Salary Disclosure, NDAs and NCAs

[Jesse]

IMO you're barking up the wrong tree for useless information. We have an SMS and we hear whether teams over spend. The team that spends the most doesn't necessarily win and the team that spends less but wisely may win it all. NOTE: Some teams are public teams and that information is probably available if we choose to find out.

Generally we have an idea of what all the starting QB's earn. Did knowing what Reilly made in 2021 really change anything except raise the salary levels in 2022? Does knowing what Collaros will earn in 2023 raise salaries for the free agent QB's? I don't expect any to earn more than Collaros but they may earn more than might have otherwise.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing when QB's earn 10% of the total SMS spend? It could be argued either way. We could easily say the Lions paying Rourke on an ELC got the best bang for their buck of any player in the CFL. That's the opposite of what happened with what was paid to Reilly in 2021.

Some have suggested capping salaries by position. Others just want the minimums to be raised. All are good arguments but the SMS is spent across the roster. Increase the bottom means less spent at the top ELC or vice versus.

As a fan I don't care how they spend it or where. I care about the net results of how the team does and whether they seemed to have made the correct decisions. That's only partially calculable due to injuries to key highly paid players.

Take Ottawa for example. Masoli probably got a good salary although I don't specifically what he earned. However his injury was luck of the draw. Would they have done better if they had chosen another QB in free agency? Who knows.

We have many potential free agents going into 2023 . Many will get re-signed and that will mean we'll lose some we want to keep but can't afford to retain. It doesn't mean those getting more didn't earn new contracts.

Should the teams not post rosters or depth charts, then? Should we have media guessing some players' names and numbers via inside sources? Do we need to be informed when there are coaching changes or cuts or new signings?

It's all useless information when it comes down to it. But increases in transparency increase engagement.

[blue_gold_84]

IMO you're barking up the wrong tree for useless information. We have an SMS and we hear whether teams over spend. The team that spends the most doesn't necessarily win and the team that spends less but wisely may win it all. NOTE: Some teams are public teams and that information is probably available if we choose to find out.

Generally we have an idea of what all the starting QB's earn. Did knowing what Reilly made in 2021 really change anything except raise the salary levels in 2022? Does knowing what Collaros will earn in 2023 raise salaries for the free agent QB's? I don't expect any to earn more than Collaros but they may earn more than might have otherwise.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing when QB's earn 10% of the total SMS spend? It could be argued either way. We could easily say the Lions paying Rourke on an ELC got the best bang for their buck of any player in the CFL. That's the opposite of what happened with what was paid to Reilly in 2021.

Some have suggested capping salaries by position. Others just want the minimums to be raised. All are good arguments but the SMS is spent across the roster. Increase the bottom means less spent at the top ELC or vice versus.

As a fan I don't care how they spend it or where. I care about the net results of how the team does and whether they seemed to have made the correct decisions. That's only partially calculable due to injuries to key highly paid players.

Take Ottawa for example. Masoli probably got a good salary although I don't specifically what he earned. However his injury was luck of the draw. Would they have done better if they had chosen another QB in free agency? Who knows.

We have many potential free agents going into 2023 . Many will get re-signed and that will mean we'll lose some we want to keep but can't afford to retain. It doesn't mean those getting more didn't earn new contracts.

If I had any clue what the hell you were arguing, I'd attempt to respond. Not sure how I'm "barking up the wrong tree" by trying to explain my view on something, either.

Should the teams not post rosters or depth charts, then? Should we have media guessing some players' names and numbers via inside sources? Do we need to be informed when there are coaching changes or cuts or new signings?

It's all useless information when it comes down to it. But increases in transparency increase engagement.

This is more or less what I was trying to explain, so thank you for commenting. We get all sorts of other "useless" information (player signings, trades/transactions, roster moves, releases/firings, etc.) and it encourages discussion, debate, and involvement by fans, media members, and so on.

For whatever reason, the CFL has chosen to maintain the status quo and keep actual salary figures private. Why that continues to remain secretive is asinine, IMO.

We know what the SMS limit (salary cap) is per team. Why is the breakdown vis a vis a team's roster not shared publicly? It's absurd.

[Blue In BC]

If I had any clue what the hell you were arguing, I'd attempt to respond. Not sure how I'm "barking up the wrong tree" by trying to explain my view on something, either.

This is more or less what I was trying to explain, so thank you for commenting. We get all sorts of other "useless" information (player signings, trades/transactions, roster moves, releases/firings, etc.) and it encourages discussion, debate, and involvement by fans, media members, and so on.

For whatever reason, the CFL has chosen to maintain the status quo and keep actual salary figures private. Why that continues to remain secretive is asinine, IMO.

We know what the SMS limit (salary cap) is per team. Why is the breakdown vis a vis a team's roster not shared publicly? It's absurd.

Obviously that information seems to mean something of value to you. We agree to disagree what benefit it would be for fans.

Rosters and depth chart information is an entirely different issue as fans look to determine injury status or additions and deletions. In the 1950-1990's before internet this sort of information was very difficult to get anywhere except via news papers long after the fact. Today there is a need for instant gratification.

Same as free agent lists. While it's not useless, it just allows fan engagement. It's about football. Knowing whether a given player is earning $100K or $200K is not relevant to hearing a player has been re-signed of lost to another team.

[Blue In BC]

Should the teams not post rosters or depth charts, then? Should we have media guessing some players' names and numbers via inside sources? Do we need to be informed when there are coaching changes or cuts or new signings?

It's all useless information when it comes down to it. But increases in transparency increase engagement.

Absurd argument that has nothing to do with the conversation about $$$$$.

[blue_gold_84]

More bad faith arguing. Shocker.

[TecnoGenius]

If I had any clue what the hell you were arguing, I'd attempt to respond. Not sure how I'm "barking up the wrong tree" by trying to explain my view on something, either.

Hahaha, rich.

[blue_gold_84]

Hahaha, rich.

Hahaha, petulant.

[Jesse]

Absurd argument that has nothing to do with the conversation about $$$$$.

It's not about money, it's about transparency.

[Blue In BC]

It's not about money, it's about transparency.

What value is it to know whether Gauthier earns $80K, $120K, of $200K? It's information but what do you do with it? Debating whether a given player earned his salary or deserves more is subjective.  Whether we can afford to offer what a player deserves falls within the entire SMS spend. To some degree it's 1st come 1st served.

What's important is whether we feel the team has built a good roster across the spectrum. Whether that's retaining players or adding free agents.

How they got there is a complex process of what players want, whether they want to join the team and competitive offers from other teams.

That's all you need to know. What makes you think you are entitled to know what players earn, especially on private owned teams?

[ModAdmin]

What value is it to know whether Gauthier earns $80K, $120K, of $200K? It's information but what do you do with it? Debating whether a given player earned his salary or deserves more is subjective.  Whether we can afford to offer what a player deserves falls within the entire SMS spend. To some degree it's 1st come 1st served.

What's important is whether we feel the team has built a good roster across the spectrum. Whether that's retaining players or adding free agents.

How they got there is a complex process of what players want, whether they want to join the team and competitive offers from other teams.

That's all you need to know. What makes you think you are entitled to know what players earn, especially on private owned teams?

Whether a pro football player, accountant, car salesman, etc. etc., who in the world would want their salary to be public knowledge?  Agree with B in BC on this one.

[theaardvark]

With every other sport using salaries as part of the info disclosed about players, it makes the CFL an anomoly.

Good?  Bad?  No, just different.

It does reduce some of the wagering, and it for sure limits discussion about trades, not knowing who fits under SMS, and while it might be embarrassing to some how little they are paid, it does make discussions on who you should keep or cut more informed, and knowing what we have spent each year so far can make discussions about who we can chase, and how much we could offer...

The agents know, the GM's know, the league knows, the reporters find out approximate numbers, what does revealing it change?

As to comparing a professional athlete to a car salesman re: income, you have to admit, its not even close to the same thing.  If every car dealer except Ford revealed their salary structure, and Ford didn't, you'd find that odd.  That is the way it is in pro sports. 

Every pro player, other than CFL, has his salary as public knowledge.  Minor league baseball, minor hockey, spring football... all public.

Is the CFL or CFLPA embarrassed about how little the players are paid?  Do we assume they are paid even less than they are because we don't know?  We know the min salaries, which most players are getting, the exact salary of Global players (until next year), etc...  I'm not sure the reasoning for limiting this information.

[Jesse]

What value is it to know whether Gauthier earns $80K, $120K, of $200K? It's information but what do you do with it? Debating whether a given player earned his salary or deserves more is subjective.  Whether we can afford to offer what a player deserves falls within the entire SMS spend. To some degree it's 1st come 1st served.

What's important is whether we feel the team has built a good roster across the spectrum. Whether that's retaining players or adding free agents.

How they got there is a complex process of what players want, whether they want to join the team and competitive offers from other teams.

That's all you need to know. What makes you think you are entitled to know what players earn, especially on private owned teams?

It?s a salary cap league and contracts allows us to understand the team building part of FA.

Again, all information is valuable or none of it is. None of this has any real world value that affects our lives, it?s just stuff to talk about.

[TBURGESS]

I think all salaries should be public. Companies would have to justify everyone's salary. You'd know where you stand within your company & you'd know who was paying more for the job you do.

It would be great for the worker's to simply look at the list and say 'I'm worth more' or 'X isn't worth that' or maybe even 'Why does my boss make so much more than I do'.

It would be a lot more work for Companies and they'd hate having to justify anyone's salary, which is the reason they tell us you shouldn't talk about how much you make.

[Blue In BC]

I think all salaries should be public. Companies would have to justify everyone's salary. You'd know where you stand within your company & you'd know who was paying more for the job you do.

It would be great for the worker's to simply look at the list and say 'I'm worth more' or 'X isn't worth that' or maybe even 'Why does my boss make so much more than I do'.

It would be a lot more work for Companies and they'd hate having to justify anyone's salary, which is the reason they tell us you shouldn't talk about how much you make.

Everybody thinks they are worth more. Everybody wants more. It's a vicious circle.

[TBURGESS]

Everybody thinks they are worth more. Everybody wants more. It's a vicious circle.

Sure it is, but the only folks who gain from people not talking about how much they make is the companies who pay them.