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Question: Your pick
Empire - 12 (29.3%)
Eagles - 9 (22%)
Elite - 1 (2.4%)
Elks - 9 (22%)
Other (suggest name) - 10 (24.4%)
Total Voters: 41

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Author Topic: Suggested new name for Edmonton CFL team  (Read 18155 times)
the paw
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2020, 06:54:59 PM »

I've never heard anywhere WHY they are called the eskimos to begin with? Is to Honour them? If so, then whats the fuss about?

 

Because if the people being called that don't feel honoured, it is off the mark.  If I were to call various posters on this board "dorks", I wouldn't get around the Code of Conduct by claiming I was honouring them.   It's kind of like sleeping with women, consent matters....

But the real issue is why do people feel like its a really minor issue if a group (or even people like me) are offended, but the idea of changing a team name is a MAJOR frigging problem?  Unpack that one. In my view, its because if we acknowledge that this misnaming has been a dick move all along, we feel implicated in it. Its easier to rationalize away, and do nothing, leaves our own collective self image intact...

(this post is not aimed specifically at Sec2227, just quoted him because that angle is one that comes up often in these discussions).
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2020, 08:00:47 PM »

Because if the people being called that don't feel honoured, it is off the mark.  If I were to call various posters on this board "dorks", I wouldn't get around the Code of Conduct by claiming I was honouring them.   It's kind of like sleeping with women, consent matters....

But the real issue is why do people feel like its a really minor issue if a group (or even people like me) are offended, but the idea of changing a team name is a MAJOR frigging problem?  Unpack that one. In my view, its because if we acknowledge that this misnaming has been a dick move all along, we feel implicated in it. Its easier to rationalize away, and do nothing, leaves our own collective self image intact...

(this post is not aimed specifically at Sec2227, just quoted him because that angle is one that comes up often in these discussions).
I don't think that changing the name is a major freaking problem, nor do I think calling them Eskimos in 1949 was a dick move or misnaming. It was simply what the northern tribes were called at the time and that didn't change until 1977. I didn't have anything at all to do with the name so I have no need to rationalize anything to keep my self image intact.

I'd also support other peoples right to call me paleface or whitey even tho I wouldn't feel honoured, I know it would piss off a bunch of white folks and that it could be seen as racist/derogatory. They're just words. They only hold the meaning you give them.
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2020, 02:05:58 AM »

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/article-jordin-tootoo-says-debate-over-name-of-edmontons-cfl-team-should/

agree

Because if the people being called that don't feel honoured, it is off the mark.  If I were to call various posters on this board "dorks", I wouldn't get around the Code of Conduct by claiming I was honouring them.   It's kind of like sleeping with women, consent matters....

But the real issue is why do people feel like its a really minor issue if a group (or even people like me) are offended, but the idea of changing a team name is a MAJOR frigging problem?  Unpack that one. In my view, its because if we acknowledge that this misnaming has been a dick move all along, we feel implicated in it. Its easier to rationalize away, and do nothing, leaves our own collective self image intact...

(this post is not aimed specifically at Sec2227, just quoted him because that angle is one that comes up often in these discussions).
While I would agree that the UBC Clan request is an over-reach based on just a lack of general historical knowledge, I think the notion of team names being sacrosanct is ridiculous.  It doesn't have to offend every person, every person of the group identified, or even a majority of any particular group.  If it's obsolete, anachronistic and insulting to a bunch of people, just change it.  Its only a sports team for crying out loud.

And yes, "Indian" is derogatory in two senses.  First, it is just factually wrong.  First Nations aren't from India.  Imagine if your name is "Bob", and all the white folks called you "Brian" your whole life.  Even though Brian is an innocuous name, that would be messed up.  The second sense in which it is derogatory is that for a couple of hundred years now, that particular word has rolled off the tongue of countless racists, usually appended to an unflattering adjective - "dirty", "drunken", etc.   Its constant usage by racists has made the term itself racist. 

The Washington team name is just an out and out racist pejorative from two centuries ago.  Its steeped in ignorance and there is nothing noble, flattering or redeeming about it.  A similar parallel term for any other racial group would have been changed long ago.  There is a reason Malcolm X once stated that the only group in America that might possible have gotten a worse deal than the black man was the American Indian.

Terms like Braves and Chiefs can be viewed as complimentary, and they might even have originally been intended that way. But they are problematic because they reinforce the image of Native Americans as cartoonish caricatures from two centuries back.  Whether you are talking cigar store Indians or "noble savage" archetypes, these images marginalize present day Native Americans.  It is a barrier to viewing that population as living, breathing, 3 dimensional citizens who are living in the 21st century.    If one truly wanted to pay homage, Florida State and the Seminole Nation offer a possible path....

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/11/native-imagery-in-college-sports/417036/
wise words by a wise man
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 02:23:37 AM by pjrocksmb » Logged

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dd
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2020, 03:10:40 AM »

I think this entire argument is beyond ridiculous. Dear god, there has to be more pressing matters in this world. With all the racism and police brutality going on, I have a tough time believing anyone gives a rip one way or the other on this, it?s the few outspoken left of left that always have to raise a fuss about something. Give it a rest already
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2020, 04:17:32 AM »

Imagine for one second if, for example the NFL team in Washington was called the Washington Whiteskins.  Certainly "white supremacy" would enter the conversation these days and Caucasians and Black people for the most part would be offended perhaps even for different reasons.  Should be fairly easy for people to see Washington Redskins being offensive to a wide range of people.

With the number of team name options out there, it should be easy to choose a name that is not directed at a certain population of people.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2020, 06:17:22 AM »

This again?  Mark it on the calendar... 3 times a year we have to have the same debate.

FIrst of all, for the anti-Eskimoers: so easy for you to say "just change the name", "no problem", "what's the fuss" -- It's not your team!  Bet you'd feel differently if it was the Bombers facing this.  Some people would defend our team name to the death.  It's our team, and been that way for, how long, 70+ years?  It's our history.  History matters to many people.  We don't want our history erased.  (P.S. A bit of history: The first task of any communist revolution, as any student of the USSR or Mao's China will tell you, is to destroy any trace of history and invent a new one.  A people without a past (history) can be led in any direction in the future.)

If you'd defend the name of your team, why do you get upset when loyal Esks fans do the same?  Maybe they like their name.  Maybe they're proud of their long history.  Maybe they don't want it erased.

It doesn't have to offend every person, every person of the group identified, or even a majority of any particular group.  If it's obsolete, anachronistic and insulting to a bunch of people, just change it.  Its only a sports team for crying out loud.

You can take any word, or any team name, and find a "bunch of people" who it offends.  In today's environment, there are those who are offended by everything.  And if they aren't offended by your name today, they'll be offended by it tomorrow as they steamroll over each name one by one until they reach yours.

"First they came for the AAA's and I did nothing, because I was not an AAA.  Then they came for the BBB's and I did nothing... then they came for me."  The people agitating for this will never be satisfied.  Even if they got every one of the "iffy" names listed in this thread changed they'd find another to attack.  Guaranteed.  It actually isn't about names at all, it's about the power to force their will and their view of the world on everyone else.

Using a 2020 filter, all teams with Indian type names like Chiefs or Braves should be renamed. Teams with Clan in the name should be too. It doesn't matter if the names were originally meant as derogatory or not. Not sure where it stops. Cowboys? Bombers? (Weapons of mass destruction)  Roughriders? (I bet Mexicans don't hold them in high esteem)

Bombers is probably next on their list in the CFL because it certainly does have negative connotations, possibly conjuring images of ISIS, suicide bombers, B-52's flattening Vietnam, or B-29's Dresden, etc.  I guarantee you if they "get" the Esks, they'll eventually come for the Bombers.  Ironically our name has nothing to do with war or bombs, but that won't stop them.

The current thing to do is to change words that a group of people find offensive. Personally, I'm against it, but I'm in the minority.

That's what they want you to believe.  But it's not true.  There's a lot more than you think, it's just that most now have to hide (even during polls, which is why they are usually wrong).

I never said any or every team name is sacrosanct. You even mentioned MLK used the term American Indian. I'm not sure what else you would call them and disagree that it is a derogatory term.

Without commenting on the word, I will point out that all of Canada's laws regarding that population are still called the "Indian Act" (if I'm not mistaken).  Why aren't the same people up in arms about the Esks petitioning Trudeau to change that?  Not sure about "progressive logic" (an oxymoron?), but aren't there a lot more First Nations people in Canada that can be offended by "Indian Act" compared with the tiny number of Inuit in Alberta that can be offended by "Esks"?

By that definition except for indigenous populations we're all descendants of immigrants. Either 1st generation or beyond most of North American population came from elsewhere.

Indigenous populations probably traveled over the land bridge though Alaska centuries ago. Likely European and Asian DNA.

You're on the right track but didn't go far enough.  Even the First Nations people are "immigrants", as you said, having come over from Asia.  In fact, if all human life originated in Africa as the theory goes, then everyone everywhere is an "immigrant", except in the African birthplace of all mankind, wherever that particular locale may be.

It's also theorized that modern homo sapiens killed, crowded out, or assimilated (or all three) neanderthal man.  So the current First Nations people may in fact have been colonizers or conquerors themselves.  I point this out only to show the rabbit hole one can/must descend when trying to base current policies on things that happened 100, 200, 2000 and 20000 years ago.  As someone else said: don't we have better, more pressing, things to do?

Because if the people being called that don't feel honoured, it is off the mark.  If I were to call various posters on this board "dorks", I wouldn't get around the Code of Conduct by claiming I was honouring them.   It's kind of like sleeping with women, consent matters....

But that's the beauty of free speech, I shouldn't need your consent for anything I say.  If you sought out consent for every word you want to say, you'd never be able to say anything.  In fact, that's the "1984" scenario and actually an intended consequence of the current assault on words.

How 'bout Washington Whiteskins or Caucasians.  Grin Maybe that will make up for the years of Redskins.

Imagine for one second if, for example the NFL team in Washington was called the Washington Whiteskins.  Certainly "white supremacy" would enter the conversation these days and Caucasians and Black people for the most part would be offended perhaps even for different reasons.  Should be fairly easy for people to see Washington Redskins being offensive to a wide range of people.

So let me get this straight: we have to change First Nations-based names because we are offending "non-white" people.  And now you're saying if there was the "Whiteskins" or "Palefaces" we'd have to change those because we are, uh, offending "non-white" people?  I'm confused.  If the overarching goal is to not offend the "marginalized" groups, then shouldn't it be ok to offend the "non-maginalized" group?  In fact, don't you think you could find some "marginalized" groups that would love to force us to take the name "Whiteskins" in retaliation for the decades of Esks and Chiefs?

Again, some people aren't seeing the forest for the trees.  The particular name doesn't matter, the goal is to force change, force destruction of history, one name, one statue at a time.  The "Esks" are just the low hanging fruit.  Anti-Esks people: do you not care that many Inuit groups, leaders and people have come out many times and said the name is ok?  What do you have to say to the actual Inuit Esks fans that are STHs and love their team and name?  I guarantee you they exist.  Why does your offense take priority over their pleasure?  You're not even Inuit!!  You claim to be doing this for their sake, yet it seems like you aren't interested in actually listening to some of them.  I bet a million dollars that even if every single Inuit signed a petition tomorrow saying that the Esks name is just fine that the anti-Eskers would still demand a name change.

I still think a team should be named "Pasty White Tall Skinny Computer Nerds".  I would love for my demographic to be represented by a team name!  People might actually think we're tough!  Since I'm the actual target of the "offense", don't I get a say?  I'm fine with it, because I don't feel the need to get offended by everything.  Going further, "The Honkies" would probably be the perfect new name for a team: just think of all the air horns you could sell and how loud the stadium would be!  Jersies all white, a Canada Goose as the mascot, pooping out footballs to throw into the crowd, and air horns everywhere.  There, Esks, if you cave in to the "progressive" crowd, I've solved all your problems.
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2020, 11:26:11 AM »

"This area was known as the Beaver Hills in several Indigenous languages, according to local history book Edmonton In Our Own Words (University of Alberta Press, 2004)."

The Beavers seems the logical new name. Merchandise possibilities are endlessly lucrative.
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2020, 04:05:43 AM »

Imagine for one second if, for example the NFL team in Washington was called the Washington Whiteskins.  Certainly "white supremacy" would enter the conversation these days and Caucasians and Black people for the most part would be offended perhaps even for different reasons.  Should be fairly easy for people to see Washington Redskins being offensive to a wide range of people.

With the number of team name options out there, it should be easy to choose a name that is not directed at a certain population of people.
Well said
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2020, 02:05:31 PM »

I miss having actual football to talk about.

That being said, I'm betting on the new name being either the Edmonton Empire or the Edmonton Emperors.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2020, 02:12:29 PM »

I miss having actual football to talk about.

That being said, I'm betting on the new name being either the Edmonton Empire or the Edmonton Emperors.

I think if the name changes they will try to retain the double EE concept. Probably lots of choices. One that came to mind was Edmonton Excite but yours weren't bad either.

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TBURGESS
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2020, 02:48:29 PM »

My guess is Edmonton Elk because they were called that once before.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2020, 02:50:18 PM »

My guess is Edmonton Elk because they were called that once before.

That would work.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2020, 07:45:18 PM »

I think if the name changes they will try to retain the double EE concept. Probably lots of choices. One that came to mind was Edmonton Excite but yours weren't bad either.



Colleague of mine says there are signs around Edmonton saying "Welcome to the Empire" for sports advertising, so it seems like its at least an idea in the mix.
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DM83
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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2020, 02:34:11 AM »

Edmonton Klondike
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dd
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2020, 04:24:56 AM »

Edmonton Eagles or Extreme
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