Blue Bombers Forum
August 08, 2020, 02:52:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Would Andrew Harris Be This Mad If He Was Guilty?  (Read 4934 times)
3rdand1.5
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3562


« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2019, 06:12:42 PM »

Fact; He was caught with a banned substance in his system more than the limit set out to be allowed. Fact; he had it re-tested and it also failed. Fact; he passed his test after the suspension. As of now that is all that's fact everything else is opinion and he said, she said.

He IS guilty as it WAS in his system. He claims he did not know how it happened, many people believe him, many people do not believe him. Believer or non believer in what he is telling you is your choice and your right and one side is no-more-correct than the other
Logged
GCn19
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24802


« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2019, 06:23:28 PM »


Hey there, road kill is good eats, don't be knocking the Way.

When I was a teenager growing up I had a trapline for extra money. I had just finished checking my traps and had the haul in the back of a half ton and decided to stop for lunch at a restaurant owned by a gentleman whose culture accepts eating cats and dogs. He was outside sweeping in front and he looked in the back of my truck and saw a couple beavers and a coyote. He asked me what I was going to do with these animals. Told him I was going to sell the fur. He asked me if I ate the meat. I said no way that meat is no good. He looked at me and said "All meat is good meat". Since his was the only restaurant in town, I had no choice but to not worry about mystery meat after that.
Logged

Some people take this forum way too seriously.
GCn19
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24802


« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2019, 06:26:19 PM »

Fact; He was caught with a banned substance in his system more than the limit set out to be allowed. Fact; he had it re-tested and it also failed. Fact; he passed his test after the suspension. As of now that is all that's fact everything else is opinion and he said, she said.

He IS guilty as it WAS in his system. He claims he did not know how it happened, many people believe him, many people do not believe him. Believer or non believer in what he is telling you is your choice and your right and one side is no-more-correct than the other

There is no acceptable limit for a banned substance. Even the miniscule trace found in Harris's blood is a violation of the rule. I don't for one second accept the premise that Harris knowingly took steroids. I, also, do not for one second accept the premise that Harris did not know the dangers of tainted supplements.
Logged

Some people take this forum way too seriously.
theaardvark
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 29366



« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2019, 07:03:35 PM »

Fact; He was caught with a banned substance in his system more than the limit set out to be allowed. Fact; he had it re-tested and it also failed. Fact; he passed his test after the suspension. As of now that is all that's fact everything else is opinion and he said, she said.

He IS guilty as it WAS in his system. He claims he did not know how it happened, many people believe him, many people do not believe him. Believer or non believer in what he is telling you is your choice and your right and one side is no-more-correct than the other

The debate is not whether he was guilty of having a banned substance in his system.  The debate is :

Did he do so knowingly in an attempt to increase his competitive level.

Does anyone think that the level and type of substance he tested positive for would enhance him at all? 

There is no way that he would have gained competitive advantage with the product used, in the amount detected.  Just not a reasonable concept.  Add to that, he was, at the time, the leading rusher in the league and at the top of his game... why would he want/need to cheat?  How does one improve upon "best"?
Logged

Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.
Jesse
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 13680



« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2019, 08:02:55 PM »

The debate is not whether he was guilty of having a banned substance in his system.  The debate is :

Did he do so knowingly in an attempt to increase his competitive level.

Does anyone think that the level and type of substance he tested positive for would enhance him at all? 

There is no way that he would have gained competitive advantage with the product used, in the amount detected.  Just not a reasonable concept.  Add to that, he was, at the time, the leading rusher in the league and at the top of his game... why would he want/need to cheat?  How does one improve upon "best"?

A lot of the arguments you're making are based on the premise that you believe Andrew Harris. And that's fine, but there's very few actual facts.

All we know is the name of the substance and that it was in his system. Everything else is taken on faith.
Logged

My wife is amazing!
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2864


« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2019, 08:17:18 PM »

A lot of the arguments you're making are based on the premise that you believe Andrew Harris. And that's fine, but there's very few actual facts.

All we know is the name of the substance and that it was in his system. Everything else is taken on faith.

I know the substance, the role and use of it..benefits...negative effects..side effects....among many many others...pro's and con's of PED's and training for football, very well versed in it I can say, not an expert, but probably know more than any media guy, anyone on this forum, and more than your average player...as was a user, and reluctantly I will say supplied and administered it to athletes,to reach certain "potentials" as well as role of newer things now like peptides (which many an athlete is utilizing)

I can with 100 percent certainty say that the trace amount of the drug he had in his system was taken unintentionally and unbeknownst to him..just not a readily available drug, not of benefit for a speed and skill athlete and would actually be a performance decreaser, not an enhancer and would cause more negative results than anything positive. There are wayyyy better things he could have been on..safer...actually available (which the one he is on isn't) and one that I havn't heard being available from a trusted supplier in decades in Canada, let alone Winnipeg

Believe what you want but if he was using that drug in the amount required to gain strength and mass benefits..which it was intended for he would have looked like a bloated momo who if u poked with a pin would pop..
Logged
TBURGESS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8073



« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2019, 10:18:32 PM »

It doesn't matter if the banned PED would have helped him or not. He took the supplement thinking it would help him, otherwise he wouldn't have taken it at all. Maybe a player said to Harris, I'm using supplement "Z" and its great. Harris decides to add it to his regime in season and it turns out that it's got a banned PED in it. That doesn't change the fact that he tested positive.

Who would have told Harris that the supplement was legal? The guy who sold it to him? How would he even know for sure if, as others have stated, there are no tests.
Logged

Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.
rubanski
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1850


« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2019, 01:42:21 PM »

It doesn't matter if the banned PED would have helped him or not. He took the supplement thinking it would help him, otherwise he wouldn't have taken it at all. Maybe a player said to Harris, I'm using supplement "Z" and its great. Harris decides to add it to his regime in season and it turns out that it's got a banned PED in it. That doesn't change the fact that he tested positive.

Who would have told Harris that the supplement was legal? The guy who sold it to him? How would he even know for sure if, as others have stated, there are no tests.

I agree wholeheartedly. Furthermore, the testing system is flawed. There's all kinds of masking agents to hide what you're taking. OK, the stuff Harris was taking gives him no advantage, what if his supplements had stuff that did, and also some masking agents?

He was an idiot for taking something not on the approved list. He paid the price, let's move on.
Logged
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2864


« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2019, 02:00:52 PM »

I agree wholeheartedly. Furthermore, the testing system is flawed. There's all kinds of masking agents to hide what you're taking. OK, the stuff Harris was taking gives him no advantage, what if his supplements had stuff that did, and also some masking agents?

He was an idiot for taking something not on the approved list. He paid the price, let's move on.
There are hundreds of supps that aren't on the approved list that are just fine and this "approved" list is just brands that have paid to have that designation. So then there are 1000's of idiot athletes out there because everyone doesn't live by this list...sorry to rain on your parade..I was a part owner in a Supplement Store/personal Training facility in Winnipeg several years back, and trained some players not just on the Bombers, but other teams in the CFL as well, and most if not all bought stuff not on the "approved" list and they were not idiots...but it was common knowledge and known they were just fine, it's just the company felt no need to pay to have the designation as their brand reputation spoke volumes

Also, a company will not add ped's as well as masking agents into a supplement as it would make no sense cost wise, in order to re-coup their costs and make a profit it would be at a price point nobody would buy.

There are many reputable brands currently not on this "approved" list that guys use daily..and not sure what a lot of you people think supplements are, but for the most part supplements have no performance enhancing properties anyway, and 80 percent are basically a waste of your money and you can get same benefits from food.

Over the counter meds like sudafed and similar brands are on the banned list for what its worth..
Logged
theaardvark
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 29366



« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2019, 02:04:21 PM »

It doesn't matter if the banned PED would have helped him or not. He took the supplement thinking it would help him, otherwise he wouldn't have taken it at all. Maybe a player said to Harris, I'm using supplement "Z" and its great. Harris decides to add it to his regime in season and it turns out that it's got a banned PED in it. That doesn't change the fact that he tested positive.

Who would have told Harris that the supplement was legal? The guy who sold it to him? How would he even know for sure if, as others have stated, there are no tests.

There are tests (expensive) and packaging/labeling laws (totally at the manufacturers compliance level) as well as legal issues with putting this substance (controlled) in an over the counter supplement.  

Of course, whoever was selling it made sure Harris thought it was legal.  They probably thought it was.  Others than may have used it might not have had to be tested.  

The facts remain, it is not something that would have aided his training at all.  He was already the best.  There is no reason for him to risk taking an ineffective and inappropriate product and risk the outcome that actually happened.  So the whole idea he was "Cheating" is moot.  He broke the rules, but it certainly wasn't cheating...

Cheating:
"1.act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination."
Logged

Unabashed positron.  Blue koolaid in my fridge.  I wear my blue sunglasses at night.  Homer, d'oh.
TBURGESS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8073



« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2019, 02:47:50 PM »

The fact's are that it's banned substance, he had it in his system and he failed a PED test. The rest is conjecture.

If he went off of the 'approved list' then he took the chance and he got busted. It doesn't matter if hundreds of others do it too. The amount in his system doesn't matter. Whether it really helped or not doesn't matter. Whether the sales guy told him it should be fine or not doesn't matter. These are all justifications.

What matters is he got caught, lost 2 games, lost his chance to be MOP this year and lost a chance to be Canada's athlete of the year.
Logged

Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.
booch
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2864


« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2019, 02:52:48 PM »

The fact's are that it's banned substance, he had it in his system and he failed a PED test. The rest is conjecture.

If he went off of the 'approved list' then he took the chance and he got busted. It doesn't matter if hundreds of others do it too. The amount in his system doesn't matter. Whether it really helped or not doesn't matter. Whether the sales guy told him it should be fine or not doesn't matter. These are all justifications.

What matters is he got caught, lost 2 games, lost his chance to be MOP this year and lost a chance to be Canada's athlete of the year.

You make it sound like..or seem like he was secretly taking something he knows was a performance enhancing banned substance...and got caught...foolish him, but that wasn't the case....but yeah he had a substance in his system...unknown to him, and pretty much unintended to him....and it's not because he was foolish to go away from the "approved" list...drop that narrative as I bet close to all the players in the league are taking supplements not on that list...actually...i will change that statement...I know the majority are
Logged
TBURGESS
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8073



« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2019, 03:07:06 PM »

You make it sound like..or seem like he was secretly taking something he knows was a performance enhancing banned substance...and got caught...foolish him, but that wasn't the case....but yeah he had a substance in his system...unknown to him, and pretty much unintended to him....and it's not because he was foolish to go away from the "approved" list...drop that narrative as I bet close to all the players in the league are taking supplements not on that list...actually...i will change that statement...I know the majority are
Nope, I'm simply choosing facts over conjecture. I'm not pretending to know anything more than he got caught with an illegal PED in his system.

You're using the 'everyone else is doing it' argument that 6 year old's use. I'm sure your mother asked you 'If everyone was jumping off a cliff, would you?'. It was a valid question then. It's a valid question now. It doesn't matter that everyone's doing it. Harris is the one who got caught and paid the price.

The whole thing should have been over after he served his 2 game suspension, but here we are months later rehashing it. Time to let it go.
Logged

Winnipeg Blue Bombers - 2019 Grey Cup Champs.
blue_or_die
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8219



« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2019, 03:10:56 PM »

Nope, I'm simply choosing facts over conjecture. I'm not pretending to know anything more than he got caught with an illegal PED in his system.

You're using the 'everyone else is doing it' argument that 6 year old's use. I'm sure your mother asked you 'If everyone was jumping off a cliff, would you?'. It was a valid question then. It's a valid question now. It doesn't matter that everyone's doing it. Harris is the one who got caught and paid the price.

The whole thing should have been over after he served his 2 game suspension, but here we are months later rehashing it. Time to let it go.

Well there's no doubt that the banned substance was found in his system objectively and that as per rules he served the defined punishment. However, there is still a case in the court of public opinion that isn't going to disappear overnight just because the test and suspension are over. That's what this is about.
Logged

107th Grey Cup champs and WE ARE LIT
Throw Long Bannatyne
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7269



« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2019, 06:31:09 PM »

Well there's no doubt that the banned substance was found in his system objectively and that as per rules he served the defined punishment. However, there is still a case in the court of public opinion that isn't going to disappear overnight just because the test and suspension are over. That's what this is about.

Harris haters and Riderfans are never going to let it go or forget it happened.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!