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Author Topic: How to make IGF safe?  (Read 1319 times)
bwiser
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« on: May 15, 2020, 07:16:43 PM »

If the CFL does play this season what do the Bombers need to do to make IGF safe for fans to attend? Some of my ideas would be to limit how many fans attend and all fans wear masks. There would have to be some control over too many people congregating in the concourse {no rum hut}. I think the tailgate would have to be discontinued. What other safeguards would you recommend?
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wpg#1
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 07:23:17 PM »

Start wearing green      Grin
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Donny C
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2020, 09:13:29 PM »

It's fun to think about there being a CFL season, and I hope there is...but it's a logistical nightmare!

And would they alienate their fans more than it would be worth?

If some type of social distancing protocols remain, only some fans will get to attend each game - and you have to assume the priority goes to season ticket holders. But not all could go to every game (figuring out how to space out season ticket holders alone would be tough).

What if it is your turn to go to the game, they check your temp and it is too high? Now you can't go to the game that was supposed to be allotted to you. How does that make you feel if you are feeling completely fine? (My wife has to take her temp every day before going into work and if you are over 38 Celcius - it might even be 37.5, you can't go in and must get tested).

Bathrooms would still have to be offered. Cleaning each stall after each person?

Then what about a home playoff game when many season ticket holders can't attend?

And the list just goes on.

I get that the thread was about what would you like to see, but I don't know how they would put in enough safeguards to actually make it work.
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bwiser
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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 01:06:00 AM »

It's fun to think about there being a CFL season, and I hope there is...but it's a logistical nightmare!

And would they alienate their fans more than it would be worth?

If some type of social distancing protocols remain, only some fans will get to attend each game - and you have to assume the priority goes to season ticket holders. But not all could go to every game (figuring out how to space out season ticket holders alone would be tough).

What if it is your turn to go to the game, they check your temp and it is too high? Now you can't go to the game that was supposed to be allotted to you. How does that make you feel if you are feeling completely fine? (My wife has to take her temp every day before going into work and if you are over 38 Celcius - it might even be 37.5, you can't go in and must get tested).

Bathrooms would still have to be offered. Cleaning each stall after each person?

Then what about a home playoff game when many season ticket holders can't attend?

And the list just goes on.

I get that the thread was about what would you like to see, but I don't know how they would put in enough safeguards to actually make it work.
I agree it would be a huge challenge but is there enough safeguards that could be put in place to actually hold a game with some fans and what would those safeguards be.
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the paw
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 01:15:48 AM »

Yes, there is a way to be safe.  There are 87 sections in IGF.  Place one fan in each section.  Charge them $10,000 each.

This is about as practical a plan as masks and positive thinking. 
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blue girl
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2020, 02:25:42 AM »

I agree it would be a huge challenge but is there enough safeguards that could be put in place to actually hold a game with some fans and what would those safeguards be.
Please don't let the negative people get you down. There is nothing wrong with trying to be positive. Of course there are things that can be done but it will require sacrifices. Do what they do at grocery stores and shopping centres. At the concessions either put up plastic shields and stickers for spacing on the floor or do as they've done at the food courts in shopping malls and close them. I'm not sure what to do about the washrooms but perhaps they can figure something out. As for controlling the crowd, again I would do like the shopping malls and use security guards. If people don't want to co-operate then throw them out. 
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2020, 04:01:41 AM »

Sure it could work.

Everyone wears a mask and it never comes off.  That would curb most of the risk.  Absolutely no concessions, no food, no drinks.  Impossible to eat/drink with a mask and it encourages face touching and hand-to-food contamination.  Myself, I wouldn't eat/drink handled food anyhow even if it was available.

So the question becomes... if you have the gate revenue, is it enough??  Can they even break even without concessions?

Bathrooms are fine as long as you're wearing a mask (and goggles would help too) and you wash your hands.  It can't go through your skin: it has to go into your mucous membranes (nose, throat, eyes, etc.).

It can be done.  There would be risk, but it would be small.  People would evaluate their own risk factors.  I would expect a lot of the over-70 crowd to stay home.  That's a lot of fans!!

I also choose to be optimistic.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2020, 09:33:53 AM »

During TV time outs they have that game where two people are in those plastic balls and they race. Everyone could be in a bubble ball and roll throughout IGF.

#positivethinking
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2020, 12:51:57 PM »

2 meters apart means at least 2 seats between each group of people who live at the same address and every other row being empty. That in itself means less than a third of the capacity of the stadium for fans. They'd also have to have a ton of security to stop people from moving from their assigned seats to go visit or to get better seats.

No food. Line ups for the washrooms at 2 meters apart would go around the concourse and take about an hour to get into the washroom itself. Then they'd have to clean between each user.

Masks are part of the answer, but only N95's provide enough safety for large gatherings for a long exposure time. Using those for a sporting event is a huge waste of resources that simply wouldn't happen. Data shows that cloth masks mostly make people feel safer, they don't provide a lot of protection especially for long periods of time like a football game. Cloth masks are basically good enough if you don't have an N95 to pass people in the grocery store or on the street.

It's not about being positive or negative. It's about following the data. Unfortunately, the politicians don't have to follow the data.
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gordo
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2020, 10:58:18 PM »

Put Bomber-for-Life Season ticket holders in every 3rd row, 3 seats apart, with masks and gloves. No concessions.

One at a time in bathrooms (no beer=no pee).

Strictly enforce social distancing.  Break a rule, get ejected immediately.

Pay per view at 10 bucks a game for everyone else in the province.

Now let's play.
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Donny C
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 12:24:14 AM »

The Bombers make a bunch of money off the concession stands (I believe in the way fo rent. Those independent & chain stands (from my understanding) no not make money but are a way to get their product to market for the customer to try. That is why each of them (if not all of them have other locations outside of the stadium.
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Donny C
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 12:28:56 AM »

Put Bomber-for-Life Season ticket holders in every 3rd row, 3 seats apart, with masks and gloves. No concessions.

One at a time in bathrooms (no beer=no pee).

Strictly enforce social distancing.  Break a rule, get ejected immediately.

Pay per view at 10 bucks a game for everyone else in the province.

Now let's play.

How would that go over with Bomber for Life holders? They could not sit in their normal seat (many of them) and they could not sit with those they hold tickets with.

How would that work with the larger season ticket base? It could be a very quick way to alienate the season ticket base. "Sorry, you don't get to come to the games and you have to pay $10 to watch."

I get it. We would love to see a season. And maybe there is a creative idea out there that would work. I don't think we have seen it yet, and neither have other sports leagues.
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New_Earth_Mud
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 12:56:16 AM »

Sure it could work.

Everyone wears a mask and it never comes off.  That would curb most of the risk.  Absolutely no concessions, no food, no drinks.  Impossible to eat/drink with a mask and it encourages face touching and hand-to-food contamination.  Myself, I wouldn't eat/drink handled food anyhow even if it was available.

So the question becomes... if you have the gate revenue, is it enough??  Can they even break even without concessions?

Bathrooms are fine as long as you're wearing a mask (and goggles would help too) and you wash your hands.  It can't go through your skin: it has to go into your mucous membranes (nose, throat, eyes, etc.).

It can be done.  There would be risk, but it would be small.  People would evaluate their own risk factors.  I would expect a lot of the over-70 crowd to stay home.  That's a lot of fans!!

I also choose to be optimistic.




No

I have COPD.   You will not come near me.

I dont give a **** if you want to go see Games. I have issues with ppl putting me at risk...

I dont want to be sick and im sry i have COPD   ....  I dont want to die .
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 01:08:45 AM by New_Earth_Mud » Logged

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gordo
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2020, 03:17:49 AM »

How would that go over with Bomber for Life holders? They could not sit in their normal seat (many of them) and they could not sit with those they hold tickets with.

How would that work with the larger season ticket base? It could be a very quick way to alienate the season ticket base. "Sorry, you don't get to come to the games and you have to pay $10 to watch."

I get it. We would love to see a season. And maybe there is a creative idea out there that would work. I don't think we have seen it yet, and neither have other sports leagues.
How would that go over with Bomber for Life holders? 
You mean if there is actually a season with CFL football games that they could attend?  I think they and everyone else would be thankful and very happy that the CFL didn't die. 

And if you told me there would be Bomber football within the next 12 months but I can't get in however it will be available on pay per view, I'd be one happy Bomber fan.

If charging to watch Bomber games will alienate folks then I guess they're not really fans. 

I have Bomber for Life Season tickets and I will continue to pay and really don't care what format is rolled out for a possible season as long as there is one. Sure Ambrosie fumbled the details, but the reality is the CFL is in real financial trouble and survival will require some sort of revenue that can only happen with games played or a government bail-out or probably a combination of the two. 

I also get it that any in-person format just doesn't work for some and I would be just as happy with games with no fans but there has to be some sort of payment because with no revenue there's no league.
 
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2020, 04:52:56 AM »

No

I have COPD.   You will not come near me.

I dont give a **** if you want to go see Games. I have issues with ppl putting me at risk...

I dont want to be sick and im sry i have COPD   ....  I dont want to die .

Holy smokes Mud... Literally 6 posts above mine saying basically the same thing (masks, distancing, washrooms) and you jump all over my post?  Seriously Mud, how many times have I jumped all over your posts and even come close to using a word that the site automatically bleeped?  I'll tell you: never.

Like the people above already said, we're trying to be positive.  If you don't want to posit positive ideas about how maybe we can still have a season, don't post.  There's the other thread  for all the negativeness.

As for your condition and risks, I have the simplest solution in the world for you if they hold some sort of CFL game @IGF: don't attend.  There, zero risk.

And if you told me there would be Bomber football within the next 12 months but I can't get in however it will be available on pay per view, I'd be one happy Bomber fan.

Bingo.  I totally agree.  That would be a "win" in my books.  I'd pay basically any fee they came up with if CFL went 100% PPV for 2020.  I blow about $150 every single game @IGF anyhow, so any cost less than that is bonus.  Heck, PPV-only will save me more because then I won't be able to blow wads on out of town playoffs/GCs!!
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blue girl
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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2020, 05:00:01 AM »

Now that I think about it between 50/50 tickets and concessions I spend $40 at every game. So if they want to go PPV count me in.
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New_Earth_Mud
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2020, 06:44:06 PM »

Holy smokes Mud... Literally 6 posts above mine saying basically the same thing (masks, distancing, washrooms) and you jump all over my post?  Seriously Mud, how many times have I jumped all over your posts and even come close to using a word that the site automatically bleeped?  I'll tell you: never.

Like the people above already said, we're trying to be positive.  If you don't want to posit positive ideas about how maybe we can still have a season, don't post.  There's the other thread  for all the negativeness.

As for your condition and risks, I have the simplest solution in the world for you if they hold some sort of CFL game @IGF: don't attend.  There, zero risk.

Bingo.  I totally agree.  That would be a "win" in my books.  I'd pay basically any fee they came up with if CFL went 100% PPV for 2020.  I blow about $150 every single game @IGF anyhow, so any cost less than that is bonus.  Heck, PPV-only will save me more because then I won't be able to blow wads on out of town playoffs/GCs!!




Sorry dude i didnt mean to jump all over you. I just dont see how all this could work.

We have had stores here open then have to close because ppl dont follow the rules. IGF would be a nightmare IMO.

Trust me dude....  i want football as bad as anyone....  just dont see how it would work.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2020, 07:00:56 PM »

I can't see any mass public gatherings until there is a viable treatment for COVID.  Something that prevents people from needing hospitalization in the vast majority of cases, and reduces the ICU / ventilator need as well.  When they find a pill that reduces those numbers, and makes getting infected have a similar mortality to the flu, then society opens up.  

And people with underlying conditions go deep into quarantine.  

If they come up with an effective vaccine, even better, but the likelihood of a treatment is a lot higher than a vaccine.

Places like IGF add in another factor, while crowds might be able to utilize PPE and social distancing, those go out the window with alcohol consumption... if they do open to limited crowds, I can see it being dry, or in a very limited fashion with consumption procedures, with strict penalties for non compliance.

Until one of those happens, no crowds.  Now, if the CFL gets bailout money from the feds, then they can play without crowds.  And without PPV.  

But they can get back to playing...

Testing will be the main issue with playing, teams, staff, officials all need testing pregame with a rapid test.  And American players will need to be quarantined before reporting to training camp, in Canada due to travel exposure.  Not optimal, but not undoable...

The one issue is that if a player gets infected, the whole league has to shut down for 14 days, and if a star player gets it, that team will be in trouble, losing a star for a period of recovery time is tough... added on to all the other reasons players miss games...
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2020, 09:39:41 PM »

PPV could work. I?m all in for that.
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2020, 11:09:41 PM »

Im in for reduced crowds and pay per view. I have seasons but willing to sit games out and watch pay per view.. Id also be in for ppv for other teams games in the league. Any game If you sit out gets credited to pay per view.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 11:11:44 PM by buckzumhoff » Logged
bluegold4life
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« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2020, 06:42:39 AM »

PPV and NO FANS is the ONLY WAY this would work.
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DM83
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« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2020, 10:57:07 AM »

I took a psychology course at university. Matter of fact it's Officially designated one of my minors. One of the topics they gave us was mass hysteria. Anither was Grouo Think.  The example for group think was. The Cuban missile,crisis.  Almost all,of Kennedy's advisors said  go blow up,Cuba. They had Nukes.  Common belief was it would result in mutually assured mass destruction, with USSR coming in on the side of Cube, and their nukes taking out the USA.

So, I always think back to these. Concepts.

Regarding the Carona. Virus in Manitoba,and perhaps Canada or the world.
In reality, how many people in Manitoba have the infectious virus?
And how does opening now, differ from opening in the Fall? Will,we all be. Better?  Will there be less infected?

Well, everyone. Who works in the Stadium and.would be tested.
Secondly, all,fans who go,to the game would also be tested.
Third all people would be registered, as they enter.  (Testing I have heard, could give results in a day or two.)
Fourth once results were attained, a card would be issued. I heard a test could cost $20.00/ person.  Just like a ticket increase for Jets playoff games?
Fifth, the registration could allow for subsequent contacts tracking..
Sixth no masks, unless you think you are a germ machine.
Seventh, social. Distancing could be attempted, but probably not a reality.  But if everyone has been tested, no need for it

So no walk ups, no test, no entry,

Eighth, TSN and The CFL already have a contract so pay per view is out.
However, if the CFL can prove increased memberships as people, are not interested in attending, proving viewership increased( if it does),  could result in a higher mext contract.  Thereby, helping de-coop some of the losses?

As usual we will be asked to pick up the cost of this pandemic.  I assume. pST and GST will be increased, or some other tax.

My two cents
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Sec223
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2020, 11:23:42 AM »

I pay for NFL Sunday Ticket every year to follow one team (Titans). Having said that I would pay for a Bomber package if I couldn't go to games. 10 bucks a game ? $180. I'm in !!!
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2020, 12:54:49 PM »

$10 PPV is a ridiculous number. Lets say the average ticket price is $100 then you add in food, drinks, 50-50 tickets, maybe parking and a trip to the Bomber store and you get another $100 per game. That's that's 10 to 20 times the 10$ PPV price and I doubt that 10 to 20 times more people would buy the PPV ticket to get the Bombers to an even position.

TSN, their advertiser's and the CFL want more eyes on the game, not less and PPV would mean less folks watching.

DM83.. We don't know how many people have had the virus because testing has been spotty at best and it looks like you can contract the disease more than once.

Testing isn't the answer. A single test shows you didn't have the virus on the day you were tested, but it doesn't mean you won't contract it after that date, so a card wouldn't work. Testing on the way in then finding out 2 days later wouldn't work either as a couple of people could infect everyone, especially if you don't need to have a mask on. All those people would have to be re-tested and the people they contacted re-tested and so on.

Manitoba and Saskatchewan have done well in part because they have small populations and in part because they haven't brought the virus in via the airport. Look at the difference in the number of cases between Calgary (4500+ cases), an airport that accepted international flights, and Edmonton (500+ Cases) that didn't.

I get that folks, especially around here, want football this summer, but if it means killing folks parents and grandparents, then it really isn't worth it.

My 2 cents.
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DM83
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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2020, 01:51:59 PM »

TBURGESS I can't disagree with you.   

Well maybe I can.  My suggestions are not without a possibility of failure.  Certainly anyone can get it after testing.  However, in the majority, most. Manitobans. Do not have it.  Secondly, most Manitobans. Fight it off successfully.

Also face the facts. The. Group think mentality and mass hysteria I alluded to earlier has been popularized, to sway the worlds, or Canada's. Or Manitobas population.m wear a mask to,prevent getting tired??? You mean that little. Colton hanky most people. Have around their nose and mouth works?  Really?

Face the facts.  All the safe distance and stay at home, sounds. Good.  Of course. Every retailer, and makers of the economy will become. Bankrupt.  Even in the. Great Depression people still,worked.  Society, as you have see. Can't shut down. 

So sure stay at home slowed this thing down.  However will a vaccine or antidote be found bynthentime the kids. Go back to school, or next hockey season rolls around?  Mass hysteria says sure, 27 companies. Are working in it. In normal testing this s out of scientific testing tales a couple years.  Our friend. Donald Trump says the best minds in America  are working on it, and. May have something for the Fall.

Historically, not likely.  But who knows.

No, social distancing, may. Come to an end. Tomorrow, or whenever you believe test results and when the stats are released of the new lack of new Cases.

All guess work on my part.  Yup we will be going back to school, without a. Vaccine, social distancing. That's. Going to be interesting. A school room which was home to 33 kids, now. Down to 15ish....where do they put the other ones.  Social distancing?? Pffffttt!

So again the point is, what will Pallister tell us?  What will citizens of Winnipeg do? I am not sure the social distancing will be enforced, or can be enforced.

Like ancient. Times, people. Just lived through it. Surely if you  have a cough,stay home.  But that's been the philosophy. Forever.  Now ...old people , or those with troubled immune systems etc, are in danger.  Get those **** old age personal. Care homes cleaned. Up.  What the hell are they doing, or not doing in Quebec.?

There will be nithing different in the fall than right now, in terms of antidotes and vaccines.  Are. We just going to rely on. Our bodies. Just developing antibodies in their own?

Well if that's the case, society will have to maintain social distancing for the next six or more months, until that vaccine is made available, or everyone develops immunity.a

My suggestion of testing, if reports are true that an immediate test is available, easy to do, and results are relatively immediate would " ensure" the. Guy sitting next to you is Unaffected.  The tracking portion of. The idea,would allow someone to. Trace. Your contacts. Should you become infected.

But again the points. You have countered With, can occur.  However, not every condition can be  accounted for, so the minuscule percentage that might be undetected, may slip through.  But that is like many situations that already exist in life..

Again just. Some ideas. In my oart.  If the testing is unavailable, i tend  to agree with you.  No fans..
Selling tickets. Every three seats and a row in between.  But still why take a chance when you can be safe at home.

Pay per view would be. Good, if the CFL can break the contract.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2020, 02:26:27 PM »

We're talking about the whole CFL, not just Winnipeg.

The major outbreaks in Canada are in Quebec, Ontario and BC. The CFL can't play a season without Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, Vancouver and maybe even Calgary. Flights in from those places will increase the risk and the cases in Manitoba. Sending players to those places will increase the risk to the players.

The facts are that this virus, even with low testing numbers, has already has over 4.7 Million cases world wide, 1.52 Million in the US and 77,000 cases in Canada. That's not group think or mass hysteria. It's millions of cases of a virus that we don't have a vaccine or a treatment for. Yes, lots of smart folks are working on both, but they won't have a solution ready for this summer and may never have one. This is real life, not the movies where a vaccine is found by the 3rd act and everything is OK in under 2 hours.

Cases going down is great. Opening up the economy is also great if done properly. If it's done too soon or without the proper rules in place, it will mean a second wave and even 3rd wave of the pandemic. Note that in the 1918 pandemic the 2nd wave and the 3rd wave were both significantly more deadly than the first wave.

It's not a minuscule chance that people will get infected in large crowds. The bigger the crowd the higher the chance of getting or giving the disease. Most outbreaks get traced back to lots of folks together in one place. That's one big reason that 82% of the deaths, as announced in early May, are from long term care homes. The other reason is those folks are already old or weak or compromised in some way so they can't fight the virus the way younger, healthier people can.

Social distancing is the new norm unless they find a vaccine and make it mandatory, because that's the only way to get herd immunity without killing off the old and weak among us.
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DM83
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2020, 04:44:16 PM »

Great points TBURGESS I have zero,to counter.

Your points are sobering. 

If not bleak. I do fear that this pandemic will once again blow up the numbers, as you alluded to. I do not want to think about a world with no CFL, or NHL.  How soon before Pay per view is instituted?  The same thing with shopping and dining. Can you imagine no more dining and bars?  Shopping on line? Remember the days in them 1970s when you went to the MLCC and you wrote out your order on paper, and. Some guy behind the counter went and got it.  Social interaction in a downtown business setting will be non-existant?

Will,sports be like a scripted TV  show?  LeBron, John Cena and the Rock are already hosting made for TV sports.?

You made some great points.however,  how come. Eiropean soccer. Leagues, and Major League. baseball are not cimcerned about social,distancing among players congregating at stadiums.

A similar, yet different question ..how. Can a poor organization, like the Bombers remain in business?

Hey Chip, can we borrow a couple. Million"
Or. How about the guy who owns the WWE or F OR whatever they are called, buy the CFL, produce games like the wrestling.?

Will we go away?
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gordo
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2020, 11:31:25 PM »

$10 PPV is a ridiculous number. Lets say the average ticket price is $100 then you add in food, drinks, 50-50 tickets, maybe parking and a trip to the Bomber store and you get another $100 per game. That's that's 10 to 20 times the 10$ PPV price and I doubt that 10 to 20 times more people would buy the PPV ticket to get the Bombers to an even position.

TSN, their advertiser's and the CFL want more eyes on the game, not less and PPV would mean less folks watching.



I agree that $10 PPV is probably too low but higher PPV means less eyes on the game which you also point out is an issue.  You can't have it both ways. 

The reality is there is no solution that will solve everything.  The best that can happen is some semblance of a season with enough revenue to justify the cost of playing games.  So if it means empty stadiums with some form of PPV then at least the league can try to survive this and we the fans get some needed Bomber football. 

Unless of course the fed rides to the rescue with our tax dollars.  Then it's game on.

I also tend to agree that any attempt to put people in the stands will be a nightmare and I'd be out.  The only revenue generating alternative is PPV or another type of TV deal that generates more dollars for CFL teams.  I'm no expert but logistics with multiple service providers might be tough.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2020, 05:12:10 AM »

I agree that $10 PPV is probably too low but higher PPV means less eyes on the game which you also point out is an issue.  You can't have it both ways. 

The reality is there is no solution that will solve everything.  The best that can happen is some semblance of a season with enough revenue to justify the cost of playing games.  So if it means empty stadiums with some form of PPV then at least the league can try to survive this and we the fans get some needed Bomber football. 

Unless of course the fed rides to the rescue with our tax dollars.  Then it's game on.

I also tend to agree that any attempt to put people in the stands will be a nightmare and I'd be out.  The only revenue generating alternative is PPV or another type of TV deal that generates more dollars for CFL teams.  I'm no expert but logistics with multiple service providers might be tough.

TSN pays the league $50 million a year for domestic TV rights, that's a good chunk of the CFL's operating budget financed by subscriptions and advertising revenue generated by TSN, don't mess with it.  There's no way PPV is going to generate anywhere near that amount of revenue per game for the league with a small fraction of the viewers.  If they can figure out a way to play and televise games (with or without a crowd) I believe the TV audience may increase significantly as most sports fans are starved for live entertainment and will watch almost anything.  Even playing half a season for $25 million could be enough to float the CFL through to next season aided by some level of govt. assistance.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 05:20:47 AM by Throw Long Bannatyne » Logged
bwiser
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« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2020, 02:44:33 PM »

TSN pays the league $50 million a year for domestic TV rights, that's a good chunk of the CFL's operating budget financed by subscriptions and advertising revenue generated by TSN, don't mess with it.  There's no way PPV is going to generate anywhere near that amount of revenue per game for the league with a small fraction of the viewers.  If they can figure out a way to play and televise games (with or without a crowd) I believe the TV audience may increase significantly as most sports fans are starved for live entertainment and will watch almost anything.  Even playing half a season for $25 million could be enough to float the CFL through to next season aided by some level of govt. assistance.
Your point is well taken. This 2020 season is not about the CFL making money but about surviving to play in 2021.I think every team is going to lose a lot of money in 2020. Lets just hope the loss is not too large that its insurmountable.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2020, 03:39:16 PM »

We are not going to see crowds in stands this year.  Sorry.  No way to make any mass attendance facility "safe".  
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« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2020, 04:25:06 PM »

We are not going to see crowds in stands this year.  Sorry.  No way to make any mass attendance facility "safe".  

Governments aren't going to allow mass gatherings any where close to this season.

We're up to gatherings of ten people that are allowed?
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the paw
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« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2020, 06:11:24 PM »

Imaginary conversation between a contact tracer and an infected season ticket holder.

Tracer:  I am sorry to tell you Mr. Smith, that your COVID test came back infected.  Even though you only feel mildly sick, we need to trace your contacts to try to limit the spread.

STH:  Bummer.  But i am a good citizen, sure, I'll cooperate.

Tracer:  Where have you been in the last two weeks?

STH:  Well, this week, I visited Mom, and I got by winter tires changed over at Canadian Tire.

Tracer:  Okay, no problem, we'll quarantine your Mom, and get in touch with Canadian Tire so the employees at that store can get tested.  How about the week before?

STH:  Well, I rode a standing room only bus with 60 people to IGF and hung out with 23,000 screaming fans for three and a half hours.  A lot of them were drunk.

Tracer:...........[slash wrists]
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DM83
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« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2020, 12:37:26 AM »

Yup, but then again that would apply to anywhere in society wouldn'tmit.
.

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theaardvark
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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2020, 11:17:22 AM »

The revelation that a Walmart worker tested positive recently, and they posted when that person was in the store... can you imagine after a game at IGF?
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lenny
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« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2020, 07:43:08 PM »

It's ridiculous to consider fans back in stadiums. That's a risk that no one should assume or allow. The downside of possible huge legal consequences of infection let alone the health consequences -  It's not about being negative. It's about being realistic. We shouldn't be posting pie-in the-sky stuff.

On a more positive front and more realistic assuming all the other issues about quarantining the non-national players for the stipulated period, the risks of employees who are over 65, who have immune compromised issues, etc. etc. can be resolved, I also would pay on a pay per view basis for the  remaining season. This is not an unrealistic proposition either from TSN's perspective or as what strategically can be done absent vaccination.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2020, 08:07:10 PM »

This is not an unrealistic proposition either from TSN's perspective or as what strategically can be done absent vaccination.

I'm failing to understand how it's not unrealistic from TSN's perspective?  TSN already pays to air the games, and they in turn get revenue from advertisers during the games and from the cable package options which include TSN3 and 5 (or whatever channels the games are on).  So for TSN to say "Let's go PPV instead", they're likely going to drive down their viewership levels and if it's PPV, they're not going to get the ad revenue I would assume.  So either they don't pay the CFL to air the games (in which case that's a $5M hit to each teams bottom line) or they pay them a portion of the PPV revenue. 

For the CFL to generate $50M in equivalent revenue (let's assume for the time being that TSN doesn't pro rate the season, best case scenario for the CFL) from a portion of the TSN PPV revenue on a (let's say) 40 game shortened season, they'd have to pull in $1.25M per game.  Average CFL viewership per game is somewhere in the 500,000 range, so if you assumed that each one of those people (as individuals, no groups) ALL decided to go with PPV (which won't happen, I'd be surprised if half elected to go PPV), the CFL would have to clear at a minimum $2.50 per PPV buy just to match TSNs existing commitment, but more likely $5.00 per viewer.

TSN would charge a multiple of that in order to cover their costs, their lost add revenue (I'm assuming everyone who pays for the PPV does not want to see 40 minutes of Bel Air direct commercials), and make a profit.  So let's say, for discussion sake, that TSN determines that their multiplier for the PPV (per game) is 4X what the CFL would have to pull to get the equivalent money out of the existing TSN deal.  So that puts you at (low end) $10 per game and more likely $20.  Four games a week and that's $80 a week on PPV.  I love the CFL, but I'm not paying $300 a month to watch it when I already pay for TSN to begin with.  In fact, I'd likely cancel my TSN subscription, because CFL football is the predominant reason I have TSN.  That, and AEW wrestling, and I can watch that on YouTube 40 minutes after the broadcast for free.

TSN would be in a far better position to actually NOT want a PPV setup, because if (and it's a big if) the CFL plays any games this year, it will likely be the first pro sports league back into operation which TSN has contracts with and the viewership would likely increase over the average number, simply because it's not reruns and the viewing fan base might actually grow.  Now, I don't know how revenues are calculated, but I'm assuming increased viewership rates = increased buy rates for ads next season, which means TSNs revenues from the CFL would likely increase in subsequent seasons.
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DM83
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« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2020, 09:40:16 PM »

TSN and The CFL ...well the CFL has to think of additional revenue sources.
If not, and the mass hysteria promoted by society continues, it will kill the league.

Many in society will have to. Suck it up, take the losses, and  fight, to continue
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buckzumhoff
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« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2020, 11:51:16 PM »

 How many people walk thru a walmart in a day. That's what 150 cars there all the time from what 8 am to 10 pm  and some are open  24 hours regular hours. Theres 4 Walmart's in winnipeg? And people are worried about a game 3 hrs long with social distancing. But they'll go walk thru a store with a mask on or off touching items and  stand in line  Obviously if it isn't affecting their bottom line some dont have a problem shutting down sports. But the airlines keep flying.  Apparently the us govt is tryingto get numbers to give them money. . And they profit every year . But one bad year they need a bailout.all the large  companies are getting bailouts something like 70 per cent of what they normally make
 I'm not sure on the figures but I think they all qualified unless they were too small a business. But they bailed out the big companies. I say reduced crowds and if they  want testing that's fine too. As long as they get ppv  should be ok.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:55:36 PM by buckzumhoff » Logged
DM83
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« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2020, 12:20:52 AM »

It still,doesn't make sense.
Your point about A. Walmart is interesting.
Social distancing.  Ok. So at IGF sell every second seat.
Minimal. Contact less than two metres is said to be. oK, so passing through a "crowd" on the way to the concession or seat ad hears to the rules.

So, how is that different being at Sobeys or Walmart.
Now, I suggested crowd testing.  If. Done should be  allowed in should be clean.

I mean that's what the leagues are doing to the players.....they are tested and should be OK. Sure someone.  Can be positive, as. Was just announced for the soccer league, or MMA.  But ,  everyone else survived healthy.

The cities can't stay closed, society will fall apart.
Now do we need. the CFL or the Jets?  Nope ...unless you would be willing to see them disappear.

It's a matter of acceptable risk, until the. Vaccine arrives...which according to some. Reports is being tested. Right now.

I bet it's sooner than later...at least in places like MB. With such low numbers of the. Virus.
NYC, , Quebec, Brazil......the numbers are too high. They are done.
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NewBlue
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« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2020, 12:51:47 AM »

Close down the social gatherings around the rum hut, and it looks alot better.
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blue girl
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« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2020, 02:19:56 AM »

I took the online test to see if I should get tested, which is the same questions they ask when you go to a hospital. The thing is that if people are honest they will stay home if they feel sick. Unfortunately it's the few selfish ones (certainly not anybody on here) that will ruin it for everyone else.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2020, 12:36:09 PM »

How many people walk thru a walmart in a day. That's what 150 cars there all the time from what 8 am to 10 pm  and some are open  24 hours regular hours. Theres 4 Walmart's in winnipeg? And people are worried about a game 3 hrs long with social distancing. But they'll go walk thru a store with a mask on or off touching items and  stand in line 

Stores like Wal-Mart, Costco, etc. sell essential goods to the public. There's a need for them to be open and provide those goods at a time like this. Yes, there's a risk involved but it's about balancing public safety and health with public need.

Spending a few hours at a stadium with thousands of others does not qualify as a public need at all.

Comparing a live football game to a store selling essential goods is absurd.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2020, 01:31:44 PM »

Every second seat is 2 feet apart, not 6 feet. Change that to 3 seats between each group of people from the same address and add in every second row to maintain social distancing. That's less than a third of capacity.

No booze and no concessions because of the lineups required. Almost impossible to maintain social distancing in that environment.

In grocery stores, you pass someone in the aisle, you don't sit down with them for 3 - 4 hours.

You can't test the whole crowd and get the tests back before game time. Best you can do it make them fill out a questionnaire, which isn't to provide safety, it's to provide the club with a document to point to if people get sick so they don't get sued.

Vaccine testing, if they've even found the right one yet, takes months to years. I doubt we will have one this year, maybe next year.

Playing in MB and SKN and not playing in BC, Ont, QB and probably Calgary doesn't work. Just cuz MB has low counts now doesn't mean that will continue once you open up and let folks in from all over the US and Canada.
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lenny
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« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2020, 05:12:56 PM »

I'm failing to understand how it's not unrealistic from TSN's perspective?  TSN already pays to air the games, and they in turn get revenue from advertisers during the games and from the cable package options which include TSN3 and 5 (or whatever channels the games are on).  So for TSN to say "Let's go PPV instead", they're likely going to drive down their viewership levels and if it's PPV, they're not going to get the ad revenue I would assume.  So either they don't pay the CFL to air the games (in which case that's a $5M hit to each teams bottom line) or they pay them a portion of the PPV revenue. 

For the CFL to generate $50M in equivalent revenue (let's assume for the time being that TSN doesn't pro rate the season, best case scenario for the CFL) from a portion of the TSN PPV revenue on a (let's say) 40 game shortened season, they'd have to pull in $1.25M per game.  Average CFL viewership per game is somewhere in the 500,000 range, so if you assumed that each one of those people (as individuals, no groups) ALL decided to go with PPV (which won't happen, I'd be surprised if half elected to go PPV), the CFL would have to clear at a minimum $2.50 per PPV buy just to match TSNs existing commitment, but more likely $5.00 per viewer.

TSN would charge a multiple of that in order to cover their costs, their lost add revenue (I'm assuming everyone who pays for the PPV does not want to see 40 minutes of Bel Air direct commercials), and make a profit.  So let's say, for discussion sake, that TSN determines that their multiplier for the PPV (per game) is 4X what the CFL would have to pull to get the equivalent money out of the existing TSN deal.  So that puts you at (low end) $10 per game and more likely $20.  Four games a week and that's $80 a week on PPV.  I love the CFL, but I'm not paying $300 a month to watch it when I already pay for TSN to begin with.  In fact, I'd likely cancel my TSN subscription, because CFL football is the predominant reason I have TSN.  That, and AEW wrestling, and I can watch that on YouTube 40 minutes after the broadcast for free.

TSN would be in a far better position to actually NOT want a PPV setup, because if (and it's a big if) the CFL plays any games this year, it will likely be the first pro sports league back into operation which TSN has contracts with and the viewership would likely increase over the average number, simply because it's not reruns and the viewing fan base might actually grow.  Now, I don't know how revenues are calculated, but I'm assuming increased viewership rates = increased buy rates for ads next season, which means TSNs revenues from the CFL would likely increase in subsequent seasons.

This is not an all or nothing proposition.TSN could run ads and make it PPV. Then the spot ads have a captive audience. Further, TSN could black out home games only, as an example, run a PPV and targeted ads, with  significant revenue from those games going directly to the home team to aid them in their financial situation. The incentive to those who cheer for their team would be to obviously encourage buying the package to help team revenue. You understand therefore that this a rather extraordinary step only in extraordinary times.
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Sec227
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« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2020, 01:52:26 PM »

Is it plausible, the only way to make it safe. Is to ONLY let season ticket holders to game? That might get you close to the 50% capacity. Holds 33,500 half is 16,750. I bet there cant be more than 19k of them. NOT all of them go to the game. I get the $$$ wont be the same for the club. But, its still $$ of some sort.

I don't know about who would sit where seating or that disaster. And the concession lines can be marked out on the floor like Walmart/ 6ft part etc. Close rum hut. Masks must be worn. Theres ways to kind of make some things work. If the province opens the casinos, you have to figure Club Regent packed. All tables and slots going, events. Has to be close to 10,000 capacity. If they allow that, they should be able to come up with a plan fo IG.

But, If the borders still shut. Doesn't really matter...



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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2020, 02:32:29 PM »

There's apparently a provision to allow non-residents/temporary residents into Canada for the purposes of work or study at this time - with the priority being essential travel. How this would apply to pro athletes in the event their work here resumes remains to be seen. These individuals would be subject to testing upon entry and a mandatory 14-day self isolation period.

This is but one hurdle in a sequence of many to get a CFL season going in 2020 (capacity restrictions are another major one, IMO - especially in tighter confines such as a stadium). I have absolutely no idea on how viable any of this is, though.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2020, 03:23:54 PM »

This is not an all or nothing proposition.TSN could run ads and make it PPV. Then the spot ads have a captive audience. Further, TSN could black out home games only, as an example, run a PPV and targeted ads, with  significant revenue from those games going directly to the home team to aid them in their financial situation. The incentive to those who cheer for their team would be to obviously encourage buying the package to help team revenue. You understand therefore that this a rather extraordinary step only in extraordinary times.

Many cable companies offer TSN as part of their package. They can't now change it to PPV or black out local games. Their are individual station packages that are PPV now for hockey and NFL which broadcast games not on network already. However, that is a different idea than the change you suggest.

CFL teams already get money from TSN to broadcast all games including local games.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2020, 11:59:29 PM »

it's very easy for TSN to black out games. Then fans will be force to purchases the games they want to see.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #49 on: Today at 05:11:32 AM »

I don't know about who would sit where seating or that disaster. And the concession lines can be marked out on the floor like Walmart/ 6ft part etc. Close rum hut. Masks must be worn.

You can't have concessions + masks.  It's impossible.  Masks are useless, in fact worse than useless, if you are lifting them constantly to take a drink.  You end up touching around your face more with masks than without.  (To be clear, masks are great, but not in conjunction with oral consumption!)

I still think you go mandatory masks, and zero concessions.  The effectiveness of masks are amplified when everyone is wearing one.  Then almost no large aerosols get into the air.  It stops them getting out, and getting in.  A mass infection incident would basically be impossible, and everyone's individual risk drops substantially.  If you're older or want to be super safe, wear goggles too.

In fact, it was in one of last week's sports-Bomber-shows that (I think) WM said every STH gets a free mask with their ST package this year.  They already ordered them.  Done deal.  So obviously the WFC thinks that might be a way forward and it's not just Tecno talking out his butt.

So my question earlier remains (that no one answered): can IGF turn a profit with zero concessions?  Is the gate (assuming we don't have to distance too much) enough?  If they can at least break even, sounds good to me.
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the paw
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« Reply #50 on: Today at 01:40:35 PM »

You can't have concessions + masks.  It's impossible.  Masks are useless, in fact worse than useless, if you are lifting them constantly to take a drink.  You end up touching around your face more with masks than without.  (To be clear, masks are great, but not in conjunction with oral consumption!)

I still think you go mandatory masks, and zero concessions.  The effectiveness of masks are amplified when everyone is wearing one.  Then almost no large aerosols get into the air.  It stops them getting out, and getting in.  A mass infection incident would basically be impossible, and everyone's individual risk drops substantially.  If you're older or want to be super safe, wear goggles too.

In fact, it was in one of last week's sports-Bomber-shows that (I think) WM said every STH gets a free mask with their ST package this year.  They already ordered them.  Done deal.  So obviously the WFC thinks that might be a way forward and it's not just Tecno talking out his butt.

So my question earlier remains (that no one answered): can IGF turn a profit with zero concessions?  Is the gate (assuming we don't have to distance too much) enough?  If they can at least break even, sounds good to me.


With the exception of your observation that concessions are a no-go with masks, you are engaging in magical thinking (which can be said for this whole thread).  To wit:

1. You cannot achieve 100% compliance with fans wearing masks.  Walking around the street and grocery store right now, less than 10% of people are wearing masks.  Of those that do, maybe a quarter of them pull the mask off to stop and talk to a friend they meet.  They think that because they know and like the person, they are less risky than a stranger.  Illogical, but you can see it if you watch.  So a mass infection incident is not "basically impossible".

2.  People will smuggle in booze, people will smuggle in water, it's just how people are.  Maybe not most, but enough to compromise your sterile bubble. 

3.  When you advise the older people who want to be "super safe" to wear googles, you are failing to recognize the pattern of infection spread. Me wearing googles at the game doesn't protect the grandmother, cancer patient or other compromised person who may subsequently come into contact with the 20 year old fan who thinks they are bullet proof to this thing.  If the risk of infection was only there for attendees, I would gladly let people make their choices and suffer the consequences.  But that's not how it works.

4.  Multiple team presidents (Als, Ticats, Argos) have now come out with rule of thumb estimates for capacity under a social distancing formula.  It tends to run in the 5000 to 7000 range.  That almost certainly does not cover the costs of opening up and staffing the facility, much less any extra staffing related to taking temperatures, disinfecting, monitoring compliance.  Even if govt $ are there for subsidy, it makes more economic sense to play without fans. 

5.  Mass attendance events remain the highest risk, and are going to be the last thing to come back.  The nature of the sport is secondary.

6.  If we see any football this year, it will probably be (a) govt subsidized, and (b) played in empty stadiums.   The league may be able to stickhandle through the player safety issues, and travel restrictions may be sufficiently loosened.  But there is, IMHO, no safe scenario for several thousand fans to be congregating by this fall. 
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Pigskin
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« Reply #51 on: Today at 04:44:11 PM »

Let's say we go back to football in September, but the Bombers are only 15,000 fans. How would the bomber determine who the 15,000 would be. Would season ticket holders get first crack at the 15,000 seats?
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