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August 08, 2020, 05:06:50 PM *
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Author Topic: End of an Era  (Read 5441 times)
Blue In BC
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2020, 05:37:48 PM »

Actually it's 10 staring nationals.  Seven must be actual Nationals and the other three can be an import, who have been with the team for three years or in the CFL for four.  So you would still have to start guys like Desjarlais and Neufeld at guard or replace a import position, with a national.  It's kind of similar to the old rule where if a Import gets their Canadian citizenship, then they could be classified as nationals.  Guys like Angelo Mosca, did this.

The replacing of a national in game with an import is going to be hard, because not many teams have veteran imports backing up.  An example would be you guys starting Jefferson and Jeffcoat at DE with Roh as a backup and he is not a DI, Thomas goes down at DT, you can then put Roh in Thomas's spot, but you couldn't do that with a rookie import as your backup.

I think you're interpreting this incorrectly. You're point might have credibility about Roh as your example but marginally so.

Let's expand what's wrong with that idea.

1. Roh will be making more than an ELC and may not re-sign.
2. If he's not a DI he could only play as an in game replacement?
3. Can he be both a DI and a designated national? Don't think they are saying that.
4. Said player still falls within the ratio so how do you fit him on the roster?

Nothing to see here. Smoke and mirrors IMO.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2020, 05:42:31 PM »

Looks like QB's won't be able to play special teams any more unless they are kicking or holding.

Not sure about that but perhaps. A QB comes out on punts. Any player that can receive the snap in that situation is how the # 3 QB played on punt coverage teams but not K/O coverage.

I can't see teams using their # 2 QB on coverage teams. However a QB like Streveler could come in on perceived punt downs and still actually receives the snap on a fake etc.

How could they prevent that from happening even if he lined up as a FB with a punter on the field?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 05:55:16 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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ichabod_crane
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2020, 05:51:12 PM »

I seem to recall there was similar rules to "naturalize" American players after 5 years or so way back in the 1950's-60's and maybe even before that. Rosters and ratio rules were much different then though. Smaller rosters for certain & some players played both sides of the ball too.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2020, 05:57:41 PM »

Not sure about that but perhaps. A QB comes out on punts. Any player that can receive the snap in that situation is how the # 3 QB played on punt coverage teams but not K/O coverage.

I can't see teams using their # 2 QB on coverage teams. However a QB like Streveler could come in on perceived punt downs and still actually receive the snap.

How could they prevent that from happening even if he lined up as a FB with a punter on the field?
It right in the new rule:

The Players identified as quarterbacks shall be permitted to alternate for each other during the game at the quarterback position exclusively and shall not be permitted to enter the game at another position, under any circumstances. For the purposes of this paragraph, the duties of the quarterback position may include punting, place kicking, kicking off or holding the ball for the kicker on a convert or field goal attempt.

The only way Streveler could come in is as the punter.

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2020, 05:58:06 PM »

I seem to recall there was similar rules to "naturalize" American players after 5 years or so way back in the 1950's-60's and maybe even before that. Rosters and ratio rules were much different then though. Smaller rosters for certain & some players played both sides of the ball too.

Back then players stuck with one team longer. These days players change teams so often and less of them even stay in the CFL for 4 years or longer. We're seeing much more of a rotating door on rosters. Part of that is the SMS and needing to cut rising salaries by adding rookies as the real top demand excessive money ( M. Reilly example ).
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2020, 06:00:43 PM »

What is exactly ending? You still need to start 7 Canadians do you not?
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2020, 06:01:36 PM »

It right in the new rule:

The Players identified as quarterbacks shall be permitted to alternate for each other during the game at the quarterback position exclusively and shall not be permitted to enter the game at another position, under any circumstances. For the purposes of this paragraph, the duties of the quarterback position may include punting, place kicking, kicking off or holding the ball for the kicker on a convert or field goal attempt.

The only way Streveler could come in is as the punter.



Nope. So he lines up as a QB on 3rd down and then rushes down field to make a tackle.

While Streveler wouldn't play that role. Bennett in Regina might be their # 2 QB and do exactly what he did before.

Nothing I've seen says a QB and a punter can't be on the field at the same time. Medlock is a DI and effectively replaces a receiver on punts.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2020, 06:03:14 PM »

What is exactly ending? You still need to start 7 Canadians do you not?

Yes as far as I can tell but some are reading this that we can use the grandfathered 3 imports to replace Canadians as starters all the time.

That's were the interpretations are at odds.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2020, 06:04:11 PM »

Nope. So he lines up as a QB on 3rd down and then rushes down field to make a tackle.

While Streveler wouldn't play that role. Bennett in Regina might be their # 2 QB and do exactly what he did before.

Nothing I've seen says a QB and a punter can't be on the field at the same time. Medlock is a DI and effectively replaces a receiver on punts.
He can't line up at QB while someone else lines up at punter.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2020, 06:26:20 PM »

He can't line up at QB while someone else lines up at punter.

Sure he can. You could start by him lining up as a QB and Medlock lining up as a FB or receiver. Then as the play develops players go into motion and move into other spots. We see that with direct snaps to a RB on trick fake punts. 

The only difference would be the QB lining up as a QB to start and then actually moving the punter into the direct snap position and punting.

It's somewhat moot as I said I doubt teams risk their # 2 QB to play on ST's. In the case of the Bombers it wouldn't have ever been Streveler on ST's.

I am curious to see if Bennett remains as the # 2 QB in Regina and whether he continues in his ST role.

In the meantime we'll agree to disagree and see what teams do.

Medlock is a DI. You could call him a receiver and he could still be the only kicker.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2020, 06:33:12 PM »

So, designate 3 Int vet's as nats and increase the starting Nats from 7 to 10?  What does that accomplish?  

It is getting more confusing...

You can roster more than 2 QB's... QB's receive a specific designation, the active roster is 45 players, (21 nats, 20 Ints, 2 global and 2 QBs), if you choose to roster a 3rb QB, does than mean you can run a 46 man AR?  If no, and you have to lose an Int (roster only 19) and one of the QB's is a nat/global, does that mean you can still roster 20 Ints?  

What necessitated this change?  It doesn't create continuity (3 years with a team, 4 in the league for this phony passport you can only use on 3 players).  It doesn't change the roster / starters, really... it does make vets a little more valuable, but there are well more than three that fit that bill on every team.  

Is it to make players feel more "Canadian"?  So they can do "Skip the Dishes" commercials with John Hamm?

I don't get it...

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TBURGESS
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« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2020, 06:39:07 PM »

Sure he can. You could start by him lining up as a QB and Medlock lining up as a FB or receiver. Then as the play develops players go into motion and move into other spots. We see that with direct snaps to a RB on trick fake punts. 

The only difference would be the QB lining up as a QB to start and then actually moving the punter into the direct snap position and punting.

It's somewhat moot as I said I doubt teams risk their # 2 QB to play on ST's. In the case of the Bombers it wouldn't have ever been Streveler on ST's.

I am curious to see if Bennett remains as the # 2 QB in Regina and whether he continues in his ST role.

In the meantime we'll agree to disagree and see what teams do.

Medlock is a DI. You could call him a receiver and he could still be the only kicker.

We will never see that. You're going to great lengths to try to get around the rule that QB can only play QB or punter.

In your scenario, as soon as the QB moves out of the QB spot to allow the ball to be snapped to a punter, he's no longer a QB and the penalty flag would fly for illegal substitution.
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GCn19
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« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2020, 06:40:39 PM »

I just read the CFLPA memo to players on the CBA changes, as posted at 3downnation.

Based on what I read, I am serving notice that this will be my last year as a season ticket holder, and probably the last that I follow the league closely on-line throughout the year.  I have already committed to my seatmates for the current season, so I guess this year will be the long goodbye.

I know different people have different opinions, but the idea of creating Fake Canadians by designating 3 year American vets as Canadians for the starting ratio is reprehensible.  Not only does it remove Canadians from starting positions, but it does it in such a duplicitous way. Instead of just dropping the ratio requirement lower, we create ersatz Canadians.  It's snake oil, pure and simple. 

For me, seeing how GMs and coaches manage the ratio is the most entertaining part of the off-season discussion, and is what makes the draft and free agency strategy so important.  With this development, the importance of the CFL draft is negligible. 

Only time will tell if Ambrosie's vision is necessary for the economic survival of the league.  But if changing into something unrecognizable is the cost of survival, well, I just can say that I really want no part of it. 

You got this all wrong. The NAT requirement remains virtually unchanged but makes vets a hot commodity now. Forces teams who do not want to pay experience to play NAT starters instead. As pointed out the NAT requirement is now 10 players.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2020, 06:45:18 PM »

We will never see that. You're going to great lengths to try to get around the rule that QB can only play QB or punter.

In your scenario, as soon as the QB moves out of the QB spot to allow the ball to be snapped to a punter, he's no longer a QB and the penalty flag would fly for illegal substitution.

That's not true any more than it was last year when QB's played on ST's. By your suggestion you're saying a direct snap would be illegal on a fake punt. It's not illegal to field a QB on 3rd down he doesn't have to sneak.

We saw Streveler move out to a receiver position and actually getting a reception at least once. From Adams IIRC.

Illegal substitution my butt. That's absurd.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 06:50:33 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2020, 06:47:36 PM »

You got this all wrong. The NAT requirement remains virtually unchanged but makes vets a hot commodity now. Forces teams who do not want to pay experience to play NAT starters instead. As pointed out the NAT requirement is now 10 players.

That can't be right.
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