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Question: Assume average play from QB
500 - 2 (5.6%)
600 - 1 (2.8%)
700 - 5 (13.9%)
800 - 4 (11.1%)
900 - 5 (13.9%)
1000 - 19 (52.8%)
Total Voters: 36

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Author Topic: How many yards for Adams this year?  (Read 4555 times)
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2020, 08:18:47 PM »

So he forgot how to be a receiver in 5 years?...even though practicing at the position the whole time..Based on that ideal Banks...whose senior season was in 2009, and first opportunity to truley be a receiver happened in 2017...a much bigger gap, and Lucky had better receiver numbers than Banks as well, though both had piddly amounts even though Banks played an extra year, and Lucky actually would still be down there if not for that mistaken identity thing.

Also guys get pigeon holed (no fault of theirs mind you) and never get a true shot, and Whitehead was pigeon holed by Lapo here...comparables  are comparables I agree, but athleticism is athleticism and smart coaching knows how to fully use that...No knock on Lapo and saying he wsn't smart, but he was very short sited and stuck up on his ideals, and was a true example of fitting a round peg in a square hole kinda guy...was obvious with player use, as well as play calling

I don't think he "forgot". It's just he hasn't shown any ability to deliver those results in the six years since. So while he had a good senior year, so what? Enough time is passed that the subsequent 5 seasons of professional football should also carry weight.

I also don't agree that LaPo was shortsighted and tried to fit him into a "square hole". LaPolice used him in exactly the way he has had success in pro football. Out of the backfield, in the short passing/screen game and on special teams. If LaPolice had try to turn him into a downfield deep threat receiver, that would have been a good example of "round peg square hole" type situation.

You seem to think he is capable of more. You could be right, I have no idea, but I do know he has never done it on a professional football field. It may be that he hasn't been given the opportunity, but more likely he's just been beat out of those spots in the various practices and TCs he's attended. It's not like it takes a genius to look at his speed and quickness and give him a try there. It doesn't always translate to receiving prowess.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 08:21:22 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
booch
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« Reply #91 on: March 04, 2020, 08:49:54 PM »

I don't think he "forgot". It's just he hasn't shown any ability to deliver those results in the six years since. So while he had a good senior year, so what? Enough time is passed that the subsequent 5 seasons of professional football should also carry weight.

I also don't agree that LaPo was shortsighted and tried to fit him into a "square hole". LaPolice used him in exactly the way he has had success in pro football. Out of the backfield, in the short passing/screen game and on special teams. If LaPolice had try to turn him into a downfield deep threat receiver, that would have been a good example of "round peg square hole" type situation.

You seem to think he is capable of more. You could be right, I have no idea, but I do know he has never done it on a professional football field. It may be that he hasn't been given the opportunity, but more likely he's just been beat out of those spots in the various practices and TCs he's attended. It's not like it takes a genius to look at his speed and quickness and give him a try there. It doesn't always translate to receiving prowess.

Lapo has done this with numerous players, and in his schemes multiple times.

Lapo yes, used Whitehead like others did, (in the pro's) but never deviated anything away from it..so teams sat on it...they few times he ran a stop and go...a sluggo...or wheel route he always had his man beat, and always made the catch when the ball was on target.

Also talking with a couple guys who played in his conference in college he was used a lot stretching the field and as a down field receiver...but like y9ou mentioned, hasn't gotten that opportunity much here...and I don't even count the NFL stuff as pretty much most receivers brought to Canada, rarely got a shot, and were generally under utilized, and in roles not suited to their full capabilities
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2020, 08:55:39 PM »

Lapo has done this with numerous players, and in his schemes multiple times.

Lapo yes, used Whitehead like others did, (in the pro's) but never deviated anything away from it..so teams sat on it...they few times he ran a stop and go...a sluggo...or wheel route he always had his man beat, and always made the catch when the ball was on target.

Also talking with a couple guys who played in his conference in college he was used a lot stretching the field and as a down field receiver...but like y9ou mentioned, hasn't gotten that opportunity much here...and I don't even count the NFL stuff as pretty much most receivers brought to Canada, rarely got a shot, and were generally under utilized, and in roles not suited to their full capabilities

Sure, but it can't be both ways. LaPolice used him in the exact way he had proven himself to be good at. That's generally considered good game planning and coaching. I totally get where you're coming from, he could potentially be more than that, but isn't currently. He certainly hasn't convinced an OC in the NFL or CFL to let him do that on a consistent basis in the pros. I guess we'll see what happens this year. He's got another OC and a (somewhat) fresh start.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2020, 09:26:35 PM »

That said there will be massive competition at receiver as there is every year.

Is it just me, or does it seem like we're bringing in way less rookie IMP WR talent this year to compete at TC?  It just seems like we're filling the TC roster with D, and not doing much on O.  I could have sworn the 2019 TC had the WR ranks simply overflowing.

Maybe we're mostly happy with our GC WR guys?
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #94 on: March 04, 2020, 09:35:27 PM »

Is it just me, or does it seem like we're bringing in way less rookie IMP WR talent this year to compete at TC?  It just seems like we're filling the TC roster with D, and not doing much on O.  I could have sworn the 2019 TC had the WR ranks simply overflowing.

Maybe we're mostly happy with our GC WR guys?


It's just you. lol

It's early days. Many of those receivers will be found during the mini camps and after the NFL draft for those that don't get drafted. A few might become available from the XFL rosters as well. At least 1 is on our neg list.

IIRC we have about 5 rookie import receivers signed so far. Can't remember the exact timing but some of the 2018 rookie receivers didn't make it to the main TC. That seems a bit different with all of the 2019 rookies still on the roster.
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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2020, 12:52:06 AM »

Info on B. Banks. Just to show it wasn't until his 5th year in the CFL that he became a receiver per se. So I'm willing to cut players like Whitehead and Nelson a little slack due to pure athletic ability.


Year   Team   GP   REC   YARDS   AVG   TD   LNG
2013   HAM   5   9   95   10.60   0   44
2014   HAM   14   42   529   12.60   5   53
2015   HAM   18   22   220   10.00   1   44
2016   HAM   16   32   376   11.80   4   58
2017   HAM   18   67   1011   15.10   8   65
2018   HAM   14   94   1423   15.10   11   78
2019   HAM   16   112   1550   13.80   13   60
2019   HAM   16   112   1550   13.80   13   60

great comparison and it helps our prospect are likely pretty cheap as well
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2020, 02:20:40 PM »

Whitehead in particular showed great speed, elusiveness and vision of the field. He showed that in the 1 game where he had 2 TD's out of what seemed to be simple short pass receptions.

He also showed that in the Argo game where he returned the opening K/O for a TD untouched. Several Argos were left looking for equipment lost on the field.

IMO this is speed along with high football IQ. It's a rare combination and he needs be given more opportunity this season.

Nelson showed some similar flashes but his injury shortened his chances in 2019.

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Scratch Pad
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« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2020, 01:54:24 AM »

Whitehead in particular showed great speed, elusiveness and vision of the field. He showed that in the 1 game where he had 2 TD's out of what seemed to be simple short pass receptions.

He also showed that in the Argo game where he returned the opening K/O for a TD untouched. Several Argos were left looking for equipment lost on the field.

IMO this is speed along with high football IQ. It's a rare combination and he needs be given more opportunity this season.

Nelson showed some similar flashes but his injury shortened his chances in 2019.



LaPo under utilized Whitehead. Most of the time he had Whitehead standing just back of the line of scrimmage by the sideline, by the time Nichols realized he didn't have anyone open in front of him he'd throw the ball across the field to Whitehead. By the time the ball got to Whitehead he was double covered. Didn't give him much of a chance. Now that we have Collaros, who can throw the ball down field with far more accuracy than Nichols could, Whitehead should be going deep.

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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2020, 01:33:25 AM »

LaPo under utilized Whitehead. Most of the time he had Whitehead standing just back of the line of scrimmage by the sideline, by the time Nichols realized he didn't have anyone open in front of him he'd throw the ball across the field to Whitehead. By the time the ball got to Whitehead he was double covered. Didn't give him much of a chance. Now that we have Collaros, who can throw the ball down field with far more accuracy than Nichols could, Whitehead should be going deep.



Nichols deep ball isn't as poor as you suggest.  Whitehead's success is mostly dictated by his how quickly  he develops as a poor and how he can use his talents / how well he executes.  Collaros should help but its mostly on Whitehead to progress and be consistent.
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booch
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« Reply #99 on: March 13, 2020, 02:29:02 PM »

Nichols deep ball isn't as poor as you suggest.  Whitehead's success is mostly dictated by his how quickly  he develops as a poor and how he can use his talents / how well he executes.  Collaros should help but its mostly on Whitehead to progress and be consistent.
There were probably 4-5 instances a lone I recall where Whitehead had his man beat, and was wide open for the deep shot and our QB's couldn't connect with him, and there were other times he broke away and the QB wasn't even looking at him...his only real consistent usage was dumps and bubble screens, and when a team doesn't deviate from it, or run a different play off it...you get gobbled up...and pulverized...which was exactly what was happening to Lucky

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the paw
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« Reply #100 on: March 13, 2020, 03:12:39 PM »

There were probably 4-5 instances a lone I recall where Whitehead had his man beat, and was wide open for the deep shot and our QB's couldn't connect with him, and there were other times he broke away and the QB wasn't even looking at him...his only real consistent usage was dumps and bubble screens, and when a team doesn't deviate from it, or run a different play off it...you get gobbled up...and pulverized...which was exactly what was happening to Lucky



I just find it amazing that you can spot this from the stands or TV, but LaPolice, the best offensive coordinator in the CFL, who breaks down game film frame by frame for a living, was completely oblivious to it.

Do you think maybe you're experiencing a little confirmation bias because you are high on Lucky?  Don't be ashamed, we all have favorite players we do it for...  Smiley
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booch
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« Reply #101 on: March 13, 2020, 03:18:33 PM »

I just find it amazing that you can spot this from the stands or TV, but LaPolice, the best offensive coordinator in the CFL, who breaks down game film frame by frame for a living, was completely oblivious to it.

Do you think maybe you're experiencing a little confirmation bias because you are high on Lucky?  Don't be ashamed, we all have favorite players we do it for...  Smiley

For one...not from tv...for two...totally can see it from stands...for 3...Lapo is highly overated...4..Lapo is very stubborn and stuck in his ideals and rarely deviates...5..proven to be a non risk taker/safe coach and will use something to death even if not working..6...i break down film..analyze and prep recruits for combines/draft and development...7 i have and can get access to all 24 film from games...AND have taken such to camps and seminars in Cali where we use it for helping prospects have familiarity in the Canadian game in the chance they choose that route...

Fact of the matter..for all Lapo's pluses...he has many a wart...and have heard as such from many a player
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #102 on: March 13, 2020, 03:34:10 PM »

I just find it amazing that you can spot this from the stands or TV, but LaPolice, the best offensive coordinator in the CFL, who breaks down game film frame by frame for a living, was completely oblivious to it.

Do you think maybe you're experiencing a little confirmation bias because you are high on Lucky?  Don't be ashamed, we all have favorite players we do it for...  Smiley


The reality is that the Bombers offense is based on a very strong running game and a low risk passing game. Whether that was based to a degree on Nichols inabilities or Lapo stubbornness is almost irrelevant.

We became one of the CFL's highest scoring teams and were having winning seasons.

Having the ability to have a deep quick strike option never hurts but can we really complain about the success we had?

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the paw
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« Reply #103 on: March 13, 2020, 03:45:21 PM »

The reality is that the Bombers offense is based on a very strong running game and a low risk passing game. Whether that was based to a degree on Nichols inabilities or Lapo stubbornness is almost irrelevant.

We became one of the CFL's highest scoring teams and were having winning seasons.

Having the ability to have a deep quick strike option never hurts but can we really complain about the success we had?



That was kind of my point.  We had a very high level of success using a system designed by Lapo and with him calling the plays.  He certainly has tendencies including using the run and repeated short passing to set up occasional long strikes.  Demski has gotten loose for those deep strikes multiple times, even though he also runs primarily short routes.

I just find it implausible that Lucky is continually wide open for the deep ball and Lapo refuses to call his number because he is stubborn.  If he was open, Lapo would call his number more often.

Lucky's history, as brought forward earlier in this thread by others, is pretty clear.  He is a very talented returner, and in the NFL was used primarily as a returner, but also on jet sweeps and short passes.  There is no evidence of him being particularly effective on deep routes, at the professional level.  Lapolice has used him in a way that is consistent with his past success, and I find it more likely that Lapo was using Lucky in a way to play to his strengths, rather than just being inexplicably stubborn. 
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booch
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« Reply #104 on: March 13, 2020, 03:56:02 PM »

That was kind of my point.  We had a very high level of success using a system designed by Lapo and with him calling the plays.  He certainly has tendencies including using the run and repeated short passing to set up occasional long strikes.  Demski has gotten loose for those deep strikes multiple times, even though he also runs primarily short routes.

I just find it implausible that Lucky is continually wide open for the deep ball and Lapo refuses to call his number because he is stubborn.  If he was open, Lapo would call his number more often.

Lucky's history, as brought forward earlier in this thread by others, is pretty clear.  He is a very talented returner, and in the NFL was used primarily as a returner, but also on jet sweeps and short passes.  There is no evidence of him being particularly effective on deep routes, at the professional level.  Lapolice has used him in a way that is consistent with his past success, and I find it more likely that Lapo was using Lucky in a way to play to his strengths, rather than just being inexplicably stubborn. 

Never said repeatedly...and tho u can't always see it on tv unless they do the full field replay for Suitor to yammer on about something stupid but we have players basically ignored downfield over and over...and if you can get access to game tape...you can really see it..I not just talking Lucky either..and you could see it a lot of times in players body language the frustration, and a lot of times as a season went on their just going through motions...hardly even selling the chance the ball may come to them..and who would blame them

Also...since Lapo's second tour here as the O.C...how many big time receivers..established ones come here in free agency??...yeah...right...none and there was a reason for it...and it wasnt due to $$

Sure we have had a successful offence scoring points true, b ut it was in spite of Lapo's philosophies..he took full advantage of riding Harris until his legs were knubs Harris and playing the safe game, but we also kicked a tonne of field goals i=n his time here, and rode a pretty opportunistic turnover creating defense as well...all good things don't get me wrong but to lay all success on Lapo is insane...
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