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Author Topic: After The Game: Bombers & Riders 10/5/2019  (Read 4639 times)
GOLDMEMBER
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R.I.P. BLUE BONGER


« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2019, 09:58:02 PM »

I as disappointed and mad as nay fans. I do not think we can get it done this year.
Lapo is as poor at his job as Hall in my books now.
OSH is a great guy but needs to show he has some urgency to the fans.
OSH and Knuckles will just blah blah blah it agin tomorrow on there stupid little show.
Their is time to turn this around but what would the reasoning behind that be? Their is not!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 12:22:21 AM by ModAdmin » Logged

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blue girl
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« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2019, 10:19:28 PM »

I as disappointed and mad as nay fans. I do not think we can get it done this year.
Lapo is as poor at his job as Hall in my books now.
OSH is a great guy but needs to show he has some urgency to the fans.
OSH and Knuckles will just blah blah blah it agin tomorrow on there stupid little show.
Their is time to turn this around but what would the reasoning behind that be? Their is not!
Just to let you or anyone who cares know the Coach's Show has been moved to Tuesday this week for the leadership debate.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 12:22:54 AM by ModAdmin » Logged
Pigskin
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« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2019, 03:09:17 AM »

That would be the day MOS discusses the coaching on this team on CJOB.
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« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2019, 06:48:21 AM »

He was no where near making that play. He was to far off of the receiver.

Just tells you how little confidence the defense had in the ability of the offense to score a major.  When they start thinking pick six is our only hope and taking reckless gambles... put a fork in it.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2019, 09:26:42 AM »

Just tells you how little confidence the defense had in the ability of the offense to score a major.  When they start thinking pick six is our only hope and taking reckless gambles... put a fork in it.

Nailed it.  D or ST had to step up and get the 6.  Totally fine with the D thinking that.  The O that game single-handedly tanked our #1 in the redzone stat line.  Was it 4 redzone trips and 3 INTs and a FG?  Thankfully my brain is already forgetting the details... getting hazy... self preservation...
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2019, 10:47:10 AM »

Just rewatched the last O possession we still had a chance to win with.  2 plays stood out:

1. 4Q7:34 1st & 10 at SSK47 BRILLIANT PLAY DESIGN/CALL!  SSK brings 7 to try to stuff our run, we have 6 man protection, Harris handoff and he rushes just outside the right tackle as our OL crushes them left, and Demski covers the right-side outside-the-tackles defender they brought up all game to contain Strev.  Harris is free in space with blockers ahead.  He's already past the DL and all LBs.  Only the DBs left.  He heads to Petermann on a guy, and decides to juke right to take advantage and get more space as a DB was coming down left, but still a ways off.  But the SSK D guy sheds Petermann, probably knowing he's it for outside help, and tackles Harris for only a 7 yard gain.

I thought while watching live that AH made the wrong choice and should have just ploughed straight ahead.  I still think he gets 8-10 easy if he goes north.  I think he misses the Petermann guy if he does that, and If he sheds #11 with a spin or something, he is off to the races with further blocking already downfield.

But the play design and call are both Lapo masterpieces.  SSK was sending 2 defenders outside our tackles to flank Strev on every single non-obvious-passing down (and many passing downs too!).  Lapo spotted and adjusted and used it against them by flanking and containing the DL and creating a "C gap" which is massively wide open when SSK does this.  It's the perfect counter to D's always playing contain on Strev.  Brilliant.  Bet we do a ton more of this this season!

And maybe if Woli was in, that block is maintained and AH's juke right also works out and we get huge yardage.

2) 4Q5:49 2nd & 8 at SSK34: the INT that seals our fate.  I just wanted to note that we went true max-pro 5OL + 2RB to hold of 7 pass rushers.  This was Lapo taking a page out of HAM and CGY saying "we're absolutely throwing this ball and you can't stop us".  I actually like the aggressiveness and doing the 7 max-pro we basically never do.  The protection holds and Strev has probably even more time than he ended up taking.

But Strev does his abbreviated throwing motion again and the ball comes up short, as always.  Demski has to throttle down and it lets the SSK defender get in front and high-point it.  It's a nice looking ball, but Strev needs to get more muscle into it and get another 5 yards of air so it goes right to the rail back in the EZ, not 5 yards in-rail at the 2 yard line.  I wonder if the wind caught that one at all for a slight excuse... was the wind blowing camera left to right?

And what the heck is Lawler doing running towards Demski allowing his 2 defenders to get close to Demski too!  Lawler should have been at the post drawing coverage.  Dumb.  Demski had gotten man coverage, with just 1 man to beat, and if Lawler had run a better route and Strev had the mechanics to throw it deeper, that's a guaranteed TD with Demski having the hottest deep-ball hands for us this year.

So, two inspired Lapo X/O's, one with half-good execution, the other with quarter-good execution.  It turns out Lapo was adjusting, and trying very hard to win.  It's just slight mistakes in execution that cost us a possible tie at that point.

Maybe the O isn't all that bad... maybe we can win some surprise games still and even stand tall in the playoffs!  Little things, better execution, inches and inches.
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2019, 03:22:31 PM »

it shouldn't be surprising, yet it is at times... this place is crazy...  the mood swings, from we're the best in the world to we couldn't beat the football team from the school of the blind... and then the caveat, the short or selective memory... lol... but I love it, I really do... otherwise I wouldn't keep coming back...

after a few days to process this last game I have come to the conclusion that it wasn't that bad of a loss... actually it was a pretty good and even game... a defensive fight for sure... a game where there was only one touchdown scored between the two teams, and it was a bit of a garbage touchdown at that late in the game... when you go back and look at the box score you see a pretty even day...

total yards: Bombers: 370  -  Riders: 399
TOP: Bombers: 30:16  -  Riders: 29:44
rushing yards: Bombers: 116  -  Riders: 99
passing yards: Bombers: 254  - Riders: 300
punts: Bombers:  8  -  Riders: 9
penalties (#/yds): Bombers: 6/47  -  Riders: 9/88
sacks: Bombers: 4  -  Riders: 3
pass knock downs: Bombers: 3  -  Riders: 4

but the biggie, the one that made the difference, was turnovers..

turnovers: Bombers: 4  -  Riders: 0

the Bombers gave the ball up 4 times, 2 INTs (the costly ones in this game), 1 fumble, and 1 on downs (late in the game)...  and due to the INTs we now have a QB that a) can't throw, and b) can't win...

sure, those INTs were costly and probably are the difference in the game... but, those throws weren't bad throws, ones that were off the mark resulting in a interception... these were actually very good throws, just ones that shouldn't have been thrown... Streveler was just trying to do too much and the defenders were able to step in front of the receiver and make the INT... it's funny, a half a second more and both of those balls are TDs instead of INTs....

but anyway, due to the lose we are now a team that will never win again... and if we do, there is no way we can beat SSK or Calgary... however, if we take a trip back just a few short weeks ago you may recall these 3 games...

Game 1:  the LDC... what a game... late in the 4th quarter and we're down 16-10... we get the ball and Streveler leads the team down the field on a 63 yard, 6 minute long drive that ends in a touchdown and we take the lead after the Medlock convert 17 to 10 in a game that we rarely win... this was a SSK home game, tough game, rowdy crowd, and history... yet Streveler shows poise and composed a drive when we needed it the most to put the Bombers in the lead with 3:00 left in the game... unfortunately, the defense couldn't contain the SSK offense and let them drive into field goal range and make the walk off FG for the win... for all accounts though, we went into their house and had the game in our hands...

Game 2: the Banjo Bowl... what can we say about this game... the Streveler led Bombers flexed their muscle mightily and had their way with the Riders beating them sounding in all phases of the game to the tune of 35-10... Streveler went 15/21, 71.4%, 186 yds, 2 TD, and a long of 58 yards...  he also carried the ball 11 times for an additional 70 yards and 2 TDs on the ground... Augustine played a significant role as well and chipped in 75 receiving yards and 63 rushing yards...  a total team effort at home and made the Riders look really out classed all day long... I believe it was this week that the league named Streveler the top offensive performer of the week...

Game 3: Montreal... once again the Bombers seemed to pick up right where they left off with the Riders the week before... Streveler and the offense scored TDs on their first 4 possessions of the game! when was the last time the bombers done that? The Bombers had the Alouettes beat down taking a 20 point lead into the 4th quarter... however, one of the most epic let downs in CFL history, the Alouettes send the Bombers home with a 37-38 loss and a bruised ego...  however, hardly a loss you could pin on Streveler, he went 19/22, 86.4%, 180 yds, 1 TD, and 1 INT... he also chipped in another 84 yards on 9 carries and 3 more TDs...

Sure, we lost this week and we were beat by a good team that day, but, if not for the walk off FG we would have won the season series against the Riders 2-1 and held home field over them... again, an epic let down in the Montreal game, a surging Montreal team, a team that just beat the Stampeders... yeah, a team that we had beat, and beat badly, just beat the team that we have 2 games coming up with...

so things seem bad but moving forward it's just as conceviable that we beat Calgary, maybe beat them twice... who knows... but we may lose 1 or both of them as well, but regardless we can play with and beat either of these teams in the playoffs we play like we can... the same Streveler that lost this week is the same guy that beat the Riders handily in the Banjo Bowl, and a lot worse than they beat us this week too I'll add... Calgary got beat by a surging Montreal team, but a Montreal team that we showed we had more than enough horses on offense to beat as well...

Streveler didn't play well this week and those 2 interceptions kept us from winning that game... but he was sacked 4 times as well and the line play was hit or miss all day long... Harris had an 'ok' game... I believe he had 60 some yards rushing on 11 carries and 4 yards on 4 catches... not the same output that we got from Johnny in the previous meetings with SSK... just saying...

some believe that we may have won this last game with Nichols leading the team, after all, he has shown success running the exact same offense with the exact same plays... which I offer is a big part of the problem... Lapo and this ultra predictable offensive scheme full of short passes, runs up the gut, and untimely bad play calls... the was one play on a 2nd and short and all 5 of our receivers were 3 or 4 yards from the LOS and in the screen shot... all 5 in basically the same place...

Nichols has won a lot of game in this offense, but he has also lost quite a few as well... there is a stark similarity between Nichols and Streveler in the way they can look like heros and superstars one week and then look like they shouldn't be on the field the next... do we honestly believe that they both just get lucky this week, and then maybe again 3 weeks later, etc., and are basically bad QBs in reality?  I don't think so... I honestly believe it's Lapo and this offensive scheme/game plan he draws up for both of them...

some, as well as myself, mentioned earlier this year that Streveler actually looked like he regressed this year from last... some believe he is continuing down that path... think about this, when was Nichols' best year with the Bombers? without a doubt it was 2017... since then he too seems to be regressing... not nearly the QB he was that year... did he too all of sudden forget how to throw the ball down field or lead a 4th quarter comeback?  I don't think so... also, this year there was a 3 game period where Lapo actually did something different with the game plan, he got more creative and gave Nichols plays that kept the defense guessing... we even started going down field regularly and with success... Lapo actually came up with plays that created large throwing windows and opportunities for YAC... and then just as magically as it came, it went away... back to the ultra safe, ultra conservative play calls and with it came losses...

we are constantly complaining about our receivers... yet it's hard to believe that they all suck, that they can't get open or can't get yards after the catch... maybe it the routes and plays they are given...

during that 3 game period Nichols showed that he could be a star for this team, one that could actually take us into the playoffs with a real shot at winning it all... then Lapo turtles and goes back to the dink and dunk... Nichols returns to earth and looks like an average or below average QB and we have little hope of winning it all... Nichols can only run the plays he's given... when given a better game plan we can rock it... given the predictable dink and dunk with the same 4 plays over and over again and we're losers, as well as Nichols... it's Lapo that's killing the offense and costing us games... not Nichols... not Streveler...

if you really think about it, Streveler looks exactly like Nichols (except for the running)... looks great one minute and lost the next... both seem to moving backwards in this offense instead of getting better or maintain a high level of play... you never see any of our receiver wide open like you do others on other teams... quite the opposite... not only are they covered, they are usually swarmed by 1 or 2 additional defenders when they do catch the ball... thats because it seems like our receivers are once again, all running and playing in the same part of the field... now we do this and then ask Harris to run the ball up the middle all night, it's not hard to figure out how to beat us... but it's not the QBs and it's not the receivers...

now couple hand cuffing the offense with intermittent good play by the defense, and let's not forget Medlock missing PAT attempts and field goals and all of a sudden we're the bottom of the barrel... however, there are times when we are world beaters and look unstoppable... this isn't normal... players aren't good and capable one minute and forget how to play the next...

we need better coaching... if we get it we can still win it all... and we can win it all with Streveler... go back and watch the highlight film from the Banjo bowl, or the Montreal game for that matter... you'll see a Streveler that can throw dimes and find open receivers down field when the O line actually provides some blocking...

it's not over... it can still go very badly or we could still win it all... we'll just have to see what hand we're dealt...
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66 Chevelle
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« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2019, 03:39:09 PM »

another Lapo offensive trait... the week before Lawler has 11 targets and 11 catches for 144 yards... he's doesn't get his second target in last weeks game until there are only 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter...

it seems like Lapo has this thing about going away from the 'hot hand' or a different play that actually works for whatever reason... you'll see us have success on a specific play or type of play in a game and you won't see it or anything like it again for the entire game... why is that?  or it's obvious that we aren't having luck running Harris straight up the middle, yet we keep doing it repeatedly...
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M.O.A.B.
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« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2019, 04:25:46 PM »

Lapo's play calling baffles me.
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TecnoGenius
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« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2019, 07:18:26 AM »

after a few days to process this last game I have come to the conclusion that it wasn't that bad of a loss... actually it was a pretty good and even game... a defensive fight for sure... a game where there was only one touchdown scored between the two teams, and it was a bit of a garbage touchdown at that late in the game... when you go back and look at the box score you see a pretty even day...

The game smelled exactly like the '18 WF @CGY.  A massively tough defensive battle where neither team gets yards easily.  The difference was that we managed to get in FG range like 5-6 times in the WF and we scored on all but 1 of them (I think).  In the SSK game we pissed away all but 2 of our FG range drives by throwing INTs or fumbling.  If we got those extra 3-4 FGs we would have won the game because Rose doesn't need to put the whole game on his shoulders for that final INT attempt!

In that way the game was the least "MOS-plan" style game we've played all year.  Our whole plan is to get in Medlock range on most drives and take the 3 and not worry about missing out on 7.  We can get aggressive for the 7 if we need it late in the 4th Q.  MOS must have been furious that Strev 3+ times screwed up our sure-thing 3 points.  Nichols knows that when you're in FG range, you get ultra-conservative and only chuck it far when the dude is wide open.  Strev obviously didn't get the memo.

Anyhow, it's another reason why I'm positive Nichols wins that game, unlike in the WF, because this year we have a legit lockdown D (at least in the SSK game) with many superstars/allstars (some yet to be crowned).

Great points on everything else.  It very well could be Lapo getting all conservative that is the difference between "good/bad Nichols" and "good/bad Strev".  It might apply to Nichols more though.  Lapo certainly wasn't being conservative on that final Strev-pick drive.  Dinking & dunking was working great at that moment, not sure why we need to chuck it for 30 yards and an INT.

another Lapo offensive trait... the week before Lawler has 11 targets and 11 catches for 144 yards... he's doesn't get his second target in last weeks game until there are only 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter...

it seems like Lapo has this thing about going away from the 'hot hand' or a different play that actually works for whatever reason... you'll see us have success on a specific play or type of play in a game and you won't see it or anything like it again for the entire game... why is that?  or it's obvious that we aren't having luck running Harris straight up the middle, yet we keep doing it repeatedly...

My gut says SSK was taking away Lawler.  First, Lawler is obviously the zone-killer of our team, kind of like Dressler.  It seemed to me that SSK was playing man a heck of a lot.  That means no zone for Lawler.

I think many teams do this and it shows up sometimes in fantasy points: they look at who the star/killer players were last week and just plan to take them out.  Ours was Harris and Lawler, so SSK took them out.

There also may an aspect of out-thinking things in Lapo: maybe he suspects our last-week star will be the D's focus and decides to use him more as a decoy.  It's probably a combination of the two factors.

But there's no doubt, like you said, that the "hot player" in WPG rotates a whole ton and almost never is the same guy 2 weeks in a row.  Just think back, each guy has had his week to light it up: Lucky, Demski, Grant, Lawler.  Only Woli and Adams have yet to have a monster game this year, but they sure did last year.

I'm not sure this is a "bad thing", however there is the aspect of "play it until they show they can stop it" that Lapo often forgets (especially with Harris).
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J5V
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« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2019, 07:54:38 AM »

All this prognostication and no one mentions the head coach. Y'know, the guy responsible for getting all these problems taken care of and ironed out. Why are we going through this nonsense 5 years into a head coach's tenure? Sorry, something terribly amiss in Bomber land when the same issues are present for 5 (almost 6) years.
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Blue In BC
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« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2019, 02:14:30 PM »

All this prognostication and no one mentions the head coach. Y'know, the guy responsible for getting all these problems taken care of and ironed out. Why are we going through this nonsense 5 years into a head coach's tenure? Sorry, something terribly amiss in Bomber land when the same issues are present for 5 (almost 6) years.

No kidding. The team has been more entertaining and competitive in recent years. We're still getting out coached at critical times.

If there is no success in the play offs then we might be in total rebuild again in 2020.

I'll define success in the playoffs as at least at WDF appearance and a competitive game. I'm not sure how much leeway I give management after losing their # 1 QB?

I suppose I could challenge why by season 6 we haven't found a # 2 QB that can pass? I like Streveler and how we used him when Nichols was healthy but he's not there yet.

We've had a rotating door at QB overall. I wonder how many QB's we've had in camp in the last 6 years.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 02:17:20 PM by Blue In BC » Logged

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Lincoln Locomotive
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« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2019, 02:58:00 PM »

Just rewatched the last O possession we still had a chance to win with.  2 plays stood out:

1. 4Q7:34 1st & 10 at SSK47 BRILLIANT PLAY DESIGN/CALL!  SSK brings 7 to try to stuff our run, we have 6 man protection, Harris handoff and he rushes just outside the right tackle as our OL crushes them left, and Demski covers the right-side outside-the-tackles defender they brought up all game to contain Strev.  Harris is free in space with blockers ahead.  He's already past the DL and all LBs.  Only the DBs left.  He heads to Petermann on a guy, and decides to juke right to take advantage and get more space as a DB was coming down left, but still a ways off.  But the SSK D guy sheds Petermann, probably knowing he's it for outside help, and tackles Harris for only a 7 yard gain.

I thought while watching live that AH made the wrong choice and should have just ploughed straight ahead.  I still think he gets 8-10 easy if he goes north.  I think he misses the Petermann guy if he does that, and If he sheds #11 with a spin or something, he is off to the races with further blocking already downfield.

But the play design and call are both Lapo masterpieces.  SSK was sending 2 defenders outside our tackles to flank Strev on every single non-obvious-passing down (and many passing downs too!).  Lapo spotted and adjusted and used it against them by flanking and containing the DL and creating a "C gap" which is massively wide open when SSK does this.  It's the perfect counter to D's always playing contain on Strev.  Brilliant.  Bet we do a ton more of this this season!

And maybe if Woli was in, that block is maintained and AH's juke right also works out and we get huge yardage.

2) 4Q5:49 2nd & 8 at SSK34: the INT that seals our fate.  I just wanted to note that we went true max-pro 5OL + 2RB to hold of 7 pass rushers.  This was Lapo taking a page out of HAM and CGY saying "we're absolutely throwing this ball and you can't stop us".  I actually like the aggressiveness and doing the 7 max-pro we basically never do.  The protection holds and Strev has probably even more time than he ended up taking.

But Strev does his abbreviated throwing motion again and the ball comes up short, as always.  Demski has to throttle down and it lets the SSK defender get in front and high-point it.  It's a nice looking ball, but Strev needs to get more muscle into it and get another 5 yards of air so it goes right to the rail back in the EZ, not 5 yards in-rail at the 2 yard line.  I wonder if the wind caught that one at all for a slight excuse... was the wind blowing camera left to right?

And what the heck is Lawler doing running towards Demski allowing his 2 defenders to get close to Demski too!  Lawler should have been at the post drawing coverage.  Dumb.  Demski had gotten man coverage, with just 1 man to beat, and if Lawler had run a better route and Strev had the mechanics to throw it deeper, that's a guaranteed TD with Demski having the hottest deep-ball hands for us this year.

So, two inspired Lapo X/O's, one with half-good execution, the other with quarter-good execution.  It turns out Lapo was adjusting, and trying very hard to win.  It's just slight mistakes in execution that cost us a possible tie at that point.

Maybe the O isn't all that bad... maybe we can win some surprise games still and even stand tall in the playoffs!  Little things, better execution, inches and inches.

Very astute analysis Tecno.....yes Streveler flicks the ball and doesn't have a follow through and most of his deep balls fall short causing the receiver to break stride.   He must fix this and I'm not sure if he can at this point in his career.....but he needs to work on this so he can beat teams with his arm when we need to come from behind for the W.   It seemed Nichols this season had greatly improved his deep balls and had 15 TD strikes to only 5 picks.   He's still tied with Adams and Fjardo for TD strikes playing 6 fewer games.   So it can happen....Streveler must work on this and his reading defences or he will be relegated to being a #2 QB for his entire career.   I'm not sure if we have good enough QB coaching in Buck for this to happen.    Maybe he should hire Ricky Ray to tutor him in the off season!?
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Throw Long Bannatyne
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« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2019, 05:02:01 PM »

Very astute analysis Tecno.....yes Streveler flicks the ball and doesn't have a follow through and most of his deep balls fall short causing the receiver to break stride.   He must fix this and I'm not sure if he can at this point in his career.....but he needs to work on this so he can beat teams with his arm when we need to come from behind for the W.   It seemed Nichols this season had greatly improved his deep balls and had 15 TD strikes to only 5 picks.   He's still tied with Adams and Fjardo for TD strikes playing 6 fewer games.   So it can happen....Streveler must work on this and his reading defences or he will be relegated to being a #2 QB for his entire career.   I'm not sure if we have good enough QB coaching in Buck for this to happen.    Maybe he should hire Ricky Ray to tutor him in the off season!?

Nichols has been tutoring him full time for almost half the season, it's not going to change his technique at this point, that was set in stone during his teen years.  I think Streveler could benefit from watching film of early Collaros and latter Masoli, both mobile QB's that use/used their feet well to extend plays but not necessarily to run downfield. One difference, both of those QB's were/are fairly nimble, not an adjective that would fit Streveler.

It's like Streveler has a "switch" in his brain, once he decides to run the "pass switch" is turned off, he tucks the ball and stops looking for open receivers downfield, focusing entirely on the best route to run and whom to run over.  The best mobile QB's are always looking down field and do not turn on the "run switch" until they cross over the line of scrimmage and fully commit. 
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:35:14 PM by Throw Long Bannatyne » Logged
Pigskin
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« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2019, 05:23:16 PM »

Now people are just making things up. Strv17 only threw 2 Int's. Also only one of the STRV17 Int's was in the red zone.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:32:12 PM by Pigskin » Logged
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