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Author Topic: Nichols or Collaros  (Read 49764 times)
blue girl
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« Reply #120 on: October 29, 2019, 02:55:08 AM »

We're giving up a draft pick anyway. I'd rather give up a first round pick and have something to show for it than a third round pick and have nothing. Either way at least make him an offer. As much as I like Nichols an injury to his throwing shoulder isn't good.
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #121 on: October 29, 2019, 03:29:48 AM »

Collaros will not be here. He wants to be in the east. Where he and his family live. As far as him being a risky signing, yeah, Nichols is a little less of a risk, but he is starting to show some fragility. Steady Matty. Yawn. And the drought will go on.

 Of course Collaros will start in the playoffs and his level of play will dictate everything as far as his FA status. It is wait and see what happens. If you gave me a choice between a healthy Nichols and Collaros in a playoff game, I am going with Collaros.
Yep....Collaros and it's not even close!!
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #122 on: October 29, 2019, 04:12:36 AM »

Streveler has the tools but cannot read D and make good calls.  We will see if he develops.  Michael Bishop was an extreme example of great tools and no ability to read. 

If Arbuckle leaves Calgary, Streveler would be smart to go there if the opportunity presented itself.  Learn the game from three of the best, and he would compliment BLM well in terms of difference in playing styles.

That is all contingent on the Stamps having the space, and not already having an ELC guy waiting in the wings whose already better than 2/3 of the QBs in the league that no one has heard of yet.....
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theaardvark
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« Reply #123 on: October 29, 2019, 04:31:51 AM »

If Collaros decides to take a co-pilot seat, who will occasionally get into a game and takes second fiddle pay... I can see a team taking a chance on him... including us.  He could take a Tate role...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #124 on: October 29, 2019, 04:55:19 AM »

Yep....Collaros and it's not even close!!

are you sure?  maybe it isn't by personal preference, but, but let's see how the 2 games compared to each other... I'll list the stats for each of the last 2 games that we played against Calgary and will identify them by QB1A and QB1B...

QB1A                                    QB1B
 315     total offensive yards     324
28:44    time of possession     31:58
  20           first downs              21
    4          2 and outs                2
    6              punts                   3
   -1       turn over margin         0
 7/75      penalties #/yds        5/75
    1             sacks                    1
    1        sacks allowed             1
  W40   avg start yd line         W41

RECEPTIONS BY TARGET DEPTH
      QB1A                 QB1B
       15      0-5 yds      13
        3      6-10 yds      2
        2     11-15 yds     2
        0     16-20 yds     0
        1     21-25 yds     1
        1      26+ yds       0
      2/4   20+ Comp    1/2
       36       LONG        34

so, which QB won their game? QB1A or QB1B?  QB1A is Collaros, he scored fewer pts and won than QB1B while Streveler bested or was equal to QB1A in the majority of the stats for each individual game...  winning fixes everything... I guess...

SCORING DRIVES IN YARDS:
Collaros: 73, 55, 51, 38, and 25 yards
Streveler: 70, 52, 52, 41, 30, and 25 yards
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 05:11:00 AM by 66 Chevelle » Logged

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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #125 on: October 29, 2019, 05:32:20 AM »

We're giving up a draft pick anyway. I'd rather give up a first round pick and have something to show for it than a third round pick and have nothing. Either way at least make him an offer. As much as I like Nichols an injury to his throwing shoulder isn't good.

They would have to give the Argos a first round pick in addition to the 3rd round pick they already owe them if the Bombers extend Collaros for 2020.  That's a heavy price to pay.
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #126 on: October 29, 2019, 05:41:11 AM »

Chevy.....firstly my response was regarding making a hypothetical choice between a healthy Collaros or Nichols in a playoff game....I chose Collaros because he was the difference between winning and losing our last game.   He doesn't automatically chuck the ball in the stands when he loses contact with his 1/2 primary receivers and is constantly looking downfield for open receivers.   He is far more mobile than Nicholls as well and displayed his quick feet with that scramble and pass to Adams deep in the EZ.   Nichols would likely have been A)  sacked or B) chucked the ball in the stands.    In all fairness to Nicholls his deep passing throws were much better this season before he was hurt and his efficiency rating was top amongst starting QBs.  
Thing is, Collaros only came to us 2 weeks ago and had a few practices with the #1 team.   He also survived some big hits and I cringed every time....but then I do every time Nichols gets hit too.    The fans who saw Collaros were treated to a QB the likes they haven't seen in a loooong time.   He lifted both the team and the fans up at a time when we desperately needed a strong finish and Collaros made good on his opportunity.   After all he is trying to prove to everyone that he still has IT and that factor alone could be a huge asset for the Bombers in the playoffs.....plus he has more playoff experience than either Nichols or Streveler.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #127 on: October 29, 2019, 08:01:19 AM »

Chevy.....firstly my response was regarding making a hypothetical choice between a healthy Collaros or Nichols in a playoff game....I chose Collaros because he was the difference between winning and losing our last game.   He doesn't automatically chuck the ball in the stands when he loses contact with his 1/2 primary receivers and is constantly looking downfield for open receivers.   He is far more mobile than Nicholls as well and displayed his quick feet with that scramble and pass to Adams deep in the EZ.   Nichols would likely have been A)  sacked or B) chucked the ball in the stands.    In all fairness to Nicholls his deep passing throws were much better this season before he was hurt and his efficiency rating was top amongst starting QBs.  
Thing is, Collaros only came to us 2 weeks ago and had a few practices with the #1 team.   He also survived some big hits and I cringed every time....but then I do every time Nichols gets hit too.    The fans who saw Collaros were treated to a QB the likes they haven't seen in a loooong time.   He lifted both the team and the fans up at a time when we desperately needed a strong finish and Collaros made good on his opportunity.   After all he is trying to prove to everyone that he still has IT and that factor alone could be a huge asset for the Bombers in the playoffs.....plus he has more playoff experience than either Nichols or Streveler.

Lincoln, my friend, my apologies... I read the part of the comment you were replying to and stopped after "Collaros will start the playoffs" and thought that was what you were referring to, lol... plus, you mentioned the word 'close' and that gave me a perfect lead into the stats from the 2 Calgary games... lol

but I agree 100% with your comments above and the logic as to why you would pick a healthy Collaros over a healthy Nichols, I would as well... with a different OC I'd pick a healthy Streveler over a healthy Nichols too...but, between the 3, and with our current OC, I'd have to go with Collaros as well...  different OC... Streveler

I was a little shocked after this last game when I was looking at the box score... after all, it's not often that you can lose in total yards, time of possession, penalties taken, the turn over battle, and have more '2 and outs' (if you count the 1 play, INT drive) than your opponent and still walk away with the win... but we did... somehow, lol...  the only meaningful category that we beat the Stamps this week was the single most important one, points scored... 

so, that got me looking at the previous game and I started comparing the Bombers games from one to the other and noticed that in addition to scoring more points the week before that almost every stat was equal or better than this game...  you would think that we would have won them both if we would have won the last game... big difference was Special Teams and the defense came up with a stop when we needed one to preserve the win...  much like the LDC, Streveler gave the defense a come from behind score in the 4th and the lead, all they had to do was keep it...

but you can sure see Lapo's influence in the play calling... the number of throws by depth are almost identical... no wonder our opponents are having more success against us, we're way to predictable...

but anyway, again, my apologies, I didn't read the other comment close enough and went with an assumption...
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bomb squad
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« Reply #128 on: October 29, 2019, 08:39:26 AM »

are you sure?  maybe it isn't by personal preference, but, but let's see how the 2 games compared to each other... I'll list the stats for each of the last 2 games that we played against Calgary and will identify them by QB1A and QB1B...

QB1A                                    QB1B
 315     total offensive yards     324
28:44    time of possession     31:58
  20           first downs              21
    4          2 and outs                2
    6              punts                   3
   -1       turn over margin         0
 7/75      penalties #/yds        5/75
    1             sacks                    1
    1        sacks allowed             1
  W40   avg start yd line         W41

RECEPTIONS BY TARGET DEPTH
      QB1A                 QB1B
       15      0-5 yds      13
        3      6-10 yds      2
        2     11-15 yds     2
        0     16-20 yds     0
        1     21-25 yds     1
        1      26+ yds       0
      2/4   20+ Comp    1/2
       36       LONG        34

so, which QB won their game? QB1A or QB1B?  QB1A is Collaros, he scored fewer pts and won than QB1B while Streveler bested or was equal to QB1A in the majority of the stats for each individual game...  winning fixes everything... I guess...

SCORING DRIVES IN YARDS:
Collaros: 73, 55, 51, 38, and 25 yards
Streveler: 70, 52, 52, 41, 30, and 25 yards

Not to argue your against your main point overall (which you made well with your stats), but I do have to quibble with what I bolded. Perhaps you inadvertently counted the defensive touchdown scored in the game in Calgary? By my math, Collaros actually scored slightly more. 3 tds and 2 fgs = 27 for Collaros; 2 tds and 4 fg's = 26 for Streveler.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 12:43:07 PM by bomb squad » Logged
GCn19
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« Reply #129 on: October 29, 2019, 11:12:12 AM »

If Arbuckle leaves Calgary, Streveler would be smart to go there if the opportunity presented itself.  Learn the game from three of the best, and he would compliment BLM well in terms of difference in playing styles.

That is all contingent on the Stamps having the space, and not already having an ELC guy waiting in the wings whose already better than 2/3 of the QBs in the league that no one has heard of yet.....

Calgary cannot afford Strev with BLM's contract.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #130 on: October 29, 2019, 12:06:14 PM »

Not to argue your against your main point overall (which you made well with your stats), I do have to quibble with what I bolded. Perhaps you inadvertently counted the defensive touchdown scored in the game in Calgary? By my math, Collaros actually scored slightly more. 3 tds and 2 fgs = 27 for Collaros; 2 tds and 4 fg's = 26 for Streveler.

I should have done a better job of articulating my thoughts in my closing comments because you are right in regards to the math... however, this wasn't meant to specifically be a comparison of the QBs as a whole as there are obviously factors outside of their control that effects the outcome, both positive and negative... such as, Calgary didn't score as many points in the second game as they did in the first game... or, in game 2 Darvin breaks up the interception where as in game 1 he doesn't... if he does the same thing in game 1 there is a good chance we win that game as well...

it just seems that the general consensus would be that Collaros was the difference maker between the two games... however, when you look at the game within the game the numbers are strangely similar... for whatever reason the game that Collaros played looked 'prettier', maybe that was because the 'take away' for his game was what he did with his passing where as in Streveler's game it had more to do with running the ball... like the toss that Collaros made to Darvin on the scramble for the touchdown... a more exciting play therefore it makes one believe that there was a significant overall performance of the team, yet that isn't necessarily the case...

but let's say that in the first game, Calgary missed a 2 pt conversion... the Bombers win that game as well... I would have to believe that there wouldn't have been such a drastic swing in perception that one out played the other, or, influenced the game in the same manner...  hence, winning fixes everything... at the end of the day we could have  won the first game just as easily as we lost it... and on the other hand, we could have lost the second game just as easily as we won it... neither QB played that much better or that much poorer than the other...

clear as mud, right? lol... 
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BlueInCgy
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« Reply #131 on: October 29, 2019, 01:19:54 PM »

Calgary cannot afford Strev with BLM's contract.

Not disagreeing with you on that, which is why I said if the opportunity were to present itself.  If they don't have the money, they can't have the conversation.

That being said, I suspect Strev's going rate for next year has been reduced somewhat over what would have been anticipated had he only been called in for spot duty and looked really good in his design play packages.  That, and Fajardo, Adams, and Evans have all passed him on the list of "the next big thing".
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #132 on: October 29, 2019, 01:32:31 PM »

Lincoln, my friend, my apologies... I read the part of the comment you were replying to and stopped after "Collaros will start the playoffs" and thought that was what you were referring to, lol... plus, you mentioned the word 'close' and that gave me a perfect lead into the stats from the 2 Calgary games... lol

but I agree 100% with your comments above and the logic as to why you would pick a healthy Collaros over a healthy Nichols, I would as well... with a different OC I'd pick a healthy Streveler over a healthy Nichols too...but, between the 3, and with our current OC, I'd have to go with Collaros as well...  different OC... Streveler

I was a little shocked after this last game when I was looking at the box score... after all, it's not often that you can lose in total yards, time of possession, penalties taken, the turn over battle, and have more '2 and outs' (if you count the 1 play, INT drive) than your opponent and still walk away with the win... but we did... somehow, lol...  the only meaningful category that we beat the Stamps this week was the single most important one, points scored... 

so, that got me looking at the previous game and I started comparing the Bombers games from one to the other and noticed that in addition to scoring more points the week before that almost every stat was equal or better than this game...  you would think that we would have won them both if we would have won the last game... big difference was Special Teams and the defense came up with a stop when we needed one to preserve the win...  much like the LDC, Streveler gave the defense a come from behind score in the 4th and the lead, all they had to do was keep it...

but you can sure see Lapo's influence in the play calling... the number of throws by depth are almost identical... no wonder our opponents are having more success against us, we're way to predictable...

but anyway, again, my apologies, I didn't read the other comment close enough and went with an assumption...
No worries Chevy....Janarion Grant factored into this game as well with two big returns....one on the missed convert and return for two points was actually a 3 point swing and his return on a missed FG to centre field was also a factor.   Also Medlock was better than Paredes and he had some big punts as well.   On the whole our special teams were better.   Yes when BLM marches the entire length of the field seemingly at will you wonder how we came out ahead....but our special teams gave us just enough of an edge to come out ahead.
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theaardvark
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« Reply #133 on: October 29, 2019, 02:24:09 PM »

Is there a timeframe for re-signing Collaros for us to lose the first rounder?  Does it have to be before the end of the year, before FA hits, or forever and ever?

Injury / concussion worries aside, he is a good QB, but I think in FA we might be able to do better.  Past both him and Nichols, there are many other options out there...  the key will be choosing which one is ready to make the next step... Tor seems set with McBeth, MTL with Adams, HAM will shake loose one of Masoli or Evans, OTT will be shopping, like us.  Edmonton, SSK, CGY and BC are all set as well, only looking for cheap #2s.

So, Ott and us shopping with a lot of potential FA's out there...   with some XFL competition...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #134 on: October 29, 2019, 03:24:43 PM »

No worries Chevy....Janarion Grant factored into this game as well with two big returns....one on the missed convert and return for two points was actually a 3 point swing and his return on a missed FG to centre field was also a factor.   Also Medlock was better than Paredes and he had some big punts as well.   On the whole our special teams were better.   Yes when BLM marches the entire length of the field seemingly at will you wonder how we came out ahead....but our special teams gave us just enough of an edge to come out ahead.

you are so right about the special teams, they were the key to our win in that last game... I was waiting on someone to bring up the turn overs, how we had more in the first game and we actually scored with one on the defense....

the special team play in game two was the equivalent to turn overs by our opponent...  Calgary attempts a field goal from the W40... he misses, and Grant returns it 61 yards setting us up at mid field... we gained 15 yards from their original LOS on that play... no different than say a blocked field goal attempt or fumble... we scored on that following drive...

and like you said, their own kicking team cost them that game... besides the obvious, Grant returning the missed PAT for a 2 pt score for the Bombers, there was another significant kicking event that killed Calgary... Calgary are on their own 9 yard line, Maver punts a bad 32 yd punt followed up by a stupid 15 yd no yards penalty that essentially places the Bombers at Calgary's 25... the very next play on that short field ends up being a touchdown for the Bombers....

often over looked and under valued but that was one of the major factors in that win... thanks for setting that up for me, Lincoln... lol...  Grin
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 03:26:52 PM by 66 Chevelle » Logged

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