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Author Topic: 3rd place and another tough road trip  (Read 3205 times)
3rdand1.5
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« on: October 08, 2019, 05:39:09 PM »

-6 years ago we were a dumpster fire
-Our current regime took them from the dumpster 6 years ago to a good team
-Fans, players etc. had hope these past couple seasons as we assembled a top level roster
-Likely we are looking at 3rd place finish this year and a tough two game road trip (again) through Cal. and Sask.to the Cup
-Streveler while having potential is either injured or for another reason struggling and we do not have a veteran back-up ready to help (management choice they knew Nichols was done for some time)
-The current regime has put a total of 1 playoff win
-Issues that we all saw 4years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, 1 year ago still keep popping up


It's tough the 29 year drought is not this teams fault, players or coaches. The current management team took what was probably at the time the worst team roster wise in the league over and turned them into a very respectable, good team this past few seasons, and on paper the best it's ever looked this year. Our drafting has been among the best league wide and some games we look like we can not be beat....but we can't get over the hump narrowly missing each of the last few seasons and setting ourselves up this year to just narrowly miss the Cup again. Sure we play the games for a reason and 3rd place is not set in stone yet, but the odds are pretty strong.


Why, why is it that we are such a good team, that keeps finding a way to beat itself and come-up just short again and again, can we keep status quo if we are 1 and done again? If not where do you draw the line on the cuts and who is on the chopping block?

It's very tough as fans, and I imagine for veteran players to keep getting so close...something needs to change doesn't it...?
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Sec223
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2019, 05:50:04 PM »

Has Walters ever fired a coach ? Might have to soon. If MOS doesn't do something with Hall then he must go. Dominoes. Are you listening Mr Miller ?
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blue_or_die
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2019, 06:06:08 PM »

I feel your pain. As I said in another thread, if we are one and done in the playoffs (i.e. no playoff wins), then I think that's pretty much it for MOS & Co. If it's a literal repeat of last year (win in Regina and then defeated in Calgary) I can live with that. I understand that's pretty defeatist but hey, I'm a Bomber fan- I can't expect a championship or anything. That would be asking way too much. Remember, we have to be patient, right?

Has Walters ever fired a coach ? Might have to soon. If MOS doesn't do something with Hall then he must go. Dominoes. Are you listening Mr Miller ?

MOS fired Etcheverry after one year. I think Bellefeuille left on his own terms before LaPo got brought in but I can't remember. I basically have blocked out 2014 and 2015 (and 2012 and 2013 while we are at it).
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107th Grey Cup champs and WE ARE LIT
Sir Blue and Gold
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2019, 06:06:15 PM »

Has Walters ever fired a coach ? Might have to soon. If MOS doesn't do something with Hall then he must go. Dominoes. Are you listening Mr Miller ?

He won't have to fire him. Just not renegotiate a contract.
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blue girl
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2019, 08:15:47 PM »

If we finish in third and or are one and done then something definitely has to be done. Not only has this regime only had one playoff win but they've only had one home playoff game and this is hurting the bottom line.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 09:01:41 PM »

with the level of talent that Walter's has given this coaching team, there shouldn't be the inconsistency that we are seeing and have been seeing over the last 3 seasons... it's time for a change regardless...
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just because you can doesn't mean you should...
PurpleReign
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 09:05:39 PM »

We are not going to win anything with this coaching staff. We have the players but they are not put into a position to flourish.  The schemes are horrible.
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3rdand1.5
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2019, 09:20:12 PM »

with the level of talent that Walter's has given this coaching team, there shouldn't be the inconsistency that we are seeing and have been seeing over the last 3 seasons... it's time for a change regardless...

I am feeling the same, the roster this year is very solid, we also showed great depth, and are even getting high level play from guys picked in the 7th round of the Cdn. draft, but it's not translating to the results it should be.

Yet I struggle with "what changes" we were so bad when this group took over and the good work they did can't be overlooked or forgotten about, but something has to change if we get the same result again (an early exit in the playoffs) we can't accept that any longer.....how deep do we chop?
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2019, 09:26:26 PM »

I am feeling the same, the roster this year is very solid, we also showed great depth, and are even getting high level play from guys picked in the 7th round of the Cdn. draft, but it's not translating to the results it should be.

Yet I struggle with "what changes" we were so bad when this group took over and the good work they did can't be overlooked or forgotten about, but something has to change if we get the same result again (an early exit in the playoffs) we can't accept that any longer.....how deep do we chop?

it's really not hard to get good/great players and have them produce average results... it's real coaching talent to take average/good players and get exceptional results...  in a sport that winning is everything, being good or average isn't enough... nature of the beast...
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the paw
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2019, 10:14:10 PM »

Y?all need to get a grip.  Until last game, we were in the thick of the hunt for first, despite a long term injury to our starting QB and a 2 game suspension to an all star RB. 

Over 5 years, the team has gone from joke to a strong performer.  Our offence with Nichols is among the best in the league in terms of points scored, rushing, and  passing efficiency.  Our defence has, despite having a MLB on the limp, appeared dominant for stretches.  Not perfect, but very good.

The team is one of the best in terms of special team creativity, o?Shea Is very solid on challenges, and we are one of the most disciplined teams in the league, taking few penalties.  Despite popular mythology, the team has shipped out non-performing veterans like Bowman and Matthews, and benched Hecht when it became necessary. 

Despite all this, when we hit a little stretch of adversity, all you can see here is wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Augmented by trotting out the favorite scapegoats and pronouncing who needs to get fired simply because the team has failed to meet the unrealistic expectations of an internet fanbase with all the ability to deal with disappointment of a toddler who missed his nap.

Miller and Walters would be nuts to can O Shea.  That?s not even the question.  The question is whether we will be able to hang on to him.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2019, 10:29:04 PM »

when average play becomes acceptable, it also becomes the standard.. so, good luck with that...


good coaching doesn't field teams that one week looks like a world beater and then the next like it couldn't be a high school team, repeatedly... doesn't it bother you in the least bit to see teams that are a tire fire one year and then winning playoff games the next, all the while we put up a great regular season record only to be one and done?

yeah, better than it use to be but is that enough?
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just because you can doesn't mean you should...
66 Chevelle
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2019, 11:22:51 PM »

also, it's almost impossible to have a 18 game schedule, one where you play everybody at least twice, and think that you could go undefeated... not going to happen... so you expect to lose some game... some days the other guy just has your number and it isn't your day...  some days you just have a tough match up and the other guy just beats ya... or the day that you just don't play your best and you lose...

all of that is to be expected if you're being realistic... what makes it hard to accept though, is when you give back games that you had won... all of a sudden these tough losses are more painful because you know that you're letting it slip away by giving back games that were yours...

now I'm not talking about hard fought games where you're trying to get out with a 6 pt win then somebody fumbles the ball with little time left and the other guy puts together a drive to win... I'm talking about going in to the 4th quarter with a 20 pt lead and going home a loser...

if we had won the ones that we should have, we're sitting in first place with a 2 game lead with 3 to go... not a bad place to be... however, that's not the case... somebody is to blame... people say we don't know what O'Shea says to the team privately, behind closed doors... I say we do... he tells us each week with product he puts on the field... seeing the team make the same mistakes over and over tells me regardless of what he may be saying, it's isn't the right thing...
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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2019, 11:46:42 PM »

also, it's almost impossible to have a 18 game schedule, one where you play everybody at least twice, and think that you could go undefeated... not going to happen... so you expect to lose some game... some days the other guy just has your number and it isn't your day...  some days you just have a tough match up and the other guy just beats ya... or the day that you just don't play your best and you lose...

all of that is to be expected if you're being realistic... what makes it hard to accept though, is when you give back games that you had won... all of a sudden these tough losses are more painful because you know that you're letting it slip away by giving back games that were yours...

now I'm not talking about hard fought games where you're trying to get out with a 6 pt win then somebody fumbles the ball with little time left and the other guy puts together a drive to win... I'm talking about going in to the 4th quarter with a 20 pt lead and going home a loser...

if we had won the ones that we should have, we're sitting in first place with a 2 game lead with 3 to go... not a bad place to be... however, that's not the case... somebody is to blame... people say we don't know what O'Shea says to the team privately, behind closed doors... I say we do... he tells us each week with product he puts on the field... seeing the team make the same mistakes over and over tells me regardless of what he may be saying, it's isn't the right thing...
I've also heard MOS say when asked about what he needs to tell his players...."I don't need to talk them, they're pros"!   
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2019, 12:30:00 AM »

Y?all need to get a grip.  Until last game, we were in the thick of the hunt for first, despite a long term injury to our starting QB and a 2 game suspension to an all star RB. 

Over 5 years, the team has gone from joke to a strong performer.  Our offence with Nichols is among the best in the league in terms of points scored, rushing, and  passing efficiency.  Our defence has, despite having a MLB on the limp, appeared dominant for stretches.  Not perfect, but very good.

The team is one of the best in terms of special team creativity, o?Shea Is very solid on challenges, and we are one of the most disciplined teams in the league, taking few penalties.  Despite popular mythology, the team has shipped out non-performing veterans like Bowman and Matthews, and benched Hecht when it became necessary. 

Despite all this, when we hit a little stretch of adversity, all you can see here is wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Augmented by trotting out the favorite scapegoats and pronouncing who needs to get fired simply because the team has failed to meet the unrealistic expectations of an internet fanbase with all the ability to deal with disappointment of a toddler who missed his nap.

Miller and Walters would be nuts to can O Shea.  That?s not even the question.  The question is whether we will be able to hang on to him.

5 star post Paw.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2019, 10:01:40 AM »

Despite all this, when we hit a little stretch of adversity, all you can see here is wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Augmented by trotting out the favorite scapegoats and pronouncing who needs to get fired simply because the team has failed to meet the unrealistic expectations of an internet fanbase with all the ability to deal with disappointment of a toddler who missed his nap.

Miller and Walters would be nuts to can O Shea.  That?s not even the question.  The question is whether we will be able to hang on to him.

Love it paw!  And no one can accuse you of being a blue-goggler like Aards & I.  I hope all the sayers of nay here look at a pragmatic paw and realize he's right.

Toddlers indeed!

I too think it will be basically impossible to fire the Mafia and even Hall/Lapo.  MOS and Lapo have the get-out-of-Nichols-jail free card.  If Walters/Miller take heat for keeping the status quo, they just need to put on a presser where they read paw's statement.  Boom.  Who can argue with that?

good coaching doesn't field teams that one week looks like a world beater and then the next like it couldn't be a high school team, repeatedly... doesn't it bother you in the least bit to see teams that are a tire fire one year and then winning playoff games the next, all the while we put up a great regular season record only to be one and done?

You know what, each QB should get a mulligan this season.  Nichols: HAM, and Strev: HAM.  Besides those 2 HAM games, which games weren't close?  Which games weren't we winning or staying close going into the 4th?  How many games did we lose by 3 or less?

Take out the 2 mulligans and a whack ton of the losses are really bad luck, complete breakdowns that end within 3, or ones where the O just couldn't get it done in the 4th and the D also faltered.  There lots of games we really did lose by just inches on a few plays.

Do you blow up a team and Mafia/OC/DC that are literally so close in all but 2 losses?  That's the type of team you keep tweaking.  And the game plans that are losing those ones at the end: same thing -- tweak them.  Solve the problems while not creating new ones.  Now, if we are just always regressing and repeating mistakes from 1 or 2 or 3 years ago, ok then you may require more than "tweaks" because that means the tweaks aren't working.  But I'm not convinced that's the case.

I'll finish with one thought that's been bugging me lately.  I'd argue we were the better team in MTL.  I'd argue it's harder to go up so much in 1.8 quarters than it is to come back so much in 2.2.  We dominated them when the slate was clean at 0-0.  We beat them legitimately with our normal 2-down business-as-usual game plan and execution.

What did MTL do?  They only started scoring when it was looking like they were doomed to lose.  They were in desperation mode from halftime onward.  They were practically in 3 down mode.  They didn't play their normal game plan.  They threw it away, along with the run game, and just threw caution to the wind.  It's easier to get yards and scores when not only are you not playing conservatively, but you have gone into full on berzerker mode.  And they did it against our O and D that obviously went into full "coming back is impossible" mode based on historical football numbers that fully back that up.

But MTL did have something we lacked, and it's a key component, perhaps, to winning this season: fire and morale.  We seem to have very little fire at all times.  And morale we seem to lose extremely easily and when we do, we seem completely unable to ever get it back.

If our team ever got fire, and ever got their morale mojo back (think the "MTL Miracle" (in WPG's favor) game and subsequent games), we should be basically unstoppable, maybe even with Strev, and certainly with Nichols!
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bigbuff33
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2019, 12:05:03 PM »

66 Chevelle nailed it...

When average becomes acceptable...

I don't understand this mentality...this regime has had 6 years...Ottawa won a Grey Cup...Toronto won a Grey Cup...Calgary keeps winning...

But some fans seem content with average...

If your goal is average...and you meet your goal, then you will be average...

How about expectations of greatness....is that too much to ask?Huh?
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TBURGESS
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2019, 01:33:13 PM »

If we're one and done in the playoffs then MOS needs to go. Management can spin it as he wanted to go back to Toronto so we didn't really have any chance of keeping him. Hall can retire. PLAP will likely get a HC interview or two and might be gone too.

That mean a new HC, DC and OC, but it doesn't mean blowing the whole thing up. The team will remain largely the same under new coaching although we need to sign a QB or two. Similar team with better coaching might just be what the Dr. ordered to take us from middle of the road to playoff winners.
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Sec227
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2019, 01:53:49 PM »

66 Chevelle nailed it...

When average becomes acceptable...

I don't understand this mentality...this regime has had 6 years...Ottawa won a Grey Cup...Toronto won a Grey Cup...Calgary keeps winning...

But some fans seem content with average...

If your goal is average...and you meet your goal, then you will be average...

How about expectations of greatness....is that too much to ask?Huh?


I think this what everyone need to concentrate on. We as fans, make excuses for being "just" ok. And maybe it's the long drought of zero cups. But really injury this or injury that. All teams have them. Hell, I want a great team. I don't need the excuses.

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bigbuff33
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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2019, 02:12:06 PM »

Well said Section 227
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bluebeard
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2019, 06:14:23 PM »

For me, there is only one thing that this team needs and that is a good QB.  Need to score and keep the D on the side lines rested up.

Look at what Montreal and Regina have done this season with rookie HCs.  Get Masolli in here for next season and I think that you will see a different team.  Have been wrong many times before but this is the way that I see it.
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2019, 07:02:41 PM »

66 Chevelle nailed it...

When average becomes acceptable...

I don't understand this mentality...this regime has had 6 years...Ottawa won a Grey Cup...Toronto won a Grey Cup...Calgary keeps winning...

But some fans seem content with average...

If your goal is average...and you meet your goal, then you will be average...

How about expectations of greatness....is that too much to ask?Huh?

Greatness is not achieved in a single bound, it is a gradual climb to the top, much like the road O'Shea/Walters have built over the last 3 years. They held 1st place in the West for most of this season, that is a major achievement and I believe they would still be there if not for Nichols injury and there recent tumble.  The core of this team is powerful, I'm all in on the current management continuing their climb towards greatness next season.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 07:04:22 PM by Throw Long Bannatyne » Logged
blue girl
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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2019, 07:15:17 PM »

I'm tired of all the excuses. Yes we lost our starting QB but we're not the only team that has. In 6 years we've had one playoff win and 1 home playoff game. How many more years does this regime get?
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Pigskin
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« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2019, 07:29:19 PM »

Wow, bad day??? The season isn't over.
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BBRT
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If winning isn't everything,why do they keep score


« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2019, 07:35:35 PM »

Greatness is not achieved in a single bound, it is a gradual climb to the top, much like the road O'Shea/Walters have built over the last 3 years. They held 1st place in the West for most of this season, that is a major achievement and I believe they would still be there if not for Nichols injury and there recent tumble.  The core of this team is powerful, I'm all in on the current management continuing their climb towards greatness next season.

While I normally agree with most of your posts - on this one I am going to have to make an exception. I believe they held 1st in the West just due to playing inferior teams in most cases. Other teams lose their starting QB and seem to do very well thank you - not so the Bombers. And this appears to always be an "If, And or But" team - always something to use as an excuse for under performing at least IMHO. I firmly believe MOS and company have had sufficient time to build toward greatness regardless of who is playing etc. They have had their chance, now time to think about moving on with others steering the Bombers, at least IMHO.
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blue girl
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2019, 07:46:03 PM »

I just don't see the Bombers finishing higher than third. Maybe we can finish in second but either way we are going to have to go to either Calgary or Regina and I don't see us beating both of those teams on the road Hopefully I'm wrong. And if we do bring back O'Shea how long do we sign him for?
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Pigskin
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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2019, 07:47:59 PM »

And what if we do and go to the Grey Cup. What then?
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swansong
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« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2019, 07:53:24 PM »

Over 5 years, the team has gone from joke to a strong performer.

In fact if the trend we're experiencing continues we would be in no better shape after 6 years than we were after 3.

Our offence with Nichols is among the best in the league in terms of points scored, rushing, and  passing efficiency

I'd argue that is thanks to Harris...not Nichols.

Our defence has, despite having a MLB on the limp, appeared dominant for stretches.  Not perfect, but very good.

And in spite of much better talent, still collapsing at critical times.

The team is one of the best in terms of special team creativity

Perhaps I've forgotten but what evidence of this is there for 2019?

o?Shea Is very solid on challenges

When he decides to make them. He missed fairly obvious opportunities for spearing/helmet to helmet challenges last game and decided to keep the flag in his pocket.

Despite popular mythology, the team has shipped out non-performing veterans like Bowman and Matthews, and benched Hecht when it became necessary.

Matthews had a good game against us in Montreal. Perhaps the under performance is a result of abysmal play calling by a OC with a history of abysmal play calling.

Despite all this, when we hit a little stretch of adversity, all you can see here is wailing and gnashing of teeth

6 years of playoff/championship futility is hardly a "little stretch of adversity"...but people see/focus on what they want.

Augmented by trotting out the favorite scapegoats

Perhaps the reason they're the "favourite scapegoats" is because they continue to show they are the weak links in the organization

pronouncing who needs to get fired simply because the team has failed to meet the unrealistic expectations

If, after almost a full 6 seasons, it's "unrealistic" to expect a team that can show consistency/dominance against the best teams in the league...and dare I say an actual Cup appearance...then I guess mediocrity is good enough for some

internet fanbase with all the ability to deal with disappointment of a toddler who missed his nap.

Cheap shot for a fan base that has continued to support this team through almost 3 frickin decades of disappointment. A fan base that pays the bills. That lives and dies with this team year after year.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 08:54:47 PM by swansong » Logged
TBURGESS
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« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2019, 08:02:17 PM »

And what if we do and go to the Grey Cup. What then?
If we win, have a parade, then offer all the coaches new contracts. If we lose, just offer the coaches new contracts.
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pjrocksmb
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This is the CFL- support our league- Go Canada!


« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2019, 08:19:25 PM »

Y?all need to get a grip.  Until last game, we were in the thick of the hunt for first, despite a long term injury to our starting QB and a 2 game suspension to an all star RB. 

Over 5 years, the team has gone from joke to a strong performer.  Our offence with Nichols is among the best in the league in terms of points scored, rushing, and  passing efficiency.  Our defence has, despite having a MLB on the limp, appeared dominant for stretches.  Not perfect, but very good.

The team is one of the best in terms of special team creativity, o?Shea Is very solid on challenges, and we are one of the most disciplined teams in the league, taking few penalties.  Despite popular mythology, the team has shipped out non-performing veterans like Bowman and Matthews, and benched Hecht when it became necessary. 

Despite all this, when we hit a little stretch of adversity, all you can see here is wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Augmented by trotting out the favorite scapegoats and pronouncing who needs to get fired simply because the team has failed to meet the unrealistic expectations of an internet fanbase with all the ability to deal with disappointment of a toddler who missed his nap.

Miller and Walters would be nuts to can O Shea.  That?s not even the question.  The question is whether we will be able to hang on to him.

post of the year, agree with all, slow and steady the Paw's got it right, it warms my heart those that share the sediment
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 08:21:46 PM by pjrocksmb » Logged

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blue girl
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« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2019, 08:40:31 PM »

post of the year, agree with all, slow and steady the Paw's got it right, it warms my heart those that share the sediment
Slow snails move at a faster pace.
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pjrocksmb
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This is the CFL- support our league- Go Canada!


« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2019, 09:05:34 PM »

Slow snails move at a faster pace.
I'm more a sloth myself LOL
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Tiger
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« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2019, 03:50:02 AM »

The notion that average becomes acceptable has merit, But not with a Wade Miller led a blue Bomber team. 


Miller has good and bad points like all people bit he hates losing, has worked to see the club succeeds and is the exact opposite to a wilting daisy.  While he may not publicly air his concerns I certain would not like to be on the receiving end behind closed doors. While some fans may adopt this notion I don?t think the club has.

That said we lost our starting QB and our 2 is not as good as the starter or other 2s. In the league.  We we on the road toGC before the injury. Now it is unlikely.  It sucks but that how it happens sometimes.
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