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Author Topic: Suggested new name for Edmonton CFL team  (Read 18154 times)
pjrocksmb
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This is the CFL- support our league- Go Canada!


« on: July 09, 2020, 02:53:06 AM »

About time
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/edmonton-eskimos-team-name-july8-1.5641937
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the.inkster
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2020, 12:09:31 PM »

"about time" for what? The Edmonton team has held this stance on their name for as long as I can remember and their talking points have not changed.
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bluengold204
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2020, 12:12:21 PM »

"about time" for what? The Edmonton team has held this stance on their name for as long as I can remember and their talking points have not changed.

Not only that the article also says that the IRC has no issue with the name and it is being used in a respectful manner.



However, the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation ? which represents Inuit who live in Canada's western Arctic region ? said it does not take exception to the term "Eskimo" and said it supports the use of the word "as long as it is used in a respectful manner."

"It was developed by a First Nations group to describe a group of Inuit they were aware of," IRC chair Duane Smith said in an email to CBC News last week.

"As it pertains to the Edmonton Eskimos of the Canadian Football League, they do use the term out of respect and have been reaching to the Inuit organizations and communities to develop collaborative approaches within those communities to promote education, awareness, respect, healthy recreational pursuits and reconciliation."
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2020, 12:18:37 PM »

If they accept it they should no issue here. To me is comparable to the KC Chiefs. Is is honouring that heritage.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2020, 12:49:11 PM »

IMO some of the political correctness is going overboard in some instances. In the USA they want the Cleveland Indians and Washington Redskins to change their team name. Is " Indians " a derogatory term? Is it more of an issue than the " Chiefs" in Kansas?

Columbus Ohio among some cities wants to change their name. It was broadcast that New York was named after a notorious slave trader. Does New York need to change the city name now?

In Vancouver the UBC Clan teams are being petitioned to change their name. It was named as a reference to a Scottish Clan not the KKK use of Klan.

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the paw
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2020, 01:11:27 PM »

IMO some of the political correctness is going overboard in some instances. In the USA they want the Cleveland Indians and Washington Redskins to change their team name. Is " Indians " a derogatory term? Is it more of an issue than the " Chiefs" in Kansas?

Columbus Ohio among some cities wants to change their name. It was broadcast that New York was named after a notorious slave trader. Does New York need to change the city name now?

In Vancouver the UBC Clan teams are being petitioned to change their name. It was named as a reference to a Scottish Clan not the KKK use of Klan.



While I would agree that the UBC Clan request is an over-reach based on just a lack of general historical knowledge, I think the notion of team names being sacrosanct is ridiculous.  It doesn't have to offend every person, every person of the group identified, or even a majority of any particular group.  If it's obsolete, anachronistic and insulting to a bunch of people, just change it.  Its only a sports team for crying out loud.

And yes, "Indian" is derogatory in two senses.  First, it is just factually wrong.  First Nations aren't from India.  Imagine if your name is "Bob", and all the white folks called you "Brian" your whole life.  Even though Brian is an innocuous name, that would be messed up.  The second sense in which it is derogatory is that for a couple of hundred years now, that particular word has rolled off the tongue of countless racists, usually appended to an unflattering adjective - "dirty", "drunken", etc.   Its constant usage by racists has made the term itself racist. 

The Washington team name is just an out and out racist pejorative from two centuries ago.  Its steeped in ignorance and there is nothing noble, flattering or redeeming about it.  A similar parallel term for any other racial group would have been changed long ago.  There is a reason Malcolm X once stated that the only group in America that might possible have gotten a worse deal than the black man was the American Indian.

Terms like Braves and Chiefs can be viewed as complimentary, and they might even have originally been intended that way. But they are problematic because they reinforce the image of Native Americans as cartoonish caricatures from two centuries back.  Whether you are talking cigar store Indians or "noble savage" archetypes, these images marginalize present day Native Americans.  It is a barrier to viewing that population as living, breathing, 3 dimensional citizens who are living in the 21st century.    If one truly wanted to pay homage, Florida State and the Seminole Nation offer a possible path....

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/11/native-imagery-in-college-sports/417036/
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GCn19
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2020, 03:08:57 PM »

By your logic the Dallas Cowboys need to change their names as well. It is anachronistic, cartoonish, and re-inforces a stereotype as well. I don't agree with the use of the word Indians, Eskimos, or RedSkins but endorse the use of Chiefs and Braves. There is nothing wrong with honoring historical culture imo, so long as the term wasn't derogatory to begin with. Just my opinion though.
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the paw
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2020, 03:35:06 PM »

By your logic the Dallas Cowboys need to change their names as well. It is anachronistic, cartoonish, and re-inforces a stereotype as well. I don't agree with the use of the word Indians, Eskimos, or RedSkins but endorse the use of Chiefs and Braves. There is nothing wrong with honoring historical culture imo, so long as the term wasn't derogatory to begin with. Just my opinion though.

I don't think it is logical to extend the concept beyond identifiable cultural/ethnic groups to occupations.  Cowboys, Steelers, Forty-Niners, Roughriders, Argonauts, Stampeders, Oilmen and even Canucks is all okay in my book.  But if the North American Cowboys Union releases a statement suggesting the name is problematic, I'm prepared to reconsider my position...

I too, am okay with honouring historical culture, I just think you have to do it with consultation, consent and historical accuracy.  As mentioned, the Seminoles managed to figure it out, and even the Chicago Blackhawks have a defensible case.  UND couldn't get consent, so they are no longer the Fighting Sioux, they are the Fighting Hawks. I don't believe the citizens of North Dakota have been damaged by extending this simple courtesy, and that was the right thing to do IMHO. 
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2020, 03:36:46 PM »

White is factually wrong. We're pink or taupe and we turn kinda grey when we grow old.. It's a derogatory term that has strong connotations of Imperialism, Genocide, and Slavery. Being lumped in with all those horrible things based on nothing more than your skin colour or race is racist. (Note this is not how I actually feel, it's just restating the 'argument' to show its fallacy.)

Using a 2020 filter, all teams with Indian type names like Chiefs or Braves should be renamed. Teams with Clan in the name should be too. It doesn't matter if the names were originally meant as derogatory or not. Not sure where it stops. Cowboys? Bombers? (Weapons of mass destruction)  Roughriders? (I bet Mexicans don't hold them in high esteem)

The current thing to do is to change words that a group of people find offensive. Personally, I'm against it, but I'm in the minority.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 03:54:49 PM by TBURGESS » Logged

Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.
Blue In BC
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2020, 03:46:25 PM »

While I would agree that the UBC Clan request is an over-reach based on just a lack of general historical knowledge, I think the notion of team names being sacrosanct is ridiculous.  It doesn't have to offend every person, every person of the group identified, or even a majority of any particular group.  If it's obsolete, anachronistic and insulting to a bunch of people, just change it.  Its only a sports team for crying out loud.

And yes, "Indian" is derogatory in two senses.  First, it is just factually wrong.  First Nations aren't from India.  Imagine if your name is "Bob", and all the white folks called you "Brian" your whole life.  Even though Brian is an innocuous name, that would be messed up.  The second sense in which it is derogatory is that for a couple of hundred years now, that particular word has rolled off the tongue of countless racists, usually appended to an unflattering adjective - "dirty", "drunken", etc.   Its constant usage by racists has made the term itself racist. 

The Washington team name is just an out and out racist pejorative from two centuries ago.  Its steeped in ignorance and there is nothing noble, flattering or redeeming about it.  A similar parallel term for any other racial group would have been changed long ago.  There is a reason Malcolm X once stated that the only group in America that might possible have gotten a worse deal than the black man was the American Indian.

Terms like Braves and Chiefs can be viewed as complimentary, and they might even have originally been intended that way. But they are problematic because they reinforce the image of Native Americans as cartoonish caricatures from two centuries back.  Whether you are talking cigar store Indians or "noble savage" archetypes, these images marginalize present day Native Americans.  It is a barrier to viewing that population as living, breathing, 3 dimensional citizens who are living in the 21st century.    If one truly wanted to pay homage, Florida State and the Seminole Nation offer a possible path....

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/11/native-imagery-in-college-sports/417036/

I never said any or every team name is sacrosanct. You even mentioned MLK used the term American Indian. I'm not sure what else you would call them and disagree that it is a derogatory term.

The Washington team was a racist term 2 centuries ago. Thinking it still is depends on how and where it is used.

How about Redcoats or Patriots? The British probably would call patriots, traitors.

Why are African Americans referred to as " African " to begin with since few were born in Africa.

By that definition except for indigenous populations we're all descendants of immigrants. Either 1st generation or beyond most of North American population came from elsewhere.

Indigenous populations probably traveled over the land bridge though Alaska centuries ago. Likely European and Asian DNA.

I'd suggest calling Canadians " Canucks " could be called derogatory. Or Americans " Yanks " also. All depends on point of view. I'm ok with another Canadian calling me a Canuck. I wouldn't take it the same if an American called me that. Tone and intent as in all things come into play.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 04:05:02 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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TBURGESS
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2020, 03:57:20 PM »

How 'bout Washington Whiteskins or Caucasians.  Grin Maybe that will make up for the years of Redskins.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2020, 04:03:13 PM »

How 'bout Washington Whiteskins or Caucasians.  Grin Maybe that will make up for the years of Redskins.

As I mentioned before, Washington was a slave owner. Washington DC, Washington State and everything related to using his name could be considered a bad thing by some portion of the population. It's why there are people calling to change the name of Columbus Ohio.

It's why some are wanting to change the names of some military bases as well.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2020, 05:48:14 PM »

I am not going to wade into the debate so far as which names are appropriate and which are not. But I will state the obvious because it hasn't been said, those names are bad for business and sports thrive on sponsorship dollars. Nothing was going to make the Redskins change their name until FedEx and their millions asked them to. FedEx did so because they don't want to be associated with a name that might (will?) impact their brand image and ultimately bottom line. What's "morally" right never drove change on this issue but it's amazing how fast "smart business" is going to, though.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 05:53:04 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
Sec227
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2020, 05:51:27 PM »

I've never heard anywhere WHY they are called the eskimos to begin with? Is to Honour them? If so, then whats the fuss about?

 
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DM83
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2020, 06:26:42 PM »

If a. Name is a defamation of character, then the name should be changed.
As a. Kid visiting. Grand Forks the University of North Dakota made me, a Canadian feel proud and respectful.
The. Sioux fought for what they believed in, and defeated the mighty General. Custer and the Limitless American Army.

Wow! Those. Guys. Had to be. Tough, proud, resourceful talented people.  Naming your schools teams after such a superior fighting proud.group, certainly wasn't a. Racial slur!  My. gawd,  just the opposite.

I blame this all on CJOB.

The encouragement a small special interest groups, and the. Cowardice of those in power is the problem.

I thought the basic belief in Democracy is majority rules.  Many indigenous tribes use consensus as a method of determining choice, while other tribal societies determine a chief.  ( I don't think those work out too well)

Sure if you call a team a bunch of "screaming baunyawks"  some Ukrainians might find that offensive.
But in the case of the Eskimoes, how is that offensive?  Smart, survivalist, tough, persistent, hardy adaptable people. Again it's an honour to name your group after them.

If it's derogatory.  Address it.  If not honor it.
Redskins is a slur, change it.
Braves, Indians, Vikings, do not conjur up derogatory pictures, but ones of. Honor.

Go Bombers
Does that give a picture of smurfs flying a stealth B2?
Or prior to that the Winnipeg Winnipegs. What the heck would that be?
 
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