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Author Topic: Nichols or Collaros  (Read 44026 times)
TecnoGenius
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« Reply #465 on: December 04, 2019, 08:02:11 AM »

I don't think there's any reason to believe Mark Kilam will be a better HC than Claybrooks was, DeVone sort of shattered the myth that the Stamps are a magical organization, he wasn't and may never be ready for a HC position again.

Oh no, quite the opposite!  Claybrooks proved CGY is a magical organization!  But it did prove that the magic pixie dust disappears as soon as you leave CGY.

Nearly everyone said Claybrooks was the best DC when in CGY (not me, I knew it was just the pixie dust).  Now all those same people think Claybrooks is hot garbage; or at best would be a good DC (not HC) somewhere.  I think crooked-hat-man would be a mediocre DC anywhere, or he could crawl back to CGY and be a league-leader again.  It's that pixie dust, man.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 11:44:02 AM by TecnoGenius » Logged

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GCn19
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« Reply #466 on: December 04, 2019, 11:32:17 AM »

If by pixie dust you mean SMS circumvention then I agree. Jones and Murphy took lots of heat in Sask for cheating...that was just a smidge of what they learned in Calgary.
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #467 on: December 04, 2019, 02:21:24 PM »

Claybrooks is an excellent DC. It's not pixie dust. He was in over his head trying to make the transition from DC to HC. It happens to lots of coordinators. We've got 2 ex HC's on our staff who are way better coordinators than they are HC's.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #468 on: December 04, 2019, 03:09:18 PM »

I am not sure about The Pixie Dust, lol. However I always felt that Claybrooks was dealt a bad hand, and he wasn't ready to lead a rebuild. However I think as a DC, he is as good as any of the DC's in the CFL.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 06:11:24 PM by Pigskin » Logged
GCn19
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« Reply #469 on: December 04, 2019, 03:21:49 PM »

Claybrooks is an excellent DC. It's not pixie dust. He was in over his head trying to make the transition from DC to HC. It happens to lots of coordinators. We've got 2 ex HC's on our staff who are way better coordinators than they are HC's.

Very true. I do think that Calgary cheated for a great portion of the last 15 or so years but Claybrooks is a very good DC. HC...not so much. The two jobs are night and day though.
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Blue In Edmonton
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« Reply #470 on: December 04, 2019, 03:36:30 PM »

There's a lot of factors at play. Hervey handed Claybrooks a pretty lousy hand, but told him that he had the best card in the deck. Maybe, just maybe Mike Reilly isn't as great as his hype would have everyone believe. He's missed the playoffs in consecutive years. In the last four years, a team quarterbacked by Matt Nichols has finished higher in the standings than a team with Mike Reilly. Personally, I'm glad our debate is Nichols or Collaros. I'd take either of those guys. (I'd also take Claybrooks as DC if Hall retires)
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GCn19
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« Reply #471 on: December 04, 2019, 03:42:34 PM »

There's a lot of factors at play. Hervey handed Claybrooks a pretty lousy hand, but told him that he had the best card in the deck. Maybe, just maybe Mike Reilly isn't as great as his hype would have everyone believe. He's missed the playoffs in consecutive years. In the last four years, a team quarterbacked by Matt Nichols has finished higher in the standings than a team with Mike Reilly. Personally, I'm glad our debate is Nichols or Collaros. I'd take either of those guys. (I'd also take Claybrooks as DC if Hall retires)

Mike Reilly has played on teams with lousy defences and this year an atrocious OL for the past couple of years. QBs can win you championships but only if there is a decent team around them.
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Blue In Edmonton
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« Reply #472 on: December 04, 2019, 03:50:32 PM »

Mike Reilly has played on teams with lousy defences and this year an atrocious OL for the past couple of years. QBs can win you championships but only if there is a decent team around them.

As I said, lots of factors.
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blue_gold_84
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« Reply #473 on: December 04, 2019, 03:51:59 PM »

There's a lot of factors at play. Hervey handed Claybrooks a pretty lousy hand, but told him that he had the best card in the deck. Maybe, just maybe Mike Reilly isn't as great as his hype would have everyone believe. He's missed the playoffs in consecutive years. In the last four years, a team quarterbacked by Matt Nichols has finished higher in the standings than a team with Mike Reilly. Personally, I'm glad our debate is Nichols or Collaros. I'd take either of those guys. (I'd also take Claybrooks as DC if Hall retires)

I'd take Reilly on the Bombers in a heartbeat. Could you imagine what he'd be able to do with Harris and the O-line here? It's his exorbitant salary that's the problem, as Hervey's no doubt learned. You can't build a well balanced roster with that kind of money on the books.

The 2018 Eskimos and the 2019 Lions missed the playoff in spite of him and his production. He's posted passer ratings of 99.2 and 96.0 over the last two seasons, indicating he's more than done his part. He's just not getting the help around, which speaks to an overall team issue more than anything. Mike Reilly has the numbers and the accolades to back up his worth as a pivot in this league.

I agree on Claybrooks being given a crap hand. One year is not enough time to assess HC ability, IMO. He's one hell of a defensive coach and I'd welcome him here if Hall were to retire.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 03:53:48 PM by blue_gold_84 » Logged

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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #474 on: December 04, 2019, 04:39:40 PM »

I'd take Reilly on the Bombers in a heartbeat. Could you imagine what he'd be able to do with Harris and the O-line here? It's his exorbitant salary that's the problem, as Hervey's no doubt learned. You can't build a well balanced roster with that kind of money on the books.

The 2018 Eskimos and the 2019 Lions missed the playoff in spite of him and his production. He's posted passer ratings of 99.2 and 96.0 over the last two seasons, indicating he's more than done his part. He's just not getting the help around, which speaks to an overall team issue more than anything. Mike Reilly has the numbers and the accolades to back up his worth as a pivot in this league.

I agree on Claybrooks being given a crap hand. One year is not enough time to assess HC ability, IMO. He's one hell of a defensive coach and I'd welcome him here if Hall were to retire.

Nobody forced that hand on Claybrooks, he applied for and accepted the Lion's HC job presumably on his own belief he was ready to step up and lead a team, he probably should have realized his "easy-going style" wasn't going to cut it as a HC beforehand.

Here is a summary of Hevery's explanation for his firing.  Hard to disagree.


"We failed as a team," he said. "We failed on the field, we failed off the field. It's our job to make sure we fix it."

Two factors weighed heavily in deciding Claybrooks fate.

On the marketing side, the Lions would have trouble selling tickets next year if Claybrooks was still on the sideline wearing his hat at a slightly twisted angle.

"We have to look at the organization as a whole," said Hervey. "There's a business to this as well. If we're not winning everything else becomes part of it."

On the football side, Hervey was frustrated by a lack of structure in the Lions dressing room. Claybrooks is a big man, with a big personality who maybe didn't always enforce discipline and hold players accountable.

"Structure is extremely important," said Hervey. "Accountability is high on my list of priorities and a level of discipline must be there."

As a CFL veteran, Hervey said "it doesn't take long for players to take advantage if a coach doesn't apply the rules. If there is no consequence for a player being one minute late for a meeting today, he may be three minutes late the next day and bring a cell phone into the room with him."

"It's how the players respond to the coach," said Hervey. "It's how the players respond to the environment and the culture being set."

"You start to realize there were things there that needed to be looked at. Here we are today with the decision made."

When Claybrooks spoke to the media Monday during the Lions dressing room cleanout he acknowledged some situations might have been handled better.

"You can?t let any detail go, whether it's a violation of dress code or something like that," he said. "Because . . . if you allow those things to go, those are the things that creep in when it's a pivotal point in a situation on the field. It's just little things like that, that we've got to explore and we've got to look at and we've got to fix."

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/11/06/morris-lions-one-done-claybrooks-search-new-coach-begins/
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 04:48:34 PM by Throw Long Bannatyne » Logged
GCn19
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« Reply #475 on: December 04, 2019, 04:42:24 PM »

There was lots of noise about how good the BC Lions were going to be after they signed Reilly but they failed to fix the two main reasons they were last the year before. Defence and OL were arguably worse than in 2018, and that's what sunk them that year. I get what Hervey was doing, a team needs an elite QB, but it was unfair for anyone to call BC anything other than what it was this year....year one of a rebuild. Claybrooks paid because Hervey would not acknowledge that he was rebuilding.
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #476 on: December 04, 2019, 05:59:18 PM »

There was lots of noise about how good the BC Lions were going to be after they signed Reilly but they failed to fix the two main reasons they were last the year before. Defence and OL were arguably worse than in 2018, and that's what sunk them that year. I get what Hervey was doing, a team needs an elite QB, but it was unfair for anyone to call BC anything other than what it was this year....year one of a rebuild. Claybrooks paid because Hervey would not acknowledge that he was rebuilding.

Member when we were sad that BC paid Chungh a gazillion bucks and we thought our OL was going to go to shiza? I member.
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Blue In Edmonton
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« Reply #477 on: December 04, 2019, 06:05:58 PM »

I'd take Reilly on the Bombers in a heartbeat. Could you imagine what he'd be able to do with Harris and the O-line here? It's his exorbitant salary that's the problem, as Hervey's no doubt learned. You can't build a well balanced roster with that kind of money on the books.

The 2018 Eskimos and the 2019 Lions missed the playoff in spite of him and his production. He's posted passer ratings of 99.2 and 96.0 over the last two seasons, indicating he's more than done his part. He's just not getting the help around, which speaks to an overall team issue more than anything. Mike Reilly has the numbers and the accolades to back up his worth as a pivot in this league.

I agree on Claybrooks being given a crap hand. One year is not enough time to assess HC ability, IMO. He's one hell of a defensive coach and I'd welcome him here if Hall were to retire.

I actually wouldn't take Reilly here in a heartbeat. His salary skews the SMS and prevents teams from having a deep roster. On our team with everything else being the same, he'd be incredible, but that wouldn't be so as there wouldn't be the salary space to keep together a deep team like we have.
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Pigskin
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« Reply #478 on: December 04, 2019, 06:16:38 PM »

I would also take Reilly in a heartbeat, but not at his current salary. Both Calgary and BC suffered in other areas because of their expensive QB's. If you want to win a championship take your slice of the pie, if you are just looking for a big pay day take the whole pie. I think guy's like Biggie, Ah33, Demski, Jefferson, Nichols all understand this.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #479 on: December 04, 2019, 06:55:35 PM »

What if the Bombers release Collaros early, see if he wants to stay, or if Pinball really wants him.  Proactively start the dominoes falling. 

If the Argos sign him, that leaves Maosli/Evans (one of them, they both wont be back in Ham), Nichols, Arbuckle available for the two positions left, WPG and OTT. 

Does our bargaining position get better when we are one of 2 teams courting 3 QBs, or when we are one of 3 courting 4?
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