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Author Topic: Nichols or Collaros  (Read 44276 times)
Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #150 on: October 30, 2019, 01:21:31 AM »


 Sometimes it is more about when you move the ball. Not the numbers. Streveler did squat, late, with the game on the line. Could not hit a receiver. And yeah, he was banged up, but he was in there. That is another thread. Collaros has had one game and we should not get too excited. But, if you are comparing these two games specifically, Collaros delivered in the clutch. Strev did not.

In addition Collaros did not sacrifice his health accumulating those stats, Streveler absolutely did.  As many of us have said multiple times, what Streveler is leaving on the field is not sustainable, he may put in a Herculean effort one week and steal a victory but the following week he is physically incapable of performing.  That's A-OK if it happens to be the G.C. game, but it's not ideal if he is the designated starter and there are many games to follow.

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pjrocksmb
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« Reply #151 on: October 30, 2019, 01:28:21 AM »

We're giving up a draft pick anyway. I'd rather give up a first round pick and have something to show for it than a third round pick and have nothing. Either way at least make him an offer. As much as I like Nichols an injury to his throwing shoulder isn't good.
#1 draft pick is more valuable then you are letting on
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Tiger
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« Reply #152 on: October 30, 2019, 01:57:10 AM »

Collaros is going where he can play and be paid.  He is a professional athlete. That said it is one game. 

If offers are equal in Toronto and will he choose a chance to win and be protected by a good oline or family home? It will be interesting
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Tiger
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« Reply #153 on: October 30, 2019, 03:22:16 AM »

bottom line wherever it is the starter I think we need 2 starter type QB options as starter. MaGuire I think could be a great number 2
You and I are going to be in the minority here but I agree with you. McGuire has shown that he can throw the ball downfield, Streveler has not. Unfortunately I don't think that he will be given a real chance to show what he can do.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #154 on: October 30, 2019, 03:38:49 AM »


 Sometimes it is more about when you move the ball. Not the numbers. Streveler did squat, late, with the game on the line. Could not hit a receiver. And yeah, he was banged up, but he was in there. That is another thread. Collaros has had one game and we should not get too excited. But, if you are comparing these two games specifically, Collaros delivered in the clutch. Strev did not.


1) if our defense would have held the Stamps to only 28 points like they did last week or, if they would have just kept the Stamps from scoring in the 4th quarter like they did in the last game, or just limited the Stamps to a field goal in the 4th we wouldn't be having this conversation...

2) it's not like the Bombers mounted a drive that allowed them to actually take the lead in the 4th quarter of that game... oh wait, they actually did... only to have the defense give up another touchdown to the Stamps in the very next drive, a 75 yard drive to boot...

3) up until that point in the game, when we took the lead back in the 4th, the Bombers had only punted the ball twice and had scored on 6 of their first 9 possessions... on the road no less...

4) did you know that through that weekend there had been 72 games played this season and that there were only 2 other times in those 72 games that a team scored 33 points and lost... one being our own epic melt down against Montreal, and the other being when Ottawa beat Sask 44-41 in week 2, but Ottawa allowed the Riders to score 2 touchdowns in the last 5 minutes of that game while they tried to coast out in what they thought was garbage time...

5) different game situations in each game at the end, 2 weeks ago we were down by 4 in the 4th and needed a touchdown to come back for the win, last week we were only down 2 and a field goal was all that was needed... we get the ball on our 46 yd line and only needed 15 to 20 yards to be within Medlock's range for a game winning field goal... the last 2 times that the Bombers got the ball it required them to sustain a drive of either 80 or 77 yards to get a win as their starting field position for those last 2 drives were the W30 and W33... again, on the road... and with a QB that was obviously hurt...

6) it wasn't like the Bombers couldn't sustain a drive in the prior meeting with the Stamps, we won the TOP for the game overall as well as the second half 15:22 vs. 14:38 while scoring points twice...

7) in our last meeting the Bombers got to play in the friendly confines of IG Field, a place where they had a win-loss record of 7-1 prior to the game... on the flip side, the previous game was a road game where the Bombers had proven to be much less successful and a road win-loss record of 3-5...

8. and lastly, I didn't realize that 'passing yards' were more valuable, or gave you more points than 'rushing yards'... because for a guy that couldn't do squat, or move the ball, he had more total yards in the game than the guy that cured cancer while playing...

In addition Collaros did not sacrifice his health accumulating those stats, Streveler absolutely did.  As many of us have said multiple times, what Streveler is leaving on the field is not sustainable, he may put in a Herculean effort one week and steal a victory but the following week he is physically incapable of performing.  That's A-OK if it happens to be the G.C. game, but it's not ideal if he is the designated starter and there are many games to follow.


last time I checked Streveler didn't have the luxury to call plays, that was Lapo's decision to have him run the ball... but if I recall correctly, on one of those running plays he did take the ball out on the sidelines instead of turning up field and the other running plays weren't really conducive to trying a hook slide or get to the sidelines... but hey, I could be wrong, I am getting old and forgetful...

but more so, he shouldn't have been in the game at all at that point... but again, that's on the coaching staff, not him... but more over, the offense had played well enough and the Bombers had scored enough points that they should have won that game...
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GOLDMEMBER
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« Reply #155 on: October 30, 2019, 03:55:35 AM »

Hey maybe we can get Kevin Glenn next year and start another 65 page thread?
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BLUEBOMBER
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« Reply #156 on: October 30, 2019, 05:56:30 AM »

Yep...  just one game with Collaros..  this thread shouldn't exist.  Nichols is still the leader of the team.  He will be back next season knowing how stubborn OShea and LaPo both are.  I would hope we can get better receivers though.  That's a serious weak spot that we have now.  I hope Collaros will stick around as a backup but given how desperate Ottawa is, I think they may throw money at Collaros if he does well in the playoffs.
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GCn19
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« Reply #157 on: October 30, 2019, 10:16:18 AM »

You and I are going to be in the minority here but I agree with you. McGuire has shown that he can throw the ball downfield, Streveler has not. Unfortunately I don't think that he will be given a real chance to show what he can do.

Has McGuire completed a pass beyond 5 yards?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 11:14:21 AM by GCn19 » Logged

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Blue In BC
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« Reply #158 on: October 30, 2019, 01:31:35 PM »

no he had a great pre season and camp as well. Look at Evans Look at Arbuckle Look at Jar Jar Do. Their is always a chance. Maybe the scouts found a goody? That?s all I am saying. Frick people.

Lots of QB's look good in pre -season. They're playing against rosters comprised of mostly rookies.

Such a small sample size is meaningless. Many ex Bomber candidates have looked good in pre season and briefly in regular season play.

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TBURGESS
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« Reply #159 on: October 30, 2019, 01:57:23 PM »

#1 draft pick is more valuable then you are letting on
Is it tho?

It's not like it used to be. We are no longer start some of the worst NI talent. In fact, we're near the top of the league when it comes to NI talent. If we want to keep Collaros, and I for one don't, losing the first round pick wouldn't hurt us as badly as it would hurt most teams.
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #160 on: October 30, 2019, 02:05:41 PM »

Is it tho?

It's not like it used to be. We are no longer start some of the worst NI talent. In fact, we're near the top of the league when it comes to NI talent. If we want to keep Collaros, and I for one don't, losing the first round pick wouldn't hurt us as badly as it would hurt most teams.

How many of our #1s actually have made the team?  Simonise - gone, Ekakitie - gone, Gray - on the team after a few years, Goosen - made the team and retired, Chungh - made the team, Mulumba - never signed with the team, Pencer - gone, Muamba - made the team.   That's a 50% success rate over recent history, of which four are still in the league, and only one still plays for the Bombers.
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VictorRomano
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« Reply #161 on: October 30, 2019, 02:08:47 PM »

#1 draft pick is more valuable then you are letting on

Not if it's used to select busts like Faith Ekakite....
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Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #162 on: October 30, 2019, 02:21:03 PM »

Is it tho?

It's not like it used to be. We are no longer start some of the worst NI talent. In fact, we're near the top of the league when it comes to NI talent. If we want to keep Collaros, and I for one don't, losing the first round pick wouldn't hurt us as badly as it would hurt most teams.

Yea - it depends. I'd keep Collaros if he wants to stick around on an incentive based deal as a top paid back up. He's probably worth a #1 pick if we can sign him for a few years under those circumstances. If not, no. I'm sure he wants to start and probably someone will pay him. Ottawa and Toronto are probably both desperate.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 03:17:03 PM by Sir Blue and Gold » Logged
longtimeblue
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« Reply #163 on: October 30, 2019, 02:59:26 PM »


1) if our defense would have held the Stamps to only 28 points like they did last week or, if they would have just kept the Stamps from scoring in the 4th quarter like they did in the last game, or just limited the Stamps to a field goal in the 4th we wouldn't be having this conversation...

2) it's not like the Bombers mounted a drive that allowed them to actually take the lead in the 4th quarter of that game... oh wait, they actually did... only to have the defense give up another touchdown to the Stamps in the very next drive, a 75 yard drive to boot...

3) up until that point in the game, when we took the lead back in the 4th, the Bombers had only punted the ball twice and had scored on 6 of their first 9 possessions... on the road no less...

4) did you know that through that weekend there had been 72 games played this season and that there were only 2 other times in those 72 games that a team scored 33 points and lost... one being our own epic melt down against Montreal, and the other being when Ottawa beat Sask 44-41 in week 2, but Ottawa allowed the Riders to score 2 touchdowns in the last 5 minutes of that game while they tried to coast out in what they thought was garbage time...

5) different game situations in each game at the end, 2 weeks ago we were down by 4 in the 4th and needed a touchdown to come back for the win, last week we were only down 2 and a field goal was all that was needed... we get the ball on our 46 yd line and only needed 15 to 20 yards to be within Medlock's range for a game winning field goal... the last 2 times that the Bombers got the ball it required them to sustain a drive of either 80 or 77 yards to get a win as their starting field position for those last 2 drives were the W30 and W33... again, on the road... and with a QB that was obviously hurt...

6) it wasn't like the Bombers couldn't sustain a drive in the prior meeting with the Stamps, we won the TOP for the game overall as well as the second half 15:22 vs. 14:38 while scoring points twice...

7) in our last meeting the Bombers got to play in the friendly confines of IG Field, a place where they had a win-loss record of 7-1 prior to the game... on the flip side, the previous game was a road game where the Bombers had proven to be much less successful and a road win-loss record of 3-5...

8. and lastly, I didn't realize that 'passing yards' were more valuable, or gave you more points than 'rushing yards'... because for a guy that couldn't do squat, or move the ball, he had more total yards in the game than the guy that cured cancer while playing...

last time I checked Streveler didn't have the luxury to call plays, that was Lapo's decision to have him run the ball... but if I recall correctly, on one of those running plays he did take the ball out on the sidelines instead of turning up field and the other running plays weren't really conducive to trying a hook slide or get to the sidelines... but hey, I could be wrong, I am getting old and forgetful...

but more so, he shouldn't have been in the game at all at that point... but again, that's on the coaching staff, not him... but more over, the offense had played well enough and the Bombers had scored enough points that they should have won that game...

 How about the points that the D gave us? If not for that, it is over at the half. You had a fumble for a TD and and a pick almost in the red zone that led to a quick score. The Strev offence scored 6 points in the whole second half. 6 points. Last 2 possessions a turnover on downs and an interception. My point is this. You are comparing these 2 games and throwing in ifs and buts. What I said was that with the game on the line, Collaros delivered. Streveler did not. Pretty straightforward.

 I am not saying Collaros is the answer to all our prayers. It was one game. And he ended it just fine. I enjoyed it.
  I will add this. There is a reason that our OC leans heavily toward running plays for Streveler. The guy is not an accurate passer nor does he read well. It is risk and reward.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 03:12:25 PM by longtimeblue » Logged
Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #164 on: October 30, 2019, 03:44:56 PM »




last time I checked Streveler didn't have the luxury to call plays, that was Lapo's decision to have him run the ball... but if I recall correctly, on one of those running plays he did take the ball out on the sidelines instead of turning up field and the other running plays weren't really conducive to trying a hook slide or get to the sidelines... but hey, I could be wrong, I am getting old and forgetful...

but more so, he shouldn't have been in the game at all at that point... but again, that's on the coaching staff, not him... but more over, the offense had played well enough and the Bombers had scored enough points that they should have won that game...

I'm not sure why you're tying yourself in knots defending Streveler, I believe you've already stated that you don't wish to see him start in the playoffs or be given the starters job next season....most of us agree, so what is the point of carrying on with your argument?  I'm pretty sure everybody on this board likes Streveler and wants to keep him around as the #2 QB next season, giving him more time to develop and grow into the passing game, it's in our best interest to see what he can become....but he's clearly not ready yet.  Sorry but your argument supporting him as "he's just as good as ______", is built upon a lot of, "what if's" and "it's the other guy's fault" to be plausible.

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