doublezero]

Maier interview: I see why Dickenson likes this guy.  He seems to have large cranium capacity, just like Dickenson was when he played.  Not the best arm, not the biggest guy: hey just like Dickenson too!

I always wondered why CGY was sticking with Maier when he's so lackluster.  Now I know.  But I think they need to finish top-3 in the W in order to not start looking in February FA for a better guy.  Lucky for Maier there's very few better QBs that might hit FA.

Dru Brown could be a FA if he tires of being second fiddle and has ideas of being a starter somewhere. Small sample size, but who's to say he isn't superior to Maier? Strevy hanging on by a thread w/ Jets ... could he come back North before long?

[northof30]

This game and the Bombers game reinforce my suspicion that the referees in the CFL get paid based on the number of flags they throw. Maybe rename the League to the CFFL. On average way more penalties per game than the NFL.

[Lincoln Locomotive]

seems like Toronto goes as Kelly goes.....their back up didn't fare well.   Also the dropped punt and subsequent fumble recovery for a Calgary TD in the end zone was a game changer.    If Kelly is out for the next game TO is quite beatable....he makes their offence tick as Zach does with ours.    If we ever lose Zach we too, are quite beatable.   It's one thing for Dru Brown to come off the bench in relief and have success and yet another to start. That being said Zach has shown us incredible leadership and resilience since joining the Bombers and his winning record in the past 4 seasons has been nothing short of spectacular.   

[Blue In BC]

Never like to see injuries to any player on any team. I was reading a bit over on the Argo forum.

Their DL, Brinkman was reportedly on crutches after his injury. That could be a longer term issue.

Their SAM Pickett ( he's very good ) didn't return but nothing specific about how long or serious his injury could be.

Kelly is the biggest question. Mobility is key for any QB but it's one of his strengths. A foot / ankle problem has put many players on at least a 1 game IR. He may be good in a week or 2 or this could limit him to some degree all season.

[dd]

This game and the Bombers game reinforce my suspicion that the referees in the CFL get paid based on the number of flags they throw. Maybe rename the League to the CFFL. On average way more penalties per game than the NFL.

There was way more flags because there was way more penalties, you can?t let players foul one another and not call it because you ll slow the game down. Tough, you foul, drop the flag and maintain the integrity of the game. And don?t mention the NFL, nobody cares what they do, nobody I couldn?t care if that league fell off the face of the earth.

[northof30]

There was way more flags because there was way more penalties, you can?t let players foul one another and not call it because you ll slow the game down. Tough, you foul, drop the flag and maintain the integrity of the game. And don?t mention the NFL, nobody cares what they do, nobody I couldn?t care if that league fell off the face of the earth.

Firstly, while I agree fouls should be called, every rule (especially rouging the passer and pass defence) have grey areas and imo they are now called too strictly. Secondly, I couldn't give a hoot about the NFL either and when our players start disrespecting their fans and their country by kneeling I won't care about this one. It was used as a comparison for this point only!

[dd]

agreed.

[Stats Junkie]

We have more penalties in the CFL in part because the NFL does not include all penalties in their totals.

Offsetting penalties
In the CFL, offsetting penalties are each scored with the corresponding yardage included in the penalty totals. In the NFL, offsetting penalties are called on the field, noted in the play by play, but do not show up in the penalty totals.

Example 1: Offsetting Unnecessary Roughness penalties (Personal Foul in NFL)
CFL would score these as 2 penalties for a total of 30 yards.
NFL would not include these in the penalty totals.

Example 2: Offside on WR & Illegal Contact on DB
CFL - 5 yard penalty to WR and a 10 yard penalty to DB. Ball is moved 5 yards and can result in a first down.
NFL - penalties offset and down is repeated. Penalties not included in final totals.

Example 3: Holding OL & Roughing the Passer DE
CFL - 10 yard penalty to OL & 15 yard penalty to DE. Ball is moved 5 yards downfield with an automatic 1st down
NFL - penalties offset and down is repeated. Penalties not included in final totals.

Declined Penalties
CFL counts declined penalties in the totals with 0 yards associated
NFL does not count a declined penalty in the totals.

Yes there are more penalties in the CFL because we count everything.

[bomb squad]

We have more penalties in the CFL in part because the NFL does not include all penalties in their totals.

Offsetting penalties
In the CFL, offsetting penalties are each scored with the corresponding yardage included in the penalty totals. In the NFL, offsetting penalties are called on the field, noted in the play by play, but do not show up in the penalty totals.

Example 1: Offsetting Unnecessary Roughness penalties (Personal Foul in NFL)
CFL would score these as 2 penalties for a total of 30 yards.
NFL would not include these in the penalty totals.

Example 2: Offside on WR & Illegal Contact on DB
CFL - 5 yard penalty to WR and a 10 yard penalty to DB. Ball is moved 5 yards and can result in a first down.
NFL - penalties offset and down is repeated. Penalties not included in final totals.

Example 3: Holding OL & Roughing the Passer DE
CFL - 10 yard penalty to OL & 15 yard penalty to DE. Ball is moved 5 yards downfield with an automatic 1st down
NFL - penalties offset and down is repeated. Penalties not included in final totals.

Declined Penalties
CFL counts declined penalties in the totals with 0 yards associated
NFL does not count a declined penalty in the totals.

Yes there are more penalties in the CFL because we count everything.

Thanks for that. Another thing to consider are "dead" plays. Kickoffs are essentially a dead play. At least half of punts are fair catches. I don't think the NFL comparison is of much value anyways. Penalties are penalties. They're part of the game. They allow the game to be played "on the edge" but fair a the same time. Are there too many? I don't know. Is there any more than there used to be? I don't know.

[bunker]

Thanks for that. Another thing to consider are "dead" plays. Kickoffs are essentially a dead play. At least half of punts are fair catches. I don't think the NFL comparison is of much value anyways. Penalties are penalties. They're part of the game. They allow the game to be played "on the edge" but fair a the same time. Are there too many? I don't know. Is there any more than there used to be? I don't know.

That's an excellent point. A lot of CFL penalties are no yards and illegal blocking/holding  on punt and kick returns, which are virtually non-existent in the NFL.

[dd]

 Almost every punt play has a penalty, at all levels of Canadian football. Offside,  No yards, and block on the back are the common ones. But the punt return is probably the most exciting part in any ga,e as any team can score in that play, or fumble the ball away. And the other league let?s you wave your arm and kill one of the most exciting plays in the game, what a mistake.

[TecnoGenius]

Are there too many? I don't know. Is there any more than there used to be? I don't know.

Well, they've been continually getting stricter on:

1. what a DB can do without it being DPI
and
2. what constitutes UR/RTP

NFL has done #2 but not really #1.  Therefore we're going to see a lot more penalties than we used to because nearly every pass has some form of potential DPI, many QB hits are RTP, and normal hits like what Biggie did are nonsense, phantom UR.

I also think the CFL has much younger/inexperienced non-head ref officials, who almost certainly don't get as much training and practice as NFL guys do.  I think that makes them more flag-happy as they are over zealous.  For comparison, see how much nylon is thrown in the GC's: virtually nothing compared to a "normal" game.  That's the best refs from the whole season, and they let the players play.