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May 26, 2020, 06:44:43 PM *
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Poll
Question: ?
Yes - 4 (11.4%)
No - 19 (54.3%)
Wouldn't help anyway - 3 (8.6%)
Don't have seasons but would donate anyway - 6 (17.1%)
Maybe - 3 (8.6%)
Total Voters: 35

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Author Topic: Would you donate your season tickets to help keep league alive?  (Read 2309 times)
pjrocksmb
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« on: May 08, 2020, 04:07:53 AM »

I would consider it
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theaardvark
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2020, 01:06:10 PM »

That is silly.  The question is, would you demand repayment of your season tickets now if the season was cancelled, or would you let it ride, no interest or penalty, for next year's ducats.

I have no issue with that idea... might even buy some vouchers for concessions if offered...
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Ridermania
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2020, 01:21:13 PM »

I think most CFL teams will offer a carryover on tickets for 2021 season or a full refund if requested.

Personally, I will just have my season tickets move over to next year, but will request my Grey Cup ticket payment returned.

Side Note - I anticipate Grey Cup will stay in Hamilton for 2021 and then circle back to Saskatchewan in 2022.

Side Note II - When the season is cancelled, going to be very interesting how clubs handle older player contracts and how many veterans move-on to other careers.







 
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Donny C
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2020, 03:26:14 PM »

We are in for about $3,000

I'll let the team keep the money as a rollover to next year's tickets.

For the last couple of years (while our kids are younger) we have sold 2 of our 3 seats for most of the games and taken the kids (one is still a lap child) to a couple of games.

That was the deal I made with my wife to keep the tickets while the kids were younger.


The fan in me yells, "For sure keep it as a donation," (and that might be the only way we could actually do it if we got a tax-deductible receipt. The reality is we make decisions as a couple and my wife would be a harder sell for that. She works in healthcare where they are having to lay off some staff for their programs. It would be hard for us to donate the money to the Blue Bombers as opposed to the 6 or so companies under the umbrella of the company she works for. We are already donating to that company in hopes that it will help keep some of their staff.

As Christians, we tithe at least 10% off of our gross salary to the church, have 4 sponsor kids, and donate to many other organizations (please don't take this a boasting, that's not the intent). Rather the intent is to show that we haven't paid for all of our tickets for the last number of years and that we are hevily invested in donations.
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RebusRankin
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2020, 04:08:04 PM »

I'd do a carryover to next season.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2020, 05:17:25 PM »

With so many people out of work I doubt there would be much support for a donation.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2020, 05:47:46 PM »

Sure. Winnipeg needs this team.
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2020, 06:26:24 PM »

No, roll over only is ok.
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Sec227
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2020, 07:40:37 PM »

I think refunded tickets would be the death of the bombers. I dont know about the $$ amount of contracts that have to be payed out, roster or signing bonus this year. But it cant be in the millions. Even at 20,000 season tickets, round it an even 500 PER ticket. Thats $10,000,000 right there. Assume they may get some TSN $ early. The team should, should be ok. I understand the loan of the stadium. But it's easy to think the Govt will quietly defer that payment to a later date. Staff would be laid off. Some corporate sponsorship should be long term $$. All of that should keep them afloat, fingers crossed, if or when the season is cancelled.

It's NEXT year, thats going to be more dangerous than this year. Clawed back corporate $$, layoffs $$, that season ticket $ HAS to be carried over to next. NO new season $$.....See where Im going with this.

As a season ticket holder. I gladly will defer to next year. I don't need a refund, my tickets are paid in full.
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blue girl
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2020, 08:14:44 PM »

I have said along that The Bombers can keep the money that I have paid in season tickets. I'm not sure how much this is because I'm on The Bomber For Life program which deducts a certain amount every month. As far as I'm concerned the Bombers can keep deducting every month for the total amount. I realize that I'm in the minority since because of health issues I'm on disability. But that's also one of the reasons that I want to help the team. Football gives me a few hours a week to just forget my problems.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2020, 10:36:57 PM »

I have said along that The Bombers can keep the money that I have paid in season tickets. I'm not sure how much this is because I'm on The Bomber For Life program which deducts a certain amount every month. As far as I'm concerned the Bombers can keep deducting every month for the total amount. I realize that I'm in the minority since because of health issues I'm on disability. But that's also one of the reasons that I want to help the team. Football gives me a few hours a week to just forget my problems.

You are a really great fan Smiley
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blue girl
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2020, 11:12:06 PM »

You are a really great fan Smiley
Well thank you for that. The thing is that by my choice I don't drink or smoke and I don't drive a car. So I choose to spend my money on The Bombers.
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2020, 03:48:56 AM »

Well thank you for that. The thing is that by my choice I don't drink or smoke and I don't drive a car. So I choose to spend my money on The Bombers.

You are one of the main reasons why the CFL and the Bombers are so important to the country and to fans across Canada and need to be around whenever there is an opening kickoff again - this year or next.  The federal government will hopefully step up if and when needed.
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Knocker42
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2020, 03:38:28 PM »

With the exception of two seasons when health prevented it, I have been a season ticket holder since 1970 and consider it to have been great value.  In their biggest time of need, I will gladly let them have my ticket money as a donation, in the hope that there will be future seasons.
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In Motion
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« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2020, 12:20:25 AM »

I'm  not a season ticket holder and not well off by any stretch of the imagination.
I'll be 65 in the fall. However, how much would I be willing to pay every year to
keep the Bombers in the city? I would say $500 per season for the rest of my life.
I already give a lot to charity, but I can afford this extra money as long as I don't
get sick and have all kinds of health-related costs. I have no debts and no family
to support, and live a very simple lifestyle.

If need be, I could even give $1,000 per year, though it would mean some sacrifices.
Due to COVID we might have to start living on less and giving up a few things, but the CFL is definitely not one of the things I want to give up. 
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2020, 03:29:56 AM »

We are in for about $3,000

I'll let the team keep the money as a rollover to next year's tickets.

For the last couple of years (while our kids are younger) we have sold 2 of our 3 seats for most of the games and taken the kids (one is still a lap child) to a couple of games.

That was the deal I made with my wife to keep the tickets while the kids were younger.


The fan in me yells, "For sure keep it as a donation," (and that might be the only way we could actually do it if we got a tax-deductible receipt. The reality is we make decisions as a couple and my wife would be a harder sell for that. She works in healthcare where they are having to lay off some staff for their programs. It would be hard for us to donate the money to the Blue Bombers as opposed to the 6 or so companies under the umbrella of the company she works for. We are already donating to that company in hopes that it will help keep some of their staff.

As Christians, we tithe at least 10% off of our gross salary to the church, have 4 sponsor kids, and donate to many other organizations (please don't take this a boasting, that's not the intent). Rather the intent is to show that we haven't paid for all of our tickets for the last number of years and that we are hevily invested in donations.

Well said Donny.  You and your family are clearly doing what is right.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2020, 01:24:09 PM »

I would if I thought it would actually help (and was necessary to) "keep the league alive". Having said that I question the impact it would have and whether the league truly needs it. The league will probably arrive at some federally backed deal if it really is required. That's the most effective and realistic scenario at this point. The CFL doesn't need a lot of money in government terms -- $150M bailout dressed up as a loan (or something around that) is probably not a big deal if the CFL demonstrates actual need. Ottawa is (rightly) spending a lot of money to keep us going during this time and they'll be looking for a few wins in the west (where the CFL is more highly visible).

I am interested to see how the CFL came up with the $150M (it's an awfully round number) and what they would do with it. On the surface is sounds high - certainly the league can't be losing anywhere close to that much per year -- even in a non-season year.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 01:25:53 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
blue_or_die
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« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2020, 03:13:18 PM »

I would if I thought it would actually help (and was necessary to) "keep the league alive". Having said that I question the impact it would have and whether the league truly needs it. The league will probably arrive at some federally backed deal if it really is required. That's the most effective and realistic scenario at this point. The CFL doesn't need a lot of money in government terms -- $150M bailout dressed up as a loan (or something around that) is probably not a big deal if the CFL demonstrates actual need. Ottawa is (rightly) spending a lot of money to keep us going during this time and they'll be looking for a few wins in the west (where the CFL is more highly visible).

I am interested to see how the CFL came up with the $150M (it's an awfully round number) and what they would do with it. On the surface is sounds high - certainly the league can't be losing anywhere close to that much per year -- even in a non-season year.

I imagine it includes the full value of all salaries of this involved in the league (players, execs, water boys, etc). That's gotta be close to 10 million per team, right? Throw in stadium obligations (which may even accrue for yearly upgrades to older stadiums and loan obligations for newer stadiums + yearly maintenance to all). I'm sure there's several million in padding as well.

I would think $150M is definitely on the high side and wanting to account for literally every expense.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2020, 03:42:34 PM »

I imagine it includes the full value of all salaries of this involved in the league (players, execs, water boys, etc). That's gotta be close to 10 million per team, right? Throw in stadium obligations (which may even accrue for yearly upgrades to older stadiums and loan obligations for newer stadiums + yearly maintenance to all). I'm sure there's several million in padding as well.

I would think $150M is definitely on the high side and wanting to account for literally every expense.

It shouldn't. And the federal government is definitely not going to pay for salaries of US players to sit at home in the US and not come to work. The CFL won't either and they shouldn't.

It's probably all calculated posturing and the cheque will probably be smaller. It might work something like this: the CFL makes a big display of asking for $150M knowing the government has a somewhat tough time paying a lot to sports leagues. The government and CFL talk and agree to a much lower number (which is more realistic to their actual one year losses). The government can look like they negotiated the CFL downward and are being very responsible with taxpayer money the CFL can say how thankful they are and how they're going to have to sharpen their pencil and make it all work.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2020, 03:45:54 PM »

It shouldn't. And the federal government is definitely not going to pay for salaries of US players to sit at home in the US and not come to work. The CFL won't either and they shouldn't.

It's probably all calculated posturing and the cheque will probably be smaller. It might work something like this: the CFL makes a big display of asking for $150M knowing the government has a somewhat tough time paying a lot to sports leagues. The government and CFL talk and agree to a much lower number (which is more realistic to their actual one year losses). The government can look like they negotiated the CFL downward and are being very responsible with taxpayer money the CFL can say how thankful they are and how they're going to have to sharpen their pencil and make it all work.

Yes, that's exactly what's happening.
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the paw
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« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2020, 03:56:42 PM »

It shouldn't. And the federal government is definitely not going to pay for salaries of US players to sit at home in the US and not come to work. The CFL won't either and they shouldn't.

It's probably all calculated posturing and the cheque will probably be smaller. It might work something like this: the CFL makes a big display of asking for $150M knowing the government has a somewhat tough time paying a lot to sports leagues. The government and CFL talk and agree to a much lower number (which is more realistic to their actual one year losses). The government can look like they negotiated the CFL downward and are being very responsible with taxpayer money the CFL can say how thankful they are and how they're going to have to sharpen their pencil and make it all work.
 

There's a story on 3downnation where Scott Mitchell talks about this from the Ti-Cats perspective.  He states that even though the salary cap is what it is, the non-cap salary expenses like injuries still exist. Their salary costs are $7.5 million rather than just $5 mill.  Another $5 mill pays coaches, other operations staff, travel, etc. 

His main point is that football operations expenses are only half of the organizational expenses.  marketing, administration, etc. represent the other half.    He suggests that they have $6 million in sunk costs already in preparing for the season (this would include coaches, scouts, off-season payments to vendors, regular monthly overhead, etc.).  If they cancel the season, all revenues go basically to zero, so its not hard to see that they could lose $10 million even if the players don't get paid this year. 

I'm not adverse to the feds helping the league out.  But my position would be either it is a loan, or the private owners give up some equity in the team to the feds. 
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2020, 04:25:27 PM »

Sure - but there would be a big amount of savings in though. Players are the single biggest expense and you no longer have to pay them. A lot of the front office staff could be furloughed or laid off. $150M/10 (9 teams plus the league) is $15M.

As per the annual report, the Bombers spent $11.8M on marketing, administration and game day related costs. Much of that can likely be saved. They also spent $12.2M on football operations of which I'd imagine both the player and front office SMS costs a part of. They don't really have any other major expenses. $5M for stadium occupancy and limited budget for community outreach and transit program which they didn't pay for last year.

It's not a pretty picture at all, and I obviously have a limited understanding of the costs through looking at the report, but the ask still seems high to me.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 04:27:37 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
the paw
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2020, 04:47:06 PM »

Sure - but there would be a big amount of savings in though. Players are the single biggest expense and you no longer have to pay them. A lot of the front office staff could be furloughed or laid off. $150M/10 (9 teams plus the league) is $15M.

As per the annual report, the Bombers spent $11.8M on marketing, administration and game day related costs. Much of that can likely be saved. They also spent $12.2M on football operations of which I'd imagine both the player and front office SMS costs a part of. They don't really have any other major expenses. $5M for stadium occupancy and limited budget for community outreach and transit program which they didn't pay for last year.

It's not a pretty picture at all, and I obviously have a limited understanding of the costs through looking at the report, but the ask still seems high to me.

I guess my take was that if you assume you can't lay everyone off, you still have to pay the lease on the photocopier, you still have to maintain your basic business infrastructure, and the teams already have some sunk costs for this year, then Wade Miller's earlier statement that the Bombers stand to lose $10m from a shutdown is credible.   That assumes revenues from TSN and all sponsorships zero out, which is not an unreasonable assumption.

So that gets us to $90 million across the league.  The players total payroll is around $50 million league wide. Let's imagine that the CFLPA would agree to leave contracts in place if everyone at least got the league min as a stipend.  You could cut that $50 million to $25 million.  Add the 25 to 90, and you're at $115 million.  If you figure the league office and officials have to get something, you're probably at $125 million anyway. 

So I don't think the size of the ask is egregious.  I think not being transparent with the plan for the money, not specifying grant or loan, not having the players onside are all outrageous fails by Ambrosie. 
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2020, 05:42:01 PM »

Sure - but there would be a big amount of savings in though. Players are the single biggest expense and you no longer have to pay them. A lot of the front office staff could be furloughed or laid off. $150M/10 (9 teams plus the league) is $15M.

As per the annual report, the Bombers spent $11.8M on marketing, administration and game day related costs. Much of that can likely be saved. They also spent $12.2M on football operations of which I'd imagine both the player and front office SMS costs a part of. They don't really have any other major expenses. $5M for stadium occupancy and limited budget for community outreach and transit program which they didn't pay for last year.

It's not a pretty picture at all, and I obviously have a limited understanding of the costs through looking at the report, but the ask still seems high to me.

It's not clear whether they'd have to pay players although I've pointed that in other posts. If you don't pay them are they then free agents?
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Donny C
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« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2020, 06:11:19 PM »

Well said Donny.  You and your family are clearly doing what is right.

Thanks.

I think everyone is trying to figure out what is right for themselves and others at this time.
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booch
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« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2020, 06:16:41 PM »

It shouldn't. And the federal government is definitely not going to pay for salaries of US players to sit at home in the US and not come to work. The CFL won't either and they shouldn't.

It's probably all calculated posturing and the cheque will probably be smaller. It might work something like this: the CFL makes a big display of asking for $150M knowing the government has a somewhat tough time paying a lot to sports leagues. The government and CFL talk and agree to a much lower number (which is more realistic to their actual one year losses). The government can look like they negotiated the CFL downward and are being very responsible with taxpayer money the CFL can say how thankful they are and how they're going to have to sharpen their pencil and make it all work.
The company I work for is Canadian founded...corporately in charge of all things fiscal and financial, and we have strong presence in the U.S with U.S based workers, as well as an international client base with projects everywhere...Money in the end comes from Canada as that is where head offices are, and during this most of our staff is able to work from home...others can't, so are being paid full salary regardless..Thas Canadian and U.S resident employees..based on that logic should we leave our U.S employees S.O.L and dangling in the wind?

Same can be said of U.S born player working for their Canadian employer...the CFL...No?
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blue girl
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« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2020, 07:45:14 PM »

I think that the league has to pay the players something or I believe that they can become free agents unless the CFL and CFLPA can reach an agreement. Also some of this money is for players who had signing bonuses.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2020, 08:29:32 PM »

The company I work for is Canadian founded...corporately in charge of all things fiscal and financial, and we have strong presence in the U.S with U.S based workers, as well as an international client base with projects everywhere...Money in the end comes from Canada as that is where head offices are, and during this most of our staff is able to work from home...others can't, so are being paid full salary regardless..Thas Canadian and U.S resident employees..based on that logic should we leave our U.S employees S.O.L and dangling in the wind?

Same can be said of U.S born player working for their Canadian employer...the CFL...No?

A private company is a completely different thing. Of course they will continue to pay their American and internationally-based employees as long as they are able. I assume those employees are also working. CFL players are not.

The federal government is not going to be eager to hand over taxpayer money in order for CFL teams to pay American citizens who don't pay typical Canadian income tax nor file in this country. They very likely wouldn't do that for Canadian players either - they'd tell them to apply for the CERB like everyone else. So yes, they will be SOL to put in bluntly.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 08:32:40 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2020, 08:38:28 PM »

It's not clear whether they'd have to pay players although I've pointed that in other posts. If you don't pay them are they then free agents?

Who knows - that would go beyond anything I'd be able to even guess at. Maybe, probably? Some bonus money might have been paid out, but lots of contracts probably have other bonuses behind training camp, starts, performance, etc - those criteria obviously aren't being met. I think players get paid per game (hence game day cheque and the importance of being on the 46-man roster). Obviously that criteria isn't being met by anybody.
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booch
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2020, 12:09:58 PM »

American players pay taxes taken off their game day cheques here just the same as the Canadian guys...the idea they don't, and shouldnt be allowed same concessions as their Canadian counterparts is absurd
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2020, 12:59:11 PM »

Who knows - that would go beyond anything I'd be able to even guess at. Maybe, probably? Some bonus money might have been paid out, but lots of contracts probably have other bonuses behind training camp, starts, performance, etc - those criteria obviously aren't being met. I think players get paid per game (hence game day cheque and the importance of being on the 46-man roster). Obviously that criteria isn't being met by anybody.

I can imagine that some players will request their releases once they miss their 1st game check. 2nd year players for example? It's not unreasonable that some players may decide to try to get NFL TC offers.

The catch 22 is that even the NFL season is not certain.

2020 CFL rookies now invited to TC may choose to not stick around as well. Technically teams can't even determine their 46 man roster without TC.

EDIT: Well today is when rookie camp was to start. Regular season was due to start 06/11.  The clock is ticking at the moment. I hope the league and players association are meeting to discuss some type of mitigation.

I can only hope there is some sort of solution's put in place even if there is no 2020 season. What that will look like I have no idea, only questions.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 03:09:43 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2020, 06:15:18 PM »

American players pay taxes taken off their game day cheques here just the same as the Canadian guys...the idea they don't, and shouldnt be allowed same concessions as their Canadian counterparts is absurd

It absolutely is not and is a real political challenge. The feds are not keen to bail out US athletes living in the US.  If you don't believe me, then why not check out Dave Naylor's article that he published last night. You can see this coming from a miillleeeee away.

https://www.tsn.ca/naylor-cfl-s-unique-qualities-complicate-financial-situation-1.1474899

@rwesthead
If the CFL receives federal aid, Liberal MP Peter Fragiskatos told me Monday it would be ?alarming? if that emergency relief was used to pay American football players living in the U.S. ?The supports announced by the government are for the benefit of Canadians and the country."
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booch
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« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2020, 10:06:18 PM »

It absolutely is not and is a real political challenge. The feds are not keen to bail out US athletes living in the US.  If you don't believe me, then why not check out Dave Naylor's article that he published last night. You can see this coming from a miillleeeee away.

https://www.tsn.ca/naylor-cfl-s-unique-qualities-complicate-financial-situation-1.1474899

@rwesthead
If the CFL receives federal aid, Liberal MP Peter Fragiskatos told me Monday it would be ?alarming? if that emergency relief was used to pay American football players living in the U.S. ?The supports announced by the government are for the benefit of Canadians and the country."

Then if that is the case CFL American p[layers should be exempt from having to pay EI...as well as income tax and only pay their tax upon returning to the U.S....Why make a player ...or person pay for something they will have no benefit from...or chance to ever use?

That MP shot off his yap...without researching to find out that the U.S players pay the same crap us us Canadians have to...and if they want to be knobs about it then allow them to cross the border to their respective teams cities...self quarantine and let them benefit for what they paid for...it's no different than allowing these flights from all corners of the earth bringing Canadians back from wherever they have been....have the players follow the same re-entry conditions
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blue girl
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« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2020, 10:49:43 PM »

I don't think that MP has any clue what he's talking about. Especially when he says we shouldn't be paying Americans sitting at home. Training camp was supposed to open this week. I think most of if not all of these players would rather be coming up here. But unfortunately this has been taken away from them. And I'm sure that they contribute to the economy to purchase meals. As a matter of fact when I was working next door to The Radisson downtown players from other teams would shop where I was working.
 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 11:13:22 PM by blue girl » Logged
Pigskin
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« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2020, 02:40:46 AM »

Nice to hear that after making there stadium payment of 2.2M, the bombers turned a profit of just under 600K. Considering the bombers had to purchase Grey Cup rings and didn't have a home playoff game this year, I am okay with 600K.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 02:44:45 AM by Pigskin » Logged
dd
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« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2020, 02:56:46 AM »

The cfl shouldn?t get any further bailout $$ that the average Canadian is entitled to, there?s programs in place already for Canadians to access, including football players.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2020, 10:56:13 AM »

Then if that is the case CFL American p[layers should be exempt from having to pay EI...as well as income tax and only pay their tax upon returning to the U.S....Why make a player ...or person pay for something they will have no benefit from...or chance to ever use?

That MP shot off his yap...without researching to find out that the U.S players pay the same crap us us Canadians have to...and if they want to be knobs about it then allow them to cross the border to their respective teams cities...self quarantine and let them benefit for what they paid for...it's no different than allowing these flights from all corners of the earth bringing Canadians back from wherever they have been....have the players follow the same re-entry conditions

But we aren't talking about them accessing EI (if they are paying into it), we are talking about using bailout money to pay players in full. I'm not sure that particular MP was unaware that they pay taxes, but just because you pay Canadian taxes for a few years doesn't mean you can get your full pay cheque with bailout money. I know plenty of people who have paid Canadian taxes their whole life who are out of work and are laid off and not getting paid. They are receiving CERB, a fraction of their regular pay. If the CFL paid players in full with Canadian taxpayer money, they would be treated better than anyone else out of work right now.

And I still don't think the government will go through any bother to create special travel provisions just for CFL players.
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2020, 01:31:55 PM »

I don't think that MP has any clue what he's talking about. Especially when he says we shouldn't be paying Americans sitting at home. Training camp was supposed to open this week. I think most of if not all of these players would rather be coming up here. But unfortunately this has been taken away from them. And I'm sure that they contribute to the economy to purchase meals. As a matter of fact when I was working next door to The Radisson downtown players from other teams would shop where I was working.
 

To be clear, you don't think the MP has any idea about politics?  Okie dokie.

The politics behind paying American citizens in full or part with Canadian money is about the most obvious giant political challenge that just about anyone with any amount of political awareness could see from 110 yards away.

The odds of it happening are about the same as a Milt Stegall miracle. Any money the CFL is given is going to have to be explained beforehand by the CFL.
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the paw
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« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2020, 01:50:20 PM »

To be clear, you don't think the MP has any idea about politics?  Okie dokie.

The politics behind paying American citizens in full or part with Canadian money is about the most obvious giant political challenge that just about anyone with any amount of political awareness could see from 110 yards away.

The odds of it happening are about a Milt Stegall miracle away. Any money the CFL is given is going to have to be explained beforehand by the CFL.

I think it matters where the players reside off season.  If a guy is living in a CFL city, maybe with his family, and he can't work, I think we have an obligation to him. (I also think we have a similar obligation to foreign workers at the Brandon Maple Leaf plant who are here on visas).  But if a guy is sitting at home in Tuscaloosa, then I think it's on the American government to provide income support. 

I think that is politically and logically defensible. I don't know how the CFLPA would react to that scenario.  Maybe they agree on a stipend for all players and for players-resident-in-Canada, the government reimburses the team, and for those in the US, the team eats it.  For sure, I think full salary will be off the table though. 
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« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2020, 02:48:38 PM »

The politics behind paying American citizens in full or part with Canadian money is about the most obvious giant political challenge that just about anyone with any amount of political awareness could see from 110 yards away. 

Well, citizenship isn't really the issue. It's residency. Where an individual resides for the majority of the year is what determines eligibility as far as things like EI, healthcare, and other such social benefits.

A CFL player who is a US citizen but resides in Canada for the bulk of the year contributes to those by the taxes he pays. That would deem him eligible for such benefits. It's no different than any other foreign national who's here as temporary resident and spends the majority of his/her time in Canada and pays taxes via employment.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2020, 03:10:26 PM »

I think it matters where the players reside off season.  If a guy is living in a CFL city, maybe with his family, and he can't work, I think we have an obligation to him. (I also think we have a similar obligation to foreign workers at the Brandon Maple Leaf plant who are here on visas).  But if a guy is sitting at home in Tuscaloosa, then I think it's on the American government to provide income support. 

I think that is politically and logically defensible. I don't know how the CFLPA would react to that scenario.  Maybe they agree on a stipend for all players and for players-resident-in-Canada, the government reimburses the team, and for those in the US, the team eats it.  For sure, I think full salary will be off the table though. 

I think the CFLPA probably ends up being the sacrificial lamb in this scenario, the CFL on it's own should have little difficulty negotiating a deal with the Feds. for a loan to keep the lights on and remain in hibernation mode until they can resume normal operations again next season, say 5 million a piece.  Throw the P.A. into the mix and the whole solution becomes much more expensive, complex, antagonistic and politically more difficult to sell to the general public.  Players are used to getting cut, I predict they're going to feel the knife again when they're cut out of this deal.  Canadian players will be available for some assistance through CERB, American players will get the sharp end of a pointed stick.  Without the CFL the CFLPA no longer exists, sometimes it's necessary for adults to make deals for the long-term betterment of their children that they may not initially comprehend.  This is one of those scenarios.
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the paw
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« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2020, 03:57:20 PM »

I think the CFLPA probably ends up being the sacrificial lamb in this scenario, the CFL on it's own should have little difficulty negotiating a deal with the Feds. for a loan to keep the lights on and remain in hibernation mode until they can resume normal operations again next season, say 5 million a piece.  Throw the P.A. into the mix and the whole solution becomes much more expensive, complex, antagonistic and politically more difficult to sell to the general public.  Players are used to getting cut, I predict they're going to feel the knife again when they're cut out of this deal.  Canadian players will be available for some assistance through CERB, American players will get the sharp end of a pointed stick.  Without the CFL the CFLPA no longer exists, sometimes it's necessary for adults to make deals for the long-term betterment of their children that they may not initially comprehend.  This is one of those scenarios.

I don't think so.  Players are going to take a hit, no question.  But the feds are not going to shovel money to Braley, Young and the other rich operators while the players get bupkis.  Seriously, even for a community-owned team, how could you justify keeping Wade Miller and Kyle Walters on the payroll while the players get nothing.   If the CFL insists on treating players like a commodity, then they will blow the deal with the feds. 
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2020, 04:48:13 PM »

I don't think so.  Players are going to take a hit, no question.  But the feds are not going to shovel money to Braley, Young and the other rich operators while the players get bupkis.  Seriously, even for a community-owned team, how could you justify keeping Wade Miller and Kyle Walters on the payroll while the players get nothing.   If the CFL insists on treating players like a commodity, then they will blow the deal with the feds. 

If the wealthy owners can illustrate that the CFL teams they own actually lose money year after year, they have a strong case in asking for assistance....seems to work for oil companies.  Both Braley and Young could legitimately claim that they are running charity organizations that provide entertainment for their communities, rather than a business enterprise that fattens their wallets.  As for the players being commodities.....I don't know how to break this to you but that is basically what they are.

All I'm really saying is the CFL has more hope of receiving a $30 million loan than it does a $150 million loan.
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the paw
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« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2020, 05:04:00 PM »

If the wealthy owners can illustrate that the CFL teams they own actually lose money year after year, they have a strong case in asking for assistance....seems to work for oil companies.  Both Braley and Young could legitimately claim that they are running charity organizations that provide entertainment for their communities, rather than a business enterprise that fattens their wallets.  As for the players being commodities.....I don't know how to break this to you but that is basically what they are.

All I'm really saying is the CFL has more hope of receiving a $30 million loan than it does a $150 million loan.

That's weak tea, my friend.  If Braley and Young want to cast themselves as charities in entrepreneurial clothing, they are going to have to answer why it appears they are so inept at it, when the actual community-owned teams are turning profits to the tune of $3.5 million annually.  If I was an MP and private sector tycoons wanted me to underwrite the losses of their plaything of the moment, I would be tempted to propose they donate the franchise to a community-owned model and take a seat as a community volunteer. 

And I think the view of players as commodities is not uncommon, its pretty clear Ambrosie thinks of them that way, his own history notwithstanding.  But its not a very enlightened approach to labour relations, and based on the initial response from the MPs, it will not serve their plea for funds very well to continue in that vein. 

But, in the final analysis, I agree that a $30 million loan is a much easier intervention to sell politically.  I'm just not sure it will be adequate to the task. 
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blue girl
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« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2020, 07:53:02 PM »

The more that I think about it the more I think that it's time for the private owners to cover some of these costs. How many times have the community owned teams had to bail out private owners?
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« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2020, 11:43:15 PM »

The more that I think about it the more I think that it's time for the private owners to cover some of these costs. How many times have the community owned teams had to bail out private owners?

Have the current private owners been bailed out?

I think most of the private owners have lost money year over year. Not sure they will want to/can afford to lose on their ?investment?.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2020, 01:07:58 AM »

Have the current private owners been bailed out?

I think most of the private owners have lost money year over year. Not sure they will want to/can afford to lose on their ?investment?.

If people want to make the private owners into villains, they'll just review past financials, concede they'll likely never make a profit, lock the doors and walk away like the Wetenhalls did.  Then what?  Hamilton and Calgary could conceivably form community ownership groups but I doubt there is enough interest in T.O., Vancouver or Mtl. to do so.
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« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2020, 02:34:33 AM »

The current private owners could walk away. I think that Bob Young would stay as would MLSE in Toronto if for no other reason than TSN needs the CFL. IMO the big problem is that the community owned teams are making a small profit so all these losses have to be coming from the privately owned teams. I think that the ones losing the most are Toronto and BC. I still think that the CFL will find a way to survive. But I also think that they'll have to do it without the federal government. That's why I'm willing to let them keep my season ticket money and let them credit me.
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bwiser
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« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2020, 07:21:31 PM »

I think most CFL teams will offer a carryover on tickets for 2021 season or a full refund if requested.

Personally, I will just have my season tickets move over to next year, but will request my Grey Cup ticket payment returned.

Side Note - I anticipate Grey Cup will stay in Hamilton for 2021 and then circle back to Saskatchewan in 2022.

Side Note II - When the season is cancelled, going to be very interesting how clubs handle older player contracts and how many veterans move-on to other careers.

I purchased tickets for Rockin the Fields in Minnedosa this year. It was just cancelled this week and they have offered ticket buyers to hold on to their tickets for next years show. I think that will happen with Bomber season tickets as well.





 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 02:53:23 AM by ModAdmin » Logged
Marni
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« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2020, 02:03:47 PM »

I purchased tickets for Rockin the Fields in Minnedosa this year. It was just cancelled this week and they have offered ticket buyers to hold on to their tickets for next years show. I think that will happen with Bomber season tickets as well.





 


I was just about to buy mine but held off! I?ll buy next year tho
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« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2020, 07:06:01 PM »

Nascar (PPE type equipment already widely used), Golf (limited interaction inside 2m), even tennis I can see opening up.  MLB as non contact already social distances, maybe changing the way the bases work might be done... but probably not.  NBA, NHL not as much, and while they have contact, the teams / staff are a much smaller scale as compared to football.  Football will be the last of the sports to restart in any way.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2020, 06:04:50 AM »

Nascar (PPE type equipment already widely used), Golf (limited interaction inside 2m), even tennis I can see opening up.  MLB as non contact already social distances, maybe changing the way the bases work might be done... but probably not.  NBA, NHL not as much, and while they have contact, the teams / staff are a much smaller scale as compared to football.  Football will be the last of the sports to restart in any way.

You're talking from the player/team perspective.  Sure, that's valid.  But I think that aspect is actually the easiest to deal with as you have a limited set of guys and could even do something like constant (twice a day) covid testing (full swabs, not just forehead temp), if you had enough money (NFL).  And in the worst possible case, 20-60 guys (i.e. the whole team) get sick.

It's how to make it safe(ish) for the stadium crowds... that's the real tricky part.  Blow that and you can get thousands sick.

No easy answers.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2020, 01:12:00 PM »

Lets play this out from a players/team standpoint.

First you have to get over the border. Then you have to self isolate for 14 days. Then take a test and if you pass, you can practice with your team.

Once flights and hotels and restaurants are running again, will people still have to self isolate for 14 days after flying to a new city? If so, you'd have to fly the team to the away game city, 14 days prior to the game so the team can self isolate. The cost of that for every away game would cripple, if not kill the CFL.

There's no way that players will be able to practice social distancing, while playing or standing on the sidelines for that matter.

As tests just show if you currently have the virus, you'd have to test each player a couple of days before each game and a couple of days after each game to make sure they're still virus free.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2020, 05:32:23 AM »

As tests just show if you currently have the virus, you'd have to test each player a couple of days before each game and a couple of days after each game to make sure they're still virus free.

I've been reading a lot about how F1 (car racing) plans on doing it.  They have a lot of good ideas, and they have more money than God to make it happen.  If there was a will to do it, it could be done for football too.  But really only the NFL would have the resources to do it.  And it only works in sports/leagues where the gate is small potatoes compared to the TV revenue.

F1 will get special waivers from normal govt red tape (border issues, etc.), then they'll set up a covid-free green zone at the track/facilities where no one comes or goes for days/weeks without being 100% cleared by (real) tests.  You create a sort of bubble, they called it a "biosphere".  As long as no one inside it has it, then no one inside can get it, and life can be 100% normal (no need for distancing, masks, etc.).

Obviously this excludes fans, and any races early in the "season" will be fan-free.

Ya, that's F1.  No, doesn't really transfer easily to the CFL.  No, the CFL doesn't have the resources.  No, the CFL (probably) can't play without gate revenue.  But... it shows there are possible solutions if the will is there.  If Canada and the provinces valued the CFL enough, they could cut the red tape.  However, our govts do so like their procedures...

If F1 can pull it off, I'm really curious to see if the NFL will try anything.  Just think of the viewership a league could get this year without any competition for TV eyeballs!!  If F1 gets it working first, their ratings will be through the roof.  Same with the first USA league in any sport to break the covid barrier... mondo TV revenue.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2020, 06:04:20 AM »

Lets play this out from a players/team standpoint.

First you have to get over the border. Then you have to self isolate for 14 days. Then take a test and if you pass, you can practice with your team.

Once flights and hotels and restaurants are running again, will people still have to self isolate for 14 days after flying to a new city? If so, you'd have to fly the team to the away game city, 14 days prior to the game so the team can self isolate. The cost of that for every away game would cripple, if not kill the CFL.

There's no way that players will be able to practice social distancing, while playing or standing on the sidelines for that matter.

As tests just show if you currently have the virus, you'd have to test each player a couple of days before each game and a couple of days after each game to make sure they're still virus free.

That's one way to look at it that would not lead to a feasible solution, an end around is to have every player who wants to participate sign a waiver accepting the risk of being infected, in addition to limiting physical interaction with the general public, no different than anyone else. Being young, healthy, and believing they are immortal I believe most players would not hesitate to sign up.  Imagine if you will, putting that option in front of a player like Mike O'Shea.  "F' yah!" would be his immediate answer.

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Jesse
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« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2020, 02:08:20 PM »

That's one way to look at it that would not lead to a feasible solution, an end around is to have every player who wants to participate sign a waiver accepting the risk of being infected, in addition to limiting physical interaction with the general public, no different than anyone else. Being young, healthy, and believing they are immortal I believe most players would not hesitate to sign up.  Imagine if you will, putting that option in front of a player like Mike O'Shea.  "F' yah!" would be his immediate answer.



Waivers like this wouldn't work.

The players wouldn't be risking their own health, they'd be risking the health of everyone they came in contact with.

It's not that the players won't do it, they won't be given the option.
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« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2020, 03:43:12 PM »

if players are tested prior to camp and are good to go, then you open camp with all "clean" players..and they stay at team ran facilities/dorms and interact as normal....standing anywhere..sidelines..on field...mess hall will not get you the virus...it's not floating around in the air searching out new hosts...it's transmitted with contact, and specific contact...plain and simple...so players going back and forth from dorm to facility for training camp is  pretty easy to maintain and manage...and if it has to come down to re-test after each game...so be it...the premise that people are throwing around about any team functions are impossible is silly...

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TBURGESS
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« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2020, 02:10:30 PM »

if players are tested prior to camp and are good to go, then you open camp with all "clean" players..and they stay at team ran facilities/dorms and interact as normal....standing anywhere..sidelines..on field...mess hall will not get you the virus...it's not floating around in the air searching out new hosts...it's transmitted with contact, and specific contact...plain and simple...so players going back and forth from dorm to facility for training camp is  pretty easy to maintain and manage...and if it has to come down to re-test after each game...so be it...the premise that people are throwing around about any team functions are impossible is silly...
You're completely ignoring the other people required to make that work. The food prep and serving staff, the cleaners, the equipment staff, the laundry staff, and so on. All these people interact with the players and the coaches on a daily basis. They aren't going to be in quarantine for the season and they can bring the virus in. It's the same issue that you see in long term care homes. The quarantined folks don't spread the disease until they get it from an outside source.

Another question that comes to mind is "Is it even a good idea to fly people in from all over Canada, the US and even some European cities, most of whom have a much bigger Covid-19 problem, to a low Covid-19 city like Winnipeg?"
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2020, 02:53:59 PM »

You're completely ignoring the other people required to make that work. The food prep and serving staff, the cleaners, the equipment staff, the laundry staff, and so on. All these people interact with the players and the coaches on a daily basis. They aren't going to be in quarantine for the season and they can bring the virus in. It's the same issue that you see in long term care homes. The quarantined folks don't spread the disease until they get it from an outside source.

Another question that comes to mind is "Is it even a good idea to fly people in from all over Canada, the US and even some European cities, most of whom have a much bigger Covid-19 problem, to a low Covid-19 city like Winnipeg?"

Four Canadian cities currently have international flights.  And those four cities have the highest outbreak numbers.  I don't believe in coincidences.

Government of Manitoba's stand on the issue is quite clear.  Out of provincers are not welcome officially, and won't be until long after the SOE has been lifted, which has been extended again.

Season ain't happening folks.  But the good news is all the 90 Day Fiance rejects now have their own shows, so I guess we can all watch that instead of football I guess.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2020, 05:24:51 AM »

You're completely ignoring the other people required to make that work. The food prep and serving staff, the cleaners, the equipment staff, the laundry staff, and so on. All these people interact with the players and the coaches on a daily basis. They aren't going to be in quarantine for the season and they can bring the virus in. It's the same issue that you see in long term care homes. The quarantined folks don't spread the disease until they get it from an outside source.

You are 100% correct.  Hence why I referenced the Formula 1 model.  They will create a "biosphere" at each race venue that will include all the misc and sundry staff required in the "all clean" biosphere.  There will be no "outside source".

Of course, the whole "more money than God" thing... hard for the CFL to replicate it, and as soon as you travel to another venue, you have to start the whole process over again.  That's why maybe the only way it can work in the CFL is to lock away the players and all support staff as well as everyone else required, for many weeks at a time in one venue and play all the games there.  Too bad the CFL couldn't afford to pay the hundreds (thousands?) of people it would require.  So, a pipe dream for us... but still will be interesting to watch F1 pull it off.
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« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2020, 10:58:40 PM »

This was sent out to season ticket holders today;

If you missed the news this week, on May 20th, the CFL made the following announcements:

- The 2020 season will not start until at least September. As a result, we estimate at this time that the 2020 home schedule will see a reduction of at least four games.

-    The host of the 2020 Grey Cup will be determined by a win-and-host model. This means we'll have the opportunity to play our way into defending our Grey Cup championship title at home.

As a result of the home schedule four-game reduction, your season ticket purchase has been adjusted to reflect the revised cost. This includes your game tickets as well as any parking, or park and ride passes, if applicable.

The total of your payments so far this year are greater than the adjusted cost of your purchase, meaning you now have an account credit of $      . Your Bomber For Life payments will resume in September..

Here's what you can do with your account credit:

-    Use it towards your 2021 season ticket renewal
-    Use it towards potential 2020 win-and-host Grey Cup game tickets
-    Use it towards additional game tickets for friends throughout the 2020 season
-    Request a refund

We have been asked by many season ticket members how they can support the club through 2020, here are some options:

Bomber Store Gift Cards

Use your account credit to purchase gift cards to The Bomber Store, and we will increase the value by 20%; OR

COVID-19 Team Support

Support your team during this challenging time and donate a portion of your account credit to your community-sponsored Winnipeg Football Club. Supporters wishing to donate over $150 will receive one of the following gifts:

-    $150 to $500 donation: $50 Bomber Store gift card
-  Donation of $500 and up: $100 Bomber Store gift card & a copy of For The W: A look back at the 2019 Grey Cup championship season autographed by Andrew Harris

Please click the link below to log into your Account Manager and let us know how you'll be using your account credit.

COVID-19 CREDIT OPTIONS

Please use your email address and password to log in. If you've forgotten your password, you can use the "forgot password" function to reset it.

If you need assistance or would like to discuss other options for your Blue Bombers account, please call or text (204) 784-7448, reach out via email at fanservices@bluebombers.com, or schedule an appointment for a call from our Fan Services team.
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