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Author Topic: Nichols or Collaros  (Read 44509 times)
New_Earth_Mud
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My Past iz Muddy


« Reply #540 on: December 13, 2019, 02:25:39 AM »

I agree all around. Would prefer Hall be gone. I can see a serious regress if he is here again next year.

Buck show with Zack and Strev works! Looks like Arbuckle ain?t coming here anytime soon. Stick with what worked great last season.

Nichols can go away. No doubt he is a character player but his pocket presence is always lacking and lacks mobility. Serious throwing shoulder injury from a guy who wasn?t the greatest at throwing long balls to start with?mmmm, no thanks.


Agree
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Horseman
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« Reply #541 on: December 13, 2019, 02:33:26 AM »


Agree


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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #542 on: December 13, 2019, 08:34:30 AM »

Could be the contrary. Maybe Lapo lacked trust in Nichols and the new OC opens up the book and allows him to stretch the field more?

That's 66Chevelle's theory.  Where is 66 anyhow?  I bet he was at the GC, and he went quiet around the playoffs last year too.  You guys may be right.  The beauty of it is we may get to find out!  However, if OC is Buck, chances are he continues with the Lapo book and paradigm as he slowly makes it his own.

I agree all around. Would prefer Hall be gone. I can see a serious regress if he is here again next year.

There it is!  The first "fire Hall" post after he won the GC for us.  Only waited 3 weeks.  We predicted it in threads mid year.  Here it is.  Didn't think it would be you Goldie!

You guys did see our D in the GC (and WSF and WF) right?  Sure, the players had mega-hunger, sure they played lights out, but they were playing Hall's scheme!  Hall smoke & mirrored all the opponents all season in order to shock the beejebus out of them in the post-season.  No one -- no one -- saw what our D did to HAM coming.  Our D was so dominant that we might have won with just a hobbled Strev at QB.

If Hall wants to stay (vs retire), he's our guaranteed DC.

Hall has been vindicated!

And I for one am glad.  I can't believe this is actually still going to be an issue.  If MOS gets wind of this he'll be rolling his eyes overtime.

Oh ya, remind me: How many other DC's in the league have 2 GC rings as DC?

#1 D.
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booch
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« Reply #543 on: December 13, 2019, 01:23:46 PM »

I agree all around. Would prefer Hall be gone. I can see a serious regress if he is here again next year.

Buck show with Zack and Strev works! Looks like Arbuckle ain?t coming here anytime soon. Stick with what worked great last season.

Nichols can go away. No doubt he is a character player but his pocket presence is always lacking and lacks mobility. Serious throwing shoulder injury from a guy who wasn?t the greatest at throwing long balls to start with?mmmm, no thanks.

I don't, it's not a matter of the players just took bull by the horns and stepped up and won cause they willed their way to it

Hall totallt morphed the defensive philosophy/scheme the last 3-4 games of the season and in the play-offs, and if you watch some games and can understand concepts and subtle differences/variations...it's pretty obvious

Even comments from BLM as well as Steinhauer confirms it...teams were standing there with jock in their hands wondering *** happened to the bombers tendancies based on down and distance from al year, and the different fronts and blitz packages they showed...also the key to the whole thing was Maston, then Alexander position switch
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #544 on: December 13, 2019, 01:43:24 PM »

That's 66Chevelle's theory.  Where is 66 anyhow?  I bet he was at the GC, and he went quiet around the playoffs last year too.  You guys may be right.  The beauty of it is we may get to find out!  However, if OC is Buck, chances are he continues with the Lapo book and paradigm as he slowly makes it his own.

There it is!  The first "fire Hall" post after he won the GC for us.  Only waited 3 weeks.  We predicted it in threads mid year.  Here it is.  Didn't think it would be you Goldie!

You guys did see our D in the GC (and WSF and WF) right?  Sure, the players had mega-hunger, sure they played lights out, but they were playing Hall's scheme!  Hall smoke & mirrored all the opponents all season in order to shock the beejebus out of them in the post-season.  No one -- no one -- saw what our D did to HAM coming.  Our D was so dominant that we might have won with just a hobbled Strev at QB.

If Hall wants to stay (vs retire), he's our guaranteed DC.

Hall has been vindicated!

And I for one am glad.  I can't believe this is actually still going to be an issue.  If MOS gets wind of this he'll be rolling his eyes overtime.

Oh ya, remind me: How many other DC's in the league have 2 GC rings as DC?

#1 D.

Chevy wasn't at the GC....he sent me a personal message saying he was unable to renew his passport in time as he didn't see us winning even the WSF with Strevs.  Then out of nowhere, we pick up Collaros and win 4 straight!  He actually offered to buy my GC ticket just because I have been a Bomber fan for 6 decades and never been to a Grey Cup game!!  As much as I was totally flattered and humbled by the offer, I found and paid for my own ticket.

I really miss his posts and was hoping to read his take on the whole playoff and Cup run!   For whatever reason, he takes a lot of uncalled for personal flack on this forum.   
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booch
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« Reply #545 on: December 13, 2019, 01:46:02 PM »

Chevy wasn't at the GC....he sent me a personal message saying he was unable to renew his passport in time as he didn't see us winning even the WSF with Strevs.  Then out of nowhere, we pick up Collaros and win 4 straight!  He actually offered to buy my GC ticket just because I have been a Bomber fan for 6 decades and never been to a Grey Cup game!!  As much as I was totally flattered and humbled by the offer, I found and paid for my own ticket.

I really miss his posts and was hoping to read his take on the whole playoff and Cup run!   For whatever reason, he takes a lot of uncalled for personal flack on this forum.   

Cause he keeps it real and comments and sees things in a different way, much like myself...and there is noting wrong with that...Enthusiastic loyal fans, and haters see the resulkts, but don't see the true things that lead to the results, or the reason why..
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #546 on: December 13, 2019, 01:55:23 PM »

Cause he keeps it real and comments and sees things in a different way, much like myself...and there is noting wrong with that...Enthusiastic loyal fans, and haters see the resulkts, but don't see the true things that lead to the results, or the reason why..
Agreed Booch....I also enjoy your posts.   Come back Chevy!!
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #547 on: December 13, 2019, 01:57:19 PM »

I don't, it's not a matter of the players just took bull by the horns and stepped up and won cause they willed their way to it

Hall totallt morphed the defensive philosophy/scheme the last 3-4 games of the season and in the play-offs, and if you watch some games and can understand concepts and subtle differences/variations...it's pretty obvious

Even comments from BLM as well as Steinhauer confirms it...teams were standing there with jock in their hands wondering *** happened to the bombers tendancies based on down and distance from al year, and the different fronts and blitz packages they showed...also the key to the whole thing was Maston, then Alexander position switch

Great improvement over the play off run and yes he made adjustments that succeeded. OTOH will he revert to his old tendencies that exposed him over several seasons? He's still that same guy and that's the concern with him.

I doubt MOS makes a change at DC. However I'm not sure about the other coaches on the defensive side if they plan to return as other opportunities come up.

I wonder if we have any interest in adding Claybrooks in some capacity. He'd be available at low cost with the Lions picking up the difference. If one of our other defensive coaches leaves he add some valuable experience??
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booch
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« Reply #548 on: December 13, 2019, 01:57:35 PM »

Agreed Booch....I also enjoy your posts.   Come back Chevy!!

Thanks...I enjoy making them hahahahha
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booch
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« Reply #549 on: December 13, 2019, 02:01:14 PM »

Great improvement over the play off run and yes he made adjustments that succeeded. OTOH will he revert to his old tendencies that exposed him over several seasons? He's still that same guy and that's the concern with him.

I doubt MOS makes a change at DC. However I'm not sure about the other coaches on the defensive side if they plan to return as other opportunities come up.

I wonder if we have any interest in adding Claybrooks in some capacity. He'd be available at low cost with the Lions picking up the difference. If one of our other defensive coaches leaves he add some valuable experience??

Coaches evolve and even though Hall has been around a while now, he is by no means a dinosaur..so can't realistically see him moving away from something that was so successful, and if he chooses to hang em up...which I would think is the only reason he wouldn't be back, then I can see us promoting Younger, or Young, as the change kind of started when they took over when Hall was away, and I think the end product was a collaboration to be honest, so we will be in good hands and still have the continuity
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #550 on: December 13, 2019, 02:18:24 PM »

Coaches evolve and even though Hall has been around a while now, he is by no means a dinosaur..so can't realistically see him moving away from something that was so successful, and if he chooses to hang em up...which I would think is the only reason he wouldn't be back, then I can see us promoting Younger, or Young, as the change kind of started when they took over when Hall was away, and I think the end product was a collaboration to be honest, so we will be in good hands and still have the continuity

I repeat: it was 4 games. Evolution is gradual. This was not a gradual change, it was like a switch was flipped to on for a month.  Human nature reverts to longer tendencies.

One thing that comes to mind is that we got to play Fajardo coming off an injury and Evans who was a 1st year starter. For once in our play off runs we came up against oppositions with more obstacles ( injuries etc ) than we did.

Would we have seen the same schemes and results if Masoli had been healthy? We'll never know. You only get to play the teams / rosters that show up on game day.

He's still the DC that collapsed during several games during the season resulting in our 3rd place finish in 2019 and other memorable losses before.

Hard not to get swept up in the " what have you done for us lately " when " lately " was extremely successful. OTOH looking at the longer sample can't be ignored either.

Perhaps more of the earlier failures were due to roster issues beyond his control. The late season changes with Alexander, Taylor and Maston seemed to come together at the right time.

Regardless I never felt MOS would make a change. Winning the Grey Cup just made it easier to not make a change IMO. I expect Hall will be back.

EDIT: I might add that the defense in the WDF gave up 456 yards which was a more typical result for Hall. There were a couple of decisive moments where the Riders fell on their own sword. In particular the 2nd and goal where their execution executed themselves. Then of course there was the last pass hitting the goal post and preventing OT.

We might have still won but those plays did happen and we benefited from them. That can't be discounted either.





« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 02:40:34 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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booch
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« Reply #551 on: December 13, 2019, 03:05:45 PM »

I repeat: it was 4 games. Evolution is gradual. This was not a gradual change, it was like a switch was flipped to on for a month.  Human nature reverts to longer tendencies.

One thing that comes to mind is that we got to play Fajardo coming off an injury and Evans who was a 1st year starter. For once in our play off runs we came up against oppositions with more obstacles ( injuries etc ) than we did.

Would we have seen the same schemes and results if Masoli had been healthy? We'll never know. You only get to play the teams / rosters that show up on game day.

He's still the DC that collapsed during several games during the season resulting in our 3rd place finish in 2019 and other memorable losses before.

Hard not to get swept up in the " what have you done for us lately " when " lately " was extremely successful. OTOH looking at the longer sample can't be ignored either.

Perhaps more of the earlier failures were due to roster issues beyond his control. The late season changes with Alexander, Taylor and Maston seemed to come together at the right time.

Regardless I never felt MOS would make a change. Winning the Grey Cup just made it easier to not make a change IMO. I expect Hall will be back.

EDIT: I might add that the defense in the WDF gave up 456 yards which was a more typical result for Hall. There were a couple of decisive moments where the Riders fell on their own sword. In particular the 2nd and goal where their execution executed themselves. Then of course there was the last pass hitting the goal post and preventing OT.

We might have still won but those plays did happen and we benefited from them. That can't be discounted either.







It was started later in season when Hall was away..was perfected in play-offs...wasn't 4 games by any means. Once Alexander was moved and Taylor was inserted we were able to play more man, combos of cover 2 with mixture of man, or dropping Biggie off and having essentially 2 softies in coverage, and our Blitzing was better wit Maston.

When Jones was brought in in final game, and 3 play-off games it completed things and allowed us even more man to man work...Just because you didn't see us utilize press coverage much didn't mean our overall coverages didn't change...we made a huge switch in what we did over last 7..8 games...and gave up yards....so what...how many TD's did we give up??....
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theaardvark
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« Reply #552 on: December 13, 2019, 03:14:21 PM »

I guess we will see who the OC will be soon enough.  If it is Buck, I can see Nichols / Streveler back.  McGuire hiding on the IR.  But Collaros might have made an impression... Buck needs horses to succeed, not loyalty.  If he makes sure that is his focus, we might see a GC roster repeat...  not that Nichols doesn't bleed Blue and Gold, and if WFC decides that they want to extend Collaros/Streveler, I am sure Nichols will find a nice home, with a nice pacheck in Ottawa with Lapo and Dom Davis...
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dd
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« Reply #553 on: December 13, 2019, 03:26:39 PM »

I can?t believe we just won the Grey cup of people are calling for the head of the guy who designed the defence that won us the cup?!? Unreal.  Guarantee you the mike Oshea that I know doesn?t make a change a DC. We ll be getting a new OC and I m not sure Buck is a slam dunk for that . We ll see what MOS does but I m thinking he likes guys who are experienced at the position not a newbie to it. There was a reason Lapo and Richie got their jobs in the first place.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #554 on: December 13, 2019, 03:38:02 PM »

It was started later in season when Hall was away..was perfected in play-offs...wasn't 4 games by any means. Once Alexander was moved and Taylor was inserted we were able to play more man, combos of cover 2 with mixture of man, or dropping Biggie off and having essentially 2 softies in coverage, and our Blitzing was better wit Maston.

When Jones was brought in in final game, and 3 play-off games it completed things and allowed us even more man to man work...Just because you didn't see us utilize press coverage much didn't mean our overall coverages didn't change...we made a huge switch in what we did over last 7..8 games...and gave up yards....so what...how many TD's did we give up??....

Are you totally going to ignore what I said about the WDF? Yes we didn't give up many TD's but not all of that was due to the defense. Our offense dominated TOP and field position in the WSF and Grey Cup.

Giving up yardage is a R. Hall trait. It doesn't always work out and the proof of that is his career history. Giving up yardage often loses TOP and field position for the offense. Not always but often.

Oct 19: 37 - 33 in favor of Calgary. BLM 66.7% completion,  337 yards and 3 TD's
Oct 25: 29-28 in favor of Winnipeg. BLM  72.1!% completion, 350 yards and 4 TD's

That's 7 passing TD's given up in the last 2 regular season games. FOUR in the last game of the year with a 1 point victory for the Bombers.

So I don't buy all of your comments about how much more or how much sooner the " evolution " started. R. Hall has been around a long time. I give him credit for the final result of 2019 but I have doubts about the longer term evolution you suggest.





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