Blue Bombers Forum
August 12, 2020, 07:54:35 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 33
  Print  
Author Topic: 2020 Free Agents  (Read 27263 times)
Blue In BC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24761


« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2019, 03:57:51 PM »

Here's 11 words for you.  Ricky Ray, Trevor Harris, Mike Reilly, Bo Levi Mitchell, Zach Collaros.   

All guys who took their first opportunity to start a chunk of games and never looked back. 

So you can name 5 QB's in the history of the CFL. How many more have been flashes in the pan. I guarantee that list would be a lot longer.

Casey Printers, Marcus Crandal, Joe 747 Adams, Drew Tate all looked good early.

Not to say Evans is not the next great QB but you can also look at the struggles Harris has had since becoming a starter. Lots of yards, not many wins etc etc. Mike Reilly had a horrible 1st season in Edmonton.
Logged

No more excuses.
the paw
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3988


« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2019, 04:14:06 PM »

So you can name 5 QB's in the history of the CFL. How many more have been flashes in the pan. I guarantee that list would be a lot longer.

Casey Printers, Marcus Crandal, Joe 747 Adams, Drew Tate all looked good early.

Not to say Evans is not the next great QB but you can also look at the struggles Harris has had since becoming a starter. Lots of yards, not many wins etc etc. Mike Reilly had a horrible 1st season in Edmonton.

Well, I didn't go through the whole history of the league, those are 5 very recent guys, all contemporaries of Jennings.  It's not to say a guy can't be a flash in the pan, but Evans sample size was pretty good. 

And Reilly did not have a terrible season in 2013, he threw for 4200 yards and a 24-18 TD/INT ratio.  The Esks as a team has a bad year, going 4-14, don't conflate the two.   And if Harris is your idea of a struggling QB, then you better take another look at Masoli.  Harris has outperformed Masoli hands down. 

C'mon man, don't dig the hole any deeper.   I will admit there is a certain chance that Evans could flame out.  But based on his body of work, in the context of how most QBs develop, he is much more likely to be a successful starter than Jennings 2.0.
Logged

grab grass 'n growl
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2865


« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2019, 04:33:49 PM »

Well, I didn't go through the whole history of the league, those are 5 very recent guys, all contemporaries of Jennings.  It's not to say a guy can't be a flash in the pan, but Evans sample size was pretty good. 

And Reilly did not have a terrible season in 2013, he threw for 4200 yards and a 24-18 TD/INT ratio.  The Esks as a team has a bad year, going 4-14, don't conflate the two.   And if Harris is your idea of a struggling QB, then you better take another look at Masoli.  Harris has outperformed Masoli hands down. 

C'mon man, don't dig the hole any deeper.   I will admit there is a certain chance that Evans could flame out.  But based on his body of work, in the context of how most QBs develop, he is much more likely to be a successful starter than Jennings 2.0.

Evan's sample size is not as big as Jennings was...Jennings in a season and a bit chucked for 7200 some yards with 42 to 25 TD to Int ratio, as well as ran for over 500 yards, Evans has a somehwhat smaller sample size..inferior stats...and we all seen what happened to JeniNngs when the book on him was out, so anointing Evan's as the next sure thing with no fear of regression, or flaming out wouldn't be a wise move by any G.M
Logged
Pigskin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5752


« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2019, 05:12:30 PM »

I will add Travis Lulay to our list.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 05:50:49 PM by Pigskin » Logged
Blue In BC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24761


« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2019, 05:17:31 PM »

Well, I didn't go through the whole history of the league, those are 5 very recent guys, all contemporaries of Jennings.  It's not to say a guy can't be a flash in the pan, but Evans sample size was pretty good. 

And Reilly did not have a terrible season in 2013, he threw for 4200 yards and a 24-18 TD/INT ratio.  The Esks as a team has a bad year, going 4-14, don't conflate the two.   And if Harris is your idea of a struggling QB, then you better take another look at Masoli.  Harris has outperformed Masoli hands down. 

C'mon man, don't dig the hole any deeper.   I will admit there is a certain chance that Evans could flame out.  But based on his body of work, in the context of how most QBs develop, he is much more likely to be a successful starter than Jennings 2.0.

I think your point about Reilly or even Masoli proves my point more than yours. A QB, any QB is not the only reason a team wins or loses.  Hamilton had a very good overall roster. They gave up the least amount of points on defense.

Evans played a role in that success but he's getting too much credit too soon. A lot of 1st season starters struggle in their next following season if they in fact remain as the starter. History generally shows that in the development current.

You want more recent examples: James Franklin and our very own C. Streveler. Defenses quickly adjusted to them after their 1st seasons of starting or playing more games.

Doesn't mean Streveler can't become a good passer but it was no surprise he'd have more problems passing in his 2nd season.

Logged

No more excuses.
the paw
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3988


« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2019, 06:40:42 PM »

I think your point about Reilly or even Masoli proves my point more than yours. A QB, any QB is not the only reason a team wins or loses.  Hamilton had a very good overall roster. They gave up the least amount of points on defense.

Evans played a role in that success but he's getting too much credit too soon. A lot of 1st season starters struggle in their next following season if they in fact remain as the starter. History generally shows that in the development current.

You want more recent examples: James Franklin and our very own C. Streveler. Defenses quickly adjusted to them after their 1st seasons of starting or playing more games.

Doesn't mean Streveler can't become a good passer but it was no surprise he'd have more problems passing in his 2nd season.



Well, if you are making the case that Evans rode a loaded roster to a great record, I can't disagree. He also had a very good OC.  But he also passes the eyeball test, at least for me.  I don't think he is likely to regress, at least not crash-and-burn like Jennings. 

I don't think Franklin or Streveler are good comparables.  Franklin showed well in spot duty, but he never got a sustained series of starts over a season until this year, when he crapped the bed.  And if you will forgive the blasphemy, Streveler's initial emergency starts were not so much successful as they were just plain exciting to watch.  It was a very small sample size, so I don't think it is fair to say he regressed this year.  I think it is more accurate to say that he finally accumulated enough starts between the two years to really gauge where he is as a QB.  And the answer is "not starter material yet". 

Anyway, perhaps I am overvaluing Evans somewhat, but the Jennings example is not compelling proof that he is going to falter.  And even if it makes a certain logical sense for the Cats to try to bring Masoli back to have the best of both worlds, from a business and leverage standpoint, I think it has problems.  But as always, we will see in the fullness of time....
Logged

grab grass 'n growl
3rdand1.5
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3562


« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2019, 07:54:32 PM »

I hope Fajardo, Evans, Arbuckle, Adams, MBT and Streveler all turn into long tenured high caliber CFL QB's. It would be great for the league and entertainment. I am sure not all of them will.

But my 2 cents and that's all its worth is....Evans and Arbuckle are the two most likely to be the next great QB's of the list.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 04:36:34 AM by ModAdmin » Logged
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2865


« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2019, 07:56:49 PM »

I hope Fajardo, Evans, Arbuckle, Adams, MBT and Strevelor all turn into long tenured high caliber CFL QB's. It would be great for the league and entertainment. I am sure not all of them will.

But my 2 cents and that's all its worth is....Evans and Arbuckle are the two most likely to be the next great QB's of the list.

Are you saying just those 2 because our neighbors to the West already claim Fatardo is?...lol
Logged
Jesse
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13680



« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2019, 08:06:23 PM »

I hope Fajardo, Evans, Arbuckle, Adams, MBT and Streveler all turn into long tenured high caliber CFL QB's. It would be great for the league and entertainment. I am sure not all of them will.

But my 2 cents and that's all its worth is....Evans and Arbuckle are the two most likely to be the next great QB's of the list.

They're not the two most likely, they're just the two we've seen the least of.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 04:36:57 AM by ModAdmin » Logged

My wife is amazing!
Blue In BC
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24761


« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2019, 08:44:30 PM »

Well, if you are making the case that Evans rode a loaded roster to a great record, I can't disagree. He also had a very good OC.  But he also passes the eyeball test, at least for me.  I don't think he is likely to regress, at least not crash-and-burn like Jennings. 

I don't think Franklin or Streveler are good comparables.  Franklin showed well in spot duty, but he never got a sustained series of starts over a season until this year, when he crapped the bed.  And if you will forgive the blasphemy, Streveler's initial emergency starts were not so much successful as they were just plain exciting to watch.  It was a very small sample size, so I don't think it is fair to say he regressed this year.  I think it is more accurate to say that he finally accumulated enough starts between the two years to really gauge where he is as a QB.  And the answer is "not starter material yet". 

Anyway, perhaps I am overvaluing Evans somewhat, but the Jennings example is not compelling proof that he is going to falter.  And even if it makes a certain logical sense for the Cats to try to bring Masoli back to have the best of both worlds, from a business and leverage standpoint, I think it has problems.  But as always, we will see in the fullness of time....

I like Evans and I don't think he'll crash and burn ala Jennings. OTOH I don't expect he'll be the starter in Hamilton if the Ticats are able to sign Masoli. IMO they will look to do that. Currently Masoli is their # 1 QB IMO.

Evans still has a steep learning curve. Teams will adjust to him now that the there is more film on him. If as I suspect Masoli is re-signed then Evans will have him as a mentor but could see substantially less game time.

That will be no different than Arbuckle if he stays in Calgary. The difference being is that Arbuckle could leave for greener pastures while Evans cannot.

If Evans was offered up in trade for a 1st round pick I'd be interested. Don't see that happening either.
Logged

No more excuses.
the paw
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3988


« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2019, 01:35:44 AM »

I hope Fajardo, Evans, Arbuckle, Adams, MBT and Streveler all turn into long tenured high caliber CFL QB's. It would be great for the league and entertainment. I am sure not all of them will.

But my 2 cents and that's all its worth is....Evans and Arbuckle are the two most likely to be the next great QB's of the list.

I think Adams is going to be a terrific CFL QB, particularly if he can stick with Khari.  It took him a little while to get his mind right, but all he does is win.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 04:37:15 AM by ModAdmin » Logged

grab grass 'n growl
blue_or_die
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8230



« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2019, 02:28:18 AM »

I think Adams is going to be a terrific CFL QB, particularly if he can stick with Khari.  It took him a little while to get his mind right, but all he does is win.

Bombers-Als Grey Cup at Mosaic. Book it!
Logged

107th Grey Cup champs and WE ARE LIT
dd
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8297


« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2019, 02:33:17 AM »

Adams has got to mature /grow up/quit being an emotional time bomb. He needs to control his emotions a lot more than he does. His helmet swinging episode with biggie this year was ridiculous and bush league. He?s got to learn he isn?t untouchable and players are allowed to and will hit him, grow up and accept that he carry on like some self absorbed spoiled brat
Logged
TecnoGenius
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4398


« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2019, 04:30:33 AM »

With all due respect your studies don't mean crap. Every situation has it's own variables and therefore cannot be directly compared. Experience does count for sure, how much it counts is highly variable and unique to each player. Some guys can come in and take the league some storm, some take years of grooming.

We're not talking about new QBs being/becoming immediately good.  We're talking about them reaching and winning GCs.  Completely different things.  My "study" isn't crap, it's just the hard numbers.  Interpret them as you like.

Even the wunderkinds that come and "take the league by storm" don't win GCs.  I just checked, and guess what?  Flutie won his first GC in his 3rd year starting.  BLM won his first GC in his 3rd year starting.  The only QB I could remember in modern times coming close to winning a GC earlier was Ray, who won it in his 2nd year starting.  However, he did have the fortune of getting a GC start (and loss) in his first year due to Maas' injury.  If you can think of any other early-GC-win QBs in history, let me know.  Apart from those 3 prodigies, and maybe a couple I forgot, all the other GC winners have 6,7,8,9,10,11 CFL years under their belt before they win it all!

Here's the thing: I fully agree with you that Evans looked great all season and seems to have solidified himself as a future CFL starter.  Maybe he'll regress, who knows, but that's not the point.  The point is that I'm pretty sure Evans is no Flutie, BLM or Ray, and if those guys (except Ray) needed 3 years starting to win a GC, I'd say Evans will (in all likelihood) need more.

And that's the whole point: HAM is a strong team and they want to capitalize with a GC win while the iron is hot!  Just like WPG needed to do in '18 and '19.  If they are as smart as The Mafia, they will look at the GC loss and say "what roster tweaks would have put us over the top"?  And if they are smart they will immediately see that a big (biggest?) tweak is QB.

The best part is they don't even need to do something like attract an outside QB!  They just need to resign Masoli who is a died-in-the-wool Ti-Cat.  Boom.  Now, concentrate on tweaking that horrid OL.

The other thing is, I don't know about you, but Masoli looked by far like the best QB in the CFL in '19 before he went down to injury.  Masoli + Banks + Addison seriously looked unstoppable.  BLM was having his ugliest season start (and ugliest season end!) ever.  MR also, because his team, stunk.  Going into 2020 Masoli might actually be the best QB in the league, and a proven one with 7 years in the CFL (almost precisely the average for winning the GC...).  And that is why HAM will re-sign him and Masoli starts week 1!

The best part about all of this pontification on everyone's part is that we'll all know who's correct in very short order!  If HAM wants Masoli, I doubt they let him get to FA.  If I'm wrong, well I'm wrong, and whoever gets Masoli should be one powerhouse team in 2020!

People trying to discredit his success because he was a first year starter is pathetic. It should actually be the opposite that people should be wondering, after a very good season, just how high this guy's upside really is. Hamilton would be monumentally stupid to not give him the rock and let him continue his climb by parking him on the bench for 1-2 more years. He has clearly demonstrated he can play at a very high level and the experience he has gained from this year's GC will help him immensely in preparation for the future.

Absolutely no one, especially me, tried to "discredit Evans success"!  He had an amazing year!  I don't think anyone disputes that.  We just question whether HAM has the best chance to win the GC in 2020 with Masoli or Evans.  In my opinion Evans was for sure the "best of the backups" in 2019.  What you're doing is "discrediting" Masoli and how good he is, and what he has done for the HAM organization.  Now, whether Evans rises or regresses remains to be seen.  It's anyone's guess at this point.  The people who mention Jennings are fairly correct in that both Evans and Jennings looked like superstars out of the gate.  I see nothing to indicate that Evans can't be the next Jennings.  I also see nothing to indicate he won't be a future R.Ray, but odds say he's not.  It's all guesswork and opinion at this point!  Everyone can have their opinion.

I hope Fajardo, Evans, Arbuckle, Adams, MBT and Streveler all turn into long tenured high caliber CFL QB's. It would be great for the league and entertainment. I am sure not all of them will.

But my 2 cents and that's all its worth is....Evans and Arbuckle are the two most likely to be the next great QB's of the list.

Fully agree.  Compare 2019's backups with the awful backups the CFL saw between 2013-2017!  The CFL must have hit the talent jackpot for some reason, and what fan wouldn't appreciate that?

I'm hard on Fine Upstanding Cody (and Pirate Arbuckle) but I'd rather watch them play than Cato and Brohm!  But do I think teams should (or will) drop their excellent #1's to roll the dice with the 1-year wonders?  Not if they want to win GCs they shouldn't!!  That's why it's so beautiful to see SSK possibly make their biggest mistake in years...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 04:37:50 AM by ModAdmin » Logged

Never go full Rider!
Pigskin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5752


« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2019, 02:46:35 PM »

I find all this talk about the young QB's not being ready is a load of crap. Evans and Arbuckle had better stats this year then Bo and Masoli. Fajardo finally got a chance and proved that he could start in the CFL and did a very good job for the Riders. MBT was on a crappy team and put up some pretty good numbers. Adams had a very good year under KJ. This is also happening in the NFL, young QB's stepping up and playing very well.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 08:07:18 PM by Pigskin » Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 33
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!