Blue Bombers Forum
May 25, 2020, 02:50:17 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Poll
Question: ?
Yes - 4 (11.4%)
No - 19 (54.3%)
Wouldn't help anyway - 3 (8.6%)
Don't have seasons but would donate anyway - 6 (17.1%)
Maybe - 3 (8.6%)
Total Voters: 35

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Would you donate your season tickets to help keep league alive?  (Read 2267 times)
ModAdmin
Administrator
*****
Posts: 10634


Blue Bombers and Fans


« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2020, 03:29:56 AM »

We are in for about $3,000

I'll let the team keep the money as a rollover to next year's tickets.

For the last couple of years (while our kids are younger) we have sold 2 of our 3 seats for most of the games and taken the kids (one is still a lap child) to a couple of games.

That was the deal I made with my wife to keep the tickets while the kids were younger.


The fan in me yells, "For sure keep it as a donation," (and that might be the only way we could actually do it if we got a tax-deductible receipt. The reality is we make decisions as a couple and my wife would be a harder sell for that. She works in healthcare where they are having to lay off some staff for their programs. It would be hard for us to donate the money to the Blue Bombers as opposed to the 6 or so companies under the umbrella of the company she works for. We are already donating to that company in hopes that it will help keep some of their staff.

As Christians, we tithe at least 10% off of our gross salary to the church, have 4 sponsor kids, and donate to many other organizations (please don't take this a boasting, that's not the intent). Rather the intent is to show that we haven't paid for all of our tickets for the last number of years and that we are hevily invested in donations.

Well said Donny.  You and your family are clearly doing what is right.
Logged

"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." - John Wooden
Sir Blue and Gold
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21901



« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2020, 01:24:09 PM »

I would if I thought it would actually help (and was necessary to) "keep the league alive". Having said that I question the impact it would have and whether the league truly needs it. The league will probably arrive at some federally backed deal if it really is required. That's the most effective and realistic scenario at this point. The CFL doesn't need a lot of money in government terms -- $150M bailout dressed up as a loan (or something around that) is probably not a big deal if the CFL demonstrates actual need. Ottawa is (rightly) spending a lot of money to keep us going during this time and they'll be looking for a few wins in the west (where the CFL is more highly visible).

I am interested to see how the CFL came up with the $150M (it's an awfully round number) and what they would do with it. On the surface is sounds high - certainly the league can't be losing anywhere close to that much per year -- even in a non-season year.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 01:25:53 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
blue_or_die
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8128



« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2020, 03:13:18 PM »

I would if I thought it would actually help (and was necessary to) "keep the league alive". Having said that I question the impact it would have and whether the league truly needs it. The league will probably arrive at some federally backed deal if it really is required. That's the most effective and realistic scenario at this point. The CFL doesn't need a lot of money in government terms -- $150M bailout dressed up as a loan (or something around that) is probably not a big deal if the CFL demonstrates actual need. Ottawa is (rightly) spending a lot of money to keep us going during this time and they'll be looking for a few wins in the west (where the CFL is more highly visible).

I am interested to see how the CFL came up with the $150M (it's an awfully round number) and what they would do with it. On the surface is sounds high - certainly the league can't be losing anywhere close to that much per year -- even in a non-season year.

I imagine it includes the full value of all salaries of this involved in the league (players, execs, water boys, etc). That's gotta be close to 10 million per team, right? Throw in stadium obligations (which may even accrue for yearly upgrades to older stadiums and loan obligations for newer stadiums + yearly maintenance to all). I'm sure there's several million in padding as well.

I would think $150M is definitely on the high side and wanting to account for literally every expense.
Logged

107th Grey Cup champs and WE ARE LIT
Sir Blue and Gold
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21901



« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2020, 03:42:34 PM »

I imagine it includes the full value of all salaries of this involved in the league (players, execs, water boys, etc). That's gotta be close to 10 million per team, right? Throw in stadium obligations (which may even accrue for yearly upgrades to older stadiums and loan obligations for newer stadiums + yearly maintenance to all). I'm sure there's several million in padding as well.

I would think $150M is definitely on the high side and wanting to account for literally every expense.

It shouldn't. And the federal government is definitely not going to pay for salaries of US players to sit at home in the US and not come to work. The CFL won't either and they shouldn't.

It's probably all calculated posturing and the cheque will probably be smaller. It might work something like this: the CFL makes a big display of asking for $150M knowing the government has a somewhat tough time paying a lot to sports leagues. The government and CFL talk and agree to a much lower number (which is more realistic to their actual one year losses). The government can look like they negotiated the CFL downward and are being very responsible with taxpayer money the CFL can say how thankful they are and how they're going to have to sharpen their pencil and make it all work.
Logged
blue_or_die
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8128



« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2020, 03:45:54 PM »

It shouldn't. And the federal government is definitely not going to pay for salaries of US players to sit at home in the US and not come to work. The CFL won't either and they shouldn't.

It's probably all calculated posturing and the cheque will probably be smaller. It might work something like this: the CFL makes a big display of asking for $150M knowing the government has a somewhat tough time paying a lot to sports leagues. The government and CFL talk and agree to a much lower number (which is more realistic to their actual one year losses). The government can look like they negotiated the CFL downward and are being very responsible with taxpayer money the CFL can say how thankful they are and how they're going to have to sharpen their pencil and make it all work.

Yes, that's exactly what's happening.
Logged

107th Grey Cup champs and WE ARE LIT
the paw
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3939


« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2020, 03:56:42 PM »

It shouldn't. And the federal government is definitely not going to pay for salaries of US players to sit at home in the US and not come to work. The CFL won't either and they shouldn't.

It's probably all calculated posturing and the cheque will probably be smaller. It might work something like this: the CFL makes a big display of asking for $150M knowing the government has a somewhat tough time paying a lot to sports leagues. The government and CFL talk and agree to a much lower number (which is more realistic to their actual one year losses). The government can look like they negotiated the CFL downward and are being very responsible with taxpayer money the CFL can say how thankful they are and how they're going to have to sharpen their pencil and make it all work.
 

There's a story on 3downnation where Scott Mitchell talks about this from the Ti-Cats perspective.  He states that even though the salary cap is what it is, the non-cap salary expenses like injuries still exist. Their salary costs are $7.5 million rather than just $5 mill.  Another $5 mill pays coaches, other operations staff, travel, etc. 

His main point is that football operations expenses are only half of the organizational expenses.  marketing, administration, etc. represent the other half.    He suggests that they have $6 million in sunk costs already in preparing for the season (this would include coaches, scouts, off-season payments to vendors, regular monthly overhead, etc.).  If they cancel the season, all revenues go basically to zero, so its not hard to see that they could lose $10 million even if the players don't get paid this year. 

I'm not adverse to the feds helping the league out.  But my position would be either it is a loan, or the private owners give up some equity in the team to the feds. 
Logged

grab grass 'n growl
Sir Blue and Gold
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21901



« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2020, 04:25:27 PM »

Sure - but there would be a big amount of savings in though. Players are the single biggest expense and you no longer have to pay them. A lot of the front office staff could be furloughed or laid off. $150M/10 (9 teams plus the league) is $15M.

As per the annual report, the Bombers spent $11.8M on marketing, administration and game day related costs. Much of that can likely be saved. They also spent $12.2M on football operations of which I'd imagine both the player and front office SMS costs a part of. They don't really have any other major expenses. $5M for stadium occupancy and limited budget for community outreach and transit program which they didn't pay for last year.

It's not a pretty picture at all, and I obviously have a limited understanding of the costs through looking at the report, but the ask still seems high to me.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 04:27:37 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
the paw
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3939


« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2020, 04:47:06 PM »

Sure - but there would be a big amount of savings in though. Players are the single biggest expense and you no longer have to pay them. A lot of the front office staff could be furloughed or laid off. $150M/10 (9 teams plus the league) is $15M.

As per the annual report, the Bombers spent $11.8M on marketing, administration and game day related costs. Much of that can likely be saved. They also spent $12.2M on football operations of which I'd imagine both the player and front office SMS costs a part of. They don't really have any other major expenses. $5M for stadium occupancy and limited budget for community outreach and transit program which they didn't pay for last year.

It's not a pretty picture at all, and I obviously have a limited understanding of the costs through looking at the report, but the ask still seems high to me.

I guess my take was that if you assume you can't lay everyone off, you still have to pay the lease on the photocopier, you still have to maintain your basic business infrastructure, and the teams already have some sunk costs for this year, then Wade Miller's earlier statement that the Bombers stand to lose $10m from a shutdown is credible.   That assumes revenues from TSN and all sponsorships zero out, which is not an unreasonable assumption.

So that gets us to $90 million across the league.  The players total payroll is around $50 million league wide. Let's imagine that the CFLPA would agree to leave contracts in place if everyone at least got the league min as a stipend.  You could cut that $50 million to $25 million.  Add the 25 to 90, and you're at $115 million.  If you figure the league office and officials have to get something, you're probably at $125 million anyway. 

So I don't think the size of the ask is egregious.  I think not being transparent with the plan for the money, not specifying grant or loan, not having the players onside are all outrageous fails by Ambrosie. 
Logged

grab grass 'n growl
Blue In BC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24602


« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2020, 05:42:01 PM »

Sure - but there would be a big amount of savings in though. Players are the single biggest expense and you no longer have to pay them. A lot of the front office staff could be furloughed or laid off. $150M/10 (9 teams plus the league) is $15M.

As per the annual report, the Bombers spent $11.8M on marketing, administration and game day related costs. Much of that can likely be saved. They also spent $12.2M on football operations of which I'd imagine both the player and front office SMS costs a part of. They don't really have any other major expenses. $5M for stadium occupancy and limited budget for community outreach and transit program which they didn't pay for last year.

It's not a pretty picture at all, and I obviously have a limited understanding of the costs through looking at the report, but the ask still seems high to me.

It's not clear whether they'd have to pay players although I've pointed that in other posts. If you don't pay them are they then free agents?
Logged

No more excuses.
Donny C
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4094



« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2020, 06:11:19 PM »

Well said Donny.  You and your family are clearly doing what is right.

Thanks.

I think everyone is trying to figure out what is right for themselves and others at this time.
Logged
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2863


« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2020, 06:16:41 PM »

It shouldn't. And the federal government is definitely not going to pay for salaries of US players to sit at home in the US and not come to work. The CFL won't either and they shouldn't.

It's probably all calculated posturing and the cheque will probably be smaller. It might work something like this: the CFL makes a big display of asking for $150M knowing the government has a somewhat tough time paying a lot to sports leagues. The government and CFL talk and agree to a much lower number (which is more realistic to their actual one year losses). The government can look like they negotiated the CFL downward and are being very responsible with taxpayer money the CFL can say how thankful they are and how they're going to have to sharpen their pencil and make it all work.
The company I work for is Canadian founded...corporately in charge of all things fiscal and financial, and we have strong presence in the U.S with U.S based workers, as well as an international client base with projects everywhere...Money in the end comes from Canada as that is where head offices are, and during this most of our staff is able to work from home...others can't, so are being paid full salary regardless..Thas Canadian and U.S resident employees..based on that logic should we leave our U.S employees S.O.L and dangling in the wind?

Same can be said of U.S born player working for their Canadian employer...the CFL...No?
Logged
blue girl
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4529



« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2020, 07:45:14 PM »

I think that the league has to pay the players something or I believe that they can become free agents unless the CFL and CFLPA can reach an agreement. Also some of this money is for players who had signing bonuses.
Logged
Sir Blue and Gold
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21901



« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2020, 08:29:32 PM »

The company I work for is Canadian founded...corporately in charge of all things fiscal and financial, and we have strong presence in the U.S with U.S based workers, as well as an international client base with projects everywhere...Money in the end comes from Canada as that is where head offices are, and during this most of our staff is able to work from home...others can't, so are being paid full salary regardless..Thas Canadian and U.S resident employees..based on that logic should we leave our U.S employees S.O.L and dangling in the wind?

Same can be said of U.S born player working for their Canadian employer...the CFL...No?

A private company is a completely different thing. Of course they will continue to pay their American and internationally-based employees as long as they are able. I assume those employees are also working. CFL players are not.

The federal government is not going to be eager to hand over taxpayer money in order for CFL teams to pay American citizens who don't pay typical Canadian income tax nor file in this country. They very likely wouldn't do that for Canadian players either - they'd tell them to apply for the CERB like everyone else. So yes, they will be SOL to put in bluntly.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 08:32:40 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
Sir Blue and Gold
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 21901



« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2020, 08:38:28 PM »

It's not clear whether they'd have to pay players although I've pointed that in other posts. If you don't pay them are they then free agents?

Who knows - that would go beyond anything I'd be able to even guess at. Maybe, probably? Some bonus money might have been paid out, but lots of contracts probably have other bonuses behind training camp, starts, performance, etc - those criteria obviously aren't being met. I think players get paid per game (hence game day cheque and the importance of being on the 46-man roster). Obviously that criteria isn't being met by anybody.
Logged
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2863


« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2020, 12:09:58 PM »

American players pay taxes taken off their game day cheques here just the same as the Canadian guys...the idea they don't, and shouldnt be allowed same concessions as their Canadian counterparts is absurd
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!